DUST Search - New Amarr scout primary & secondary bonuses( ideas wanted)

Zeylon Rho wrote:

A basic cardio regulator is 5 cpu 4 pg (not 5 pg).

I'll assume you already know that the Minmatar module "value" far outstrips a basic cardio, even with just the hacking bonus. One complex codebreaker is 45 cpu 11 pg, if you add up sets of Complex damage mods (or the suit's extra 5% to hacking...)

Range Amps aren't the meat of the bonuses of the other scouts. In either case, 25% bonus to range is a STD range amp, 15 cpu free mod for both. The true value there is the free slot more likely than not, as that's not something people would fit.

25% Profile dampening is 33cpu for a complex module. 25% Profile precision doesn't exist in-game (complex is 20% for 26 cpu... a complex + basic (18 cpu, 10%) would be a bit closer).

The module total would look more like 48 cpu gallente (and two slots) and 50-59cpu for the caldari (and 2-3 slots because a complex precision is less than the bonus)

I'm not sure where you're getting the bit about the skill bonus to surpass ADV? At rank V, the Amarr Scout has LESS than a Basic Cardiac regulator. Max skill is not even getting you the equivalent of a single basic module. It's certainly not getting anything like over 10 pg "for free". You're not even getting the full value of a module that cost 4 pg.

On the subject of pg vs. cpu. It's already not an even field because the suits stats vary. A Gallente suit has the most PG, for example. Minmatar has the highest CPU, followed by Caldari. If you average the values of the suits, the ratio of pg to cpu is a little over 5. So each 1 pg is worth about 5 cpu. Given that, the Gallente bonus is about 9-10 pg. The Caldari is about 10-12pg. The Minmatar is basically another dropsuit.

The cost of the basic regulator is 5 pg if you add the 5 cpu to the 4 pg, or half the value of the next lowest bonus. That's ignoring the fact that the basic regulator would only take one slot, that the amarr bonus is LESS than a basic regulator, and that the other racial bonuses save more slots than the Amarr's does.

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Nocturnal Soul Immortal Retribution 1622	Posted - 2014.01.18 03:19:00 - [1] - Quote Here I'm going to make a list of all the possibilities of a new bonus. Primary: Increased ammo clip size. 5% to kin cat effectiveness. 2% to Scp rate of fire. Secondary: 5% to stamina regain rate and max. "The trick to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources..." Albert Einstein
Bojo The Mighty L.O.T.I.S. 2754	Posted - 2014.01.18 03:21:00 - [2] - Quote 1 is like meh 2 goes against nature 3 would honestly be ungodly OP Just leave the current skill y'all be sprintin' for days Check out latest BSOTT Guide
Tectonic Fusion 977	Posted - 2014.01.18 03:23:00 - [3] - Quote Bojo The Mighty wrote: 1 is like meh 2 goes against nature 3 would honestly be ungodly OP Just leave the current skill y'all be sprintin' for days I agree, but number 3 is...well let's just say you might as well kill yourself. Solo Player Squad status: Locked
Nocturnal Soul Immortal Retribution 1622	Posted - 2014.01.18 03:24:00 - [4] - Quote Bojo The Mighty wrote: 1 is like meh 2 goes against nature 3 would honestly be ungodly OP Just leave the current skill y'all be sprintin' for days But its so lame it at least needs to be between an Adv and Com mod to even be worth something. But I'll still use it though because what ever happens to it I'll still love my baby. "The trick to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources..." Albert Einstein
Reav Hannari Red Rock Outriders 2626	Posted - 2014.01.18 03:29:00 - [5] - Quote Yeah, make it complex level at scout 5. There has to be something more interesting than stamina though. // Venge Captain // Matari Logistics / Scout / Pilot // @ReesNoturana
Bojo The Mighty L.O.T.I.S. 2755	Posted - 2014.01.18 03:30:00 - [6] - Quote Nocturnal Soul wrote: Bojo The Mighty wrote: 1 is like meh 2 goes against nature 3 would honestly be ungodly OP Just leave the current skill y'all be sprintin' for days But its so lame it at least needs to be between an Adv and Com mod to even be worth something. But I'll still use it though because what ever happens to it I'll still love my baby. Like I told KING CHECKMATE Consider the costs of the basic cardiac regulator. 5 PG. I mean the range amps cost 25 CPU at proto. But 5 PG is a ton for a basic module that also gives 2 bonuses in one module. Cardiac Regulators are Hoggish modules and if you make the skill bonus surpass ADV you are basically getting like what 10+ PG for free? Check out latest BSOTT Guide
Nocturnal Soul Immortal Retribution 1622	Posted - 2014.01.18 03:35:00 - [7] - Quote Bojo The Mighty wrote: Nocturnal Soul wrote: Bojo The Mighty wrote: 1 is like meh 2 goes against nature 3 would honestly be ungodly OP Just leave the current skill y'all be sprintin' for days But its so lame it at least needs to be between an Adv and Com mod to even be worth something. But I'll still use it though because what ever happens to it I'll still love my baby. Like I told KING CHECKMATE Consider the costs of the basic cardiac regulator. 5 PG. I mean the range amps cost 25 CPU at proto. But 5 PG is a ton for a basic module that also gives 2 bonuses in one module. Cardiac Regulators are Hoggish modules and if you make the skill bonus surpass ADV you are basically getting like what 10+ PG for free? Then what other bonus do you suggest because right now running 1 sec longer while being slower than a min assault ain't pretty right now. "The trick to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources..." Albert Einstein
Bojo The Mighty L.O.T.I.S. 2755	Posted - 2014.01.18 03:39:00 - [8] - Quote Nocturnal Soul wrote: Then what other bonus do you suggest because right now running 1 sec long while being slower than a min assault ain't pretty right now. If I would come up with one -10% laser weapon feedback damage -5% Heat build Up It would be a scout that does not lose a large portion of HP to overheat. ScR and Laser Rifle are very iffy scout weapons because they seize and inflict self-damage so give the amarr scout the ability to comfortably wield these very powerful weapons and you have one mean scout. Check out latest BSOTT Guide
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 1614	Posted - 2014.01.18 03:39:00 - [9] - Quote I'm gonna vote for some type of uplink bonus in every one of these threads eventually. Think I've missed one somewhere.... "The line between disorder and order lies in logistics" -Sun Tzu Amarr victor! Forum Warrior lv.1
Scheneighnay McBob Learning Coalition College 3605	Posted - 2014.01.18 03:40:00 - [10] - Quote You have to realize that every race actually has their specific playstyle- that's alot of the fun of making racial themed alts/squads. Amarr are really the slow-and-steady race which, when used correctly, makes a rock-solid frontline that may have trouble advancing. With that, amarr scouts would focus on placing uplinks to help the frontliners move more efficiently. They should probably have some bonus to using uplinks. We used to have a time machine

Reav Hannari Red Rock Outriders 2626	Posted - 2014.01.18 03:41:00 - [11] - Quote The Caldari and Gallente scouts are geared up to fight each other. The Minmatar will have evolved their scout to specifically counter the Amarr. What aspect of an Amarr scouts makes sense to be the opposite of the Minmatar? // Venge Captain // Matari Logistics / Scout / Pilot // @ReesNoturana
Vell0cet SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 800	Posted - 2014.01.18 03:49:00 - [12] - Quote Make them sabotage specialists: 5%/level to stamina and 10%/level to vehicles damage on remote explosives/proxi mines. Edit: uplinks should be a Logi bonus. It's stupid to have 2 types of suits with the same bonus. Quick/Dirty Test Range Idea
Reav Hannari Red Rock Outriders 2626	Posted - 2014.01.18 03:54:00 - [13] - Quote If the Matari scout is about covert, guerrilla operations maybe the Amarr should be overt, bringing the light of God to the unclean. Since their logistics will be specializing in uplinks maybe the scout should instead be a combat oriented scout specializing in scrambler tech. Headshot bonus for assassination? Take the already deadly scrambler weapons and really amp up the single, aimed shot potential? This relates to the backstabbing nature of the Matari knifers. // Venge Captain // Matari Logistics / Scout / Pilot // @ReesNoturana
Reav Hannari Red Rock Outriders 2626	Posted - 2014.01.18 03:55:00 - [14] - Quote Vell0cet wrote: Make them sabotage specialists: 5%/level to stamina and 10%/level to vehicles damage on remote explosives/proxi mines. Edit: uplinks should be a Logi bonus. It's stupid to have 2 types of suits with the same bonus. Sabotage is the Minmatar domain. // Venge Captain // Matari Logistics / Scout / Pilot // @ReesNoturana
Bojo The Mighty L.O.T.I.S. 2755	Posted - 2014.01.18 03:55:00 - [15] - Quote Reav Hannari wrote: If the Matari scout is about covert, guerrilla operations maybe the Amarr should be overt, bringing the light of God to the unclean. Since their logistics will be specializing in uplinks maybe the scout should instead be a combat oriented scout specializing in scrambler tech. Headshot bonus for assassination? Take the already deadly scrambler weapons and really amp up the single, aimed shot potential? This relates to the backstabbing nature of the Matari knifers. Headshot damage multiplier would be interesting Check out latest BSOTT Guide
Reav Hannari Red Rock Outriders 2626	Posted - 2014.01.18 03:59:00 - [16] - Quote What is the current headshot bonus with scramblers? // Venge Captain // Matari Logistics / Scout / Pilot // @ReesNoturana
Vell0cet SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 800	Posted - 2014.01.18 04:03:00 - [17] - Quote Reav Hannari wrote: Vell0cet wrote: Make them sabotage specialists: 5%/level to stamina and 10%/level to vehicles damage on remote explosives/proxi mines. Edit: uplinks should be a Logi bonus. It's stupid to have 2 types of suits with the same bonus. Sabotage is the Minmatar domain. So is hacking and assassination apparently. The Amarr scout needs some interesting role besides being able to run very slowly for a long timeGÇª Quick/Dirty Test Range Idea
Reav Hannari Red Rock Outriders 2626	Posted - 2014.01.18 04:06:00 - [18] - Quote Vell0cet wrote: Reav Hannari wrote: Vell0cet wrote: Make them sabotage specialists: 5%/level to stamina and 10%/level to vehicles damage on remote explosives/proxi mines. Edit: uplinks should be a Logi bonus. It's stupid to have 2 types of suits with the same bonus. Sabotage is the Minmatar domain. So is hacking and assassination apparently. The Amarr scout needs some interesting role besides being able to run very slowly for a long timeGÇª Here I am, trying to come up with something for my sworn enemy to be proud of. // Venge Captain // Matari Logistics / Scout / Pilot // @ReesNoturana
Fizzer94 L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1367	Posted - 2014.01.18 04:11:00 - [19] - Quote Scheneighnay McBob wrote: You have to realize that every race actually has their specific playstyle- that's alot of the fun of making racial themed alts/squads. Amarr are really the slow-and-steady race which, when used correctly, makes a rock-solid frontline that may have trouble advancing. With that, amarr scouts would focus on placing uplinks to help the frontliners move more efficiently. They should probably have some bonus to using uplinks. Okay, why don't we just remove Amarr Logis from the game then while we're at it... Its not enough that we get a crappy racial bonus in 1.8, but now we should have to compete with the scouts for it? Yours Truly, Reginald Fizzer94 Delafontaine III, Esquire
Vell0cet SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 800	Posted - 2014.01.18 04:19:00 - [20] - Quote Reav Hannari wrote: Vell0cet wrote: Reav Hannari wrote: Vell0cet wrote: Make them sabotage specialists: 5%/level to stamina and 10%/level to vehicles damage on remote explosives/proxi mines. Edit: uplinks should be a Logi bonus. It's stupid to have 2 types of suits with the same bonus. Sabotage is the Minmatar domain. So is hacking and assassination apparently. The Amarr scout needs some interesting role besides being able to run very slowly for a long timeGÇª Here I am, trying to come up with something for my sworn enemy to be proud of. Sabotage makes sense to me. It's in the "wheelhouse" of the scout, and since the minmatar already have great bonuses (and aren't using them), I'm sure we can bend the lore to make it viable. Headshot bonuses on scrambler pistols doesn't feel right. A Minja can run through a squad of people and knife them to pieces in a few short seconds, I really wouldn't expect anything remotely similar with head shots on the scrambler pistol. It's too similar to a very fragile assault suit. Quick/Dirty Test Range Idea

Reav Hannari Red Rock Outriders 2627	Posted - 2014.01.18 04:24:00 - [21] - Quote I think I gave my best idea. The Amarr are fairly one dimensional. Absorb damage and deal it. Their scouts could be hit men. Cloak up, aim and shoot in the head. Where the Minmatar have to fight dirty to throw off the yoke of their slave masters the Amarr simply execute those that refuse to convert in a very cold and calculated manner. // Venge Captain // Matari Logistics / Scout / Pilot // @ReesNoturana
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 3193	Posted - 2014.01.18 05:00:00 - [22] - Quote Bojo The Mighty wrote: Nocturnal Soul wrote: Bojo The Mighty wrote: 1 is like meh 2 goes against nature 3 would honestly be ungodly OP Just leave the current skill y'all be sprintin' for days But its so lame it at least needs to be between an Adv and Com mod to even be worth something. But I'll still use it though because what ever happens to it I'll still love my baby. Like I told KING CHECKMATE Consider the costs of the basic cardiac regulator. 5 PG. I mean the range amps cost 25 CPU at proto. But 5 PG is a ton for a basic module that also gives 2 bonuses in one module. Cardiac Regulators are Hoggish modules and if you make the skill bonus surpass ADV you are basically getting like what 10+ PG for free? A basic cardio regulator is 5 cpu 4 pg (not 5 pg). I'll assume you already know that the Minmatar module "value" far outstrips a basic cardio, even with just the hacking bonus. One complex codebreaker is 45 cpu 11 pg, if you add up sets of Complex damage mods (or the suit's extra 5% to hacking...) Range Amps aren't the meat of the bonuses of the other scouts. In either case, 25% bonus to range is a STD range amp, 15 cpu free mod for both. The true value there is the free slot more likely than not, as that's not something people would fit. 25% Profile dampening is 33cpu for a complex module. 25% Profile precision doesn't exist in-game (complex is 20% for 26 cpu... a complex + basic (18 cpu, 10%) would be a bit closer). The module total would look more like 48 cpu gallente (and two slots) and 50-59cpu for the caldari (and 2-3 slots because a complex precision is less than the bonus) I'm not sure where you're getting the bit about the skill bonus to surpass ADV? At rank V, the Amarr Scout has LESS than a Basic Cardiac regulator. Max skill is not even getting you the equivalent of a single basic module. It's certainly not getting anything like over 10 pg "for free". You're not even getting the full value of a module that cost 4 pg. On the subject of pg vs. cpu. It's already not an even field because the suits stats vary. A Gallente suit has the most PG, for example. Minmatar has the highest CPU, followed by Caldari. If you average the values of the suits, the ratio of pg to cpu is a little over 5. So each 1 pg is worth about 5 cpu. Given that, the Gallente bonus is about 9-10 pg. The Caldari is about 10-12pg. The Minmatar is basically another dropsuit. The cost of the basic regulator is 5 pg if you add the 5 cpu to the 4 pg, or half the value of the next lowest bonus. That's ignoring the fact that the basic regulator would only take one slot, that the amarr bonus is LESS than a basic regulator, and that the other racial bonuses save more slots than the Amarr's does. Join my cult.
Bojo The Mighty L.O.T.I.S. 2763	Posted - 2014.01.18 05:07:00 - [23] - Quote Zeylon Rho wrote: A basic cardio regulator is 5 cpu 4 pg (not 5 pg). I'll assume you already know that the Minmatar module "value" far outstrips a basic cardio, even with just the hacking bonus. One complex codebreaker is 45 cpu 11 pg, if you add up sets of Complex damage mods (or the suit's extra 5% to hacking...) Range Amps aren't the meat of the bonuses of the other scouts. In either case, 25% bonus to range is a STD range amp, 15 cpu free mod for both. The true value there is the free slot more likely than not, as that's not something people would fit. 25% Profile dampening is 33cpu for a complex module. 25% Profile precision doesn't exist in-game (complex is 20% for 26 cpu... a complex + basic (18 cpu, 10%) would be a bit closer). The module total would look more like 48 cpu gallente (and two slots) and 50-59cpu for the caldari (and 2-3 slots because a complex precision is less than the bonus) I'm not sure where you're getting the bit about the skill bonus to surpass ADV? At rank V, the Amarr Scout has LESS than a Basic Cardiac regulator. Max skill is not even getting you the equivalent of a single basic module. It's certainly not getting anything like over 10 pg "for free". You're not even getting the full value of a module that cost 4 pg. On the subject of pg vs. cpu. It's already not an even field because the suits stats vary. A Gallente suit has the most PG, for example. Minmatar has the highest CPU, followed by Caldari. If you average the values of the suits, the ratio of pg to cpu is a little over 5. So each 1 pg is worth about 5 cpu. Given that, the Gallente bonus is about 9-10 pg. The Caldari is about 10-12pg. The Minmatar is basically another dropsuit. The cost of the basic regulator is 5 pg if you add the 5 cpu to the 4 pg, or half the value of the next lowest bonus. That's ignoring the fact that the basic regulator would only take one slot, that the amarr bonus is LESS than a basic regulator, and that the other racial bonuses save more slots than the Amarr's does. The Minmatar bonus went right over my head and good point on the slots. However when something takes up 4 pg in one slot at basic it can put your PG at risk on a low PG suit because it's a good chunk of PG for just one slot, not as bad as kincats but it's up there especially militia because they give the same bonus %. Plus it (the amarr scout) innately has the highest Stamina stats so the bonus is even greater by numerical value. Check out latest BSOTT Guide
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 3194	Posted - 2014.01.18 05:28:00 - [24] - Quote Nocturnal Soul wrote: Here I'm going to make a list of all the possibilities of a new bonus. Primary: Increased ammo clip size. 5% to kin cat effectiveness. 2% to Scp rate of fire. Secondary: 5% to stamina regain rate and max. I like the stamina bonus, I just figure it should be equivalent to a complex module, like the other classes get. That's 20% max and recharge per level. I like clip size. More-so I like Scrambler-clip size. A flat boost to ammo (+2 to Laser weapon clip-size or the like) would go aways to making things like the burst scrambler more useful. In the spirit of the Minmatar bonus being very very specific; it seems like a combat-focused Amarr bonus should be similar. Like +x clip size to Scrambler Pistols, Scram weapons (the rifles don't really need it honestly), etc. I say Scrams because it's a racial weapon mostly. I have concerns that most straight damage bonuses (on any suit) can be pretty unbalancing. Another option is a slight range boost. Rate of fire is sketchy. For most laser weapons isn't helpful at all (part of the assault complaints). The semi-auto weapons already fire about as fast as you can tap the trigger (and overheat too). The laser wouldn't see any change because it's constant. It only really helps the Assault Scrambler, which is an odd niche to boost for the Scout. Heat build or feedback damage related bonuses aren't great for similar reasons as the Scout isn't the best laser user (makes a squishy's suit location obvious), and your're back to a bonus for a single weapon (semi scram) at that point. Kinetic cat effectiveness (or bonus to suit sprint speed) would both be ok. A 1% sprint speed per level bonus sort of bit would be equivalent to the bonus you get from the Biotics skill itself (but without the stamina mods). 2% sprint speed gets questionable because a Complex Kinetic cat is only a 12% bonus (since the range is 5-12), and 10% is pretty high considering. Kinetic cat effectiveness is a more limited buff because it would require slotting a module (modules that have pretty steep fitting reqs even at base). On the note of fitting, you could have useful bonuses in that respect. An Amarr logi might be reasonably concerned that a scout bonus to links would make their Droplink bonuses less useful. However, if the only bonus a scout gets is to fitting the links specifically, than the Logi-links bonuses would still make them superior. Similarly, compensating for the slower speed of the suit is something of a concern, since the Amarr Scout is slower than an Minmatar Assault (but also squishier than the weakest assault suit). So, it's possible a fitting bonus to kinetic catalyzers could be useful. So, summing up: 20% Max Stamina and recharge rate per level (Complex Cardio at V) AND +1/2 clip size for Scramblers per level or +2 meters to the effective and falloff range of Scrambler Weapons (perhaps just pistols) per level or 1% Sprint Speed per level or 6% reduction to CPU/PG requirements of Droplinks per level or 8-10% reduction to CPU/PG requirements of Kinetic Catalyzers per level or 5% bonus to Kin-cat effectiveness per level Those all seem like pretty good options to me. Mind you, I'm looking more at parity with the Minmatar Scout than the other two here, because their secondary bonuses could also use a boost in light of the relative strength of the Minny's. Join my cult.
Iskandar Zul Karnain Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 2526	Posted - 2014.01.18 05:49:00 - [25] - Quote Scrap the marathon bonus and pick something interesting like a cloaking or damage bonus. Headshot bonus and laser weapon heat build up please. HellsGÇáorm, Director Bringing the Wrath of God down on the Matari since YC114
Ludvig Enraga KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 830	Posted - 2014.01.18 05:56:00 - [26] - Quote Reav Hannari wrote: Yeah, make it complex level at scout 5. There has to be something more interesting than stamina though. Stamina is very improtant. Same as scan range. If you got that built in it actually makes you very versatile untying your hands to use priceless low modules to w/e you need or want. Now compare to Min scout: +5 hacking - lol wut? half the maps have nothing to hack. Oh, sht! I just learned you can make a signature! Thanks, CCP! Forums are getting better!
Oswald Rehnquist 1116	Posted - 2014.01.18 06:31:00 - [27] - Quote Why not a % bonus to the hp of ferroscale armor? Below 28 dB
Lavirac JR DUST University Ivy League 163	Posted - 2014.01.18 11:09:00 - [28] - Quote Here is my thought, Minmatar Scouts get close and personal with blades, well Amarr scouts should be the opposite, they should be distance fighters. Back in the day the sharp shooting skill boosted suit's range with every weapon, that was OP. Now this specific suit, which would not be over powered with a range bonus, should get +5% maximum effective/optimal range for laser weapons per level. The suit is weak enough HP wise to make it not want to be in the front lines, but the range and scoutness of the suit helps it pick off enemies on the periphery of the battle. I think that bonus would give Amarr scout a decent role without taking on the role of another suit. A would be logi looking for heavies in all the wrong places.
True Adamance Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire 5875	Posted - 2014.01.18 11:14:00 - [29] - Quote Bojo The Mighty wrote: 1 is like meh 2 goes against nature 3 would honestly be ungodly OP Just leave the current skill y'all be sprintin' for days Doesn't matter. If other suits are getting the equivalent of a complex module as their bonus the Amarr deserve the equivalent of one as well. Either that or the other racial groups do not deserve that complex bonus and should have their bonuses brought in line with that of the Amarr scouts. As far as I am aware the Minmatar get a 25% faster hack, and 25% Nova Knife Damage bonus. The equivalent of a basic Cardiac Regulator does not come close to being balanced against that. Or perhaps we should consider the Gallente suit, which to my knowledge gets a slightly better than complex Profile Dampener, and an ADV Armour repper. Again a basic Cardiac regulator is not equivalent. Even with our higher base stamina and HP values. "My Faith in you is absolute; my sword is Yours, My God, and Your will guides me now and for all eternity."
Ryder Azorria Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 829	Posted - 2014.01.18 11:18:00 - [30] - Quote Hmmm... How about keep (or increase) the existing bonus while adding a bonus that reduces the speed penalty from armour plates.



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