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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
God Hates Lags
Fatal Absolution
Covert Intervention
782
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Posted - 2014.01.29 18:32:00 -
[1] - Quote
As of this time, every single district in Molden Heath has been locked. PC as of now is over for the time being.
All CCP has to do to end this shutdown is hot fix PC so that clone packs are not refunded if no one shows up to a battle. That's all. No complicated changes, no revamps, just this one simple fix.
Just wanted to put this up here so people who are not in PC or do not check the war room are aware of it. With hope CCP should be able to fix this fairly quickly.
Doubles ISK
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Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star.
EoN.
2328
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 18:39:00 -
[2] - Quote
Meh
Intelligence is OP
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Alaika Arbosa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc.
Interstellar Murder of Crows
1377
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 18:41:00 -
[3] - Quote
They should hotfix removing it and all of the isk it has generated.
Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives
Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten
Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta
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Ares 514
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
363
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Posted - 2014.01.29 18:45:00 -
[4] - Quote
They should also massively reduce ISK generation on districts with that hotfix and reduce the cost of clone packs! :)
Hopefully they fix this, it's not like it's been going on for months and months and months... oh, wait, it has. I do hope this forces the issue though.
Please fix the mic bubble bug...
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BobThe 844-1 CakeMan
Murder Cakes Of Doom
1549
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 18:46:00 -
[5] - Quote
really cool.
PC was lame and laggy anyway.
Main - BobThe843CakeMan
Ringing for PC for a price, msg for details.
Prices are based on who ur facing and how i feel.
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Maken Tosch
Edimmu Warfighters
Gallente Federation
6643
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 18:48:00 -
[6] - Quote
Definitely needs an overhaul.
Dedicated Scout // Ninja Knifer
CLOSED BETA VETERAN SINCE REPLICATION BUILD
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Varjac Theobroma Montenegro
Omega Elite Mercs INC.
98
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 18:49:00 -
[7] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Meh
As long as isk earned from PC doesn't stomp my ass all over the place then I really don't care. They can make 500 mil a day, as long as their inventory is separate from public domain ( public match suit inventory and PC match suit inventory, same dual inventory for vehicles too).
FAME
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TheAmazing FlyingPig
Crux Special Tasks Group
Gallente Federation
5541
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 18:53:00 -
[8] - Quote
I remember they said that they would hotfix the LR back to relevancy, then came back a few days later saying that the LR was something something unreal engine something and would require going through QA, meaning it wasn't happening.
I wouldn't be surprised if this was the case here, too.
Never forget
May 14, 2013: Beta 2.0
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Alaika Arbosa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc.
Interstellar Murder of Crows
1380
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 18:53:00 -
[9] - Quote
Varjac Theobroma Montenegro wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Meh As long as isk earned from PC doesn't stomp my ass all over the place then I really don't care. They can make 500 mil a day, as long as their inventory is separate from public domain ( public match suit inventory and PC match suit inventory, same dual inventory for vehicles too).
The only thing that will do is make the barrier to PC entry even more insurmountable and force anyone who wants in to become a renter or try the normal way and ragequit since there would be no way that they could compete on a financial level without having a full 1300 man corp grinding for several hours per day.
Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives
Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten
Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta
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Leadfoot10
Molon Labe.
Public Disorder.
337
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 18:57:00 -
[10] - Quote
PC has been broken for quite some time. Now that the lag has been fixed, locking has virtually stopped PC battles for all except the extremely patient.
FIX PC!!!!
BRING BACK CORP BATTLES!!!
Please. :) |
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Varjac Theobroma Montenegro
Omega Elite Mercs INC.
98
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 18:57:00 -
[11] - Quote
Alaika Arbosa wrote:Varjac Theobroma Montenegro wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Meh As long as isk earned from PC doesn't stomp my ass all over the place then I really don't care. They can make 500 mil a day, as long as their inventory is separate from public domain ( public match suit inventory and PC match suit inventory, same dual inventory for vehicles too). The only thing that will do is make the barrier to PC entry even more insurmountable and force anyone who wants in to become a renter or try the normal way and ragequit since there would be no way that they could compete on a financial level without having a full 1300 man corp grinding for several hours per day.
Well, could PC money be kept out and have separate inventory while allowing public funds to enter PC? The idea is to keep PC elements out of pubs.
FAME
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Spectral Clone
Dust2Dust.
Top Men.
1114
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 19:00:00 -
[12] - Quote
Bye PC, you wont be missed.
Prepare for 1.8: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPhISgw3I2w
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ANON Cerberus
Tiny Toons
214
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 19:06:00 -
[13] - Quote
CCP please fix the game. CCP please gives us basic options on the level of play.
All of these super rich full proto corps are going to ruin the game experience of pretty much the other 90% of the casual playerbase.
Dont remove anything CCP we just ask for options.
Oh and also REMOVE AIM ASSIST and fix KB/M or just abandon support for KB/M because as much fun as I have sometimes, its not fun using a gimped control system that you said you would support from day 1 (virtually) |
Alaika Arbosa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc.
Interstellar Murder of Crows
1382
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 19:23:00 -
[14] - Quote
Varjac Theobroma Montenegro wrote:Alaika Arbosa wrote:Varjac Theobroma Montenegro wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Meh As long as isk earned from PC doesn't stomp my ass all over the place then I really don't care. They can make 500 mil a day, as long as their inventory is separate from public domain ( public match suit inventory and PC match suit inventory, same dual inventory for vehicles too). The only thing that will do is make the barrier to PC entry even more insurmountable and force anyone who wants in to become a renter or try the normal way and ragequit since there would be no way that they could compete on a financial level without having a full 1300 man corp grinding for several hours per day. Well, could PC money be kept out and have separate inventory while allowing public funds to enter PC? The idea is to keep PC elements out of pubs.
So, essentially freeze all PC income so that it is only something to have that looks nice on paper and has absolutely no bearing anywhere else?
In that case, why not just remove it entirely? If you are talking about only allowing PC funds to be used to fund PC, it comes back to the whole "can never compete on a financial level".
Total removal is the only way to go, this includes any remaining assets within inventories that were purchased with PC Isk as well as any and all PC Isk that is present in any wallet whether corporate or individual.
PC Alpha failed, remove the broken feature and all of the residual impact it has had before it causes other systems within the game to fail.
Excise the cancer before it can spread further and kill us.
Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives
Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten
Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta
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Spectral Clone
Dust2Dust.
Top Men.
1115
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 19:25:00 -
[15] - Quote
Jita-like riots are finally happening!!!!
Enough is enough CCP.
Prepare for 1.8: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPhISgw3I2w
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calisk galern
BurgezzE.T.F
Public Disorder.
1690
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 19:31:00 -
[16] - Quote
everyone discussed shutting down districts when pc was established originally but the math worked out that it owuld not be profitable.
then they reduced the cost of clone packs and made it more profitable, leading ot the situation we have now.
it's not hard to make this not profitable. |
Varjac Theobroma Montenegro
Omega Elite Mercs INC.
101
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 19:33:00 -
[17] - Quote
Alaika Arbosa wrote:
So, essentially freeze all PC income so that it is only something to have that looks nice on paper and has absolutely no bearing anywhere else?
In that case, why not just remove it entirely? If you are talking about only allowing PC funds to be used to fund PC, it comes back to the whole "can never compete on a financial level".
Total removal is the only way to go, this includes any remaining assets within inventories that were purchased with PC Isk as well as any and all PC Isk that is present in any wallet whether corporate or individual.
PC Alpha failed, remove the broken feature and all of the residual impact it has had before it causes other systems within the game to fail.
Excise the cancer before it can spread further and kill us.
No, choice of funds spent in PC matters, making economical choices has an impact, so does player suit costs and such. The issue was seeing money designed for PC meeting pub players with no such financial backing. As far as accumulated player money, either remove funds above a 100 million (ie if you had 150 mil, you can only keep the 100) and issue the remainder to a separate CEO account or leave it as it stands with the new isk rules in place.
If a player saves, he can ascend 100 mil, I am quite a saver myself and my one go over that. The point is to differentiate between isk generating systems.
FAME
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ReGnYuM
Escrow Removal and Acquisition
1990
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 19:40:00 -
[18] - Quote
Varjac Theobroma Montenegro wrote:Alaika Arbosa wrote:
So, essentially freeze all PC income so that it is only something to have that looks nice on paper and has absolutely no bearing anywhere else?
In that case, why not just remove it entirely? If you are talking about only allowing PC funds to be used to fund PC, it comes back to the whole "can never compete on a financial level".
Total removal is the only way to go, this includes any remaining assets within inventories that were purchased with PC Isk as well as any and all PC Isk that is present in any wallet whether corporate or individual.
PC Alpha failed, remove the broken feature and all of the residual impact it has had before it causes other systems within the game to fail.
Excise the cancer before it can spread further and kill us.
No, choice of funds spent in PC matters, making economical choices has an impact, so does player suit costs and such. The issue was seeing money designed for PC meeting pub players with no such financial backing. As far as accumulated player money, either remove funds above a 100 million (ie if you had 150 mil, you can only keep the 100) and issue the remainder to a separate CEO account or leave it as it stands with the new isk rules in place. If a player saves, he can ascend 100 mil, I am quite a saver myself and my one go over that. The point is to differentiate between isk generating systems.
Just try to take my billions space commy
Official Imperfect Title: Supreme Leader of the Endless Sunset
I Slay, for thy Empress
Do you even PC... Brah
|
Alaika Arbosa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc.
Interstellar Murder of Crows
1386
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 19:41:00 -
[19] - Quote
Varjac Theobroma Montenegro wrote:Alaika Arbosa wrote:
So, essentially freeze all PC income so that it is only something to have that looks nice on paper and has absolutely no bearing anywhere else?
In that case, why not just remove it entirely? If you are talking about only allowing PC funds to be used to fund PC, it comes back to the whole "can never compete on a financial level".
Total removal is the only way to go, this includes any remaining assets within inventories that were purchased with PC Isk as well as any and all PC Isk that is present in any wallet whether corporate or individual.
PC Alpha failed, remove the broken feature and all of the residual impact it has had before it causes other systems within the game to fail.
Excise the cancer before it can spread further and kill us.
No, choice of funds spent in PC matters, making economical choices has an impact, so does player suit costs and such. The issue was seeing money designed for PC meeting pub players with no such financial backing. As far as accumulated player money, either remove funds above a 100 million (ie if you had 150 mil, you can only keep the 100) and issue the remainder to a separate CEO account or leave it as it stands with the new isk rules in place. If a player saves, he can ascend 100 mil, I am quite a saver myself and my one go over that. The point is to differentiate between isk generating systems.
Even if that Isk isn't allowed to be used to fund pubstomping, it will lead to the same outcome for those who are new to PC and trying to break into it. They will effectively be paying to get pubstomped. There is a massive difference between a fiscally responsible FW/pub player and someone funded through PC.
In the first case, you make wise choices and earn your Isk battle to battle.
In the second case, you make Isk no matter what, unless of course you are a blind, deaf quadriplegic with thalidomide arms. AFAIK, they change the payout scheme in PC to make it more actively generated, though they never did anything about the beginning of PC where you got Isk simply because you had a District and sat with your thumb up your ass.
Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives
Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten
Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta
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Alaika Arbosa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc.
Interstellar Murder of Crows
1386
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 19:42:00 -
[20] - Quote
ReGnYuM wrote:Varjac Theobroma Montenegro wrote:Alaika Arbosa wrote:
So, essentially freeze all PC income so that it is only something to have that looks nice on paper and has absolutely no bearing anywhere else?
In that case, why not just remove it entirely? If you are talking about only allowing PC funds to be used to fund PC, it comes back to the whole "can never compete on a financial level".
Total removal is the only way to go, this includes any remaining assets within inventories that were purchased with PC Isk as well as any and all PC Isk that is present in any wallet whether corporate or individual.
PC Alpha failed, remove the broken feature and all of the residual impact it has had before it causes other systems within the game to fail.
Excise the cancer before it can spread further and kill us.
No, choice of funds spent in PC matters, making economical choices has an impact, so does player suit costs and such. The issue was seeing money designed for PC meeting pub players with no such financial backing. As far as accumulated player money, either remove funds above a 100 million (ie if you had 150 mil, you can only keep the 100) and issue the remainder to a separate CEO account or leave it as it stands with the new isk rules in place. If a player saves, he can ascend 100 mil, I am quite a saver myself and my one go over that. The point is to differentiate between isk generating systems. Just try to take my billions space commy
We wouldn't need to, CCP would.
If that causes you to quit, oh well......
Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives
Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten
Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta
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Rynoceros
Rise Of Old Dudes
2287
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 19:44:00 -
[21] - Quote
Natalie Portman.
|
Leither Yiltron
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
846
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 19:58:00 -
[22] - Quote
God Hates Lags wrote:As of this time, every single district in Molden Heath has been locked. PC as of now is over for the time being.
All CCP has to do to end this shutdown is hot fix PC so that clone packs are not refunded if no one shows up to a battle. That's all. No complicated changes, no revamps, just this one simple fix.
Just wanted to put this up here so people who are not in PC or do not check the war room are aware of it. With hope CCP should be able to fix this fairly quickly.
And then people will join with one member on both sides of the battle. It's a tad more complicated than that. xD
ROFL PC Coordinator
Have a pony
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ReGnYuM
Escrow Removal and Acquisition
1991
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 20:12:00 -
[23] - Quote
Alaika Arbosa wrote:ReGnYuM wrote:Varjac Theobroma Montenegro wrote:Alaika Arbosa wrote:
So, essentially freeze all PC income so that it is only something to have that looks nice on paper and has absolutely no bearing anywhere else?
In that case, why not just remove it entirely? If you are talking about only allowing PC funds to be used to fund PC, it comes back to the whole "can never compete on a financial level".
Total removal is the only way to go, this includes any remaining assets within inventories that were purchased with PC Isk as well as any and all PC Isk that is present in any wallet whether corporate or individual.
PC Alpha failed, remove the broken feature and all of the residual impact it has had before it causes other systems within the game to fail.
Excise the cancer before it can spread further and kill us.
No, choice of funds spent in PC matters, making economical choices has an impact, so does player suit costs and such. The issue was seeing money designed for PC meeting pub players with no such financial backing. As far as accumulated player money, either remove funds above a 100 million (ie if you had 150 mil, you can only keep the 100) and issue the remainder to a separate CEO account or leave it as it stands with the new isk rules in place. If a player saves, he can ascend 100 mil, I am quite a saver myself and my one go over that. The point is to differentiate between isk generating systems. Just try to take my billions space commy We wouldn't need to, CCP would. If that causes you to quit, oh well......
1. It would never happen Space Commy goes against CCP's Golden Rule
2. I had half a bill before ever setting foot in PC.
FYI If you need cash you can always lick/polish my virtual boots.
Official Imperfect Title: Supreme Leader of the Endless Sunset
I Slay, for thy Empress
Do you even PC... Brah
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Operative 1171 Aajli
Bragian Order
Amarr Empire
1109
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 20:15:00 -
[24] - Quote
I see no point in PC. It is not the link to EVE that matters or really affects anything. It is a crap stopgap that feeds the console kiddie epeen.
Rommel, you magnificent bastard, I read your book!
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CUBS UNbanned Alt
162
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Posted - 2014.01.29 20:16:00 -
[25] - Quote
ReGnYuM wrote:Alaika Arbosa wrote:ReGnYuM wrote:Varjac Theobroma Montenegro wrote:Alaika Arbosa wrote:
So, essentially freeze all PC income so that it is only something to have that looks nice on paper and has absolutely no bearing anywhere else?
In that case, why not just remove it entirely? If you are talking about only allowing PC funds to be used to fund PC, it comes back to the whole "can never compete on a financial level".
Total removal is the only way to go, this includes any remaining assets within inventories that were purchased with PC Isk as well as any and all PC Isk that is present in any wallet whether corporate or individual.
PC Alpha failed, remove the broken feature and all of the residual impact it has had before it causes other systems within the game to fail.
Excise the cancer before it can spread further and kill us.
No, choice of funds spent in PC matters, making economical choices has an impact, so does player suit costs and such. The issue was seeing money designed for PC meeting pub players with no such financial backing. As far as accumulated player money, either remove funds above a 100 million (ie if you had 150 mil, you can only keep the 100) and issue the remainder to a separate CEO account or leave it as it stands with the new isk rules in place. If a player saves, he can ascend 100 mil, I am quite a saver myself and my one go over that. The point is to differentiate between isk generating systems. Just try to take my billions space commy We wouldn't need to, CCP would. If that causes you to quit, oh well...... 1. It would never happen Space Commy goes against CCP's Golden Rule 2. I had half a bill before ever setting foot in PC. FYI If you need cash you can always lick/polish my virtual boots.
ah 1 of the underprivileged going in eh?
half a bil after the respec? I guess that's not pitiful or anything...
I guess
Don't drink the koolaid... Rampage made it from scratch and didn't wash his hands
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CCP Logibro
C C P
C C P Alliance
4569
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Posted - 2014.01.29 20:16:00 -
[26] - Quote
It's something we're aware of, and we're working on fixing it. Can't give a date as Chinese New Year means most of Shanghai is on holidays starting about now.
CCP Logibro // EVE Universe Community Team // Distributor of Nanites // Patron Saint of Logistics
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ReGnYuM
Escrow Removal and Acquisition
1991
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 20:20:00 -
[27] - Quote
CCP Logibro wrote:It's something we're aware of, and we're working on fixing it. Can't give a date as Chinese New Year means most of Shanghai is on holidays starting about now.
Ah Richer get Richer
...and the poor just complain moar 
Official Imperfect Title: Supreme Leader of the Endless Sunset
I Slay, for thy Empress
Do you even PC... Brah
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Ares 514
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
367
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 20:24:00 -
[28] - Quote
CCP Logibro wrote:It's something we're aware of, and we're working on fixing it. Can't give a date as Chinese New Year means most of Shanghai is on holidays starting about now.
But they got Xmas too! I wish i got both. I really hope you guys finally do something.
Please fix the mic bubble bug...
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stlcarlos989
SVER True Blood
Public Disorder.
1051
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 20:26:00 -
[29] - Quote
CCP Logibro wrote:It's something we're aware of, and we're working on fixing it. Can't give a date as Chinese New Year means most of Shanghai is on holidays starting about now.
How difficult is it to stop refunding clone packs? I'm not a programmer but that seems like something that could easily be hot fixed.
STB Director, #1 in Warpoints E3 Closed Beta Build, Water Pipe Aficionado
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BAD FURRY
SVER True Blood
Public Disorder.
358
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 20:38:00 -
[30] - Quote
CCP Logibro wrote:It's something we're aware of, and we're working on fixing it. Can't give a date as Chinese New Year means most of Shanghai is on holidays starting about now.
O you mean your guys are still alive over there i was thinking you all died from the Smog !
well now hows it feel for them to know there in the real world version of the game I AM ALIVE ?
Yes i am a Undead Hell Wolf ... nice to meat you!
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Alaika Arbosa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc.
Interstellar Murder of Crows
1390
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 20:49:00 -
[31] - Quote
ReGnYuM wrote:Alaika Arbosa wrote:ReGnYuM wrote:Varjac Theobroma Montenegro wrote:Alaika Arbosa wrote:
So, essentially freeze all PC income so that it is only something to have that looks nice on paper and has absolutely no bearing anywhere else?
In that case, why not just remove it entirely? If you are talking about only allowing PC funds to be used to fund PC, it comes back to the whole "can never compete on a financial level".
Total removal is the only way to go, this includes any remaining assets within inventories that were purchased with PC Isk as well as any and all PC Isk that is present in any wallet whether corporate or individual.
PC Alpha failed, remove the broken feature and all of the residual impact it has had before it causes other systems within the game to fail.
Excise the cancer before it can spread further and kill us.
No, choice of funds spent in PC matters, making economical choices has an impact, so does player suit costs and such. The issue was seeing money designed for PC meeting pub players with no such financial backing. As far as accumulated player money, either remove funds above a 100 million (ie if you had 150 mil, you can only keep the 100) and issue the remainder to a separate CEO account or leave it as it stands with the new isk rules in place. If a player saves, he can ascend 100 mil, I am quite a saver myself and my one go over that. The point is to differentiate between isk generating systems. Just try to take my billions space commy We wouldn't need to, CCP would. If that causes you to quit, oh well...... 1. It would never happen Space Commy goes against CCP's Golden Rule 2. I had half a bill before ever setting foot in PC. FYI If you need cash you can always lick/polish my virtual boots.
Please, continue to illustrate why you'll be even less missed than the cancer that is PC when you finally quit trolling and move onto the next game you want to kill.
Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives
Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten
Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta
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Sgt Kirk
Fatal Absolution
Covert Intervention
4225
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 20:50:00 -
[32] - Quote
CCP Logibro wrote:It's something we're aware of, and we're working on fixing it. Can't give a date as Chinese New Year means most of Shanghai is on holidays starting about now.
Why is it that whenever I here a Dev speak of CCP Shanghai they are always on vacation.
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Ares 514
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
368
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Posted - 2014.01.29 20:52:00 -
[33] - Quote
CCP Logibro wrote:It's something we're aware of, and we're working on fixing it. Can't give a date as Chinese New Year means most of Shanghai is on holidays starting about now.
I can't help it. I think the standard line of we are aware of it is just ridiculous. Come on guys, this has been going on forever. You might not want a bandaid but maybe it's time to call one guy back from holidays and have him fix it. Seems like the correct punishment for having left it for so long :)
Please fix the mic bubble bug...
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Alaika Arbosa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc.
Interstellar Murder of Crows
1390
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 20:55:00 -
[34] - Quote
Ares 514 wrote:CCP Logibro wrote:It's something we're aware of, and we're working on fixing it. Can't give a date as Chinese New Year means most of Shanghai is on holidays starting about now. I can't help it. I think the standard line of we are aware of it is just ridiculous. Come on guys, this has been going on forever. You might not want a bandaid but maybe it's time to call one guy back from holidays and have him fix it. Seems like the correct punishment for having left it for so long :)
Didn't we tell them it was broken before it was even officially released and yet they still insisted on releasing the broken passive faucet.
Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives
Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten
Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta
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ReGnYuM
Escrow Removal and Acquisition
1992
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 21:01:00 -
[35] - Quote
Alaika Arbosa wrote:ReGnYuM wrote:Alaika Arbosa wrote:Varjac Theobroma Montenegro wrote:Alaika Arbosa wrote:
So, essentially freeze all PC income so that it is only something to have that looks nice on paper and has absolutely no bearing anywhere else?
In that case, why not just remove it entirely? If you are talking about only allowing PC funds to be used to fund PC, it comes back to the whole "can never compete on a financial level".
Total removal is the only way to go, this includes any remaining assets within inventories that were purchased with PC Isk as well as any and all PC Isk that is present in any wallet whether corporate or individual.
PC Alpha failed, remove the broken feature and all of the residual impact it has had before it causes other systems within the game to fail.
Excise the cancer before it can spread further and kill us.
No, choice of funds spent in PC matters, making economical choices has an impact, so does player suit costs and such. The issue was seeing money designed for PC meeting pub players with no such financial backing. As far as accumulated player money, either remove funds above a 100 million (ie if you had 150 mil, you can only keep the 100) and issue the remainder to a separate CEO account or leave it as it stands with the new isk rules in place. If a player saves, he can ascend 100 mil, I am quite a saver myself and my one go over that. The point is to differentiate between isk generating systems. Just try to take my billions space commy We wouldn't need to, CCP would. If that causes you to quit, oh well...... 1. It would never happen Space Commy goes against CCP's Golden Rule 2. I had half a bill before ever setting foot in PC. FYI If you need cash you can always lick/polish my virtual boots.
Please, continue to illustrate why you'll be even less missed than the cancer that is PC when you finally quit trolling and move onto the next game you want to kill.[/quote]
Correct me if I am wrong, but I am getting a real high school drama vibe from you...
You know, I am going mask my envy with jealousy.
Anyways, how did I ruin/kill the game. I thought New Eden was about getting rich
ISK = Power... NO?
Official Imperfect Title: Supreme Leader of the Endless Sunset
I Slay, for thy Empress
Do you even PC... Brah
|
ANON Cerberus
Tiny Toons
217
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 21:07:00 -
[36] - Quote
DUST 514 - can be fun, but this game is totally broken! CCP you need to get the plasters out!
People with so much isk they dont even have to EVER worry. Do you still wonder why noobs keep quitting?
Remove the scanners , remove aim assist. Let people actually aim for themselves instead of this ridiculous bullet magnetiser aimbot. |
Sgt Kirk
Fatal Absolution
Covert Intervention
4225
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 21:08:00 -
[37] - Quote
ReGnYuM wrote:
ISK = Power... NO?
ISK is also a good way to get laid by a Caldari woman.
They'll do anything for money....anything. |
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
10437
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 21:09:00 -
[38] - Quote
Alaika Arbosa wrote:FYI If you need cash you can always lick/polish my virtual boots.
Do you have a preference to if I start with the right, or the left?
Videos / Fiction
Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
|
Patrick57
Fatal Absolution
Covert Intervention
4417
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 21:16:00 -
[39] - Quote
Alaika Arbosa wrote:They should hotfix removing it and all of the isk it has generated.
What exactly is so bad about districts generating so much ISK?
PC is expensive, I lose ISK every PC I play in (unless I'm ringing). People who play PC and can hold their districts deserve the money. That is why people have a problem with locking districts and that's why locking should not generate any money.
Also, this thread was started by someone in Fatal Absolution, go figure!!!
Winner of at least 11 King ThunderBolt hate videos :D
|
Alaika Arbosa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc.
Interstellar Murder of Crows
1392
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 21:18:00 -
[40] - Quote
Actually, you're wrong.
New Eden is all about being an antisocial capitalist sociopath filled with impotent rage until you can gather X(X+X) allies together so you can blob the cause of your impotent rage. X == the number of allies that the source of your impotent rage has.
FYI, zerg rush would be the translation of blob that you would understand.
Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives
Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten
Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta
|
|
|
Appia Vibbia
Ancient Exiles.
Renegade Alliance
849
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 21:19:00 -
[41] - Quote
mmm, 2 weeks of locked districts. an extra 12-24mill a district from this. Imma make so much ISK before CCP Shanghai comes back from their chinese new year break.
Appia Vibbia for CPM1
[email protected]
|
commando biffle
Shadow Company HQ
11
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 21:27:00 -
[42] - Quote
CCP Logibro wrote:It's something we're aware of, and we're working on fixing it. Can't give a date as Chinese New Year means most of Shanghai is on holidays starting about now.
again? really? |
Darken-Soul
BIG BAD W0LVES
194
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 21:30:00 -
[43] - Quote
Its been shut down for most Dust players anyway. who gives a rats ass?
I am the real Darken
|
Arkena Wyrnspire
Fatal Absolution
Covert Intervention
8670
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 21:32:00 -
[44] - Quote
Well, you know.
At least we got a dev response on an issue.
I think that alone is worth a stunned silence and perhaps a round of applause.
ZATARA CARRIES US ALL
Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution
MAG Raven
|
CELTIC TARON
Dem Durrty Boyz
Renegade Alliance
22
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 22:09:00 -
[45] - Quote
Guess the goal of AE came to light at least a dev posted :p maybe now CCP will do something about it although I won't hold my breath.
*Fix coming Soon TM* (2014 comes and goes and still will be waiting lol)
PC Tanker AND PROUD! Especially When I Shove A Missile Up Your Arse!
Yes Militia need adjusted
Long Live Tanks :)
|
steadyhand amarr
Bragian Order
Amarr Empire
2218
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 22:12:00 -
[46] - Quote
CCP Logibro wrote:It's something we're aware of, and we're working on fixing it. Can't give a date as Chinese New Year means most of Shanghai is on holidays starting about now.
i do love how loads of corps are now getting free isk giving them a huge advantage in the long run and CCP is like meh holiday wwwhooo. PC should have been shut down months ago when it was clear it was not working at intended just start over. shift style conquest systems just dont work i have never seen a working example yet. you just have to live with the evil of 24/7 systems and work rewards around the small time you can hold onto a peace of land
"i dont care about you or your goals, just show me the dam isk"
winner of EU squad cup
GOGO power rangers
|
Criteria Shipment
Blood Unit 13
Zero-Day
728
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 22:14:00 -
[47] - Quote
Sgt Kirk wrote:CCP Logibro wrote:It's something we're aware of, and we're working on fixing it. Can't give a date as Chinese New Year means most of Shanghai is on holidays starting about now. Why is it that whenever I here a Dev speak of CCP Shanghai they are always on vacation.
GRAMMAR ***** ATTAAAAAAAACK.... hear*
Goodbye, world!
(püú-ÿ+í-ÿ-é)
|
bamboo x
Eternal Beings
Proficiency V.
62
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 22:21:00 -
[48] - Quote
My corp's district isn't locked.
Whatchu talkin bout Willis? |
ScottyTheMatchMaking AI
Osmon Surveillance
Caldari State
27
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 22:25:00 -
[49] - Quote
oh now that over 60% of PC is locked CCP now all the sudden blue tags a thread about PC. by the way ill be back to ruin matchmaking. |
Skihids
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
2775
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 22:47:00 -
[50] - Quote
Don't they have an economist who would confirm what the forum has pointed out about ISK farming?
What's the point of paying an economist if you don't use him? |
|
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Darken-Soul
BIG BAD W0LVES
201
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 22:51:00 -
[51] - Quote
Skihids wrote:Don't they have an economist who would confirm what the forum has pointed out about ISK farming?
What's the point of paying an economist if you don't use him?
They might use him, you dont know if they do. If he was working as intended we would have an economy. they must be using him in different ways. sick
I am the real Darken
|
Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
Public Disorder.
2662
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 22:58:00 -
[52] - Quote
calisk galern wrote:everyone discussed shutting down districts when pc was established originally but the math worked out that it owuld not be profitable.
then they reduced the cost of clone packs and made it more profitable, leading ot the situation we have now.
it's not hard to make this not profitable.
Actually I believe the current mechanics would make it more profitable if the clone packs were still 80 mil
ML Director
Eve Toon - Raylan Scott
|
CYRAX SERVIUS
Death Firm.
Canis Eliminatus Operatives
653
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 23:19:00 -
[53] - Quote
Sgt Kirk wrote:ReGnYuM wrote:
ISK = Power... NO?
ISK is also a good way to get laid by a Caldari woman. They'll do anything for money.... anything.
love them Caldari chicks!!!
CEO
Whiskey squad leader
Invictus Maneo~"I Remain Unvanquished"~
|
Darken-Soul
BIG BAD W0LVES
203
|
Posted - 2014.01.29 23:25:00 -
[54] - Quote
CYRAX SERVIUS wrote:Sgt Kirk wrote:ReGnYuM wrote:
ISK = Power... NO?
ISK is also a good way to get laid by a Caldari woman. They'll do anything for money.... anything. love them Caldari chicks!!!
Money=survival. evolution says chicks dig survival.
I am the real Darken
|
Marad''er
Ancient Exiles.
Renegade Alliance
747
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 00:06:00 -
[55] - Quote
234/245 districts are locked... Lol
GôÉGô¥GôÿGô£Gôö > GôÉGô¢Gô¢
Gÿà¿When will dust get better?Gÿà
Forum Warrior LV. 4 | pâÅpéñpâápü»tºüpü«µëôµÆâpéÆF¦ápüúpüªpüäpéï | PSN: I-NINJA-ALL-DAY
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
12767
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 00:26:00 -
[56] - Quote
If you have any creative solutions (as in within current rule sets) the CPM still have an open ear.
CPM knows this has been (and for a long while knew) a problem and are trying to work with CCP and the community on a favorable solution.
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist
\\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
|
Alaika Arbosa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc.
Interstellar Murder of Crows
1400
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 00:47:00 -
[57] - Quote
Patrick57 wrote:Alaika Arbosa wrote:They should hotfix removing it and all of the isk it has generated. What exactly is so bad about districts generating so much ISK? PC is expensive, I lose ISK every PC I play in (unless I'm ringing). People who play PC and can hold their districts deserve the money. That is why people have a problem with locking districts and that's why locking should not generate any money. Also, this thread was started by someone in Fatal Absolution, go figure!!!
This isn't a welfare state, if you want that go find it somewhere other than New Eden. What makes you think you are entitled to free money that is printed from nothing?
Guess what?
You're not, no one is. So what your Alliance/Corporation owns a District. Oh, you say you are entitled to the free money just because you won the fight? It shouldn't work that way.
Look at it this way, seizing the District is like seizing the ingredients to make cookies. Just because you have those ingredients doesn't mean you get to eat the cookies. You need to prep the dough, add the semi sweet morsels, mix them in evenly, mold the dough into little balls and then bake them into cookies; only then can you eat the cookies.
Seizing the District should give you access to X amount of potential PvE income per day. If you don't kill the mobs, you don't get the income. Just because you "own" the District doesn't mean you can farm your mobs unmolested. No, you need to defend your District from any raiders that show up to kill your mobs and claim your income. If you can't defend your District adequately, they will rob you blind. If you expand beyond what you can reasonably defend/patrol, you'll end up footing the bill for others to profit. Oh, did I forget to mention that you don't just get access to "your District" for free, you need to pay CONCORD their property tax. The upside is that you can profit by opening your structures to the public and charging them for access. Do you have a Production facility? Well, you can turn a decent profit by allowing both eggers and mercs the opportunity to utilize your manufacturing slots. Each type of facility allows you a seperate service which you can offer to the public for a price as well as X amount of potential PvE income for you to defend/farm.
There you have it, a working model for Active Income Generation rather than farming fights with blues or locking Districts or (worst of all) sitting there with your thumb up your ass while still getting paid.
Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives
Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten
Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta
|
Marad''er
Ancient Exiles.
Renegade Alliance
750
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 01:00:00 -
[58] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:If you have any creative solutions (as in within current rule sets) the CPM still have an open ear.
CPM knows this has been (and for a long while knew) a problem and are trying to work with CCP and the community on a favorable solution.
Make clone pack attacks unprofitable if no shows. This stops district locking from being profitable.
GôÉGô¥GôÿGô£Gôö > GôÉGô¢Gô¢
Gÿà¿When will dust get better?Gÿà
Forum Warrior LV. 4 | pâÅpéñpâápü»tºüpü«µëôµÆâpéÆF¦ápüúpüªpüäpéï | PSN: I-NINJA-ALL-DAY
|
Rusty Shallows
927
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 01:07:00 -
[59] - Quote
bamboo x wrote:My corp's district isn't locked.
Whatchu talkin bout Willis?
EVERYONE ATTACK!
Is what I would be saying if this was a persistent universe. As for this current situation it's just another glitch in a broken game. Some of us are numb to the voices. 
Here, have some candy and a Like. :-)
Forums > Game
|
Auris Lionesse
Capital Acquisitions LLC
Renegade Alliance
90
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 01:36:00 -
[60] - Quote
Marad''er wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:If you have any creative solutions (as in within current rule sets) the CPM still have an open ear.
CPM knows this has been (and for a long while knew) a problem and are trying to work with CCP and the community on a favorable solution. Make clone pack attacks unprofitable if no shows. This stops district locking from being profitable.
But then they'll just send one or two guys like it's a shift, or have Mach training pcs and make sure the locking side loses won't they. Need a more creative fix. |
|
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Squagga
The State Protectorate
83
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 01:40:00 -
[61] - Quote
All the "lost" ISK should be re-directed to my wallet. That is all
Reloading, the silent killer.
|
DeathwindRising
ROGUE SPADES
218
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 01:44:00 -
[62] - Quote
ReGnYuM wrote:CCP Logibro wrote:It's something we're aware of, and we're working on fixing it. Can't give a date as Chinese New Year means most of Shanghai is on holidays starting about now. Ah Richer get Richer ...and the poor just complain moar
thats cause ccp dont give 2 shyts about fixing anything in under 6 months. by the time they fix it the damage will be so beyond done that no one will have the isk to compete. i imagine some of the pc corp could run proto gear for a year straight without any income at all |
Alaika Arbosa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc.
Interstellar Murder of Crows
1411
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 01:49:00 -
[63] - Quote
DeathwindRising wrote:ReGnYuM wrote:CCP Logibro wrote:It's something we're aware of, and we're working on fixing it. Can't give a date as Chinese New Year means most of Shanghai is on holidays starting about now. Ah Richer get Richer ...and the poor just complain moar thats cause ccp dont give 2 shyts about fixing anything in under 6 months. by the time they fix it the damage will be so beyond done that no one will have the isk to compete. i imagine some of the pc corp could run proto gear for a year straight without any income at all
If it really comes to that, I doubt Dust would survive much longer than that.
There is probably some of us who possess that sort of patience though I am willing to bet that there are more of us who don't.
If it does survive that, it would more than likely be because everyone went into "Passive SP Accrual" mode aka playing other games and not touching Dust no matter the event incentives.
Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives
Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten
Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta
|
Marad''er
Ancient Exiles.
Renegade Alliance
752
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 01:55:00 -
[64] - Quote
Auris Lionesse wrote:Marad''er wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:If you have any creative solutions (as in within current rule sets) the CPM still have an open ear.
CPM knows this has been (and for a long while knew) a problem and are trying to work with CCP and the community on a favorable solution. Make clone pack attacks unprofitable if no shows. This stops district locking from being profitable. But then they'll just send one or two guys like it's a shift, or have Mach training pcs and make sure the locking side loses won't they. Need a more creative fix.
Alright then make clone pack attacks unprofitable over all.
GôÉGô¥GôÿGô£Gôö > GôÉGô¢Gô¢
Gÿà¿When will dust get better?Gÿà
Forum Warrior LV. 4 | pâÅpéñpâápü»tºüpü«µëôµÆâpéÆF¦ápüúpüªpüäpéï | PSN: I-NINJA-ALL-DAY
|
Rynoceros
Rise Of Old Dudes
2289
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 02:07:00 -
[65] - Quote
CCP Logibro wrote:It's something we're aware of, and we're working on fixing it. Can't give a date as Chinese New Year means most of Shanghai is on holidays starting about now.
I guess you'll also be aware of how many people are sick of your employer's slow poke, lackadaisical attitude and just how sick of this bullshit we are when you asshats get back from your umpteenth vacation this calendar year and see that we're not logging in because of your continued laziness.
"Laser Focused" my ass...
Natalie Portman.
|
Obodiah Garro
Tech Guard
RISE of LEGION
589
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 02:08:00 -
[66] - Quote
Alaika Arbosa wrote:They should hotfix removing it and all of the isk it has generated.
This, PC has been a sack of **** since the get go |
Tupni
Capital Acquisitions LLC
Renegade Alliance
50
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 02:25:00 -
[67] - Quote
Ares 514 wrote:They should also massively reduce ISK generation on districts with that hotfix and reduce the cost of clone packs! :)
Hopefully they fix this, it's not like it's been going on for months and months and months... oh, wait, it has. I do hope this forces the issue though.
Original post + This. PC and district ownership needs to be more accessible to maintain an active community of players rather than a stagnant monopoly of the elite/exploiters.
|
low genius
The Sound Of Freedom
Renegade Alliance
1151
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 02:52:00 -
[68] - Quote
CCP Logibro wrote:It's something we're aware of, and we're working on fixing it. Can't give a date as Chinese New Year means most of Shanghai is on holidays starting about now.
my pilots get bored really easily. we need this bs fixed and fixed fast. it's as easy as stopping income for 48 hours after a district lock. |
Baal Omniscient
L.O.T.I.S.
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
1029
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 03:14:00 -
[69] - Quote
Alaika Arbosa wrote:@regynum
Actually, you're wrong.
New Eden is all about being an antisocial capitalist sociopath filled with impotent rage until you can gather X(X+X) allies together so you can blob the cause of your impotent rage. X == the number of allies that the source of your impotent rage has.
FYI, zerg rush would be the translation of blob that you would understand.
Not to be... ya know, a downer.... but ISK is money, money buys good allies, good allies buys wins, wins = power...
so.... I think he's got a bit of a point.....
MAG ~ Raven
|
excillon
Nova Corps Marines
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
196
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 03:15:00 -
[70] - Quote
Heres a thought open up the starmap so there are more districts for corps. Open null sec so we can have some real fun! |
|
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Alaika Arbosa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc.
Interstellar Murder of Crows
1419
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 03:18:00 -
[71] - Quote
Baal Omniscient wrote:Alaika Arbosa wrote:@regynum
Actually, you're wrong.
New Eden is all about being an antisocial capitalist sociopath filled with impotent rage until you can gather X(X+X) allies together so you can blob the cause of your impotent rage. X == the number of allies that the source of your impotent rage has.
FYI, zerg rush would be the translation of blob that you would understand. Not to be... ya know, a downer.... but ISK is money, money buys good allies, good allies buys wins, wins = power... so.... I think he's got a bit of a point.....
Allies bought are not allies at all.
If you bought them, so can anyone else so how can you ever truly trust that they will remain loyal?
Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives
Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten
Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta
|
Alaika Arbosa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc.
Interstellar Murder of Crows
1420
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 03:20:00 -
[72] - Quote
excillon wrote:Heres a thought open up the starmap so there are more districts for corps. Open null sec so we can have some real fun!
This will change nothing, the corps who've been in Molden Heath playing Soggy Biscuits with the Blueberry Muffin will simply zerg rush the land grabs and just make themselves even more bloated with Isk.
This will only exacerbate an already terminal condition.
Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives
Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten
Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta
|
True Adamance
Kameira Lodge
Amarr Empire
6381
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 03:20:00 -
[73] - Quote
Alaika Arbosa wrote:Baal Omniscient wrote:Alaika Arbosa wrote:@regynum
Actually, you're wrong.
New Eden is all about being an antisocial capitalist sociopath filled with impotent rage until you can gather X(X+X) allies together so you can blob the cause of your impotent rage. X == the number of allies that the source of your impotent rage has.
FYI, zerg rush would be the translation of blob that you would understand. Not to be... ya know, a downer.... but ISK is money, money buys good allies, good allies buys wins, wins = power... so.... I think he's got a bit of a point..... Allies bought are not allies at all. If you bought them, so can anyone else so how can you ever truly trust that they will remain loyal?
You cant and that's exactly why you can trust them. Money is money, a mercenary is a mercenary, they go where the most money is.
If you have it you can trust they will stick by you, if you don't you can trust they are against you.
"My Faith in you is absolute; my sword is Yours, My God, and Your will guides me now and for all eternity."
|
Alaika Arbosa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc.
Interstellar Murder of Crows
1420
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 03:23:00 -
[74] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Alaika Arbosa wrote:Baal Omniscient wrote:Alaika Arbosa wrote:@regynum
Actually, you're wrong.
New Eden is all about being an antisocial capitalist sociopath filled with impotent rage until you can gather X(X+X) allies together so you can blob the cause of your impotent rage. X == the number of allies that the source of your impotent rage has.
FYI, zerg rush would be the translation of blob that you would understand. Not to be... ya know, a downer.... but ISK is money, money buys good allies, good allies buys wins, wins = power... so.... I think he's got a bit of a point..... Allies bought are not allies at all. If you bought them, so can anyone else so how can you ever truly trust that they will remain loyal? You cant and that's exactly why you can trust them. Money is money, a mercenary is a mercenary, they go where the most money is. If you have it you can trust they will stick by you, if you don't you can trust they are against you.
If they can be swayed by money, how can you know that they can't be swayed by the mere suggestion of more money?
This is New Eden after all, it isn't like betrayal is some unheard of practice.
Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives
Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten
Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta
|
WAR-MONGER SLAUGHTER
Dem Durrty Boyz
Renegade Alliance
33
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 03:26:00 -
[75] - Quote
GOOOOOD!
CCP NEEDS TO LEARN THEIR LESSON .. THIS IS OUR GAME .. WE CONTROL IT ..
FIX WHAT WE WANT .. OR U WILL HAVE NO GAME TO FIX!!!!!!!!!!!!
PERIOD....
IM HAPPY U GUYS HAVE F.U.C.K.E.D. PC .. N SHUT IT DOWN
NOW LETS SEE WHAT THEY DO!
Gÿ£GÿàGÿàGÿàGÿàGÿàGÿP WAR-MONGER SLAUGHTER ... THE GOD HEAVY Gÿ£GÿàGÿàGÿàGÿàGÿàGÿP
|
True Adamance
Kameira Lodge
Amarr Empire
6381
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 03:27:00 -
[76] - Quote
Alaika Arbosa wrote:True Adamance wrote:Alaika Arbosa wrote:Baal Omniscient wrote:Alaika Arbosa wrote:@regynum
Actually, you're wrong.
New Eden is all about being an antisocial capitalist sociopath filled with impotent rage until you can gather X(X+X) allies together so you can blob the cause of your impotent rage. X == the number of allies that the source of your impotent rage has.
FYI, zerg rush would be the translation of blob that you would understand. Not to be... ya know, a downer.... but ISK is money, money buys good allies, good allies buys wins, wins = power... so.... I think he's got a bit of a point..... Allies bought are not allies at all. If you bought them, so can anyone else so how can you ever truly trust that they will remain loyal? You cant and that's exactly why you can trust them. Money is money, a mercenary is a mercenary, they go where the most money is. If you have it you can trust they will stick by you, if you don't you can trust they are against you. If they can be swayed by money, how can you know that they can't be swayed by the mere suggestion of more money? This is New Eden after all, it isn't like betrayal is some unheard of practice.
And if you promise more?
"My Faith in you is absolute; my sword is Yours, My God, and Your will guides me now and for all eternity."
|
WAR-MONGER SLAUGHTER
Dem Durrty Boyz
Renegade Alliance
33
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 03:29:00 -
[77] - Quote
CCP Logibro wrote:It's something we're aware of, and we're working on fixing it. Can't give a date as Chinese New Year means most of Shanghai is on holidays starting about now.
NEW YEAR ISNT A HOLIDAY.. NICE TRY THOUGH...
HOLIDAY IS A HOLY DAY.. NEW YEARS ... IS NOT THAT..
Gÿ£GÿàGÿàGÿàGÿàGÿàGÿP WAR-MONGER SLAUGHTER ... THE GOD HEAVY Gÿ£GÿàGÿàGÿàGÿàGÿàGÿP
|
Luna Angelo
We Who Walk Alone
599
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 03:30:00 -
[78] - Quote
Sgt Kirk wrote:ReGnYuM wrote:
ISK = Power... NO?
ISK is also a good way to get laid by a Caldari woman. They'll do anything for money.... anything.
I resent that. We won't do anything for ISK. There are boundaries, as no real Caldari would fight for Gallente. So, not anything for money.
I don't need luck, I have ammo.
Wolves don't lose sleep over the opinions of sheep.
CEO of We Who Walk Alone
|
Alaika Arbosa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc.
Interstellar Murder of Crows
1420
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 03:31:00 -
[79] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:
And if you promise more?
So you're just going to arbitrarily offer more money than you are already giving them out of fear that they will be swayed to an enemies side by the suggestion that they will pay them more?
C'mon, I thought you were smarter than that, they'd just allude to the thought that others have offered more and extort you for everything you've got until you were poorer than they were and then they move onto the next client.
Leaving you where?
****** and with no allies.
Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives
Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten
Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta
|
WAR-MONGER SLAUGHTER
Dem Durrty Boyz
Renegade Alliance
33
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 03:35:00 -
[80] - Quote
Sgt Kirk wrote:CCP Logibro wrote:It's something we're aware of, and we're working on fixing it. Can't give a date as Chinese New Year means most of Shanghai is on holidays starting about now. Why is it that whenever I here a Dev speak of CCP Shanghai they are always on vacation.
BECAUSE CCP IS LIKE A BABIES DIAPER...
FULL OF SH!T
Gÿ£GÿàGÿàGÿàGÿàGÿàGÿP WAR-MONGER SLAUGHTER ... THE GOD HEAVY Gÿ£GÿàGÿàGÿàGÿàGÿàGÿP
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low genius
The Sound Of Freedom
Renegade Alliance
1152
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 03:39:00 -
[81] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:If you have any creative solutions (as in within current rule sets) the CPM still have an open ear.
CPM knows this has been (and for a long while knew) a problem and are trying to work with CCP and the community on a favorable solution.
locked districts should not create income. it's as easy as that. it's reward without risk, and contrary to new eden.
it might as well be a red-line. |
dogmanpig
black market bank
119
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 03:47:00 -
[82] - Quote
everyone calm down, its all part of the 10 year beta plan.
the actual "full release" is in 2023.
You hate me, I hate you. Lets keep it that way.
Level 11 2/10 Forum alt.
"Its worth half a penny and a reach around"
|
Tupni
Capital Acquisitions LLC
Renegade Alliance
51
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 03:49:00 -
[83] - Quote
low genius wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:If you have any creative solutions (as in within current rule sets) the CPM still have an open ear.
CPM knows this has been (and for a long while knew) a problem and are trying to work with CCP and the community on a favorable solution. locked districts should not create income. it's as easy as that. it's reward without risk, and contrary to new eden. it might as well be a red-line.
This seems like an elegant and sensible solution. It doesn't require any serious coding or alteration to the status quo. You can still turtle it out, but safety comes at the price of opportunity. Safety with consequence or Risk with reward.
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Dandeth Adloth
ReDust Inc.
11
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 04:27:00 -
[84] - Quote
I have to quote myself from a post in oktober...:
Dandeth Adloth wrote:Can you please take PC out of the game!
It serves no pupose.
Please take note that all players of this game are waiting since forever for completion of the basics!
So give us the remaining racial suits and weapons. Do not do anything else before that!
Give us the market to sell all the crap that has accumulated in our locker.
Then, work on meaningful game variants like protect the digger:
Have Eve Players own districts with the possibility to deploy surface assets (factories, mining facilities, etc.)
Then let these Eve players fight over these assets using us Dust players (we are Mercs right).
Please spare us all this spreadsheet bs nobody wants in a shooter. Give us diverse battles with different map loadouts depending on assets that are to be protected.
Give us 1 Headquarter for the corp, where we are based and can walk around to show of our favourite suits and train for battle on a Map with deployable structures.
CCP You do not get that shooter players are NOT interested in spreadsheet immersion, we are interested in fps immersion!
We need diverse battles and maybe a hangout, that's it!
You will not get us more interested in this letdown of a game with those pathetic adjustments.
Investments in the battles themselves is the only thing that will generate interest...
Cheers
That#s pretty much it, remove PC assets out of Dust and into EVE.
Let us fight over those assets. The Eggsters can provide OB support, and all the hassle with districts is a thing of the past.
Most corps need to have EVE CEOs anyway, so no harm done if the whole district ownership goes to the Podsters.
They can build the warbarges, all the gear and so on, we just do the fighting.
And give them EVE dudes some real bonusses for owning districts, so far they don't give a flying Fxxx for districts...
The only guys givin' a crap eve side, are pirates who just fly along and pod you for sitting on a friggin district sattelite that has a shoot me sign on it...
Cheers |
m twiggz
Pradox One
Proficiency V.
306
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 04:44:00 -
[85] - Quote
I thought you saying every district is locked was a troll, just looked, that's hilarious. Maybe it'll push CCP into doing something worth while with PC. Probably not. They have to celebrate their 800 holidays first. |
Denn Maell
PIanet Express
Canis Eliminatus Operatives
131
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 05:25:00 -
[86] - Quote
We need the old Corp battles back, or if not that then a way of participating in corp battles without the heavy investment.
Give Corps the ability to 'Raid' locked districts to steal clones/Isk rather than all or nothing conquest. You could still 'lock' districts from capture, but they would never be locked from smaller raids.
The most OP weapon on the Dust Battle Field:
One good logi, one rep tool, and a heavy.
|
Sgt Kirk
Fatal Absolution
Covert Intervention
4245
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 05:36:00 -
[87] - Quote
Luna Angelo wrote:Sgt Kirk wrote:ReGnYuM wrote:
ISK = Power... NO?
ISK is also a good way to get laid by a Caldari woman. They'll do anything for money.... anything. I resent that. We won't do anything for ISK. There are boundaries, as no real Caldari would fight for Gallente. So, not anything for money.
Tell that to the many Caldari that took up my offer to Sabotage Caldari FW. |
KenKaniff69
Fatal Absolution
Covert Intervention
1992
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 06:01:00 -
[88] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:If you have any creative solutions (as in within current rule sets) the CPM still have an open ear.
CPM knows this has been (and for a long while knew) a problem and are trying to work with CCP and the community on a favorable solution.
Uhm...
READ THE OP
So about those vehicle locks...
|
excillon
Nova Corps Marines
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
196
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 06:08:00 -
[89] - Quote
Alaika Arbosa wrote:excillon wrote:Heres a thought open up the starmap so there are more districts for corps. Open null sec so we can have some real fun! This will change nothing, the corps who've been in Molden Heath playing Soggy Biscuits with the Blueberry Muffin will simply zerg rush the land grabs and just make themselves even more bloated with Isk. This will only exacerbate an already terminal condition.
Let them try. Some groups have spent their entire time on dust preparing for that day. |
Johnny Guilt
Algintal Core
473
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 06:17:00 -
[90] - Quote
Good,let's hope it's stops corps from printing money
A strange game.
The only winning move is
not to play.
|
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Arkena Wyrnspire
Fatal Absolution
Covert Intervention
8695
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 07:14:00 -
[91] - Quote
Johnny Guilt wrote:Good,let's hope it's stops corps from printing money
Someone who doesn't understand.
You realise that by doing this, until CCP fixes it, not only are our districts completely safe and generating, but they are in fact generating more ISK by doing this.
Of course, you've nothing to worry about. This issue might actually be fixed when the devs get back from their holiday.
Don't hold your breath though. I fully expect that we'll be doing this for months. Can you guess how much ISK we'll generate in that time?
ZATARA CARRIES US ALL
Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution
MAG Raven
|
Spectral Clone
Dust2Dust.
Top Men.
1124
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 08:04:00 -
[92] - Quote
I have compiled an action list for the task force to be assemblied when CCP Shanghai is back from vacation:
1. Fix the issue with locking being profitable.
2. Use ingame statistics to track all of the ISK being generated by attacking with a clone pack (God, I dont want to be the guy to do this job).
3. Remove ISK found in (2).
4. Ban corp CEOs/Directors that have abused this exploit before date 2014-01-01 for minimum six months. Possible permaban. Just to make an example that it is NOT ACCEPTABLE to exploit, even in New Eden.
Prepare for 1.8: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPhISgw3I2w
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Marad''er
Ancient Exiles.
Renegade Alliance
755
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 08:14:00 -
[93] - Quote
So is anyone going to do the math for how much isk is going to be made off this with no risk?
Ill personally do AE's daily isk generation... Might even do all of RA as a whole.
GôÉGô¥GôÿGô£Gôö > GôÉGô¢Gô¢
Gÿà¿When will dust get better?Gÿà
Forum Warrior LV. 4 | pâÅpéñpâápü»tºüpü«µëôµÆâpéÆF¦ápüúpüªpüäpéï | PSN: I-NINJA-ALL-DAY
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JL3Eleven
1684
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 08:57:00 -
[94] - Quote
Marad''er wrote:So is anyone going to do the math for how much isk is going to be made off this with no risk?
Ill personally do AE's daily isk generation... Might even do all of RA as a whole.
Think of them paychecks  ... 
I will pay 1 Billion ISK for a Thale's TAR-07 Sniper Rifle BPO.
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Bendtner92
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
1593
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 09:14:00 -
[95] - Quote
Marad''er wrote:So is anyone going to do the math for how much isk is going to be made off this with no risk?
Ill personally do AE's daily isk generation... Might even do all of RA as a whole.
245 districts * 8.800.000 ISK (assuming all districts are non-Production Facilities, which they're likely not. 8.8 million ISK since 80 clones produced per day * 110k ISK) = 2.156.000.000 ISK per day. Yep, more than 2 billion ISK made passively per day in PC.
My easy to do solutions:
1. Remove passive ISK generation.
2. Increase payouts for winning.
3. Make Clone Packs 150 clones with a 50-60 million ISK pricetag instead (or have different Clone Packs, so one with 120 clones at the current price and one with 150 at a higher price).
4. Fix the exploit where no-showing refunds the Clone Pack.
There, PC will be in a reasonable state until PC 2.0 comes around. That CCP has done nothing for months is simply inexcusable, and I just don't get it. So much ISK is being generated passively with no risk at all.
Alternatively you can also do this (involving a bit more work):
1. Delete PC.
2. (Re)introduce Corp Contracts, only this time it shouldn't list who puts up the contract, but just the time. Also there should be a minimum of at least 10 million ISK for putting up contracts.
Winner of the EU Squad Cup & the closed beta Tester's Tournament.
Go Go Power Rangers!
R.I.P MAG.
|
Johnny Guilt
Algintal Core
474
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 09:37:00 -
[96] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Johnny Guilt wrote:Good,let's hope it's stops corps from printing money Someone who doesn't understand. You realise that by doing this, until CCP fixes it, not only are our districts completely safe and generating, but they are in fact generating more ISK by doing this. Of course, you've nothing to worry about. This issue might actually be fixed when the devs get back from their holiday. Don't hold your breath though. I fully expect that we'll be doing this for months. Can you guess how much ISK we'll generate in that time?
remember when CCP accidental gave out free money? how much debt will you get in one shot?-999,999,999,999ISK? i await the day patiently.
A strange game.
The only winning move is
not to play.
|
steadyhand amarr
Bragian Order
Amarr Empire
2222
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 09:58:00 -
[97] - Quote
Im with others remove PC and never ever have a passive isk system again. I also strongly feel isk generated from locking should be taken off the corps otherwise they just have a silly advantage even more so when the player market comes out.
Going forword merc outfits should just be contractors if u want hold land get an EvE account and pay a merc unit -_-
"i dont care about you or your goals, just show me the dam isk"
winner of EU squad cup
GOGO power rangers
|
Spectral Clone
Dust2Dust.
Top Men.
1125
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 10:05:00 -
[98] - Quote
steadyhand amarr wrote:Im with others remove PC and never ever have a passive isk system again. I also strongly feel isk generated from locking should be taken off the corps otherwise they just have a silly advantage even more so when the player market comes out.
Going forword merc outfits should just be contractors if u want hold land get an EvE account and pay a merc unit -_-
Also, ban the exploiters to show them this is not ok.
Prepare for 1.8: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPhISgw3I2w
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steadyhand amarr
Bragian Order
Amarr Empire
2222
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 10:23:00 -
[99] - Quote
I dont agree with a ban unless ccp made it clear this is an exploit but instead they said it was problem so no with ban not enough warning their.
"i dont care about you or your goals, just show me the dam isk"
winner of EU squad cup
GOGO power rangers
|
Auris Lionesse
Capital Acquisitions LLC
Renegade Alliance
100
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 10:25:00 -
[100] - Quote
steadyhand amarr wrote:I dont agree with a ban unless ccp made it clear this is an exploit but instead they said it was problem so no with ban not enough warning their.
i keep hearing it referred to as a glitch but im not sure if thats angry players calling it a glitch or if it was actually a glitch. |
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Aeon Amadi
Ancient Exiles.
Renegade Alliance
4776
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 10:28:00 -
[101] - Quote
CCP Logibro wrote:It's something we're aware of, and we're working on fixing it. Can't give a date as Chinese New Year means most of Shanghai is on holidays starting about now.
I'm no game designer (yet) but I think a viable solution would be to say that the clones from clone pack are of a lower grade and can't be reimbursed, this way a clone pack used to attack a district isn't worth anything to the defender. If that doesn't work I'd escalate to reducing victory payouts.
Useful Links
//forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=133588
//forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134182
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steadyhand amarr
Bragian Order
Amarr Empire
2222
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 10:28:00 -
[102] - Quote
Unleas someone has a fourm post where ccp admits its a glitch its just angey players
"i dont care about you or your goals, just show me the dam isk"
winner of EU squad cup
GOGO power rangers
|
steadyhand amarr
Bragian Order
Amarr Empire
2222
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 10:44:00 -
[103] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:CCP Logibro wrote:It's something we're aware of, and we're working on fixing it. Can't give a date as Chinese New Year means most of Shanghai is on holidays starting about now. I'm no game designer (yet) but I think a viable solution would be to say that the clones from clone pack are of a lower grade and can't be reimbursed, this way a clone pack used to attack a district isn't worth anything to the defender. If that doesn't work I'd escalate to reducing victory payouts.
Or make clones a tradeable item u can buy off other corps and remove clone packs all together in order to lock district u massively hit ur profit intake by having to wast your own clones tito attack yourself.
This idea i admit needs more fleshing out but i strongly feel we neex to move away from clock on off style game modes and move to a 24/7 system
"i dont care about you or your goals, just show me the dam isk"
winner of EU squad cup
GOGO power rangers
|
Bayeth Mal
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
11
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 10:48:00 -
[104] - Quote
To be honest this ISK generation through district locking actually puts me off the game, I'll tolerate tank spam, redline headglitching thales, slayer logis, Scotty etc. But this renders any and all attempts to earn and save ISK a waste of time, thereby negating the theme and meta narrative of the game. No matter how much I play, I can't make as much as players who may have actually given up playing entirely. This is a worse impact on the potential economy than BPO's.
Personally I think because of this the player market should be delayed until at least a year after PC is fixed. Possibly longer. |
Bendtner92
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
1597
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 11:02:00 -
[105] - Quote
I just don't get how hard it can be to remove ISK generation and fix the refunding exploit. Those two things would solve this problem right away. After that they can look at doing things like increasing the payout for winning.
They don't need to fix every single problem with PC as it's going to be deleted when PC 2.0 comes around. They just need to do those small bandaids.
It's also funny they were supposed to at least lower ISK generation (to 60k ISK per clone) three months ago, but for some unknown reason that has never happened. Just do these bandaid fixes and leave PC be until PC 2.0 or delete PC right now and forget it ever existed.
Winner of the EU Squad Cup & the closed beta Tester's Tournament.
Go Go Power Rangers!
R.I.P MAG.
|
Aeon Amadi
Ancient Exiles.
Renegade Alliance
4779
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 11:11:00 -
[106] - Quote
Bendtner92 wrote:I just don't get how hard it can be to remove ISK generation and fix the refunding exploit. Those two things would solve this problem right away. After that they can look at doing things like increasing the payout for winning.
They don't need to fix every single problem with PC as it's going to be deleted when PC 2.0 comes around. They just need to do those small bandaids.
It's also funny they were supposed to at least lower ISK generation (to 60k ISK per clone) three months ago, but for some unknown reason that has never happened. Just do these bandaid fixes and leave PC be until PC 2.0 or delete PC right now and forget it ever existed.
I always love reading the "remove 'x' content please" arguments. Last thing this game needs is less content - PC is the only thing that separates this game from a 100% match-maker shooter and, well, it just barely does that at the moment.
Removing ISK generation would just kill any reason to go into PC what-so-ever, the entire point of getting into PC is to make ISK and removing that defeats the entire purpose of a "risk vs reward" style gameplay. What we need is a more methodical way to go about it and one solution I really liked was having it so that clone packs could only be used to attack a district bordering a high-sec system. Gives a more tactical reason to have space in a certain area as opposed to just anywhere and it kills district locking all together in systems that -dont- border high-sec.
Only thing you need to do then is make it so that systems that can be attacked by those clone packs don't make any ISK from it; as previously stated. Gives players a reason and drive to push further into low-sec and more tactical space because otherwise they're subject to just constant attacks by just anyone and they don't make anything from it, only when their clones are at capacity in the district.
Useful Links
//forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=133588
//forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134182
|
Spectral Clone
Dust2Dust.
Top Men.
1126
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 11:13:00 -
[107] - Quote
Fix this already CCP.
Prepare for 1.8: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPhISgw3I2w
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Raylon Mortien
Eternal Beings
Proficiency V.
6
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 11:17:00 -
[108] - Quote
PC and corporations that pub stomp with their Millions of Iskies are fueling the AUR bought items that new players think will help them to compete on a Proto level. New players that consistantly get proto stomped think buying the AUR versions will put them on par although most know better its still generating $money$ for CCP. Why would they fix it? it generates money for them. if players didn't have to run better gear than they could buy why would AUR even exist?
"Sir, we are surrounded!"
"Excellent, now we can attack in any direction!"
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Bendtner92
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
1597
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 11:17:00 -
[109] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:I always love reading the "remove 'x' content please" arguments. Last thing this game needs is less content - PC is the only thing that separates this game from a 100% match-maker shooter and, well, it just barely does that at the moment.
Removing ISK generation would just kill any reason to go into PC what-so-ever, the entire point of getting into PC is to make ISK and removing that defeats the entire purpose of a "risk vs reward" style gameplay. What we need is a more methodical way to go about it and one solution I really liked was having it so that clone packs could only be used to attack a district bordering a high-sec system. Gives a more tactical reason to have space in a certain area as opposed to just anywhere and it kills district locking all together in systems that -dont- border high-sec.
Only thing you need to do then is make it so that systems that can be attacked by those clone packs don't make any ISK from it; as previously stated. Gives players a reason and drive to push further into low-sec and more tactical space because otherwise they're subject to just constant attacks by just anyone and they don't make anything from it, only when their clones are at capacity in the district.
All of that is something that can't just be done easily. Removing ISK generation and fixing the refunding exploit is easy. Reason for still wanting to get districts is to attack and make ISK from winning those matches, in fact, I even said they should increase payout for winning = more reason to get districts as they can get more ISK.
They absolutely shouldn't be trying to redesign PC at this point as it will be deleted once PC 2.0 comes around anyway, so there would be no point. They just need to do some bandaid fixes to keep PC running until we have PC 2.0.
As for my comment about deleting PC right now I think you missed my post on the last page where I wanted Corp Contracts (re)introduced instead. I also said this would involve more work than just doing the bandaid fixes I mentioned above.
Winner of the EU Squad Cup & the closed beta Tester's Tournament.
Go Go Power Rangers!
R.I.P MAG.
|
Stefan Stahl
Seituoda Taskforce Command
Caldari State
414
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 13:33:00 -
[110] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:I always love reading the "remove 'x' content please" arguments. It is debatable whether bad content is better than no content.
Consider that next to nobody actually participates in planetary conquest and you may arrive at the conclusion that fixing PC isn't even worth the effort.
I'd love there to be a functional planetary conquest element in Dust514 - much like I enjoy seeing news about working NullSec warfare in Eve without ever participating in it, but I don't think CCP Shanghai has the staff to make it work. If that were true I assume planetary conquest would have to be stripped from the game until CCP becomes able to deliver a working PC component. See Skirmish 1.0 for reference.
This is of course just my opinion as an outsider. Dust has an Executive Producer that is supposed to make that kind of decision.
Edit:
I wonder whether CCP actually has staff that knows how to calculate a Nash-Equilibrium. I don't think so. |
|
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xxwhitedevilxx M
Maphia Clan Corporation
1605
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 14:02:00 -
[111] - Quote
Former Eon and Cronos corps are pretty rich because of the huge ISK Farm. Nyan San, I don't even want to do a ISK per Day calculation, same for AE. It's a bad game design (hell, even reinforcements windows are exploitable), they should just scratch it and rebuild it from the ground up.
Anyone saying that PC is good the way it is now is just trying to protect his own interests.
Tank 514.
|
Drapedup Drippedout
0uter.Heaven
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
249
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 14:29:00 -
[112] - Quote
Well one way to get through to CCP is to hold the entire game economy hostage. @ AE, and other district lockers. I understand what you guys are doing, I just don't agree with it.
CCP has already stated they are working on a fix, effectively what you guys have now done is hijacked whatever economy this game will have (SOONtm) and are holding it hostage.
If you would like the support of the community in this venture, then I propose opening up your books and posting the ISK generated from clone sales daily until CCP fixes this. (This way, we have an idea of how game breaking it is, as well as how much CCP will revoke when they fix the clone pack refunds).
Ultimately they chose to remove BPO's from the game due to 'economic impact'...When you are farming over 1 bil a day at absolutely no risk, what makes you think they won't swing a swift and heavy nerf hammer in your direction? I know this is what you want, but because you are choosing to hijack the economy...I hope they hit very hard.
@CCP, Due to the impatient acts of a few corps (also your own inability to address a fairly simple issue) we are at a breaking point in the GAME, not in PC, in the GAME. Here you have massive amounts of ISK, being freely farmed with absolutely no risk. What about the 85% of your game that is not involved in PC? How do you justify so much revenue being hoarded by so few people, due to your own ****** game mechanics?
Corps with locks on districts, do not be surprised if CCP comes along to take ALL the isk generated from locked districts and no show battles. Nyain San, you pathetic scrubs, you are an absolute dog **** PC corp as proven by your inability to beat ANYONE as of late. I hope CCP takes you farmers to the cleaners, as you truly have not earned that isk, you relied on server lag to get you there and have proven yourselves unworthy of the districts you do hold. Enjoy your protostomping in pubs, it may not last much longer. (Yes I have a raging hard on for nyain as I got trolled in ambush yesterday with 4 nyain alts commiting suicide repeatedly just so my team lost lol, we were winning the gun game until the defeat screen pops up and 4 Blueberry scrubs have scores of 0/15,0/14,0/17,0/16 and I get mail saying "me nyain, you lose"). I guess they just needed to feel better after getting 4 capped and raped in the PC  |
Drapedup Drippedout
0uter.Heaven
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
249
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 14:36:00 -
[113] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Bendtner92 wrote:I just don't get how hard it can be to remove ISK generation and fix the refunding exploit. Those two things would solve this problem right away. After that they can look at doing things like increasing the payout for winning.
They don't need to fix every single problem with PC as it's going to be deleted when PC 2.0 comes around. They just need to do those small bandaids.
It's also funny they were supposed to at least lower ISK generation (to 60k ISK per clone) three months ago, but for some unknown reason that has never happened. Just do these bandaid fixes and leave PC be until PC 2.0 or delete PC right now and forget it ever existed. I always love reading the "remove 'x' content please" arguments. Last thing this game needs is less content - PC is the only thing that separates this game from a 100% match-maker shooter and, well, it just barely does that at the moment. Removing ISK generation would just kill any reason to go into PC what-so-ever, the entire point of getting into PC is to make ISK and removing that defeats the entire purpose of a "risk vs reward" style gameplay. What we need is a more methodical way to go about it and one solution I really liked was having it so that clone packs could only be used to attack a district bordering a high-sec system. Gives a more tactical reason to have space in a certain area as opposed to just anywhere and it kills district locking all together in systems that -dont- border high-sec. Only thing you need to do then is make it so that systems that can be attacked by those clone packs don't make any ISK from it; as previously stated. Gives players a reason and drive to push further into low-sec and more tactical space because otherwise they're subject to just constant attacks by just anyone and they don't make anything from it, only when their clones are at capacity in the district.
Aeon, I disagree, if you incentivize winning PC matches with higher isk payouts and not farming....then ultimately corps will only hold what they can defend. Since the farming would come from winning. You would see many more attacks, but stacked timers? gone...if you can't field a team then you lose the isk and the attacking team earns enough isk to re-up and attack again. If lost, go farm your tax rate until you can get enough to launch another attack. I don't know why CCP doesn't incentivize(real word?) winning and the act of fighting more than the act of farming? Farming makes sense if there is some form of industry or market in this game, but there's not currently...so the current mechanics of PC should reflect that. |
Roofer Madness
Tickle My Null-Sac
786
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 14:44:00 -
[114] - Quote
I find this situation hilarious. I've been aware of a certain expression for awhile now. Not sure how I heard or came across it. Usually I say it with sort of a NY accent. But the phrase is,
"What are you waitin' on - Chinese New Year?" (generally said in a construction jobsite atmosphere when **** talking a slower moving co-worker.)
I always thought the joke was in the sentiment that someone would wait on a completely arbitrary (to them) holiday. Now I think maybe the joke is that nothing gets done during Chinese New Year. I'm not sure. But I giggle every time I think about it and I just thought I would share.
I spent half my ISK on gambling, alcohol and wild women. The other half I wasted.
|
Alaika Arbosa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc.
Interstellar Murder of Crows
1434
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 14:53:00 -
[115] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Bendtner92 wrote:I just don't get how hard it can be to remove ISK generation and fix the refunding exploit. Those two things would solve this problem right away. After that they can look at doing things like increasing the payout for winning.
They don't need to fix every single problem with PC as it's going to be deleted when PC 2.0 comes around. They just need to do those small bandaids.
It's also funny they were supposed to at least lower ISK generation (to 60k ISK per clone) three months ago, but for some unknown reason that has never happened. Just do these bandaid fixes and leave PC be until PC 2.0 or delete PC right now and forget it ever existed. I always love reading the "remove 'x' content please" arguments. Last thing this game needs is less content - PC is the only thing that separates this game from a 100% match-maker shooter and, well, it just barely does that at the moment. Removing ISK generation would just kill any reason to go into PC what-so-ever, the entire point of getting into PC is to make ISK and removing that defeats the entire purpose of a "risk vs reward" style gameplay. What we need is a more methodical way to go about it and one solution I really liked was having it so that clone packs could only be used to attack a district bordering a high-sec system. Gives a more tactical reason to have space in a certain area as opposed to just anywhere and it kills district locking all together in systems that -dont- border high-sec. Only thing you need to do then is make it so that systems that can be attacked by those clone packs don't make any ISK from it; as previously stated. Gives players a reason and drive to push further into low-sec and more tactical space because otherwise they're subject to just constant attacks by just anyone and they don't make anything from it, only when their clones are at capacity in the district.
PC is content for what percentage of the playerbase? Of that percentage of the playerbase, what percentage get to do something more than overpaid "privates"? Even beyond that, how much of that content is anything more than simply epeen waving and deciding who to farm with next or which newcomer to **** on first.
The percentage of the playerbase that actually participates in PC is inconsequentially small in comparison to the percentage that doesn't. They are the only ones that will miss it while CCP rebuilds it from the ground up. I am not even sure that any work done so far on PC 2.0 should even be kept since most likely they are moving forward with the same broken premises. The content CCP should focus on giving us is full racial parity. If anything else, I'd say that PvE should be a higher priority than PC in any shape, form or fashion. I would be willing to wait for a summer "expansion" that introduces raidable PvE as well as reintroducing PC (as a non-broken, Active source of Income Generation if we didn't need to worry about the currently broken system poisoning the rest of the game.
Personally, I think expanding on the idea I presented earlier in this thread would be the perfect start for a new PC. It would make PC something that would encourage conflict as well as introducing other elements that the community has been requesting for a long time, PvE, PvEvP, player market in addition to science & industry and who can forget the fact that it would entwine Dust and Eve further (offering services to capsuleers and mercs alike through the surface infrastructure)
For all of the talk of BPOs being a detriment to the Dust economy, they are a drop in the bucket compared to the isk that is generated from nothing everyday under the current PC mechanics. I am fairly certain that anyone who can't see or admit that is simply trying to protect their cash cow no matter what the longterm damage to the game may be.
Which is more important to you, being stupid rich in a game on life support; or giving up your golden goose before travelling down Dust's road to recovery?
Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives
Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten
Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta
|
Drapedup Drippedout
0uter.Heaven
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
252
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 15:00:00 -
[116] - Quote
Alaika Arbosa wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Bendtner92 wrote:I just don't get how hard it can be to remove ISK generation and fix the refunding exploit. Those two things would solve this problem right away. After that they can look at doing things like increasing the payout for winning.
They don't need to fix every single problem with PC as it's going to be deleted when PC 2.0 comes around. They just need to do those small bandaids.
It's also funny they were supposed to at least lower ISK generation (to 60k ISK per clone) three months ago, but for some unknown reason that has never happened. Just do these bandaid fixes and leave PC be until PC 2.0 or delete PC right now and forget it ever existed. I always love reading the "remove 'x' content please" arguments. Last thing this game needs is less content - PC is the only thing that separates this game from a 100% match-maker shooter and, well, it just barely does that at the moment. Removing ISK generation would just kill any reason to go into PC what-so-ever, the entire point of getting into PC is to make ISK and removing that defeats the entire purpose of a "risk vs reward" style gameplay. What we need is a more methodical way to go about it and one solution I really liked was having it so that clone packs could only be used to attack a district bordering a high-sec system. Gives a more tactical reason to have space in a certain area as opposed to just anywhere and it kills district locking all together in systems that -dont- border high-sec. Only thing you need to do then is make it so that systems that can be attacked by those clone packs don't make any ISK from it; as previously stated. Gives players a reason and drive to push further into low-sec and more tactical space because otherwise they're subject to just constant attacks by just anyone and they don't make anything from it, only when their clones are at capacity in the district. PC is content for what percentage of the playerbase? Of that percentage of the playerbase, what percentage get to do something more than overpaid "privates"? Even beyond that, how much of that content is anything more than simply epeen waving and deciding who to farm with next or which newcomer to **** on first. The percentage of the playerbase that actually participates in PC is inconsequentially small in comparison to the percentage that doesn't. They are the only ones that will miss it while CCP rebuilds it from the ground up. I am not even sure that any work done so far on PC 2.0 should even be kept since most likely they are moving forward with the same broken premises. The content CCP should focus on giving us is full racial parity. If anything else, I'd say that PvE should be a higher priority than PC in any shape, form or fashion. I would be willing to wait for a summer "expansion" that introduces raidable PvE as well as reintroducing PC (as a non-broken, Active source of Income Generation if we didn't need to worry about the currently broken system poisoning the rest of the game. Personally, I think expanding on the idea I presented earlier in this thread would be the perfect start for a new PC. It would make PC something that would encourage conflict as well as introducing other elements that the community has been requesting for a long time, PvE, PvEvP, player market in addition to science & industry and who can forget the fact that it would entwine Dust and Eve further (offering services to capsuleers and mercs alike through the surface infrastructure) For all of the talk of BPOs being a detriment to the Dust economy, they are a drop in the bucket compared to the isk that is generated from nothing everyday under the current PC mechanics. I am fairly certain that anyone who can't see or admit that is simply trying to protect their cash cow no matter what the longterm damage to the game may be. Which is more important to you, being stupid rich in a game on life support; or giving up your golden goose before travelling down Dust's road to recovery?
Honestly PC is where you get to see this game shine. I mean really shine. Weapons are balanced, teams are working together, they are highly stressful situations but they are also A LOT of fun. PC is what this game should be balanced around as it is 16 v 16 in full proto, fully organized and working towards one objective. I truly wish the entire community had the opportunity to see that this game has so much more to offer beyond pubs.
PC should be the holy land for corps and the end game content for this game. PC in its current form is truly fun, CCP just needs to balance to the isk risk v reward system. |
Darken-Soul
BIG BAD W0LVES
220
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 15:03:00 -
[117] - Quote
Alaika Arbosa wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Bendtner92 wrote:I just don't get how hard it can be to remove ISK generation and fix the refunding exploit. Those two things would solve this problem right away. After that they can look at doing things like increasing the payout for winning.
They don't need to fix every single problem with PC as it's going to be deleted when PC 2.0 comes around. They just need to do those small bandaids.
It's also funny they were supposed to at least lower ISK generation (to 60k ISK per clone) three months ago, but for some unknown reason that has never happened. Just do these bandaid fixes and leave PC be until PC 2.0 or delete PC right now and forget it ever existed. I always love reading the "remove 'x' content please" arguments. Last thing this game needs is less content - PC is the only thing that separates this game from a 100% match-maker shooter and, well, it just barely does that at the moment. Removing ISK generation would just kill any reason to go into PC what-so-ever, the entire point of getting into PC is to make ISK and removing that defeats the entire purpose of a "risk vs reward" style gameplay. What we need is a more methodical way to go about it and one solution I really liked was having it so that clone packs could only be used to attack a district bordering a high-sec system. Gives a more tactical reason to have space in a certain area as opposed to just anywhere and it kills district locking all together in systems that -dont- border high-sec. Only thing you need to do then is make it so that systems that can be attacked by those clone packs don't make any ISK from it; as previously stated. Gives players a reason and drive to push further into low-sec and more tactical space because otherwise they're subject to just constant attacks by just anyone and they don't make anything from it, only when their clones are at capacity in the district. PC is content for what percentage of the playerbase? Of that percentage of the playerbase, what percentage get to do something more than overpaid "privates"? Even beyond that, how much of that content is anything more than simply epeen waving and deciding who to farm with next or which newcomer to **** on first. The percentage of the playerbase that actually participates in PC is inconsequentially small in comparison to the percentage that doesn't. They are the only ones that will miss it while CCP rebuilds it from the ground up. I am not even sure that any work done so far on PC 2.0 should even be kept since most likely they are moving forward with the same broken premises. The content CCP should focus on giving us is full racial parity. If anything else, I'd say that PvE should be a higher priority than PC in any shape, form or fashion. I would be willing to wait for a summer "expansion" that introduces raidable PvE as well as reintroducing PC (as a non-broken, Active source of Income Generation if we didn't need to worry about the currently broken system poisoning the rest of the game. Personally, I think expanding on the idea I presented earlier in this thread would be the perfect start for a new PC. It would make PC something that would encourage conflict as well as introducing other elements that the community has been requesting for a long time, PvE, PvEvP, player market in addition to science & industry and who can forget the fact that it would entwine Dust and Eve further (offering services to capsuleers and mercs alike through the surface infrastructure) For all of the talk of BPOs being a detriment to the Dust economy, they are a drop in the bucket compared to the isk that is generated from nothing everyday under the current PC mechanics. I am fairly certain that anyone who can't see or admit that is simply trying to protect their cash cow no matter what the longterm damage to the game may be. Which is more important to you, being stupid rich in a game on life support; or giving up your golden goose before travelling down Dust's road to recovery?
everyone already knows the answer. Why do you think this game is on life support in the first place?
I am the real Darken
|
Sentient Archon
1458
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 15:27:00 -
[118] - Quote
CCP Logibro wrote:It's something we're aware of, and we're working on fixing it. Can't give a date as Chinese New Year means most of Shanghai is on holidays starting about now.
This means for 28 days we get zilch ! GG
The only troll to successfully troll CCP.
|
Alaika Arbosa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc.
Interstellar Murder of Crows
1436
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 15:28:00 -
[119] - Quote
Drapedup Drippedout wrote:Alaika Arbosa wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Bendtner92 wrote:I just don't get how hard it can be to remove ISK generation and fix the refunding exploit. Those two things would solve this problem right away. After that they can look at doing things like increasing the payout for winning.
They don't need to fix every single problem with PC as it's going to be deleted when PC 2.0 comes around. They just need to do those small bandaids.
It's also funny they were supposed to at least lower ISK generation (to 60k ISK per clone) three months ago, but for some unknown reason that has never happened. Just do these bandaid fixes and leave PC be until PC 2.0 or delete PC right now and forget it ever existed. I always love reading the "remove 'x' content please" arguments. Last thing this game needs is less content - PC is the only thing that separates this game from a 100% match-maker shooter and, well, it just barely does that at the moment. Removing ISK generation would just kill any reason to go into PC what-so-ever, the entire point of getting into PC is to make ISK and removing that defeats the entire purpose of a "risk vs reward" style gameplay. What we need is a more methodical way to go about it and one solution I really liked was having it so that clone packs could only be used to attack a district bordering a high-sec system. Gives a more tactical reason to have space in a certain area as opposed to just anywhere and it kills district locking all together in systems that -dont- border high-sec. Only thing you need to do then is make it so that systems that can be attacked by those clone packs don't make any ISK from it; as previously stated. Gives players a reason and drive to push further into low-sec and more tactical space because otherwise they're subject to just constant attacks by just anyone and they don't make anything from it, only when their clones are at capacity in the district. PC is content for what percentage of the playerbase? Of that percentage of the playerbase, what percentage get to do something more than overpaid "privates"? Even beyond that, how much of that content is anything more than simply epeen waving and deciding who to farm with next or which newcomer to **** on first. The percentage of the playerbase that actually participates in PC is inconsequentially small in comparison to the percentage that doesn't. They are the only ones that will miss it while CCP rebuilds it from the ground up. I am not even sure that any work done so far on PC 2.0 should even be kept since most likely they are moving forward with the same broken premises. The content CCP should focus on giving us is full racial parity. If anything else, I'd say that PvE should be a higher priority than PC in any shape, form or fashion. I would be willing to wait for a summer "expansion" that introduces raidable PvE as well as reintroducing PC (as a non-broken, Active source of Income Generation if we didn't need to worry about the currently broken system poisoning the rest of the game. Personally, I think expanding on the idea I presented earlier in this thread would be the perfect start for a new PC. It would make PC something that would encourage conflict as well as introducing other elements that the community has been requesting for a long time, PvE, PvEvP, player market in addition to science & industry and who can forget the fact that it would entwine Dust and Eve further (offering services to capsuleers and mercs alike through the surface infrastructure) For all of the talk of BPOs being a detriment to the Dust economy, they are a drop in the bucket compared to the isk that is generated from nothing everyday under the current PC mechanics. I am fairly certain that anyone who can't see or admit that is simply trying to protect their cash cow no matter what the longterm damage to the game may be. Which is more important to you, being stupid rich in a game on life support; or giving up your golden goose before travelling down Dust's road to recovery? Honestly PC is where you get to see this game shine. I mean really shine. Weapons are balanced, teams are working together, they are highly stressful situations but they are also A LOT of fun. PC is what this game should be balanced around as it is 16 v 16 in full proto, fully organized and working towards one objective. I truly wish the entire community had the opportunity to see that this game has so much more to offer beyond pubs. PC should be the holy land for corps and the end game content for this game. PC in its current form is truly fun, CCP just needs to balance to the isk risk v reward system.
I am happy that you feel that way, sadly, I'd wager you are in the minority.
Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives
Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten
Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta
|
ANON Cerberus
Tiny Toons
222
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 15:37:00 -
[120] - Quote
The more I play this game the more I realise the only thing keeping me here is the banter in corp squads. Play solo and you soon realise the game is stale and boring.
The graphics are pretty bad, the shooting mechanic is bad, my control scheme is supposedly supported but barely works correctly. PC matches are just a lag fest. Half of the maps if not more don't run at a consistent / decent framerate.
Shall I go on? I wonder, why DO I play this game?
Issues that have been here for over a year are STILL prevalent. CCP DEVS constantly away, the few that are here spout out the same party line "We are aware and are looking into it". BS CCP dont even try and lie to us. You dont give a damn , this is just a ploy to get more people to play EVE.
On top of that I went to check the EVE-O forums and you are breaking everything over there too. Yes I am disappointed. I don't think this game will ever reach its potential. |
|
|
Drapedup Drippedout
0uter.Heaven
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
257
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 15:54:00 -
[121] - Quote
ANON Cerberus wrote:The more I play this game the more I realise the only thing keeping me here is the banter in corp squads. Play solo and you soon realise the game is stale and boring.
The graphics are pretty bad, the shooting mechanic is bad, my control scheme is supposedly supported but barely works correctly. PC matches are just a lag fest. Half of the maps if not more don't run at a consistent / decent framerate.
Shall I go on? I wonder, why DO I play this game?
Issues that have been here for over a year are STILL prevalent. CCP DEVS constantly away, the few that are here spout out the same party line "We are aware and are looking into it". BS CCP dont even try and lie to us. You dont give a damn , this is just a ploy to get more people to play EVE.
On top of that I went to check the EVE-O forums and you are breaking everything over there too. Yes I am disappointed. I don't think this game will ever reach its potential.
PC's have not lagged since the equip lag spam hotpatch a few weeks back. I get more lag in pubs than PC. |
Patrick57
Fatal Absolution
Covert Intervention
4448
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 16:13:00 -
[122] - Quote
Alaika Arbosa wrote:This isn't a welfare state, if you want that go find it somewhere other than New Eden. What makes you think you are entitled to free money that is printed from nothing?
Guess what?
You're not, no one is. So what your Alliance/Corporation owns a District. Oh, you say you are entitled to the free money just because you won the fight? It shouldn't work that way.
Look at it this way, seizing the District is like seizing the ingredients to make cookies. Just because you have those ingredients doesn't mean you get to eat the cookies. You need to prep the dough, add the semi sweet morsels, mix them in evenly, mold the dough into little balls and then bake them into cookies; only then can you eat the cookies.
Seizing the District should give you access to X amount of potential PvE income per day. If you don't kill the mobs, you don't get the income. Just because you "own" the District doesn't mean you can farm your mobs unmolested. No, you need to defend your District from any raiders that show up to kill your mobs and claim your income. If you can't defend your District adequately, they will rob you blind. If you expand beyond what you can reasonably defend/patrol, you'll end up footing the bill for others to profit. Oh, did I forget to mention that you don't just get access to "your District" for free, you need to pay CONCORD their property tax. The upside is that you can profit by opening your structures to the public and charging them for access. Do you have a Production facility? Well, you can turn a decent profit by allowing both eggers and mercs the opportunity to utilize your manufacturing slots. Each type of facility allows you a seperate service which you can offer to the public for a price as well as X amount of potential PvE income for you to defend/farm.
There you have it, a working model for Active Income Generation rather than farming fights with blues or locking Districts or (worst of all) sitting there with your thumb up your ass while still getting paid.
Too bad you wasted all your time typing about district locking when I was talking about the ISK a district produces in the first place.
Winner of at least 11 King ThunderBolt hate videos :D
Even Fatal Absolution has a hate video!!
|
TheD1CK
Dead Man's Game
497
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 16:17:00 -
[123] - Quote
PC has seemed close to fixed for a while...
The real issue is what the players have done in PC, the exploits they found and took advantage of
CCP should most certainly punish any players involved in exploits, as they are the cause of PC
having to be removed and also the cause of pub servers being over-run in proto gear
which has killed off a huge section of the playerbase.....
Minmatar Demolitions Specialist
Plasma Cannon Pro
|
Alaika Arbosa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc.
Interstellar Murder of Crows
1436
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 16:23:00 -
[124] - Quote
Patrick57 wrote:Alaika Arbosa wrote:This isn't a welfare state, if you want that go find it somewhere other than New Eden. What makes you think you are entitled to free money that is printed from nothing?
Guess what?
You're not, no one is. So what your Alliance/Corporation owns a District. Oh, you say you are entitled to the free money just because you won the fight? It shouldn't work that way.
Look at it this way, seizing the District is like seizing the ingredients to make cookies. Just because you have those ingredients doesn't mean you get to eat the cookies. You need to prep the dough, add the semi sweet morsels, mix them in evenly, mold the dough into little balls and then bake them into cookies; only then can you eat the cookies.
Seizing the District should give you access to X amount of potential PvE income per day. If you don't kill the mobs, you don't get the income. Just because you "own" the District doesn't mean you can farm your mobs unmolested. No, you need to defend your District from any raiders that show up to kill your mobs and claim your income. If you can't defend your District adequately, they will rob you blind. If you expand beyond what you can reasonably defend/patrol, you'll end up footing the bill for others to profit. Oh, did I forget to mention that you don't just get access to "your District" for free, you need to pay CONCORD their property tax. The upside is that you can profit by opening your structures to the public and charging them for access. Do you have a Production facility? Well, you can turn a decent profit by allowing both eggers and mercs the opportunity to utilize your manufacturing slots. Each type of facility allows you a seperate service which you can offer to the public for a price as well as X amount of potential PvE income for you to defend/farm.
There you have it, a working model for Active Income Generation rather than farming fights with blues or locking Districts or (worst of all) sitting there with your thumb up your ass while still getting paid. Too bad you wasted all your time typing about district locking when I was talking about the ISK a district produces in the first place.
Wow, could you be any more dense?
I was talking about District Isk Generation too.
Locked or not, current PC system is broken and has been since implementation. It needs to be scrapped entirely and reworked from square one.
Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives
Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten
Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta
|
ANON Cerberus
Tiny Toons
226
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 16:41:00 -
[125] - Quote
Drapedup Drippedout wrote:ANON Cerberus wrote:The more I play this game the more I realise the only thing keeping me here is the banter in corp squads. Play solo and you soon realise the game is stale and boring.
The graphics are pretty bad, the shooting mechanic is bad, my control scheme is supposedly supported but barely works correctly. PC matches are just a lag fest. Half of the maps if not more don't run at a consistent / decent framerate.
Shall I go on? I wonder, why DO I play this game?
Issues that have been here for over a year are STILL prevalent. CCP DEVS constantly away, the few that are here spout out the same party line "We are aware and are looking into it". BS CCP dont even try and lie to us. You dont give a damn , this is just a ploy to get more people to play EVE.
On top of that I went to check the EVE-O forums and you are breaking everything over there too. Yes I am disappointed. I don't think this game will ever reach its potential. PC's have not lagged since the equip lag spam hotpatch a few weeks back. I get more lag in pubs than PC.
I find that very hard to believe, certain maps always stutter and have **** poor framerate in pubs, there is no way that in PC this is miraculously gone.
Besides I have read in other places that PC still sucks balls for framerate. Granted they helped to fix equipment spam but that is not the core issue, just one of many. |
Bradric Banewolf
D3M3NT3D M1NDZ
The Umbra Combine
63
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 17:09:00 -
[126] - Quote
Spectral Clone wrote:Bye PC, you wont be missed.
Exactly! Cost more to fight in the battles effectively than it does to just lock the districts?! That's why they all locked duh?! I run factional and pubs cuz it's actually profitable. Nyain san owns 25% of molden heath currently. Fighting them in the pubs is rediculous?! Full proto every time for months. I just fight em in my frontline fit lol! Still get kills lol! In fact I've made it my business to fight in frontline and basic gear to watch the wallet, and enhance stick skills. Becoming too dependent on proto gear makes players slack when their money runs low. PC has been broke since day 1. Lagged out and takes no tactics. Just overwhelm the enemy with fully proto heavies and everybody just gets slaughtered. Tanks are useless in the main point areas of tye maps, and so is assault tactics. I've fought in enough to know it's worthless currently. Won a few, and lost a few with the fight being virtually the same every time.
"Anybody order chaos?"
|
Soldier Sorajord
Subsonic Synthesis
RISE of LEGION
39
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 17:19:00 -
[127] - Quote
ANON Cerberus wrote:DUST 514 - can be fun, but this game is totally broken! CCP you need to get the plasters out!
People with so much isk they dont even have to EVER worry. Do you still wonder why noobs keep quitting?
The funny thing is there has been talking of what to do with the blueprint suits and stuff "because it hurts the economy" (That does not even exist yet) HA! Comical.
Remove the scanners , remove aim assist. Let people actually aim for themselves instead of this ridiculous bullet magnetiser aimbot.
DJINN Maul actually ended up sending me a message saying "I have endless ISK" after I blew up his poorly assembled tanks 5 times. Really?
Limit number of districts a corp can have per member. Really. People don't need 1 Billion isk everyday for PC. It's NOT NECESSARY. Please.
Getting tired of the players proto stomping. Wanna know why they can? Because they sit on about 10% of Molden Heath's districts. That means tons of isk everyday, so they can just throw away the game's best gear. This isn't fair to the rest of us who have to play ambushes with MLT gear to break even. Cmon.
Sora's the name. Gallente is my game.
Yup! Gallente Specialist Here :)
Subsonic.
|
ReGnYuM
Escrow Removal and Acquisition
2000
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 17:32:00 -
[128] - Quote
The only issue right now with PC is the locking. Once this is fixed I see no problem.
If you honestly have a problem with corps farming ISK then make a PC team and do something about it. The point is, getting established in PC is very hard and 90% of the people who complain in this thread neither have the ability or dedication to thrive in Molden Heath.
We earned ISK unlike players who run BPO's and farm pubs with no risk
Official Imperfect Title: Supreme Leader of the Endless Sunset
I Slay, for thy Empress
Do you even PC... Brah
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MassiveNine
0uter.Heaven
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
818
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 17:32:00 -
[129] - Quote
Alaika Arbosa wrote:Drapedup Drippedout wrote:Alaika Arbosa wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Bendtner92 wrote:I just don't get how hard it can be to remove ISK generation and fix the refunding exploit. Those two things would solve this problem right away. After that they can look at doing things like increasing the payout for winning.
They don't need to fix every single problem with PC as it's going to be deleted when PC 2.0 comes around. They just need to do those small bandaids.
It's also funny they were supposed to at least lower ISK generation (to 60k ISK per clone) three months ago, but for some unknown reason that has never happened. Just do these bandaid fixes and leave PC be until PC 2.0 or delete PC right now and forget it ever existed. I always love reading the "remove 'x' content please" arguments. Last thing this game needs is less content - PC is the only thing that separates this game from a 100% match-maker shooter and, well, it just barely does that at the moment. Removing ISK generation would just kill any reason to go into PC what-so-ever, the entire point of getting into PC is to make ISK and removing that defeats the entire purpose of a "risk vs reward" style gameplay. What we need is a more methodical way to go about it and one solution I really liked was having it so that clone packs could only be used to attack a district bordering a high-sec system. Gives a more tactical reason to have space in a certain area as opposed to just anywhere and it kills district locking all together in systems that -dont- border high-sec. Only thing you need to do then is make it so that systems that can be attacked by those clone packs don't make any ISK from it; as previously stated. Gives players a reason and drive to push further into low-sec and more tactical space because otherwise they're subject to just constant attacks by just anyone and they don't make anything from it, only when their clones are at capacity in the district. PC is content for what percentage of the playerbase? Of that percentage of the playerbase, what percentage get to do something more than overpaid "privates"? Even beyond that, how much of that content is anything more than simply epeen waving and deciding who to farm with next or which newcomer to **** on first. The percentage of the playerbase that actually participates in PC is inconsequentially small in comparison to the percentage that doesn't. They are the only ones that will miss it while CCP rebuilds it from the ground up. I am not even sure that any work done so far on PC 2.0 should even be kept since most likely they are moving forward with the same broken premises. The content CCP should focus on giving us is full racial parity. If anything else, I'd say that PvE should be a higher priority than PC in any shape, form or fashion. I would be willing to wait for a summer "expansion" that introduces raidable PvE as well as reintroducing PC (as a non-broken, Active source of Income Generation if we didn't need to worry about the currently broken system poisoning the rest of the game. Personally, I think expanding on the idea I presented earlier in this thread would be the perfect start for a new PC. It would make PC something that would encourage conflict as well as introducing other elements that the community has been requesting for a long time, PvE, PvEvP, player market in addition to science & industry and who can forget the fact that it would entwine Dust and Eve further (offering services to capsuleers and mercs alike through the surface infrastructure) For all of the talk of BPOs being a detriment to the Dust economy, they are a drop in the bucket compared to the isk that is generated from nothing everyday under the current PC mechanics. I am fairly certain that anyone who can't see or admit that is simply trying to protect their cash cow no matter what the longterm damage to the game may be. Which is more important to you, being stupid rich in a game on life support; or giving up your golden goose before travelling down Dust's road to recovery? Honestly PC is where you get to see this game shine. I mean really shine. Weapons are balanced, teams are working together, they are highly stressful situations but they are also A LOT of fun. PC is what this game should be balanced around as it is 16 v 16 in full proto, fully organized and working towards one objective. I truly wish the entire community had the opportunity to see that this game has so much more to offer beyond pubs. PC should be the holy land for corps and the end game content for this game. PC in its current form is truly fun, CCP just needs to balance to the isk risk v reward system. I am happy that you feel that way, sadly, I'd wager you are in the minority.
Going on what was said here, I dont think he wanted to remove all isk generation from districts, but since we KNOW that ccp keeps records how hard would it be for them to see who locked districts they can easily remove all isk generated from locekd districts
Official DUST514 LAV Mechanic
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Ares 514
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
384
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Posted - 2014.01.30 17:37:00 -
[130] - Quote
TheD1CK wrote:PC has seemed close to fixed for a while...
The real issue is what the players have done in PC, the exploits they found and took advantage of
CCP should most certainly punish any players involved in exploits, as they are the cause of PC
having to be removed and also the cause of pub servers being over-run in proto gear
which has killed off a huge section of the playerbase.....
Actually I blame CCP fully for this. I have personally posted bug reports and other posts in various forums in an attempt to have CCP do something about this very issue. They ignored me and MANY others and let it fester. Locking districts must cost ISK not refund it and ISK generation needs to be dialed to 0 or at most a bare minimum. Pay to fight, not to own.
Please fix the mic bubble bug...
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Skihids
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
2777
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Posted - 2014.01.30 17:42:00 -
[131] - Quote
Bayeth Mal wrote:To be honest this ISK generation through district locking actually puts me off the game, I'll tolerate tank spam, redline headglitching thales, slayer logis, Scotty etc. But this renders any and all attempts to earn and save ISK a waste of time, thereby negating the theme and meta narrative of the game. No matter how much I play, I can't make as much as players who may have actually given up playing entirely. This is a worse impact on the potential economy than BPO's.
Instead of players using this ISK for proto stomping it'll be officer stomping.
Personally I think because of this the player market should be delayed until at least a year after PC is fixed. Possibly longer.
The removal of he risk/reward mechanic is the real motivation killer. Going up against players who have a rich benefactor handing out free proto gear tilts the playing field 90 degrees. You are fighting a huge headwind each time. It's not good for the rich either as removing risk removes the fun as well. You may as well play CoD where you don't lose any gear either. It leads to boredom.
I know why they do it and I'm not blaming them for it because it's human nature to take advantage of every opportunity to get ahead. We don't need bans.
I blame CCP for being negligent in its design. It's not rocket science, you can do some simple math and realize what the incentives will produce. You can even bypass all that "hard stuff" and read the work posted on the forums.
PC is a fringe mechanic that is hurting the core of the game. |
ANON Cerberus
Tiny Toons
226
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 17:51:00 -
[132] - Quote
ReGnYuM wrote:The only issue right now with PC is the locking. Once this is fixed I see no problem.
If you honestly have a problem with corps farming ISK then make a PC team and do something about it. The point is, getting established in PC is very hard and 90% of the people who complain in this thread neither have the ability or dedication to thrive in Molden Heath.
We earned ISK unlike players who run BPO's and farm pubs with no risk
You have some sound logic there, however my previous experience of PC battles put me off until I am convinced otherwise. I used to fight a little (Not loads but I did some battles n PC) back in ANONYMOUS. I may well fight in PC again.
You mention people using BPO`s in pubs, hell sometimes I even run starter suits as I have no other way to make isk. When you are threw head first into matches where you encounter 1 or 2 squads of proto, I do kill them sometimes. Granted I get my ass handed to me as well but the amount of times I have seen proto users lose 10+ proto kits in a match, I message them and ask them how they can afford it and they just reply with a laugh.
So if running proto and losing proto really affects me yet does not effect the 'elites' what would you suggest I do to counter this?
The only way I could ever compete in PC is to first build up a stocklpile of isk to begin with, hence BPO suits and militia starter fits.
When you are on the other side of this fence buddy it is a lot different. I know you dont have to worry about such things.
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Drapedup Drippedout
0uter.Heaven
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
257
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Posted - 2014.01.30 17:52:00 -
[133] - Quote
ANON Cerberus wrote:Drapedup Drippedout wrote:ANON Cerberus wrote:The more I play this game the more I realise the only thing keeping me here is the banter in corp squads. Play solo and you soon realise the game is stale and boring.
The graphics are pretty bad, the shooting mechanic is bad, my control scheme is supposedly supported but barely works correctly. PC matches are just a lag fest. Half of the maps if not more don't run at a consistent / decent framerate.
Shall I go on? I wonder, why DO I play this game?
Issues that have been here for over a year are STILL prevalent. CCP DEVS constantly away, the few that are here spout out the same party line "We are aware and are looking into it". BS CCP dont even try and lie to us. You dont give a damn , this is just a ploy to get more people to play EVE.
On top of that I went to check the EVE-O forums and you are breaking everything over there too. Yes I am disappointed. I don't think this game will ever reach its potential. PC's have not lagged since the equip lag spam hotpatch a few weeks back. I get more lag in pubs than PC. I find that very hard to believe, certain maps always stutter and have **** poor framerate in pubs, there is no way that in PC this is miraculously gone. Besides I have read in other places that PC still sucks balls for framerate. Granted they helped to fix equipment spam but that is not the core issue, just one of many.
Maybe, I am speaking just from personal experience, and what our corp has experienced. The lag issues are a far cry from what they used to be. |
ANON Cerberus
Tiny Toons
227
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 18:02:00 -
[134] - Quote
Drapedup Drippedout wrote:ANON Cerberus wrote:Drapedup Drippedout wrote:ANON Cerberus wrote:The more I play this game the more I realise the only thing keeping me here is the banter in corp squads. Play solo and you soon realise the game is stale and boring.
The graphics are pretty bad, the shooting mechanic is bad, my control scheme is supposedly supported but barely works correctly. PC matches are just a lag fest. Half of the maps if not more don't run at a consistent / decent framerate.
Shall I go on? I wonder, why DO I play this game?
Issues that have been here for over a year are STILL prevalent. CCP DEVS constantly away, the few that are here spout out the same party line "We are aware and are looking into it". BS CCP dont even try and lie to us. You dont give a damn , this is just a ploy to get more people to play EVE.
On top of that I went to check the EVE-O forums and you are breaking everything over there too. Yes I am disappointed. I don't think this game will ever reach its potential. PC's have not lagged since the equip lag spam hotpatch a few weeks back. I get more lag in pubs than PC. I find that very hard to believe, certain maps always stutter and have **** poor framerate in pubs, there is no way that in PC this is miraculously gone. Besides I have read in other places that PC still sucks balls for framerate. Granted they helped to fix equipment spam but that is not the core issue, just one of many. Maybe, I am speaking just from personal experience, and what our corp has experienced. The lag issues are a far cry from what they used to be.
Well that is good to hear. I do hope they get the issues all ironed out. PC was fun when it worked. I just found that 80% + of the time it didn't work too well. |
Criteria Shipment
Blood Unit 13
Zero-Day
729
|
Posted - 2014.01.30 19:00:00 -
[135] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:If you have any creative solutions (as in within current rule sets) the CPM still have an open ear.
CPM knows this has been (and for a long while knew) a problem and are trying to work with CCP and the community on a favorable solution.
PVE
Goodbye, world!
(püú-ÿ+í-ÿ-é)
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Badgerr Rager
Black Phoenix Mercenaries
Legacy Rising
616
|
Posted - 2014.01.31 03:08:00 -
[136] - Quote
I agree with this idea and support it.
It brings true mercenary work and brings more battles !
Would beat this whole pc shadow battles as well.
BlackPhoenix Elder Council Member
Legacy Rising Dust Relations
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Aeon Amadi
Ancient Exiles.
Renegade Alliance
4782
|
Posted - 2014.02.01 16:08:00 -
[137] - Quote
Such stark opposition, disagreement and a general consensus all saying "remove ISK generation, increase ISK payouts". I don't think anyone really sat down and thought that out, at all.
How does it solve district locking if not promote it? If I am not making ISK from the selling of clones on a district filled to capacity, than it's pointless to have that district in the first place if not to coax other entities to attack it - which is essentially putting it up on the chopping block to lose it...
Further more, if that's the case, why not just attack it with a dummy corp anyway? I'm making more (guaranteed) money from doing so, thereby I could just throw clones back and forth between two or more districts with two separate corporations - not like I'm making any money from them at maximum capacity anyway. It's Red vs Blue but with profit as the main selling point.
And as far as the "minority" argument goes, I find it almost insulting. Let's go over a few of the "minority" aspects that were removed from the game because they didn't work as intended:
Marauder HAVs.
Black Ops HAVs.
Enforcer HAVs.
Remote Vehicle Armor Repairers/Shield Transporters
Corp Battles.
Those are just the ones I can name off the top of my head. Add Planetary Conquest to mix for the sake of "fixing it" and what we're left with is literally a game focusing on a terrible public match-maker which has received plenty of complaints and evidence that it is not working optimally, a faction warfare system which isn't self-sustaining and a three match new player academy. This game would become -more- a lobby shooter with little to no control over what kind of impact you have, leaving the only real "Eve/Dust Link" that would exist would be on sparse occasion in Faction Warfare.
Beyond that, you're killing off any aspect of the game's persistence; albeit the thin veil of territorial control in FW, I guess, could be considered that.
I'm against poorly thought out "band-aid" solutions that would do more harm than good and I'm starkly against removing more content from the game when it's likely to never return given the glacial pace of meaningful change that does occur in this game. Disagree how you may but at least do us the service of coming up with a viable solution.
Useful Links
//forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=133588
//forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134182
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Aeon Amadi
Ancient Exiles.
Renegade Alliance
4782
|
Posted - 2014.02.01 16:14:00 -
[138] - Quote
ANON Cerberus wrote:ReGnYuM wrote:The only issue right now with PC is the locking. Once this is fixed I see no problem.
If you honestly have a problem with corps farming ISK then make a PC team and do something about it. The point is, getting established in PC is very hard and 90% of the people who complain in this thread neither have the ability or dedication to thrive in Molden Heath.
We earned ISK unlike players who run BPO's and farm pubs with no risk You have some sound logic there, however my previous experience of PC battles put me off until I am convinced otherwise. I used to fight a little (Not loads but I did some battles n PC) back in ANONYMOUS. I may well fight in PC again. You mention people using BPO`s in pubs, hell sometimes I even run starter suits as I have no other way to make isk. When you are threw head first into matches where you encounter 1 or 2 squads of proto, I do kill them sometimes. Granted I get my ass handed to me as well but the amount of times I have seen proto users lose 10+ proto kits in a match, I message them and ask them how they can afford it and they just reply with a laugh. So if running proto and losing proto really affects me yet does not effect the 'elites' what would you suggest I do to counter this? The only way I could ever compete in PC is to first build up a stocklpile of isk to begin with, hence BPO suits and militia starter fits. When you are on the other side of this fence buddy it is a lot different. I know you dont have to worry about such things.
Solution to that (and I'm fully prepared to hear all the nay-sayers complain about this) is to just remove the tiers all together and have just Frames and Specialist (Assault/Scout/etc) suits. Do away with the Militia/Standard/Advanced non-sense all together and leave it with just the Frames and the two suits that they branch off of.
Way easier to balance four Assault suits on one level than it is to balance twelve of them. Plus it levels the playing field dramatically, leaving the outcome of a fight to individual fit, player skill and actual skill level investment. "Proto-stomping" wouldn't exist any longer because it'd be entirely phased out and it would pave the way for future content to be more easily implemented.
Useful Links
//forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=133588
//forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134182
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xxwhitedevilxx M
Maphia Clan Corporation
1620
|
Posted - 2014.02.01 16:23:00 -
[139] - Quote
ReGnYuM wrote:The only issue right now with PC is the locking. Once this is fixed I see no problem.
- Intercontinental matches where one of the two side actually benefits the server, imo, is a problem.
- Reinforcement windows at 12 ET? would you really attack them?
- Eve OS: you shouldn't be able to launch an OS as soon as you spawn in; this way batlles are simply decided Eve-Side.
Tank 514.
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Bendtner92
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
1601
|
Posted - 2014.02.01 16:39:00 -
[140] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Such stark opposition, disagreement and a general consensus all saying "remove ISK generation, increase ISK payouts". I don't think anyone really sat down and thought that out, at all.
How does it solve district locking if not promote it? If I am not making ISK from the selling of clones on a district filled to capacity, than it's pointless to have that district in the first place if not to coax other entities to attack it - which is essentially putting it up on the chopping block to lose it...
Further more, if that's the case, why not just attack it with a dummy corp anyway? I'm making more (guaranteed) money from doing so, thereby I could just throw clones back and forth between two or more districts with two separate corporations - not like I'm making any money from them at maximum capacity anyway. It's Red vs Blue but with profit as the main selling point.
Removing ISK generation and fixing the refunding exploit would indeed solve district locking (with a profit), and certainly wouldn't promote it.
You wouldn't be able to just attack yourself either with a clone pack or from another district while making money from it.
If you're using clone packs it costs you 36m each attack and even if rewards were increased to for example 200k ISK per clone killed, you still wouldn't be able to make a profit.
If you're attacking from another district you might be able to make a small profit from each battle, but the attacking district can ALWAYS be attacked by anyone else.
PC does not need a complete redesign at this point. PC 2.0 shouldn't be too far of, so there's absolutely no reason to begin demanding huge changes to PC. At the moment PC just needs the few bandaid fixes in the form of removed ISK generation, fixed refunding exploit and possibly a ISK payout increase. Doing that would keep PC running at a reasonable level until it can be replaced by PC 2.0.
Edit: When I'm talking about removing ISK generation I wouldn't have a problem if it stayed at a symbolic value of 10-20k per clone sold. With 20k per clone it would be less than 2m ISK per district per day. Currently districts make 8m+ each day which is simply way too much.
Winner of the EU Squad Cup & the closed beta Tester's Tournament.
Go Go Power Rangers!
R.I.P MAG.
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Sgt Kirk
Fatal Absolution
Covert Intervention
4317
|
Posted - 2014.02.01 16:42:00 -
[141] - Quote
xxwhitedevilxx M wrote:ReGnYuM wrote:The only issue right now with PC is the locking. Once this is fixed I see no problem.
- Intercontinental matches where one of the two side actually benefits the server, imo, is a problem. - Reinforcement windows at 12 ET? would you really attack them? - Eve OS: you shouldn't be able to launch an OS as soon as you spawn in; this way batlles are simply decided Eve-Side.
Agree with first point
Agree with second point
Don't agree with third point. That's more of a matter of having superiority. Which should always be rewarded. |
Arkena Wyrnspire
Fatal Absolution
Covert Intervention
8771
|
Posted - 2014.02.01 16:43:00 -
[142] - Quote
Sgt Kirk wrote:xxwhitedevilxx M wrote:ReGnYuM wrote:The only issue right now with PC is the locking. Once this is fixed I see no problem.
- Intercontinental matches where one of the two side actually benefits the server, imo, is a problem. - Reinforcement windows at 12 ET? would you really attack them? - Eve OS: you shouldn't be able to launch an OS as soon as you spawn in; this way batlles are simply decided Eve-Side. Agree with first point Agree with second point Don't agree with third point. That's more of a matter of having superiority. Which should always be rewarded.
TBH, being killed on spawning by an OB is a pretty **** mechanic. EVE support would still reward you with orbitals even if you weren't able to do it on match start.
ZATARA CARRIES US ALL
Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution
MAG Raven
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xxwhitedevilxx M
Maphia Clan Corporation
1620
|
Posted - 2014.02.01 16:53:00 -
[143] - Quote
Bendtner92 wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Such stark opposition, disagreement and a general consensus all saying "remove ISK generation, increase ISK payouts". I don't think anyone really sat down and thought that out, at all.
How does it solve district locking if not promote it? If I am not making ISK from the selling of clones on a district filled to capacity, than it's pointless to have that district in the first place if not to coax other entities to attack it - which is essentially putting it up on the chopping block to lose it...
Further more, if that's the case, why not just attack it with a dummy corp anyway? I'm making more (guaranteed) money from doing so, thereby I could just throw clones back and forth between two or more districts with two separate corporations - not like I'm making any money from them at maximum capacity anyway. It's Red vs Blue but with profit as the main selling point. Removing ISK generation and fixing the refunding exploit would indeed solve district locking (with a profit), and certainly wouldn't promote it. You wouldn't be able to just attack yourself either with a clone pack or from another district while making money from it. If you're using clone packs it costs you 36m each attack and even if rewards were increased to for example 200k ISK per clone killed, you still wouldn't be able to make a profit. If you're attacking from another district you might be able to make a small profit from each battle, but the attacking district can ALWAYS be attacked by anyone else. PC does not need a complete redesign at this point. PC 2.0 shouldn't be too far of, so there's absolutely no reason to begin demanding huge changes to PC. At the moment PC just needs the few bandaid fixes in the form of removed ISK generation, fixed refunding exploit and possibly a ISK payout increase. Doing that would keep PC running at a reasonable level until it can be replaced by PC 2.0. Edit: When I'm talking about removing ISK generation I wouldn't have a problem if it stayed at a symbolic value of 10-20k per clone sold. With 20k per clone it would be less than 2m ISK per district per day. Currently districts make 8m+ each day which is simply way too much.
Okay, here you're all saying that it would be good if they just fix this. But what about reinforcement windows? If the strongest asian corps made an alliance on their own they would be able to control any single district in molden heath.
It's easy: attack any district between 16 00 ET and 19 00 ET then set your reinforcement window at 10 or 12 ET. How would you "fix" that?
Tank 514.
|
Auld Syne
157
|
Posted - 2014.02.01 16:56:00 -
[144] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Sgt Kirk wrote:xxwhitedevilxx M wrote:ReGnYuM wrote:The only issue right now with PC is the locking. Once this is fixed I see no problem.
- Intercontinental matches where one of the two side actually benefits the server, imo, is a problem. - Reinforcement windows at 12 ET? would you really attack them? - Eve OS: you shouldn't be able to launch an OS as soon as you spawn in; this way batlles are simply decided Eve-Side. Agree with first point Agree with second point Don't agree with third point. That's more of a matter of having superiority. Which should always be rewarded. TBH, being killed on spawning by an OB is a pretty **** mechanic. EVE support would still reward you with orbitals even if you weren't able to do it on match start.
What about the timer only starting when the match actually starts. |
Sgt Kirk
Fatal Absolution
Covert Intervention
4319
|
Posted - 2014.02.01 16:57:00 -
[145] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Sgt Kirk wrote:xxwhitedevilxx M wrote:ReGnYuM wrote:The only issue right now with PC is the locking. Once this is fixed I see no problem.
- Intercontinental matches where one of the two side actually benefits the server, imo, is a problem. - Reinforcement windows at 12 ET? would you really attack them? - Eve OS: you shouldn't be able to launch an OS as soon as you spawn in; this way batlles are simply decided Eve-Side. Agree with first point Agree with second point Don't agree with third point. That's more of a matter of having superiority. Which should always be rewarded. TBH, being killed on spawning by an OB is a pretty **** mechanic. EVE support would still reward you with orbitals even if you weren't able to do it on match start.
I jus liek mah 'plosions. |
Bendtner92
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
1602
|
Posted - 2014.02.01 17:08:00 -
[146] - Quote
xxwhitedevilxx M wrote:Okay, here you're all saying that it would be good if they just fix this. But what about reinforcement windows? If the strongest asian corps made an alliance on their own they would be able to control any single district in molden heath.
It's easy: attack any district between 16 00 ET and 19 00 ET then set your reinforcement window at 10 or 12 ET. How would you "fix" that?
Just like Cronos tried to do?
Seriously though, what's the problem with that? Take the districts on the weekend and change the timer, or pay european or asian corps to take them? Or just don't lose your districts?
Look I'm not saying there aren't any problems at all with it, but now is not the time for huge PC changes, those should have happened months ago. Remove ISK generation and just keep PC running as it is until PC 2.0. Ideally it would likely have been better if each district had a 12 hour downtime of the owners choosing where the district couldn't be attacked while an attacker could choose to attack whenever he wanted within the other 12-hour period, but CCP shouldn't focus resources on PC anymore outside a few bandaid fixes, since that would likely delay PC 2.0.
Winner of the EU Squad Cup & the closed beta Tester's Tournament.
Go Go Power Rangers!
R.I.P MAG.
|
Arkena Wyrnspire
Fatal Absolution
Covert Intervention
8774
|
Posted - 2014.02.01 17:23:00 -
[147] - Quote
Sgt Kirk wrote:
I jus liek mah 'plosions.
Who doesn't? 
ZATARA CARRIES US ALL
Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution
MAG Raven
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xxwhitedevilxx M
Maphia Clan Corporation
1620
|
Posted - 2014.02.01 17:31:00 -
[148] - Quote
I do agree with you on certain points: they shouldn't focus resources on PC anymore. But they also shouldn't let people exploit that. I edited the message, you probably didn't read it.
Bendtner92 wrote:
Just like Cronos tried to do?
Not at all. As far as I remember we have been very vulnerable to Asian TZ. EU based corps cannot have a safe spot, or at least a reinforcement window where only other eu corps can actually attack.
Bendtner92 wrote:
Seriously though, what's the problem with that? Take the districts on the weekend and change the timer, or pay european or asian corps to take them? Or just don't lose your districts?
That's the problem, my friend. You can actually pay some other corp in order to take a district fo you, yes you can. You can even change the timer of course. The entire problem lies here: a decent EU timer, for me, is 17 00 ET. But then, I would suffer both Asian and EU attacks. Let's try again: 18 00 ET is still decent for EU. But again, you would suffer attacks from EU, Asia and early easter americans. 19 00 ET slowly turning Americas timezone. 20 00 ET Americas TZ.
Tank 514.
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Aeon Amadi
Ancient Exiles.
Renegade Alliance
4782
|
Posted - 2014.02.01 20:53:00 -
[149] - Quote
Bendtner92 wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Such stark opposition, disagreement and a general consensus all saying "remove ISK generation, increase ISK payouts". I don't think anyone really sat down and thought that out, at all.
How does it solve district locking if not promote it? If I am not making ISK from the selling of clones on a district filled to capacity, than it's pointless to have that district in the first place if not to coax other entities to attack it - which is essentially putting it up on the chopping block to lose it...
Further more, if that's the case, why not just attack it with a dummy corp anyway? I'm making more (guaranteed) money from doing so, thereby I could just throw clones back and forth between two or more districts with two separate corporations - not like I'm making any money from them at maximum capacity anyway. It's Red vs Blue but with profit as the main selling point. Removing ISK generation and fixing the refunding exploit would indeed solve district locking (with a profit), and certainly wouldn't promote it. You wouldn't be able to just attack yourself either with a clone pack or from another district while making money from it. If you're using clone packs it costs you 36m each attack and even if rewards were increased to for example 200k ISK per clone killed, you still wouldn't be able to make a profit. If you're attacking from another district you might be able to make a small profit from each battle, but the attacking district can ALWAYS be attacked by anyone else. PC does not need a complete redesign at this point. PC 2.0 shouldn't be too far of, so there's absolutely no reason to begin demanding huge changes to PC. At the moment PC just needs the few bandaid fixes in the form of removed ISK generation, fixed refunding exploit and possibly a ISK payout increase. Doing that would keep PC running at a reasonable level until it can be replaced by PC 2.0. Edit: When I'm talking about removing ISK generation I wouldn't have a problem if it stayed at a symbolic value of 10-20k per clone sold. With 20k per clone it would be less than 2m ISK per district per day. Currently districts make 8m+ each day which is simply way too much.
It's not just he 200k isk per clone; there's usually a baseline 1,000,000 per player active. Fielding a 16 man team and killing off all 120 clones would net you a 4m ISK profit.
And yes, the attacking district can always be attacked by anyone else - including your dummy corp that you're using to lock up the districts in the first place.
There's no easy way out of this, you can't just up and remove ISK generation without giving some other reason for having territory in the first place. Two million a day would cover the losses of perhaps three, maybe four people who took the time out of their day to defend it. The entire reason the ISK generation was increased to begin with was because people were losing more ISK than they were gaining, which I usually don't have much of a problem with but the band-aid proposed doesn't give any incentive to do PC at all. Corporations would be exhausting more effort to keep the districts than they were worth.
It's been eight months. At this point, we're long overdue for the meaningful interaction PC was supposed to provide; so it's not out of the realm of belief to want to see that happen. I'm a patient guy though, and I know PC 2.0 likely isn't going to come for at least another few months - on the other hand, the band aid applied shouldn't be yet another knee jerk reaction to people getting riled up and screaming "remove" or "nerf". This needs to be handled with a scalpel and none of the solutions proposed here are scalpel changes.
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Alaika Arbosa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc.
Interstellar Murder of Crows
1471
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Posted - 2014.02.01 20:58:00 -
[150] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Such stark opposition, disagreement and a general consensus all saying "remove ISK generation, increase ISK payouts". I don't think anyone really sat down and thought that out, at all.
How does it solve district locking if not promote it? If I am not making ISK from the selling of clones on a district filled to capacity, than it's pointless to have that district in the first place if not to coax other entities to attack it - which is essentially putting it up on the chopping block to lose it...
Further more, if that's the case, why not just attack it with a dummy corp anyway? I'm making more (guaranteed) money from doing so, thereby I could just throw clones back and forth between two or more districts with two separate corporations - not like I'm making any money from them at maximum capacity anyway. It's Red vs Blue but with profit as the main selling point.
And as far as the "minority" argument goes, I find it almost insulting. Let's go over a few of the "minority" aspects that were removed from the game because they didn't work as intended:
Marauder HAVs.
Black Ops HAVs.
Enforcer HAVs.
Remote Vehicle Armor Repairers/Shield Transporters
Corp Battles.
Those are just the ones I can name off the top of my head. Add Planetary Conquest to mix for the sake of "fixing it" and what we're left with is literally a game focusing on a terrible public match-maker which has received plenty of complaints and evidence that it is not working optimally, a faction warfare system which isn't self-sustaining and a three match new player academy. This game would become -more- a lobby shooter with little to no control over what kind of impact you have, leaving the only real "Eve/Dust Link" that would exist would be on sparse occasion in Faction Warfare.
Beyond that, you're killing off any aspect of the game's persistence; albeit the thin veil of territorial control in FW, I guess, could be considered that.
I'm against poorly thought out "band-aid" solutions that would do more harm than good and I'm starkly against removing more content from the game when it's likely to never return given the glacial pace of meaningful change that does occur in this game. Disagree how you may but at least do us the service of coming up with a viable solution.
PC as it exists now is little more than a cancer on the game, that (despite you viewing this as an insult) is honestly only played by a minority of the playerbase. It should be excised in its current form and reworked in such fashion that it is not simply a passive isk faucet. Oh, what ever will people do then you ask? Actually need to utilize their territory so that it isn't just sitting there gaining ISK for them. I personally like the proposal I put forward here. I can understand if the PvE part of it would have to be put on hold and it might not be immediate that the Eve/Dust connection could be made either, however, not allowing passive ISK to generate while waiting for these changes would be nothing if not a great start on the road to recovery.
Each District would provide player interaction and generate Isk through that player interaction. Different pieces of Surface Infrastructure would allow the holding corp to provide a service to Eve Corps (and Dust Corps once we had the same options given to the Eve Corps).
1) Cargo Hubs could rent Planetary Offices which would function the same as Station Offices and allow any PI production on the planet to be stowed for a modest fee (which would be deposited in the holding corporations Mercenary Wallet).
2) Production Facilities could offer Manufacturing slots to Eve Corps that functioned similarly to POS Manufacturing Arrays (though with the potential to be opened to any capsuleer) with the proceeds being deposited in the holding corporations Mercenary Wallet. In addition to this, they could perhaps offer some accelerated production times on PI processes occurring on the planet (add a popup window informing them of the cost and asking the capsuleer if they wish to utilize the accelerated process times, if they do, the fee set by the holding corp is immediately deposited in the holding corporations Mercenary Wallet).
3) Surface Research Labs could provide Research slots to Eve Corps in the same way that Production Facilities would provide Manufacturing slots.
All three of these would increase the Dust/Eve connection in addition to giving the holding Dust corporation a method by which to generate Isk. I imagine that this would be able to be implemented more rapidly than PvE as well, which is the other side of that coin. Forcing the Dust Corporation to actually "work" for their Isk would be much preferable to just giving them a handout on a silver platter. PvE mob slaying is even really work, it is more just a hoop to jump through for your treat and would outright remove the possibility to passively farm Isk at all.
Allowing Corporations to passively farm ISK in the interim would likely be the final nail in the coffin for Dust. It might not be immediately evident, though once we get a Player Market, it will become ridiculously so. The disparity between the haves and the have nots would grow to such a degree that there would be PC (whose gates would be barred from new entry by virtue of the massive gulf in finances), FW (which would only be farmed with any sustainability by those who've grown fat on PC and market transactions funded by the PIG of PC) and pubs which would become even more laughable as a protostompers playground.
PC as it exists currently needs to be burnt to ash and left as a forgotten memory. I really do want Dust to survive and prosper, however, keeping PC as it exists currently because it is "content" isn't doing Dust any favors outside of the small percentage of players involved in the Molden Heath Circlejerk.
Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives
Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten
Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta
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Michael Arck
Onuoto Uakan Huogaatsu
2977
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Posted - 2014.02.01 21:10:00 -
[151] - Quote
Passive farming ISK...problem that creates monopoly preventing corps from actually penetrating PC
Clone Packs...highly laughable when a corp entering PC only gets 100 clones. Meanwhile defender has 300 clones. The odds are stacked high.
PFC...it shows why corp battles are needed. Something that is done by CCP not PFC which was basically a joke through and through. A whole bunch of political crap surrounded by the boys club who claims to dictate and over watch it. It's confusing and no one completely understand how it runs besides the folks who just pop every now and then to chastise players for wrong decisions in PFC
In the most extreme, PC needs to be locked down and only brought back when PVE comes into play. PC has become a circle jerk. Folks are getting bored there because its the same group of guys fighting each other.
It's like the cartoons, where you see two characters fighting and its nothing but a ball of smoke rolling around. Some passerby is interested in the fight, stands there peculiar on how to get into the brawl and be victorious. The ball of smoke rolls in his direction and his dragged in, only to be spat back out with a confused look on his face.
So many corps have been destroyed and players has left because PC was supposed to be the end game for now. They couldn't break into it and they finally gave up and left Dust.
Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu.
For the State!!
[email protected]
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Abron Garr
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
697
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Posted - 2014.02.01 21:31:00 -
[152] - Quote
Sgt Kirk wrote:CCP Logibro wrote:It's something we're aware of, and we're working on fixing it. Can't give a date as Chinese New Year means most of Shanghai is on holidays starting about now. Why is it that whenever I here a Dev speak of CCP Shanghai they are always on vacation.
A large portion of CCP's posts are reminders that they are going on vacation and won't be able to post. |
Bendtner92
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
1603
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Posted - 2014.02.02 08:18:00 -
[153] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:It's not just he 200k isk per clone; there's usually a baseline 1,000,000 per player active. Fielding a 16 man team and killing off all 120 clones would net you a 4m ISK profit.
And yes, the attacking district can always be attacked by anyone else - including your dummy corp that you're using to lock up the districts in the first place.
There's no easy way out of this, you can't just up and remove ISK generation without giving some other reason for having territory in the first place. Two million a day would cover the losses of perhaps three, maybe four people who took the time out of their day to defend it. The entire reason the ISK generation was increased to begin with was because people were losing more ISK than they were gaining, which I usually don't have much of a problem with but the band-aid proposed doesn't give any incentive to do PC at all. Corporations would be exhausting more effort to keep the districts than they were worth.
It's been eight months. At this point, we're long overdue for the meaningful interaction PC was supposed to provide; so it's not out of the realm of belief to want to see that happen. I'm a patient guy though, and I know PC 2.0 likely isn't going to come for at least another few months - on the other hand, the band aid applied shouldn't be yet another knee jerk reaction to people getting riled up and screaming "remove" or "nerf". This needs to be handled with a scalpel and none of the solutions proposed here are scalpel changes.
1. There isn't a baseline million ISK per player active. You are aware that all clones killed, including your own teams, is a part of the payout to the winning team? Thus, if you kill 150 clones and lose 100 yourself the winning team will get 25 million ISK or around 1.5 million per player. There is no more ISK than what comes from clones killed.
2. If people was losing ISK even if they were winning you increase active ISK generation (ISK payouts for winning), not pump passive ISK generation to insane levels. Passive ISK generation shouldn't cover your losses, winning should, so there would be no problem with removing passive ISK generation altogether or reduce it to a symbolic value of 2 million or less ISK per district per day.
3. If you're farming active ISK generation from attacking yourself from another district, the attacking district can always be attacked by anyone else. I have no idea why you're talking about a dummy corp attacking the attacking district, because if you're locking the attacking district up with a clone pack you just threw the profit you wanted to make completely out of the window.
4. Removing passive ISK generation would not remove all incentives to have districts. You would want to have districts to be able to attack others without the use of clone packs. The incentive in PC is about getting districts to be able to attack and make ISK from winning those matches.
5. I don't want CCP to allocate resources to try and improve PC. That would be entirely pointless. Let them work on other aspects that sorely needs the work, and give PC these few bandaids to keep it running. Removing ISK generation and fixing the refunding exploit would do exactly that.
Edit: Not to mention that redesigns of PC would take a while to be implemented, meanwhile PC corps are making billions of ISK EVERY day with NO risk. Removing ISK generation and fixing the refunding exploit would put a stop to that right now.
Edit2: Passive ISK generation should never even have been implemented, so I really have no idea why you're even defending it now. Passive ISK generation is insanely stupid and just needs to be deleted and forgotten about.
Winner of the EU Squad Cup & the closed beta Tester's Tournament.
Go Go Power Rangers!
R.I.P MAG.
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Killar-12
The Corporate Raiders
Top Men.
2141
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Posted - 2014.02.02 08:34:00 -
[154] - Quote
Bendtner92 wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:It's not just he 200k isk per clone; there's usually a baseline 1,000,000 per player active. Fielding a 16 man team and killing off all 120 clones would net you a 4m ISK profit.
And yes, the attacking district can always be attacked by anyone else - including your dummy corp that you're using to lock up the districts in the first place.
There's no easy way out of this, you can't just up and remove ISK generation without giving some other reason for having territory in the first place. Two million a day would cover the losses of perhaps three, maybe four people who took the time out of their day to defend it. The entire reason the ISK generation was increased to begin with was because people were losing more ISK than they were gaining, which I usually don't have much of a problem with but the band-aid proposed doesn't give any incentive to do PC at all. Corporations would be exhausting more effort to keep the districts than they were worth.
It's been eight months. At this point, we're long overdue for the meaningful interaction PC was supposed to provide; so it's not out of the realm of belief to want to see that happen. I'm a patient guy though, and I know PC 2.0 likely isn't going to come for at least another few months - on the other hand, the band aid applied shouldn't be yet another knee jerk reaction to people getting riled up and screaming "remove" or "nerf". This needs to be handled with a scalpel and none of the solutions proposed here are scalpel changes. 1. There isn't a baseline million ISK per player active. You are aware that all clones killed, including your own teams, is a part of the payout to the winning team? Thus, if you kill 150 clones and lose 100 yourself the winning team will get 25 million ISK or around 1.5 million per player. There is no more ISK than what comes from clones killed. 2. If people was losing ISK even if they were winning you increase active ISK generation (ISK payouts for winning), not pump passive ISK generation to insane levels. Passive ISK generation shouldn't cover your losses, winning should, so there would be no problem with removing passive ISK generation altogether or reduce it to a symbolic value of 2 million or less ISK per district per day. 3. If you're farming active ISK generation from attacking yourself from another district, the attacking district can always be attacked by anyone else. I have no idea why you're talking about a dummy corp attacking the attacking district, because if you're locking the attacking district up with a clone pack you just threw the profit you wanted to make completely out of the window. 4. Removing passive ISK generation would not remove all incentives to have districts. You would want to have districts to be able to attack others without the use of clone packs. The incentive in PC is about getting districts to be able to attack and make ISK from winning those matches. 5. I don't want CCP to allocate resources to try and improve PC. That would be entirely pointless. Let them work on other aspects that sorely needs the work, and give PC these few bandaids to keep it running. Removing ISK generation and fixing the refunding exploit would do exactly that. Edit: Not to mention that redesigns of PC would take a while to be implemented, meanwhile PC corps are making billions of ISK EVERY day with NO risk. Removing ISK generation and fixing the refunding exploit would put a stop to that right now. Edit2: Passive ISK generation should never even have been implemented, so I really have no idea why you're even defending it now. Passive ISK generation is insanely stupid and just needs to be deleted and forgotten about.
This^
A-Teams win Battles B-Teams win Campaigns C-Teams win Wars
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Turtle Hermit Roshi
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
65
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Posted - 2014.02.02 08:36:00 -
[155] - Quote
bring back Corp battles 
bring back Corp battles !!!
bring back Corp battles !!!
bring back Corp battles !!!
bring back Corp battles !!!
bring back Corp battles !!!
bring back Corp battles !!!
bring back Corp battles !!!
bring back Corp battles !!!
bring back Corp battles !!!
bring back Corp battles !!!
bring back Corp battles !!!
bring back Corp battles !!!
bring back Corp battles !!!
bring back Corp battles !!!
bring back Corp battles !!!
bring back Corp battles !!!
bring back Corp battles !!!
bring back Corp battles !!!
bring back Corp battles !!!
bring back Corp battles !!!
bring back Corp battles !!!
bring back Corp battles !!!
bring back Corp battles !!!
bring back Corp battles !!!
bring back Corp battles !!!
bring back Corp battles !!!
bring back Corp battles !!!
bring back Corp battles !!!
bring back Corp battles !!!
bring back Corp battles !!!
bring back Corp battles !!!
bring back Corp battles !!!
bring back Corp battles !!!
bring back Corp battles !!!
bring back Corp battles !!!
bring back Corp battles !!!
bring back Corp battles !!!
bring back Corp battles !!!
bring back Corp battles !!!
bring back Corp battles !!!
bring back Corp battles !!!
bring back Corp battles !!!
bring back Corp battles !!!
bring back Corp battles !!!
bring back Corp battles !!!
bring back Corp battles !!!
bring back Corp battles !!!
bring back Corp battles !!!
bring back Corp battles !!!
bring back Corp battles !!!
bring back Corp battles !!!
bring back Corp battles !!!
bring back Corp battles !!!
bring back Corp battles !!!
bring back Corp battles !!!
bring back Corp battles !!!
bring back Corp battles !!!
bring back Corp battles !!!
bring back Corp battles !!!
bring back Corp battles !!!
bring back Corp battles !!!
bring back Corp battles !!!
bring back Corp battles !!!
bring back Corp battles !!!
bring back Corp battles !!!
bring back Corp battles !!!
bring back Corp battles !!!
bring back Corp battles !!!
bring back Corp battles !!!
bring back Corp battles !!!
bring back Corp battles !!!
bring back Corp battles !!!
bring back Corp battles !!!
bring back Corp battles !!!
bring back Corp battles !!!
bring back Corp battles !!!
bring back Corp battles !!!
bring back Corp battles !!!
bring back Corp battles !!!
bring back Corp battles !!!
bring back Corp battles !!!
bring back Corp battles !!!
bring back Corp battles !!!
bring back Corp battles !!!
bring back Corp battles !!!
bring back Corp battles !!!
bring back Corp battles !!!
bring back Corp battles !!!
yes i scream KA-ME-HA-MEHAAAAAA when i forge muthafuckas
the Turtle Hermit: Professional Heavy
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NobIesse Oblige
Fatal Absolution
133
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Posted - 2014.02.02 09:09:00 -
[156] - Quote
Killar-12 wrote:Bendtner92 wrote:
1. There isn't a baseline million ISK per player active. You are aware that all clones killed, including your own teams, is a part of the payout to the winning team? Thus, if you kill 150 clones and lose 100 yourself the winning team will get 25 million ISK or around 1.5 million per player. There is no more ISK than what comes from clones killed.
You're suggesting vehicles killed don't affect isk payouts?
2. If people was losing ISK even if they were winning you increase active ISK generation (ISK payouts for winning), not pump passive ISK generation to insane levels. Passive ISK generation shouldn't cover your losses, winning should, so there would be no problem with removing passive ISK generation altogether or reduce it to a symbolic value of 2 million or less ISK per district per day.
Agreed
3. If you're farming active ISK generation from attacking yourself from another district, the attacking district can always be attacked by anyone else. I have no idea why you're talking about a dummy corp attacking the attacking district, because if you're locking the attacking district up with a clone pack you just threw the profit you wanted to make completely out of the window.
currently clone pack attacks that you do not show to are refunded...if that was fixed then yeah.
4. Removing passive ISK generation would not remove all incentives to have districts. You would want to have districts to be able to attack others without the use of clone packs. The incentive in PC is about getting districts to be able to attack and make ISK from winning those matches.
My idea after removing passive isk generation is to make districts drop % drops of salvage on a timer. different district = different salvage. Thus say a district located on Ennur drops 10x Balacs on a 5% chance daily? That district would be quite contested. If you own the plane you get a modifier affecting the %
Swapping the installation would simply affect eve bonuses and the map.
5. I don't want CCP to allocate resources to try and improve PC. That would be entirely pointless. Let them work on other aspects that sorely needs the work, and give PC these few bandaids to keep it running. Removing ISK generation and fixing the refunding exploit would do exactly that.
I DO! Endgame and NPE = most important to me because that will affect the playerbase.
Edit: Not to mention that redesigns of PC would take a while to be implemented, meanwhile PC corps are making billions of ISK EVERY day with NO risk. Removing ISK generation and fixing the refunding exploit would put a stop to that right now.
Edit2: Passive ISK generation should never even have been implemented, so I really have no idea why you're even defending it now. Passive ISK generation is insanely stupid and just needs to be deleted and forgotten about.
This^
I'm CEO, Bitch
Incentivizing n00bs to carry me cir.12/13
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Bendtner92
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
1604
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Posted - 2014.02.02 09:21:00 -
[157] - Quote
NobIesse Oblige wrote:You're suggesting vehicles killed don't affect isk payouts?
Yes, the only thing that affects ISK payout in PC is the amount of clones killed on both teams. The losing team will always lose 150 clones even if less was killed, unless they had less than 150 clones at the start of the match or used a clone pack (120 clones).
Winner of the EU Squad Cup & the closed beta Tester's Tournament.
Go Go Power Rangers!
R.I.P MAG.
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Aeon Amadi
Ancient Exiles.
Renegade Alliance
4785
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Posted - 2014.02.02 12:46:00 -
[158] - Quote
Bendtner92 wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:It's not just he 200k isk per clone; there's usually a baseline 1,000,000 per player active. Fielding a 16 man team and killing off all 120 clones would net you a 4m ISK profit.
And yes, the attacking district can always be attacked by anyone else - including your dummy corp that you're using to lock up the districts in the first place.
There's no easy way out of this, you can't just up and remove ISK generation without giving some other reason for having territory in the first place. Two million a day would cover the losses of perhaps three, maybe four people who took the time out of their day to defend it. The entire reason the ISK generation was increased to begin with was because people were losing more ISK than they were gaining, which I usually don't have much of a problem with but the band-aid proposed doesn't give any incentive to do PC at all. Corporations would be exhausting more effort to keep the districts than they were worth.
It's been eight months. At this point, we're long overdue for the meaningful interaction PC was supposed to provide; so it's not out of the realm of belief to want to see that happen. I'm a patient guy though, and I know PC 2.0 likely isn't going to come for at least another few months - on the other hand, the band aid applied shouldn't be yet another knee jerk reaction to people getting riled up and screaming "remove" or "nerf". This needs to be handled with a scalpel and none of the solutions proposed here are scalpel changes. 1. There isn't a baseline million ISK per player active. You are aware that all clones killed, including your own teams, is a part of the payout to the winning team? Thus, if you kill 150 clones and lose 100 yourself the winning team will get 25 million ISK or around 1.5 million per player. There is no more ISK than what comes from clones killed. 2. If people was losing ISK even if they were winning you increase active ISK generation (ISK payouts for winning), not pump passive ISK generation to insane levels. Passive ISK generation shouldn't cover your losses, winning should, so there would be no problem with removing passive ISK generation altogether or reduce it to a symbolic value of 2 million or less ISK per district per day. 3. If you're farming active ISK generation from attacking yourself from another district, the attacking district can always be attacked by anyone else. I have no idea why you're talking about a dummy corp attacking the attacking district, because if you're locking the attacking district up with a clone pack you just threw the profit you wanted to make completely out of the window. 4. Removing passive ISK generation would not remove all incentives to have districts. You would want to have districts to be able to attack others without the use of clone packs. The incentive in PC is about getting districts to be able to attack and make ISK from winning those matches. 5. I don't want CCP to allocate resources to try and improve PC. That would be entirely pointless. Let them work on other aspects that sorely needs the work, and give PC these few bandaids to keep it running. Removing ISK generation and fixing the refunding exploit would do exactly that. Edit: Not to mention that redesigns of PC would take a while to be implemented, meanwhile PC corps are making billions of ISK EVERY day with NO risk. Removing ISK generation and fixing the refunding exploit would put a stop to that right now. Edit2: Passive ISK generation should never even have been implemented, so I really have no idea why you're even defending it now. Passive ISK generation is insanely stupid and just needs to be deleted and forgotten about.
Brosef, I've been doing PC for months now - I know how much I make when the other team no-shows with a clone pack. You still get paid a hefty amount. And the whole bit about attacking the attacking district with a dummy corp is just... I don't understand how you could -not- foresee that as a problem. You increase the payout from the win and you're just refunding them the money anyway because you -already- get plenty of ISK from a no-show on a clone pack as it is.
Removing passive ISK Generation would be a bad idea. It's nice when you have people to attack and when people are attacking you but a lot of good it's going to do you when you don't, you'll just have this block in space with your name on it being worthless. It's basically forcing corporations and alliances to fight unnecessarily, there's no reason to do it other than "for the **** of it", that doesn't make any sense at all and there is no system in Eve Online or Dust 514 that goes off of that system.
Passive ISK Generation isn't "insanely stupid", it's actually rather smart considering that you don't want them to spend extra time on PC. It gives corporations a -reason- to do PC and a reason to have districts while we wait for a way to make ISK with work involved (PvE in Null-sec Sovereignty being a primary example). Band-aids need to be applied, sure, but the band-aid your suggesting just turns PC into pub-matches where you have to start your own battles and wait a day or two before they happen.
"Edit2: Passive ISK generation should never even have been implemented, so I really have no idea why you're even defending it now."
^ This is personal incredulity.
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Mad Greasemonkey
NervousMoment.
8
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Posted - 2014.02.02 12:55:00 -
[159] - Quote
Dandeth Adloth wrote:I have to quote myself from a post in oktober...: Dandeth Adloth wrote:Can you please take PC out of the game!
It serves no pupose.
Please take note that all players of this game are waiting since forever for completion of the basics!
So give us the remaining racial suits and weapons. Do not do anything else before that!
Give us the market to sell all the crap that has accumulated in our locker.
Then, work on meaningful game variants like protect the digger:
Have Eve Players own districts with the possibility to deploy surface assets (factories, mining facilities, etc.)
Then let these Eve players fight over these assets using us Dust players (we are Mercs right).
Please spare us all this spreadsheet bs nobody wants in a shooter. Give us diverse battles with different map loadouts depending on assets that are to be protected.
Give us 1 Headquarter for the corp, where we are based and can walk around to show of our favourite suits and train for battle on a Map with deployable structures.
CCP You do not get that shooter players are NOT interested in spreadsheet immersion, we are interested in fps immersion!
We need diverse battles and maybe a hangout, that's it!
You will not get us more interested in this letdown of a game with those pathetic adjustments.
Investments in the battles themselves is the only thing that will generate interest...
Cheers That's pretty much it, remove PC assets out of Dust and into EVE. Let us Mercs fight over those assets. The Eggsters can provide OB support, and all the hassle with districts is a thing of the past. Most corps need to have EVE CEOs anyway, so no harm done if the whole district ownership goes to the Podsters. They can build the warbarges, all the gear and so on, we just do the fighting. And give them EVE dudes some real bonusses for owning districts, so far they don't give a flying Fxxx for districts... The only guys givin' a crap eve side, are pirates who just fly along and pod you for sitting on a friggin district sattelite that has a shoot me sign on it... Cheers ps. and by the way, the time until you have managed to implement a meaningful PC 2.0 is best used giving us PVE. That would be a chance for new players to get used to the game and generate isk without being slaughtered by Proto Squads...
Exactly this!
Since EVE has all the industry in it anyway, give them the land too. We are mercenaries, so we'll work for whoever pays the most. Make it so that there is a ranking for each player/corp, that is related to their isk effectiveness. So that you get the job not only for your kdr but for the isk destroyed for isk invested ratio.
The EVE corporations would make contracts with set suit compensation schemes. So you would get your invested suit value, plus a bonus for winning. You would obviously not loose, but only gain if you win.
EVE corporations have shitloads of isk, so they could afford to build the barges the mcc's and all the vehicles and provide them. Mercs would have to preorder their stuff for the corps to manufacture it in advance, or you have to provide the skillset to use the provided material (as is in eve most of the time).
This would relieve the dust side of the stupid district mechanics. And we could concentrate on refining our tactics.
Corps would work on a specific skillset (providing pilots for example) or providing whole Squads/Teams with complete skillsets.
There would be a ranking system and a customer satisfaction display which is used by the eve corps to find the right mercenaries for the job.
|
Drapedup Drippedout
0uter.Heaven
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
281
|
Posted - 2014.02.02 13:32:00 -
[160] - Quote
Alaika Arbosa wrote:True Adamance wrote:Alaika Arbosa wrote:Baal Omniscient wrote:Alaika Arbosa wrote:@regynum
Actually, you're wrong.
New Eden is all about being an antisocial capitalist sociopath filled with impotent rage until you can gather X(X+X) allies together so you can blob the cause of your impotent rage. X == the number of allies that the source of your impotent rage has.
FYI, zerg rush would be the translation of blob that you would understand. Not to be... ya know, a downer.... but ISK is money, money buys good allies, good allies buys wins, wins = power... so.... I think he's got a bit of a point..... Allies bought are not allies at all. If you bought them, so can anyone else so how can you ever truly trust that they will remain loyal? You cant and that's exactly why you can trust them. Money is money, a mercenary is a mercenary, they go where the most money is. If you have it you can trust they will stick by you, if you don't you can trust they are against you. If they can be swayed by money, how can you know that they can't be swayed by the mere suggestion of more money? This is New Eden after all, it isn't like betrayal is some unheard of practice.
Regy's point exactly homes...money = power |
|
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Alaika Arbosa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc.
Interstellar Murder of Crows
1481
|
Posted - 2014.02.02 14:10:00 -
[161] - Quote
@DrapedUp DrippedOut
No, you are failing to see my point.
Money is nothing more than an illusion, perception is power.
I could be some broke ass cardboard box living hobo, but if I can make you think I've got the goods, you'll do as I say until it becomes readily apparent that I don't.
By that time, it very well may be too late for your previous employer.
Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives
Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten
Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta
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Canari Elphus
Ancient Exiles.
Renegade Alliance
1081
|
Posted - 2014.02.02 15:39:00 -
[162] - Quote
The issue with PC right now is that it shows off just how limited this game is as far as complexity. Right now the only thing that drives players is the accumulation of wealth to buy dropsuits. This leads to protostomping because it is the ONLY thing you can do with the money you make. There is no 'next level' that a corp can aspire to once they have gained their districts.
PC is limited to such a small part of EVE space that it barely factors into the lives of players who play both games.
The timers are a cheap fix so that CCP could release PC in such a crude state.
If CCP would allow corps to do something with the ISK generated then people would complain a lot less.
1 - Remove the idea of clones being readily available on all districts. Require that a corp hold a 'home district' where the biomass is sent for processing to be able to be used as a clone. Once processed, the biomass can be sent to districts to garrison it but it does not auto-replenish. If clones drop in a district due to conflict, the processed biomass needs to be sent via an EVE pilot for reinforcement.
2 - Allow Dust corporations to build defense structures around their districts or planets (if they hold the entire planet) which would act as the 'timer' for the district. To do this, you add in PVE and specifically, drones. To wear down the defenses of a district, the attacker would go through a PVE mode to take out the defending drones/structures so that they could get to the district. The district holder would be responsible for purchasing what 'defenses' they deem necessary. Once a planet is held, defenses can be added to protect the planet from enemies landing in the first place which would create more 'safe time' before an enemy could reach the district. Besides defensive structures, there are many other things that can be added via district ISK to make this more interesting. As someone mentioned, being able to build research, industry, repair, med or whichever slots for EVE players to be able to use the district. You could also start building other structures once you have taken a system. These would be the same structures that 0.0 pilots can once they hold a system. The building of jump points would allow corps to be able to transfer biomass more easily to reinforce other districts.
What this game is sorely missing right now is:
- A sense of physical distance. It doesnt matter where your districts are, they will always have clones generated on them and you will always be able to instantly get to them with no risk. There is no logistics strategy involved in deciding to take one district versus another.
- Something to build towards. Once you have a district and can keep it, all you really are doing is watching the isk counter tick up. There is no 'empire' to build with your winnings or anything to occupy your time other than endless pub matches in between a couple PC's a week. PC should be the opening to a much more complex DUST experience, not just a shiny veil over the same old pub matches.
- A more meaningful EVE experience. A pilot going through MH has no clue who might own a particular planet or maybe even the entire system. It has zero impact on him or her. The owning of districts/planets/systems should be seen as a benefit or threat to EVE pilots depending on whether they are blue/grey/red to the corps owning the districts.
These two games could be so much better by adding complexity and truly building the integrated experience but the reason it hasnt is pretty simple. CCP doesnt want to risk their cash cow which is EVE by fully integrating it with the half finished DUST. To have FPS players actually impacting their pilots might be a little to risky for them.
Proud Sponsor of the United Lamp Post Defense Fund. "Protecting Our Skies For A Better Tomorrow"
¯¯¯¦¬¯`GÇó.__Gÿ+
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Gelhad Thremyr
Quebec United
The CORVOS
44
|
Posted - 2014.02.02 16:35:00 -
[163] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:If you have any creative solutions (as in within current rule sets) the CPM still have an open ear.
CPM knows this has been (and for a long while knew) a problem and are trying to work with CCP and the community on a favorable solution.
Very easy to fix with a database. Which ccp has for sure for dust. Leave the current refund for the first no show, because there is uses politically for that. Any subsequent attacks are not reimbursed for 5 to 7 days.
For the timers differences attackers should have the ability to do [timer - 6 hours ; timer + 6 hours] attack configurations. This still requires to have teams in different time zones but will help with the different time zone attack defence.
Or remove the 24 hour delay for attacks within 1 hour once taken over districts could be locked for 2 days and then could be retaken. |
Bethhy
Ancient Exiles.
Renegade Alliance
1049
|
Posted - 2014.02.02 16:59:00 -
[164] - Quote
They are more worried and debating on what amount of man hours they are going to invest into this immediately.
CCP Has been working on PC 2.0 Since Uprising 1.4(September)
By the name 2.0 a lot of people have been speculating that it is to come with the DUST 2.0 Expansion what ever they deem to name it (Probably won't be Uprising)
I Really do hope they take their time and make sure it's finely polished this time. The Under Delivery of the Planetary Conquest Mechanic in DUST 514 is largely what killed the player counts from Beta to Uprising launch. Most aspiring Corporations and gaming groups where very interested but it was one debacle after another.
So right now they are debating whether to just hotfix PC and give it some simplistic fix and what should it be and who to take off another project to do it.... Or whether to do a partial implementation of PC upgrades...
Or whether to just say screw it and wait... (depends on if they can hotfix it... or forced to do it in the 1.8 patch)
Decisions Decisions... |
Heathen Bastard
The Bastard Brigade
840
|
Posted - 2014.02.02 17:14:00 -
[165] - Quote
Honestly, they should just scrap it for now and reintroduce it when they're willing to actually open it up. As it stands, it exists solely to fund protostomps and farm SP with preplanned "fights"
Where's the feeling of actually controlling a district? where's the integration to eve?
If you hear the words "WORTH IT!" look about, something hilarious just happened.
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Ares 514
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
408
|
Posted - 2014.02.02 17:20:00 -
[166] - Quote
Bethhy wrote:They are more worried and debating on what amount of man hours they are going to invest into this immediately.
CCP Has been working on PC 2.0 Since Uprising 1.4(September)
By the name 2.0 a lot of people have been speculating that it is to come with the DUST 2.0 Expansion what ever they deem to name it (Probably won't be Uprising)
I Really do hope they take their time and make sure it's finely polished this time. The Under Delivery of the Planetary Conquest Mechanic in DUST 514 is largely what killed the player counts from Beta to Uprising launch. Most aspiring Corporations and gaming groups where very interested but it was one debacle after another.
So right now they are debating whether to just hotfix PC and give it some simplistic fix and what should it be and who to take off another project to do it.... Or whether to do a partial implementation of PC upgrades...
Or whether to just say screw it and wait... (depends on if they can hotfix it... or forced to do it in the 1.8 patch)
Decisions Decisions...
This is the type of logic that leads to CCP making mistake after mistake. You CAN NOT leave a broken mechanic in a game for an extended period of time. It alienates your player base leading to a lack of confidence in CCP and frustration in the user experience. Turning off a no show clone pack refunds is such a simple bandaid to implement that it's illogical they have not done it. Reducing the amount of ISK generated is another simple configuration change they have previously hot fixed. Not acknowledging these issues in a timely mater and resolving them is an enormous failing on CCPs part. The same can be said of their stance on OP weapons and vehicles. Letting us get frustrated day after day while we wait months for a full solution is ridiculous. There is a time and a place for a quick change and CCPs inability to recognize this is their greatest failing IMO.
Let us all hope that one day they learn from their repeated failings on this type of issue.
Please fix the mic bubble bug...
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Himiko Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution
2890
|
Posted - 2014.02.02 17:29:00 -
[167] - Quote
There needs to be a way to bottle neck engagements. I mean using one district to defend a cluster of districts and keep things manageable. This is needed sorely because people are all about conquest, but can't stand the idea of alarm clocking a million different districts. It's not fun, period.
And attacking a shield district needs to be costly. Costly enough that it isn't worth locking it down, even for three other districts.
In fact, I submit that shield districts shouldn't even generate clones. They should have to have them moved from the districts it is protecting. |
Korvin Lomont
United Pwnage Service
RISE of LEGION
564
|
Posted - 2014.02.02 17:35:00 -
[168] - Quote
Ares 514 wrote:Bethhy wrote:They are more worried and debating on what amount of man hours they are going to invest into this immediately.
CCP Has been working on PC 2.0 Since Uprising 1.4(September)
By the name 2.0 a lot of people have been speculating that it is to come with the DUST 2.0 Expansion what ever they deem to name it (Probably won't be Uprising)
I Really do hope they take their time and make sure it's finely polished this time. The Under Delivery of the Planetary Conquest Mechanic in DUST 514 is largely what killed the player counts from Beta to Uprising launch. Most aspiring Corporations and gaming groups where very interested but it was one debacle after another.
So right now they are debating whether to just hotfix PC and give it some simplistic fix and what should it be and who to take off another project to do it.... Or whether to do a partial implementation of PC upgrades...
Or whether to just say screw it and wait... (depends on if they can hotfix it... or forced to do it in the 1.8 patch)
Decisions Decisions... This is the type of logic that leads to CCP making mistake after mistake. You CAN NOT leave a broken mechanic in a game for an extended period of time. It alienates your player base leading to a lack of confidence in CCP and frustration in the user experience. Turning off a no show clone pack refunds is such a simple bandaid to implement that it's illogical they have not done it. Reducing the amount of ISK generated is another simple configuration change they have previously hot fixed. Not acknowledging these issues in a timely mater and resolving them is an enormous failing on CCPs part. The same can be said of their stance on OP weapons and vehicles. Letting us get frustrated day after day while we wait months for a full solution is ridiculous. There is a time and a place for a quick change and CCPs inability to recognize this is their greatest failing IMO. Let us all hope that one day they learn from their repeated failings on this type of issue.
This a thousand times this
|
Zerus Ni'Kator
Brutor Vanguard
Minmatar Republic
192
|
Posted - 2014.02.02 18:12:00 -
[169] - Quote
ReGnYuM wrote:The only issue right now with PC is the locking. Once this is fixed I see no problem.
If you honestly have a problem with corps farming ISK then make a PC team and do something about it. The point is, getting established in PC is very hard and 90% of the people who complain in this thread neither have the ability or dedication to thrive in Molden Heath.
We earned ISK unlike players who run BPO's and farm pubs with no risk
You cant because all the districts are locked
Moron
|
Gelhad Thremyr
Quebec United
The CORVOS
44
|
Posted - 2014.02.02 18:14:00 -
[170] - Quote
Ares 514 wrote:Bethhy wrote:They are more worried and debating on what amount of man hours they are going to invest into this immediately.
CCP Has been working on PC 2.0 Since Uprising 1.4(September)
By the name 2.0 a lot of people have been speculating that it is to come with the DUST 2.0 Expansion what ever they deem to name it (Probably won't be Uprising)
I Really do hope they take their time and make sure it's finely polished this time. The Under Delivery of the Planetary Conquest Mechanic in DUST 514 is largely what killed the player counts from Beta to Uprising launch. Most aspiring Corporations and gaming groups where very interested but it was one debacle after another.
So right now they are debating whether to just hotfix PC and give it some simplistic fix and what should it be and who to take off another project to do it.... Or whether to do a partial implementation of PC upgrades...
Or whether to just say screw it and wait... (depends on if they can hotfix it... or forced to do it in the 1.8 patch)
Decisions Decisions... This is the type of logic that leads to CCP making mistake after mistake. You CAN NOT leave a broken mechanic in a game for an extended period of time. It alienates your player base leading to a lack of confidence in CCP and frustration in the user experience. Turning off a no show clone pack refunds is such a simple bandaid to implement that it's illogical they have not done it. Reducing the amount of ISK generated is another simple configuration change they have previously hot fixed. Not acknowledging these issues in a timely mater and resolving them is an enormous failing on CCPs part. The same can be said of their stance on OP weapons and vehicles. Letting us get frustrated day after day while we wait months for a full solution is ridiculous. There is a time and a place for a quick change and CCPs inability to recognize this is their greatest failing IMO. Let us all hope that one day they learn from their repeated failings on this type of issue.
What some consider simple fix must always end up being checked by Sony for Quality Assurance. They have just started to enhance their work processes to accomodate MMO's, trust me I am certain they wish things would go quicker for fixes. There is only a certain amount of data that they can hot fix without coming to meddle with client data stored on the PS3 and that triggers an automatic QA on sony's part. There are other factors than simply CCP's willingness to go quicker, so maybe you should send Sony some letters so they let developpers do their things on their platform. But all in all sony is way slacker than Microsoft.
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DJINN Stephani
Villore Sec Ops
Gallente Federation
207
|
Posted - 2014.02.02 18:19:00 -
[171] - Quote
Zerus Ni'Kator wrote:ReGnYuM wrote:The only issue right now with PC is the locking. Once this is fixed I see no problem.
If you honestly have a problem with corps farming ISK then make a PC team and do something about it. The point is, getting established in PC is very hard and 90% of the people who complain in this thread neither have the ability or dedication to thrive in Molden Heath.
We earned ISK unlike players who run BPO's and farm pubs with no risk You cant because all the districts are locked Moron
Moron |
Canari Elphus
Ancient Exiles.
Renegade Alliance
1082
|
Posted - 2014.02.02 18:25:00 -
[172] - Quote
Zerus Ni'Kator wrote:ReGnYuM wrote:The only issue right now with PC is the locking. Once this is fixed I see no problem.
If you honestly have a problem with corps farming ISK then make a PC team and do something about it. The point is, getting established in PC is very hard and 90% of the people who complain in this thread neither have the ability or dedication to thrive in Molden Heath.
We earned ISK unlike players who run BPO's and farm pubs with no risk You cant because all the districts are locked Moron
It would be best to read the first sentence in his post rather than just highlighting what you want to argue about.
The first step is removing the profit from locking the districts and then you can form all the teams you want.
CCP needs to expand PC so that it allows room for smaller corps to gain a foothold. That is why I think it is best to have distance mean something as far as districts. It allows security behind a line of friendlies for a corp to build up its presence. I also feel that there needs to be better EVE integration so that having an EVE component means something in the battles.
Proud Sponsor of the United Lamp Post Defense Fund. "Protecting Our Skies For A Better Tomorrow"
¯¯¯¦¬¯`GÇó.__Gÿ+
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Herman Hardon
The Rainbow Effect
31
|
Posted - 2014.02.02 18:42:00 -
[173] - Quote
LOL u guys are pissed about this ? What about the ppl that bought the bundle packs that were labeled for 1 aur . They got a ton of proto gear and loads of boosters . I know a guy that has over a million proto suits and 20,000 active boosters. I haven't seen **** about how ccp will fix that . In fact anyone that post about it gets takin down . |
richiesutie 2
The Rainbow Effect
717
|
Posted - 2014.02.02 18:45:00 -
[174] - Quote
Herman Hardon wrote:LOL u guys are pissed about this ? What about the ppl that bought the bundle packs that were labeled for 1 aur . They got a ton of proto gear and loads of boosters . I know a guy that has over a million proto suits and 20,000 active boosters. I haven't seen **** about how ccp will fix that . In fact anyone that post about it gets takin down .
They removed it Herman, and that guy now has all those boosters activated so he's set for the next 1500 years.
compilation of Patch/build notes
Check it out! :)
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Herman Hardon
The Rainbow Effect
31
|
Posted - 2014.02.02 18:53:00 -
[175] - Quote
richiesutie 2 wrote:Herman Hardon wrote:LOL u guys are pissed about this ? What about the ppl that bought the bundle packs that were labeled for 1 aur . They got a ton of proto gear and loads of boosters . I know a guy that has over a million proto suits and 20,000 active boosters. I haven't seen **** about how ccp will fix that . In fact anyone that post about it gets takin down . They removed it Herman, and that guy now has all those boosters activated so he's set for the next 1500 years.
They removed it from market ? Or they removed the inventory ? U got a link to how ccp handled the issue ?
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Killar-12
The Corporate Raiders
Top Men.
2142
|
Posted - 2014.02.02 19:01:00 -
[176] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Bendtner92 wrote:
1. There isn't a baseline million ISK per player active. You are aware that all clones killed, including your own teams, is a part of the payout to the winning team? Thus, if you kill 150 clones and lose 100 yourself the winning team will get 25 million ISK or around 1.5 million per player. There is no more ISK than what comes from clones killed.
2. If people was losing ISK even if they were winning you increase active ISK generation (ISK payouts for winning), not pump passive ISK generation to insane levels. Passive ISK generation shouldn't cover your losses, winning should, so there would be no problem with removing passive ISK generation altogether or reduce it to a symbolic value of 2 million or less ISK per district per day.
3. If you're farming active ISK generation from attacking yourself from another district, the attacking district can always be attacked by anyone else. I have no idea why you're talking about a dummy corp attacking the attacking district, because if you're locking the attacking district up with a clone pack you just threw the profit you wanted to make completely out of the window.
4. Removing passive ISK generation would not remove all incentives to have districts. You would want to have districts to be able to attack others without the use of clone packs. The incentive in PC is about getting districts to be able to attack and make ISK from winning those matches.
5. I don't want CCP to allocate resources to try and improve PC. That would be entirely pointless. Let them work on other aspects that sorely needs the work, and give PC these few bandaids to keep it running. Removing ISK generation and fixing the refunding exploit would do exactly that.
Edit: Not to mention that redesigns of PC would take a while to be implemented, meanwhile PC corps are making billions of ISK EVERY day with NO risk. Removing ISK generation and fixing the refunding exploit would put a stop to that right now.
Edit2: Passive ISK generation should never even have been implemented, so I really have no idea why you're even defending it now. Passive ISK generation is insanely stupid and just needs to be deleted and forgotten about.
Brosef, I've been doing PC for months now - I know how much I make when the other team no-shows with a clone pack. You still get paid a hefty amount. And the whole bit about attacking the attacking district with a dummy corp is really very simple when you're still making money from the clones you sent to the defending district in the first place. You increase the payout from the win and you're just refunding them the money anyway because you -already- get plenty of ISK from a no-show on a clone pack as it is. Removing passive ISK Generation would be a bad idea. It's nice when you have people to attack and when people are attacking you but a lot of good it's going to do you when you don't, you'll just have this block in space with your name on it being worthless. It's basically forcing corporations and alliances to fight unnecessarily, there's no reason to do it other than "for the **** of it", that doesn't make any sense at all and there is no system in Eve Online or Dust 514 that goes off of that system. Passive ISK Generation isn't "insanely stupid", it's actually rather smart considering that you don't want them to spend extra time on PC. It gives corporations a -reason- to do PC and a reason to have districts while we wait for a way to make ISK with work involved (PvE in Null-sec Sovereignty being a primary example). Band-aids need to be applied, sure, but the band-aid your suggesting just turns PC into pub-matches where you have to start your own battles and wait a day or two before they happen. "Edit2: Passive ISK generation should never even have been implemented, so I really have no idea why you're even defending it now." ^ This is personal incredulity.
I make a mill or two depending on clones sent/defending but the corp makes more off of a no show attack or defense, but if you're going off of EVE as an example then remember in EVE it costs money to make money, Sov bill, maintenance/fueling POSes, defending your self, you make ISK off of PvE, Manufacturing, PI and the like, PI and Moongoo are the only two ways you can farm and Alliances/Corporations cannot be ran off of moongoo or PI,
Active ISK generation through PvE and PvP would be more preferable with a nominal ISK generation via clones with a small bill from CONCORD making people only hold what thay can defend and make a profit from.
A-Teams win Battles B-Teams win Campaigns C-Teams win Wars
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Alaika Arbosa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc.
Interstellar Murder of Crows
1488
|
Posted - 2014.02.02 20:12:00 -
[177] - Quote
Herman Hardon wrote:LOL u guys are pissed about this ? What about the ppl that bought the bundle packs that were labeled for 1 aur . They got a ton of proto gear and loads of boosters . I know a guy that has over a million proto suits and 20,000 active boosters. I haven't seen **** about how ccp will fix that . In fact anyone that post about it gets takin down .
If it seems too good to be true, it is.
I have no sympathy for those, who in their greedy idiocy spent huge amounts of AUR and are now crying because they didn't think things through.
Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives
Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten
Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta
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Ares 514
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
417
|
Posted - 2014.02.02 22:55:00 -
[178] - Quote
Gelhad Thremyr wrote:Ares 514 wrote:Bethhy wrote:They are more worried and debating on what amount of man hours they are going to invest into this immediately.
CCP Has been working on PC 2.0 Since Uprising 1.4(September)
By the name 2.0 a lot of people have been speculating that it is to come with the DUST 2.0 Expansion what ever they deem to name it (Probably won't be Uprising)
I Really do hope they take their time and make sure it's finely polished this time. The Under Delivery of the Planetary Conquest Mechanic in DUST 514 is largely what killed the player counts from Beta to Uprising launch. Most aspiring Corporations and gaming groups where very interested but it was one debacle after another.
So right now they are debating whether to just hotfix PC and give it some simplistic fix and what should it be and who to take off another project to do it.... Or whether to do a partial implementation of PC upgrades...
Or whether to just say screw it and wait... (depends on if they can hotfix it... or forced to do it in the 1.8 patch)
Decisions Decisions... This is the type of logic that leads to CCP making mistake after mistake. You CAN NOT leave a broken mechanic in a game for an extended period of time. It alienates your player base leading to a lack of confidence in CCP and frustration in the user experience. Turning off a no show clone pack refunds is such a simple bandaid to implement that it's illogical they have not done it. Reducing the amount of ISK generated is another simple configuration change they have previously hot fixed. Not acknowledging these issues in a timely mater and resolving them is an enormous failing on CCPs part. The same can be said of their stance on OP weapons and vehicles. Letting us get frustrated day after day while we wait months for a full solution is ridiculous. There is a time and a place for a quick change and CCPs inability to recognize this is their greatest failing IMO. Let us all hope that one day they learn from their repeated failings on this type of issue. What some consider simple fix must always end up being checked by Sony for Quality Assurance. They have just started to enhance their work processes to accomodate MMO's, trust me I am certain they wish things would go quicker for fixes. There is only a certain amount of data that they can hot fix without coming to meddle with client data stored on the PS3 and that triggers an automatic QA on sony's part. There are other factors than simply CCP's willingness to go quicker, so maybe you should send Sony some letters so they let developpers do their things on their platform. But all in all sony is way slacker than Microsoft.
First they hot fixed ISK generation and rewards for PC previously and stated they were going to change it further but never followed through. Hence it's rather simple to infer they can easily adjust these in a hot fix.
Second, you have zero clue what your talking about and generic statements like this are inane. District locking and refunding clone packs has been an ongoing issue for months and months and months. To say they could not have resolved such a simple issue due to sony when they have done so many other things is quite simply stupid.
The issue here is not work involved but prioritization and recognizing that the status quo of leaving it broken is unacceptable.
Please fix the mic bubble bug...
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Alaika Arbosa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc.
Interstellar Murder of Crows
1488
|
Posted - 2014.02.02 23:01:00 -
[179] - Quote
Ares 514 wrote:Gelhad Thremyr wrote:Ares 514 wrote:Bethhy wrote:They are more worried and debating on what amount of man hours they are going to invest into this immediately.
CCP Has been working on PC 2.0 Since Uprising 1.4(September)
By the name 2.0 a lot of people have been speculating that it is to come with the DUST 2.0 Expansion what ever they deem to name it (Probably won't be Uprising)
I Really do hope they take their time and make sure it's finely polished this time. The Under Delivery of the Planetary Conquest Mechanic in DUST 514 is largely what killed the player counts from Beta to Uprising launch. Most aspiring Corporations and gaming groups where very interested but it was one debacle after another.
So right now they are debating whether to just hotfix PC and give it some simplistic fix and what should it be and who to take off another project to do it.... Or whether to do a partial implementation of PC upgrades...
Or whether to just say screw it and wait... (depends on if they can hotfix it... or forced to do it in the 1.8 patch)
Decisions Decisions... This is the type of logic that leads to CCP making mistake after mistake. You CAN NOT leave a broken mechanic in a game for an extended period of time. It alienates your player base leading to a lack of confidence in CCP and frustration in the user experience. Turning off a no show clone pack refunds is such a simple bandaid to implement that it's illogical they have not done it. Reducing the amount of ISK generated is another simple configuration change they have previously hot fixed. Not acknowledging these issues in a timely mater and resolving them is an enormous failing on CCPs part. The same can be said of their stance on OP weapons and vehicles. Letting us get frustrated day after day while we wait months for a full solution is ridiculous. There is a time and a place for a quick change and CCPs inability to recognize this is their greatest failing IMO. Let us all hope that one day they learn from their repeated failings on this type of issue. What some consider simple fix must always end up being checked by Sony for Quality Assurance. They have just started to enhance their work processes to accomodate MMO's, trust me I am certain they wish things would go quicker for fixes. There is only a certain amount of data that they can hot fix without coming to meddle with client data stored on the PS3 and that triggers an automatic QA on sony's part. There are other factors than simply CCP's willingness to go quicker, so maybe you should send Sony some letters so they let developpers do their things on their platform. But all in all sony is way slacker than Microsoft. First they hot fixed ISK generation and rewards for PC previously and stated they were going to change it further but never followed through. Hence it's rather simple to infer they can easily adjust these in a hot fix. Second, you have zero clue what your talking about and generic statements like this are inane. District locking and refunding clone packs has been an ongoing issue for months and months and months. To say they could not have resolved such a simple issue due to sony when they have done so many other things is quite simply stupid. The issue here is not work involved but prioritization and recognizing that the status quo of leaving it broken is unacceptable.
Unless they wanted to just print ISK for their buddies.
Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives
Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten
Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta
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Ares 514
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
417
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Posted - 2014.02.02 23:03:00 -
[180] - Quote
Alaika Arbosa wrote:Ares 514 wrote:Gelhad Thremyr wrote:Ares 514 wrote:Bethhy wrote:They are more worried and debating on what amount of man hours they are going to invest into this immediately.
CCP Has been working on PC 2.0 Since Uprising 1.4(September)
By the name 2.0 a lot of people have been speculating that it is to come with the DUST 2.0 Expansion what ever they deem to name it (Probably won't be Uprising)
I Really do hope they take their time and make sure it's finely polished this time. The Under Delivery of the Planetary Conquest Mechanic in DUST 514 is largely what killed the player counts from Beta to Uprising launch. Most aspiring Corporations and gaming groups where very interested but it was one debacle after another.
So right now they are debating whether to just hotfix PC and give it some simplistic fix and what should it be and who to take off another project to do it.... Or whether to do a partial implementation of PC upgrades...
Or whether to just say screw it and wait... (depends on if they can hotfix it... or forced to do it in the 1.8 patch)
Decisions Decisions... This is the type of logic that leads to CCP making mistake after mistake. You CAN NOT leave a broken mechanic in a game for an extended period of time. It alienates your player base leading to a lack of confidence in CCP and frustration in the user experience. Turning off a no show clone pack refunds is such a simple bandaid to implement that it's illogical they have not done it. Reducing the amount of ISK generated is another simple configuration change they have previously hot fixed. Not acknowledging these issues in a timely mater and resolving them is an enormous failing on CCPs part. The same can be said of their stance on OP weapons and vehicles. Letting us get frustrated day after day while we wait months for a full solution is ridiculous. There is a time and a place for a quick change and CCPs inability to recognize this is their greatest failing IMO. Let us all hope that one day they learn from their repeated failings on this type of issue. What some consider simple fix must always end up being checked by Sony for Quality Assurance. They have just started to enhance their work processes to accomodate MMO's, trust me I am certain they wish things would go quicker for fixes. There is only a certain amount of data that they can hot fix without coming to meddle with client data stored on the PS3 and that triggers an automatic QA on sony's part. There are other factors than simply CCP's willingness to go quicker, so maybe you should send Sony some letters so they let developpers do their things on their platform. But all in all sony is way slacker than Microsoft. First they hot fixed ISK generation and rewards for PC previously and stated they were going to change it further but never followed through. Hence it's rather simple to infer they can easily adjust these in a hot fix. Second, you have zero clue what your talking about and generic statements like this are inane. District locking and refunding clone packs has been an ongoing issue for months and months and months. To say they could not have resolved such a simple issue due to sony when they have done so many other things is quite simply stupid. The issue here is not work involved but prioritization and recognizing that the status quo of leaving it broken is unacceptable. Unless they wanted to just print ISK for their buddies.
Lol, conspiracy theory time! :)
Please fix the mic bubble bug...
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Thumb Green
Titans of Phoenix
Legacy Rising
714
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Posted - 2014.02.02 23:13:00 -
[181] - Quote
Zerus Ni'Kator wrote:ReGnYuM wrote:The only issue right now with PC is the locking. Once this is fixed I see no problem.
If you honestly have a problem with corps farming ISK then make a PC team and do something about it. The point is, getting established in PC is very hard and 90% of the people who complain in this thread neither have the ability or dedication to thrive in Molden Heath.
We earned ISK unlike players who run BPO's and farm pubs with no risk You cant because all the districts are locked Moron
District locking is only a problem because people don't put in the effort to stop it.; Dotlan shows the reinforcement timer for every district so all you have to do is press X faster than the guy locking the district.
Support Orbital Spawns
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Alaika Arbosa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc.
Interstellar Murder of Crows
1489
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Posted - 2014.02.02 23:29:00 -
[182] - Quote
Ares 514 wrote:Alaika Arbosa wrote:
Unless they wanted to just print ISK for their buddies.
Lol, conspiracy theory time! :)
I would delve further into the theory, though they would just have it deleted.
Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives
Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten
Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta
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Bendtner92
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
1607
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Posted - 2014.02.02 23:29:00 -
[183] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Brosef, I've been doing PC for months now - I know how much I make when the other team no-shows with a clone pack. You still get paid a hefty amount. And the whole bit about attacking the attacking district with a dummy corp is really very simple when you're still making money from the clones you sent to the defending district in the first place. You increase the payout from the win and you're just refunding them the money anyway because you -already- get plenty of ISK from a no-show on a clone pack as it is.
Removing passive ISK Generation would be a bad idea. It's nice when you have people to attack and when people are attacking you but a lot of good it's going to do you when you don't, you'll just have this block in space with your name on it being worthless. It's basically forcing corporations and alliances to fight unnecessarily, there's no reason to do it other than "for the **** of it", that doesn't make any sense at all and there is no system in Eve Online or Dust 514 that goes off of that system.
Passive ISK Generation isn't "insanely stupid", it's actually rather smart considering that you don't want them to spend extra time on PC. It gives corporations a -reason- to do PC and a reason to have districts while we wait for a way to make ISK with work involved (PvE in Null-sec Sovereignty being a primary example). Band-aids need to be applied, sure, but the band-aid your suggesting just turns PC into pub-matches where you have to start your own battles and wait a day or two before they happen.
"Edit2: Passive ISK generation should never even have been implemented, so I really have no idea why you're even defending it now."
^ This is personal incredulity.
If you know how much you make in PC you should really know that each clone killed = 100k ISK (amount has varied since PC was introduced, but I believe it's 100k atm) to the winning team. That means if 120 clones killed from a clone pack (and no clones lost on your team) your team gets 12 million ISK.
If you're spending 36 million ISK locking a district you attacked another of your districts with to farm ISK you sure as hell aren't making a profit. Your math must be really bad tbh.
Passive ISK is stupid when nothing happens. Having only active ISK ensures that there's a risk associated with rewards and also that people aren't just farming ISK in slow times. The reason to be in PC is to (or rather it should be) make ISK from winning matches, not farm ISK. If your only incentive for being in PC is to be able to just farm passive ISK GTFO.
Just keep wanting CCP to not do something about PC right NOW, but wait with changes until 1.8 or maybe even later while PC corps are making billions of ISK every day at no risk messing the economy (even more) up. Removing ISK generation and fixing the refunding exploit would stop that and a ISK payout increase should give plenty of incentives to still do PC (other than just wanting to hold districts to show epeen).
Winner of the EU Squad Cup & the closed beta Tester's Tournament.
Go Go Power Rangers!
R.I.P MAG.
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Severance Pay
Krullefor Organization
Minmatar Republic
1016
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Posted - 2014.02.02 23:31:00 -
[184] - Quote
Alaika Arbosa wrote:They should hotfix removing it and all of the isk it has generated.
This has the most likes in this thread. Make note of this CCP.
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers; For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother
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Severance Pay
Krullefor Organization
Minmatar Republic
1016
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Posted - 2014.02.02 23:33:00 -
[185] - Quote
CCP Logibro wrote:It's something we're aware of, and we're working on fixing it. Can't give a date as Chinese New Year means most of Shanghai is on holidays starting about now.
We went over this last year. Just cuz china goes on vacation doesn't mean that you go on vacation.
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers; For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother
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Bendtner92
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
1607
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Posted - 2014.02.02 23:35:00 -
[186] - Quote
Severance Pay wrote:Alaika Arbosa wrote:They should hotfix removing it and all of the isk it has generated. This has the most likes in this thread. Make note of this CCP.
I don't believe they should remove any ISK from players, but it's simply laughable how CCP hasn't done anything for weeks (hell, months) of knowing about it. Simply laughable.
Winner of the EU Squad Cup & the closed beta Tester's Tournament.
Go Go Power Rangers!
R.I.P MAG.
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Alaika Arbosa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc.
Interstellar Murder of Crows
1489
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Posted - 2014.02.02 23:41:00 -
[187] - Quote
Severance Pay wrote:Alaika Arbosa wrote:They should hotfix removing it and all of the isk it has generated. This has the most likes in this thread. Make note of this CCP.
Thank you, though I must admit that the OP has the most likes in the thread (wouldn't doubt that many of them are alt likes though, gotta keep your passive cash cow alive after all despite overwhelming support throughout the rest of the thread for the removal)
Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives
Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten
Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta
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Canari Elphus
Ancient Exiles.
Renegade Alliance
1083
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Posted - 2014.02.03 01:04:00 -
[188] - Quote
Alaika Arbosa wrote:Severance Pay wrote:Alaika Arbosa wrote:They should hotfix removing it and all of the isk it has generated. This has the most likes in this thread. Make note of this CCP. Thank you, though I must admit that the OP has the most likes in the thread (wouldn't doubt that many of them are alt likes though, gotta keep your passive cash cow alive after all despite overwhelming support throughout the rest of the thread for the removal)
You do realize that the majority of locked districts in PC right now are actually to protest the ability to do so and profit right? The OP was to bring light to the fact that many corporations are fed up with the exploit and want it fixed. Are you even trying?
Proud Sponsor of the United Lamp Post Defense Fund. "Protecting Our Skies For A Better Tomorrow"
¯¯¯¦¬¯`GÇó.__Gÿ+
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Alaika Arbosa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc.
Interstellar Murder of Crows
1489
|
Posted - 2014.02.03 01:25:00 -
[189] - Quote
Canari Elphus wrote:Alaika Arbosa wrote:Severance Pay wrote:Alaika Arbosa wrote:They should hotfix removing it and all of the isk it has generated. This has the most likes in this thread. Make note of this CCP. Thank you, though I must admit that the OP has the most likes in the thread (wouldn't doubt that many of them are alt likes though, gotta keep your passive cash cow alive after all despite overwhelming support throughout the rest of the thread for the removal) You do realize that the majority of locked districts in PC right now are actually to protest the ability to do so and profit right? The OP was to bring light to the fact that many corporations are fed up with the exploit and want it fixed. Are you even trying?
Ah, are you aware of the difference between my post and the OP?
OP simply wants the locking exploit fixed and to keep their passive ISK faucet (except when the Districts are locked).
I on the other hand, want PC removed entirely until it can be brought back with zero passive ISK gain whatsoever. I am not against Districts providing a source of Active Isk Generation (PvE mob slaying for profit, selling services to capsuleers/mercs for profit etc). However Passive Isk Generation needs to go. Along with all of the passively generated wealth (asset or liquid) that it has created thus far.
Anything less and it will be the death of Dust in the long term.
Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives
Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten
Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta
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Gelhad Thremyr
Quebec United
The CORVOS
45
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Posted - 2014.02.03 01:30:00 -
[190] - Quote
So basically your saying, we should give all the fun part to eve and if people are stupid toinvest ressources dust wise whitout a character in eve..well screw you.. And this is supposed to save dust on the long run ?
When an investment is made in ressource by a player isk or time he needs to assessthe risk vs gain. What you are proposing is not a high enough gain for players in dust only. |
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Michael Arck
Onuoto Uakan Huogaatsu
3024
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Posted - 2014.02.03 01:35:00 -
[191] - Quote
Protest profiting
Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu.
For the State!!
[email protected]
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Alaika Arbosa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc.
Interstellar Murder of Crows
1491
|
Posted - 2014.02.03 01:37:00 -
[192] - Quote
Gelhad Thremyr wrote:So basically your saying, we should give all the fun part to eve and if people are stupid toinvest ressources dust wise whitout a character in eve..well screw you.. And this is supposed to save dust on the long run ?
When an investment is made in ressource by a player isk or time he needs to assessthe risk vs gain. What you are proposing is not a high enough gain for players in dust only.
Um, I don't quite understand your interpretation of what I have written.
Where exactly did I say that "all the fun part" should go to Eve? I don't believe I said that at all.
Where exactly did I specify how much would be gained by either of the activities I put forward as acceptable sources of Active Isk Generation?
Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives
Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten
Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta
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Canari Elphus
Ancient Exiles.
Renegade Alliance
1084
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Posted - 2014.02.03 01:49:00 -
[193] - Quote
Alaika Arbosa wrote:Canari Elphus wrote:Alaika Arbosa wrote:Severance Pay wrote:Alaika Arbosa wrote:They should hotfix removing it and all of the isk it has generated. This has the most likes in this thread. Make note of this CCP. Thank you, though I must admit that the OP has the most likes in the thread (wouldn't doubt that many of them are alt likes though, gotta keep your passive cash cow alive after all despite overwhelming support throughout the rest of the thread for the removal) You do realize that the majority of locked districts in PC right now are actually to protest the ability to do so and profit right? The OP was to bring light to the fact that many corporations are fed up with the exploit and want it fixed. Are you even trying? Ah, are you aware of the difference between my post and the OP? OP simply wants the locking exploit fixed and to keep their passive ISK faucet (except when the Districts are locked). I on the other hand, want PC removed entirely until it can be brought back with zero passive ISK gain whatsoever. I am not against Districts providing a source of Active Isk Generation (PvE mob slaying for profit, selling services to capsuleers/mercs for profit etc). However Passive Isk Generation needs to go. Along with all of the passively generated wealth (asset or liquid) that it has created thus far. Anything less and it will be the death of Dust in the long term.
So, basically, you want the game to fail then? PC represents the pinnacle of this game right now. Its competition among the best of the best. Remove it and this game becomes a simple lobby shooter and nothing more. Remove it and you lose a huge chunk of your player base.
Removing the ISK generated from locking districts will not do much to reduce the wealth. The problem isnt that people are generating ISK, its that it secures the district so that others cannot attack it at all. It allows the corp to attack others without reprisal.
Again, you want to stop a corp from generating ISK? Attack the district and try to take it from them. The majority of corps in PC do not lock their districts and they can be attacked at any time.
Right now you just sound like someone who is bitter and vindictive and wants nothing other than to punish those whom you felt wronged you. Those corps that are protesting this arent asking for reprisals against those that are doing it and they are impacted the most. If you want to change how PC works then propose something that is attractive to Dust mercs and not something that just benefits a minority.
Proud Sponsor of the United Lamp Post Defense Fund. "Protecting Our Skies For A Better Tomorrow"
¯¯¯¦¬¯`GÇó.__Gÿ+
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Michael Arck
Onuoto Uakan Huogaatsu
3025
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Posted - 2014.02.03 02:02:00 -
[194] - Quote
So PC wasn't in stagnation even before the lockout problem? That the push for some newer corporations to come in to create variety in PC wasn't talked about and discussed ten times over because of the dullness of it? PC was dying before the locking district problem, its just that now the locking districts is the main topic. It's the same folks fighting the same folks. That can't possibly be fun and this game has been called a lobby shooter by the "elite" of PC.
Not forgetting how bad the PFC concept is...which is another story.
Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu.
For the State!!
[email protected]
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low genius
The Sound Of Freedom
Renegade Alliance
1201
|
Posted - 2014.02.03 02:11:00 -
[195] - Quote
I don't care how much money is available to be made. I care that you can make money without taking any risk. that's not new eden. |
Canari Elphus
Ancient Exiles.
Renegade Alliance
1086
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Posted - 2014.02.03 02:18:00 -
[196] - Quote
Michael Arck wrote:So PC wasn't in stagnation even before the lockout problem? That the push for some newer corporations to come in to create variety in PC wasn't talked about and discussed ten times over because of the dullness of it? PC was dying before the locking district problem, its just that now the locking districts is the main topic. It's the same folks fighting the same folks. That can't possibly be fun and this game has been called a lobby shooter by the "elite" of PC.
Not forgetting how bad the PFC concept is...which is another story.
PC has many issues and does need a lot of work. District locking has been an issue talked about for a while and some decided its finally time to do something about it.
Do you honestly believe that people in PC dont want competition? Playing organized battles in a 16v16 format is what makes it worth getting into.
Players are not perfect and this is admitted. It should be on CCP to make a system that helps foster competition. PFC was an attempt to help prepare corps for PC but it shouldt be the playerbase's responsibility to have to try to create something like that.
Something of a solution for this would be to give a high-sec 'district' to every corporation in Dust. The district can accumulate clones up until its limit but all excess clones do not gain a profit for the corporation. The would be turned over to Concord (the police) to limit military build up in high-sec. This gives all corps the ability to launch at least one full attack on a district every couple days and the rest could be done via cone pack should they want to attack more.
This strategy might be flawed but it adds something to the game rather than to make it less interesting.
Proud Sponsor of the United Lamp Post Defense Fund. "Protecting Our Skies For A Better Tomorrow"
¯¯¯¦¬¯`GÇó.__Gÿ+
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Michael Arck
Onuoto Uakan Huogaatsu
3026
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Posted - 2014.02.03 02:21:00 -
[197] - Quote
Canari Elphus wrote:Michael Arck wrote:So PC wasn't in stagnation even before the lockout problem? That the push for some newer corporations to come in to create variety in PC wasn't talked about and discussed ten times over because of the dullness of it? PC was dying before the locking district problem, its just that now the locking districts is the main topic. It's the same folks fighting the same folks. That can't possibly be fun and this game has been called a lobby shooter by the "elite" of PC.
Not forgetting how bad the PFC concept is...which is another story. PC has many issues and does need a lot of work. District locking has been an issue talked about for a while and some decided its finally time to do something about it. Do you honestly believe that people in PC dont want competition? Playing organized battles in a 16v16 format is what makes it worth getting into. Players are not perfect and this is admitted. It should be on CCP to make a system that helps foster competition. PFC was an attempt to help prepare corps for PC but it shouldt be the playerbase's responsibility to have to try to create something like that. Something of a solution for this would be to give a high-sec 'district' to every corporation in Dust. The district can accumulate clones up until its limit but all excess clones do not gain a profit for the corporation. The would be turned over to Concord (the police) to limit military build up in high-sec. This gives all corps the ability to launch at least one full attack on a district every couple days and the rest could be done via cone pack should they want to attack more. This strategy might be flawed but it adds something to the game rather than to make it less interesting.
Respectable response
+1
Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu.
For the State!!
[email protected]
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Alaika Arbosa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc.
Interstellar Murder of Crows
1493
|
Posted - 2014.02.03 02:23:00 -
[198] - Quote
Canari Elphus wrote:
So, basically, you want the game to fail then? PC represents the pinnacle of this game right now. Its competition among the best of the best. Remove it and this game becomes a simple lobby shooter and nothing more. Remove it and you lose a huge chunk of your player base.
Removing the ISK generated from locking districts will not do much to reduce the wealth. The problem isnt that people are generating ISK, its that it secures the district so that others cannot attack it at all. It allows the corp to attack others without reprisal.
Again, you want to stop a corp from generating ISK? Attack the district and try to take it from them. The majority of corps in PC do not lock their districts and they can be attacked at any time.
Right now you just sound like someone who is bitter and vindictive and wants nothing other than to punish those whom you felt wronged you. Those corps that are protesting this arent asking for reprisals against those that are doing it and they are impacted the most. If you want to change how PC works then propose something that is attractive to Dust mercs and not something that just benefits a minority.
No, I want the game to prosper in the longterm.
PC is the pinnacle of the game how? Does everyone play it? Of those that do play it, no one complains of soulcrushing lag or the exploits that people use?
It is competition among "the best of the best"? Sounds like a 1% circlejerk if you ask me. Even with PC, this game is a simple lobby shooter. Remove it and we lose a small fraction of the playerbase that we'd probably be better off without anyway.
You say "Removing the ISK generated from locking districts will not do much to reduce the wealth", that is exactly my point.
So we are to just try to take it from them when they're able to sit with their thumb up their asses and make Isk while we need to grind the isk by facing them in pubs where they faceroll everyone with proto gear that they can throw away for months while we need to scrimp every single penny we can just to have a chance at attacking them? Beyond that, once we get a player market, it will be dominated by those same thumbsitters who will jack prices to a point where no one can afford to buy anything beyond STD if that.
How is what I have already proposed multiple times in this thread not attractive to Dust mercs on the whole rather than to the small minority that is involved in PC?
You say I want the game to die, I say you want the game to die.
The reason you say I want it to die is because I want a broken mechanic that benefits a small minority removed while it is reworked and the damage it has done is reversed.
I say you want the game to die because you want the status quo to go on with a minor tweak so that you can **** the future of this game right in the ass.
I think that Dust would have a better chance at longterm survival by ignoring the minority who obviously feel they are the only ones who should be playing than it would by listening to the same minority and destroying any real chance of longterm growth.
Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives
Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten
Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta
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Michael Arck
Onuoto Uakan Huogaatsu
3026
|
Posted - 2014.02.03 02:25:00 -
[199] - Quote
Some interesting arguments here...
Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu.
For the State!!
[email protected]
|
Himiko Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution
2897
|
Posted - 2014.02.03 02:26:00 -
[200] - Quote
Alaika Arbosa wrote:Canari Elphus wrote:
So, basically, you want the game to fail then? PC represents the pinnacle of this game right now. Its competition among the best of the best. Remove it and this game becomes a simple lobby shooter and nothing more. Remove it and you lose a huge chunk of your player base.
Removing the ISK generated from locking districts will not do much to reduce the wealth. The problem isnt that people are generating ISK, its that it secures the district so that others cannot attack it at all. It allows the corp to attack others without reprisal.
Again, you want to stop a corp from generating ISK? Attack the district and try to take it from them. The majority of corps in PC do not lock their districts and they can be attacked at any time.
Right now you just sound like someone who is bitter and vindictive and wants nothing other than to punish those whom you felt wronged you. Those corps that are protesting this arent asking for reprisals against those that are doing it and they are impacted the most. If you want to change how PC works then propose something that is attractive to Dust mercs and not something that just benefits a minority.
No, I want the game to prosper in the longterm. PC is the pinnacle of the game how? Does everyone play it? Of those that do play it, no one complains of soulcrushing lag or the exploits that people use? It is competition among "the best of the best"? Sounds like a 1% circlejerk if you ask me. Even with PC, this game is a simple lobby shooter. Remove it and we lose a small fraction of the playerbase that we'd probably be better off without anyway. You say "Removing the ISK generated from locking districts will not do much to reduce the wealth", that is exactly my point. So we are to just try to take it from them when they're able to sit with their thumb up their asses and make Isk while we need to grind the isk by facing them in pubs where they faceroll everyone with proto gear that they can throw away for months while we need to scrimp every single penny we can just to have a chance at attacking them? Beyond that, once we get a player market, it will be dominated by those same thumbsitters who will jack prices to a point where no one can afford to buy anything beyond STD if that. How is what I have already proposed multiple times in this thread not attractive to Dust mercs on the whole rather than to the small minority that is involved in PC? You say I want the game to die, I say you want the game to die. The reason you say I want it to die is because I want a broken mechanic that benefits a small minority removed while it is reworked and the damage it has done is reversed. I say you want the game to die because you want the status quo to go on with a minor tweak so that you can **** the future of this game right in the ass. I think that Dust would have a better chance at longterm survival by ignoring the minority who obviously feel they are the only ones who should be playing than it would by listening to the same minority and destroying any real chance of longterm growth.
The worthless majority aspire to be what they cannot be.
Kill the dream, and you kill the soul. Kill the soul, and the body soon follows. |
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Alaika Arbosa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc.
Interstellar Murder of Crows
1494
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Posted - 2014.02.03 02:32:00 -
[201] - Quote
Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Alaika Arbosa wrote:Canari Elphus wrote:
So, basically, you want the game to fail then? PC represents the pinnacle of this game right now. Its competition among the best of the best. Remove it and this game becomes a simple lobby shooter and nothing more. Remove it and you lose a huge chunk of your player base.
Removing the ISK generated from locking districts will not do much to reduce the wealth. The problem isnt that people are generating ISK, its that it secures the district so that others cannot attack it at all. It allows the corp to attack others without reprisal.
Again, you want to stop a corp from generating ISK? Attack the district and try to take it from them. The majority of corps in PC do not lock their districts and they can be attacked at any time.
Right now you just sound like someone who is bitter and vindictive and wants nothing other than to punish those whom you felt wronged you. Those corps that are protesting this arent asking for reprisals against those that are doing it and they are impacted the most. If you want to change how PC works then propose something that is attractive to Dust mercs and not something that just benefits a minority.
No, I want the game to prosper in the longterm. PC is the pinnacle of the game how? Does everyone play it? Of those that do play it, no one complains of soulcrushing lag or the exploits that people use? It is competition among "the best of the best"? Sounds like a 1% circlejerk if you ask me. Even with PC, this game is a simple lobby shooter. Remove it and we lose a small fraction of the playerbase that we'd probably be better off without anyway. You say "Removing the ISK generated from locking districts will not do much to reduce the wealth", that is exactly my point. So we are to just try to take it from them when they're able to sit with their thumb up their asses and make Isk while we need to grind the isk by facing them in pubs where they faceroll everyone with proto gear that they can throw away for months while we need to scrimp every single penny we can just to have a chance at attacking them? Beyond that, once we get a player market, it will be dominated by those same thumbsitters who will jack prices to a point where no one can afford to buy anything beyond STD if that. How is what I have already proposed multiple times in this thread not attractive to Dust mercs on the whole rather than to the small minority that is involved in PC? You say I want the game to die, I say you want the game to die. The reason you say I want it to die is because I want a broken mechanic that benefits a small minority removed while it is reworked and the damage it has done is reversed. I say you want the game to die because you want the status quo to go on with a minor tweak so that you can **** the future of this game right in the ass. I think that Dust would have a better chance at longterm survival by ignoring the minority who obviously feel they are the only ones who should be playing than it would by listening to the same minority and destroying any real chance of longterm growth. The worthless majority aspire to be what they cannot be. Kill the dream, and you kill the soul. Kill the soul, and the body soon follows.
lol
Full of yourself much?
I am quoting this just so everyone can see exactly what your opinion of everyone who isn't one of the "Circlejerk Elite".
Besides, I'd say that you're looking to kill the dream for anyone who isn't one of you. The dream of the majority is larger than the dream of the minority. Therefore it has more gravity and is less likely to be ignored.
Unless of course, CCP really think that they can make more AUR revenues without the "worthless majority" as you have called the majority of the playerbase with your comment.
Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives
Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten
Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta
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Michael Arck
Onuoto Uakan Huogaatsu
3027
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Posted - 2014.02.03 02:39:00 -
[202] - Quote
Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Alaika Arbosa wrote:Canari Elphus wrote:
So, basically, you want the game to fail then? PC represents the pinnacle of this game right now. Its competition among the best of the best. Remove it and this game becomes a simple lobby shooter and nothing more. Remove it and you lose a huge chunk of your player base.
Removing the ISK generated from locking districts will not do much to reduce the wealth. The problem isnt that people are generating ISK, its that it secures the district so that others cannot attack it at all. It allows the corp to attack others without reprisal.
Again, you want to stop a corp from generating ISK? Attack the district and try to take it from them. The majority of corps in PC do not lock their districts and they can be attacked at any time.
Right now you just sound like someone who is bitter and vindictive and wants nothing other than to punish those whom you felt wronged you. Those corps that are protesting this arent asking for reprisals against those that are doing it and they are impacted the most. If you want to change how PC works then propose something that is attractive to Dust mercs and not something that just benefits a minority.
No, I want the game to prosper in the longterm. PC is the pinnacle of the game how? Does everyone play it? Of those that do play it, no one complains of soulcrushing lag or the exploits that people use? It is competition among "the best of the best"? Sounds like a 1% circlejerk if you ask me. Even with PC, this game is a simple lobby shooter. Remove it and we lose a small fraction of the playerbase that we'd probably be better off without anyway. You say "Removing the ISK generated from locking districts will not do much to reduce the wealth", that is exactly my point. So we are to just try to take it from them when they're able to sit with their thumb up their asses and make Isk while we need to grind the isk by facing them in pubs where they faceroll everyone with proto gear that they can throw away for months while we need to scrimp every single penny we can just to have a chance at attacking them? Beyond that, once we get a player market, it will be dominated by those same thumbsitters who will jack prices to a point where no one can afford to buy anything beyond STD if that. How is what I have already proposed multiple times in this thread not attractive to Dust mercs on the whole rather than to the small minority that is involved in PC? You say I want the game to die, I say you want the game to die. The reason you say I want it to die is because I want a broken mechanic that benefits a small minority removed while it is reworked and the damage it has done is reversed. I say you want the game to die because you want the status quo to go on with a minor tweak so that you can **** the future of this game right in the ass. I think that Dust would have a better chance at longterm survival by ignoring the minority who obviously feel they are the only ones who should be playing than it would by listening to the same minority and destroying any real chance of longterm growth. The worthless majority aspire to be what they cannot be. Kill the dream, and you kill the soul. Kill the soul, and the body soon follows.
What a arrogant post. So it's the "worthless majority" because dudes in PC can push buttons better than the majority? You need the majority. If you don't have new blood in PC, its the same people fighting over and over again. Then PC becomes stale...hence why threads were made about ways to correct PFC to help the majority gain training so some new blood can come in and why discussions has been had on how to welcome corps into PC.
The shuffling of lineups isn't going to make PC better. The "high and mighty" attitude isn't going to make it better either. Cause when that majority leave, its just the minority still playing with each other and once the majority leaves, the minority will too. So you're shooting yourself in the foot thinking otherwise.
Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu.
For the State!!
[email protected]
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Canari Elphus
Ancient Exiles.
Renegade Alliance
1090
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Posted - 2014.02.03 02:53:00 -
[203] - Quote
Alaika Arbosa wrote:
No, I want the game to prosper in the longterm.
PC is the pinnacle of the game how? Does everyone play it? Of those that do play it, no one complains of soulcrushing lag or the exploits that people use?
Lag has been corrected to an extent. Exploits have been removed when brought up. Most exploits were discovered in either PC games or tournaments which actually helps the community as a whole. Locking is just another exploit that we hope to get fixed.
CCP has even stated that PC is what they want this game to be. Its about building a 'sandcastle' in a persistent universe. CCP has never had an issue with people creating almost unbeatable empires. As long as the opportunity is there for everyone and its not created through exploits, its all free game.
Alaika Arbosa wrote:
It is competition among "the best of the best"? Sounds like a 1% circlejerk if you ask me. Even with PC, this game is a simple lobby shooter. Remove it and we lose a small fraction of the playerbase that we'd probably be better off without anyway.
Remove PC and you remove what this game is moving towards. Remove risk/reward and the ability to build something and CCP might as well cancel the game. Who are you to decide what players should leave and which should stay? Maybe we should remove all players who are snipers next as many feel that they dont help the game either.
Alaika Arbosa wrote:
You say "Removing the ISK generated from locking districts will not do much to reduce the wealth", that is exactly my point.
So we are to just try to take it from them when they're able to sit with their thumb up their asses and make Isk while we need to grind the isk by facing them in pubs where they faceroll everyone with proto gear that they can throw away for months while we need to scrimp every single penny we can just to have a chance at attacking them? Beyond that, once we get a player market, it will be dominated by those same thumbsitters who will jack prices to a point where no one can afford to buy anything beyond STD if that.
The reason is that those corps that are locking their districts are doing so to avoid getting attacked. Once they get attacked, they will lose all the money they have stockpiled plus some. PC wars are very expensive and can cost billions per week if it is full out.
Alaika Arbosa wrote:
How is what I have already proposed multiple times in this thread not attractive to Dust mercs on the whole rather than to the small minority that is involved in PC?
Because you want to make the reason for being in PC less attractive than it already is rather than make it more attractive to corps who have not yet tried their hand in it. You want to just feel more comfortable in safe little pub matches where all you have to do is just move onto the less meaningless game. I want to find ways to get more people involved into the risk/reward scenario of what this game will turn into eventually.
Alaika Arbosa wrote:
You say I want the game to die, I say you want the game to die.
The reason you say I want it to die is because I want a broken mechanic that benefits a small minority removed while it is reworked and the damage it has done is reversed.
I say you want the game to die because you want the status quo to go on with a minor tweak so that you can **** the future of this game right in the ass.
I think that Dust would have a better chance at longterm survival by ignoring the minority who obviously feel they are the only ones who should be playing than it would by listening to the same minority and destroying any real chance of longterm growth.
Did you even read the massive post I put up about CCP needing to find ways for corps to use excess ISK beyond pub matches? You are so blinded by your prejudice against corps involved in PC that you cannot even see alternatives that might actually benefit it rather than dull it down. Why dont you wipe the frothy spittle from your mouth and actually read the comments I have posted up.
Proud Sponsor of the United Lamp Post Defense Fund. "Protecting Our Skies For A Better Tomorrow"
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Alaika Arbosa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc.
Interstellar Murder of Crows
1497
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Posted - 2014.02.03 03:24:00 -
[204] - Quote
@Canari Elphus
I only said remove PC for the time being until it can be brought back without the Passive Isk Generation. I never once said that it should never come back, only that the Passive Isk Generation should never come back.
Yeah, PC wars are very expensive and can cost billions per week if it is full out? So how can anyone who isn't already involved in PC afford to attack full out against those already established?
Passive Isk generation is only attractive because you can sit there and do nothing and still make Isk. Active Isk generation can be just as attractive if you're willing to accept that you need to take a risk to get a reward. This is after all, New Eden and there should be no free cookies. Passive Isk generation is just that, free cookies. Hell, the Passive Isk Generation in Eve isn't even as free as it is in Dust since you need to get your moon goo to market to actually make a profit, in Dust it is just fill up the clone limit and rake in Isk.
You can tell me what I want when you see the world through my eyes, until then, I'll thank you to not put words in my mouth. I want more than pubs and tbh, I want to be involved in PC, just not this broken joke that it currently is. This is why I boycott PC and have boycotted PC since it was released as a game feature. I looked forward to PC until I saw how broken it was and that it was just going to be a passive faucet. I wanted it to be so much more than that, though it isn't. It is a joke, nothing more than another lobby to sit in, in which you can watch your balance sheet get fatter. I wonder how you would fair if you didn't have the Passive Income from PC, would you stick around so you could grind pubs for Isk so you can keep your head above water? I doubt it.
If you mean what you say when you say "I want to find ways to get more people involved into the risk/reward scenario of what this game will turn into eventually" you would support the removal of the broken system until a not broken system could be implemented. I wonder how many people would be playing Dust right now if it hadn't been for them getting facerolled by a PC corp protostomping squad their first match out of Academy, do you care? I am betting no.
All of the PC corps claim to want new blood in the mix and yet they don't change their behaviors, they just continue raking in passive isk and pissing it away as proto gear in pubs. Personally, I think it is funny that you find the bed you've made to be uncomfortable.
Did you even read the posts I put up about ways to actively generate isk? I am betting not, you saw "no passive isk" and overlooked the rest of the post.
If you think this is me foaming at the mouth, you haven't seen **** yet.
Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives
Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten
Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta
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Canari Elphus
Ancient Exiles.
Renegade Alliance
1092
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Posted - 2014.02.03 06:07:00 -
[205] - Quote
I have seen your suggestions and I feel that it would only appeal to a small minority in both Dust and in EVE.
CCP wants Dust to turn into EVE so that the two can mesh together. To do that, they need to up the ante in a progressive fashion. They want larger scale battles like what just happened in EVE where hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of ships were destroyed.
By just making PC generate research/industry/etc slots in EVE, Dust has no future beyond minor relevance in EVE and has zero incentive to evolve for mercs that do not want to worry about an EVE counterpart. It also has no bearing on the major players in 0.0 space in EVE who are the ones who are massive drivers to the game.
You are looking for a way to curb protostomping by making PC less attractive with no evolution. Why? Because you just want to solve an issue that pertains to you right now and not the future of the game. Instead of asking how to make this game grander, you seek to add banality so players dont get picked on.
The problem with that is that it is the complete opposite of what the roadmap of CCP is in aligning it with EVE. EVE is even more unfair than Dust is. There are no starter fits and the imbalance between new players and vets is extreme. The imbalance of wealth is extreme.
Should there be more opportunity for smaller corps to get into PC? Of course, PC is way too small and uncomplicated right now. CCP just threw it out there and hoped it would sate the population while they worked on it.
Should there be some sort of opportunity for players to have a growing experience outside of PC? Yes, as that is what happens in EVE.
These games are all about risk and reward. PC will always have the greatest reward because it has the greatest risk and the greatest competition. This is also why it should not have the ability to lock districts as its removes the risk.
Instead of complaining about PC and how its only for the snobby 1%, how about coming up with ideas for how those that do not want to participate in it can have better experiences in the game? Think about expanding the complexity rather than dulling it.
What I find ridiculous is that you are arguing with me when Im giving you points that we can actually agree on. Yes, PC is a passive faucet and it should have great rewards associated with it because it requires much more involvement in the game. However, that faucet should be directed into other ventures that make the game more complex rather than just fueling protogear in pub matches. It should be about ever increasing arms races against other corporations that want to participate in PC which doesnt exist right now.
By adding layers of complexity in PC, it gives tiers to it and outlets for the ISK.
This solves all the problems in multiple ways
1 - With more ISK involved with escalation of PC, it means less will be available for use in protogear in pub matches
2 - With more levels of complexity in PC, it means that more and more time of veteran players will be devoted to their 'empire' so they wouldnt even be in a lot of pubs to begin with
3 - By adding tiers to PC (say low-sec districts versus null sec), it helps to segregate those just starting out in PC versus those with lots of experience in it.
Instead of making the rewards so dull that few want to participate in it, you have to think on continually extending the carrot so that the next step is so attractive that players will move on to it and make room for other players to fill the positions that were just vacated.
What this game lacks is something beyond the PC of where we are at right now. CCP has not developed the next step and that is frustrating everyone. There are a lot of young decent corps that are more than ready to move into low sec PC but they are not given the chance because CCP has not given those corps that are experienced in PC something to move on to and abandon their districts to the next wave.
Stop thinking about how to make it so everyone has the same stuff and start thinking about how to make it so everyone has the same opportunities.
Proud Sponsor of the United Lamp Post Defense Fund. "Protecting Our Skies For A Better Tomorrow"
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Alaika Arbosa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc.
Interstellar Murder of Crows
1497
|
Posted - 2014.02.03 08:09:00 -
[206] - Quote
Where did I say that they would only generate slots in Eve? I didn't, I said that they would generate slots available in Eve until we were given the same capabilities that can be found in Eve, indicating that they would eventually be open to mercs as well once we had the opportunity.
Where do you get "no evolution" in my suggestions? You are imagining that as you want to give my ideas no credence as evidenced by your narrow view of what I see my suggestions encompassing. I have a question for you, have you yourself played Eve? Have you experienced 0.0? Have you seen the complaints on the EveO forums regarding the abysmal conditions for Industry in 0.0? As it is now, most items in 0.0 need to be hauled in, the materials for T2 Production are most predominantly found in 0.0 and yet where is most T2 production done? In Empire, this makes no sense. The materials are there, the will is there, the only things missing are the slots and appropriate infrastructure. My proposal for PC could provide just such Infrastructure, infrastructure that couldn't be hotdropped and reinforced (therefore interrupting all processes on that tower). It would provide a safer and more stable platform for the pursuit of industry which would bring prosperity to both Capsuleer and Merc as well as allowing more activity to flourish in 0.0 (no more, ohnoes, I need to get so and so hauled in or I can't do that cause I don't have the ships). There is plenty of room for evolution in my proposals, you just don't want to see it because you are too attached to the teat of Passive Income.
I am quite frankly thoroughly confused by how you cannot see protostomping as detrimental to the longterm health of the game as well as how it is having a negative impact on not only player numbers, but also on media perception from critics. Protostomping doesn't just pertain to me, it pertains to all of us, despite how much you might get a raging hardon for how "l33t" your gungame skills are because you can faceroll people with your protogear, it is not helping. You might think it is, because it makes you feel good about yourself, but all those guys getting facerolled, don't feel good about Dust after you get your jollies on stomping them. You mistakenly infer that I wish to inject banality "so players don't get picked on". Quite the contrary, I want players to be able to be picked on, just in an environment where they can escape it by way of shrewd decision making and skill at evasion. Smacking fish in a barrel isn't difficult at all, this is all that your doing by picking on people in the lobby. Try smacking fish in the ocean, where they can evade you, flee off along another current and go about their business there all the while with you pursuing them. Another benefit of this would be that they can smack you back if you're not paying attention.
Again, I must ask you if you have ever played Eve? If you had, you'd know all about the free noobships you get when you dock in your pod. These are the equivalent of Dust starter fits, they exist and they are analogous to one another. I will grant that the imbalance between new players and vets is extreme in Eve, however, it works there. In Eve, you aren't forced to face off against a team of 16 guys with 15 guys at your side. In Eve, you can roam freely and do as you please for the most part, this is not so in Dust. In Eve, if you are getting facerolled by vets when you go into a particular system, you can choose to not go into that system while still actively participating in the game.
Yes, I will agree with you that PC should have the greatest rewards available in the game, however the PC that CCP "just threw" at us should've been just thrown in the bin. It is/was half-ass, poorly thought out and laughable in the extreme. PC as it exists currently will never be for those outside of the snobby 1%, that is just the way that it is. There will never be an opening for anyone who doesn't kowtow to them for a place as renters or as sycophants clamoring for crumbs. The Passive faucet has made sure of that and has absolutely no place in New Eden as it amounts to free cookies.
The suggestions you put forward for "adding layers of complexity" simply smack of larger barriers, increasing costs for escalation? Who will be able to afford these aside from those who've been bathing in the faucet the longest? In addition to their financial advantage, you want to make it so that vets have little more to do than faceroll any newcomers? Let me guess, nullsec faucets would be even greater in flow than lowsec faucets right? So you're actually proposing that passive income generation be ramped up? Are you mad?
I don't want everyone to have the same stuff, I do want everyone to have the same opportunities. It sounds to me like you simply want to have more opportunities for your self and those who've been taking advantage of the raking of passive Isk the longest. This isn't the right path to take. Everyone should have the same opportunities, the same chances to work at actively making that Isk rather than having it poured out for them as if they were entitled to a handout.
Tech wasn't worth very much before Goons went and seized all of the Tech moons and created a monopoly (or as close to one as they could). They took them, defended them and manipulated the market to make their wealth. CCP didn't just say "hey, you guys with the tech moons over there, we're just going to print isk for you day and night". They seized an opportunity to take a mediocre moon goo and turn it into the highest priced moon goo there was until CCP changed up Alchemy and made it so that people could bypass not having a Tech moon to create their own "tech wealth". Utilizing resources to make wealth is a good thing, so long as you are actively working towards creating that wealth and not just having it handed to you on a silver platter.
PIG is Anti-New Eden and needs to go.
Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives
Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten
Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta
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Canari Elphus
Ancient Exiles.
Renegade Alliance
1092
|
Posted - 2014.02.03 08:45:00 -
[207] - Quote
Yes, I have an EVE toon and it is not a high sec carebear.
Your point is to use PC to create something that helps non-combatant roles. The issue with that is the reason that Dust players get into PC is because of the heightened competition that takes place at that level. That will never change. The same corps will follow each other up the ladder to prove they are better than the others. They want battle and they want to engage in activities that helps the further that goal. PC rewards need to be aimed towards escalating that purpose. Turning it into industry slots whether it is in Dust or EVE is not aligned with that desire for PVP.
Why do you keep accusing me of trying to increase protostomping in pub matches? All of my proposals have been about finding ways to use he ISK from PC to increase competition at higher and higher levels. In EVE, 0.0 players use it to build structures and move into bigger and bigger ships. That is what leads to all out brawls like the one that just happened last week where dozens upon dozens of titans and dreads went against each other. That is where PC needs to evolve to.
PC1 needs to be interesting/rewarding/involved enough so players tend to stick to it rather than pub matches
PC2 needs to be interesting/rewarding/involved enough so that players migrate to it over PC1
The idea is to let corps keep evolving so that they leave the lower tiers behind so they an keep up with their competition. As they evolve, it opens up new opportunities for newer players/corps to evolve as well.
You cannot keep older players without continually extending the challenges and rewards for them
You cannot attract new players without having the veterans move to to create room for them
Its not the ISK generation that is the major problem but the lack of evolution in this game. There is nothing bigger or better beyond a proto suit/weapon, a standard tank or owning a simple PC district. That is what needs to be changed. There needs to be stuff that is bigger and better that is only applicable to the evolution of PC and cannot be used in Pub matches. PC needs to allow for tiers so new corps and old can be separated by risk/reward and not some mandated fairness.
Right now you have to face the reality of where this game is and how to take that reality and turn it into something better. There is a base of players with a large amount of funds and it is continuing to grow. Do you remove those funds and alienate a devoted subset of your playerbase or do you find something for them to do with their ISK to create another level of the game? This allows others to move in and begin to fight for the creation of funds and resources to expand to the next level.
You cant get rid of elite players. There will always be someone to come in and take their place.
BetaMax -> Imperfects -> Cronos -> EoN -> RA -> ?
You get rid of one and there will be another just waiting to take their place and this cycle will begin again.
Proud Sponsor of the United Lamp Post Defense Fund. "Protecting Our Skies For A Better Tomorrow"
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Obodiah Garro
Tech Guard
RISE of LEGION
633
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Posted - 2014.02.03 12:03:00 -
[208] - Quote
You know PVE would correct a lot of these problems. If a new corp with a dedicated 20 man team can work away together, enjoy the game and build up a nice little war chest, I doubt they will have any problems throwing themselves to the wolves in order to 'evolve'.
Right now the whole game is a simple grind with only the top tier veterans getting any substantial reward. This inherently isnt a bad thing and indeed, probably the way it should work. However the current system is broken and new players are not only left behind but have no chance to progress outside of charity.
Isk generation is definitely one of the major problems. Any player been in the game for more than 5 minutes have no doubt heard 'run militia/bpo/free suits in ambush and make isk'. Well frankly who cba with bullshit like that when CCP can give so much more. |
Drapedup Drippedout
0uter.Heaven
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
292
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Posted - 2014.02.03 12:25:00 -
[209] - Quote
"I've boycotted PC since it came out"
Aka- I'm not good enough to play it.
Why are people who haven't played a PC in the last 5 months coming in here calling for PC to be removed?
You claim to have the skill, why no ringing? You claim to have an astute grasp of the state of PC, how?
You can certainly have an opinion about passive ISK farming, but don't come in here having been PC dormant for months and expect any active players to take you seriously.
Lets be real, this worthless majority mentioned above does exist. Some people flat out lack the skill and discipline to play PC. If this sounds like you, be upset the ISK farm affects you, but don't say get rid of PC. |
Alaika Arbosa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc.
Interstellar Murder of Crows
1504
|
Posted - 2014.02.03 13:01:00 -
[210] - Quote
Drapedup Drippedout wrote:"I've boycotted PC since it came out"
Aka- I'm not good enough to play it.
Why are people who haven't played a PC in the last 5 months coming in here calling for PC to be removed?
You claim to have the skill, why no ringing? You claim to have an astute grasp of the state of PC, how?
You can certainly have an opinion about passive ISK farming, but don't come in here having been PC dormant for months and expect any active players to take you seriously.
Lets be real, this worthless majority mentioned above does exist. Some people flat out lack the skill and discipline to play PC. If this sounds like you, be upset the ISK farm affects you, but don't say get rid of PC.
I am preserving your arrogance for posterity, if it weren't for that I wouldn't even acknowledge your post.
Look well at the presumptuous arrogance displayed by this one. Remember him for he would have himself installed as your better if he could.
Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives
Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten
Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta
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Canari Elphus
Ancient Exiles.
Renegade Alliance
1099
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Posted - 2014.02.03 14:38:00 -
[211] - Quote
Obodiah Garro - PVE would solve a lot of issues but it is just one step of many that needs to be taken by CCP to flesh out this game.
Drapedup Drippedout - I agree that there is a lack of understanding of the elements of PC from those that might not have participated in it. If they have not been involved in some of the major wars (such as the one between P5 and RA) they would not understand how taxing (time and isk wise) it can be and how enjoyable it can be to face off against other highly skilled players.
Proud Sponsor of the United Lamp Post Defense Fund. "Protecting Our Skies For A Better Tomorrow"
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Alaika Arbosa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc.
Interstellar Murder of Crows
1505
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Posted - 2014.02.03 17:30:00 -
[212] - Quote
@Canari Elphus
Ok, so I had to attend to some stuff IRL before I could devote enough attention to respond respectfully to you as it seems to me you are trying to do for me.
Only a portion of my point is directed at helping "non-combatant roles" as you put it, this is also the portion that is to represent the "passive" income that I believe would be much more acceptable than the current mechanic of fill clone quota-> rake in Isk. Rather than relying on the potential for standings to allow you to farm in peace, it would require interaction from other players, your "passive" Isk wouldn't be appearing from nowhere, it would be a direct result of player involvement in your service. I also feel that you are only viewing a small slice of the reason why "Dust players get into PC". You are viewing it from your own point of view and projecting that need for a hypercompetitive environment on all players that want to get involved in PC. I, for example, couldn't care less about a hypercompetitive environment, my desire for getting involved in PC is to claim ownership of my valley, land in New Eden, a place that I can call my own. Think of it as a provi-bloc type freeport where all would be welcome so long as they followed a few simple rules.
In addition to this, who is to say that there would never be the potential for more combat oriented activities that could be engaged in? The services would need to begin somewhere, that doesn't mean that the initial services that could be offered would forever be the only services that could be offered. You make too many assumptions.
I may make too many assumptions too I guess, since seeing that you are in AE, I assumed that you participated in the same practices I've seen many of your corp mates participate in. If my view of you being guilty by association is wrong, I apologize, I don't remember ever facing you, so I don't know if my assumption is correct or not.
Why do you feel the need to "increase competition at higher and higher levels"? In Eve, Isk in 0.0 is used for empire building and maintenance, this is only tangentially related to competition. It relates in that people will wish to expand their empire and conversely, people will want to topple your empire. If you've got an empire of ****, who will want to compete with you for it? If you want PC to evolve into that competition, you need to give us empires worth competing over. Passive Isk faucets do not an empire make.
I am in agreement with you concerning PC1 and PC2, though I disagree that fully passive Isk that is conjured from nothing is the way to go. The Isk "created" needs to come from somewhere other than the ether. Otherwise, this will exacerbate the disparity that has already been created by PC pumping out free Isk.
I believe that your idea involving the evolution "opening up new opportunities for newer players/corps to evolve as well" is misled. There will at some point become a pinnacle that cannot be surpassed and PC shouldn't be little more than an overly complex game of "King of the Hill". There will forever be limits to how many new opportunities can be opened, this cannot be changed and we will need to figure out how to work within those constraints. This is where Dust can take a queue from Eve, in that, there are large places filled with opportunities to create wealth and explore the universe. Are some of these places more profitable than others? Of course, though it still remains that there is the opportunity there, the freedom to do as you like without the need for participating in 0.0. Dusts lobby doesn't allow concessions for this, the only sandbox in Dust (if you can even really call it that) is in PC. In Dust, when you play pubs, you have no choice in where you go or who you fight without backing out of potentially innumerable matches. How is that playing the game? IDK about you, but I don't imagine that it would be fun to log in only to spend 3 hours loading into and backing out of matches trying to go precisely where you wanted to go, would you find that to be fun? In FW can you actively choose where you want to attack and when? Can you coordinate with capsuleers to plex a system in tandem? The answer to those questions is no, you can't. Once again you have no choice in where you go or who you fight (though you can choose who you fight for). Where is the sandbox in pubs? Where is the sandbox in FW? Am I to believe that you would have all players desire to get involved in the hypercompetitive environment of PC or GTFO? I believe that you would be shooting yourself in the foot with that train of thought and would seriously limit the numbers of the playerbase as well as CCP's AUR revenues (which must be taken into consideration).
I can agree with your assertions regarding older and new players. This still doesn't mean that Isk generation should be in large majority passive. While yes, evolution of the model must come eventually, the passive isk generation is poisonous to the game as it is now. If the game is poisoned now, how do you expect that it will survive long enough to evolve? Yes, PC must evolve, though the PC we have at current must become much like the evolutionary dead ends from our own history. If it doesn't the game will forever be poisoned and ultimately unappealing to a wider playerbase.
TBPF, if the choice rested solely on my shoulders, yes, the funds would be removed in their entirety, asset wealth as well as liquid wealth. Would this likely alienate a devoted (albeit small) subset of the playerbase? Yes, more than likely, would the game survive their loss? Yes, I do believe it would and it may even be stronger for the loss. Those players would be eventually be replaced and the players that took their place wouldn't have silly notions such as "Isk poofing into existence from the ether" was a good idea.
After all, you get rid of one and there will be another just waiting to take their place.
Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives
Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten
Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta
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Meknow Intaki
62
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Posted - 2014.02.03 17:32:00 -
[213] - Quote
Trying to get into PC is a big waist of time and money!!  |
Drapedup Drippedout
0uter.Heaven
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
298
|
Posted - 2014.02.03 18:04:00 -
[214] - Quote
Alaika Arbosa wrote:
I also feel that you are only viewing a small slice of the reason why "Dust players get into PC". You are viewing it from your own point of view and projecting that need for a hypercompetitive environment on all players that want to get involved in PC. I, for example, couldn't care less about a hypercompetitive environment, my desire for getting involved in PC is to claim ownership of my valley, land in New Eden, a place that I can call my own. Think of it as a provi-bloc type freeport where all would be welcome so long as they followed a few simple rules.
.
Pot, meet kettle. Sim City is that way ---------> Go build your provi-bloc freeport
This is about preventing district locking as a means for passive isk farming, not PC 2.0. |
Drapedup Drippedout
0uter.Heaven
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
298
|
Posted - 2014.02.03 18:15:00 -
[215] - Quote
Alaika Arbosa wrote:
Look well at the presumptuous arrogance displayed by this one. Remember him for he would have himself installed as your better if he could.
And yes, I am better. |
ReGnYuM
Escrow Removal and Acquisition
2028
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Posted - 2014.02.03 18:28:00 -
[216] - Quote
@ Canari Elphus
Slow Clap...
Official Imperfect Title: Supreme Leader of the Endless Sunset
I Slay, for thy Empress
Do you even PC... Brah
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Canari Elphus
Ancient Exiles.
Renegade Alliance
1108
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Posted - 2014.02.03 19:39:00 -
[217] - Quote
Alaika Arbosa
The reasoning for players to enter Dust vs EVE is two separate things. EVE is more of an RPG than Dust is right now. As CCP has stated, Dust mercs are about the acquisition of land for the time being. PC was created as sort of a free form combat structure for competitive gameplay. Just look at those who play it to understand what its being used for.
PC does not and should not be the answer to all aspirations for Dust players. If you want to move towards industry/trade then there should be something for that in Dust. However, the game should not sacrifice in one area to appease others. That is why I advocate for diversity rather than reshifting the base of this game.
Want to get rid of passive isk generation? Then propose something that generates better gear that can only be used in PC battles etc. Allow for something that allows corps to build the sandcastles that we were promised in fanfest.
Canari Elphus for CPM1
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IgniteableAura
Pro Hic Immortalis
577
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Posted - 2014.02.03 19:54:00 -
[218] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:If you have any creative solutions (as in within current rule sets) the CPM still have an open ear.
CPM knows this has been (and for a long while knew) a problem and are trying to work with CCP and the community on a favorable solution.
Remove PC from the game.
Remove 95% of the isk it generated.
Replace with corp contracts.
Implement PC 2.0 without passive isk generation.
Make PC require PVE/PVP activity to generate income. You either actively run "drone missions" on your planet or you actively fight other corps for isk. Only so many people can run PVE activity on a planet at the same time.
Remove cost to initiate an attack.
Allow reinforcement timers but only allow a single loss to lose a district.
Require CEOs of corps to build a skill in which allows them X number of districts they can hold.
Require cost of upkeep on districts that need to be paid or district is lost.
This would also allow tax on corps in PC to be useful and also not require micromanaged isk giving to corp members.
PC fixed
PHI Recruitment
or PHIsh Tank in game
Youtube
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Alaika Arbosa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc.
Interstellar Murder of Crows
1509
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Posted - 2014.02.04 03:05:00 -
[219] - Quote
Canari Elphus wrote:Alaika Arbosa
The reasoning for players to enter Dust vs EVE is two separate things. EVE is more of an RPG than Dust is right now. As CCP has stated, Dust mercs are about the acquisition of land for the time being. PC was created as sort of a free form combat structure for competitive gameplay. Just look at those who play it to understand what its being used for.
PC does not and should not be the answer to all aspirations for Dust players. If you want to move towards industry/trade then there should be something for that in Dust. However, the game should not sacrifice in one area to appease others. That is why I advocate for diversity rather than reshifting the base of this game.
Want to get rid of passive isk generation? Then propose something that generates better gear that can only be used in PC battles etc. Allow for something that allows corps to build the sandcastles that we were promised in fanfest.
Acquisition of land doesn't mean "acquisition of passive faucets". If all you want is a structure for free form competitive gameplay, why not lobby to have Districts open for player organized tournaments which provide no ISK faucet and require no ISK investment?
I never said that Dust should sacrifice in one area to appease others, I simply said that Passive ISK Generation should be put to a full stop and all wealth generated by it thus far should be reclaimed by CCP. I too want diversity despite what you may think. Now, I know what you're going to say, "You clearly said you'd willingly alienate a subset of the playerbase". Well, that isn't a lie, though alienation is a far cry from sacrifice. If those who were alienated chose to leave, that would be their choice; however if they'd leave simply because a horribly broken mechanic was being set right, well then, good riddance.
Couldn't the installations provide the gear of which you speak? I have put forward suggestions that circumvent Passive Income Generation, you seem to outright dismiss that though. There are many things that could be provided aside from free Isk from the Districts. Hell, I wouldn't even have a problem with the current "reach clone quota-> rake in Isk" design if it were tweaked to be "reach clone quota-> transport excess clones to market-> rake in Isk". It is the totally risk free and welfare state handout nature of the transaction currently that I have a problem with.
Let's look at it a little closer, first all Districts generate a set number of clone everyday, this occurs no matter what the holding corporation does, hell, they can even not log in for a month and if their district remains in their hands, it will generate clones every. *******. day. Once the clone quota has been met, excess clones are sold off to NPC buy order for guaranteed profit. Let's look at what is wrong with this, clones come from ether, clones return to ether and are replaced by Isk. It is little more than a handout, it is the safest method by which to generate Isk in all of New Eden. Even Station Trading has more risk from the oft-maligned Margin Trading scam (which btw, I think is perfectly fine, if people get punished for being greedy morons who don't think things through then they deserve to get stuck with worthless goods), yet you defend it as being more than acceptable.
The only people I have seen defend it though are from corporations who've been gaming the system and farming ISK from it for months now. Doesn't really surprise me though, gotta hang on for dear life to that passive cash cow.
Sandcastles will be built from infrastructure, not passive faucets. Passive faucets will not facilitate sandcastles being built, it will only facilitate smacking fish in a barrel.
Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives
Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten
Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta
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Dericha
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
28
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Posted - 2014.02.04 03:36:00 -
[220] - Quote
Drapedup Drippedout wrote:"I've boycotted PC since it came out"
Aka- I'm not good enough to play it.
Why are people who haven't played a PC in the last 5 months coming in here calling for PC to be removed?
You claim to have the skill, why no ringing? You claim to have an astute grasp of the state of PC, how?
You can certainly have an opinion about passive ISK farming, but don't come in here having been PC dormant for months and expect any active players to take you seriously.
Lets be real, this worthless majority mentioned above does exist. Some people flat out lack the skill and discipline to play PC. If this sounds like you, be upset the ISK farm affects you, but don't say get rid of PC.
"An ad hominem (Latin for "to the man" or "to the person"[1]), short for argumentum ad hominem, is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument." |
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low genius
The Sound Of Freedom
Renegade Alliance
1217
|
Posted - 2014.02.04 13:51:00 -
[221] - Quote
Dericha wrote:Drapedup Drippedout wrote:"I've boycotted PC since it came out"
Aka- I'm not good enough to play it.
Why are people who haven't played a PC in the last 5 months coming in here calling for PC to be removed?
You claim to have the skill, why no ringing? You claim to have an astute grasp of the state of PC, how?
You can certainly have an opinion about passive ISK farming, but don't come in here having been PC dormant for months and expect any active players to take you seriously.
Lets be real, this worthless majority mentioned above does exist. Some people flat out lack the skill and discipline to play PC. If this sounds like you, be upset the ISK farm affects you, but don't say get rid of PC. "An ad hominem (Latin for "to the man" or "to the person"[1]), short for argumentum ad hominem, is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument."
miss you in eve, dude. |
Drapedup Drippedout
0uter.Heaven
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
300
|
Posted - 2014.02.04 14:18:00 -
[222] - Quote
Dericha wrote:Drapedup Drippedout wrote:"I've boycotted PC since it came out"
Aka- I'm not good enough to play it.
Why are people who haven't played a PC in the last 5 months coming in here calling for PC to be removed?
You claim to have the skill, why no ringing? You claim to have an astute grasp of the state of PC, how?
You can certainly have an opinion about passive ISK farming, but don't come in here having been PC dormant for months and expect any active players to take you seriously.
Lets be real, this worthless majority mentioned above does exist. Some people flat out lack the skill and discipline to play PC. If this sounds like you, be upset the ISK farm affects you, but don't say get rid of PC. "An ad hominem (Latin for "to the man" or "to the person"[1]), short for argumentum ad hominem, is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument."
So the fact someone has never actually participated in a PC, that is considered irrelevant? and all opinions in the matter should be considered equal and valid, no matter the source? Am I understanding this correctly?
And while we're speaking of irrelevant...look someone from A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. |
GTA-V FTW
446
|
Posted - 2014.02.04 14:37:00 -
[223] - Quote
LOL 16 v 16 TDM
Yeah didn't see threads like this coming.
PC is a joke.
Team Truetards need to pay for a clue because they sure can not come up with one on their own.
Golden Joysticks 2013
Game of the Year
Grand Theft Auto V
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Himiko Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution
Public Disorder.
2907
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Posted - 2014.02.04 18:51:00 -
[224] - Quote
Alaika Arbosa wrote:
lol
Full of yourself much?
I am quoting this just so everyone can see exactly what your opinion of everyone who isn't one of the "Circlejerk Elite".
Besides, I'd say that you're looking to kill the dream for anyone who isn't one of you. The dream of the majority is larger than the dream of the minority. Therefore it has more gravity and is less likely to be ignored.
Unless of course, CCP really think that they can make more AUR revenues without the "worthless majority" as you have called the majority of the playerbase with your comment.
Everyone is full of themselves. Only the truly arrogant believe themselves above it. The only thing that I've personally ever cared about is whether or not the individual in question can back it up, or at least make a worthy effort. That is what leads to confrontation and the euphoria that follows.
The dreamers have to dream before they can develop that ambition. I have no desire to crush it. I have no desire to placate the unskilled masses into being content, either. If the masses are pleased, they become content and they stop dreaming. No dream, no ambition. No ambition, no conflict. No conflict, no euphoria.
It is a delicate balance, and you must be made uncomfortable to an extent. |
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