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Ivan Avogadro
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Posted - 2014.02.06 21:10:00 -
[1] - Quote
The Amarr Scout is easily the worst Scout suit by a wide margin right now. Just looking at the stats, it has no niche in the scout world, period.
Cal and Gal scouts emphasize EWAR. Min Scout emphasizes Biotics. Amarr was supposed to emphasize Biotics, by the look of it, but failed. They can't be greased lightning with the highest EHP, but they also can't be EWAR themed assaults. They get to run farther, but much more slowly. Their racial ability is the only one of the 4 that doesn't actually beat the power of a STD mod (all other 3 get a racial power on par with a Complex mod).
And here is a fun trick: take a build with an Amarr scout. I can almost guarantee you it will fit the Gal scout easier. Gal has more PG, and scouts tend to not be CPU constrained. So you can make an Amarr "battle scout" and turn it into a faster, stealthier Gal scout that ALSO has latent armor repair. The only thing the Amarr Scout actually gets is ~40 EHP (depending on your skills).
Run either a battle themed Gal Scout, or a paper thin Min Assault. Both will outperform the Amarr Scout. |
Ivan Avogadro
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Test Alliance Please Ignore
719
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Posted - 2014.02.06 21:57:00 -
[2] - Quote
@Monkey MAC: I completely agree with you that there is no problem with the fastest assault being faster than the slowest scout. A little overlap is fine. But the fast assault also gets more EHP. So what is the Amarr Scout's role if they are simultaneously slower and weaker? You talk about how the Scout is supposed to be the slowest but strongest of it's class, but Scouts don't exist in a vacuum on the battlefield. If you want something stronger and slower, you should pick the Min Assault. There is no reason to choose the Amarr Scout. It needs to have a reason to exist.
Either push the speed faster than the Min Assault OR give it more EHP. If Amarr Scouts really are supposed to be brick tanks, then they better have a reason for being that slow. If all the Min suits are going to be a full frame size faster than the Amarr, they need to be a full frame size weaker too. |
Ivan Avogadro
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Test Alliance Please Ignore
721
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Posted - 2014.02.06 22:19:00 -
[3] - Quote
Zeylon, but what role is left for the Amarr Scout now?
Cal - range (EWAR) and passive precision (EWAR)
Gal - range (EWAR) and dampening (EWAR)
Min - nova knives (melee, Biotics-ish), speed (Biotics), and hacking
Am - stamina and stamina regen (Biotics)
Am needs something in the scout wheelhouse, but everything in Biotics and EWAR is taken. Unless you give them a straight melee bonus and turn them punch suits. You could give them the same range bonus that Cal and Gal get, leave the Min scout out in the cold as the least EWAR-y scout, but that dilutes down the war that the two nemeses have going.
Min gets a bonus to fitting a weapon (offense). You could give them a bonus to fitting plates (defense, opposite their nemesis) but that would be too close to tanking them into assaults.
The uplink runner idea is the only scouty one left, if they can carry extra uplinks or hives per equip slot. Bump up their stamina too. |
Ivan Avogadro
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Test Alliance Please Ignore
726
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Posted - 2014.02.07 20:28:00 -
[4] - Quote
@Toby Flenderson:
This is in response to your % comparison on page 5. I don't care about all the flaming war in between, but it is disingenuous to compare the bonuses by percentage, because (A) a single module can overtake that gap and (B) 25% dampening bonus is better, in most everyone's opinion, than 66% stamina. The only advantage of the Amarr bonus is it can reach higher Stamina than any other scout, but at the expense of all 4 low mods. If the Amarr only goes 3 cardiac regs, then any of scout can overtake it.
A better way to compare suits it how easily they can both reach the same build. Assume all lvl 5 skills (core biotics, core armor, profile dampening, scan radius, cardiac regulation, armor repair, etc...)
Amarr (no mods)
EHP 287.5
Speed 5.51
Scan Distance33
Scan Profile 28.4
Armor Rep 0
Stamina 295
Stam Recovery 52.5
Gallente (no mods)
EHP 250
Speed 5.72
Scan Distance 41.3
Scan Profile 21.1
Armor Rep 3
Stamina 210
Stam Recovery 31.5
Obviously, there are pros and cons to each. But the strength of the cardiac reg module (compared to the Amarr bonus), the lack of overwhelming difference in EHP, and the Gallente passive armor rep all make is significantly easier to equalize the Gal to a generic Amarr build than to do the reverse. Amarr needs at LEAST 1 complex mod, 1 enhanced mod, and 1 basic mod all in low slots to replicate the Gal bonuses. The Gal needs only 1 enhanced mod and 1 basic mod to not only replicate the Amarr bonuses but to exceed them.
Amarr (1x Complex Dampener, 1 Enhanced Armor Rep, 1 Basic Range Amplifier)
EHP 287.5
Speed 5.51
Scan Distance 41.3
Scan Profile 21.2
Armor Rep 3
Stamina 295
Stam Recovery 52.5
Gallente (1x Basic Armor, 1x Enhanced Cardiac Regulator)
EHP 315
Speed 5.68
Scan Distance 41.3
Scan Profile 21.1
Armor Rep 3
Stamina 378
Stam Recovery 56.7
The Amarr build costs 83 CPU, 5 PG, and 3 low slots. The Gallente build costs 19 CPU, 6 PG, and 2 low slots. They have identical Scan Distance, Scan Profile, and Armor Reps, with nearly identical Stamina Recovery. But the Gallente has more EHP, more base Stamina, and more speed despite the plate. All for much much cheaper. And honestly, I would have gotten the builds closer together if I could have, but the smaller modules on the Gallente were already blowing away the Amarr.
All I did was match the bonuses of the other race. I didn't come up with a Gallente preferential build for this. To match the Amarr suit is pitifully easy, because the bonuses are so low. To match the Gallente is abusively hard, because they bonuses make it unique and hard to mimic.
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Ivan Avogadro
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Test Alliance Please Ignore
733
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Posted - 2014.02.08 00:09:00 -
[5] - Quote
I have another way to look at your "data" Toby. Yes, Amarr get 66% bonus to Stamina while Gallente get a meager 25% bonus to dampening. But you can't just compare percentages of different things together to say which one is bigger. 25% of Texas is substantially larger than 66% of Rhode Island. You need to have a conversion in order to compare different things like this.
So how does Stamina + Stamina Regen compare to Profile Dampening + Scan Radius? Which suit is Texas and which suit is Rhode Island?
Well, luckily CCP has given us the conversion. They gave us modules that are supposedly balanced with the game economy, so we know exactly how much CCP values 1% of Stamina and how much the value 1% Profile.
AMARR BONUS:
1x Complex Cardiac Regulator = 100% Stamina + 100% Stamina Regen Rate = 3150 ISK
1% Stamina and 1% Stamina Regen = 31.5 ISK
Amarr Bonus = 25% Stamina + 25% Stamina Regen = 25 x 31.5 = 787.5 ISK
GALLENTE BONUS
Complex Profile Dampener = 45% Profile Reduction = 3615 ISK
1% Profile Reduction = 80 ISK
Complex Range Amplifier = 25% Radius Increase = 3420 ISK
1% Radius Increase = 136.8 ISK
Gallente Bonus = 25% Profile Reduction + 25% Radius Increase = 25 * 80 + 25 * 136 = 5428.3 ISK
Holy crap! The Gallente bonus, when directly compared to the Amarr bonus, costs 689% more ISK! Just by running the Gal Scout, you get 689% more bonus FOR FREE. Who in their right mind would choose the Amarr scout? Can you actually still argue that this racial ability is worthwhile? |
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