I use bold to find my posts faster since my vision is highly deteriorated.

More than arrogant, smart....

What , opinions are? Bro, please find me one person that will be using the Amarr scout FOR ITS BONUS, and i'll drop it.

I use bold to find my posts faster since my vision is highly deteriorated.

More than arrogant, smart....

What , opinions are? Bro, please find me one person that will be using the Amarr scout FOR ITS BONUS, and i'll drop it.

The amarr scout sucks.

End thread/

If your not planning on specing into the suit than all further opinions you have on it are nullified. Yes im playing that card because people like you seem to not be able to grasp how easily the Amarr stats and bonuses are copied.

all suits are have a purpose. you just have to find that purpose and use it to your advantage

1. Read my post. I said that I didn't include suit bonuses for simplicity. If I did then the stamina stats would've been much higher on the Amarr side but you conveniently ignored that. I was basing it off of 30 vs. 18 which is just about right in between rounding up and rounding down from 33% to double. Either way, you're ignoring the point that the Amarr has just better regen than even a proto assault.

I misunderstood how the passive skill worked and addressed it in an earlier post. You got me, I made a mistake. Moving on, my argument still stands. The two shield extenders would still make a great buffer, especially if it comes back in the time it takes for another suit to chase you around corners, assuming you're running and jumping out of the gun fight if need be. I don't know if you've noticed how quick TTK is, but 10 seconds to wait for your shield to even start coming back can easily lead to being picked off by another enemy or a returning Amarr scout. I don't see how you can just ignore the difference in delays/recharge just because the minmatar can tank more shield.

Feel free to double check the rest of my math, I encourage it. I'd rather be corrected than be accused of making a dishonest case for the Amarr scout. Just because I made a mistake doesn't negate everything I'm saying though. I concede that the correct shield calculation/ehp comparison makes a better case for the ehp advantage to be more significant. It's still, IMO, not the most important thing to have in a suit.

I wouldn't run a scout like a tank so you can talk about stacking complex plates on it all day but I'd much rather just rely on an SMG and sneak attacks. It's funny that you seemed to have taken this argument into a "the minmatar assault is WAY better at being a tank than a scout" when it started as a speed thing but whatever. When I can take down heavies with a toxin smg and an advanced scout suit just by jumping around/over them, I don't need 1000+ ehp. I'm not trying to brag, but it can and is being done by more than just me. This leads me to my next point about valuing jumping.

People say it's so easy to hit people that are jumping and I agree if they are further away. This is not the case when someone charges straight at you with a weapon that's meant to spray and pray as you dance around them in circles. It simply works. I use the agility to my advantage but once you're out of sprint you're just as slow as the rest. Strafing is not necessarily superior to jump shotting IMO. It puts you on an equal playing field with a suit that may have 2-3 times your ehp. What those suits can't do is jump over your head or past you, causing you to have to 180 to being firing again. I'd consider the "you can track their trajectory when they jump" argument more if it were actually true in my experiences but it's simply not.

You've ignored equipment completely. Scouts can also logi spam to an extent. Also get past many scanners. I'm going to move onto another post, I have a lot of people to respond to. Feel free to pick at my math again, but honestly the ehp was the least of my concerns considering I expected it to be much higher considering we were comparing a light to a medium suit.

So you ARE Confirming you are Biased after all!
You are NOT Speccing into it.
YOU ARE HAPPY WITH IT because is bad, your dont want it to be usable like the rest with a weak excuse like ''i dont want it to be FOTM''.



Your posts there by, are all Meaningless since you have openly admitted that you WONT use the suit and you want it to remain BAD, so that no one specs into it.

You sir , are a swine and you are not my n***a.

Look kid, LOOK at all the REST of the bonuses ,scouts,Commandos,heavy Sentinels,Assaults and Logis have.
Then Look at the Amarr SCOUT one.
YOU SERIOUSLY THINK ITS OK?
No, of course not, you know its crap,you defend the bonus just for the trolls...

You completely missed my pointGǪ Either the similar speeds are a problem or they're not. I claim they're not. You obviously think they are, otherwise you wouldn't be complaining so much about it. This leads us to two possible reasonsGǪ

1. The speed affects the playability of either suit. By this, I mean that if either suit were given a 0.05m/s buff/nerf, people would notice. This is just ridiculous and untrue. No one would notice the difference, and even if someone could, they should not be complaining about something so minuscule.

This leaves us with reason 2GǪ
2. The principle that scouts should be faster than assaults. I'm saying I'd be perfectly ok to nerd the Amarr scout to 99% of the Minmatar assault speed. If this were to happen then the second argument would be nullified and we would live in virtually the same universe where they're basically the same speed and no one can tell. But, after this nerf, no one using the 2nd argument could complain about it further.

This completely solves the problem for argument 2. If you want a noticeable difference, pick a different scout suit, or make this one faster with kin cats. You can't have everything (speed, stealth, regen, etc.). Pick what's important to you and stop complaining.

Strafe speed is good for suits that can't afford to jump past enemies. If you disagree that jumping makes you a harder target to hit close range then we are at an impasse on that subject. I understand that speed is important but the Amarr scout is still fast enough to do what scouts can do, and if they're not, they just sacrifice a low slot (easy, since they have 4) to bring them back up to other scouts.

So you ARE Confirming you are Biased after all!
You are NOT Speccing into it.
YOU ARE HAPPY WITH IT because is bad, your dont want it to be usable like the rest with a weak excuse like ''i dont want it to be FOTM''.



Your posts there by, are all Meaningless since you have openly admitted that you WONT use the suit and you want it to remain BAD, so that no one specs into it.

You sir , are a swine and you are not my n***a.

Look kid, LOOK at all the REST of the bonuses ,scouts,Commandos,heavy Sentinels,Assaults and Logis have.
Then Look at the Amarr SCOUT one.
YOU SERIOUSLY THINK ITS OK?
No, of course not, you know its crap,you defend the bonus just for the trolls...

Jera 13. See you later.

Ace, if the bonus is bad, then propose a better one.

Note: A better one doesn't necessarily mean "Faster than Minmatar Scout"

I honestly don't see a problem with it since the Amarr are notorious slowasses and the Minmatar are notorious for being speed tanked.

Different Bonuses for the amarr scout are being discussed. Please refer to my SIG.

BTW, BONUS =/= Base stats of the suit.

Just saying

Spoiler: Clipped original post to make roomGǪ

If you're going to take every chance you can to point out a mistake I've made then I may as well reference Anchorman and laugh at " Being able to move faster without sprinting in general is more useful, 100% of the time". Being able to always sprint on average makes you faster than any other suit in the sense that you can always be sprinting. They have to catch you in the 6 seconds in between every minute of spiriting to be firing at a target that isn't walking. This gives the Amarr scout an effective speed advantage against any suit who doesn't have as much stamina as they do at the time of the engagement.

People really need to learn how to read. I never said i was or wasn't getting this suit. I won't do it out of peer pressure but if I don't it will be a mixture of factors such as the millions of skills I have into the scan range/profile/dampening and kin cats. These would compliment the other scouts more and to use the Amarr scout as I have described would require skilling into shotguns and cardiac regulators to take advantage of the suit. Just because I don't typically use the current scouts that way does not make my points in any way invalid or dishonest. I reference the heavy suit analogy againGǪ By this logic, anyone who has ever thought that a heavy suit could be useful in CQC but didn't skill into them would be a hypocrite for acknowledging the benefits of the suit but not skilling into heavy suits/weapons right away.

The upper limit is virtually never having to worry about sprinting/jumping around corners if you're being shot. This is incredibly useful and if we disagree then I don't know what to say.

The bonus also effects the recharge rate. 10 seconds can mean the difference between getting around a corner or not. The next time you're playing count 10 seconds worth of sprinting and try to imagine not having that every time you go to use it. It's enough of a bonus to notice the difference. We're not talking about what's "enough" as the normal hack speed is "enough" for everyone who isn't running a minmatar scout or code breakers. It's about excelling in a stat, not getting just enough to move around the map slightly more effectively than medium suits.

That's cute, about the movement speed and low slots. I forgot that when people talk about speed tanking they mean strafe speedGǪ No. Sprint speed is clearly more important and they make modules especially for that. If you want the fastest scout, don't get the Amarr, plain and simple. If you want the most mobile suit, pick the Amarr scout and put a kin cat on it.

I made up a hypothetical heavy suits with a difference of 100 hp to demonstrate a point, so I don't know why you're referencing real suits and implying that I was making a claim about them.

Actually no, no matter how many green bottles your have you can only jump 3 times one right after another. But if your talking about waiting a few seconds after each jump then yes you can virtually jump ALOT.

Good point, I still don't see a problem with the Amarr Scout being slower than the Minmatar Assault (Note: It has been edited, though I derped the dropsuit, I meant Minmatar Assault, not Minmatar Scout)

I admitted to misreading the spreadsheet so yeah I made an error in the hp comparison. +1 for catching this without insisting I was trying to intentionally mislead the other readers.

The comparison is not dishonest, but maybe irrelevant if you insist on calling it something "bad". I think I've addressed that light suits being faster than assaults shouldn't be a ridiculously strict rule in drop suit design especially when comparing the fastest medium and slowest light suits and only getting a 0.05m/s difference. Again, my solution is just trade the speeds and we can move on.

You can jump until you run out of stamina and have it all back in 6 seconds to do what you will with it if you have the complex regulator. No other suit can say the same. I'm not saying that you need to jump constantly with this suit, I'm saying that you will be free to outmaneuver other suits without having to worry about if you have enough stamina to escape.

I don't see how i'm being disingenuous (had to look it up, but I still disagree) with the comparison considering everyone was basing their original opinions on the whole "it's equivalent to a basic module blah blah blah" standard. This does not reveal much about the true increase in advantage the bonus gives to one scout over another, while the percentage increase literally does exactly that.

To your point A: Yeah adding modules typically does overtake gaps for most suits/skills. There's nothing special about the Amarr or the Gallente in this respect.

B: May be true that most people would rather have dampening but if it means that much to you to always be invisible then you shouldn't be using the Amarr scout or you should be using a good cloak strategically. Just because people would rather have the bonus of one suit over another doesn't make one better than the other, it just means more people would prefer their own suit.

People make claims that the minmatar assault was UP compared to the rest of the assaults but I completely disagree because I run the SMG mostly and the clip bonus is gold. The ratio of Caldari Assaults to Minmatar Assaults should demonstrate that people consider more health (or reload speed back when it had that) more useful than sidearm clip size. This doesn't mean the bonus should be changed because it's bad, it just means more people care more about reload speed or shield tanking (no surprise).

This is why I went with a percentage increase. Completely unbiased by opinions on what is "better" across the board.

The conclusion I got from your analysis (which was extremely interesting, honestly) is that the gallente is far more versatile than the Amarr. I don't typically go into a suit for the versatility but I understand that others do. If I want a hacking suit then I'll go where the hacking bonus is and max it out in any way I can. They could've given it to the callogi and I would've picked that suit because of it and stack modules to make it far superior than other suits. I don't try to replicate other suits, even if it can be done far easier with one than another.

Another point I think that is worth considering is that people always try to compare suits to the Gallente (and now i guess also Caldari) scout in terms of scan profile but it's pointless. If you want to get to that level, just pick that suit. It should be hard to be invisible to scanners and you should have to give up a lot to do so. I think it's cool that CCP created a suit that can have a head start in that direction but to pick another suit, even another scout, and try to get as low as the scout that was meant to avoid every type of scanner is ridiculous and no one should get upset that it is costly.

While this is MHO, I do agree that clearly the gallente suit is more versatile and honestly I thought the armor repair was too much and should be removed.

Again, faster regen = more jumping.

Am I being called a racist here? Haha by praising the suit? Just because it's not going to be super OP/FOTM doesn't mean it has to be buffed until it has potential to be. I was against all scout suit changes. I predict the scout suits will be the new assault suits and it will fill the forums within a week. I hope I'm wrong but I don't think I will beGǪ

Haha if ISK is the conversion factor then I suggest you take a look at MLT tanks, PLCs, SLs, Commando suits, Flaylock back in the day, etc.GǪ The point of using percentage increases is that the usefulness of one stat is based on preference and play styles.
Also it fails to consider blueprintsGǪ.

I'm not comparing stamina to dampening, I'm comparing increase in efficiency to increase in efficiency. There is nothing ambiguous about this comparison. The advantage given to the Amarr suit because of it's bonus is X and the advantage given to the Gallente suit because of it's bonus is Y. If X > Y then the Amarr bonus offers a larger advantage TO STAMINA than the Gallente bonus offers to DAMPENING.

In your analogy you are not even including the other population in any calculation while a percentage increase does exactly that, measure the increase in efficiency from one suit to another. I don't know what other calculation you'd expect to do.

This is a straight-up false dichotomy. There is no reason to say there can only be two possible reasons. What is true? You think it's not a problem and I do - exactly that much.


This is a non-argument. You can say "speed affects the playability of either suit". I agree with that statement because I think speed makes a large difference. What does NOT follow from that is that a .05 m/s buff/nerf is noticeable. It's a complete non sequitur - the two statements have nothing to do with each other. The fact that the the Amarr Scout isn't noticeably faster (e.g. - scout speed advantage) is exactly the bad part. That's how speed affects the playability of the scout - by failing to give the scout a speed advantage over a better tanked suit.

You're missing the point - whole point of this thread actually. The point is to have a noticeable difference in the speed of the Amarr scout. The phrasing of the title may suggest that even a slight bonus would rectify the situation, but I didn't write the title nor explain my position in those terms. Scouts need to have a noticeable speed advantage over assault to compensate for the lack of hp, and the Amarr does not have this. The Amarr aren't getting speed, stealth, or regen in comparison to other scouts. The speed isn't enough because they lack the actual speed advantage, both against an assault (which can out-tank them) and against other scouts. Saying to slot a kincat will do nothing for the strafe/combat speed, since it only boosts sprint speed.

I pointed out math-wise in the previous post that the Amarr stamina bonus doesn't actually let them jump "more", they will jump exactly the same and regen enough for another jump in the exact period of time with or without the bonus.

I don't care what anyone thinks, its just bullshit that an assaults suit base speed is faster than any scouts it just defeats the purpose of being a scout and should be change ASAP

Because Amarr suits are not designed for speed, but durability. Sure, your Minmatar assault can run faster than an Amarr scout, but the Amarr scout keeps on blazing by as the Minmatar Assault stopped to catch a breath five times already.

Not to mention that these are just the base stats, scouts usually invest at least a few points into biotics, specifically kinetic catalyzers, which would improve their base speed and possibly make the Amarr scout a bit faster than a standard Minmatar assault

Aren't their base HP the same?

Because Amarr is slow, that how it works.
Because Minmatar is fast that how it works.

So the fast suit is slower than the slow suit. As expected.
Don't be suprised if the Minmatar heavy is faster than the Amarr Logi

Angry mob of Dust 514,

I'm sorry but I think I'm done posting in this thread. Every time I come back I spend a couple hours responding to like 5 people trying to tear apart paragraphs with more paragraphs.

Say what you will but it's simply not worth it to continue these arguments as they are all almost identical but different enough to respond to individually.

My bottom line is that I think the Amarr scout will be fine as it is and it doesn't bother me that an assault suit is faster than it.

If you want the last word then keep posting and I will read the responses with an open mind, but I hope at least someone looks back and does the same.

Until another scout thread appears,
Toby

The bottom line on our end is that you ignored every argument, made up straw men that we weren't arguing for, and blithely refused to answer when faced with evidence like the Amarr not actually being able to jump more often than others (which was the crux of your Amarr advantage in many cases). You made the argument about the speed difference between the Minmatar and Amarr not being large (which was conceded before you even showed up in the thread), but you continued attacking that anyway.

If you're done, I won't bother dissecting the tragedy against logic and mess of misdirection that was your former reply.

Hoping you learn math some day,
Zeylon