Why is it that whenever I here a Dev speak of CCP Shanghai they are always on vacation.

It's not just he 200k isk per clone; there's usually a baseline 1,000,000 per player active. Fielding a 16 man team and killing off all 120 clones would net you a 4m ISK profit.

And yes, the attacking district can always be attacked by anyone else - including your dummy corp that you're using to lock up the districts in the first place.

There's no easy way out of this, you can't just up and remove ISK generation without giving some other reason for having territory in the first place. Two million a day would cover the losses of perhaps three, maybe four people who took the time out of their day to defend it. The entire reason the ISK generation was increased to begin with was because people were losing more ISK than they were gaining, which I usually don't have much of a problem with but the band-aid proposed doesn't give any incentive to do PC at all. Corporations would be exhausting more effort to keep the districts than they were worth.

It's been eight months. At this point, we're long overdue for the meaningful interaction PC was supposed to provide; so it's not out of the realm of belief to want to see that happen. I'm a patient guy though, and I know PC 2.0 likely isn't going to come for at least another few months - on the other hand, the band aid applied shouldn't be yet another knee jerk reaction to people getting riled up and screaming "remove" or "nerf". This needs to be handled with a scalpel and none of the solutions proposed here are scalpel changes.

1. There isn't a baseline million ISK per player active. You are aware that all clones killed, including your own teams, is a part of the payout to the winning team? Thus, if you kill 150 clones and lose 100 yourself the winning team will get 25 million ISK or around 1.5 million per player. There is no more ISK than what comes from clones killed.

2. If people was losing ISK even if they were winning you increase active ISK generation (ISK payouts for winning), not pump passive ISK generation to insane levels. Passive ISK generation shouldn't cover your losses, winning should, so there would be no problem with removing passive ISK generation altogether or reduce it to a symbolic value of 2 million or less ISK per district per day.

3. If you're farming active ISK generation from attacking yourself from another district, the attacking district can always be attacked by anyone else. I have no idea why you're talking about a dummy corp attacking the attacking district, because if you're locking the attacking district up with a clone pack you just threw the profit you wanted to make completely out of the window.

4. Removing passive ISK generation would not remove all incentives to have districts. You would want to have districts to be able to attack others without the use of clone packs. The incentive in PC is about getting districts to be able to attack and make ISK from winning those matches.

5. I don't want CCP to allocate resources to try and improve PC. That would be entirely pointless. Let them work on other aspects that sorely needs the work, and give PC these few bandaids to keep it running. Removing ISK generation and fixing the refunding exploit would do exactly that.

Edit: Not to mention that redesigns of PC would take a while to be implemented, meanwhile PC corps are making billions of ISK EVERY day with NO risk. Removing ISK generation and fixing the refunding exploit would put a stop to that right now.

Edit2: Passive ISK generation should never even have been implemented, so I really have no idea why you're even defending it now. Passive ISK generation is insanely stupid and just needs to be deleted and forgotten about.

This^

You're suggesting vehicles killed don't affect isk payouts?

1. There isn't a baseline million ISK per player active. You are aware that all clones killed, including your own teams, is a part of the payout to the winning team? Thus, if you kill 150 clones and lose 100 yourself the winning team will get 25 million ISK or around 1.5 million per player. There is no more ISK than what comes from clones killed.

2. If people was losing ISK even if they were winning you increase active ISK generation (ISK payouts for winning), not pump passive ISK generation to insane levels. Passive ISK generation shouldn't cover your losses, winning should, so there would be no problem with removing passive ISK generation altogether or reduce it to a symbolic value of 2 million or less ISK per district per day.

3. If you're farming active ISK generation from attacking yourself from another district, the attacking district can always be attacked by anyone else. I have no idea why you're talking about a dummy corp attacking the attacking district, because if you're locking the attacking district up with a clone pack you just threw the profit you wanted to make completely out of the window.

4. Removing passive ISK generation would not remove all incentives to have districts. You would want to have districts to be able to attack others without the use of clone packs. The incentive in PC is about getting districts to be able to attack and make ISK from winning those matches.

5. I don't want CCP to allocate resources to try and improve PC. That would be entirely pointless. Let them work on other aspects that sorely needs the work, and give PC these few bandaids to keep it running. Removing ISK generation and fixing the refunding exploit would do exactly that.

Edit: Not to mention that redesigns of PC would take a while to be implemented, meanwhile PC corps are making billions of ISK EVERY day with NO risk. Removing ISK generation and fixing the refunding exploit would put a stop to that right now.

Edit2: Passive ISK generation should never even have been implemented, so I really have no idea why you're even defending it now. Passive ISK generation is insanely stupid and just needs to be deleted and forgotten about.

I have to quote myself from a post in oktober...:




That's pretty much it, remove PC assets out of Dust and into EVE.
Let us Mercs fight over those assets. The Eggsters can provide OB support, and all the hassle with districts is a thing of the past.

Most corps need to have EVE CEOs anyway, so no harm done if the whole district ownership goes to the Podsters.
They can build the warbarges, all the gear and so on, we just do the fighting.

And give them EVE dudes some real bonusses for owning districts, so far they don't give a flying Fxxx for districts...
The only guys givin' a crap eve side, are pirates who just fly along and pod you for sitting on a friggin district sattelite that has a shoot me sign on it...

Cheers


ps. and by the way, the time until you have managed to implement a meaningful PC 2.0 is best used giving us PVE. That would be a chance for new players to get used to the game and generate isk without being slaughtered by Proto Squads...

If they can be swayed by money, how can you know that they can't be swayed by the mere suggestion of more money?

This is New Eden after all, it isn't like betrayal is some unheard of practice.

If you have any creative solutions (as in within current rule sets) the CPM still have an open ear.

CPM knows this has been (and for a long while knew) a problem and are trying to work with CCP and the community on a favorable solution.

They are more worried and debating on what amount of man hours they are going to invest into this immediately.

CCP Has been working on PC 2.0 Since Uprising 1.4(September)

By the name 2.0 a lot of people have been speculating that it is to come with the DUST 2.0 Expansion what ever they deem to name it (Probably won't be Uprising)

I Really do hope they take their time and make sure it's finely polished this time. The Under Delivery of the Planetary Conquest Mechanic in DUST 514 is largely what killed the player counts from Beta to Uprising launch. Most aspiring Corporations and gaming groups where very interested but it was one debacle after another.

So right now they are debating whether to just hotfix PC and give it some simplistic fix and what should it be and who to take off another project to do it.... Or whether to do a partial implementation of PC upgrades...


Or whether to just say screw it and wait... (depends on if they can hotfix it... or forced to do it in the 1.8 patch)


Decisions Decisions...

This is the type of logic that leads to CCP making mistake after mistake. You CAN NOT leave a broken mechanic in a game for an extended period of time. It alienates your player base leading to a lack of confidence in CCP and frustration in the user experience. Turning off a no show clone pack refunds is such a simple bandaid to implement that it's illogical they have not done it. Reducing the amount of ISK generated is another simple configuration change they have previously hot fixed. Not acknowledging these issues in a timely mater and resolving them is an enormous failing on CCPs part. The same can be said of their stance on OP weapons and vehicles. Letting us get frustrated day after day while we wait months for a full solution is ridiculous. There is a time and a place for a quick change and CCPs inability to recognize this is their greatest failing IMO.

Let us all hope that one day they learn from their repeated failings on this type of issue.

The only issue right now with PC is the locking. Once this is fixed I see no problem.

If you honestly have a problem with corps farming ISK then make a PC team and do something about it. The point is, getting established in PC is very hard and 90% of the people who complain in this thread neither have the ability or dedication to thrive in Molden Heath.

We earned ISK unlike players who run BPO's and farm pubs with no risk

This is the type of logic that leads to CCP making mistake after mistake. You CAN NOT leave a broken mechanic in a game for an extended period of time. It alienates your player base leading to a lack of confidence in CCP and frustration in the user experience. Turning off a no show clone pack refunds is such a simple bandaid to implement that it's illogical they have not done it. Reducing the amount of ISK generated is another simple configuration change they have previously hot fixed. Not acknowledging these issues in a timely mater and resolving them is an enormous failing on CCPs part. The same can be said of their stance on OP weapons and vehicles. Letting us get frustrated day after day while we wait months for a full solution is ridiculous. There is a time and a place for a quick change and CCPs inability to recognize this is their greatest failing IMO.

Let us all hope that one day they learn from their repeated failings on this type of issue.

You cant because all the districts are locked

Moron

You cant because all the districts are locked

Moron

LOL u guys are pissed about this ? What about the ppl that bought the bundle packs that were labeled for 1 aur . They got a ton of proto gear and loads of boosters . I know a guy that has over a million proto suits and 20,000 active boosters. I haven't seen **** about how ccp will fix that . In fact anyone that post about it gets takin down .

They removed it Herman, and that guy now has all those boosters activated so he's set for the next 1500 years.

Brosef, I've been doing PC for months now - I know how much I make when the other team no-shows with a clone pack. You still get paid a hefty amount. And the whole bit about attacking the attacking district with a dummy corp is really very simple when you're still making money from the clones you sent to the defending district in the first place. You increase the payout from the win and you're just refunding them the money anyway because you -already- get plenty of ISK from a no-show on a clone pack as it is.

Removing passive ISK Generation would be a bad idea. It's nice when you have people to attack and when people are attacking you but a lot of good it's going to do you when you don't, you'll just have this block in space with your name on it being worthless. It's basically forcing corporations and alliances to fight unnecessarily, there's no reason to do it other than "for the **** of it", that doesn't make any sense at all and there is no system in Eve Online or Dust 514 that goes off of that system.

Passive ISK Generation isn't "insanely stupid", it's actually rather smart considering that you don't want them to spend extra time on PC. It gives corporations a -reason- to do PC and a reason to have districts while we wait for a way to make ISK with work involved (PvE in Null-sec Sovereignty being a primary example). Band-aids need to be applied, sure, but the band-aid your suggesting just turns PC into pub-matches where you have to start your own battles and wait a day or two before they happen.

"Edit2: Passive ISK generation should never even have been implemented, so I really have no idea why you're even defending it now."

^ This is personal incredulity.

LOL u guys are pissed about this ? What about the ppl that bought the bundle packs that were labeled for 1 aur . They got a ton of proto gear and loads of boosters . I know a guy that has over a million proto suits and 20,000 active boosters. I haven't seen **** about how ccp will fix that . In fact anyone that post about it gets takin down .

What some consider simple fix must always end up being checked by Sony for Quality Assurance. They have just started to enhance their work processes to accomodate MMO's, trust me I am certain they wish things would go quicker for fixes. There is only a certain amount of data that they can hot fix without coming to meddle with client data stored on the PS3 and that triggers an automatic QA on sony's part. There are other factors than simply CCP's willingness to go quicker, so maybe you should send Sony some letters so they let developpers do their things on their platform. But all in all sony is way slacker than Microsoft.

First they hot fixed ISK generation and rewards for PC previously and stated they were going to change it further but never followed through. Hence it's rather simple to infer they can easily adjust these in a hot fix.

Second, you have zero clue what your talking about and generic statements like this are inane. District locking and refunding clone packs has been an ongoing issue for months and months and months. To say they could not have resolved such a simple issue due to sony when they have done so many other things is quite simply stupid.

The issue here is not work involved but prioritization and recognizing that the status quo of leaving it broken is unacceptable.

Unless they wanted to just print ISK for their buddies.