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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Thumb Green Titans of Phoenix Legacy Rising 714	Posted - 2014.02.02 23:13:00 - [181] - Quote Zerus Ni'Kator wrote: ReGnYuM wrote: The only issue right now with PC is the locking. Once this is fixed I see no problem. If you honestly have a problem with corps farming ISK then make a PC team and do something about it. The point is, getting established in PC is very hard and 90% of the people who complain in this thread neither have the ability or dedication to thrive in Molden Heath. We earned ISK unlike players who run BPO's and farm pubs with no risk You cant because all the districts are locked Moron District locking is only a problem because people don't put in the effort to stop it.; Dotlan shows the reinforcement timer for every district so all you have to do is press X faster than the guy locking the district. Support Orbital Spawns
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows 1489	Posted - 2014.02.02 23:29:00 - [182] - Quote Ares 514 wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: Unless they wanted to just print ISK for their buddies. Lol, conspiracy theory time! :) I would delve further into the theory, though they would just have it deleted. Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta
Bendtner92 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1607	Posted - 2014.02.02 23:29:00 - [183] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Brosef, I've been doing PC for months now - I know how much I make when the other team no-shows with a clone pack. You still get paid a hefty amount. And the whole bit about attacking the attacking district with a dummy corp is really very simple when you're still making money from the clones you sent to the defending district in the first place. You increase the payout from the win and you're just refunding them the money anyway because you -already- get plenty of ISK from a no-show on a clone pack as it is. Removing passive ISK Generation would be a bad idea. It's nice when you have people to attack and when people are attacking you but a lot of good it's going to do you when you don't, you'll just have this block in space with your name on it being worthless. It's basically forcing corporations and alliances to fight unnecessarily, there's no reason to do it other than "for the **** of it", that doesn't make any sense at all and there is no system in Eve Online or Dust 514 that goes off of that system. Passive ISK Generation isn't "insanely stupid", it's actually rather smart considering that you don't want them to spend extra time on PC. It gives corporations a -reason- to do PC and a reason to have districts while we wait for a way to make ISK with work involved (PvE in Null-sec Sovereignty being a primary example). Band-aids need to be applied, sure, but the band-aid your suggesting just turns PC into pub-matches where you have to start your own battles and wait a day or two before they happen. "Edit2: Passive ISK generation should never even have been implemented, so I really have no idea why you're even defending it now." ^ This is personal incredulity. If you know how much you make in PC you should really know that each clone killed = 100k ISK (amount has varied since PC was introduced, but I believe it's 100k atm) to the winning team. That means if 120 clones killed from a clone pack (and no clones lost on your team) your team gets 12 million ISK. If you're spending 36 million ISK locking a district you attacked another of your districts with to farm ISK you sure as hell aren't making a profit. Your math must be really bad tbh. Passive ISK is stupid when nothing happens. Having only active ISK ensures that there's a risk associated with rewards and also that people aren't just farming ISK in slow times. The reason to be in PC is to (or rather it should be) make ISK from winning matches, not farm ISK. If your only incentive for being in PC is to be able to just farm passive ISK GTFO. Just keep wanting CCP to not do something about PC right NOW, but wait with changes until 1.8 or maybe even later while PC corps are making billions of ISK every day at no risk messing the economy (even more) up. Removing ISK generation and fixing the refunding exploit would stop that and a ISK payout increase should give plenty of incentives to still do PC (other than just wanting to hold districts to show epeen). Winner of the EU Squad Cup & the closed beta Tester's Tournament. Go Go Power Rangers! R.I.P MAG.
Severance Pay Krullefor Organization Minmatar Republic 1016	Posted - 2014.02.02 23:31:00 - [184] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: They should hotfix removing it and all of the isk it has generated. This has the most likes in this thread. Make note of this CCP. We few, we happy few, we band of brothers; For he to-day that sheds his blood with me Shall be my brother
Severance Pay Krullefor Organization Minmatar Republic 1016	Posted - 2014.02.02 23:33:00 - [185] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: It's something we're aware of, and we're working on fixing it. Can't give a date as Chinese New Year means most of Shanghai is on holidays starting about now. We went over this last year. Just cuz china goes on vacation doesn't mean that you go on vacation. We few, we happy few, we band of brothers; For he to-day that sheds his blood with me Shall be my brother
Bendtner92 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1607	Posted - 2014.02.02 23:35:00 - [186] - Quote Severance Pay wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: They should hotfix removing it and all of the isk it has generated. This has the most likes in this thread. Make note of this CCP. I don't believe they should remove any ISK from players, but it's simply laughable how CCP hasn't done anything for weeks (hell, months) of knowing about it. Simply laughable. Winner of the EU Squad Cup & the closed beta Tester's Tournament. Go Go Power Rangers! R.I.P MAG.
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows 1489	Posted - 2014.02.02 23:41:00 - [187] - Quote Severance Pay wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: They should hotfix removing it and all of the isk it has generated. This has the most likes in this thread. Make note of this CCP. Thank you, though I must admit that the OP has the most likes in the thread (wouldn't doubt that many of them are alt likes though, gotta keep your passive cash cow alive after all despite overwhelming support throughout the rest of the thread for the removal) Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta
Canari Elphus Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 1083	Posted - 2014.02.03 01:04:00 - [188] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: Severance Pay wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: They should hotfix removing it and all of the isk it has generated. This has the most likes in this thread. Make note of this CCP. Thank you, though I must admit that the OP has the most likes in the thread (wouldn't doubt that many of them are alt likes though, gotta keep your passive cash cow alive after all despite overwhelming support throughout the rest of the thread for the removal) You do realize that the majority of locked districts in PC right now are actually to protest the ability to do so and profit right? The OP was to bring light to the fact that many corporations are fed up with the exploit and want it fixed. Are you even trying? Proud Sponsor of the United Lamp Post Defense Fund. "Protecting Our Skies For A Better Tomorrow" ¯¯¯¦¬¯`GÇó.__Gÿ+
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows 1489	Posted - 2014.02.03 01:25:00 - [189] - Quote Canari Elphus wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: Severance Pay wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: They should hotfix removing it and all of the isk it has generated. This has the most likes in this thread. Make note of this CCP. Thank you, though I must admit that the OP has the most likes in the thread (wouldn't doubt that many of them are alt likes though, gotta keep your passive cash cow alive after all despite overwhelming support throughout the rest of the thread for the removal) You do realize that the majority of locked districts in PC right now are actually to protest the ability to do so and profit right? The OP was to bring light to the fact that many corporations are fed up with the exploit and want it fixed. Are you even trying? Ah, are you aware of the difference between my post and the OP? OP simply wants the locking exploit fixed and to keep their passive ISK faucet (except when the Districts are locked). I on the other hand, want PC removed entirely until it can be brought back with zero passive ISK gain whatsoever. I am not against Districts providing a source of Active Isk Generation (PvE mob slaying for profit, selling services to capsuleers/mercs for profit etc). However Passive Isk Generation needs to go. Along with all of the passively generated wealth (asset or liquid) that it has created thus far. Anything less and it will be the death of Dust in the long term. Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta
Gelhad Thremyr Quebec United The CORVOS 45	Posted - 2014.02.03 01:30:00 - [190] - Quote So basically your saying, we should give all the fun part to eve and if people are stupid toinvest ressources dust wise whitout a character in eve..well screw you.. And this is supposed to save dust on the long run ? When an investment is made in ressource by a player isk or time he needs to assessthe risk vs gain. What you are proposing is not a high enough gain for players in dust only.

Michael Arck Onuoto Uakan Huogaatsu 3024	Posted - 2014.02.03 01:35:00 - [191] - Quote Protest profiting Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. For the State!! [email protected]
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows 1491	Posted - 2014.02.03 01:37:00 - [192] - Quote Gelhad Thremyr wrote: So basically your saying, we should give all the fun part to eve and if people are stupid toinvest ressources dust wise whitout a character in eve..well screw you.. And this is supposed to save dust on the long run ? When an investment is made in ressource by a player isk or time he needs to assessthe risk vs gain. What you are proposing is not a high enough gain for players in dust only. Um, I don't quite understand your interpretation of what I have written. Where exactly did I say that "all the fun part" should go to Eve? I don't believe I said that at all. Where exactly did I specify how much would be gained by either of the activities I put forward as acceptable sources of Active Isk Generation? Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta
Canari Elphus Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 1084	Posted - 2014.02.03 01:49:00 - [193] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: Canari Elphus wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: Severance Pay wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: They should hotfix removing it and all of the isk it has generated. This has the most likes in this thread. Make note of this CCP. Thank you, though I must admit that the OP has the most likes in the thread (wouldn't doubt that many of them are alt likes though, gotta keep your passive cash cow alive after all despite overwhelming support throughout the rest of the thread for the removal) You do realize that the majority of locked districts in PC right now are actually to protest the ability to do so and profit right? The OP was to bring light to the fact that many corporations are fed up with the exploit and want it fixed. Are you even trying? Ah, are you aware of the difference between my post and the OP? OP simply wants the locking exploit fixed and to keep their passive ISK faucet (except when the Districts are locked). I on the other hand, want PC removed entirely until it can be brought back with zero passive ISK gain whatsoever. I am not against Districts providing a source of Active Isk Generation (PvE mob slaying for profit, selling services to capsuleers/mercs for profit etc). However Passive Isk Generation needs to go. Along with all of the passively generated wealth (asset or liquid) that it has created thus far. Anything less and it will be the death of Dust in the long term. So, basically, you want the game to fail then? PC represents the pinnacle of this game right now. Its competition among the best of the best. Remove it and this game becomes a simple lobby shooter and nothing more. Remove it and you lose a huge chunk of your player base. Removing the ISK generated from locking districts will not do much to reduce the wealth. The problem isnt that people are generating ISK, its that it secures the district so that others cannot attack it at all. It allows the corp to attack others without reprisal. Again, you want to stop a corp from generating ISK? Attack the district and try to take it from them. The majority of corps in PC do not lock their districts and they can be attacked at any time. Right now you just sound like someone who is bitter and vindictive and wants nothing other than to punish those whom you felt wronged you. Those corps that are protesting this arent asking for reprisals against those that are doing it and they are impacted the most. If you want to change how PC works then propose something that is attractive to Dust mercs and not something that just benefits a minority. Proud Sponsor of the United Lamp Post Defense Fund. "Protecting Our Skies For A Better Tomorrow" ¯¯¯¦¬¯`GÇó.__Gÿ+
Michael Arck Onuoto Uakan Huogaatsu 3025	Posted - 2014.02.03 02:02:00 - [194] - Quote So PC wasn't in stagnation even before the lockout problem? That the push for some newer corporations to come in to create variety in PC wasn't talked about and discussed ten times over because of the dullness of it? PC was dying before the locking district problem, its just that now the locking districts is the main topic. It's the same folks fighting the same folks. That can't possibly be fun and this game has been called a lobby shooter by the "elite" of PC. Not forgetting how bad the PFC concept is...which is another story. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. For the State!! [email protected]
low genius The Sound Of Freedom Renegade Alliance 1201	Posted - 2014.02.03 02:11:00 - [195] - Quote I don't care how much money is available to be made. I care that you can make money without taking any risk. that's not new eden.
Canari Elphus Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 1086	Posted - 2014.02.03 02:18:00 - [196] - Quote Michael Arck wrote: So PC wasn't in stagnation even before the lockout problem? That the push for some newer corporations to come in to create variety in PC wasn't talked about and discussed ten times over because of the dullness of it? PC was dying before the locking district problem, its just that now the locking districts is the main topic. It's the same folks fighting the same folks. That can't possibly be fun and this game has been called a lobby shooter by the "elite" of PC. Not forgetting how bad the PFC concept is...which is another story. PC has many issues and does need a lot of work. District locking has been an issue talked about for a while and some decided its finally time to do something about it. Do you honestly believe that people in PC dont want competition? Playing organized battles in a 16v16 format is what makes it worth getting into. Players are not perfect and this is admitted. It should be on CCP to make a system that helps foster competition. PFC was an attempt to help prepare corps for PC but it shouldt be the playerbase's responsibility to have to try to create something like that. Something of a solution for this would be to give a high-sec 'district' to every corporation in Dust. The district can accumulate clones up until its limit but all excess clones do not gain a profit for the corporation. The would be turned over to Concord (the police) to limit military build up in high-sec. This gives all corps the ability to launch at least one full attack on a district every couple days and the rest could be done via cone pack should they want to attack more. This strategy might be flawed but it adds something to the game rather than to make it less interesting. Proud Sponsor of the United Lamp Post Defense Fund. "Protecting Our Skies For A Better Tomorrow" ¯¯¯¦¬¯`GÇó.__Gÿ+
Michael Arck Onuoto Uakan Huogaatsu 3026	Posted - 2014.02.03 02:21:00 - [197] - Quote Canari Elphus wrote: Michael Arck wrote: So PC wasn't in stagnation even before the lockout problem? That the push for some newer corporations to come in to create variety in PC wasn't talked about and discussed ten times over because of the dullness of it? PC was dying before the locking district problem, its just that now the locking districts is the main topic. It's the same folks fighting the same folks. That can't possibly be fun and this game has been called a lobby shooter by the "elite" of PC. Not forgetting how bad the PFC concept is...which is another story. PC has many issues and does need a lot of work. District locking has been an issue talked about for a while and some decided its finally time to do something about it. Do you honestly believe that people in PC dont want competition? Playing organized battles in a 16v16 format is what makes it worth getting into. Players are not perfect and this is admitted. It should be on CCP to make a system that helps foster competition. PFC was an attempt to help prepare corps for PC but it shouldt be the playerbase's responsibility to have to try to create something like that. Something of a solution for this would be to give a high-sec 'district' to every corporation in Dust. The district can accumulate clones up until its limit but all excess clones do not gain a profit for the corporation. The would be turned over to Concord (the police) to limit military build up in high-sec. This gives all corps the ability to launch at least one full attack on a district every couple days and the rest could be done via cone pack should they want to attack more. This strategy might be flawed but it adds something to the game rather than to make it less interesting. Respectable response +1 Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. For the State!! [email protected]
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows 1493	Posted - 2014.02.03 02:23:00 - [198] - Quote Canari Elphus wrote: So, basically, you want the game to fail then? PC represents the pinnacle of this game right now. Its competition among the best of the best. Remove it and this game becomes a simple lobby shooter and nothing more. Remove it and you lose a huge chunk of your player base. Removing the ISK generated from locking districts will not do much to reduce the wealth. The problem isnt that people are generating ISK, its that it secures the district so that others cannot attack it at all. It allows the corp to attack others without reprisal. Again, you want to stop a corp from generating ISK? Attack the district and try to take it from them. The majority of corps in PC do not lock their districts and they can be attacked at any time. Right now you just sound like someone who is bitter and vindictive and wants nothing other than to punish those whom you felt wronged you. Those corps that are protesting this arent asking for reprisals against those that are doing it and they are impacted the most. If you want to change how PC works then propose something that is attractive to Dust mercs and not something that just benefits a minority. No, I want the game to prosper in the longterm. PC is the pinnacle of the game how? Does everyone play it? Of those that do play it, no one complains of soulcrushing lag or the exploits that people use? It is competition among "the best of the best"? Sounds like a 1% circlejerk if you ask me. Even with PC, this game is a simple lobby shooter. Remove it and we lose a small fraction of the playerbase that we'd probably be better off without anyway. You say "Removing the ISK generated from locking districts will not do much to reduce the wealth", that is exactly my point. So we are to just try to take it from them when they're able to sit with their thumb up their asses and make Isk while we need to grind the isk by facing them in pubs where they faceroll everyone with proto gear that they can throw away for months while we need to scrimp every single penny we can just to have a chance at attacking them? Beyond that, once we get a player market, it will be dominated by those same thumbsitters who will jack prices to a point where no one can afford to buy anything beyond STD if that. How is what I have already proposed multiple times in this thread not attractive to Dust mercs on the whole rather than to the small minority that is involved in PC? You say I want the game to die, I say you want the game to die. The reason you say I want it to die is because I want a broken mechanic that benefits a small minority removed while it is reworked and the damage it has done is reversed. I say you want the game to die because you want the status quo to go on with a minor tweak so that you can **** the future of this game right in the ass. I think that Dust would have a better chance at longterm survival by ignoring the minority who obviously feel they are the only ones who should be playing than it would by listening to the same minority and destroying any real chance of longterm growth. Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta
Michael Arck Onuoto Uakan Huogaatsu 3026	Posted - 2014.02.03 02:25:00 - [199] - Quote Some interesting arguments here... Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. For the State!! [email protected]
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution 2897	Posted - 2014.02.03 02:26:00 - [200] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: Canari Elphus wrote: So, basically, you want the game to fail then? PC represents the pinnacle of this game right now. Its competition among the best of the best. Remove it and this game becomes a simple lobby shooter and nothing more. Remove it and you lose a huge chunk of your player base. Removing the ISK generated from locking districts will not do much to reduce the wealth. The problem isnt that people are generating ISK, its that it secures the district so that others cannot attack it at all. It allows the corp to attack others without reprisal. Again, you want to stop a corp from generating ISK? Attack the district and try to take it from them. The majority of corps in PC do not lock their districts and they can be attacked at any time. Right now you just sound like someone who is bitter and vindictive and wants nothing other than to punish those whom you felt wronged you. Those corps that are protesting this arent asking for reprisals against those that are doing it and they are impacted the most. If you want to change how PC works then propose something that is attractive to Dust mercs and not something that just benefits a minority. No, I want the game to prosper in the longterm. PC is the pinnacle of the game how? Does everyone play it? Of those that do play it, no one complains of soulcrushing lag or the exploits that people use? It is competition among "the best of the best"? Sounds like a 1% circlejerk if you ask me. Even with PC, this game is a simple lobby shooter. Remove it and we lose a small fraction of the playerbase that we'd probably be better off without anyway. You say "Removing the ISK generated from locking districts will not do much to reduce the wealth", that is exactly my point. So we are to just try to take it from them when they're able to sit with their thumb up their asses and make Isk while we need to grind the isk by facing them in pubs where they faceroll everyone with proto gear that they can throw away for months while we need to scrimp every single penny we can just to have a chance at attacking them? Beyond that, once we get a player market, it will be dominated by those same thumbsitters who will jack prices to a point where no one can afford to buy anything beyond STD if that. How is what I have already proposed multiple times in this thread not attractive to Dust mercs on the whole rather than to the small minority that is involved in PC? You say I want the game to die, I say you want the game to die. The reason you say I want it to die is because I want a broken mechanic that benefits a small minority removed while it is reworked and the damage it has done is reversed. I say you want the game to die because you want the status quo to go on with a minor tweak so that you can **** the future of this game right in the ass. I think that Dust would have a better chance at longterm survival by ignoring the minority who obviously feel they are the only ones who should be playing than it would by listening to the same minority and destroying any real chance of longterm growth. The worthless majority aspire to be what they cannot be. Kill the dream, and you kill the soul. Kill the soul, and the body soon follows.

Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows 1494	Posted - 2014.02.03 02:32:00 - [201] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: Canari Elphus wrote: So, basically, you want the game to fail then? PC represents the pinnacle of this game right now. Its competition among the best of the best. Remove it and this game becomes a simple lobby shooter and nothing more. Remove it and you lose a huge chunk of your player base. Removing the ISK generated from locking districts will not do much to reduce the wealth. The problem isnt that people are generating ISK, its that it secures the district so that others cannot attack it at all. It allows the corp to attack others without reprisal. Again, you want to stop a corp from generating ISK? Attack the district and try to take it from them. The majority of corps in PC do not lock their districts and they can be attacked at any time. Right now you just sound like someone who is bitter and vindictive and wants nothing other than to punish those whom you felt wronged you. Those corps that are protesting this arent asking for reprisals against those that are doing it and they are impacted the most. If you want to change how PC works then propose something that is attractive to Dust mercs and not something that just benefits a minority. No, I want the game to prosper in the longterm. PC is the pinnacle of the game how? Does everyone play it? Of those that do play it, no one complains of soulcrushing lag or the exploits that people use? It is competition among "the best of the best"? Sounds like a 1% circlejerk if you ask me. Even with PC, this game is a simple lobby shooter. Remove it and we lose a small fraction of the playerbase that we'd probably be better off without anyway. You say "Removing the ISK generated from locking districts will not do much to reduce the wealth", that is exactly my point. So we are to just try to take it from them when they're able to sit with their thumb up their asses and make Isk while we need to grind the isk by facing them in pubs where they faceroll everyone with proto gear that they can throw away for months while we need to scrimp every single penny we can just to have a chance at attacking them? Beyond that, once we get a player market, it will be dominated by those same thumbsitters who will jack prices to a point where no one can afford to buy anything beyond STD if that. How is what I have already proposed multiple times in this thread not attractive to Dust mercs on the whole rather than to the small minority that is involved in PC? You say I want the game to die, I say you want the game to die. The reason you say I want it to die is because I want a broken mechanic that benefits a small minority removed while it is reworked and the damage it has done is reversed. I say you want the game to die because you want the status quo to go on with a minor tweak so that you can **** the future of this game right in the ass. I think that Dust would have a better chance at longterm survival by ignoring the minority who obviously feel they are the only ones who should be playing than it would by listening to the same minority and destroying any real chance of longterm growth. The worthless majority aspire to be what they cannot be. Kill the dream, and you kill the soul. Kill the soul, and the body soon follows. lol Full of yourself much? I am quoting this just so everyone can see exactly what your opinion of everyone who isn't one of the "Circlejerk Elite". Besides, I'd say that you're looking to kill the dream for anyone who isn't one of you. The dream of the majority is larger than the dream of the minority. Therefore it has more gravity and is less likely to be ignored. Unless of course, CCP really think that they can make more AUR revenues without the "worthless majority" as you have called the majority of the playerbase with your comment. Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta
Michael Arck Onuoto Uakan Huogaatsu 3027	Posted - 2014.02.03 02:39:00 - [202] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: Canari Elphus wrote: So, basically, you want the game to fail then? PC represents the pinnacle of this game right now. Its competition among the best of the best. Remove it and this game becomes a simple lobby shooter and nothing more. Remove it and you lose a huge chunk of your player base. Removing the ISK generated from locking districts will not do much to reduce the wealth. The problem isnt that people are generating ISK, its that it secures the district so that others cannot attack it at all. It allows the corp to attack others without reprisal. Again, you want to stop a corp from generating ISK? Attack the district and try to take it from them. The majority of corps in PC do not lock their districts and they can be attacked at any time. Right now you just sound like someone who is bitter and vindictive and wants nothing other than to punish those whom you felt wronged you. Those corps that are protesting this arent asking for reprisals against those that are doing it and they are impacted the most. If you want to change how PC works then propose something that is attractive to Dust mercs and not something that just benefits a minority. No, I want the game to prosper in the longterm. PC is the pinnacle of the game how? Does everyone play it? Of those that do play it, no one complains of soulcrushing lag or the exploits that people use? It is competition among "the best of the best"? Sounds like a 1% circlejerk if you ask me. Even with PC, this game is a simple lobby shooter. Remove it and we lose a small fraction of the playerbase that we'd probably be better off without anyway. You say "Removing the ISK generated from locking districts will not do much to reduce the wealth", that is exactly my point. So we are to just try to take it from them when they're able to sit with their thumb up their asses and make Isk while we need to grind the isk by facing them in pubs where they faceroll everyone with proto gear that they can throw away for months while we need to scrimp every single penny we can just to have a chance at attacking them? Beyond that, once we get a player market, it will be dominated by those same thumbsitters who will jack prices to a point where no one can afford to buy anything beyond STD if that. How is what I have already proposed multiple times in this thread not attractive to Dust mercs on the whole rather than to the small minority that is involved in PC? You say I want the game to die, I say you want the game to die. The reason you say I want it to die is because I want a broken mechanic that benefits a small minority removed while it is reworked and the damage it has done is reversed. I say you want the game to die because you want the status quo to go on with a minor tweak so that you can **** the future of this game right in the ass. I think that Dust would have a better chance at longterm survival by ignoring the minority who obviously feel they are the only ones who should be playing than it would by listening to the same minority and destroying any real chance of longterm growth. The worthless majority aspire to be what they cannot be. Kill the dream, and you kill the soul. Kill the soul, and the body soon follows. What a arrogant post. So it's the "worthless majority" because dudes in PC can push buttons better than the majority? You need the majority. If you don't have new blood in PC, its the same people fighting over and over again. Then PC becomes stale...hence why threads were made about ways to correct PFC to help the majority gain training so some new blood can come in and why discussions has been had on how to welcome corps into PC. The shuffling of lineups isn't going to make PC better. The "high and mighty" attitude isn't going to make it better either. Cause when that majority leave, its just the minority still playing with each other and once the majority leaves, the minority will too. So you're shooting yourself in the foot thinking otherwise. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. For the State!! [email protected]
Canari Elphus Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 1090	Posted - 2014.02.03 02:53:00 - [203] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: No, I want the game to prosper in the longterm. PC is the pinnacle of the game how? Does everyone play it? Of those that do play it, no one complains of soulcrushing lag or the exploits that people use? Lag has been corrected to an extent. Exploits have been removed when brought up. Most exploits were discovered in either PC games or tournaments which actually helps the community as a whole. Locking is just another exploit that we hope to get fixed. CCP has even stated that PC is what they want this game to be. Its about building a 'sandcastle' in a persistent universe. CCP has never had an issue with people creating almost unbeatable empires. As long as the opportunity is there for everyone and its not created through exploits, its all free game. Alaika Arbosa wrote: It is competition among "the best of the best"? Sounds like a 1% circlejerk if you ask me. Even with PC, this game is a simple lobby shooter. Remove it and we lose a small fraction of the playerbase that we'd probably be better off without anyway. Remove PC and you remove what this game is moving towards. Remove risk/reward and the ability to build something and CCP might as well cancel the game. Who are you to decide what players should leave and which should stay? Maybe we should remove all players who are snipers next as many feel that they dont help the game either. Alaika Arbosa wrote: You say "Removing the ISK generated from locking districts will not do much to reduce the wealth", that is exactly my point. So we are to just try to take it from them when they're able to sit with their thumb up their asses and make Isk while we need to grind the isk by facing them in pubs where they faceroll everyone with proto gear that they can throw away for months while we need to scrimp every single penny we can just to have a chance at attacking them? Beyond that, once we get a player market, it will be dominated by those same thumbsitters who will jack prices to a point where no one can afford to buy anything beyond STD if that. The reason is that those corps that are locking their districts are doing so to avoid getting attacked. Once they get attacked, they will lose all the money they have stockpiled plus some. PC wars are very expensive and can cost billions per week if it is full out. Alaika Arbosa wrote: How is what I have already proposed multiple times in this thread not attractive to Dust mercs on the whole rather than to the small minority that is involved in PC? Because you want to make the reason for being in PC less attractive than it already is rather than make it more attractive to corps who have not yet tried their hand in it. You want to just feel more comfortable in safe little pub matches where all you have to do is just move onto the less meaningless game. I want to find ways to get more people involved into the risk/reward scenario of what this game will turn into eventually. Alaika Arbosa wrote: You say I want the game to die, I say you want the game to die. The reason you say I want it to die is because I want a broken mechanic that benefits a small minority removed while it is reworked and the damage it has done is reversed. I say you want the game to die because you want the status quo to go on with a minor tweak so that you can ** the future of this game right in the ass. I think that Dust would have a better chance at longterm survival by ignoring the minority who obviously feel they are the only ones who should be playing than it would by listening to the same minority and destroying any real chance of longterm growth. Did you even read the massive post I put up about CCP needing to find ways for corps to use excess ISK beyond pub matches? You are so blinded by your prejudice against corps involved in PC that you cannot even see alternatives that might actually benefit it rather than dull it down. Why dont you wipe the frothy spittle from your mouth and actually read the comments I have posted up. Proud Sponsor of the United Lamp Post Defense Fund**. "Protecting Our Skies For A Better Tomorrow" ¯¯¯¦¬¯`GÇó.__Gÿ+
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows 1497	Posted - 2014.02.03 03:24:00 - [204] - Quote @Canari Elphus I only said remove PC for the time being until it can be brought back without the Passive Isk Generation. I never once said that it should never come back, only that the Passive Isk Generation should never come back. Yeah, PC wars are very expensive and can cost billions per week if it is full out? So how can anyone who isn't already involved in PC afford to attack full out against those already established? Passive Isk generation is only attractive because you can sit there and do nothing and still make Isk. Active Isk generation can be just as attractive if you're willing to accept that you need to take a risk to get a reward. This is after all, New Eden and there should be no free cookies. Passive Isk generation is just that, free cookies. Hell, the Passive Isk Generation in Eve isn't even as free as it is in Dust since you need to get your moon goo to market to actually make a profit, in Dust it is just fill up the clone limit and rake in Isk. You can tell me what I want when you see the world through my eyes, until then, I'll thank you to not put words in my mouth. I want more than pubs and tbh, I want to be involved in PC, just not this broken joke that it currently is. This is why I boycott PC and have boycotted PC since it was released as a game feature. I looked forward to PC until I saw how broken it was and that it was just going to be a passive faucet. I wanted it to be so much more than that, though it isn't. It is a joke, nothing more than another lobby to sit in, in which you can watch your balance sheet get fatter. I wonder how you would fair if you didn't have the Passive Income from PC, would you stick around so you could grind pubs for Isk so you can keep your head above water? I doubt it. If you mean what you say when you say "I want to find ways to get more people involved into the risk/reward scenario of what this game will turn into eventually" you would support the removal of the broken system until a not broken system could be implemented. I wonder how many people would be playing Dust right now if it hadn't been for them getting facerolled by a PC corp protostomping squad their first match out of Academy, do you care? I am betting no. All of the PC corps claim to want new blood in the mix and yet they don't change their behaviors, they just continue raking in passive isk and pissing it away as proto gear in pubs. Personally, I think it is funny that you find the bed you've made to be uncomfortable. Did you even read the posts I put up about ways to actively generate isk? I am betting not, you saw "no passive isk" and overlooked the rest of the post. If you think this is me foaming at the mouth, you haven't seen **** yet. Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta
Canari Elphus Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 1092	Posted - 2014.02.03 06:07:00 - [205] - Quote I have seen your suggestions and I feel that it would only appeal to a small minority in both Dust and in EVE. CCP wants Dust to turn into EVE so that the two can mesh together. To do that, they need to up the ante in a progressive fashion. They want larger scale battles like what just happened in EVE where hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of ships were destroyed. By just making PC generate research/industry/etc slots in EVE, Dust has no future beyond minor relevance in EVE and has zero incentive to evolve for mercs that do not want to worry about an EVE counterpart. It also has no bearing on the major players in 0.0 space in EVE who are the ones who are massive drivers to the game. You are looking for a way to curb protostomping by making PC less attractive with no evolution. Why? Because you just want to solve an issue that pertains to you right now and not the future of the game. Instead of asking how to make this game grander, you seek to add banality so players dont get picked on. The problem with that is that it is the complete opposite of what the roadmap of CCP is in aligning it with EVE. EVE is even more unfair than Dust is. There are no starter fits and the imbalance between new players and vets is extreme. The imbalance of wealth is extreme. Should there be more opportunity for smaller corps to get into PC? Of course, PC is way too small and uncomplicated right now. CCP just threw it out there and hoped it would sate the population while they worked on it. Should there be some sort of opportunity for players to have a growing experience outside of PC? Yes, as that is what happens in EVE. These games are all about risk and reward. PC will always have the greatest reward because it has the greatest risk and the greatest competition. This is also why it should not have the ability to lock districts as its removes the risk. Instead of complaining about PC and how its only for the snobby 1%, how about coming up with ideas for how those that do not want to participate in it can have better experiences in the game? Think about expanding the complexity rather than dulling it. What I find ridiculous is that you are arguing with me when Im giving you points that we can actually agree on. Yes, PC is a passive faucet and it should have great rewards associated with it because it requires much more involvement in the game. However, that faucet should be directed into other ventures that make the game more complex rather than just fueling protogear in pub matches. It should be about ever increasing arms races against other corporations that want to participate in PC which doesnt exist right now. By adding layers of complexity in PC, it gives tiers to it and outlets for the ISK. This solves all the problems in multiple ways 1 - With more ISK involved with escalation of PC, it means less will be available for use in protogear in pub matches 2 - With more levels of complexity in PC, it means that more and more time of veteran players will be devoted to their 'empire' so they wouldnt even be in a lot of pubs to begin with 3 - By adding tiers to PC (say low-sec districts versus null sec), it helps to segregate those just starting out in PC versus those with lots of experience in it. Instead of making the rewards so dull that few want to participate in it, you have to think on continually extending the carrot so that the next step is so attractive that players will move on to it and make room for other players to fill the positions that were just vacated. What this game lacks is something beyond the PC of where we are at right now. CCP has not developed the next step and that is frustrating everyone. There are a lot of young decent corps that are more than ready to move into low sec PC but they are not given the chance because CCP has not given those corps that are experienced in PC something to move on to and abandon their districts to the next wave. Stop thinking about how to make it so everyone has the same stuff and start thinking about how to make it so everyone has the same opportunities. Proud Sponsor of the United Lamp Post Defense Fund. "Protecting Our Skies For A Better Tomorrow" ¯¯¯¦¬¯`GÇó.__Gÿ+
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows 1497	Posted - 2014.02.03 08:09:00 - [206] - Quote Where did I say that they would only generate slots in Eve? I didn't, I said that they would generate slots available in Eve until we were given the same capabilities that can be found in Eve, indicating that they would eventually be open to mercs as well once we had the opportunity. Where do you get "no evolution" in my suggestions? You are imagining that as you want to give my ideas no credence as evidenced by your narrow view of what I see my suggestions encompassing. I have a question for you, have you yourself played Eve? Have you experienced 0.0? Have you seen the complaints on the EveO forums regarding the abysmal conditions for Industry in 0.0? As it is now, most items in 0.0 need to be hauled in, the materials for T2 Production are most predominantly found in 0.0 and yet where is most T2 production done? In Empire, this makes no sense. The materials are there, the will is there, the only things missing are the slots and appropriate infrastructure. My proposal for PC could provide just such Infrastructure, infrastructure that couldn't be hotdropped and reinforced (therefore interrupting all processes on that tower). It would provide a safer and more stable platform for the pursuit of industry which would bring prosperity to both Capsuleer and Merc as well as allowing more activity to flourish in 0.0 (no more, ohnoes, I need to get so and so hauled in or I can't do that cause I don't have the ships). There is plenty of room for evolution in my proposals, you just don't want to see it because you are too attached to the teat of Passive Income. I am quite frankly thoroughly confused by how you cannot see protostomping as detrimental to the longterm health of the game as well as how it is having a negative impact on not only player numbers, but also on media perception from critics. Protostomping doesn't just pertain to me, it pertains to all of us, despite how much you might get a raging hardon for how "l33t" your gungame skills are because you can faceroll people with your protogear, it is not helping. You might think it is, because it makes you feel good about yourself, but all those guys getting facerolled, don't feel good about Dust after you get your jollies on stomping them. You mistakenly infer that I wish to inject banality "so players don't get picked on". Quite the contrary, I want players to be able to be picked on, just in an environment where they can escape it by way of shrewd decision making and skill at evasion. Smacking fish in a barrel isn't difficult at all, this is all that your doing by picking on people in the lobby. Try smacking fish in the ocean, where they can evade you, flee off along another current and go about their business there all the while with you pursuing them. Another benefit of this would be that they can smack you back if you're not paying attention. Again, I must ask you if you have ever played Eve? If you had, you'd know all about the free noobships you get when you dock in your pod. These are the equivalent of Dust starter fits, they exist and they are analogous to one another. I will grant that the imbalance between new players and vets is extreme in Eve, however, it works there. In Eve, you aren't forced to face off against a team of 16 guys with 15 guys at your side. In Eve, you can roam freely and do as you please for the most part, this is not so in Dust. In Eve, if you are getting facerolled by vets when you go into a particular system, you can choose to not go into that system while still actively participating in the game. Yes, I will agree with you that PC should have the greatest rewards available in the game, however the PC that CCP "just threw" at us should've been just thrown in the bin. It is/was half-ass, poorly thought out and laughable in the extreme. PC as it exists currently will never be for those outside of the snobby 1%, that is just the way that it is. There will never be an opening for anyone who doesn't kowtow to them for a place as renters or as sycophants clamoring for crumbs. The Passive faucet has made sure of that and has absolutely no place in New Eden as it amounts to free cookies. The suggestions you put forward for "adding layers of complexity" simply smack of larger barriers, increasing costs for escalation? Who will be able to afford these aside from those who've been bathing in the faucet the longest? In addition to their financial advantage, you want to make it so that vets have little more to do than faceroll any newcomers? Let me guess, nullsec faucets would be even greater in flow than lowsec faucets right? So you're actually proposing that passive income generation be ramped up? Are you mad? I don't want everyone to have the same stuff, I do want everyone to have the same opportunities. It sounds to me like you simply want to have more opportunities for your self and those who've been taking advantage of the raking of passive Isk the longest. This isn't the right path to take. Everyone should have the same opportunities, the same chances to work at actively making that Isk rather than having it poured out for them as if they were entitled to a handout. Tech wasn't worth very much before Goons went and seized all of the Tech moons and created a monopoly (or as close to one as they could). They took them, defended them and manipulated the market to make their wealth. CCP didn't just say "hey, you guys with the tech moons over there, we're just going to print isk for you day and night". They seized an opportunity to take a mediocre moon goo and turn it into the highest priced moon goo there was until CCP changed up Alchemy and made it so that people could bypass not having a Tech moon to create their own "tech wealth". Utilizing resources to make wealth is a good thing, so long as you are actively working towards creating that wealth and not just having it handed to you on a silver platter. PIG is Anti-New Eden and needs to go. Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta
Canari Elphus Ancient Exiles. Renegade Alliance 1092	Posted - 2014.02.03 08:45:00 - [207] - Quote Yes, I have an EVE toon and it is not a high sec carebear. Your point is to use PC to create something that helps non-combatant roles. The issue with that is the reason that Dust players get into PC is because of the heightened competition that takes place at that level. That will never change. The same corps will follow each other up the ladder to prove they are better than the others. They want battle and they want to engage in activities that helps the further that goal. PC rewards need to be aimed towards escalating that purpose. Turning it into industry slots whether it is in Dust or EVE is not aligned with that desire for PVP. Why do you keep accusing me of trying to increase protostomping in pub matches? All of my proposals have been about finding ways to use he ISK from PC to increase competition at higher and higher levels. In EVE, 0.0 players use it to build structures and move into bigger and bigger ships. That is what leads to all out brawls like the one that just happened last week where dozens upon dozens of titans and dreads went against each other. That is where PC needs to evolve to. PC1 needs to be interesting/rewarding/involved enough so players tend to stick to it rather than pub matches PC2 needs to be interesting/rewarding/involved enough so that players migrate to it over PC1 The idea is to let corps keep evolving so that they leave the lower tiers behind so they an keep up with their competition. As they evolve, it opens up new opportunities for newer players/corps to evolve as well. You cannot keep older players without continually extending the challenges and rewards for them You cannot attract new players without having the veterans move to to create room for them Its not the ISK generation that is the major problem but the lack of evolution in this game. There is nothing bigger or better beyond a proto suit/weapon, a standard tank or owning a simple PC district. That is what needs to be changed. There needs to be stuff that is bigger and better that is only applicable to the evolution of PC and cannot be used in Pub matches. PC needs to allow for tiers so new corps and old can be separated by risk/reward and not some mandated fairness. Right now you have to face the reality of where this game is and how to take that reality and turn it into something better. There is a base of players with a large amount of funds and it is continuing to grow. Do you remove those funds and alienate a devoted subset of your playerbase or do you find something for them to do with their ISK to create another level of the game? This allows others to move in and begin to fight for the creation of funds and resources to expand to the next level. You cant get rid of elite players. There will always be someone to come in and take their place. BetaMax -> Imperfects -> Cronos -> EoN -> RA -> ? You get rid of one and there will be another just waiting to take their place and this cycle will begin again. Proud Sponsor of the United Lamp Post Defense Fund. "Protecting Our Skies For A Better Tomorrow" ¯¯¯¦¬¯`GÇó.__Gÿ+
Obodiah Garro Tech Guard RISE of LEGION 633	Posted - 2014.02.03 12:03:00 - [208] - Quote You know PVE would correct a lot of these problems. If a new corp with a dedicated 20 man team can work away together, enjoy the game and build up a nice little war chest, I doubt they will have any problems throwing themselves to the wolves in order to 'evolve'. Right now the whole game is a simple grind with only the top tier veterans getting any substantial reward. This inherently isnt a bad thing and indeed, probably the way it should work. However the current system is broken and new players are not only left behind but have no chance to progress outside of charity. Isk generation is definitely one of the major problems. Any player been in the game for more than 5 minutes have no doubt heard 'run militia/bpo/free suits in ambush and make isk'. Well frankly who cba with bullshit like that when CCP can give so much more.
Drapedup Drippedout 0uter.Heaven Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 292	Posted - 2014.02.03 12:25:00 - [209] - Quote "I've boycotted PC since it came out" Aka- I'm not good enough to play it. Why are people who haven't played a PC in the last 5 months coming in here calling for PC to be removed? You claim to have the skill, why no ringing? You claim to have an astute grasp of the state of PC, how? You can certainly have an opinion about passive ISK farming, but don't come in here having been PC dormant for months and expect any active players to take you seriously. Lets be real, this worthless majority mentioned above does exist. Some people flat out lack the skill and discipline to play PC. If this sounds like you, be upset the ISK farm affects you, but don't say get rid of PC.
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows 1504	Posted - 2014.02.03 13:01:00 - [210] - Quote Drapedup Drippedout wrote: "I've boycotted PC since it came out" Aka- I'm not good enough to play it. Why are people who haven't played a PC in the last 5 months coming in here calling for PC to be removed? You claim to have the skill, why no ringing? You claim to have an astute grasp of the state of PC, how? You can certainly have an opinion about passive ISK farming, but don't come in here having been PC dormant for months and expect any active players to take you seriously. Lets be real, this worthless majority mentioned above does exist. Some people flat out lack the skill and discipline to play PC. If this sounds like you, be upset the ISK farm affects you, but don't say get rid of PC. I am preserving your arrogance for posterity, if it weren't for that I wouldn't even acknowledge your post. Look well at the presumptuous arrogance displayed by this one. Remember him for he would have himself installed as your better if he could. Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives Karin Midular, gone, never forgotten Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta



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