Scouts already have insane endurance. the amarr suit will compound this and leave room for other mods. don't sell it short.

I don't care what anyone thinks, its just bullshit that an assaults suit base speed is faster than any scouts it just defeats the purpose of being a scout and should be change ASAP

Maybe wait until the suit is released before trying to change currently existing suits?

Anyway, this is pretty ridiculous to say. Consider the advantages of the minmatar assault (M) vs. the amarr scout (A)GǪ


M > A:
EHP by 35
Slots by 1
Speed by 0.05 m/s
CPU by 10
Melee by 30
Armor repair rate 1hp/s

A > M:
Equipment by 1
Shield rechange by 12 hp/s
S.R. Delay by 2 seconds
D.S.R. Delay by 4 seconds
Scan Range by 10m
Scan Profile by 15
Scan Precision by 10
Stamina by 50
Stamina Recovery by 20

I've chosen not to include role bonuses for simplicity, as I was pretty sure my point was made already by the above comparison.

Take note that not only are the M advantages less important/practical (melee, 1hp/s, speed, etc.), they are also extremely small improvements from the amarr suit. If you take a look at some of the A advantages, I'd argue that just about all of these are more important and I wouldn't trade any of them for anything in the M > A column. They are also clearly much higher increases (sometimes even doubled that of the minmatar suit).

This being said, I don't see how someone in their right mind would be upset over a 0.05 m/s speed advantage given to the minmatar assault considering the massive advantages given to the amarr scout.

Zeylon, but what role is left for the Amarr Scout now?

Cal - range (EWAR) and passive precision (EWAR)
Gal - range (EWAR) and dampening (EWAR)
Min - nova knives (melee, Biotics-ish), speed (Biotics), and hacking
Am - stamina and stamina regen (Biotics)

Am needs something in the scout wheelhouse, but everything in Biotics and EWAR is taken. Unless you give them a straight melee bonus and turn them punch suits. You could give them the same range bonus that Cal and Gal get, leave the Min scout out in the cold as the least EWAR-y scout, but that dilutes down the war that the two nemeses have going.

Min gets a bonus to fitting a weapon (offense). You could give them a bonus to fitting plates (defense, opposite their nemesis) but that would be too close to tanking them into assaults.

The uplink runner idea is the only scouty one left, if they can carry extra uplinks or hives per equip slot. Bump up their stamina too.

Honestly I didn't even know it was that small of a difference when I read that I just assumed it was by like 3-5 of a tenth faster but know that someone's shown the math I really don't care anymore. But what is just absolute **** is the amarr bonus.

Hahaha I just posted more math explaining why the bonus is amazing.

M > A:
EHP by 35
Slots by 1
Speed by 0.05 m/s
CPU by 10
Melee by 30
Armor repair rate 1hp/s

A > M:
Equipment by 1
Shield rechange by 12 hp/s
S.R. Delay by 2 seconds
D.S.R. Delay by 4 seconds
Scan Range by 10m
Scan Profile by 15
Scan Precision by 10
Stamina by 50
Stamina Recovery by 20

This being said, I don't see how someone in their right mind would be upset over a 0.05 m/s speed advantage given to the minmatar assault considering the massive advantages given to the amarr scout.

AHAH SWEET!
I will be looking forward to squadding up with you an YOUR PROTO AMARR SCOUT , see how well it fares vs my Gal scout ok?

:3

(YOU ARE , after all, going to use the Amarr Scout right? Since the bonus is sooo amazing there is no other suit that can compare...?)

This is why I hate when I read people complaining about the Amarr scout using the "oh well the others get a free complex module when this thing doesn't even get a basic". Clearly, when you stack a complex module on top of a drop suit bonus, the Amarr scout shines as far as it's effective advantage over the other scouts.

I'm not saying it's better than any other suit, I'm saying that the claims that it's bonus is very small in comparison with the other 3 scout suit bonuses is false when you consider the extremely likely probability of "tanking" the bonus with a module.

I prefer the current Gallente scout and already have the range skills maxed out and planned on becoming a stealth/radar beacon because that's my play style most of the time. I have the kin kats maxed as well for my minmatar scout if speed tanking becomes viable again.

The decision regarding which suit to choose is not dependent on the stats as much as my play style. That being said, a slower scout is not my style, but it may ultimately be able to travel more effectively than the rest overall.

I see that you're trying to trap me into admitting that I will probably not choose the Amarr scout and implying that my previous post does not reflect how I feel about the suits myself. Neither are true.

I'm not saying it's better than any other suit, I'm saying that the claims that it's bonus is very small in comparison with the other 3 scout suit bonuses is false when you consider the extremely likely probability of "tanking" the bonus with a module.

I prefer the current Gallente scout and already have the range skills maxed out and planned on becoming a stealth/radar beacon because that's my play style most of the time. I have the kin kats maxed as well for my minmatar scout if speed tanking becomes viable again.

The decision regarding which suit to choose is not dependent on the stats as much as my play style. That being said, a slower scout is not my style, but it may ultimately be able to travel more effectively than the rest overall.

I see that you're trying to trap me into admitting that I will probably not choose the Amarr scout and implying that my previous post does not reflect how I feel about the suits myself. Neither are true.

I just don't understand how you people don't understand its the slowest scout what good would running longer do if you run slow as ****? Its has latterly ONE damn bonus that I could surpass with a basic mod. But that's not worst part I could get past all that if the bonus wasn't so **** like if I didn't care so much about aesthetics I'd be rocking Minmatar gear all day everyday.

Three of the listed Amarr "advantages" over the Minmatar are shield related:
Shield rechange by 12 hp/s
S.R. Delay by 2 seconds
D.S.R. Delay by 4 seconds

The Amarr Scout has the lowest base shields in the entire game, of any suit, and role, anywhere. Period. At Proto, it has 2 high slots with which to boost that. The Amarr is not going to get much mileage out that "bonus" against the Minmatar suit.

The HP difference you refer to as "small" is also larger than the hp bonus the Amarr enjoys over the next highest ehp scouts. So, the extent to which it is meaningless, is only as meaningless as the advantage the Amarr enjoys over the Gallente or Caldari (the former of which has innate armor reps at 3 per second, the latter of which can leverage the scout shield bonuses more). The single slot advantage of the assault allows this difference to be exploited to an even larger degree.

The fact that the speed difference is marginal is flame-bait, but the problem would be just as annoying if their speed was the exact same. The problem is the slowest scout being the at the same speed OR slower than the fastest assault. The lower scout hp typically indicates a need to speed tank or generally be "gone" to evade the slower but more powerful suits. The Amarr lacks any strafing advantage vs. an Minmatar Assault. The fact he can sprint longer (at the same speed) will make a difference... sometimes? But those few extra seconds of sprinting are largely irrelevant in the sense of combat viability, and not marked enough to set it apart in usefulness as a scout.

The most salient bonuses the Amarr scout DOES have are the profile detection-related ones, but those are the same (or BETTER) across all scouts and the Amarr is SOL when it comes to the other scout strengths at dealing with other suits, especially the Minmatar assault which has a speed and hp advantage on him.

No, it's still *****, because you're ignoring the usefulness of said bonuses, and the practicality inherent in using a complex module or not.

A bonus to something like dampening is very useful in the sense that you're almost required to use X modules if you want to evade active scanners. So, getting a free complex dampener (and a standard range amp to boot) is extremely useful in freeing up a slot, as you often NEED that higher tier dampener to get some value out of dampening in the first place. Scanners on the proto end are quite powerful, and rather common as well.

The stamina comparison shows a clear numerical difference, but it ignores practicality. In terms of sprinting time, the Gallente can sprint for 42 seconds in your example, the Amarr can sprint about a minute. Yes, this is longer with the Amarr. This isn't a concrete need value-wise like the profile dampening though, where you need to hit X value to avoid scanners. Ask yourself how often do you need to sprint a minute in the game?

In how many instances, when covering lots of ground, would running say... 42 seconds be just as good? Most of them. Actually, with maxed biotics, you rarely even need a stamina mod to begin with. You can close the distance to objectives fast/quickly enough with a kincat, and the speed is often more efficient and useful. Let's not forget the Gallente suit is also FASTER, and will cover more ground in those 42 seconds than the Amarr will in the first 42 of its sprint. So, the Amarr already sacrifices part of that stamina "bonus" to compensate for being slow.

That's why the Amarr bonus is crap. Aside from the fact we're comparing "Less than a STD Module" and "Complex + a STD Module" in terms of bonus.

Look bro.

Facts are facts. Stamina is fun, but unless i get something like 100% Melee damage to go with it, its useless.
I wouldn't use the Amarr scout even if it had 200% Stamina and Stamina recovery per level.

Why?
The same reason why YOU wont spend a single SP on the damn suit.
Because it sucks.

Now stop trying to convince people who ACTUALLY WANT TO SPEC IN THE SUIT , that its good, if your not even going to use it yourself. ok?

STamina is a sh**- bonus doesnt matter how you try to cover it:

+100% Stamina and Stamina regen < 25%Profile dampening
+100% Stamina and Stamina regen < 25% Scan Radius
+100% Stamina and Stamina regen < 25% NK Damage
+100% Stamina and Stamina regen < 25% Hacking speed
+100% Stamina and Stamina regen < 25% Scan precision

GOT IT?
good.

I just don't understand how you people don't understand its the slowest scout what good would running longer do if you run slow as ****? Its has latterly ONE damn bonus that I could surpass with a basic mod. But that's not worst part I could get past all that if the bonus wasn't so **** like if I didn't care so much about aesthetics I'd be rocking Minmatar gear all day everyday.

1. 2 Complex shield extenders with passive skills gives the Amarr scout 281.5 shield. As far as getting the mileage out of it, this is what I generally have on my scouts ATM and it's plenty for a great buffer between engagements. The regen rate is nearly twice that of the minmatar assault. The only thing that the minmatar has is amount of shield, which IMO, past 300 doesn't mean nearly as much recharge delay/rate especially when you're talking about 4 extra seconds and nearly half the recharge rate.

2. I'm not talking about other scouts. I'm only comparing the M.A. and A.S. If a a sentinel had 100 more armor than another it wouldn't mean much considering they tend to break 1,000 ehp. This 100 would be a crazy increase for a scout but it doesn't mean anything when comparing sentinels. I would much rather have the natural armor reps from the gallente scout but that doesn't matter either, the point is 35 base ehp is hardly worth bragging about, especially going from a light to a medium assault suit that is meant for frontline action. As far as slots go, low slots are more useful for ehp tanking. I'm not sure on the math but I'd be willing to bet that the amarr scout could tank as much or more health than the minmatar assault.

3. I honestly don't even know what flame-bait means but if you're claiming that it's the principle of the matter (that the speed should be limited from tier to tier) then I'm sure you wouldn't mind the assault getting pushed back to 99% of the Amarr scout's speed. This would abide by this arbitrary restriction and make virtually no difference in playability, hence my point that the speed advantage is worthless. If the HP was significantly lower, then I'd agree with you, but it isn't. The minmatar assault is more like a scout than an assault in terms of speed and health, yet they're not expected to run from other "more powerful" suits. Strafing matters, I agree, but not 0.05 m/s. The stamina allows the scout to continue jumping in a CQ fight against anything and still have time to run and dodge and jump some more. This is why I'm killed the most as a scout: Not able to escape. Current scouts without regulators can jump a couple times and run around a nearby corner if they have full stamina. In those situations, stamina is gold, not necessarily speed.

4. Again I'm not concerned with the other scouts, as this thread is about the comparison between the Amarr scout and the Minmatar assault. If you want to see some interesting math with regards to other scouts, check out my last few posts.

3. I honestly don't even know what flame-bait means but if you're claiming that it's the principle of the matter (that the speed should be limited from tier to tier) then I'm sure you wouldn't mind the assault getting pushed back to 99% of the Amarr scout's speed. This would abide by this arbitrary restriction and make virtually no difference in playability, hence my point that the speed advantage is worthless. If the HP was significantly lower, then I'd agree with you, but it isn't. The minmatar assault is more like a scout than an assault in terms of speed and health, yet they're not expected to run from other "more powerful" suits. Strafing matters, I agree, but not 0.05 m/s. The stamina allows the scout to continue jumping in a CQ fight against anything and still have time to run and dodge and jump some more. This is why I'm killed the most as a scout: Not able to escape. Current scouts without regulators can jump a couple times and run around a nearby corner if they have full stamina. In those situations, stamina is gold, not necessarily speed.

4. Again I'm not concerned with the other scouts, as this thread is about the comparison between the Amarr scout and the Minmatar assault. If you want to see some interesting math with regards to other scouts, check out my last few posts.

Do you even jump? Seriously people are so focused on running in straight lines when most of the time ability to jump around your target (especially heavies) is what keeps a scout alive. I'd say most of my deaths in engagements as a scout arise from not being able to escape/jump to safety.

If you have a current minmatar logi and you want to run it as a hacker, you don't just take the bonus and run with that. You skill into code breakers and load it up so that you can insta-hack. In this way you're maximizing your advantage. If you're not doing this with your suits, you're doing something wrong.

As far as practicality is concerned, I value stamina over dampening in the current build. No one is going to be complaining about getting scanned when they can run cloaks and avoid most of them completely, but that's beside the point. It's stupid to think that just because the advantage you get from biopics isn't either completely useful or completely useless as is dampening, that it doesn't matter. Think about how often fast you can use stamina and think about how fast the Amarr will recover. It's almost erasing the stamina restriction for the drop suit with a complex module. You can get it all back in seconds and just run for another minute. This is a huge difference in the scope of an entire match. Say you play a 15 minute match as the amarr scout. You could sprint for a minute every 6 seconds. This means that every 10 minutes of sprint requires 1 minute of rest. So out of an entire match you will spend less than 1.5 minutes not running. I'm not even sure you could fill that time with reloading.


This reminded me that I forgot to include the biopics passive skills in my calculations. Either way it will effect the Amarr scout more than the rest, so it would've only exaggerated my point.

As far as speed goesGǪ The suit has 4 low slotsGǪ Use them.

+100% Stamina and Stamina regen < 25%Profile dampening (over kill much?by this logic it's gal scout or go home)
+100% Stamina and Stamina regen < 25% Scan Radius (all scouts are getting a range buff to 20m base.s GG min scout)
+100% Stamina and Stamina regen < 25% NK Damage (lol?)
+100% Stamina and Stamina regen < 25% Hacking speed (on a scout? ROFL. lets make the weakest suit type sit still with a blinking light over his head. no thankyou)
+100% Stamina and Stamina regen < 25% Scan precision (good for what? hunting other scouts/gimped assaults?)

GOT IT?
.

because galente scout > minmatar assault


higher ehp
faster run speed
longer run duration
higher strafe speed
can carry the same load out of weapons and equipment
has faster shield recovery and shorter depletion

+100% Stamina and Stamina regen < 25%Profile dampening (over kill much?by this logic it's gal scout or go home)
+100% Stamina and Stamina regen < 25% Scan Radius (all scouts are getting a range buff to 20m base.s GG min scout)
+100% Stamina and Stamina regen < 25% NK Damage (lol?)
+100% Stamina and Stamina regen < 25% Hacking speed (on a scout? ROFL. lets make the weakest suit type sit still with a blinking light over his head. no thankyou)
+100% Stamina and Stamina regen < 25% Scan precision (good for what? hunting other scouts/gimped assaults?)

GOT IT?
.

Maybe wait until the suit is released before trying to change currently existing suits?

Anyway, this is pretty ridiculous to say. Consider the advantages of the minmatar assault (M) vs. the amarr scout (A)GǪ


M > A:
EHP by 35
Slots by 1
Speed by 0.05 m/s
CPU by 10
Melee by 30
Armor repair rate 1hp/s

A > M:
Equipment by 1
Shield rechange by 12 hp/s
S.R. Delay by 2 seconds
D.S.R. Delay by 4 seconds
Scan Range by 10m
Scan Profile by 15
Scan Precision by 10
Stamina by 50
Stamina Recovery by 20

I've chosen not to include role bonuses for simplicity, as I was pretty sure my point was made already by the above comparison.

Take note that not only are the M advantages less important/practical (melee, 1hp/s, speed, etc.), they are also extremely small improvements from the amarr suit. If you take a look at some of the A advantages, I'd argue that just about all of these are more important and I wouldn't trade any of them for anything in the M > A column. They are also clearly much higher increases (sometimes even doubled that of the minmatar suit).

This being said, I don't see how someone in their right mind would be upset over a 0.05 m/s speed advantage given to the minmatar assault considering the massive advantages given to the amarr scout.

I know the currently known Amarr scout bonus seems week but CCP alreday acknowledged that so we have to see what will happen here.