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Nocturnal Soul
Immortal Retribution
1622
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Posted - 2014.01.18 03:19:00 -
[1] - Quote
Here I'm going to make a list of all the possibilities of a new bonus.
Primary:
Increased ammo clip size.
5% to kin cat effectiveness.
2% to Scp rate of fire.
Secondary:
5% to stamina regain rate and max.
"The trick to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources..." Albert Einstein
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Bojo The Mighty
L.O.T.I.S.
2754
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Posted - 2014.01.18 03:21:00 -
[2] - Quote
1 is like meh
2 goes against nature
3 would honestly be ungodly OP
Just leave the current skill y'all be sprintin' for days
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Tectonic Fusion
977
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Posted - 2014.01.18 03:23:00 -
[3] - Quote
Bojo The Mighty wrote:1 is like meh
2 goes against nature
3 would honestly be ungodly OP
Just leave the current skill y'all be sprintin' for days
I agree, but number 3 is...well let's just say you might as well kill yourself.
Solo Player
Squad status: Locked
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Nocturnal Soul
Immortal Retribution
1622
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Posted - 2014.01.18 03:24:00 -
[4] - Quote
Bojo The Mighty wrote:1 is like meh
2 goes against nature
3 would honestly be ungodly OP
Just leave the current skill y'all be sprintin' for days
But its so lame it at least needs to be between an Adv and Com mod to even be worth something. But I'll still use it though because what ever happens to it I'll still love my baby.
"The trick to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources..." Albert Einstein
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Reav Hannari
Red Rock Outriders
2626
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Posted - 2014.01.18 03:29:00 -
[5] - Quote
Yeah, make it complex level at scout 5. There has to be something more interesting than stamina though.
// Venge Captain // Matari Logistics / Scout / Pilot // @ReesNoturana
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Bojo The Mighty
L.O.T.I.S.
2755
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Posted - 2014.01.18 03:30:00 -
[6] - Quote
Nocturnal Soul wrote:Bojo The Mighty wrote:1 is like meh
2 goes against nature
3 would honestly be ungodly OP
Just leave the current skill y'all be sprintin' for days But its so lame it at least needs to be between an Adv and Com mod to even be worth something. But I'll still use it though because what ever happens to it I'll still love my baby.
Like I told KING CHECKMATE
Consider the costs of the basic cardiac regulator. 5 PG. I mean the range amps cost 25 CPU at proto. But 5 PG is a ton for a basic module that also gives 2 bonuses in one module. Cardiac Regulators are Hoggish modules and if you make the skill bonus surpass ADV you are basically getting like what 10+ PG for free?
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Nocturnal Soul
Immortal Retribution
1622
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Posted - 2014.01.18 03:35:00 -
[7] - Quote
Bojo The Mighty wrote:Nocturnal Soul wrote:Bojo The Mighty wrote:1 is like meh
2 goes against nature
3 would honestly be ungodly OP
Just leave the current skill y'all be sprintin' for days But its so lame it at least needs to be between an Adv and Com mod to even be worth something. But I'll still use it though because what ever happens to it I'll still love my baby. Like I told KING CHECKMATE Consider the costs of the basic cardiac regulator. 5 PG. I mean the range amps cost 25 CPU at proto. But 5 PG is a ton for a basic module that also gives 2 bonuses in one module. Cardiac Regulators are Hoggish modules and if you make the skill bonus surpass ADV you are basically getting like what 10+ PG for free?
Then what other bonus do you suggest because right now running 1 sec longer while being slower than a min assault ain't pretty right now.
"The trick to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources..." Albert Einstein
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Bojo The Mighty
L.O.T.I.S.
2755
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Posted - 2014.01.18 03:39:00 -
[8] - Quote
Nocturnal Soul wrote:
Then what other bonus do you suggest because right now running 1 sec long while being slower than a min assault ain't pretty right now.
If I would come up with one
-10% laser weapon feedback damage
-5% Heat build Up
It would be a scout that does not lose a large portion of HP to overheat. ScR and Laser Rifle are very iffy scout weapons because they seize and inflict self-damage so give the amarr scout the ability to comfortably wield these very powerful weapons and you have one mean scout.
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John Demonsbane
Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics
League of Infamy
1614
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Posted - 2014.01.18 03:39:00 -
[9] - Quote
I'm gonna vote for some type of uplink bonus in every one of these threads eventually. Think I've missed one somewhere....
"The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu
Amarr victor!
Forum Warrior lv.1
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Scheneighnay McBob
Learning Coalition College
3605
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Posted - 2014.01.18 03:40:00 -
[10] - Quote
You have to realize that every race actually has their specific playstyle- that's alot of the fun of making racial themed alts/squads.
Amarr are really the slow-and-steady race which, when used correctly, makes a rock-solid frontline that may have trouble advancing.
With that, amarr scouts would focus on placing uplinks to help the frontliners move more efficiently.
They should probably have some bonus to using uplinks.
We used to have a time machine
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Reav Hannari
Red Rock Outriders
2626
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Posted - 2014.01.18 03:41:00 -
[11] - Quote
The Caldari and Gallente scouts are geared up to fight each other. The Minmatar will have evolved their scout to specifically counter the Amarr. What aspect of an Amarr scouts makes sense to be the opposite of the Minmatar?
// Venge Captain // Matari Logistics / Scout / Pilot // @ReesNoturana
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Vell0cet
SVER True Blood
Public Disorder.
800
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Posted - 2014.01.18 03:49:00 -
[12] - Quote
Make them sabotage specialists: 5%/level to stamina and 10%/level to vehicles damage on remote explosives/proxi mines.
Edit: uplinks should be a Logi bonus. It's stupid to have 2 types of suits with the same bonus.
Quick/Dirty Test Range Idea
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Reav Hannari
Red Rock Outriders
2626
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Posted - 2014.01.18 03:54:00 -
[13] - Quote
If the Matari scout is about covert, guerrilla operations maybe the Amarr should be overt, bringing the light of God to the unclean. Since their logistics will be specializing in uplinks maybe the scout should instead be a combat oriented scout specializing in scrambler tech.
Headshot bonus for assassination? Take the already deadly scrambler weapons and really amp up the single, aimed shot potential? This relates to the backstabbing nature of the Matari knifers.
// Venge Captain // Matari Logistics / Scout / Pilot // @ReesNoturana
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Reav Hannari
Red Rock Outriders
2626
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Posted - 2014.01.18 03:55:00 -
[14] - Quote
Vell0cet wrote:Make them sabotage specialists: 5%/level to stamina and 10%/level to vehicles damage on remote explosives/proxi mines.
Edit: uplinks should be a Logi bonus. It's stupid to have 2 types of suits with the same bonus.
Sabotage is the Minmatar domain.
// Venge Captain // Matari Logistics / Scout / Pilot // @ReesNoturana
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Bojo The Mighty
L.O.T.I.S.
2755
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Posted - 2014.01.18 03:55:00 -
[15] - Quote
Reav Hannari wrote:If the Matari scout is about covert, guerrilla operations maybe the Amarr should be overt, bringing the light of God to the unclean. Since their logistics will be specializing in uplinks maybe the scout should instead be a combat oriented scout specializing in scrambler tech.
Headshot bonus for assassination? Take the already deadly scrambler weapons and really amp up the single, aimed shot potential? This relates to the backstabbing nature of the Matari knifers.
Headshot damage multiplier would be interesting
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Reav Hannari
Red Rock Outriders
2626
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Posted - 2014.01.18 03:59:00 -
[16] - Quote
What is the current headshot bonus with scramblers?
// Venge Captain // Matari Logistics / Scout / Pilot // @ReesNoturana
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Vell0cet
SVER True Blood
Public Disorder.
800
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Posted - 2014.01.18 04:03:00 -
[17] - Quote
Reav Hannari wrote:Vell0cet wrote:Make them sabotage specialists: 5%/level to stamina and 10%/level to vehicles damage on remote explosives/proxi mines.
Edit: uplinks should be a Logi bonus. It's stupid to have 2 types of suits with the same bonus. Sabotage is the Minmatar domain.
So is hacking and assassination apparently. The Amarr scout needs some interesting role besides being able to run very slowly for a long timeGǪ
Quick/Dirty Test Range Idea
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Reav Hannari
Red Rock Outriders
2626
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Posted - 2014.01.18 04:06:00 -
[18] - Quote
Vell0cet wrote:Reav Hannari wrote:Vell0cet wrote:Make them sabotage specialists: 5%/level to stamina and 10%/level to vehicles damage on remote explosives/proxi mines.
Edit: uplinks should be a Logi bonus. It's stupid to have 2 types of suits with the same bonus. Sabotage is the Minmatar domain. So is hacking and assassination apparently. The Amarr scout needs some interesting role besides being able to run very slowly for a long timeGǪ
Here I am, trying to come up with something for my sworn enemy to be proud of.
// Venge Captain // Matari Logistics / Scout / Pilot // @ReesNoturana
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Fizzer94
L.O.T.I.S.
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
1367
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Posted - 2014.01.18 04:11:00 -
[19] - Quote
Scheneighnay McBob wrote:You have to realize that every race actually has their specific playstyle- that's alot of the fun of making racial themed alts/squads.
Amarr are really the slow-and-steady race which, when used correctly, makes a rock-solid frontline that may have trouble advancing.
With that, amarr scouts would focus on placing uplinks to help the frontliners move more efficiently.
They should probably have some bonus to using uplinks.
Okay, why don't we just remove Amarr Logis from the game then while we're at it...
Its not enough that we get a crappy racial bonus in 1.8, but now we should have to compete with the scouts for it?
Yours Truly,
Reginald Fizzer94 Delafontaine III, Esquire
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Vell0cet
SVER True Blood
Public Disorder.
800
|
Posted - 2014.01.18 04:19:00 -
[20] - Quote
Reav Hannari wrote:Vell0cet wrote:Reav Hannari wrote:Vell0cet wrote:Make them sabotage specialists: 5%/level to stamina and 10%/level to vehicles damage on remote explosives/proxi mines.
Edit: uplinks should be a Logi bonus. It's stupid to have 2 types of suits with the same bonus. Sabotage is the Minmatar domain. So is hacking and assassination apparently. The Amarr scout needs some interesting role besides being able to run very slowly for a long timeGǪ Here I am, trying to come up with something for my sworn enemy to be proud of.
Sabotage makes sense to me. It's in the "wheelhouse" of the scout, and since the minmatar already have great bonuses (and aren't using them), I'm sure we can bend the lore to make it viable. Headshot bonuses on scrambler pistols doesn't feel right. A Minja can run through a squad of people and knife them to pieces in a few short seconds, I really wouldn't expect anything remotely similar with head shots on the scrambler pistol. It's too similar to a very fragile assault suit.
Quick/Dirty Test Range Idea
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Reav Hannari
Red Rock Outriders
2627
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Posted - 2014.01.18 04:24:00 -
[21] - Quote
I think I gave my best idea. The Amarr are fairly one dimensional. Absorb damage and deal it. Their scouts could be hit men. Cloak up, aim and shoot in the head. Where the Minmatar have to fight dirty to throw off the yoke of their slave masters the Amarr simply execute those that refuse to convert in a very cold and calculated manner.
// Venge Captain // Matari Logistics / Scout / Pilot // @ReesNoturana
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Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
3193
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Posted - 2014.01.18 05:00:00 -
[22] - Quote
Bojo The Mighty wrote:Nocturnal Soul wrote:Bojo The Mighty wrote:1 is like meh
2 goes against nature
3 would honestly be ungodly OP
Just leave the current skill y'all be sprintin' for days But its so lame it at least needs to be between an Adv and Com mod to even be worth something. But I'll still use it though because what ever happens to it I'll still love my baby. Like I told KING CHECKMATE Consider the costs of the basic cardiac regulator. 5 PG. I mean the range amps cost 25 CPU at proto. But 5 PG is a ton for a basic module that also gives 2 bonuses in one module. Cardiac Regulators are Hoggish modules and if you make the skill bonus surpass ADV you are basically getting like what 10+ PG for free?
A basic cardio regulator is 5 cpu 4 pg (not 5 pg).
I'll assume you already know that the Minmatar module "value" far outstrips a basic cardio, even with just the hacking bonus. One complex codebreaker is 45 cpu 11 pg, if you add up sets of Complex damage mods (or the suit's extra 5% to hacking...)
Range Amps aren't the meat of the bonuses of the other scouts. In either case, 25% bonus to range is a STD range amp, 15 cpu free mod for both. The true value there is the free slot more likely than not, as that's not something people would fit.
25% Profile dampening is 33cpu for a complex module. 25% Profile precision doesn't exist in-game (complex is 20% for 26 cpu... a complex + basic (18 cpu, 10%) would be a bit closer).
The module total would look more like 48 cpu gallente (and two slots) and 50-59cpu for the caldari (and 2-3 slots because a complex precision is less than the bonus)
I'm not sure where you're getting the bit about the skill bonus to surpass ADV? At rank V, the Amarr Scout has LESS than a Basic Cardiac regulator. Max skill is not even getting you the equivalent of a single basic module. It's certainly not getting anything like over 10 pg "for free". You're not even getting the full value of a module that cost 4 pg.
On the subject of pg vs. cpu. It's already not an even field because the suits stats vary. A Gallente suit has the most PG, for example. Minmatar has the highest CPU, followed by Caldari. If you average the values of the suits, the ratio of pg to cpu is a little over 5. So each 1 pg is worth about 5 cpu. Given that, the Gallente bonus is about 9-10 pg. The Caldari is about 10-12pg. The Minmatar is basically another dropsuit.
The cost of the basic regulator is 5 pg if you add the 5 cpu to the 4 pg, or half the value of the next lowest bonus. That's ignoring the fact that the basic regulator would only take one slot, that the amarr bonus is LESS than a basic regulator, and that the other racial bonuses save more slots than the Amarr's does.
Join my cult.
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Bojo The Mighty
L.O.T.I.S.
2763
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Posted - 2014.01.18 05:07:00 -
[23] - Quote
Zeylon Rho wrote:
A basic cardio regulator is 5 cpu 4 pg (not 5 pg).
I'll assume you already know that the Minmatar module "value" far outstrips a basic cardio, even with just the hacking bonus. One complex codebreaker is 45 cpu 11 pg, if you add up sets of Complex damage mods (or the suit's extra 5% to hacking...)
Range Amps aren't the meat of the bonuses of the other scouts. In either case, 25% bonus to range is a STD range amp, 15 cpu free mod for both. The true value there is the free slot more likely than not, as that's not something people would fit.
25% Profile dampening is 33cpu for a complex module. 25% Profile precision doesn't exist in-game (complex is 20% for 26 cpu... a complex + basic (18 cpu, 10%) would be a bit closer).
The module total would look more like 48 cpu gallente (and two slots) and 50-59cpu for the caldari (and 2-3 slots because a complex precision is less than the bonus)
I'm not sure where you're getting the bit about the skill bonus to surpass ADV? At rank V, the Amarr Scout has LESS than a Basic Cardiac regulator. Max skill is not even getting you the equivalent of a single basic module. It's certainly not getting anything like over 10 pg "for free". You're not even getting the full value of a module that cost 4 pg.
On the subject of pg vs. cpu. It's already not an even field because the suits stats vary. A Gallente suit has the most PG, for example. Minmatar has the highest CPU, followed by Caldari. If you average the values of the suits, the ratio of pg to cpu is a little over 5. So each 1 pg is worth about 5 cpu. Given that, the Gallente bonus is about 9-10 pg. The Caldari is about 10-12pg. The Minmatar is basically another dropsuit.
The cost of the basic regulator is 5 pg if you add the 5 cpu to the 4 pg, or half the value of the next lowest bonus. That's ignoring the fact that the basic regulator would only take one slot, that the amarr bonus is LESS than a basic regulator, and that the other racial bonuses save more slots than the Amarr's does.
The Minmatar bonus went right over my head and good point on the slots. However when something takes up 4 pg in one slot at basic it can put your PG at risk on a low PG suit because it's a good chunk of PG for just one slot, not as bad as kincats but it's up there especially militia because they give the same bonus %. Plus it (the amarr scout) innately has the highest Stamina stats so the bonus is even greater by numerical value.
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Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
3194
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Posted - 2014.01.18 05:28:00 -
[24] - Quote
Nocturnal Soul wrote:Here I'm going to make a list of all the possibilities of a new bonus.
Primary:
Increased ammo clip size.
5% to kin cat effectiveness.
2% to Scp rate of fire.
Secondary:
5% to stamina regain rate and max.
I like the stamina bonus, I just figure it should be equivalent to a complex module, like the other classes get. That's 20% max and recharge per level.
I like clip size. More-so I like Scrambler-clip size. A flat boost to ammo (+2 to Laser weapon clip-size or the like) would go aways to making things like the burst scrambler more useful. In the spirit of the Minmatar bonus being very very specific; it seems like a combat-focused Amarr bonus should be similar. Like +x clip size to Scrambler Pistols, Scram weapons (the rifles don't really need it honestly), etc. I say Scrams because it's a racial weapon mostly. I have concerns that most straight damage bonuses (on any suit) can be pretty unbalancing. Another option is a slight range boost.
Rate of fire is sketchy. For most laser weapons isn't helpful at all (part of the assault complaints). The semi-auto weapons already fire about as fast as you can tap the trigger (and overheat too). The laser wouldn't see any change because it's constant. It only really helps the Assault Scrambler, which is an odd niche to boost for the Scout. Heat build or feedback damage related bonuses aren't great for similar reasons as the Scout isn't the best laser user (makes a squishy's suit location obvious), and your're back to a bonus for a single weapon (semi scram) at that point.
Kinetic cat effectiveness (or bonus to suit sprint speed) would both be ok. A 1% sprint speed per level bonus sort of bit would be equivalent to the bonus you get from the Biotics skill itself (but without the stamina mods). 2% sprint speed gets questionable because a Complex Kinetic cat is only a 12% bonus (since the range is 5-12), and 10% is pretty high considering. Kinetic cat effectiveness is a more limited buff because it would require slotting a module (modules that have pretty steep fitting reqs even at base).
On the note of fitting, you could have useful bonuses in that respect. An Amarr logi might be reasonably concerned that a scout bonus to links would make their Droplink bonuses less useful. However, if the only bonus a scout gets is to fitting the links specifically, than the Logi-links bonuses would still make them superior. Similarly, compensating for the slower speed of the suit is something of a concern, since the Amarr Scout is slower than an Minmatar Assault (but also squishier than the weakest assault suit). So, it's possible a fitting bonus to kinetic catalyzers could be useful.
So, summing up:
20% Max Stamina and recharge rate per level (Complex Cardio at V)
AND
+1/2 clip size for Scramblers per level
or
+2 meters to the effective and falloff range of Scrambler Weapons (perhaps just pistols) per level
or
1% Sprint Speed per level
or
6% reduction to CPU/PG requirements of Droplinks per level
or
8-10% reduction to CPU/PG requirements of Kinetic Catalyzers per level
or
5% bonus to Kin-cat effectiveness per level
Those all seem like pretty good options to me. Mind you, I'm looking more at parity with the Minmatar Scout than the other two here, because their secondary bonuses could also use a boost in light of the relative strength of the Minny's.
Join my cult.
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Iskandar Zul Karnain
Hellstorm Inc
League of Infamy
2526
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Posted - 2014.01.18 05:49:00 -
[25] - Quote
Scrap the marathon bonus and pick something interesting like a cloaking or damage bonus.
Headshot bonus and laser weapon heat build up please.
HellsGÇáorm, Director
Bringing the Wrath of God down on the Matari since YC114
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Ludvig Enraga
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
830
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Posted - 2014.01.18 05:56:00 -
[26] - Quote
Reav Hannari wrote:Yeah, make it complex level at scout 5. There has to be something more interesting than stamina though.
Stamina is very improtant. Same as scan range. If you got that built in it actually makes you very versatile untying your hands to use priceless low modules to w/e you need or want.
Now compare to Min scout: +5 hacking - lol wut? half the maps have nothing to hack.
Oh, sht! I just learned you can make a signature! Thanks, CCP! Forums are getting better!
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Oswald Rehnquist
1116
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Posted - 2014.01.18 06:31:00 -
[27] - Quote
Why not a % bonus to the hp of ferroscale armor?
Below 28 dB
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Lavirac JR
DUST University
Ivy League
163
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Posted - 2014.01.18 11:09:00 -
[28] - Quote
Here is my thought, Minmatar Scouts get close and personal with blades, well Amarr scouts should be the opposite, they should be distance fighters.
Back in the day the sharp shooting skill boosted suit's range with every weapon, that was OP. Now this specific suit, which would not be over powered with a range bonus, should get +5% maximum effective/optimal range for laser weapons per level. The suit is weak enough HP wise to make it not want to be in the front lines, but the range and scoutness of the suit helps it pick off enemies on the periphery of the battle.
I think that bonus would give Amarr scout a decent role without taking on the role of another suit.
A would be logi looking for heavies in all the wrong places.
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True Adamance
Kameira Lodge
Amarr Empire
5875
|
Posted - 2014.01.18 11:14:00 -
[29] - Quote
Bojo The Mighty wrote:1 is like meh
2 goes against nature
3 would honestly be ungodly OP
Just leave the current skill y'all be sprintin' for days
Doesn't matter. If other suits are getting the equivalent of a complex module as their bonus the Amarr deserve the equivalent of one as well. Either that or the other racial groups do not deserve that complex bonus and should have their bonuses brought in line with that of the Amarr scouts.
As far as I am aware the Minmatar get a 25% faster hack, and 25% Nova Knife Damage bonus.
The equivalent of a basic Cardiac Regulator does not come close to being balanced against that.
Or perhaps we should consider the Gallente suit, which to my knowledge gets a slightly better than complex Profile Dampener, and an ADV Armour repper.
Again a basic Cardiac regulator is not equivalent. Even with our higher base stamina and HP values.
"My Faith in you is absolute; my sword is Yours, My God, and Your will guides me now and for all eternity."
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Ryder Azorria
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
829
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Posted - 2014.01.18 11:18:00 -
[30] - Quote
Hmmm... How about keep (or increase) the existing bonus while adding a bonus that reduces the speed penalty from armour plates. |
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Stefan Stahl
Seituoda Taskforce Command
Caldari State
384
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Posted - 2014.01.18 13:38:00 -
[31] - Quote
Suggestions I'd like:
- ~10-15 hp armor bonus per level.
OR:
- 5% bonus to the efficacy of armor plates per level.
OR:
- A bonus to cloaking. Can't say in which way because I have no idea how cloaking is going to work.
Alternatively:
- current stamina bonus AND 5% bonus to passive scan range per level (notice the lack of profile dampening or precision enhancement)
My vision for the Amarr Scout is that it should be the one suit best suited for a straight up fight. It doesn't have the ehp a medium suit has, but instead relies on either cloaking or passive scanning (at a low precision) to get the drop on whatever it hunts. Once the opening blow has been dealt with a charged Scrambler Rifle shot and the victim is at half health the Amarr Scout has the ehp to see the fight through to the end. If the victim had had a good scanner it would've seen the threat coming.
Example fitting for an Amarr Scout: (slot layout of the proto suit, adapt as necessary)
High slots:
- 2x damage mod
Low slots:
- 2x ferroscale plates
- 2x scan range extender
Light weapon:
- Scrambler Rifle
Eq:
- Any mixture or drop uplink, cloaking device, nanohives or remote explosives |
Galvan Nized
Deep Space Republic
532
|
Posted - 2014.01.18 14:27:00 -
[32] - Quote
I think the best answer is taking the old Caldari or Gallente bonus to cloaking and adding that to the Amarr scout. Maybe 25% faster recharge or 25% less shimmer when moving. Make the Amarr the ultimate cloaker.
Perhaps a bonus to uplink scan profile...make them the best stealth uplink layers. Maybe like 50% reduction in profile for uplinks (unsure on numbers as I don't know what the profile actual is). Everyone gripes about uplinks not being covert enough, this would solve that problem. Amarr scout would be a great behind the lines covert operator. |
Vell0cet
SVER True Blood
Public Disorder.
801
|
Posted - 2014.01.18 14:38:00 -
[33] - Quote
Stefan Stahl wrote:Suggestions I'd like:
- ~10-15 hp armor bonus per level.
OR:
- 5% bonus to the efficacy of armor plates per level.
OR:
- A bonus to cloaking. Can't say in which way because I have no idea how cloaking is going to work.
Alternatively:
- current stamina bonus AND 5% bonus to passive scan range per level (notice the lack of profile dampening or precision enhancement)
My vision for the Amarr Scout is that it should be the one suit best suited for a straight up fight. It doesn't have the ehp a medium suit has, but instead relies on either cloaking or passive scanning (at a low precision) to get the drop on whatever it hunts. Once the opening blow has been dealt with a charged Scrambler Rifle shot and the victim is at half health the Amarr Scout has the ehp to see the fight through to the end. If the victim had had a good scanner it would've seen the threat coming.
Example fitting for an Amarr Scout: (slot layout of the proto suit, adapt as necessary)
High slots:
- 2x damage mod
Low slots:
- 2x ferroscale plates
- 2x scan range extender
Light weapon:
- Scrambler Rifle
Eq:
- Any mixture or drop uplink, cloaking device, nanohives or remote explosives
Most of these feel too much like an assault suit. All scout suits should be pretty fragile. Scrambler rifle bonuses feel wrong too, again, that's more of an assault/commando weapon.
If people don't like the sabotage direction (and it seems most don't) I would have to go with either a cloaking bonus, or scrambler pistol clip size, plus a modest stamina buff.
Quick/Dirty Test Range Idea
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Scheneighnay McBob
Learning Coalition College
3610
|
Posted - 2014.01.18 15:03:00 -
[34] - Quote
Fizzer94 wrote:Scheneighnay McBob wrote:You have to realize that every race actually has their specific playstyle- that's alot of the fun of making racial themed alts/squads.
Amarr are really the slow-and-steady race which, when used correctly, makes a rock-solid frontline that may have trouble advancing.
With that, amarr scouts would focus on placing uplinks to help the frontliners move more efficiently.
They should probably have some bonus to using uplinks. Okay, why don't we just remove Amarr Logis from the game then while we're at it... Its not enough that we get a crappy racial bonus in 1.8, but now we should have to compete with the scouts for it?
Logis aren't particularly good at sneaking around, last time I checked.
Keep the forward uplinks to the scouts, while you either spam or play medic.
We used to have a time machine
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Mortedeamor
1235
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Posted - 2014.01.18 15:09:00 -
[35] - Quote
2% scp fire rate
3% scp reload speed
5% stamina recovery and total
jihhhaders = av lvl 0
swarm master = av lvl 99+
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Monty Mole Clone
Shiv M
128
|
Posted - 2014.01.18 15:39:00 -
[36] - Quote
the guy who authored the amarr scout bonus must have been in a hurry to get out on the lash or something:) coz its just dull, as in not very enticing. keep it or change it dont really care for these unamaginative suit bonus anymore. |
Cody Sietz
Bullet Cluster
Legacy Rising
2015
|
Posted - 2014.01.18 15:41:00 -
[37] - Quote
5 percent to kind cats would be crazy.
"I do agree with you there though. shudders"
-Arkena Wyrnspire
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low genius
The Sound Of Freedom
Renegade Alliance
1103
|
Posted - 2014.01.18 15:41:00 -
[38] - Quote
I kind of like the bonuses they've got listed now. |
Reav Hannari
Red Rock Outriders
2632
|
Posted - 2014.01.18 15:45:00 -
[39] - Quote
Oswald Rehnquist wrote:Why not a % bonus to the hp of ferroscale armor?
I like this idea. Another plate related one would be to reduce the speed penalty of plates. "Through the use of advanced servos and load balancing the Amarr Scout, at skill level 5, can fit complex plates with no loss of mobility." The Ferroscale plates idea would probably be easier to justify and to provide a bonus for though.
// Venge Captain // Matari Logistics / Scout / Pilot // @ReesNoturana
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Quiet Li
Nos Nothi
1
|
Posted - 2014.01.18 15:58:00 -
[40] - Quote
I wouldn't be too quick to toss out the green pill bonus altogether, guys ... I think it could be bumped up a bit, but those green pills, while not "sexy" ... are awesome for a scout. I've made more escapes due to green pills than reds by a mile, and I've also caught prey more often thanks to greens than reds...
As for a secondary bonus...
I'm not sure that bumping the RoF on a ScP is worth much, honestly. Those things already fire plenty fast enough, and deal a ton of damage if you hit your shots. I've never been killed because the RoF was too low ... more likely, I just missed a shot I needed to land and it cost me. It also sounds more like a bonus for assaults than scouts to me.
A secondary bonus to uplinks sounds like a good idea, personally. The one that fits best with a true scout role, I'd say.
Kind of interested in seeing a bonus to the headshot multilpier for A Scouts, too, for that matter...
It'd reward skill, for one, and something about an A Scout carrying a scrambler pistol seems righteous to me.  |
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Cyrius Li-Moody
The New Age Outlaws
WINMATAR.
3002
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Posted - 2014.01.18 16:10:00 -
[41] - Quote
Remember guys absolutely NO cloak bonuses. This community argued and fought about scouts having no specific cloak bonuses. I still standby the current stamina/regen bonus being useful for a scout though not entirely interesting.
The bonus to ferroscale it's a actually a pretty cool idea. I like the idea of a fitting cost reduction to laser weaponry. The SCR and pistol have pretty high fitting costs. A reduction to both of these will free up more resources for extra tank or extra gank. Heat damage reduction is also very good considering the very low HP of scouts. Perhaps even a reduction to seize time. Heat reduction bonuses with the way SCR is now throws the weapon out of balance and makes it far too good at close ranges when it is a mid-long distance weapon.
A resistance skill would be very useful for a scout and would make sense for amarr who are meant to soak up more damage.
Youtuber. Your friendly neighborhood whiskey-fueled merc.
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Stefan Stahl
Seituoda Taskforce Command
Caldari State
384
|
Posted - 2014.01.18 16:18:00 -
[42] - Quote
Cyrius Li-Moody wrote:Remember guys absolutely NO cloak bonuses. One noisy part of this community argued and fought about scouts having no specific cloak bonuses. Corrected. You're welcome.
Not that I demand a cloak bonus, but it shouldn't be off the table. One could argue that the Amarr suit would profit the most from cloaking due to it's lack of mobility. It's lack of scan precision, scan range and scan profile reduction also call for an alternative means of stealth than scanning. |
John Demonsbane
Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics
League of Infamy
1619
|
Posted - 2014.01.18 18:05:00 -
[43] - Quote
I'm coming around to the idea of armor-based bonuses. I like the idea of reducing the speed penalty from regular plates. That or add a sprint speed bonus so you get a "free" kin cat AND cardiac reg.
"The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu
Amarr victor!
Forum Warrior lv.1
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Vell0cet
SVER True Blood
Public Disorder.
801
|
Posted - 2014.01.18 18:06:00 -
[44] - Quote
Stefan Stahl wrote:Cyrius Li-Moody wrote:Remember guys absolutely NO cloak bonuses. One noisy part of this community argued and fought about scouts having no specific cloak bonuses. Corrected. You're welcome. Not that I demand a cloak bonus, but it shouldn't be off the table. One could argue that the Amarr suit would profit the most from cloaking due to it's lack of mobility. It's lack of scan precision, scan range and scan profile reduction also call for an alternative means of stealth than scanning.
If there was going to be a suit with a cloak bonus, this one makes the most sense.
Quick/Dirty Test Range Idea
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Cooper Eudaemon
DUST University
Ivy League
95
|
Posted - 2014.01.18 18:20:00 -
[45] - Quote
Adding my vote to a cloaking bonus.
To me, it makes great sense as a counter to the Minja's Nova Knives.
It also makes sense that if your scout is designed to run slower and longer, without a boosted ability to scan or hide from scanners, that you would really want to be able to get the most out of a cloaking module.
I need a break from Dust! I'll just go hop on the forums...
I need a break from the forums! I'll just go hop on Dust...
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Viktor Hadah Jr
Critical-Impact
1970
|
Posted - 2014.01.18 18:22:00 -
[46] - Quote
4% to kin cat effectiveness plus
5% laser weaponry heat build up.
Selling Templar BPO 300Mil
Earn 50Mil+ ISK in Dust
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Monty Mole Clone
Shiv M
128
|
Posted - 2014.01.18 18:33:00 -
[47] - Quote
Cyrius Li-Moody wrote:Remember guys absolutely NO cloak bonuses. This community argued and fought about scouts having no specific cloak bonuses. I still standby the current stamina/regen bonus being useful for a scout though not entirely interesting.
The bonus to ferroscale it's a actually a pretty cool idea. I like the idea of a fitting cost reduction to laser weaponry. The SCR and pistol have pretty high fitting costs. A reduction to both of these will free up more resources for extra tank or extra gank. Heat damage reduction is also very good considering the very low HP of scouts. Perhaps even a reduction to seize time. Heat reduction bonuses with the way SCR is now throws the weapon out of balance and makes it far too good at close ranges when it is a mid-long distance weapon.
A resistance skill would be very useful for a scout and would make sense for amarr who are meant to soak up more damage.
i would much rather have my scout specialize in cloaking over stamina, i thought the basic frames where for people like you who want to fit suits how they wanted?
and why arnt all scouts getting a bonus to how the cloak works? make specialist suits special ffs ccp and not these boring generic abortions we will be getting |
Darken-Soul
Tal-Romon Legion
Amarr Empire
3
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Posted - 2014.01.18 18:45:00 -
[48] - Quote
Give the Amarr scout a bonus to ScP mag, bringing it up to 17 for proto. I get chills thinking about it. |
Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
3206
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Posted - 2014.01.18 18:54:00 -
[49] - Quote
I think any bonus to tanking (ferroscale, etc.) would be misguided. Scouts aren't supposed to be tanking roles, and you're starting in the hole somewhat as it stands since the closest assault (Minmatar) is slightly faster than you, has more slots, and more hp.
The stamina bonus, while meager, at least works on a similar theory of utility/mobility. Something related to putting people down while not necessarily tanking (scrambler or weapon bonuses), sprint/kincat, etc. bonuses make more sense than just trying to make the Amarr Scout into a crappier assault suit.
Join my cult.
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Reav Hannari
Red Rock Outriders
2640
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Posted - 2014.01.18 19:00:00 -
[50] - Quote
Zeylon Rho wrote:I think any bonus to tanking (ferroscale, etc.) would be misguided. Scouts aren't supposed to be tanking roles, and you're starting in the hole somewhat as it stands since the closest assault (Minmatar) is slightly faster than you, has more slots, and more hp.
The stamina bonus, while meager, at least works on a similar theory of utility/mobility. Something related to putting people down while not necessarily tanking (scrambler or weapon bonuses), sprint/kincat, etc. bonuses make more sense than just trying to make the Amarr Scout into a crappier assault suit.
They haven't published the new, proposed assault stats yet. I wouldn't be surprised if they changed the speeds on them.
// Venge Captain // Matari Logistics / Scout / Pilot // @ReesNoturana
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Mordecai Sanguine
What The French
304
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Posted - 2014.01.18 19:12:00 -
[51] - Quote
Nocturnal Soul wrote:Here I'm going to make a list of all the possibilities of a new bonus.
Primary:
Increased ammo clip size.
5% to kin cat effectiveness.
2% to Scp rate of fire.
Secondary:
5% to stamina regain rate and max.
No. Useless and is more a "minmatarr" skill.
No. Amarr is supposed to be the slowest. Not just base.
No. Useless this is sharpshooter gun not a spam gun.
Primary : (equivalent of a complex regulator)
20% Max stamina per level.
10% regain rate per level.
Secondary : 10% more damage to backstab per level. (attacks from behind.)
Amarr philosophy is simple.
They faith in tanking.
They faith in battle.
This suits will be perfet to eliminate fugitive targets.
Attack from behind to deadly ambush.
"You can turn once. Not twice"
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
12310
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Posted - 2014.01.18 19:20:00 -
[52] - Quote
I was hoping for something more interesting :(
And if you been paying attention the bonuses only effect the suit itself not its use with modules.
5% Stamina max, regen and 5% reduction in stamina consumption
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist
\\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
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Mordecai Sanguine
What The French
304
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Posted - 2014.01.18 19:22:00 -
[53] - Quote
Fizzer94 wrote:Scheneighnay McBob wrote:You have to realize that every race actually has their specific playstyle- that's alot of the fun of making racial themed alts/squads.
Amarr are really the slow-and-steady race which, when used correctly, makes a rock-solid frontline that may have trouble advancing.
With that, amarr scouts would focus on placing uplinks to help the frontliners move more efficiently.
They should probably have some bonus to using uplinks. Okay, why don't we just remove Amarr Logis from the game then while we're at it... Its not enough that we get a crappy racial bonus in 1.8, but now we should have to compete with the scouts for it?
The Uplinks bonus should be for scouts not Logi.
What Amarr bonus should be :
20% Max stmaina per level.
10% regain rate per level.
And the drop uplinks bonus.
Amarr Logi has always supposed to be a "Combat Engineer" the "Support fire" the "frontline Logi"providing support with his equipements AND with some support fire from himself.
Just set uplinks IS NOT a role for Logi but for scout.
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Mordecai Sanguine
What The French
304
|
Posted - 2014.01.18 19:24:00 -
[54] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:I was hoping for something more interesting :(
And if you been paying attention the bonuses only effect the suit itself not its use with modules.
5% Stamina max, regen and 5% reduction in stamina consumption
So what ?
This is less than a Basic Module that takes 5CPU and 4 PG. |
John Demonsbane
Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics
League of Infamy
1619
|
Posted - 2014.01.18 19:25:00 -
[55] - Quote
Reav Hannari wrote:Zeylon Rho wrote:I think any bonus to tanking (ferroscale, etc.) would be misguided. Scouts aren't supposed to be tanking roles, and you're starting in the hole somewhat as it stands since the closest assault (Minmatar) is slightly faster than you, has more slots, and more hp.
The stamina bonus, while meager, at least works on a similar theory of utility/mobility. Something related to putting people down while not necessarily tanking (scrambler or weapon bonuses), sprint/kincat, etc. bonuses make more sense than just trying to make the Amarr Scout into a crappier assault suit. They haven't published the new, proposed assault stats yet. I wouldn't be surprised if they changed the speeds on them.
You both make excellent points. We don't know what the assaults will be so perhaps the Amarr scout will be faster than the Minnie assault. That's also somewhat of an apples to oranges comparison anyway.
The point about making it tanks detracting from its role also make sense, but if you say, make the bonus to ferroscale plates instead you keep the racial focus intact at the same time you keep the speed aspect.
Finally, whoever asked why the scouts can't have bonuses for cloaks, the fear is that they make become OP. Thing is though, they still get a "bonus" to cloaks, since, as Remnant said, the fitting costs are apparently going to be absurd on any suit that's not a scout, so the bonus is basically that they can run cloaks to begin with.
"The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu
Amarr victor!
Forum Warrior lv.1
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Monty Mole Clone
Shiv M
128
|
Posted - 2014.01.18 19:30:00 -
[56] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:I was hoping for something more interesting :(
And if you been paying attention the bonuses only effect the suit itself not its use with modules.
5% Stamina max, regen and 5% reduction in stamina consumption
so it gives zero boost to mods?
who thinks of this trash |
John Demonsbane
Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics
League of Infamy
1619
|
Posted - 2014.01.18 19:35:00 -
[57] - Quote
Mordecai Sanguine wrote:Fizzer94 wrote:Scheneighnay McBob wrote:You have to realize that every race actually has their specific playstyle- that's alot of the fun of making racial themed alts/squads.
Amarr are really the slow-and-steady race which, when used correctly, makes a rock-solid frontline that may have trouble advancing.
With that, amarr scouts would focus on placing uplinks to help the frontliners move more efficiently.
They should probably have some bonus to using uplinks. Okay, why don't we just remove Amarr Logis from the game then while we're at it... Its not enough that we get a crappy racial bonus in 1.8, but now we should have to compete with the scouts for it? The Uplinks bonus should be for scouts not Logi. What Amarr bonus should be : 20% Max stmaina per level. 10% regain rate per level. And the drop uplinks bonus. Amarr Logi has always supposed to be a "Combat Engineer" the "Support fire" the "frontline Logi"providing support with his equipements AND with some support fire from himself. Just set uplinks IS NOT a role for Logi but for scout.
I could get behind that but then what bonus do you give the Amarr logi? I plan on using both suits and am big on uplinks like an Amarr should, so shifting the bonus makes sense, but we then need to give the logi a new bonus. Do you propose a more offensive-minded bonus? If so, it would have to be carefully chosen to avoid any further complaints about killer bees. Maybe something about clip size so our nanohives can be reserved for others? Or perhaps a better idea would be a defensive bonus to plates of some kind. (Or the inherent armor rep might be nice....,)
"The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu
Amarr victor!
Forum Warrior lv.1
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Marad''er
Ancient Exiles.
Renegade Alliance
402
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Posted - 2014.01.18 19:36:00 -
[58] - Quote
I believe the best way to do this is
Bonus 1:
20% Stamina Max per lv
10% Stamina recovery per lv
Bonus 2:
10% clip size to Scrambler pistol
Or
3% dmg bonus to scrambler pistol per lv
I'm afraid however this would make the scrambler pistol a tad OP, but... Lol
GôÉGô¥GôÿGô£Gôö > GôÉGô¢Gô¢
Gÿà¿When will dust get better?Gÿà
Forum Warrior LV. 4 | pâÅpéñpâápü»tºüpü«µëôµÆâpéÆF¦ápüúpüªpüäpéï | PSN: I-NINJA-ALL-DAY
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Ryder Azorria
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
834
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Posted - 2014.01.18 19:37:00 -
[59] - Quote
Monty Mole Clone wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:I was hoping for something more interesting :(
And if you been paying attention the bonuses only effect the suit itself not its use with modules.
5% Stamina max, regen and 5% reduction in stamina consumption so it gives zero boost to mods? who thinks of this trash
Well it kinda does, increasing the base stat results in a numerically larger boost from percentage based mods. |
Mordecai Sanguine
What The French
306
|
Posted - 2014.01.18 19:47:00 -
[60] - Quote
John Demonsbane wrote:Mordecai Sanguine wrote:Fizzer94 wrote:Scheneighnay McBob wrote:You have to realize that every race actually has their specific playstyle- that's alot of the fun of making racial themed alts/squads.
Amarr are really the slow-and-steady race which, when used correctly, makes a rock-solid frontline that may have trouble advancing.
With that, amarr scouts would focus on placing uplinks to help the frontliners move more efficiently.
They should probably have some bonus to using uplinks. Okay, why don't we just remove Amarr Logis from the game then while we're at it... Its not enough that we get a crappy racial bonus in 1.8, but now we should have to compete with the scouts for it? The Uplinks bonus should be for scouts not Logi. What Amarr bonus should be : 20% Max stmaina per level. 10% regain rate per level. And the drop uplinks bonus. Amarr Logi has always supposed to be a "Combat Engineer" the "Support fire" the "frontline Logi"providing support with his equipements AND with some support fire from himself. Just set uplinks IS NOT a role for Logi but for scout. I could get behind that but then what bonus do you give the Amarr logi? I plan on using both suits and am big on uplinks like an Amarr should, so shifting the bonus makes sense, but we then need to give the logi a new bonus. Do you propose a more offensive-minded bonus? If so, it would have to be carefully chosen to avoid any further complaints about killer bees. Maybe something about clip size so our nanohives can be reserved for others? Or perhaps a better idea would be a defensive bonus to plates of some kind. (Or the inherent armor rep might be nice....,)
The armor repper bonus was good. BUT because there was these 5 base hp/s.
And now the auto-hp regen is deserved to gallente not Amarr.
Amarr is supposed to armor tank.
Not really "offensive" minded. This is not the purpose of a Logi.
Maybe some bonus on Armor Plates. |
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Oswald Rehnquist
1122
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Posted - 2014.01.18 19:58:00 -
[61] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:I was hoping for something more interesting :(
And if you been paying attention the bonuses only effect the suit itself not its use with modules.
5% Stamina max, regen and 5% reduction in stamina consumption
the stamina boost is a good idea, equipment running is big for real scouts (by real I mean people who understand scouts don't play like assaults), and is the current role I take, though I think it should be 10% per level, before we knew about scouts getting a second equipment slot we also always thought the amarr would get +1 equipment slot over the other scouts to reinforced its equipment running role.
in regards to not benefiting modules, the nova knife damage boost is technically for something that fills in a slot, but the real deal is the hacking bonus which takes up its higher stat of the suit, so I think people are arguing for one stat booster and one limited utility boon / slot boost
Below 28 dB
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Monty Mole Clone
Shiv M
128
|
Posted - 2014.01.18 20:05:00 -
[62] - Quote
Ryder Azorria wrote:Monty Mole Clone wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:I was hoping for something more interesting :(
And if you been paying attention the bonuses only effect the suit itself not its use with modules.
5% Stamina max, regen and 5% reduction in stamina consumption so it gives zero boost to mods? who thinks of this trash Well it kinda does, increasing the base stat results in a numerically larger boost from percentage based mods.
wether it kinda does or doesnt is irrelevant, still a poor bonus that will probably stay. cheers cpm |
OZAROW
Dem Durrty Boyz
Renegade Alliance
1260
|
Posted - 2014.01.18 21:37:00 -
[63] - Quote
Nocturnal Soul wrote:Here I'm going to make a list of all the possibilities of a new bonus.
Primary:
Increased ammo clip size.
5% to kin cat effectiveness.
2% to Scp rate of fire.
Secondary:
5% to stamina regain rate and max.
I do agree that with all the other suits they basically get a complex free mod because other complex mods = 25%
But a complex cardiac is a 100% mod and since their base stamina is already higher than other scouts, the bonus now is basically = to a basic mod but more like a enhanced cuz of the base of 225 stamina which gives it 281 stamina after bonus. If it was a10% bonus per level then you have 337 stamina as the final base which is really enticing .
An maybe give them the old minmatar assaults bonus of clip size per level for side arms but that's some serious discussion , although I think it's fair it would make that scout evenly powerful.
But speed tanked dual scp scouts might get pistols FTOM status, and no scout wants a pistol nerf.
SUPER NOVA KNIFE SAIYAN 4
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Mauren NOON
The Exemplars
Top Men.
196
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Posted - 2014.01.18 22:01:00 -
[64] - Quote
Do a complex cardiac module bonus and +2% SCR charged shot damage per level. Perfect bonus for slow combat scout |
Summ Dude
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
105
|
Posted - 2014.01.18 22:56:00 -
[65] - Quote
Out of all of these suggestions, my favorite so far is definitely increasing the scrambler pistol headshot bonus damage, while keeping the current stamina bonuses of course. It seems like it would stack up/match the Minnie Scout's NK bonus very well. As both will increase the already rather high alpha damage of weapons that are virtually all alpha damage, but both are very nichey and require skill to use (need to get in close to use NK, need to land a headshot with the scrambler pistol). And this would seem to follow the same logic as the Caldari and Gallente Scouts' bonuses matching up against each other.
Not just a laymen, but the laymen.
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KING CHECKMATE
Ametat Security
Amarr Empire
3752
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Posted - 2014.01.18 23:59:00 -
[66] - Quote
Nocturnal Soul wrote:Here I'm going to make a list of all the possibilities of a new bonus.
Primary:
Increased ammo clip size.
5% to kin cat effectiveness.
2% to Scp rate of fire.
Secondary:
5% to stamina regain rate and max.
Primary: +5% Profile Dampening per level
Secondary: +10% to stamina regain rate and max
Primary:-5% cool-down on cloaking devices
Secondary: +5% to stamina regain rate and max
Primary:+5% MOVEMENT SPEED per level
Secondary: +10% to stamina regain rate and max
Primary:+5% Automatic Sidearm Clip size per level / +1 Clip Size to Explosive and Semi-auto Sidearms
Secondary: +5% to stamina regain rate and max
Primary: +2% To Biotics Modules effectiveness per level
Secondary: +5% to stamina regain rate and max
Primary:-5% to CPU/PG cost of Biotics Modules per level
Secondary: +10% to stamina regain rate and max
Primary & Secondary: +20% to stamina regain rate and max per level
I'll post more later...
GIVE ME A RESPEC CCP.
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Aero Yassavi
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
5386
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Posted - 2014.01.19 00:37:00 -
[67] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:I was hoping for something more interesting :(
And if you been paying attention the bonuses only effect the suit itself not its use with modules.
5% Stamina max, regen and 5% reduction in stamina consumption
But IWS, so does every other scout. All the other scouts bonuses apply directly to the suit itself and are the equivalent of having a built in complex module plus more, while the Amarr bonus is the equivalent of having less than the value of basic cardiac regulator built in.
ARC Commander
CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
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True Adamance
Kameira Lodge
Amarr Empire
5885
|
Posted - 2014.01.19 00:44:00 -
[68] - Quote
Aero Yassavi wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:I was hoping for something more interesting :(
And if you been paying attention the bonuses only effect the suit itself not its use with modules.
5% Stamina max, regen and 5% reduction in stamina consumption But IWS, so does every other scout. All the other scouts bonuses apply directly to the suit itself and are the equivalent of having a built in complex module plus more, while the Amarr bonus is the equivalent of having less than the value of basic cardiac regulator built in.
Frankly speaking, and I know how poor this argument in New Eden is....
Its not potent enough as compared to the other dropsuits bonuses.
"My Faith in you is absolute; my sword is Yours, My God, and Your will guides me now and for all eternity."
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Nocturnal Soul
Immortal Retribution
1639
|
Posted - 2014.01.19 00:45:00 -
[69] - Quote
^ this... this is the solution.
"The trick to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources..." Albert Einstein
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Galvan Nized
Deep Space Republic
533
|
Posted - 2014.01.19 00:51:00 -
[70] - Quote
Summ Dude wrote:Out of all of these suggestions, my favorite so far is definitely increasing the scrambler pistol headshot bonus damage, while keeping the current stamina bonuses of course. It seems like it would stack up/match the Minnie Scout's NK bonus very well. As both will increase the already rather high alpha damage of weapons that are virtually all alpha damage, but both are very nichey and require skill to use (need to get in close to use NK, need to land a headshot with the scrambler pistol). And this would seem to follow the same logic as the Caldari and Gallente Scouts' bonuses matching up against each other.
Headshot bonus isn't bad, just what would it be? ScPs already have 4.5 bonus. The way the math works out even if it is 2x bonus you are now getting 9x bonus for a headshot...everything is a factor nothing is added. Maybe just 50% (1.5x)? That's still 6.75x for a headshot.
Also you don't HAVE to land headshots to dominate with the ScP. The TT-3 and up Rof and high damage can easily kill mercs, if you have enough ammo and are not dealing with an armor tanker. Headshots are just a great bonus. |
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Aero Yassavi
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
5388
|
Posted - 2014.01.19 01:13:00 -
[71] - Quote
Galvan Nized wrote:Summ Dude wrote:Out of all of these suggestions, my favorite so far is definitely increasing the scrambler pistol headshot bonus damage, while keeping the current stamina bonuses of course. It seems like it would stack up/match the Minnie Scout's NK bonus very well. As both will increase the already rather high alpha damage of weapons that are virtually all alpha damage, but both are very nichey and require skill to use (need to get in close to use NK, need to land a headshot with the scrambler pistol). And this would seem to follow the same logic as the Caldari and Gallente Scouts' bonuses matching up against each other. Headshot bonus isn't bad, just what would it be? ScPs already have 4.5 bonus. The way the math works out even if it is 2x bonus you are now getting 9x bonus for a headshot...everything is a factor nothing is added. Maybe just 50% (1.5x)? That's still 6.75x for a headshot. Also you don't HAVE to land headshots to dominate with the ScP. The TT-3 and up Rof and high damage can easily kill mercs, if you have enough ammo and are not dealing with an armor tanker. Headshots are just a great bonus.
If it was a scrambler pistol headshot bonus, it'd probably be 5% per level, so 1.25 which makes headshots do 5.625 rather than the normal 4.5. That'd be an acceptable bonus. Making it a straight up damage bonus to all scrambler pistol shots would be OP, and this way it would encourage more marksmanship out of scout who'd probably need to be better about conserving ammo anyways.
ARC Commander
CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
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True Adamance
Kameira Lodge
Amarr Empire
5885
|
Posted - 2014.01.19 01:18:00 -
[72] - Quote
Aero Yassavi wrote:Galvan Nized wrote:Summ Dude wrote:Out of all of these suggestions, my favorite so far is definitely increasing the scrambler pistol headshot bonus damage, while keeping the current stamina bonuses of course. It seems like it would stack up/match the Minnie Scout's NK bonus very well. As both will increase the already rather high alpha damage of weapons that are virtually all alpha damage, but both are very nichey and require skill to use (need to get in close to use NK, need to land a headshot with the scrambler pistol). And this would seem to follow the same logic as the Caldari and Gallente Scouts' bonuses matching up against each other. Headshot bonus isn't bad, just what would it be? ScPs already have 4.5 bonus. The way the math works out even if it is 2x bonus you are now getting 9x bonus for a headshot...everything is a factor nothing is added. Maybe just 50% (1.5x)? That's still 6.75x for a headshot. Also you don't HAVE to land headshots to dominate with the ScP. The TT-3 and up Rof and high damage can easily kill mercs, if you have enough ammo and are not dealing with an armor tanker. Headshots are just a great bonus. If it was a scrambler pistol headshot bonus, it'd probably be 5% per level, so 1.25 which makes headshots do 5.625 rather than the normal 4.5. That'd be an acceptable bonus. Making it a straight up damage bonus to all scrambler pistol shots would be OP, and this way it would encourage more marksmanship out of scout who'd probably need to be better about conserving ammo anyways.
While fair..... I find the bonus redundant. We already have a 450% bonus to head shot damage, for a rather specific act as a natural part of the weapon.
I don't really think more damage is required from the Scarmbler Pistol Headshot bonus.
"My Faith in you is absolute; my sword is Yours, My God, and Your will guides me now and for all eternity."
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Aero Yassavi
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
5388
|
Posted - 2014.01.19 01:23:00 -
[73] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:
While fair..... I find the bonus redundant. We already have a 450% bonus to head shot damage, for a rather specific act as a natural part of the weapon.
I don't really think more damage is required from the Scarmbler Pistol Headshot bonus.
Agreed True. And can you imagine how that'd get abused with people firing while cloaked?
The best bonus would be something to do with scouting. Perhaps more sprint speed per level.
ARC Commander
CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
TRA1LBLAZERS
67
|
Posted - 2014.01.19 01:43:00 -
[74] - Quote
An idea to solve the current inter scout disparity would be to modify the current base stats of the scouts, and then implement a better bonus for the amarr scout. First off, buff the base move/sprint speed for all scout suits buy 3%, except for the min which would get 5%, to enhance its role as the fastest scout on the field. Then, give all scouts an inherent stamina bonus of 5% to maximum/recharge rate, except for the amarr scout which would get a 50% stamina bonus to max and recharge rate. This way, the amarr scout is now faster than a ninny assault, and has by far the most stamina of any unit in the game. Then, give the amarr scout a very specialized bonus, I was thinking +10% to scrambler pistol magazine capacity per level, this way equally affecting breach, assault and bust variants. It would be very similar to the minmitar nova knife bonus, probably even better, due to how hard nova knives are to use. Also, a correction to the argument that the nova knife damage is equal to 3 complex modules needs an update. Heres my reasoning-
10% damage per damage module+stacking penalty=3 damage modules gives roughly 25% damage
Now lets see how many sidearms there are-FP, ScrP, NK's, SMG, (soon to be magsec, bolt, and ion pistol)=4+3 future sidearms.
25/4=a little more than 6, therefore the nova knife damage bonus, universally, is really only equal to a little more than one enhanced damage mod (5%), as it only affects nova knives, which are arguably the most specialized weapon in the game.
please comment your ideas on my proposed system of buffs for the amarr scout 
Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives.
https://dust514.com/recruit/k3vMnb/
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
TRA1LBLAZERS
67
|
Posted - 2014.01.19 01:45:00 -
[75] - Quote
Aero Yassavi wrote:True Adamance wrote:
While fair..... I find the bonus redundant. We already have a 450% bonus to head shot damage, for a rather specific act as a natural part of the weapon.
I don't really think more damage is required from the Scarmbler Pistol Headshot bonus.
Agreed True. And can you imagine how that'd get abused with people firing while cloaked? The best bonus would be something to do with scouting. Perhaps more sprint speed per level.
I really don't like the idea of more sprint speed per level, as that would nullify the role of the minmitar scout as being the go to unit for maximum speed. I think a bonus to scrambler pistol mag cap would be good, in addition to an inherent 25-50% bonus to base stamina/stamina regen.
Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives.
https://dust514.com/recruit/k3vMnb/
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Aero Yassavi
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
5390
|
Posted - 2014.01.19 01:50:00 -
[76] - Quote
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:Aero Yassavi wrote:True Adamance wrote:
While fair..... I find the bonus redundant. We already have a 450% bonus to head shot damage, for a rather specific act as a natural part of the weapon.
I don't really think more damage is required from the Scarmbler Pistol Headshot bonus.
Agreed True. And can you imagine how that'd get abused with people firing while cloaked? The best bonus would be something to do with scouting. Perhaps more sprint speed per level. I really don't like the idea of more sprint speed per level, as that would nullify the role of the minmitar scout as being the go to unit for maximum speed. I think a bonus to scrambler pistol mag cap would be good, in addition to an inherent 25-50% bonus to base stamina/stamina regen.
Well I said sprint speed, not movement speed. Minmatar would still be better movers, as well as better hackers and slasher, but I understand what you're saying.
Scrambler pistol mag cap would not be a good bonus in my opinion because that is already the Scrambler Pistol Operations bonus.
ARC Commander
CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
TRA1LBLAZERS
67
|
Posted - 2014.01.19 01:57:00 -
[77] - Quote
Aero Yassavi wrote:Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:Aero Yassavi wrote:True Adamance wrote:
While fair..... I find the bonus redundant. We already have a 450% bonus to head shot damage, for a rather specific act as a natural part of the weapon.
I don't really think more damage is required from the Scarmbler Pistol Headshot bonus.
Agreed True. And can you imagine how that'd get abused with people firing while cloaked? The best bonus would be something to do with scouting. Perhaps more sprint speed per level. I really don't like the idea of more sprint speed per level, as that would nullify the role of the minmitar scout as being the go to unit for maximum speed. I think a bonus to scrambler pistol mag cap would be good, in addition to an inherent 25-50% bonus to base stamina/stamina regen. Well I said sprint speed, not movement speed. Minmatar would still be better movers, as well as better hackers and slasher, but I understand what you're saying. Scrambler pistol mag cap would not be a good bonus in my opinion because that is already the Scrambler Pistol Operations bonus.
Do you agree with my previous post about boosting inherent scout bionics, and then switching the amarr bonus? I think that would really even out the inter-scout playing field more than anything else. but just for reference, with maxed out ScrP operation, there is only an 11 bullet mag (on a non-variant type), with maxed out amarr soil, we would see this go up to 16 or 17 bullets, which is enough to easily kill any suit with no head shots, and with head shots, preform even better. But i feel if the min scout gets gibber by having a nova knife bonus, which is THE most specialized bonus in the game, its opposing race, the amarr, should get an equally specialized bonus.
Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives.
https://dust514.com/recruit/k3vMnb/
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Oswald Rehnquist
1124
|
Posted - 2014.01.19 02:18:00 -
[78] - Quote
I'll just post my new favorite idea
one free cardio regulator (20% per level), and more inherent cpu/pg on the suit that what is currently listed as run proto equipment without hindering fits.
Below 28 dB
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
TRA1LBLAZERS
69
|
Posted - 2014.01.19 02:28:00 -
[79] - Quote
Update to my current idea for scram pistol bonus-
introduce a cloaking bonus to uplinks, so that at proto level, uplinks are invisible to all except a proto focused active scanner, making people have to manually hunt for them, allowing the ammar scout to discreetly open pathways to assaulting positions, all the while getting a huge wp bonus for doing so. One of the main roles of the scout is to run uplinks, and the ammar would fill this roll better than any class in the game with its increased stamina, and solacing bonus to uplinks.
Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives.
https://dust514.com/recruit/k3vMnb/
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Reav Hannari
Red Rock Outriders
2647
|
Posted - 2014.01.19 02:58:00 -
[80] - Quote
There are some interesting ideas here but I think the core concept that must be decided is what is the role for this suit. We know that Gal and Cal are going head to head in stealth warfare. Should the Amarr compete against the Minmatar guerrillas or will they do their own thing? What roles are open to scouts of any race?
Recon? Seems like the Gal and Cal roles.
Pathfinder? Seems like a good idea but overlaps with Amarr logistics. Maybe that suit is in the wrong role and the uplink focus should switch to this one. This has been mentioned a few times and I do agree. What would the focus of the logistics be if the scout took over uplinks?
Assassin? The role of the Minmatar but head to head stealth slayers does appeal to me as I've already suggested. I just don't know how to provide an appropriate bonus.
Guerrilla fighter? Not their style.
Sniper? The Amarr don't have a native sniper weapon yet. Maybe provide something generic for long range engagements.
Game design is hard.
// Venge Captain // Matari Logistics / Scout / Pilot // @ReesNoturana
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
TRA1LBLAZERS
74
|
Posted - 2014.01.19 03:01:00 -
[81] - Quote
Reav Hannari wrote:There are some interesting ideas here but I think the core concept that must be decided is what is the role for this suit. We know that Gal and Cal are going head to head in stealth warfare. Should the Amarr compete against the Minmatar guerrillas or will they do their own thing? What roles are open to scouts of any race?
Recon? Seems like the Gal and Cal roles.
Pathfinder? Seems like a good idea but overlaps with Amarr logistics. Maybe that suit is in the wrong role and the uplink focus should switch to this one. This has been mentioned a few times and I do agree. What would the focus of the logistics be if the scout took over uplinks?
Assassin? The role of the Minmatar but head to head stealth slayers does appeal to me as I've already suggested. I just don't know how to provide an appropriate bonus.
Guerrilla fighter? Not their style.
Sniper? The Amarr don't have a native sniper weapon yet. Maybe provide something generic for long range engagements.
Game design is hard.
The idea with the uplinks is that they don't replace the logi role, but instead are a different type of uplink placer, as they open a gateway for discreet assault on a position, without the enemy knowing
Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives.
https://dust514.com/recruit/k3vMnb/
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Summ Dude
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
108
|
Posted - 2014.01.19 03:07:00 -
[82] - Quote
What if in addition to giving them a bonus to ScP headshot damage, the standard Scp headshot damage was nerfed a bit; maybe back to like 400%. Or would this draw too much ire?
Not just a laymen, but the laymen.
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Reav Hannari
Red Rock Outriders
2648
|
Posted - 2014.01.19 03:08:00 -
[83] - Quote
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:The idea with the uplinks is that they don't replace the logi role, but instead are a different type of uplink placer, as they open a gateway for discreet assault on a position, without the enemy knowing
Seems legit to me. Maybe combine it with another bonus such as an improved stamina than currently suggested.
// Venge Captain // Matari Logistics / Scout / Pilot // @ReesNoturana
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
TRA1LBLAZERS
74
|
Posted - 2014.01.19 03:09:00 -
[84] - Quote
Reav Hannari wrote:Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:The idea with the uplinks is that they don't replace the logi role, but instead are a different type of uplink placer, as they open a gateway for discreet assault on a position, without the enemy knowing Seems legit to me. Maybe combine it with another bonus such as an improved stamina than currently suggested.
I made another post in here on pg. 4 that was about boosting inherent scout biotics. Ill edit it into my reply for easy reading
EDIT: here it is
An idea to solve the current inter scout disparity would be to modify the current base stats of the scouts, and then implement a better bonus for the amarr scout. First off, buff the base move/sprint speed for all scout suits buy 3%, except for the min which would get 5%, to enhance its role as the fastest scout on the field. Then, give all scouts an inherent stamina bonus of 5% to maximum/recharge rate, except for the amarr scout which would get a 50% stamina bonus to max and recharge rate. This way, the amarr scout is now faster than a ninny assault, and has by far the most stamina of any unit in the game.
Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives.
https://dust514.com/recruit/k3vMnb/
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John Demonsbane
Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics
League of Infamy
1620
|
Posted - 2014.01.19 03:27:00 -
[85] - Quote
Reav Hannari wrote:There are some interesting ideas here but I think the core concept that must be decided is what is the role for this suit. We know that Gal and Cal are going head to head in stealth warfare. Should the Amarr compete against the Minmatar guerrillas or will they do their own thing? What roles are open to scouts of any race?
Recon? Seems like the Gal and Cal roles.
Pathfinder? Seems like a good idea but overlaps with Amarr logistics. Maybe that suit is in the wrong role and the uplink focus should switch to this one. This has been mentioned a few times and I do agree. What would the focus of the logistics be if the scout took over uplinks?
Assassin? The role of the Minmatar but head to head stealth slayers does appeal to me as I've already suggested. I just don't know how to provide an appropriate bonus.
Guerrilla fighter? Not their style.
Sniper? The Amarr don't have a native sniper weapon yet. Maybe provide something generic for long range engagements.
Game design is hard.
Very true. Instead of just spitballing random bonuses that sound good, perhaps a defined role would help focus the discussion. So is this suit:
A light assault suit?
A flanker/infiltrator suit?
Something else?
Personally I plan to use it as a flanker/infiltrator suit, a better version of the fossil BPO (which is the old type 2) I currently use. With that bias in mind, I like the idea of a bonus to uplinks of some kind, or improving the speed bonus somehow, like instead of a basic cardiac reg you get a complex or better at proto, or maybe an enhanced cardiac and an enhanced kin cat, perhaps.
On the other hand, if you picture it as a light assault, which might not be totally out of line with Dust Amarr battle philosophy if you think about it, then perhaps a bonus to the ScP or, using your example of a "long range weapon" bonus, perhaps this should be a suit designed for the "new and improved" LR. Give it some type of bonus to LR heat buildup or even range.
"The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu
Amarr victor!
Forum Warrior lv.1
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Nocturnal Soul
Immortal Retribution
1640
|
Posted - 2014.01.19 03:32:00 -
[86] - Quote
I plan on using it mainly as a light assault. For that is how all Amarr suits are like.
"The trick to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources..." Albert Einstein
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Summ Dude
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
109
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Posted - 2014.01.19 03:35:00 -
[87] - Quote
John Demonsbane wrote:
Very true. Instead of just spitballing random bonuses that sound good, perhaps a defined role would help focus the discussion. So is this suit:
A light assault suit?
A flanker/infiltrator suit?
Something else?
Personally I plan to use it as a flanker/infiltrator suit, a better version of the fossil BPO (which is the old type 2) I currently use. With that bias in mind, I like the idea of a bonus to uplinks of some kind, or improving the speed bonus somehow, like instead of a basic cardiac reg you get a complex or better at proto, or maybe an enhanced cardiac and an enhanced kin cat, perhaps.
On the other hand, if you picture it as a light assault, which might not be totally out of line with Dust Amarr battle philosophy if you think about it, then perhaps a bonus to the ScP or, using your example of a "long range weapon" bonus, perhaps this should be a suit designed for the "new and improved" LR. Give it some type of bonus to LR heat buildup or even range.
Yea I've always thought of the Amarr combat philosophy as "stay in lines and keep moving forward slowly but surely", so a light assault doesn't seem too far off. Also, wasn't there supposed to maybe be a LR hotfix before 1.8?
Not just a laymen, but the laymen.
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Reav Hannari
Red Rock Outriders
2648
|
Posted - 2014.01.19 03:46:00 -
[88] - Quote
Summ Dude wrote:John Demonsbane wrote:
Very true. Instead of just spitballing random bonuses that sound good, perhaps a defined role would help focus the discussion. So is this suit:
A light assault suit?
A flanker/infiltrator suit?
Something else?
Personally I plan to use it as a flanker/infiltrator suit, a better version of the fossil BPO (which is the old type 2) I currently use. With that bias in mind, I like the idea of a bonus to uplinks of some kind, or improving the speed bonus somehow, like instead of a basic cardiac reg you get a complex or better at proto, or maybe an enhanced cardiac and an enhanced kin cat, perhaps.
On the other hand, if you picture it as a light assault, which might not be totally out of line with Dust Amarr battle philosophy if you think about it, then perhaps a bonus to the ScP or, using your example of a "long range weapon" bonus, perhaps this should be a suit designed for the "new and improved" LR. Give it some type of bonus to LR heat buildup or even range.
Yea I've always thought of the Amarr combat philosophy as "stay in lines and keep moving forward slowly but surely", so a light assault doesn't seem too far off. Also, wasn't there supposed to maybe be a LR hotfix before 1.8?
The scouts become the flanking escort (aka outriders) for the for the assaults and heavies picking off those that attempt to flee using their range optimization subsystems? When they encounter resistance then the main force moves into deal with it.
"I'm not running you down, slave. I'll just burn you from here."
Escort role. Interesting idea.
// Venge Captain // Matari Logistics / Scout / Pilot // @ReesNoturana
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Summ Dude
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
110
|
Posted - 2014.01.19 03:51:00 -
[89] - Quote
Reav Hannari wrote:
The scouts become the flanking escort (aka outriders) for the for the assaults and heavies picking off those that attempt to flee using their range optimization subsystems? When they encounter resistance then the main force moves into deal with it.
"I'm not running you down, slave. I'll just burn you from here."
Escort role. Interesting idea.
Now that's something I can definitely get behind.
Edit: So now what kind of bonus would help cement the role of picking of the stragglers?
Not just a laymen, but the laymen.
|
Reav Hannari
Red Rock Outriders
2649
|
Posted - 2014.01.19 04:00:00 -
[90] - Quote
Summ Dude wrote:Reav Hannari wrote:
The scouts become the flanking escort (aka outriders) for the for the assaults and heavies picking off those that attempt to flee using their range optimization subsystems? When they encounter resistance then the main force moves into deal with it.
"I'm not running you down, slave. I'll just burn you from here."
Escort role. Interesting idea.
Now that's something I can definitely get behind. Edit: So now what kind of bonus would help cement the role of picking of the stragglers?
Increase range so they don't have to run them down? I'm not sure that is in the current game code and we don't want it delayed.
I also like the suggestions from earlier for either increasing the efficacy of the ferroscale plates or removing the speed penalty of normal plates. The Amarr are all about armor buffer. The benefit of their scout is retaining movement speed without losing that ability. Since the scout should be well ahead or to the flank of logistics you don't want them to have to return for repairs or waiting in cover for slow armor repair to do its thing.
// Venge Captain // Matari Logistics / Scout / Pilot // @ReesNoturana
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Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
3214
|
Posted - 2014.01.19 04:02:00 -
[91] - Quote
Summ Dude wrote:Reav Hannari wrote:
The scouts become the flanking escort (aka outriders) for the for the assaults and heavies picking off those that attempt to flee using their range optimization subsystems? When they encounter resistance then the main force moves into deal with it.
"I'm not running you down, slave. I'll just burn you from here."
Escort role. Interesting idea.
Now that's something I can definitely get behind. Edit: So now what kind of bonus would help cement the role of picking of the stragglers?
Well, stamina/sprint to run after them. A range bonus would make it easier to hit them. Though a range bonus to scrambler rifles might be overpowered. A range bonus to scrambler pistols... possibly too niche? I'd like it, but I don't know if everyone likes the pistol.
I agree that the headshot bonus would be too much considering how high it is already. I prefer the expanded clip, as it makes weapons like the burst more useful, but is just generally useful too.
Join my cult.
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Summ Dude
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
111
|
Posted - 2014.01.19 04:04:00 -
[92] - Quote
Reav Hannari wrote:Summ Dude wrote:Reav Hannari wrote:
The scouts become the flanking escort (aka outriders) for the for the assaults and heavies picking off those that attempt to flee using their range optimization subsystems? When they encounter resistance then the main force moves into deal with it.
"I'm not running you down, slave. I'll just burn you from here."
Escort role. Interesting idea.
Now that's something I can definitely get behind. Edit: So now what kind of bonus would help cement the role of picking of the stragglers? Increase range so they don't have to run them down? I'm not sure that is in the current game code and we don't want it delayed. I also like the suggestions from earlier for either increasing the efficacy of the ferroscale plates or removing the speed penalty of normal plates. The Amarr are all about armor buffer. The benefit of their scout is retaining movement speed without losing that ability. Since the scout should be well ahead or to the flank of logistics you don't want them to have to return for repairs or waiting in cover for slow armor repair to do its thing.
So keep the current stamina bonuses, and then a reduction to armor plate movement penalty, enough so that at level 5 they experience none even from complex? This could really make them the ultimate distance runners, while still keeping that Amarr armor resiliency. And it definitely works with them being on the outside flanks of lines, chasing down any would-be runners. This might just be my new favorite.
Not just a laymen, but the laymen.
|
Reav Hannari
Red Rock Outriders
2649
|
Posted - 2014.01.19 04:07:00 -
[93] - Quote
Zeylon Rho wrote:Summ Dude wrote:Reav Hannari wrote:
The scouts become the flanking escort (aka outriders) for the for the assaults and heavies picking off those that attempt to flee using their range optimization subsystems? When they encounter resistance then the main force moves into deal with it.
"I'm not running you down, slave. I'll just burn you from here."
Escort role. Interesting idea.
Now that's something I can definitely get behind. Edit: So now what kind of bonus would help cement the role of picking of the stragglers? Well, stamina/sprint to run after them. A range bonus would make it easier to hit them. Though a range bonus to scrambler rifles might be overpowered. A range bonus to scrambler pistols... possibly too niche? I'd like it, but I don't know if everyone likes the pistol. I agree that the headshot bonus would be too much considering how high it is already. I prefer the expanded clip, as it makes weapons like the burst more useful, but is just generally useful too.
Back to stamina. That's funny. However, It would work if increased to match the complex green bottle at scout 5.
With the current headshot bonus you have to land at least two hits to match a set of fully charged Nova Knives. I agree that is not that difficult and a bonus may be too much. I had forgotten he scrambler headshot bonus was 450%.
I think my preference is still towards altering armor modules to be more appropriate for scouts to stick to their doctrine. It is the most durable scout with the currently proposed stats and letting it keep its lead after all of them start adding modules is not a bad thing. It would help with the light assault role that some want too.
// Venge Captain // Matari Logistics / Scout / Pilot // @ReesNoturana
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
TRA1LBLAZERS
77
|
Posted - 2014.01.19 04:10:00 -
[94] - Quote
Summ Dude wrote:Reav Hannari wrote:Summ Dude wrote:Reav Hannari wrote:
The scouts become the flanking escort (aka outriders) for the for the assaults and heavies picking off those that attempt to flee using their range optimization subsystems? When they encounter resistance then the main force moves into deal with it.
"I'm not running you down, slave. I'll just burn you from here."
Escort role. Interesting idea.
Now that's something I can definitely get behind. Edit: So now what kind of bonus would help cement the role of picking of the stragglers? Increase range so they don't have to run them down? I'm not sure that is in the current game code and we don't want it delayed. I also like the suggestions from earlier for either increasing the efficacy of the ferroscale plates or removing the speed penalty of normal plates. The Amarr are all about armor buffer. The benefit of their scout is retaining movement speed without losing that ability. Since the scout should be well ahead or to the flank of logistics you don't want them to have to return for repairs or waiting in cover for slow armor repair to do its thing. So keep the current stamina bonuses, and then a reduction to armor plate movement penalty, enough so that at level 5 they experience none even from complex? This could really make them the ultimate distance runners, while still keeping that Amarr armor resiliency. And it definitely works with them being on the outside flanks of lines, chasing down any would-be runners. This might just be my new favorite.
I also think there should be some penalty, like 2% at proto level. But thats just because they provide so much health with no real consequences
Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives.
https://dust514.com/recruit/k3vMnb/
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Reav Hannari
Red Rock Outriders
2649
|
Posted - 2014.01.19 04:26:00 -
[95] - Quote
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:I also think there should be some penalty, like 2% at proto level. But thats just because they provide so much health with no real consequences
Fitting should naturally limit that but maybe limit the bonus to Ferroscale and Reactive. Instead, it could be a fitting bonus so penalties are still present but they are easier to squeeze on to the scout frame, especially with the high fitting requirements of the Ferroscale and Reactive.
// Venge Captain // Matari Logistics / Scout / Pilot // @ReesNoturana
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Reav Hannari
Red Rock Outriders
2649
|
Posted - 2014.01.19 04:29:00 -
[96] - Quote
I'm trying to think of bonuses that can be added as an attribute in the database and doesn't require changing game code. It seems to expedite things dramatically. I'd have to dig through the SDE but I think a fitting bonus to all armor plates may be the easiest thing to do. Then increase the stamina bonus to something not sucky and you'll have the best defensive scout with the ability to run places, eventually.
// Venge Captain // Matari Logistics / Scout / Pilot // @ReesNoturana
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Summ Dude
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
111
|
Posted - 2014.01.19 04:29:00 -
[97] - Quote
Reav Hannari wrote:Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:I also think there should be some penalty, like 2% at proto level. But thats just because they provide so much health with no real consequences Fitting should naturally limit that but maybe limit the bonus to Ferroscale and Reactive. Instead, it could be a fitting bonus so penalties are still present but they are easier to squeeze on to the scout frame, especially with the high fitting requirements of the Ferroscale and Reactive.
I don't know, maybe it's just me, but I feel like two bonuses to fitting is kinda meh. But I could understand still having some armor plate speed penalty at level 5, if only on the complex plates.
Not just a laymen, but the laymen.
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Nocturnal Soul
Immortal Retribution
1640
|
Posted - 2014.01.19 05:03:00 -
[98] - Quote
Reav Hannari wrote:I'm trying to think of bonuses that can be added as an attribute in the database and doesn't require changing game code. It seems to expedite things dramatically. I'd have to dig through the SDE but I think a fitting bonus to all armor plates may be the easiest thing to do. Then increase the stamina bonus to something not sucky and you'll have the best defensive scout with the ability to run places, eventually.
I like you, you understand the Amarr.
"The trick to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources..." Albert Einstein
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Reav Hannari
Red Rock Outriders
2650
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Posted - 2014.01.19 05:10:00 -
[99] - Quote
Nocturnal Soul wrote:Reav Hannari wrote:I'm trying to think of bonuses that can be added as an attribute in the database and doesn't require changing game code. It seems to expedite things dramatically. I'd have to dig through the SDE but I think a fitting bonus to all armor plates may be the easiest thing to do. Then increase the stamina bonus to something not sucky and you'll have the best defensive scout with the ability to run places, eventually. I like you, you understand the Amarr.
Know thy enemy.
// Venge Captain // Matari Logistics / Scout / Pilot // @ReesNoturana
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Bojo The Mighty
L.O.T.I.S.
2787
|
Posted - 2014.01.19 05:25:00 -
[100] - Quote
What if the suit was just given a 1.2 Ferroscale multiplier
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Nocturnal Soul
Immortal Retribution
1640
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Posted - 2014.01.19 05:27:00 -
[101] - Quote
Bojo The Mighty wrote:What if the suit was just given a 1.2 Ferroscale multiplier
Care to elaborate on that
"The trick to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources..." Albert Einstein
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Bojo The Mighty
L.O.T.I.S.
2787
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Posted - 2014.01.19 05:29:00 -
[102] - Quote
Nocturnal Soul wrote:Bojo The Mighty wrote:What if the suit was just given a 1.2 Ferroscale multiplier Care to elaborate on that
Um well it multiplies the HP given by Ferroscale plates by 1.2 and it's built in to the suit rather than a skill
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Nocturnal Soul
Immortal Retribution
1640
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Posted - 2014.01.19 05:31:00 -
[103] - Quote
Bojo The Mighty wrote:Nocturnal Soul wrote:Bojo The Mighty wrote:What if the suit was just given a 1.2 Ferroscale multiplier Care to elaborate on that Um well it multiplies the HP given by Ferroscale plates by 1.2 and it's built in to the suit rather than a skill
I like it but if its not a skill/bonus then what's the point of it?
"The trick to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources..." Albert Einstein
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Bojo The Mighty
L.O.T.I.S.
2787
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Posted - 2014.01.19 05:34:00 -
[104] - Quote
Nocturnal Soul wrote:Bojo The Mighty wrote:
Um well it multiplies the HP given by Ferroscale plates by 1.2 and it's built in to the suit rather than a skill
I like it but if its not a skill/bonus then what's the point of it?
All scouts have a 1.1 hack multiplier - the point being letting all scouts hack faster regardless of level
The point would be to give a 20% bonus to Ferroscale plates regardless of level
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Nocturnal Soul
Immortal Retribution
1640
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Posted - 2014.01.19 05:48:00 -
[105] - Quote
Bojo The Mighty wrote:Nocturnal Soul wrote:Bojo The Mighty wrote:
Um well it multiplies the HP given by Ferroscale plates by 1.2 and it's built in to the suit rather than a skill
I like it but if its not a skill/bonus then what's the point of it? All scouts have a 1.1 hack multiplier - the point being letting all scouts hack faster regardless of level The point would be to give a 20% bonus to Ferroscale plates regardless of level
As much as I likethe idea its just this thread was made for ideas to give the Amarr scout a better bonus.
"The trick to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources..." Albert Einstein
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Vell0cet
SVER True Blood
Public Disorder.
806
|
Posted - 2014.01.19 16:45:00 -
[106] - Quote
Nocturnal Soul wrote:Reav Hannari wrote:I'm trying to think of bonuses that can be added as an attribute in the database and doesn't require changing game code. It seems to expedite things dramatically. I'd have to dig through the SDE but I think a fitting bonus to all armor plates may be the easiest thing to do. Then increase the stamina bonus to something not sucky and you'll have the best defensive scout with the ability to run places, eventually. I like you, you understand the Amarr.
You guys may understand the Amarr, but you seem to have no clue about what a scout is supposed to do. This is how CCP Remnant described the role:
CCP Remnant wrote:...To me, the Scout role has always been about creating a disruptive force on the battlefield. HeGÇÖs the guy that can cover enough ground quickly enough to get drop uplinks into the right places (that is, if everyone didnGÇÖt carry one, but more on that later), hack objectives back, disperse squad members (nothing makes people scatter faster than a KC-amped shotgunner) and generally make a nuisance of himself.
The Scout role will get very high PG/CPU bonuses to fitting cloak equipment, making it just about the only role that can feasibly fit a cloak field without having to sacrifice the rest of its fit. Individual race skill bonuses will create opportunities for cloaked scouts to scan further and longer than other dropsuits, to have less GÇ£shimmerGÇ¥ as they move, and have lower innate scan profiles so that they can be visually and electronically invisible. These should help create more useful assassins, intel gatherers, and saboteurs.
I didn't see anything in there about tanking lots of damage.
Quick/Dirty Test Range Idea
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Nocturnal Soul
Immortal Retribution
1648
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Posted - 2014.01.19 17:28:00 -
[107] - Quote
Vell0cet wrote:Nocturnal Soul wrote:Reav Hannari wrote:I'm trying to think of bonuses that can be added as an attribute in the database and doesn't require changing game code. It seems to expedite things dramatically. I'd have to dig through the SDE but I think a fitting bonus to all armor plates may be the easiest thing to do. Then increase the stamina bonus to something not sucky and you'll have the best defensive scout with the ability to run places, eventually. I like you, you understand the Amarr. You guys may understand the Amarr, but you seem to have no clue about what a scout is supposed to do. This is how CCP Remnant described the role: CCP Remnant wrote:...To me, the Scout role has always been about creating a disruptive force on the battlefield. HeGÇÖs the guy that can cover enough ground quickly enough to get drop uplinks into the right places (that is, if everyone didnGÇÖt carry one, but more on that later), hack objectives back, disperse squad members (nothing makes people scatter faster than a KC-amped shotgunner) and generally make a nuisance of himself.
The Scout role will get very high PG/CPU bonuses to fitting cloak equipment, making it just about the only role that can feasibly fit a cloak field without having to sacrifice the rest of its fit. Individual race skill bonuses will create opportunities for cloaked scouts to scan further and longer than other dropsuits, to have less GÇ£shimmerGÇ¥ as they move, and have lower innate scan profiles so that they can be visually and electronically invisible. These should help create more useful assassins, intel gatherers, and saboteurs. I didn't see anything in there about tanking lots of damage.
What you fail to see is that every amarr suit in the game has something to make it lean towards a more combative role on the field.
The logi gets a side-arm
The assaults heat reduction bonus
The heavy's two high slot that will most certainly be used for damage mods
It shouldn't just stop there with the scout.
"The trick to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources..." Albert Einstein
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Reav Hannari
Red Rock Outriders
2661
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Posted - 2014.01.19 17:40:00 -
[108] - Quote
We don't have to address the pure scout part of the Amarr suit. The attributes and ability to efficiently carry a cloak give them their disruptive ability. What we are trying to help CCP decide on is that little bit extra to give them their personality.
Is pure stamina enough? Boring but useful if the values are increased. Assassination using their native weapon? Already very powerful but a possibility. Ability to stand toe to toe with a heavier frame once the cloak drops? Could be very useful. Drop uplinks to bring in friends? Sure, sounds good.
What extra bonus makes them disruptive in Amarr style?
// Venge Captain // Matari Logistics / Scout / Pilot // @ReesNoturana
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Nocturnal Soul
Immortal Retribution
1648
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Posted - 2014.01.19 17:47:00 -
[109] - Quote
Reav Hannari wrote:We don't have to address the pure scout part of the Amarr suit. The attributes and ability to efficiently carry a cloak give them their disruptive ability. What we are trying to help CCP decide on is that little bit extra to give them their personality.
Is pure stamina enough? Boring but useful if the values are increased. Assassination using their native weapon? Already very powerful but a possibility. Ability to stand toe to toe with a heavier frame once the cloak drops? Could be very useful. Drop uplinks to bring in friends? Sure, sounds good.
What extra bonus makes them disruptive in Amarr style?
Thank you I'd gladly take anyone of these bonuses except the uplink one I just find it better on a logi suit. Most people would say "but how would you get behind enemy lines and drop them". Thats the wrong way to think about it, its more of a defensive type of play style making sure you have a back bone to get you back into the game quickly.
"The trick to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources..." Albert Einstein
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Vell0cet
SVER True Blood
Public Disorder.
806
|
Posted - 2014.01.19 18:00:00 -
[110] - Quote
Nocturnal Soul wrote:What you fail to see is that every amarr suit in the game has something to make it lean towards a more combative role on the field.
The logi gets a side-arm
The assaults heat reduction bonus
The heavy's two high slot that will most certainly be used for damage mods
It shouldn't just stop there with the scout.
I have no problem with the Amarr suit being combative, but I don't see how plate bonuses fit with the scout role. Surely a bonus to ScP clip size would qualify as combative without being a "stand-and-deliver" bonus like plates are.
I originally proposed a bonus to vehicle damage on remote explosives and proxi mines to fill the saboteur role specifically mentioned by CCP Remnant, but not explicitly filled by any of the other proposed suit bonuses. The Amarr would have a slight HP advantage that might make going up against a vehicle less suicidal. And I don't think people would complain if we had more viable A/V options out there. Not many people seemed to like it though, and that's cool.
Going the Assasin route seems to be the next best role to me. Assasins don't need tank, they need stealth and damage. Either a cloaking bonus on the most "technologically advanced" race or a bonus to the scrambler pistol would be the logical choices. Headshot bonuses seem cool, but I suspect if you add up the amount of damage this adds at the end of a round, it will be a small fraction of what the total damage increase is from the nova knife damage bonus the Minmatar get. You'd have to get dozens of ScP headshots per match for that bonus to be very useful. The clip size increase bonus makes going for the headshot a more viable tactic, since misses aren't quite so punishing with the existing small clips.
Quick/Dirty Test Range Idea
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Nocturnal Soul
Immortal Retribution
1648
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Posted - 2014.01.19 18:05:00 -
[111] - Quote
Vell0cet wrote:Nocturnal Soul wrote:What you fail to see is that every amarr suit in the game has something to make it lean towards a more combative role on the field.
The logi gets a side-arm
The assaults heat reduction bonus
The heavy's two high slot that will most certainly be used for damage mods
It shouldn't just stop there with the scout. I have no problem with the Amarr suit being combative, but I don't see how plate bonuses fit with the scout role. Surely a bonus to ScP clip size would qualify as combative without being a "stand-and-deliver" bonus like plates are. I originally proposed a bonus to vehicle damage on remote explosives and proxi mines to fill the saboteur role specifically mentioned by CCP Remnant, but not explicitly filled by any of the other proposed suit bonuses. The Amarr would have a slight HP advantage that might make going up against a vehicle less suicidal. And I don't think people would complain if we had more viable A/V options out there. Not many people seemed to like it though, and that's cool. Going the Assasin route seems to be the next best role to me. Assasins don't need tank, they need stealth and damage. Either a cloaking bonus on the most "technologically advanced" race or a bonus to the scrambler pistol would be the logical choices. Headshot bonuses seem cool, but I suspect if you add up the amount of damage this adds at the end of a round, it will be a small fraction of what the total damage increase is from the nova knife damage bonus the Minmatar get. You'd have to get dozens of ScP headshots per match for that bonus to be very useful. The clip size increase bonus makes going for the headshot a more viable tactic, since misses aren't quite so punishing with the existing small clips.
The bonus to plate speed reduction was only a suggestion I'd be damned if it actually got it because then it'll be followed by a hard nerf.
"The trick to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources..." Albert Einstein
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Stefan Stahl
Seituoda Taskforce Command
Caldari State
390
|
Posted - 2014.01.19 18:13:00 -
[112] - Quote
Stefan Stahl wrote:Suggestions I'd like: [...]
- A bonus to cloaking. Can't say in which way because I have no idea how cloaking is going to work. After some additional thought I've now settled for something like a slight cloaking bonus and the current (minor) stamina bonus.
That way a properly fit Amarr Scout would be about being visually undetectable.
A Gallente Scout would be about being undetectable from scanners.
A Caldari Scout would be about detecting everything.
A Minmatar Scout would be about not being where you've been spotted/detected a second before.
This has a certain balance to it. Caldari and Gallente are balanced against each other because neither can see the other on it's radar and Amarr and Minmatar are equal to each other in that an Amarr can't hunt down a Minmatar while the Minmatar can't spot/detect the Amarr. |
Llast 326
An Arkhos
1465
|
Posted - 2014.01.19 18:26:00 -
[113] - Quote
The Amarr Scout is missing a scouty feel in bonuses, that the other scout suits have. Scanning, dampening, and hacking are fairly obvious in their benefits to scouting, a stamina boost is also extremely useful to scouts, for running, and jumping, (melee not so much) but it does not give an obvious boost. When one looks at the overall build of the Amarr Scout it has a lot of potential as an engagement scout, able to work very well in combat with a small unit. Appropriate for the Amarr, I would say. This leads to a few directions that we could apply bonuses to, and these would influence the way one uses the Amarr scout.
A bonus to fitting Lazer Weapons (LR,SCR,SCP)
These are high fitting cost weapons, and while the fitting of scouts looks to be considerably more reasonable with the projected changes it would leave more room to fit higher tier modules that can also be costly. This would also complement the engagement role, however it does not bring a more 'scoutly feel' to the suit.
Bonus to fitting uplinks.
This bonus is covered by the Amarr Logi, though it is often a role taken by many scouts. I can say from experience it is a great way to control the flow of battle, break being redlined, direct blueberries towards a goalGǪ But it is really not the most exciting mode of operation. However with the ability to engage in battle on the flank with a sense of durability that other scouts don't really achieve, I could see Amarr scout using this to establish a battle line, a bring your own backup method of dictating battle flow. The Amarr scout is the least squishy of the light frames, and should handle sticking around to hit from a flank or rear rather well.
The original "leaked" bonus
Amarr Scout Bonus: 5% reduction to cloak field cooldown per level.
This bonus would definitely fall into the category of scoutly given that is stealth oriented, giving a scout feel to the Amarr. Though a few questions pop up with it. Originally it was the only bonus the Amarr Scout was going to be given, so adding it to another bonus may be overpowered, would a reduced % be in order to bring it inline? We don't actually have a solid idea of how the cloak will function so it's hard to really gauge what this will be like. Another aspect of this is I really think that scouts should be viable with or without the cloak. Does this bonus make the Amarr scout dependant on the cloak, or does it complement the existing attributes making it another tool in the box?
These are a few thoughts, similar (and even the same) options have been presented already, but these are what I see as good options. For what it is worth I only run scouts and have since open beta, my concern is that all scout suits are viable, and balanced, not just with each other but in the context of the whole game.
Also: Battle Skirt is necessary for the Amarr scout
KRRROOOOOOM
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Reav Hannari
Red Rock Outriders
2661
|
Posted - 2014.01.19 18:33:00 -
[114] - Quote
Vell0cet wrote:Going the Assasin route seems to be the next best role to me. Assasins don't need tank, they need stealth and damage. Either a cloaking bonus on the most "technologically advanced" race or a bonus to the scrambler pistol would be the logical choices. Headshot bonuses seem cool, but I suspect if you add up the amount of damage this adds at the end of a round, it will be a small fraction of what the total damage increase is from the nova knife damage bonus the Minmatar get. You'd have to get dozens of ScP headshots per match for that bonus to be very useful. The clip size increase bonus makes going for the headshot a more viable tactic, since misses aren't quite so punishing with the existing small clips.
The assassin role is my personal favorite and one I think matches the Amarr the best. It currently takes about two pistol head shots to do a comparable amount of damage to a single fully charge nova knife attack. The issue I now have with increasing that damage is that the pistol has some really nice range to it with makes it significantly more powerful than the nova knives. The reason I support giving the Amarr a defensive bonus and allowing them to wear armor without drawbacks is to allow them to make one covert attack and then be able to survive long enough to lengthen that attack and cause further disruption or to retreat.
If we are to go the gentleman assassin route with a scrambler pistol as their weapon of choice you want them to operate independently behind enemy lines for as long as possible. Carrying as much ammo as possible without dropping supply hives that reveal your position is a good idea. There will be enough slots for armor repair but some innate armor repair would not be overpowered.
Give them +20% stamina regeneration and +10 scrambler pistol rounds of maximum ammo per level. They can then have the equivalent of a complex green bottle, which I think most agree is fair, and 50 extra shots per pistol that is carried for long term operations. Add in 1 HP/s of armor repair to give them the only self-repairing Amarr suit on the field. They'll have two slots for equipment so they can still bring uplinks along with their cloak or whatever else suits their fancy.
Write up some lore about them being the immortal clone version of some slave hunter government organization. They are the relentless hunters that appear from the shadows and shoot you in the head with their holy handguns. Sort of like the Black Eagles but backed by the church.
// Venge Captain // Matari Logistics / Scout / Pilot // @ReesNoturana
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Vell0cet
SVER True Blood
Public Disorder.
806
|
Posted - 2014.01.19 19:00:00 -
[115] - Quote
Reav Hannari wrote:Carrying as much ammo as possible without dropping supply hives that reveal your position is a good idea. There will be enough slots for armor repair but some innate armor repair would not be overpowered.
Give them +20% stamina regeneration and +10 scrambler pistol rounds of maximum ammo per level. They can then have the equivalent of a complex green bottle, which I think most agree is fair, and 50 extra shots per pistol that is carried for long term operations. Add in 1 HP/s of armor repair to give them the only self-repairing Amarr suit on the field. They'll have two slots for equipment so they can still bring uplinks along with their cloak or whatever else suits their fancy.
I honestly don't expect to live long enough as a scout for the ammo capacity bonus to be a factor. In most cases, there should be a supply depot or friendly nano hive that is close enough to grab. I also expect to see lots of dual ScP fits, so you've probably got plenty of ammo, especially since, as an assassin, you're much more surgical about how you fire your rounds. Why don't you like the ScP clip-size bonus?
Also 3 bonuses + the cloak fitting bonus seems a bit much, no?
Quick/Dirty Test Range Idea
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Nocturnal Soul
Immortal Retribution
1650
|
Posted - 2014.01.19 19:12:00 -
[116] - Quote
Vell0cet wrote:Reav Hannari wrote:Carrying as much ammo as possible without dropping supply hives that reveal your position is a good idea. There will be enough slots for armor repair but some innate armor repair would not be overpowered.
Give them +20% stamina regeneration and +10 scrambler pistol rounds of maximum ammo per level. They can then have the equivalent of a complex green bottle, which I think most agree is fair, and 50 extra shots per pistol that is carried for long term operations. Add in 1 HP/s of armor repair to give them the only self-repairing Amarr suit on the field. They'll have two slots for equipment so they can still bring uplinks along with their cloak or whatever else suits their fancy. I honestly don't expect to live long enough as a scout for the ammo capacity bonus to be a factor. In most cases, there should be a supply depot or friendly nano hive that is close enough to grab. I also expect to see lots of dual ScP fits, so you've probably got plenty of ammo, especially since, as an assassin, you're much more surgical about how you fire your rounds. Why don't you like the ScP clip-size bonus? Also 3 bonuses + the cloak fitting bonus seems a bit much, no?
I'm personally swinging towards the original cloak ability and the current stamina bonus.
"The trick to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources..." Albert Einstein
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Summ Dude
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
130
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Posted - 2014.01.19 19:42:00 -
[117] - Quote
Reav Hannari wrote:Vell0cet wrote:Going the Assasin route seems to be the next best role to me. Assasins don't need tank, they need stealth and damage. Either a cloaking bonus on the most "technologically advanced" race or a bonus to the scrambler pistol would be the logical choices. Headshot bonuses seem cool, but I suspect if you add up the amount of damage this adds at the end of a round, it will be a small fraction of what the total damage increase is from the nova knife damage bonus the Minmatar get. You'd have to get dozens of ScP headshots per match for that bonus to be very useful. The clip size increase bonus makes going for the headshot a more viable tactic, since misses aren't quite so punishing with the existing small clips. The assassin role is my personal favorite and one I think matches the Amarr the best. It currently takes about two pistol head shots to do a comparable amount of damage to a single fully charge nova knife attack. The issue I now have with increasing that damage is that the pistol has some really nice range to it with makes it significantly more powerful than the nova knives. The reason I support giving the Amarr a defensive bonus and allowing them to wear armor without drawbacks is to allow them to make one covert attack and then be able to survive long enough to lengthen that attack and cause further disruption or to retreat. If we are to go the gentleman assassin route with a scrambler pistol as their weapon of choice you want them to operate independently behind enemy lines for as long as possible. Carrying as much ammo as possible without dropping supply hives that reveal your position is a good idea. There will be enough slots for armor repair but some innate armor repair would not be overpowered. Give them +20% stamina regeneration and +10 scrambler pistol rounds of maximum ammo per level. They can then have the equivalent of a complex green bottle, which I think most agree is fair, and 50 extra shots per pistol that is carried for long term operations. Add in 1 HP/s of armor repair to give them the only self-repairing Amarr suit on the field. They'll have two slots for equipment so they can still bring uplinks along with their cloak or whatever else suits their fancy. Write up some lore about them being the immortal clone version of some slave hunter government organization. They are the relentless hunters that appear from the shadows and shoot you in the head with their holy handguns. Sort of like the Black Eagles but backed by the church.
@Vell0cet- Yes, the headshot bonus damage on ScP would be less of an overall bonus than the Minmatar Scout's NK bonus, but as Reav sort of stated, they have some actual range, as well as a much faster fire rate, so I think that would actually balance out pretty well. Not to mention, I just find an assassination bonus like that to be pretty cool.
@Reav- Are you sure a bonus to ScP clip size wouldn't be a little more fitting and enticing? So they get that increased self-sustainability key to the Scout, but also that increased upfront combat usefulness for being Amarr. Also, I'd really rather the Gallente keep the passive armor repair. It fits with Eve (finally!), and I like dropsuits having little bits of unique character like that.
Not just a laymen, but the laymen.
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Vell0cet
SVER True Blood
Public Disorder.
806
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Posted - 2014.01.19 19:49:00 -
[118] - Quote
Nocturnal Soul wrote:Vell0cet wrote:Reav Hannari wrote:Carrying as much ammo as possible without dropping supply hives that reveal your position is a good idea. There will be enough slots for armor repair but some innate armor repair would not be overpowered.
Give them +20% stamina regeneration and +10 scrambler pistol rounds of maximum ammo per level. They can then have the equivalent of a complex green bottle, which I think most agree is fair, and 50 extra shots per pistol that is carried for long term operations. Add in 1 HP/s of armor repair to give them the only self-repairing Amarr suit on the field. They'll have two slots for equipment so they can still bring uplinks along with their cloak or whatever else suits their fancy. I honestly don't expect to live long enough as a scout for the ammo capacity bonus to be a factor. In most cases, there should be a supply depot or friendly nano hive that is close enough to grab. I also expect to see lots of dual ScP fits, so you've probably got plenty of ammo, especially since, as an assassin, you're much more surgical about how you fire your rounds. Why don't you like the ScP clip-size bonus? Also 3 bonuses + the cloak fitting bonus seems a bit much, no? I'm personally swinging towards the original cloak ability and the current stamina bonus.
Yeah, that's the way I'm leaning too. ScP clip size would be my alternate preference if it's decided that scouts shouldn't be designed around the cloak. With the base stats of the Amarr scout, I really don't see it being used without the cloak, like the other scouts might. I just won't be a viable/competitive fit. They're slow, and not bonused to hide from scanners (which I agree with-- it's consistent with the Amarr style), so their cloak will be their main source of defense as a result.
Quick/Dirty Test Range Idea
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Ghost Kaisar
Titans of Phoenix
Legacy Rising
2067
|
Posted - 2014.01.19 20:03:00 -
[119] - Quote
Summ Dude wrote:Reav Hannari wrote:Summ Dude wrote:Reav Hannari wrote:
The scouts become the flanking escort (aka outriders) for the for the assaults and heavies picking off those that attempt to flee using their range optimization subsystems? When they encounter resistance then the main force moves into deal with it.
"I'm not running you down, slave. I'll just burn you from here."
Escort role. Interesting idea.
Now that's something I can definitely get behind. Edit: So now what kind of bonus would help cement the role of picking of the stragglers? Increase range so they don't have to run them down? I'm not sure that is in the current game code and we don't want it delayed. I also like the suggestions from earlier for either increasing the efficacy of the ferroscale plates or removing the speed penalty of normal plates. The Amarr are all about armor buffer. The benefit of their scout is retaining movement speed without losing that ability. Since the scout should be well ahead or to the flank of logistics you don't want them to have to return for repairs or waiting in cover for slow armor repair to do its thing. So keep the current stamina bonuses, and then a reduction to armor plate movement penalty, enough so that at level 5 they experience none even from complex? This could really make them the ultimate distance runners, while still keeping that Amarr armor resiliency. And it definitely works with them being on the outside flanks of lines, chasing down any would-be runners. This might just be my new favorite.
Minmatar Scout here.
I approve of this.
In my head, the Amarr is supposed to be tough and inevitable. I will sprint at almost 10.38m/s, but I have very little stamina.
The Amarr scout will have MUCH more eHP and will always be hunting me. Eventually, I will have to turn and fight. I better have an ambush ready, cause there is no way my 350 eHP suit will be able to take you on in a head on fight.
Nothing says "F**K YOU!" like a direct Flaylock to the face.
Minmatar. In Rust we trust.
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Reav Hannari
Red Rock Outriders
2663
|
Posted - 2014.01.19 20:46:00 -
[120] - Quote
I applaud all contributors to this thread for a good debate and constructive comments. If this doesn't kick off some discussion between the CPM and CCP I'll be very disappointed. Only CCP knows where this will end but I'm hoping this will make the scout war between the Minmatar and the Amarr a good one.
// Venge Captain // Matari Logistics / Scout / Pilot // @ReesNoturana
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True Adamance
Kameira Lodge
Amarr Empire
5908
|
Posted - 2014.01.19 20:51:00 -
[121] - Quote
Ghost Kaisar wrote:Summ Dude wrote:Reav Hannari wrote:Summ Dude wrote:Reav Hannari wrote:
The scouts become the flanking escort (aka outriders) for the for the assaults and heavies picking off those that attempt to flee using their range optimization subsystems? When they encounter resistance then the main force moves into deal with it.
"I'm not running you down, slave. I'll just burn you from here."
Escort role. Interesting idea.
Now that's something I can definitely get behind. Edit: So now what kind of bonus would help cement the role of picking of the stragglers? Increase range so they don't have to run them down? I'm not sure that is in the current game code and we don't want it delayed. I also like the suggestions from earlier for either increasing the efficacy of the ferroscale plates or removing the speed penalty of normal plates. The Amarr are all about armor buffer. The benefit of their scout is retaining movement speed without losing that ability. Since the scout should be well ahead or to the flank of logistics you don't want them to have to return for repairs or waiting in cover for slow armor repair to do its thing. So keep the current stamina bonuses, and then a reduction to armor plate movement penalty, enough so that at level 5 they experience none even from complex? This could really make them the ultimate distance runners, while still keeping that Amarr armor resiliency. And it definitely works with them being on the outside flanks of lines, chasing down any would-be runners. This might just be my new favorite. Minmatar Scout here. I approve of this. In my head, the Amarr is supposed to be tough and inevitable. I will sprint at almost 10.38m/s, but I have very little stamina. The Amarr scout will have MUCH more eHP and will always be hunting me. Eventually, I will have to turn and fight. I better have an ambush ready, cause there is no way my 350 eHP suit will be able to take you on in a head on fight.
I love that summary.
Amarrian suits should be as you say "inevitable".
"My Faith in you is absolute; my sword is Yours, My God, and Your will guides me now and for all eternity."
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Vell0cet
SVER True Blood
Public Disorder.
809
|
Posted - 2014.01.19 21:08:00 -
[122] - Quote
Ghost Kaisar wrote:Minmatar Scout here.
I approve of this.
In my head, the Amarr is supposed to be tough and inevitable. I will sprint at almost 10.38m/s, but I have very little stamina.
The Amarr scout will have MUCH more eHP and will always be hunting me. Eventually, I will have to turn and fight. I better have an ambush ready, cause there is no way my 350 eHP suit will be able to take you on in a head on fight.
Even with stacked plates, one double-hit (not charged) from someone with decent knife proficiency and Minmatar scout 5 will take down the Amarr scout. Plates really aren't that advantageous in the scenario you're describing. Having a few more rounds to try to hit/decloak a fast moving Minmatar scout at full sprint with the ScP might though. Alternatively a cloaking bonus to help evade a fast moving Minja knifer so you can get in better position to take them down before they can close the distance and one-shot you might make the difference as well.
Quick/Dirty Test Range Idea
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Vell0cet
SVER True Blood
Public Disorder.
809
|
Posted - 2014.01.19 21:13:00 -
[123] - Quote
Reav Hannari wrote:I applaud all contributors to this thread for a good debate and constructive comments. If this doesn't kick off some discussion between the CPM and CCP I'll be very disappointed. Only CCP knows where this will end but I'm hoping this will make the scout war between the Minmatar and the Amarr a good one.
I agree. This has been a surprisingly constructive/rational discussion. I hope someone at CCP is reading along.
Quick/Dirty Test Range Idea
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
TRA1LBLAZERS
80
|
Posted - 2014.01.19 21:27:00 -
[124] - Quote
Reav Hannari wrote:We don't have to address the pure scout part of the Amarr suit. The attributes and ability to efficiently carry a cloak give them their disruptive ability. What we are trying to help CCP decide on is that little bit extra to give them their personality.
Is pure stamina enough? Boring but useful if the values are increased. Assassination using their native weapon? Already very powerful but a possibility. Ability to stand toe to toe with a heavier frame once the cloak drops? Could be very useful. Drop uplinks to bring in friends? Sure, sounds good.
What extra bonus makes them disruptive in Amarr style?
Drop uplink cloaking. There. Boom. Problem solved
Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives.
https://dust514.com/recruit/k3vMnb/
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Nocturnal Soul
Immortal Retribution
1657
|
Posted - 2014.01.19 21:30:00 -
[125] - Quote
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:Reav Hannari wrote:We don't have to address the pure scout part of the Amarr suit. The attributes and ability to efficiently carry a cloak give them their disruptive ability. What we are trying to help CCP decide on is that little bit extra to give them their personality.
Is pure stamina enough? Boring but useful if the values are increased. Assassination using their native weapon? Already very powerful but a possibility. Ability to stand toe to toe with a heavier frame once the cloak drops? Could be very useful. Drop uplinks to bring in friends? Sure, sounds good.
What extra bonus makes them disruptive in Amarr style? Drop uplink cloaking. There. Boom. Problem solved
The logi is more suited for the uplink bonus
"The trick to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources..." Albert Einstein
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
TRA1LBLAZERS
80
|
Posted - 2014.01.19 21:34:00 -
[126] - Quote
Ghost Kaisar wrote:Summ Dude wrote:Reav Hannari wrote:Summ Dude wrote:Reav Hannari wrote:
The scouts become the flanking escort (aka outriders) for the for the assaults and heavies picking off those that attempt to flee using their range optimization subsystems? When they encounter resistance then the main force moves into deal with it.
"I'm not running you down, slave. I'll just burn you from here."
Escort role. Interesting idea.
Now that's something I can definitely get behind. Edit: So now what kind of bonus would help cement the role of picking of the stragglers? Increase range so they don't have to run them down? I'm not sure that is in the current game code and we don't want it delayed. I also like the suggestions from earlier for either increasing the efficacy of the ferroscale plates or removing the speed penalty of normal plates. The Amarr are all about armor buffer. The benefit of their scout is retaining movement speed without losing that ability. Since the scout should be well ahead or to the flank of logistics you don't want them to have to return for repairs or waiting in cover for slow armor repair to do its thing. So keep the current stamina bonuses, and then a reduction to armor plate movement penalty, enough so that at level 5 they experience none even from complex? This could really make them the ultimate distance runners, while still keeping that Amarr armor resiliency. And it definitely works with them being on the outside flanks of lines, chasing down any would-be runners. This might just be my new favorite. Minmatar Scout here. I approve of this. In my head, the Amarr is supposed to be tough and inevitable. I will sprint at almost 10.38m/s, but I have very little stamina. The Amarr scout will have MUCH more eHP and will always be hunting me. Eventually, I will have to turn and fight. I better have an ambush ready, cause there is no way my 350 eHP suit will be able to take you on in a head on fight.
Easy- increase minmitar base speed by 5%, amarr (and all other scout races) speed by 3%, increase minmitar (and other scout races) base stamina and stamina regen by 5%, increase amarr stamina and stamina regen by 50%, then switch their skill bonus to 15% to deployed drop uplink profile dampening per level, making them invisible to all except proto focused scanners on a proto gallogi for scanning, forcing them to be hunted manually, and allowing a scout like drop uplink bonus for a large backside flanking attack, in typical amarr style (drop uplinks)
Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives.
https://dust514.com/recruit/k3vMnb/
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
TRA1LBLAZERS
80
|
Posted - 2014.01.19 21:36:00 -
[127] - Quote
Nocturnal Soul wrote:Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:Reav Hannari wrote:We don't have to address the pure scout part of the Amarr suit. The attributes and ability to efficiently carry a cloak give them their disruptive ability. What we are trying to help CCP decide on is that little bit extra to give them their personality.
Is pure stamina enough? Boring but useful if the values are increased. Assassination using their native weapon? Already very powerful but a possibility. Ability to stand toe to toe with a heavier frame once the cloak drops? Could be very useful. Drop uplinks to bring in friends? Sure, sounds good.
What extra bonus makes them disruptive in Amarr style? Drop uplink cloaking. There. Boom. Problem solved The logi is more suited for the uplink bonus
The logo uplink bonus increases the efficiency of uplinks, which is good for allowing a force to assault from the front lines, but the scouts bonus would allow for a multi man flanking attack for which no one knows where it is coming from.
Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives.
https://dust514.com/recruit/k3vMnb/
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low genius
The Sound Of Freedom
Renegade Alliance
1106
|
Posted - 2014.01.19 22:15:00 -
[128] - Quote
in my experience, you want a cpu/pg reduction on a cloaking device. the fittings cost will be severe, and you'd be crazy to not take it. |
Vell0cet
SVER True Blood
Public Disorder.
810
|
Posted - 2014.01.19 22:22:00 -
[129] - Quote
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:The logi uplink bonus increases the efficiency of uplinks, which is good for allowing a force to assault from the front lines, but the scouts bonus would allow for a multi man flanking attack for which no one knows where it is coming from.
While this does solve the problem of having a distinction between the logi and scout uplink roles, there are a few downsides.
The most significant is that it may require significant changes to the code for uplinks which is undesirable for a number of reasons (performance, chance of new bugs, delays in release, etc.). Also it would make the Amarr scout more of a support role, while the other 3 races have significant combat-oriented bonuses (yes scanning and dampening are very helpful in combat). It's also not all that exciting of a role. Logis really are the backbone support roles, making the Amarr scout into a fragile uplink logi (even with sneaker uplinks) is less interesting than some of other suggestions from a gameplay perspective IMO. It's a role some will fill for sure, but designing a 2nd suit around uplink spamming seems like uninspired game design.
Quick/Dirty Test Range Idea
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
TRA1LBLAZERS
80
|
Posted - 2014.01.19 22:36:00 -
[130] - Quote
Vell0cet wrote:Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:The logi uplink bonus increases the efficiency of uplinks, which is good for allowing a force to assault from the front lines, but the scouts bonus would allow for a multi man flanking attack for which no one knows where it is coming from. While this does solve the problem of having a distinction between the logi and scout uplink roles, there are a few downsides. The most significant is that it may require significant changes to the code for uplinks which is undesirable for a number of reasons (performance, chance of new bugs, delays in release, etc.). Also it would make the Amarr scout more of a support role, while the other 3 races have significant combat-oriented bonuses (yes scanning and dampening are very helpful in combat). It's also not all that exciting of a role. Logis really are the backbone support roles, making the Amarr scout into a fragile uplink logi (even with sneaker uplinks) is less interesting than some of other suggestions from a gameplay perspective IMO. It's a role some will fill for sure, but designing a 2nd suit around uplink spamming seems like uninspired game design.
I don't think so. If i were coding the game code, I wouldn't add a new value type to the class drop uplink, but instead have the bonus function independent of the actual drop uplink's class, as it currently (i don't believe) does not have a scan profile, using basic if statements to relate the level to active scanner db, and if it passed the db testing, prevent the uplink from going into the scanning output function. Its a really basic addition of code, probably less than 100 lines even.
Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives.
https://dust514.com/recruit/k3vMnb/
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Vell0cet
SVER True Blood
Public Disorder.
810
|
Posted - 2014.01.19 22:57:00 -
[131] - Quote
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:Vell0cet wrote:Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:The logi uplink bonus increases the efficiency of uplinks, which is good for allowing a force to assault from the front lines, but the scouts bonus would allow for a multi man flanking attack for which no one knows where it is coming from. While this does solve the problem of having a distinction between the logi and scout uplink roles, there are a few downsides. The most significant is that it may require significant changes to the code for uplinks which is undesirable for a number of reasons (performance, chance of new bugs, delays in release, etc.). Also it would make the Amarr scout more of a support role, while the other 3 races have significant combat-oriented bonuses (yes scanning and dampening are very helpful in combat). It's also not all that exciting of a role. Logis really are the backbone support roles, making the Amarr scout into a fragile uplink logi (even with sneaker uplinks) is less interesting than some of other suggestions from a gameplay perspective IMO. It's a role some will fill for sure, but designing a 2nd suit around uplink spamming seems like uninspired game design. I don't think so. If i were coding the game code, I wouldn't add a new value type to the class drop uplink, but instead have the bonus function independent of the actual drop uplink's class, as it currently (i don't believe) does not have a scan profile, using basic if statements to relate the level to active scanner db, and if it passed the db testing, prevent the uplink from going into the scanning output function. Its a really basic addition of code, probably less than 100 lines even. Also, none of the scouts new bonuses are really focused on combat, but this is an arguable point, and i would like to avoid an argument at the moment. Also, one of the scout's most important roles is to run drop uplinks, which pairs perfectly with the amarr's superb stamina for covering long distances. None of the scouts should get a combat oriented bonus, and the closest to combat orientation would be bonuses to allow for easier ambushing and assassination, which the other scouts roles do allow. But, in my opinion, the amarr is not a race focused on hit and run tactics and ambushes and assassinations. Therefore, the cloaked uplink bonus.
The code would be cleaner if they added a signatureProfile property to the Uplink class instead of exception checking each link everytime it's scanned (by players passive scanning and active scanners). But that's a code style debate and pretty far off topic for this discussion. What's your objection to a cloaking bonus? This one feels like you've ruled everything else out and this was all that's left.
Quick/Dirty Test Range Idea
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
TRA1LBLAZERS
81
|
Posted - 2014.01.19 23:33:00 -
[132] - Quote
Vell0cet wrote:
The code would be cleaner if they added a signatureProfile property to the Uplink class instead of exception checking each link everytime it's scanned (by players passive scanning and active scanners). But that's a code style debate and pretty far off topic for this discussion. What's your objection to a cloaking bonus? This one feels like you've ruled everything else out and this was all that's left.
I think that if it were a cloaking bonus, i would like it to be cloak duration, or something like that, and couple it with the cloaked uplinks. Double whammy right there
Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives.
https://dust514.com/recruit/k3vMnb/
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Nocturnal Soul
Immortal Retribution
1658
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 00:25:00 -
[133] - Quote
I have to agree with Vell anything getting a bonus to uplinks it just redundant. Since the logi already has a bonus to it that decreases the count to proto lvl for advance and just a second for proto.
"The trick to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources..." Albert Einstein
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Ludvig Enraga
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
831
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 18:18:00 -
[134] - Quote
Lavirac JR wrote:Here is my thought, Minmatar Scouts get close and personal with blades, well Amarr scouts should be the opposite, they should be distance fighters.
Back in the day the sharp shooting skill boosted suit's range with every weapon, that was OP. Now this specific suit, which would not be over powered with a range bonus, should get +5% maximum effective/optimal range for laser weapons per level. The suit is weak enough HP wise to make it not want to be in the front lines, but the range and scoutness of the suit helps it pick off enemies on the periphery of the battle.
I think that bonus would give Amarr scout a decent role without taking on the role of another suit.
I think this is about the worst suggestion. What you are proposing is a scout with an AR that stays BEHIND friendly lines as opposed to infiltrating enemy lines - because this is exactly the play style that your bonuses would encourage.
Oh, sht! I just learned you can make a signature! Thanks, CCP! Forums are getting better!
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Whiskey Fueled Merc
16
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Posted - 2014.01.20 18:20:00 -
[135] - Quote
Just to be clear. Stamina and regen are two bonuses. If you want this as a single bonus you'd have to choose either stamina OR regen. Not both.
This why the minmatar doesn't have nova knife damage AND melee damage and hacking speed.
(whoops posted on my alt)
snikt.
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Ludvig Enraga
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
831
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 18:23:00 -
[136] - Quote
Nocturnal Soul wrote:Bojo The Mighty wrote:Nocturnal Soul wrote:Bojo The Mighty wrote:1 is like meh
2 goes against nature
3 would honestly be ungodly OP
Just leave the current skill y'all be sprintin' for days But its so lame it at least needs to be between an Adv and Com mod to even be worth something. But I'll still use it though because what ever happens to it I'll still love my baby. Like I told KING CHECKMATE Consider the costs of the basic cardiac regulator. 5 PG. I mean the range amps cost 25 CPU at proto. But 5 PG is a ton for a basic module that also gives 2 bonuses in one module. Cardiac Regulators are Hoggish modules and if you make the skill bonus surpass ADV you are basically getting like what 10+ PG for free? Then what other bonus do you suggest because right now running 1 sec longer while being slower than a min assault ain't pretty right now.
Oh I doubt we are talking 1 sec longer. with this bonus Am scout will be running 50% longer than gal scout - which is a practical ceiling because anything above that is not necessarily useful. I would agree with buffing it maybe to 10% per level stamina pool and keep 5% extra regen per level.
Oh, sht! I just learned you can make a signature! Thanks, CCP! Forums are getting better!
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Magnus Amadeuss
Tal-Romon Legion
Amarr Empire
359
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 18:24:00 -
[137] - Quote
Whiskey Fueled Merc wrote:Just to be clear. Stamina and regen are two bonuses. If you want this as a single bonus you'd have to choose either stamina OR regen. Not both.
This why the minmatar doesn't have nova knife damage AND melee damage and hacking speed.
(whoops posted on my alt)
No
While there is no better place to be wealthy than the Gallente Federation, there is no hell worse for the poor either.
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Aero Yassavi
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
5603
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 18:29:00 -
[138] - Quote
Whiskey Fueled Merc wrote:Just to be clear. Stamina and regen are two bonuses. If you want this as a single bonus you'd have to choose either stamina OR regen. Not both.
This why the minmatar doesn't have nova knife damage AND melee damage and hacking speed.
(whoops posted on my alt)
Just to be clear, stamina and stamina regen are covered in one module, just like scan precision, profile dampening, or hacking speed are each covered in one module. Whether you like it or not, how bonuses are applied within modules affects how racial bonuses should be handled.
ARC Commander
CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
|
Magnus Amadeuss
Tal-Romon Legion
Amarr Empire
361
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 18:30:00 -
[139] - Quote
Ludvig Enraga wrote:Nocturnal Soul wrote:Bojo The Mighty wrote:Nocturnal Soul wrote:Bojo The Mighty wrote:1 is like meh
2 goes against nature
3 would honestly be ungodly OP
Just leave the current skill y'all be sprintin' for days But its so lame it at least needs to be between an Adv and Com mod to even be worth something. But I'll still use it though because what ever happens to it I'll still love my baby. Like I told KING CHECKMATE Consider the costs of the basic cardiac regulator. 5 PG. I mean the range amps cost 25 CPU at proto. But 5 PG is a ton for a basic module that also gives 2 bonuses in one module. Cardiac Regulators are Hoggish modules and if you make the skill bonus surpass ADV you are basically getting like what 10+ PG for free? Then what other bonus do you suggest because right now running 1 sec longer while being slower than a min assault ain't pretty right now. Oh I doubt we are talking 1 sec longer. with this bonus Am scout will be running 50% longer than gal scout - which is a practical ceiling because anything above that is not necessarily useful. I would agree with buffing it maybe to 10% per level stamina pool and keep 5% extra regen per level.
Nope....10% per lvl would be worth less than an advanced module. So unless all the other suits get their bonuses SERIOUSLY nerfed, it needs to be higher, and there needs to be another bonus.
While there is no better place to be wealthy than the Gallente Federation, there is no hell worse for the poor either.
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Spectral Clone
Dust2Dust.
Top Men.
1056
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 18:30:00 -
[140] - Quote
5% bonus to praying per level. |
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Aero Yassavi
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
5603
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 18:33:00 -
[141] - Quote
Spectral Clone wrote:5% bonus to praying per level.
This would be a good bonus 
ARC Commander
CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
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Nocturnal Soul
Immortal Retribution
1680
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 18:34:00 -
[142] - Quote
A bonus to cloak recharge rate or something like that
"The trick to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources..." Albert Einstein
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Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
3262
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 18:35:00 -
[143] - Quote
A droplink bonus to their function minimalizes the logi bonus (assuming that IS still the logi bonus, which we don't know).
However, a fitting bonus to links specifically could be useful, since droplinks can be a little hard to fit compared to other equipment - and the droplinks wouldn't have the "improved" stat bit like the Logi. It seems like with the improved fitting stats and slots on the scouts, something like that wouldn't really be necessary though.
I think a better-than-current stamina bonus and ScP clip-size is my favorite of the currently suggested bonuses as far as being reasonable. Swapping the clip-size with sprint speed, range bonuses, etc. is a bit more questionable balance-wise.
Join my cult.
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Aero Yassavi
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
5603
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 18:37:00 -
[144] - Quote
Zeylon Rho wrote:A droplink bonus to their function minimalizes the logi bonus (assuming that IS still the logi bonus, which we don't know).
However, a fitting bonus to links specifically could be useful, since droplinks can be a little hard to fit compared to other equipment - and the droplinks wouldn't have the "improved" stat bit like the Logi. It seems like with the improved fitting stats and slots on the scouts, something like that wouldn't really be necessary though.
I think a better-than-current stamina bonus and ScP clip-size is my favorite of the currently suggested bonuses as far as being reasonable. Swapping the clip-size with sprint speed, range bonuses, etc. is a bit more questionable balance-wise.
Another fitting reduction would not be a good choice, since the class bonus is already a fitting reduction bonus.
Also Scrambler Pistol Operations is already an increase in clip-size, so another bonus to that becomes redundant.
ARC Commander
CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
|
Magnus Amadeuss
Tal-Romon Legion
Amarr Empire
361
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 18:37:00 -
[145] - Quote
I don't really have an answer, but I can throw out some guidance.
It seem like the average suit bonus for scouts is worth 1 prototype, 1 advanced, and 1 basic module. Try to design the amarr scout bonus around this structure.
While there is no better place to be wealthy than the Gallente Federation, there is no hell worse for the poor either.
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Nocturnal Soul
Immortal Retribution
1680
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 18:37:00 -
[146] - Quote
Zeylon Rho wrote:A droplink bonus to their function minimalizes the logi bonus (assuming that IS still the logi bonus, which we don't know).
However, a fitting bonus to links specifically could be useful, since droplinks can be a little hard to fit compared to other equipment - and the droplinks wouldn't have the "improved" stat bit like the Logi. It seems like with the improved fitting stats and slots on the scouts, something like that wouldn't really be necessary though.
I think a better-than-current stamina bonus and ScP clip-size is my favorite of the currently suggested bonuses as far as being reasonable. Swapping the clip-size with sprint speed, range bonuses, etc. is a bit more questionable balance-wise.
I hate it when people say give the amarr scout a bonus to uplinks its just redundant
"The trick to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources..." Albert Einstein
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Nocturnal Soul
Immortal Retribution
1680
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 18:40:00 -
[147] - Quote
A bonus to cloak cool down
A bonus that's equal to that of a standard card reg
Idk
"The trick to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources..." Albert Einstein
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Nocturnal Soul
Immortal Retribution
1680
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 18:41:00 -
[148] - Quote
^ That's all I'm asking for ^
"The trick to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources..." Albert Einstein
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Aero Yassavi
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
5605
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 18:45:00 -
[149] - Quote
Magnus Amadeuss wrote:I don't really have an answer, but I can throw out some guidance.
It seem like the average suit bonus for scouts is worth 1 prototype, 1 advanced, and 1 basic module. Try to design the amarr scout bonus around this structure.
This is what we've been trying to suggest, but every time we bring it out everyone complains that the Amarr already have better base stats, which of course is completely subjective. And honestly, every race has something special about it's base stats (Amarr 30 more HP, Gallente 3 hp/s armor repair, Caldari 50 shield recharge rate, Minmatar faster speed and 10% faster hacking), so really bonuses should be balanced within themselves.
ARC Commander
CPM Info and Q&A - Status: Open
|
Magnus Amadeuss
Tal-Romon Legion
Amarr Empire
363
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 18:57:00 -
[150] - Quote
Aero Yassavi wrote:Magnus Amadeuss wrote:I don't really have an answer, but I can throw out some guidance.
It seem like the average suit bonus for scouts is worth 1 prototype, 1 advanced, and 1 basic module. Try to design the amarr scout bonus around this structure. This is what we've been trying to suggest, but every time we bring it out everyone complains that the Amarr already have better base stats, which of course is completely subjective. And honestly, every race has something special about it's base stats (Amarr 30 more HP, Gallente 3 hp/s armor repair, Caldari 50 shield recharge rate, Minmatar faster speed and 10% faster hacking), so really bonuses should be balanced within themselves.
I mostly agree with what you have said, but not 100%. Here let me repost a bit of information:
amarrian suits are:
96% as fast as caldari/gallente
93% as fast as minmatar
with 12.5% more stamina and 33% more stamina recovery that gallente/caldari
4% more stamina and 12.5% more stamina recovery than minmatar
For the first 30 seconds of sprinting the race would finish like this
Minmatar-------gallente/caldari---amarr
So, amarr is slower (this means less jumping height, slower strafing, and slower movement) than the rest of the suits, and for this they get a little bit more HP and stamina. The minmatar sacrifice some HP for more speed and stamina.
This by itself is balanced, and it has been since Dust started.
the 3 hp/sec for the gallente scout is basically a free bonus, or a free advanced module.
The 5% bonus hacking speed (beyond the other scouts) for the minmatar scout is also another bonus, and due to the non-stacking penalty it recieves, is very close to the value of a free basic hacking module.
This just adds insult to injury of course, making the amarr (and to lesser extent the caldari) scouts worth less.
Minmatar bonuses = 5 free modules (4 proto type and 1 basic)
Gallente bonuses = 3 free modules (1 proto 1 adv 1 basic)
Caldari bonuses = 3 free modules (1 proto 2 basic)
Amarr bonuses = 0.66 free modules (2/3rds of a basic module)
This is an imbalance that needs to be equalized.
While there is no better place to be wealthy than the Gallente Federation, there is no hell worse for the poor either.
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
TRA1LBLAZERS
100
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 21:30:00 -
[151] - Quote
Nocturnal Soul wrote:Zeylon Rho wrote:A droplink bonus to their function minimalizes the logi bonus (assuming that IS still the logi bonus, which we don't know).
However, a fitting bonus to links specifically could be useful, since droplinks can be a little hard to fit compared to other equipment - and the droplinks wouldn't have the "improved" stat bit like the Logi. It seems like with the improved fitting stats and slots on the scouts, something like that wouldn't really be necessary though.
I think a better-than-current stamina bonus and ScP clip-size is my favorite of the currently suggested bonuses as far as being reasonable. Swapping the clip-size with sprint speed, range bonuses, etc. is a bit more questionable balance-wise. I hate it when people say give the amarr scout a bonus to uplinks its just redundant
How? If you ever run uplinks on a scout, you would know that there are two types of uplinks. One is for a discrete placement behind enemy lines, and the other is to hold a position, with a massive clone count on the uplinks to be available to be spawned in. If you gave the amarr scout an uplink cloaking bonus, it would help its scoutly role. I don't understand what is wrong with this bonus, as every other scout class gets a similar bonus to a scoutly role
Minmitar-Hacking and assassination
Gallente-Staying off the radar for all sorts of scoutly mischief
Caldari-Able to track down, hunt, and kill all types of suits, including scouts
Amarr- MAssive stamina should provide it with a bonus to running uplinks, which is probably the scouts biggest role.
While the logo can spam uplinks to hold an objective, the amarr logi is the slowest non heavy suit in the game, making running drop uplinks irrelevant for their suit. The amarr scout is going to be the best suit in the game for covering long distances, so replace the skill bonus per level to an inherent base bonus and give the amarr uplink cloaking. If you gave them this, i would probably spec into an amarr scout just for the better uplink running.
Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives.
https://dust514.com/recruit/k3vMnb/
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
TRA1LBLAZERS
100
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Posted - 2014.01.20 22:21:00 -
[152] - Quote
Magnus Amadeuss wrote:
Minmatar bonuses = 5 free modules (4 proto type and 1 basic)
Gallente bonuses = 3 free modules (1 proto 1 adv 1 basic)
Caldari bonuses = 3 free modules (1 proto 2 basic)
Amarr bonuses = 0.66 free modules (2/3rds of a basic module)
This is an imbalance that needs to be equalized.
Minmitar does not receive 4 proto modules, they only receive one (hacking). Saying that the knife bonus is equal to 3 proto damage mods is poor reasoning, and i respectfully disagree with it. If it was a 5% damage bonus to sidearms per level, then i would agree but its not, so you have to do the math like this
25% damage bonus is about equal to 3 proto modules
now that is assuming that this bonus affects all sidearms, where in reality it affects only one, which also happens to be the most situational weapon in the game.
So, we will divide this 25% bonus by the number of total sidearms which is currently 4, but is soon to be 7, in the new patch
25/7=about 3.6, rounding up. This is just barely more effective than a militia grade damage module. Also, if you believe this bonus is overpowered for minja's, I would invite you to run nova knives only, no sidearm, and see how well that works for you. I feel that if people who are complaint that the minmitar scout is OP actually used nova knives, they would feel differently about it.
Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives.
https://dust514.com/recruit/k3vMnb/
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
12386
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Posted - 2014.01.20 22:33:00 -
[153] - Quote
Fitting score of preinstalled modules is as is
AK. 28
GK 24.5
MK 26.25
CK 26.5
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist
\\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
TRA1LBLAZERS
100
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Posted - 2014.01.20 22:35:00 -
[154] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Fitting score of preinstalled modules is as is
AK. 28
GK 24.5
MK 26.25
CK 26.5
What?
Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives.
https://dust514.com/recruit/k3vMnb/
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Summ Dude
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
145
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 22:51:00 -
[155] - Quote
I think my favorite is still a bonus to ScP headshot damage. I think it would be the best match-up against the Minmatar Scout bonus; it's for a specific sidearm, adds in an assassination element, but works at a moderate range as opposed to being up close. And I know some people worry it'll be abused with cloaks (i.e. turn invisible, walk up behind someone, easy headshot), but is that really any different from what the Minmatar will do with their knives? And isn't that kinda the point of a Scout anyway?
Not just a laymen, but the laymen.
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Faquira Bleuetta
Fatal Absolution
Covert Intervention
194
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Posted - 2014.01.20 23:09:00 -
[156] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Fitting score of preinstalled modules is as is
AK. 28
GK 24.5
MK 26.25
CK 26.5
and 2+2=5
QQ king kobrah QQ
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Marc Rime
226
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Posted - 2014.01.20 23:09:00 -
[157] - Quote
I wouldn't want the cloak bonus - the reason is that I don't want any of the scouts to be viable only if a specific piece of equipment is used (then again I doubt I'll train Amarr scouts any time soon, so why listen to me ;)).
The other suggestions aren't too bad. I particularly like the speed penalty reduction on armour plates. Would allow for fitting it for more HP without totally ruining its speed, while still leaving it the slowest moving scout. Goes well with how Amarr are supposed to play. Might be hard to balance though, the bonus would have to be low enough to make you move slowly if you brick tank it, but high enough to still do something if you don't. |
Marc Rime
226
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 23:13:00 -
[158] - Quote
Not sure if this has been mentioned, but if its PG/CPU remains on par with the other scouts, then maybe it should get a PG/CPU reduction for laser weapons? They tend to have higher fitting reqs than other races weapons after all. It would be silly if viable builds require the use of minmatar weapons. |
Nocturnal Soul
Immortal Retribution
1685
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 23:36:00 -
[159] - Quote
Marc Rime wrote:I wouldn't want the cloak bonus - the reason is that I don't want any of the scouts to be viable only if a specific piece of equipment is used (then again I doubt I'll train Amarr scouts any time soon, so why listen to me ;)).
The other suggestions aren't too bad. I particularly like the speed penalty reduction on armour plates. Would allow for fitting it for more HP without totally ruining its speed, while still leaving it the slowest moving scout. Goes well with how Amarr are supposed to play. Might be hard to balance though, the bonus would have to be low enough to make you move slowly if you brick tank it, but high enough to still do something if you don't.
Yup that sure is a good reason to not listen to you
"The trick to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources..." Albert Einstein
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
12392
|
Posted - 2014.01.20 23:45:00 -
[160] - Quote
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Fitting score of preinstalled modules is as is
AK. 28
GK 24.5
MK 26.25
CK 26.5 What?
Have to include all modules and this is just comparing it against scouts and not the whole spectrum.
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist
\\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
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Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
3270
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Posted - 2014.01.20 23:45:00 -
[161] - Quote
Aero Yassavi wrote:Zeylon Rho wrote:A droplink bonus to their function minimalizes the logi bonus (assuming that IS still the logi bonus, which we don't know).
However, a fitting bonus to links specifically could be useful, since droplinks can be a little hard to fit compared to other equipment - and the droplinks wouldn't have the "improved" stat bit like the Logi. It seems like with the improved fitting stats and slots on the scouts, something like that wouldn't really be necessary though.
I think a better-than-current stamina bonus and ScP clip-size is my favorite of the currently suggested bonuses as far as being reasonable. Swapping the clip-size with sprint speed, range bonuses, etc. is a bit more questionable balance-wise. Another fitting reduction would not be a good choice, since the class bonus is already a fitting reduction bonus. Also Scrambler Pistol Operations is already an increase in clip-size, so another bonus to that becomes redundant.
The class bonus is cloak fitting, you can't use more than one cloak, so fitting an uplink isn't redundant - it's quite useful for any scout that's putting down links. Links are among the larger resource hogs in equipment.
Would you avoid using a damage mod because you had max proficiency and more damage would be "redundant"? More rounds in a clip is useful. Because the weapon bonus already adds clip-size, that creates a synergy for the Amarr Scout in particular.
An Assault Scrambler Pistol has 48 ammo, and a 6 round clip by default, but with a theoretical suit clip-size bonus it would be a 16 round clip. For a Burst Scrambler Pistol you have 12 rounds by default, but with a doubled bonus you'd hit 22. That's just enough for 7 bursts.
I'd suggest the clip-size bonus as an adjunct to a proper scaling stamina bonus that gave you the equivalent of a proto module at rank 5.
I think it's more "probable" than a headshot bonus, damage bonus to lasers, or most things like that. It's unquestionably more useful than these scout-tank ideas some people have.
Join my cult.
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KING CHECKMATE
Ametat Security
Amarr Empire
3845
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Posted - 2014.01.21 02:26:00 -
[162] - Quote
Nocturnal Soul wrote:Here I'm going to make a list of all the possibilities of a new bonus.
Primary:
Increased ammo clip size.
2% to Scp rate of fire.
Laser rifle feedback damage -10%
Headshot damage multiplier x%
Speed penalty reduction -x%
A bonus to cloaking
Secondary:
5% to stamina regain rate and max.
Thoughts on resent comments:
To Cyrius no only a small portion of the community agreed to that.
To Viktor it can never take my assaults bonus away from it.
What the comments favor
Headshot damage multiplier: even though it already has a 450% to headshots but cool
A bonus to cloaking: preferably the old one we had before a SMALL part of the community complained about it.
HERE:
GÖª 5% to max stamina & Stamina regen + 5% Reduction to heat buildup on laser weaponry per level.
GIVE ME A RESPEC CCP.
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Magnus Amadeuss
Tal-Romon Legion
Amarr Empire
376
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Posted - 2014.01.21 02:57:00 -
[163] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Fitting score of preinstalled modules is as is
AK. 28
GK 24.5
MK 26.25
CK 26.5 What? Have to include all modules and this is just comparing it against scouts and not the whole spectrum.
So apparently IWS is on crack.
The amarr have a 12.5% bonus to stamina, 33% bonus to stamina regene, and 30 hp over standard. As payment for this, the amarr sacrifice 4% movement speed (a stat that cannot be made up... in any way, this also effects the ability to strafe and jump) and 4% sprint speed.
The gallente have base HP, base sprint, base movement, base eHP, base stamina, base stamina regen, and an extra 3 armor HP/sec. The gallente sacrifice NOTHING for free advanced armor repper.
The caldari have base HP, base sprint, base movement, base eHP, base stamina, base stamina regen, and an extra 3 armor HP/sec.
The minmatar has a 4 % bonus to stamina, a 12.5% bonus to stamina regen, 4% faster movement and 4% faster sprint, as payment for this... 30 ehp.
The minmatar get 5 free slots through bonus
Gallente get 3
Caldari get 3
Amarr gets 1
Minmatar get the most CPU, least PG (on suits that are CPU limited)
Amarr get the second least CPU, and the second most PG (on suits that are PG limited)
Tell me how you got those ridiculous and frankly insulting numbers IWS.
While there is no better place to be wealthy than the Gallente Federation, there is no hell worse for the poor either.
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KING CHECKMATE
Ametat Security
Amarr Empire
3854
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Posted - 2014.01.21 03:00:00 -
[164] - Quote
Magnus Amadeuss wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Fitting score of preinstalled modules is as is
AK. 28
GK 24.5
MK 26.25
CK 26.5 What? Have to include all modules and this is just comparing it against scouts and not the whole spectrum. So apparently IWS is on crack. The amarr have a 12.5% bonus to stamina, 33% bonus to stamina regene, and 30 hp over standard. As payment for this, the amarr sacrifice 4% movement speed (a stat that cannot be made up... in any way, this also effects the ability to strafe and jump) and 4% sprint speed. The gallente have base HP, base sprint, base movement, base eHP, base stamina, base stamina regen, and an extra 3 armor HP/sec. The gallente sacrifice NOTHING for free advanced armor repper. The caldari have base HP, base sprint, base movement, base eHP, base stamina, base stamina regen, and an extra 3 armor HP/sec. The minmatar has a 4 % bonus to stamina, a 12.5% bonus to stamina regen, 4% faster movement and 4% faster sprint, as payment for this... 30 ehp. The minmatar get 5 free slots through bonus Gallente get 3 Caldari get 3 Amarr gets 1 Minmatar get the most CPU, least PG (on suits that are CPU limited) Amarr get the second least CPU, and the second most PG (on suits that are PG limited) Tell me how you got those ridiculous and frankly insulting numbers IWS.
Actually, LESS than one. Since a MLT CArdiac regulator surpasses amarr bonus.
Again, i want this CCP:
AMARR SCOUT
GÖª 5% to max stamina & Stamina regen + 5% Reduction to heat buildup on laser weaponry per level.
GIVE ME A RESPEC CCP.
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Summ Dude
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
146
|
Posted - 2014.01.21 06:02:00 -
[165] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:Magnus Amadeuss wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Fitting score of preinstalled modules is as is
AK. 28
GK 24.5
MK 26.25
CK 26.5 What? Have to include all modules and this is just comparing it against scouts and not the whole spectrum. So apparently IWS is on crack. The amarr have a 12.5% bonus to stamina, 33% bonus to stamina regene, and 30 hp over standard. As payment for this, the amarr sacrifice 4% movement speed (a stat that cannot be made up... in any way, this also effects the ability to strafe and jump) and 4% sprint speed. The gallente have base HP, base sprint, base movement, base eHP, base stamina, base stamina regen, and an extra 3 armor HP/sec. The gallente sacrifice NOTHING for free advanced armor repper. The caldari have base HP, base sprint, base movement, base eHP, base stamina, base stamina regen, and an extra 3 armor HP/sec. The minmatar has a 4 % bonus to stamina, a 12.5% bonus to stamina regen, 4% faster movement and 4% faster sprint, as payment for this... 30 ehp. The minmatar get 5 free slots through bonus Gallente get 3 Caldari get 3 Amarr gets 1 Minmatar get the most CPU, least PG (on suits that are CPU limited) Amarr get the second least CPU, and the second most PG (on suits that are PG limited) Tell me how you got those ridiculous and frankly insulting numbers IWS.
Actually, LESS than one. Since a MLT CArdiac regulator surpasses amarr bonus.Again, i want this CCP: AMARR SCOUT GÖª 5% to max stamina & Stamina regen + 5% Reduction to heat buildup on laser weaponry per level.
But that works sooooo much better on the Amarr Assault. Really I hope all the assault suits get bonuses to their race's weaponry, much like Kagehosi's idea.
Not just a laymen, but the laymen.
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
TRA1LBLAZERS
108
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Posted - 2014.01.21 20:01:00 -
[166] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:
Actually, LESS than one. Since a MLT CArdiac regulator surpasses amarr bonus.
Again, i want this CCP:
AMARR SCOUT
GÖª 5% to max stamina & Stamina regen + 5% Reduction to heat buildup on laser weaponry per level.
If your argument is that the bonus is equivalent to less than 1 MLT module, instead of suggesting a replacement for the bonus becoming the most overpowered bonus in the game (don't argue with me, you know that it is true), instead suggest a 15% bonus to the aforementioned stats instead of 5%.
Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives.
https://dust514.com/recruit/k3vMnb/
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Faquira Bleuetta
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
269
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 22:08:00 -
[167] - Quote
bump
(n+ëGèÖGÇ+GèÖ)n+ën+PpÇÄG£º~TEARS~G£ºpÇÅ 1.8 Laser rifle buff faq will be back to melt all ur sorry ass the good ol chromosomes days.
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Aisha Ctarl
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
3903
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 22:39:00 -
[168] - Quote
I'm ok with the stamina bonus, but I agree, the Amarr scout doesn't have anything scout like about it at all.
I could list the ways how we Amarr are better than you, but your lesser mind wouldn't comprehend it.
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Summ Dude
Direct Action Resources
290
|
Posted - 2014.03.12 23:44:00 -
[169] - Quote
Really kinda disappointing they left the bonus as is for 1.8, huh? 
Not just a laymen, but the laymen.
Winn Summ and lose Summ.
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