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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
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67
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Posted - 2014.01.19 01:43:00 -
[1] - Quote
An idea to solve the current inter scout disparity would be to modify the current base stats of the scouts, and then implement a better bonus for the amarr scout. First off, buff the base move/sprint speed for all scout suits buy 3%, except for the min which would get 5%, to enhance its role as the fastest scout on the field. Then, give all scouts an inherent stamina bonus of 5% to maximum/recharge rate, except for the amarr scout which would get a 50% stamina bonus to max and recharge rate. This way, the amarr scout is now faster than a ninny assault, and has by far the most stamina of any unit in the game. Then, give the amarr scout a very specialized bonus, I was thinking +10% to scrambler pistol magazine capacity per level, this way equally affecting breach, assault and bust variants. It would be very similar to the minmitar nova knife bonus, probably even better, due to how hard nova knives are to use. Also, a correction to the argument that the nova knife damage is equal to 3 complex modules needs an update. Heres my reasoning-
10% damage per damage module+stacking penalty=3 damage modules gives roughly 25% damage
Now lets see how many sidearms there are-FP, ScrP, NK's, SMG, (soon to be magsec, bolt, and ion pistol)=4+3 future sidearms.
25/4=a little more than 6, therefore the nova knife damage bonus, universally, is really only equal to a little more than one enhanced damage mod (5%), as it only affects nova knives, which are arguably the most specialized weapon in the game.
please comment your ideas on my proposed system of buffs for the amarr scout 
Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives.
https://dust514.com/recruit/k3vMnb/
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
TRA1LBLAZERS
67
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Posted - 2014.01.19 01:45:00 -
[2] - Quote
Aero Yassavi wrote:True Adamance wrote:
While fair..... I find the bonus redundant. We already have a 450% bonus to head shot damage, for a rather specific act as a natural part of the weapon.
I don't really think more damage is required from the Scarmbler Pistol Headshot bonus.
Agreed True. And can you imagine how that'd get abused with people firing while cloaked? The best bonus would be something to do with scouting. Perhaps more sprint speed per level.
I really don't like the idea of more sprint speed per level, as that would nullify the role of the minmitar scout as being the go to unit for maximum speed. I think a bonus to scrambler pistol mag cap would be good, in addition to an inherent 25-50% bonus to base stamina/stamina regen.
Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives.
https://dust514.com/recruit/k3vMnb/
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
TRA1LBLAZERS
67
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Posted - 2014.01.19 01:57:00 -
[3] - Quote
Aero Yassavi wrote:Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:Aero Yassavi wrote:True Adamance wrote:
While fair..... I find the bonus redundant. We already have a 450% bonus to head shot damage, for a rather specific act as a natural part of the weapon.
I don't really think more damage is required from the Scarmbler Pistol Headshot bonus.
Agreed True. And can you imagine how that'd get abused with people firing while cloaked? The best bonus would be something to do with scouting. Perhaps more sprint speed per level. I really don't like the idea of more sprint speed per level, as that would nullify the role of the minmitar scout as being the go to unit for maximum speed. I think a bonus to scrambler pistol mag cap would be good, in addition to an inherent 25-50% bonus to base stamina/stamina regen. Well I said sprint speed, not movement speed. Minmatar would still be better movers, as well as better hackers and slasher, but I understand what you're saying. Scrambler pistol mag cap would not be a good bonus in my opinion because that is already the Scrambler Pistol Operations bonus.
Do you agree with my previous post about boosting inherent scout bionics, and then switching the amarr bonus? I think that would really even out the inter-scout playing field more than anything else. but just for reference, with maxed out ScrP operation, there is only an 11 bullet mag (on a non-variant type), with maxed out amarr soil, we would see this go up to 16 or 17 bullets, which is enough to easily kill any suit with no head shots, and with head shots, preform even better. But i feel if the min scout gets gibber by having a nova knife bonus, which is THE most specialized bonus in the game, its opposing race, the amarr, should get an equally specialized bonus.
Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives.
https://dust514.com/recruit/k3vMnb/
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
TRA1LBLAZERS
69
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Posted - 2014.01.19 02:28:00 -
[4] - Quote
Update to my current idea for scram pistol bonus-
introduce a cloaking bonus to uplinks, so that at proto level, uplinks are invisible to all except a proto focused active scanner, making people have to manually hunt for them, allowing the ammar scout to discreetly open pathways to assaulting positions, all the while getting a huge wp bonus for doing so. One of the main roles of the scout is to run uplinks, and the ammar would fill this roll better than any class in the game with its increased stamina, and solacing bonus to uplinks.
Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives.
https://dust514.com/recruit/k3vMnb/
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
TRA1LBLAZERS
74
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Posted - 2014.01.19 03:01:00 -
[5] - Quote
Reav Hannari wrote:There are some interesting ideas here but I think the core concept that must be decided is what is the role for this suit. We know that Gal and Cal are going head to head in stealth warfare. Should the Amarr compete against the Minmatar guerrillas or will they do their own thing? What roles are open to scouts of any race?
Recon? Seems like the Gal and Cal roles.
Pathfinder? Seems like a good idea but overlaps with Amarr logistics. Maybe that suit is in the wrong role and the uplink focus should switch to this one. This has been mentioned a few times and I do agree. What would the focus of the logistics be if the scout took over uplinks?
Assassin? The role of the Minmatar but head to head stealth slayers does appeal to me as I've already suggested. I just don't know how to provide an appropriate bonus.
Guerrilla fighter? Not their style.
Sniper? The Amarr don't have a native sniper weapon yet. Maybe provide something generic for long range engagements.
Game design is hard.
The idea with the uplinks is that they don't replace the logi role, but instead are a different type of uplink placer, as they open a gateway for discreet assault on a position, without the enemy knowing
Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives.
https://dust514.com/recruit/k3vMnb/
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
TRA1LBLAZERS
74
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Posted - 2014.01.19 03:09:00 -
[6] - Quote
Reav Hannari wrote:Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:The idea with the uplinks is that they don't replace the logi role, but instead are a different type of uplink placer, as they open a gateway for discreet assault on a position, without the enemy knowing Seems legit to me. Maybe combine it with another bonus such as an improved stamina than currently suggested.
I made another post in here on pg. 4 that was about boosting inherent scout biotics. Ill edit it into my reply for easy reading
EDIT: here it is
An idea to solve the current inter scout disparity would be to modify the current base stats of the scouts, and then implement a better bonus for the amarr scout. First off, buff the base move/sprint speed for all scout suits buy 3%, except for the min which would get 5%, to enhance its role as the fastest scout on the field. Then, give all scouts an inherent stamina bonus of 5% to maximum/recharge rate, except for the amarr scout which would get a 50% stamina bonus to max and recharge rate. This way, the amarr scout is now faster than a ninny assault, and has by far the most stamina of any unit in the game.
Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives.
https://dust514.com/recruit/k3vMnb/
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
TRA1LBLAZERS
77
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Posted - 2014.01.19 04:10:00 -
[7] - Quote
Summ Dude wrote:Reav Hannari wrote:Summ Dude wrote:Reav Hannari wrote:
The scouts become the flanking escort (aka outriders) for the for the assaults and heavies picking off those that attempt to flee using their range optimization subsystems? When they encounter resistance then the main force moves into deal with it.
"I'm not running you down, slave. I'll just burn you from here."
Escort role. Interesting idea.
Now that's something I can definitely get behind. Edit: So now what kind of bonus would help cement the role of picking of the stragglers? Increase range so they don't have to run them down? I'm not sure that is in the current game code and we don't want it delayed. I also like the suggestions from earlier for either increasing the efficacy of the ferroscale plates or removing the speed penalty of normal plates. The Amarr are all about armor buffer. The benefit of their scout is retaining movement speed without losing that ability. Since the scout should be well ahead or to the flank of logistics you don't want them to have to return for repairs or waiting in cover for slow armor repair to do its thing. So keep the current stamina bonuses, and then a reduction to armor plate movement penalty, enough so that at level 5 they experience none even from complex? This could really make them the ultimate distance runners, while still keeping that Amarr armor resiliency. And it definitely works with them being on the outside flanks of lines, chasing down any would-be runners. This might just be my new favorite.
I also think there should be some penalty, like 2% at proto level. But thats just because they provide so much health with no real consequences
Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives.
https://dust514.com/recruit/k3vMnb/
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
TRA1LBLAZERS
80
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Posted - 2014.01.19 21:27:00 -
[8] - Quote
Reav Hannari wrote:We don't have to address the pure scout part of the Amarr suit. The attributes and ability to efficiently carry a cloak give them their disruptive ability. What we are trying to help CCP decide on is that little bit extra to give them their personality.
Is pure stamina enough? Boring but useful if the values are increased. Assassination using their native weapon? Already very powerful but a possibility. Ability to stand toe to toe with a heavier frame once the cloak drops? Could be very useful. Drop uplinks to bring in friends? Sure, sounds good.
What extra bonus makes them disruptive in Amarr style?
Drop uplink cloaking. There. Boom. Problem solved
Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives.
https://dust514.com/recruit/k3vMnb/
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
TRA1LBLAZERS
80
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Posted - 2014.01.19 21:34:00 -
[9] - Quote
Ghost Kaisar wrote:Summ Dude wrote:Reav Hannari wrote:Summ Dude wrote:Reav Hannari wrote:
The scouts become the flanking escort (aka outriders) for the for the assaults and heavies picking off those that attempt to flee using their range optimization subsystems? When they encounter resistance then the main force moves into deal with it.
"I'm not running you down, slave. I'll just burn you from here."
Escort role. Interesting idea.
Now that's something I can definitely get behind. Edit: So now what kind of bonus would help cement the role of picking of the stragglers? Increase range so they don't have to run them down? I'm not sure that is in the current game code and we don't want it delayed. I also like the suggestions from earlier for either increasing the efficacy of the ferroscale plates or removing the speed penalty of normal plates. The Amarr are all about armor buffer. The benefit of their scout is retaining movement speed without losing that ability. Since the scout should be well ahead or to the flank of logistics you don't want them to have to return for repairs or waiting in cover for slow armor repair to do its thing. So keep the current stamina bonuses, and then a reduction to armor plate movement penalty, enough so that at level 5 they experience none even from complex? This could really make them the ultimate distance runners, while still keeping that Amarr armor resiliency. And it definitely works with them being on the outside flanks of lines, chasing down any would-be runners. This might just be my new favorite. Minmatar Scout here. I approve of this. In my head, the Amarr is supposed to be tough and inevitable. I will sprint at almost 10.38m/s, but I have very little stamina. The Amarr scout will have MUCH more eHP and will always be hunting me. Eventually, I will have to turn and fight. I better have an ambush ready, cause there is no way my 350 eHP suit will be able to take you on in a head on fight.
Easy- increase minmitar base speed by 5%, amarr (and all other scout races) speed by 3%, increase minmitar (and other scout races) base stamina and stamina regen by 5%, increase amarr stamina and stamina regen by 50%, then switch their skill bonus to 15% to deployed drop uplink profile dampening per level, making them invisible to all except proto focused scanners on a proto gallogi for scanning, forcing them to be hunted manually, and allowing a scout like drop uplink bonus for a large backside flanking attack, in typical amarr style (drop uplinks)
Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives.
https://dust514.com/recruit/k3vMnb/
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
TRA1LBLAZERS
80
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Posted - 2014.01.19 21:36:00 -
[10] - Quote
Nocturnal Soul wrote:Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:Reav Hannari wrote:We don't have to address the pure scout part of the Amarr suit. The attributes and ability to efficiently carry a cloak give them their disruptive ability. What we are trying to help CCP decide on is that little bit extra to give them their personality.
Is pure stamina enough? Boring but useful if the values are increased. Assassination using their native weapon? Already very powerful but a possibility. Ability to stand toe to toe with a heavier frame once the cloak drops? Could be very useful. Drop uplinks to bring in friends? Sure, sounds good.
What extra bonus makes them disruptive in Amarr style? Drop uplink cloaking. There. Boom. Problem solved The logi is more suited for the uplink bonus
The logo uplink bonus increases the efficiency of uplinks, which is good for allowing a force to assault from the front lines, but the scouts bonus would allow for a multi man flanking attack for which no one knows where it is coming from.
Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives.
https://dust514.com/recruit/k3vMnb/
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
TRA1LBLAZERS
80
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Posted - 2014.01.19 22:36:00 -
[11] - Quote
Vell0cet wrote:Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:The logi uplink bonus increases the efficiency of uplinks, which is good for allowing a force to assault from the front lines, but the scouts bonus would allow for a multi man flanking attack for which no one knows where it is coming from. While this does solve the problem of having a distinction between the logi and scout uplink roles, there are a few downsides. The most significant is that it may require significant changes to the code for uplinks which is undesirable for a number of reasons (performance, chance of new bugs, delays in release, etc.). Also it would make the Amarr scout more of a support role, while the other 3 races have significant combat-oriented bonuses (yes scanning and dampening are very helpful in combat). It's also not all that exciting of a role. Logis really are the backbone support roles, making the Amarr scout into a fragile uplink logi (even with sneaker uplinks) is less interesting than some of other suggestions from a gameplay perspective IMO. It's a role some will fill for sure, but designing a 2nd suit around uplink spamming seems like uninspired game design.
I don't think so. If i were coding the game code, I wouldn't add a new value type to the class drop uplink, but instead have the bonus function independent of the actual drop uplink's class, as it currently (i don't believe) does not have a scan profile, using basic if statements to relate the level to active scanner db, and if it passed the db testing, prevent the uplink from going into the scanning output function. Its a really basic addition of code, probably less than 100 lines even.
Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives.
https://dust514.com/recruit/k3vMnb/
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
TRA1LBLAZERS
81
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Posted - 2014.01.19 23:33:00 -
[12] - Quote
Vell0cet wrote:
The code would be cleaner if they added a signatureProfile property to the Uplink class instead of exception checking each link everytime it's scanned (by players passive scanning and active scanners). But that's a code style debate and pretty far off topic for this discussion. What's your objection to a cloaking bonus? This one feels like you've ruled everything else out and this was all that's left.
I think that if it were a cloaking bonus, i would like it to be cloak duration, or something like that, and couple it with the cloaked uplinks. Double whammy right there
Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives.
https://dust514.com/recruit/k3vMnb/
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
TRA1LBLAZERS
100
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Posted - 2014.01.20 21:30:00 -
[13] - Quote
Nocturnal Soul wrote:Zeylon Rho wrote:A droplink bonus to their function minimalizes the logi bonus (assuming that IS still the logi bonus, which we don't know).
However, a fitting bonus to links specifically could be useful, since droplinks can be a little hard to fit compared to other equipment - and the droplinks wouldn't have the "improved" stat bit like the Logi. It seems like with the improved fitting stats and slots on the scouts, something like that wouldn't really be necessary though.
I think a better-than-current stamina bonus and ScP clip-size is my favorite of the currently suggested bonuses as far as being reasonable. Swapping the clip-size with sprint speed, range bonuses, etc. is a bit more questionable balance-wise. I hate it when people say give the amarr scout a bonus to uplinks its just redundant
How? If you ever run uplinks on a scout, you would know that there are two types of uplinks. One is for a discrete placement behind enemy lines, and the other is to hold a position, with a massive clone count on the uplinks to be available to be spawned in. If you gave the amarr scout an uplink cloaking bonus, it would help its scoutly role. I don't understand what is wrong with this bonus, as every other scout class gets a similar bonus to a scoutly role
Minmitar-Hacking and assassination
Gallente-Staying off the radar for all sorts of scoutly mischief
Caldari-Able to track down, hunt, and kill all types of suits, including scouts
Amarr- MAssive stamina should provide it with a bonus to running uplinks, which is probably the scouts biggest role.
While the logo can spam uplinks to hold an objective, the amarr logi is the slowest non heavy suit in the game, making running drop uplinks irrelevant for their suit. The amarr scout is going to be the best suit in the game for covering long distances, so replace the skill bonus per level to an inherent base bonus and give the amarr uplink cloaking. If you gave them this, i would probably spec into an amarr scout just for the better uplink running.
Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives.
https://dust514.com/recruit/k3vMnb/
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
TRA1LBLAZERS
100
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Posted - 2014.01.20 22:21:00 -
[14] - Quote
Magnus Amadeuss wrote:
Minmatar bonuses = 5 free modules (4 proto type and 1 basic)
Gallente bonuses = 3 free modules (1 proto 1 adv 1 basic)
Caldari bonuses = 3 free modules (1 proto 2 basic)
Amarr bonuses = 0.66 free modules (2/3rds of a basic module)
This is an imbalance that needs to be equalized.
Minmitar does not receive 4 proto modules, they only receive one (hacking). Saying that the knife bonus is equal to 3 proto damage mods is poor reasoning, and i respectfully disagree with it. If it was a 5% damage bonus to sidearms per level, then i would agree but its not, so you have to do the math like this
25% damage bonus is about equal to 3 proto modules
now that is assuming that this bonus affects all sidearms, where in reality it affects only one, which also happens to be the most situational weapon in the game.
So, we will divide this 25% bonus by the number of total sidearms which is currently 4, but is soon to be 7, in the new patch
25/7=about 3.6, rounding up. This is just barely more effective than a militia grade damage module. Also, if you believe this bonus is overpowered for minja's, I would invite you to run nova knives only, no sidearm, and see how well that works for you. I feel that if people who are complaint that the minmitar scout is OP actually used nova knives, they would feel differently about it.
Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives.
https://dust514.com/recruit/k3vMnb/
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
TRA1LBLAZERS
100
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Posted - 2014.01.20 22:35:00 -
[15] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Fitting score of preinstalled modules is as is
AK. 28
GK 24.5
MK 26.25
CK 26.5
What?
Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives.
https://dust514.com/recruit/k3vMnb/
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
TRA1LBLAZERS
108
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Posted - 2014.01.21 20:01:00 -
[16] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:
Actually, LESS than one. Since a MLT CArdiac regulator surpasses amarr bonus.
Again, i want this CCP:
AMARR SCOUT
GÖª 5% to max stamina & Stamina regen + 5% Reduction to heat buildup on laser weaponry per level.
If your argument is that the bonus is equivalent to less than 1 MLT module, instead of suggesting a replacement for the bonus becoming the most overpowered bonus in the game (don't argue with me, you know that it is true), instead suggest a 15% bonus to the aforementioned stats instead of 5%.
Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives.
https://dust514.com/recruit/k3vMnb/
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