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Minmatar assualt faster than Amarr scout.

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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p TRA1LBLAZERS 444	Posted - 2014.02.05 03:26:00 - [1] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: Denak Kalamari wrote: Because Amarr suits are not designed for speed, but durability. Sure, your Minmatar assault can run faster than an Amarr scout, but the Amarr scout keeps on blazing by as the Minmatar Assault stopped to catch a breath five times already. Not to mention that these are just the base stats, scouts usually invest at least a few points into biotics, specifically kinetic catalyzers, which would improve their base speed and possibly make the Amarr scout a bit faster than a standard Minmatar assault It's a scout, it needs to be faster than assaults. Something something about the Amarr variant of the fastest ship class in EVE is still faster than the Minmatar version of the second fastest ship class in EVE. What is stupid is the Amarr are given this speed penalty because they get more base HP, something scouts don't really care about, and that the difference between base HP is relatively smaller when you compare the Amarr scout to other scouts yet it gets the same amount of speed penalty. DozersMouse XIII wrote: 4 lows vs 2 lows So does the Gallente scout, plus faster plus an inherent 3 armor repair per second. Gallente scout is just better. And then you have minmitar... Kills- Archduke Ferdinand Balance!
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p TRA1LBLAZERS 461	Posted - 2014.02.06 21:42:00 - [2] - Quote the ammarr scout does not need more speed, it needs like 50-60 more base hp and the best fittings of any scout, better than gallente. The minmitar assault is good where it is at, the only thing that needs to change is shield extenders which have way to high fitting requirements to be used effectively. Gallente scout is by far the best of any scout, surpassing minmitar in speed tanking potential, ehp potential, repair potential, passive scan potential and everything else. The only thing gallente does worse than minmitar and amarr is stamina. This is how it should work Minmitar scout=fastest suit, great speed tanker, biotically amped freak of an assassin, without enough hp to survive 2 rail rifle shots Amarr scout=slowest scout, but fastest in the long run, basically a light amarr assault that can speed tank as well, best uplink runner, medium frame like hp with light frame speed and dampening To allow for this, shield extenders need less fitting requirements and better regen on minmitar and caldari suits, as well as more hp on STD and ADV extenders, kincats need a larger stacking penalty, especially after two, but affect strafe speed by one half of what they do to sprint speed as well, and minmitar scouts need a 5 ish % buff to sprint and movement speed. Ammarr scouts, on the other hand, need their bonus tuned up to at least 10% per level, and gain +15-20 shield, and +35-40 armor at base, as well as gaining 10-15% more cpu and pg. Kills- Archduke Ferdinand Balance!
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p TRA1LBLAZERS 462	Posted - 2014.02.06 21:51:00 - [3] - Quote read my previous post and tell me what you think, Checkmate Kills- Archduke Ferdinand Balance!
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p TRA1LBLAZERS 465	Posted - 2014.02.06 22:01:00 - [4] - Quote Vrain Matari wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: the ammarr scout does not need more speed, it needs like 50-60 more base hp and the best fittings of any scout, better than gallente. The minmitar assault is good where it is at, the only thing that needs to change is shield extenders which have way to high fitting requirements to be used effectively. Gallente scout is by far the best of any scout, surpassing minmitar in speed tanking potential, ehp potential, repair potential, passive scan potential and everything else. The only thing gallente does worse than minmitar and amarr is stamina. This is how it should work Minmitar scout=fastest suit, great speed tanker, biotically amped freak of an assassin, without enough hp to survive 2 rail rifle shots Amarr scout=slowest scout, but fastest in the long run, basically a light amarr assault that can speed tank as well, best uplink runner, medium frame like hp with light frame speed and dampening To allow for this, shield extenders need less fitting requirements and better regen on minmitar and caldari suits, as well as more hp on STD and ADV extenders, kincats need a larger stacking penalty, especially after two, but affect strafe speed by one half of what they do to sprint speed as well, and minmitar scouts need a 5 ish % buff to sprint and movement speed. Ammarr scouts, on the other hand, need their bonus tuned up to at least 10% per level, and gain +15-20 shield, and +35-40 armor at base, as well as gaining 10-15% more cpu and pg. +1. Nicely balanced. Good racial themeing. Love the approach to kincats with 1/2 bonus to strafe. TY :) i think it gives the minmitar a role for speed tanking and assassination at CQC, and amarr a role as the front running pointman, so to speak Kills- Archduke Ferdinand Balance!
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p TRA1LBLAZERS 465	Posted - 2014.02.06 22:02:00 - [5] - Quote Ivan Avogadro wrote: @Monkey MAC: I completely agree with you that there is no problem with the fastest assault being faster than the slowest scout. A little overlap is fine. But the fast assault also gets more EHP. So what is the Amarr Scout's role if they are simultaneously slower and weaker? You talk about how the Scout is supposed to be the slowest but strongest of it's class, but Scouts don't exist in a vacuum on the battlefield. If you want something stronger and slower, you should pick the Min Assault. There is no reason to choose the Amarr Scout. It needs to have a reason to exist. Either push the speed faster than the Min Assault OR give it more EHP. If Amarr Scouts really are supposed to be brick tanks, then they better have a reason for being that slow. If all the Min suits are going to be a full frame size faster than the Amarr, they need to be a full frame size weaker too. You are forgetting dampening, but i agree that amarr scouts need med frame EHP Kills- Archduke Ferdinand Balance!
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p TRA1LBLAZERS 466	Posted - 2014.02.07 02:15:00 - [6] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: read my previous post and tell me what you think, Checkmate I feel, its all good (Specially the strafe speed increase) but, what will make a suit like amarr scout worth is a BONUS CHANGE. 25% Stamina (not even MLT cardiac regulator) worth in bonus is just sad. I really cant find a single reason i should use the amarr scout over the gallente one. What would you suggest as bonuses? Kills- Archduke Ferdinand Balance!
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p TRA1LBLAZERS 466	Posted - 2014.02.07 02:36:00 - [7] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: KING CHECKMATE wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: read my previous post and tell me what you think, Checkmate I feel, its all good (Specially the strafe speed increase) but, what will make a suit like amarr scout worth is a BONUS CHANGE. 25% Stamina (not even MLT cardiac regulator) worth in bonus is just sad. I really cant find a single reason i should use the amarr scout over the gallente one. What would you suggest as bonuses? Well the one the Amarr Scout had previously BEFORE this wretched community CRIED like it always CRIES: GÖª 5% Cloak Cool-down reduction per level (up to 25%) Or other Bonuses that help the Amarr Scout be the Offensive light frame is meant to be: GÖª If the Assault Amarr looses its current bonus then the Scout could really use it: 5% Heat buildup reduction per level to laser weaponry GÖª a Stamina Increase (Buffed) plus something else, Example: +10% Max Stamina and Stamina regen AND= +15% Melee damage per level or +5% Damage to SCR PISTOLS or +1 HP Per sec Armor rep Or whatever! I mean the Gallente scout has the Best Dampening, Great Radar range, is FASTER and has similar,tanking capabilities. Gallente has cx Profile dampener and one Basic Range amplifier worth in Modules The amarr one has (LESS THAN) a MLT Cardiac regulator. WTH. comparing any amarr or minmitar suit to a gallente suit is not done, all gallente suits are better in every way. the 5% heatup reduction was removed from the assault because i beleive CCP found it to be overpowered that the strongest weapon in the game WITH A MODDED CONTROLLER could be used as such with no real penalties. The combat rifle now kinda defeats my point, but i beleive balance will come for that weapon...one day... 10% at least to stamina is needed, but for the other bonuses- Melee damage-too similar to minmitar scout, though it is a balanced idea damage to scrambler pistols would be absolutely overpowered. The reason minmitar gets a bonus to knives is because knives are SO situational that it is balanced, and in fact, even underpowered. Giving a similar bonus to a ranged weapon which is arguably the best sidearm in the game, would be simply too powerful, though +1 clip size would be a decent idea instead armor per second isnt a bad idea, i actually like it, and think it would be balanced, however it doesnt fit the racial mantra of the brick tanked amarr Kills- Archduke Ferdinand Balance!
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p TRA1LBLAZERS 468	Posted - 2014.02.07 02:51:00 - [8] - Quote the commando is going to be a force to be reckoned with...mass driver and combat rifle, anyone? sprint speed faster than a scout's base movement, wielding weapons of destruction with a bonus to damage gives you a deadly combo Kills- Archduke Ferdinand Balance!
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p TRA1LBLAZERS 468	Posted - 2014.02.07 03:07:00 - [9] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: @ Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p= ''comparing any amarr or minmitar suit to a gallente suit is not done, all gallente suits are better in every way. '' GÖª Actually , in the case of Minmatar scout, its not true.. The Min scout is Equal (or BETTER if NK is your main weapon) than the GAl : Faster suit in the field + 3cx damage mods AND 1 cx Codebreaker worth in BONUSES, most balanced slot loadout with 3 & 3. ''the 5% heatup reduction was removed from the assault because i beleive CCP found it to be overpowered that the strongest weapon in the game WITH A MODDED CONTROLLER could be used as such with no real penalties. The combat rifle now kinda defeats my point, but i beleive balance will come for that weapon...one day...'' GÖª Its a shame a good bonus DS3 players could use to improve their weapon experience is being removed because SKILL LESS NOOBS cant play without modded controllers. Of Course instead of CCP taking action against Modded controllers they remove the bonus, Good move.... NOT. ''damage to scrambler pistols would be absolutely overpowered. The reason minmitar gets a bonus to knives is because knives are SO situational that it is balanced, and in fact, even underpowered. Giving a similar bonus to a ranged weapon which is arguably the best sidearm in the game, would be simply too powerful, though +1 clip size would be a decent idea instead'' GÖª I actually think +1 bullet to the clip per level is more OP XD , ok, how about +2% Damage to SCR PISTOLS per level sound (per level)? Its only 1cx Damage mod worth in bonus. ''armor per second isnt a bad idea, i actually like it, and think it would be balanced, however it doesnt fit the racial mantra of the brick tanked amarr'' GÖª Actually , on the contrary. Armor rep is ALWAYS equal to MORE ARMOR. Having 1 cx armor rep worth of bonus lets amarr use another low slot For ARMOR PLATES. Gal is better in every way, but thats also due to armor/shield imbalance, so if that gets fixed i will agree. The main reason gallente is so good is because they can fit 3x kincats and a damage and a shield extender and a plate, requiring no slot for a profile dampener and still have room for a cloak and weapons. Minmitar, on the other hand, cant fit 3x kincats and 3x shields to become faster than gallente, it takes too much pg, and would only be able to fit a flaylock on afterwards (pg cost of modules=45+33=78, most minmitar can have with maxed skills is 80) so instead, we rely on a profile dampener. Cool, now ere slower than the gal scout, and equally dampened, with 15 pg to spare. whatever though, we can still fit nova knives and another weapon, and at least a basic cloak right? NOPE. nova knives cost 8 pg at proto (only useful form, and btw they dont having a fitting optimization skill etither) and a basic cloak costs 9 at maxed out skills. Now lets look at gallente-1 ADV plate+base hp with bonuses+complex shield extender= more hp than a minmitar scout with maxed skillls and 3x shield extenders, plus gallente get a 3/s armor rep. Now they can fit 3x kincats, and are faster than minmitar that was theory crafted above, and a damage mod to make them do more damage. now lets look at their pg usage- 3x15+11+5+9=70 pg. with maxed out skills, a g-scout is at over 90 pg, giving them 20 pg remaining, allowing for a cloak, and adv specialist shotgun, a basic SMG, and a stable active scanner. Their cpu is a little tight, but it all fits. Kills- Archduke Ferdinand Balance!
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p TRA1LBLAZERS 468	Posted - 2014.02.07 03:11:00 - [10] - Quote my suggestion for the scrambler rifle is in my sig, and i know you agree with that, and i think its balanced too, so we agree 2% damage actually sounds balanced, id be fine with that What i meant by tanking is that ammarr is traditionally high base HP with low regenerative properties, kinda like the opposite of a minmitar is supposed to be, so what i meant is that it goes against racial mantra somewhat, however, i agree that its a very balanced idea Kills- Archduke Ferdinand Balance!

Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p TRA1LBLAZERS 468	Posted - 2014.02.07 03:12:00 - [11] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: the commando is going to be a force to be reckoned with...mass driver and combat rifle, anyone? sprint speed faster than a scout's base movement, wielding weapons of destruction with a bonus to damage gives you a deadly combo Forgot reload speed. + GÖª Gallente PCannon (1 sec reload) and Duvolle combo GÖª Amarr SCR + LASER combos GÖª CAldari RR + ARR combo GÖª Minmatar CR + SWARM LAUNCHER combo... Etc... the only weakness of the combat rifle is having to reload, the commando bonus negates that Kills- Archduke Ferdinand Balance!
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p TRA1LBLAZERS 468	Posted - 2014.02.07 03:27:00 - [12] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: @ Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Gal is better in every way, but thats also due to armor/shield imbalance, so if that gets fixed i will agree. The main reason gallente is so good is because they can fit 3x kincats and a damage and a shield extender and a plate, requiring no slot for a profile dampener and still have room for a cloak and weapons. Minmitar, on the other hand, cant fit 3x kincats and 3x shields to become faster than gallente, it takes too much pg, and would only be able to fit a flaylock on afterwards (pg cost of modules=45+33=78, most minmitar can have with maxed skills is 80) so instead, we rely on a profile dampener. ''Gal is better in every way'' GÖª Ok this is not entirely true, because it REALLY DEPENDS on your play style!! NO OTHER SUIT IN THE GAME can provide 6 Complex damage mods worth in knife damage ( 3 high slots + bonus), PLUS THE innate Codebreaker makes the Min scout the elite hacker. Again, you are just thinking of the Scout as ASSAULTS use it, not as scouts use it. Real scouts DONT TANK. '' Cool, now ere slower than the gal scout, and equally dampened, with 15 pg to spare. whatever though, we can still fit nova knives and another weapon, and at least a basic cloak right? NOPE. nova knives cost 8 pg at proto (only useful form, and btw they dont having a fitting optimization skill etither) and a basic cloak costs 9 at maxed out skills. Now lets look at gallente-1 ADV plate+base hp with bonuses+complex shield extender= more hp than a minmitar scout with maxed skillls and 3x shield extenders, plus gallente get a 3/s armor rep. Now they can fit 3x kincats, and are faster than minmitar that was theory crafted above, and a damage mod to make them do more damage. now lets look at their pg usage- 3x15+11+5+9=70 pg. with maxed out skills, a g-scout is at over 90 pg, giving them 20 pg remaining, allowing for a cloak, and adv specialist shotgun, a basic SMG, and a stable active scanner. Their cpu is a little tight, but it all fits'' Well yeah, Min are supposed to have trouble fitting stuff. While amarr has usually less slots but higher CPU-PG values. STILL, Minmatar will be better if your purpose is NK use or Infiltration hacking. The Gal is just a better BATTLE suit... The minmitar should be able to speed tank, thats it. Gallente can have more ehp and better bonuses, but i want to be an anarchist, and i really cant if i get mowed down by rail rifles in less than half a second. I agree that the nova knife and hacking bonus have their place, but thats only in a skirmish or sometimes dom, and for nova knives if your target is under 2 meters away, facing away from you, or coming out from behind a wall low lag, not doing the constant moving in a circle thing, not sprinting, not jumping, and you have luck on your side, and your target has less than 500 EHP Kills- Archduke Ferdinand Balance!
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p TRA1LBLAZERS 479	Posted - 2014.02.08 18:49:00 - [13] - Quote The problem with the argument that the minmitar suits bonuses are better than the ammar is nullified by the fact that they are only usable in a skirmish on a player less than 2 meters away if they are not moving. Otherwise, you might as well go gallente Kills- Archduke Ferdinand Balance!
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p TRA1LBLAZERS 484	Posted - 2014.02.09 01:39:00 - [14] - Quote Zeylon Rho wrote: Toby Flenderson wrote: Angry mob of Dust 514, I'm sorry but I think I'm done posting in this thread. Every time I come back I spend a couple hours responding to like 5 people trying to tear apart paragraphs with more paragraphs. Say what you will but it's simply not worth it to continue these arguments as they are all almost identical but different enough to respond to individually. My bottom line is that I think the Amarr scout will be fine as it is and it doesn't bother me that an assault suit is faster than it. If you want the last word then keep posting and I will read the responses with an open mind, but I hope at least someone looks back and does the same. Until another scout thread appears, Toby The bottom line on our end is that you ignored every argument, made up straw men that we weren't arguing for, and blithely refused to answer when faced with evidence like the Amarr not actually being able to jump more often than others (which was the crux of your Amarr advantage in many cases). You made the argument about the speed difference between the Minmatar and Amarr not being large (which was conceded before you even showed up in the thread), but you continued attacking that anyway. If you're done, I won't bother dissecting the tragedy against logic and mess of misdirection that was your former reply. Hoping you learn math some day, Zeylon I do beleive CCP will be changing jump cost to a constant, so dont worry and blindly complain. Amarr scout is still>minmitar assault in terms of scoutliness. Read my sig if you want to know what i think, last page i have a post about suit balancing, especially between scouts Kills- Archduke Ferdinand Balance!

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