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Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
3214
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Posted - 2014.01.19 04:02:00 -
[91] - Quote
Summ Dude wrote:Reav Hannari wrote:
The scouts become the flanking escort (aka outriders) for the for the assaults and heavies picking off those that attempt to flee using their range optimization subsystems? When they encounter resistance then the main force moves into deal with it.
"I'm not running you down, slave. I'll just burn you from here."
Escort role. Interesting idea.
Now that's something I can definitely get behind. Edit: So now what kind of bonus would help cement the role of picking of the stragglers?
Well, stamina/sprint to run after them. A range bonus would make it easier to hit them. Though a range bonus to scrambler rifles might be overpowered. A range bonus to scrambler pistols... possibly too niche? I'd like it, but I don't know if everyone likes the pistol.
I agree that the headshot bonus would be too much considering how high it is already. I prefer the expanded clip, as it makes weapons like the burst more useful, but is just generally useful too.
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Summ Dude
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
111
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Posted - 2014.01.19 04:04:00 -
[92] - Quote
Reav Hannari wrote:Summ Dude wrote:Reav Hannari wrote:
The scouts become the flanking escort (aka outriders) for the for the assaults and heavies picking off those that attempt to flee using their range optimization subsystems? When they encounter resistance then the main force moves into deal with it.
"I'm not running you down, slave. I'll just burn you from here."
Escort role. Interesting idea.
Now that's something I can definitely get behind. Edit: So now what kind of bonus would help cement the role of picking of the stragglers? Increase range so they don't have to run them down? I'm not sure that is in the current game code and we don't want it delayed. I also like the suggestions from earlier for either increasing the efficacy of the ferroscale plates or removing the speed penalty of normal plates. The Amarr are all about armor buffer. The benefit of their scout is retaining movement speed without losing that ability. Since the scout should be well ahead or to the flank of logistics you don't want them to have to return for repairs or waiting in cover for slow armor repair to do its thing.
So keep the current stamina bonuses, and then a reduction to armor plate movement penalty, enough so that at level 5 they experience none even from complex? This could really make them the ultimate distance runners, while still keeping that Amarr armor resiliency. And it definitely works with them being on the outside flanks of lines, chasing down any would-be runners. This might just be my new favorite.
Not just a laymen, but the laymen.
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Reav Hannari
Red Rock Outriders
2649
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Posted - 2014.01.19 04:07:00 -
[93] - Quote
Zeylon Rho wrote:Summ Dude wrote:Reav Hannari wrote:
The scouts become the flanking escort (aka outriders) for the for the assaults and heavies picking off those that attempt to flee using their range optimization subsystems? When they encounter resistance then the main force moves into deal with it.
"I'm not running you down, slave. I'll just burn you from here."
Escort role. Interesting idea.
Now that's something I can definitely get behind. Edit: So now what kind of bonus would help cement the role of picking of the stragglers? Well, stamina/sprint to run after them. A range bonus would make it easier to hit them. Though a range bonus to scrambler rifles might be overpowered. A range bonus to scrambler pistols... possibly too niche? I'd like it, but I don't know if everyone likes the pistol. I agree that the headshot bonus would be too much considering how high it is already. I prefer the expanded clip, as it makes weapons like the burst more useful, but is just generally useful too.
Back to stamina. That's funny. However, It would work if increased to match the complex green bottle at scout 5.
With the current headshot bonus you have to land at least two hits to match a set of fully charged Nova Knives. I agree that is not that difficult and a bonus may be too much. I had forgotten he scrambler headshot bonus was 450%.
I think my preference is still towards altering armor modules to be more appropriate for scouts to stick to their doctrine. It is the most durable scout with the currently proposed stats and letting it keep its lead after all of them start adding modules is not a bad thing. It would help with the light assault role that some want too.
// Venge Captain // Matari Logistics / Scout / Pilot // @ReesNoturana
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
TRA1LBLAZERS
77
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Posted - 2014.01.19 04:10:00 -
[94] - Quote
Summ Dude wrote:Reav Hannari wrote:Summ Dude wrote:Reav Hannari wrote:
The scouts become the flanking escort (aka outriders) for the for the assaults and heavies picking off those that attempt to flee using their range optimization subsystems? When they encounter resistance then the main force moves into deal with it.
"I'm not running you down, slave. I'll just burn you from here."
Escort role. Interesting idea.
Now that's something I can definitely get behind. Edit: So now what kind of bonus would help cement the role of picking of the stragglers? Increase range so they don't have to run them down? I'm not sure that is in the current game code and we don't want it delayed. I also like the suggestions from earlier for either increasing the efficacy of the ferroscale plates or removing the speed penalty of normal plates. The Amarr are all about armor buffer. The benefit of their scout is retaining movement speed without losing that ability. Since the scout should be well ahead or to the flank of logistics you don't want them to have to return for repairs or waiting in cover for slow armor repair to do its thing. So keep the current stamina bonuses, and then a reduction to armor plate movement penalty, enough so that at level 5 they experience none even from complex? This could really make them the ultimate distance runners, while still keeping that Amarr armor resiliency. And it definitely works with them being on the outside flanks of lines, chasing down any would-be runners. This might just be my new favorite.
I also think there should be some penalty, like 2% at proto level. But thats just because they provide so much health with no real consequences
Yes, I did kill Archduke Ferdinand. I used my nova knives.
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Reav Hannari
Red Rock Outriders
2649
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Posted - 2014.01.19 04:26:00 -
[95] - Quote
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:I also think there should be some penalty, like 2% at proto level. But thats just because they provide so much health with no real consequences
Fitting should naturally limit that but maybe limit the bonus to Ferroscale and Reactive. Instead, it could be a fitting bonus so penalties are still present but they are easier to squeeze on to the scout frame, especially with the high fitting requirements of the Ferroscale and Reactive.
// Venge Captain // Matari Logistics / Scout / Pilot // @ReesNoturana
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Reav Hannari
Red Rock Outriders
2649
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Posted - 2014.01.19 04:29:00 -
[96] - Quote
I'm trying to think of bonuses that can be added as an attribute in the database and doesn't require changing game code. It seems to expedite things dramatically. I'd have to dig through the SDE but I think a fitting bonus to all armor plates may be the easiest thing to do. Then increase the stamina bonus to something not sucky and you'll have the best defensive scout with the ability to run places, eventually.
// Venge Captain // Matari Logistics / Scout / Pilot // @ReesNoturana
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Summ Dude
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
111
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Posted - 2014.01.19 04:29:00 -
[97] - Quote
Reav Hannari wrote:Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:I also think there should be some penalty, like 2% at proto level. But thats just because they provide so much health with no real consequences Fitting should naturally limit that but maybe limit the bonus to Ferroscale and Reactive. Instead, it could be a fitting bonus so penalties are still present but they are easier to squeeze on to the scout frame, especially with the high fitting requirements of the Ferroscale and Reactive.
I don't know, maybe it's just me, but I feel like two bonuses to fitting is kinda meh. But I could understand still having some armor plate speed penalty at level 5, if only on the complex plates.
Not just a laymen, but the laymen.
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Nocturnal Soul
Immortal Retribution
1640
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Posted - 2014.01.19 05:03:00 -
[98] - Quote
Reav Hannari wrote:I'm trying to think of bonuses that can be added as an attribute in the database and doesn't require changing game code. It seems to expedite things dramatically. I'd have to dig through the SDE but I think a fitting bonus to all armor plates may be the easiest thing to do. Then increase the stamina bonus to something not sucky and you'll have the best defensive scout with the ability to run places, eventually. I like you, you understand the Amarr.
"The trick to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources..." Albert Einstein
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Reav Hannari
Red Rock Outriders
2650
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Posted - 2014.01.19 05:10:00 -
[99] - Quote
Nocturnal Soul wrote:Reav Hannari wrote:I'm trying to think of bonuses that can be added as an attribute in the database and doesn't require changing game code. It seems to expedite things dramatically. I'd have to dig through the SDE but I think a fitting bonus to all armor plates may be the easiest thing to do. Then increase the stamina bonus to something not sucky and you'll have the best defensive scout with the ability to run places, eventually. I like you, you understand the Amarr.
Know thy enemy.
// Venge Captain // Matari Logistics / Scout / Pilot // @ReesNoturana
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Bojo The Mighty
L.O.T.I.S.
2787
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Posted - 2014.01.19 05:25:00 -
[100] - Quote
What if the suit was just given a 1.2 Ferroscale multiplier
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Nocturnal Soul
Immortal Retribution
1640
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Posted - 2014.01.19 05:27:00 -
[101] - Quote
Bojo The Mighty wrote:What if the suit was just given a 1.2 Ferroscale multiplier Care to elaborate on that
"The trick to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources..." Albert Einstein
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Bojo The Mighty
L.O.T.I.S.
2787
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Posted - 2014.01.19 05:29:00 -
[102] - Quote
Nocturnal Soul wrote:Bojo The Mighty wrote:What if the suit was just given a 1.2 Ferroscale multiplier Care to elaborate on that Um well it multiplies the HP given by Ferroscale plates by 1.2 and it's built in to the suit rather than a skill
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Nocturnal Soul
Immortal Retribution
1640
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Posted - 2014.01.19 05:31:00 -
[103] - Quote
Bojo The Mighty wrote:Nocturnal Soul wrote:Bojo The Mighty wrote:What if the suit was just given a 1.2 Ferroscale multiplier Care to elaborate on that Um well it multiplies the HP given by Ferroscale plates by 1.2 and it's built in to the suit rather than a skill I like it but if its not a skill/bonus then what's the point of it?
"The trick to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources..." Albert Einstein
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Bojo The Mighty
L.O.T.I.S.
2787
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Posted - 2014.01.19 05:34:00 -
[104] - Quote
Nocturnal Soul wrote:Bojo The Mighty wrote: Um well it multiplies the HP given by Ferroscale plates by 1.2 and it's built in to the suit rather than a skill
I like it but if its not a skill/bonus then what's the point of it? All scouts have a 1.1 hack multiplier - the point being letting all scouts hack faster regardless of level The point would be to give a 20% bonus to Ferroscale plates regardless of level
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Nocturnal Soul
Immortal Retribution
1640
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Posted - 2014.01.19 05:48:00 -
[105] - Quote
Bojo The Mighty wrote:Nocturnal Soul wrote:Bojo The Mighty wrote: Um well it multiplies the HP given by Ferroscale plates by 1.2 and it's built in to the suit rather than a skill
I like it but if its not a skill/bonus then what's the point of it? All scouts have a 1.1 hack multiplier - the point being letting all scouts hack faster regardless of level The point would be to give a 20% bonus to Ferroscale plates regardless of level As much as I likethe idea its just this thread was made for ideas to give the Amarr scout a better bonus.
"The trick to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources..." Albert Einstein
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Vell0cet
SVER True Blood Public Disorder.
806
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Posted - 2014.01.19 16:45:00 -
[106] - Quote
Nocturnal Soul wrote:Reav Hannari wrote:I'm trying to think of bonuses that can be added as an attribute in the database and doesn't require changing game code. It seems to expedite things dramatically. I'd have to dig through the SDE but I think a fitting bonus to all armor plates may be the easiest thing to do. Then increase the stamina bonus to something not sucky and you'll have the best defensive scout with the ability to run places, eventually. I like you, you understand the Amarr. You guys may understand the Amarr, but you seem to have no clue about what a scout is supposed to do. This is how CCP Remnant described the role:
CCP Remnant wrote:...To me, the Scout role has always been about creating a disruptive force on the battlefield. HeGÇÖs the guy that can cover enough ground quickly enough to get drop uplinks into the right places (that is, if everyone didnGÇÖt carry one, but more on that later), hack objectives back, disperse squad members (nothing makes people scatter faster than a KC-amped shotgunner) and generally make a nuisance of himself.
The Scout role will get very high PG/CPU bonuses to fitting cloak equipment, making it just about the only role that can feasibly fit a cloak field without having to sacrifice the rest of its fit. Individual race skill bonuses will create opportunities for cloaked scouts to scan further and longer than other dropsuits, to have less GÇ£shimmerGÇ¥ as they move, and have lower innate scan profiles so that they can be visually and electronically invisible. These should help create more useful assassins, intel gatherers, and saboteurs. I didn't see anything in there about tanking lots of damage.
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Nocturnal Soul
Immortal Retribution
1648
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Posted - 2014.01.19 17:28:00 -
[107] - Quote
Vell0cet wrote:Nocturnal Soul wrote:Reav Hannari wrote:I'm trying to think of bonuses that can be added as an attribute in the database and doesn't require changing game code. It seems to expedite things dramatically. I'd have to dig through the SDE but I think a fitting bonus to all armor plates may be the easiest thing to do. Then increase the stamina bonus to something not sucky and you'll have the best defensive scout with the ability to run places, eventually. I like you, you understand the Amarr. You guys may understand the Amarr, but you seem to have no clue about what a scout is supposed to do. This is how CCP Remnant described the role: CCP Remnant wrote:...To me, the Scout role has always been about creating a disruptive force on the battlefield. HeGÇÖs the guy that can cover enough ground quickly enough to get drop uplinks into the right places (that is, if everyone didnGÇÖt carry one, but more on that later), hack objectives back, disperse squad members (nothing makes people scatter faster than a KC-amped shotgunner) and generally make a nuisance of himself.
The Scout role will get very high PG/CPU bonuses to fitting cloak equipment, making it just about the only role that can feasibly fit a cloak field without having to sacrifice the rest of its fit. Individual race skill bonuses will create opportunities for cloaked scouts to scan further and longer than other dropsuits, to have less GÇ£shimmerGÇ¥ as they move, and have lower innate scan profiles so that they can be visually and electronically invisible. These should help create more useful assassins, intel gatherers, and saboteurs. I didn't see anything in there about tanking lots of damage. What you fail to see is that every amarr suit in the game has something to make it lean towards a more combative role on the field.
The logi gets a side-arm The assaults heat reduction bonus The heavy's two high slot that will most certainly be used for damage mods
It shouldn't just stop there with the scout.
"The trick to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources..." Albert Einstein
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Reav Hannari
Red Rock Outriders
2661
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Posted - 2014.01.19 17:40:00 -
[108] - Quote
We don't have to address the pure scout part of the Amarr suit. The attributes and ability to efficiently carry a cloak give them their disruptive ability. What we are trying to help CCP decide on is that little bit extra to give them their personality.
Is pure stamina enough? Boring but useful if the values are increased. Assassination using their native weapon? Already very powerful but a possibility. Ability to stand toe to toe with a heavier frame once the cloak drops? Could be very useful. Drop uplinks to bring in friends? Sure, sounds good.
What extra bonus makes them disruptive in Amarr style?
// Venge Captain // Matari Logistics / Scout / Pilot // @ReesNoturana
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Nocturnal Soul
Immortal Retribution
1648
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Posted - 2014.01.19 17:47:00 -
[109] - Quote
Reav Hannari wrote:We don't have to address the pure scout part of the Amarr suit. The attributes and ability to efficiently carry a cloak give them their disruptive ability. What we are trying to help CCP decide on is that little bit extra to give them their personality.
Is pure stamina enough? Boring but useful if the values are increased. Assassination using their native weapon? Already very powerful but a possibility. Ability to stand toe to toe with a heavier frame once the cloak drops? Could be very useful. Drop uplinks to bring in friends? Sure, sounds good.
What extra bonus makes them disruptive in Amarr style? Thank you I'd gladly take anyone of these bonuses except the uplink one I just find it better on a logi suit. Most people would say "but how would you get behind enemy lines and drop them". Thats the wrong way to think about it, its more of a defensive type of play style making sure you have a back bone to get you back into the game quickly.
"The trick to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources..." Albert Einstein
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Vell0cet
SVER True Blood Public Disorder.
806
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Posted - 2014.01.19 18:00:00 -
[110] - Quote
Nocturnal Soul wrote:What you fail to see is that every amarr suit in the game has something to make it lean towards a more combative role on the field.
The logi gets a side-arm The assaults heat reduction bonus The heavy's two high slot that will most certainly be used for damage mods
It shouldn't just stop there with the scout. I have no problem with the Amarr suit being combative, but I don't see how plate bonuses fit with the scout role. Surely a bonus to ScP clip size would qualify as combative without being a "stand-and-deliver" bonus like plates are.
I originally proposed a bonus to vehicle damage on remote explosives and proxi mines to fill the saboteur role specifically mentioned by CCP Remnant, but not explicitly filled by any of the other proposed suit bonuses. The Amarr would have a slight HP advantage that might make going up against a vehicle less suicidal. And I don't think people would complain if we had more viable A/V options out there. Not many people seemed to like it though, and that's cool.
Going the Assasin route seems to be the next best role to me. Assasins don't need tank, they need stealth and damage. Either a cloaking bonus on the most "technologically advanced" race or a bonus to the scrambler pistol would be the logical choices. Headshot bonuses seem cool, but I suspect if you add up the amount of damage this adds at the end of a round, it will be a small fraction of what the total damage increase is from the nova knife damage bonus the Minmatar get. You'd have to get dozens of ScP headshots per match for that bonus to be very useful. The clip size increase bonus makes going for the headshot a more viable tactic, since misses aren't quite so punishing with the existing small clips.
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Nocturnal Soul
Immortal Retribution
1648
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Posted - 2014.01.19 18:05:00 -
[111] - Quote
Vell0cet wrote:Nocturnal Soul wrote:What you fail to see is that every amarr suit in the game has something to make it lean towards a more combative role on the field.
The logi gets a side-arm The assaults heat reduction bonus The heavy's two high slot that will most certainly be used for damage mods
It shouldn't just stop there with the scout. I have no problem with the Amarr suit being combative, but I don't see how plate bonuses fit with the scout role. Surely a bonus to ScP clip size would qualify as combative without being a "stand-and-deliver" bonus like plates are. I originally proposed a bonus to vehicle damage on remote explosives and proxi mines to fill the saboteur role specifically mentioned by CCP Remnant, but not explicitly filled by any of the other proposed suit bonuses. The Amarr would have a slight HP advantage that might make going up against a vehicle less suicidal. And I don't think people would complain if we had more viable A/V options out there. Not many people seemed to like it though, and that's cool. Going the Assasin route seems to be the next best role to me. Assasins don't need tank, they need stealth and damage. Either a cloaking bonus on the most "technologically advanced" race or a bonus to the scrambler pistol would be the logical choices. Headshot bonuses seem cool, but I suspect if you add up the amount of damage this adds at the end of a round, it will be a small fraction of what the total damage increase is from the nova knife damage bonus the Minmatar get. You'd have to get dozens of ScP headshots per match for that bonus to be very useful. The clip size increase bonus makes going for the headshot a more viable tactic, since misses aren't quite so punishing with the existing small clips. The bonus to plate speed reduction was only a suggestion I'd be damned if it actually got it because then it'll be followed by a hard nerf.
"The trick to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources..." Albert Einstein
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Stefan Stahl
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
390
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Posted - 2014.01.19 18:13:00 -
[112] - Quote
Stefan Stahl wrote:Suggestions I'd like: [...] - A bonus to cloaking. Can't say in which way because I have no idea how cloaking is going to work. After some additional thought I've now settled for something like a slight cloaking bonus and the current (minor) stamina bonus.
That way a properly fit Amarr Scout would be about being visually undetectable. A Gallente Scout would be about being undetectable from scanners. A Caldari Scout would be about detecting everything. A Minmatar Scout would be about not being where you've been spotted/detected a second before.
This has a certain balance to it. Caldari and Gallente are balanced against each other because neither can see the other on it's radar and Amarr and Minmatar are equal to each other in that an Amarr can't hunt down a Minmatar while the Minmatar can't spot/detect the Amarr. |
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Llast 326
An Arkhos
1465
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Posted - 2014.01.19 18:26:00 -
[113] - Quote
The Amarr Scout is missing a scouty feel in bonuses, that the other scout suits have. Scanning, dampening, and hacking are fairly obvious in their benefits to scouting, a stamina boost is also extremely useful to scouts, for running, and jumping, (melee not so much) but it does not give an obvious boost. When one looks at the overall build of the Amarr Scout it has a lot of potential as an engagement scout, able to work very well in combat with a small unit. Appropriate for the Amarr, I would say. This leads to a few directions that we could apply bonuses to, and these would influence the way one uses the Amarr scout.
A bonus to fitting Lazer Weapons (LR,SCR,SCP) These are high fitting cost weapons, and while the fitting of scouts looks to be considerably more reasonable with the projected changes it would leave more room to fit higher tier modules that can also be costly. This would also complement the engagement role, however it does not bring a more 'scoutly feel' to the suit.
Bonus to fitting uplinks. This bonus is covered by the Amarr Logi, though it is often a role taken by many scouts. I can say from experience it is a great way to control the flow of battle, break being redlined, direct blueberries towards a goalGǪ But it is really not the most exciting mode of operation. However with the ability to engage in battle on the flank with a sense of durability that other scouts don't really achieve, I could see Amarr scout using this to establish a battle line, a bring your own backup method of dictating battle flow. The Amarr scout is the least squishy of the light frames, and should handle sticking around to hit from a flank or rear rather well.
The original "leaked" bonus Amarr Scout Bonus: 5% reduction to cloak field cooldown per level. This bonus would definitely fall into the category of scoutly given that is stealth oriented, giving a scout feel to the Amarr. Though a few questions pop up with it. Originally it was the only bonus the Amarr Scout was going to be given, so adding it to another bonus may be overpowered, would a reduced % be in order to bring it inline? We don't actually have a solid idea of how the cloak will function so it's hard to really gauge what this will be like. Another aspect of this is I really think that scouts should be viable with or without the cloak. Does this bonus make the Amarr scout dependant on the cloak, or does it complement the existing attributes making it another tool in the box?
These are a few thoughts, similar (and even the same) options have been presented already, but these are what I see as good options. For what it is worth I only run scouts and have since open beta, my concern is that all scout suits are viable, and balanced, not just with each other but in the context of the whole game.
Also: Battle Skirt is necessary for the Amarr scout
KRRROOOOOOM
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Reav Hannari
Red Rock Outriders
2661
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Posted - 2014.01.19 18:33:00 -
[114] - Quote
Vell0cet wrote:Going the Assasin route seems to be the next best role to me. Assasins don't need tank, they need stealth and damage. Either a cloaking bonus on the most "technologically advanced" race or a bonus to the scrambler pistol would be the logical choices. Headshot bonuses seem cool, but I suspect if you add up the amount of damage this adds at the end of a round, it will be a small fraction of what the total damage increase is from the nova knife damage bonus the Minmatar get. You'd have to get dozens of ScP headshots per match for that bonus to be very useful. The clip size increase bonus makes going for the headshot a more viable tactic, since misses aren't quite so punishing with the existing small clips.
The assassin role is my personal favorite and one I think matches the Amarr the best. It currently takes about two pistol head shots to do a comparable amount of damage to a single fully charge nova knife attack. The issue I now have with increasing that damage is that the pistol has some really nice range to it with makes it significantly more powerful than the nova knives. The reason I support giving the Amarr a defensive bonus and allowing them to wear armor without drawbacks is to allow them to make one covert attack and then be able to survive long enough to lengthen that attack and cause further disruption or to retreat.
If we are to go the gentleman assassin route with a scrambler pistol as their weapon of choice you want them to operate independently behind enemy lines for as long as possible. Carrying as much ammo as possible without dropping supply hives that reveal your position is a good idea. There will be enough slots for armor repair but some innate armor repair would not be overpowered.
Give them +20% stamina regeneration and +10 scrambler pistol rounds of maximum ammo per level. They can then have the equivalent of a complex green bottle, which I think most agree is fair, and 50 extra shots per pistol that is carried for long term operations. Add in 1 HP/s of armor repair to give them the only self-repairing Amarr suit on the field. They'll have two slots for equipment so they can still bring uplinks along with their cloak or whatever else suits their fancy.
Write up some lore about them being the immortal clone version of some slave hunter government organization. They are the relentless hunters that appear from the shadows and shoot you in the head with their holy handguns. Sort of like the Black Eagles but backed by the church.
// Venge Captain // Matari Logistics / Scout / Pilot // @ReesNoturana
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Vell0cet
SVER True Blood Public Disorder.
806
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Posted - 2014.01.19 19:00:00 -
[115] - Quote
Reav Hannari wrote:Carrying as much ammo as possible without dropping supply hives that reveal your position is a good idea. There will be enough slots for armor repair but some innate armor repair would not be overpowered.
Give them +20% stamina regeneration and +10 scrambler pistol rounds of maximum ammo per level. They can then have the equivalent of a complex green bottle, which I think most agree is fair, and 50 extra shots per pistol that is carried for long term operations. Add in 1 HP/s of armor repair to give them the only self-repairing Amarr suit on the field. They'll have two slots for equipment so they can still bring uplinks along with their cloak or whatever else suits their fancy. I honestly don't expect to live long enough as a scout for the ammo capacity bonus to be a factor. In most cases, there should be a supply depot or friendly nano hive that is close enough to grab. I also expect to see lots of dual ScP fits, so you've probably got plenty of ammo, especially since, as an assassin, you're much more surgical about how you fire your rounds. Why don't you like the ScP clip-size bonus?
Also 3 bonuses + the cloak fitting bonus seems a bit much, no?
Quick/Dirty Test Range Idea
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Nocturnal Soul
Immortal Retribution
1650
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Posted - 2014.01.19 19:12:00 -
[116] - Quote
Vell0cet wrote:Reav Hannari wrote:Carrying as much ammo as possible without dropping supply hives that reveal your position is a good idea. There will be enough slots for armor repair but some innate armor repair would not be overpowered.
Give them +20% stamina regeneration and +10 scrambler pistol rounds of maximum ammo per level. They can then have the equivalent of a complex green bottle, which I think most agree is fair, and 50 extra shots per pistol that is carried for long term operations. Add in 1 HP/s of armor repair to give them the only self-repairing Amarr suit on the field. They'll have two slots for equipment so they can still bring uplinks along with their cloak or whatever else suits their fancy. I honestly don't expect to live long enough as a scout for the ammo capacity bonus to be a factor. In most cases, there should be a supply depot or friendly nano hive that is close enough to grab. I also expect to see lots of dual ScP fits, so you've probably got plenty of ammo, especially since, as an assassin, you're much more surgical about how you fire your rounds. Why don't you like the ScP clip-size bonus? Also 3 bonuses + the cloak fitting bonus seems a bit much, no? I'm personally swinging towards the original cloak ability and the current stamina bonus.
"The trick to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources..." Albert Einstein
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Summ Dude
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
130
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Posted - 2014.01.19 19:42:00 -
[117] - Quote
Reav Hannari wrote:Vell0cet wrote:Going the Assasin route seems to be the next best role to me. Assasins don't need tank, they need stealth and damage. Either a cloaking bonus on the most "technologically advanced" race or a bonus to the scrambler pistol would be the logical choices. Headshot bonuses seem cool, but I suspect if you add up the amount of damage this adds at the end of a round, it will be a small fraction of what the total damage increase is from the nova knife damage bonus the Minmatar get. You'd have to get dozens of ScP headshots per match for that bonus to be very useful. The clip size increase bonus makes going for the headshot a more viable tactic, since misses aren't quite so punishing with the existing small clips. The assassin role is my personal favorite and one I think matches the Amarr the best. It currently takes about two pistol head shots to do a comparable amount of damage to a single fully charge nova knife attack. The issue I now have with increasing that damage is that the pistol has some really nice range to it with makes it significantly more powerful than the nova knives. The reason I support giving the Amarr a defensive bonus and allowing them to wear armor without drawbacks is to allow them to make one covert attack and then be able to survive long enough to lengthen that attack and cause further disruption or to retreat. If we are to go the gentleman assassin route with a scrambler pistol as their weapon of choice you want them to operate independently behind enemy lines for as long as possible. Carrying as much ammo as possible without dropping supply hives that reveal your position is a good idea. There will be enough slots for armor repair but some innate armor repair would not be overpowered. Give them +20% stamina regeneration and +10 scrambler pistol rounds of maximum ammo per level. They can then have the equivalent of a complex green bottle, which I think most agree is fair, and 50 extra shots per pistol that is carried for long term operations. Add in 1 HP/s of armor repair to give them the only self-repairing Amarr suit on the field. They'll have two slots for equipment so they can still bring uplinks along with their cloak or whatever else suits their fancy. Write up some lore about them being the immortal clone version of some slave hunter government organization. They are the relentless hunters that appear from the shadows and shoot you in the head with their holy handguns. Sort of like the Black Eagles but backed by the church.
@Vell0cet- Yes, the headshot bonus damage on ScP would be less of an overall bonus than the Minmatar Scout's NK bonus, but as Reav sort of stated, they have some actual range, as well as a much faster fire rate, so I think that would actually balance out pretty well. Not to mention, I just find an assassination bonus like that to be pretty cool.
@Reav- Are you sure a bonus to ScP clip size wouldn't be a little more fitting and enticing? So they get that increased self-sustainability key to the Scout, but also that increased upfront combat usefulness for being Amarr. Also, I'd really rather the Gallente keep the passive armor repair. It fits with Eve (finally!), and I like dropsuits having little bits of unique character like that.
Not just a laymen, but the laymen.
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Vell0cet
SVER True Blood Public Disorder.
806
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Posted - 2014.01.19 19:49:00 -
[118] - Quote
Nocturnal Soul wrote:Vell0cet wrote:Reav Hannari wrote:Carrying as much ammo as possible without dropping supply hives that reveal your position is a good idea. There will be enough slots for armor repair but some innate armor repair would not be overpowered.
Give them +20% stamina regeneration and +10 scrambler pistol rounds of maximum ammo per level. They can then have the equivalent of a complex green bottle, which I think most agree is fair, and 50 extra shots per pistol that is carried for long term operations. Add in 1 HP/s of armor repair to give them the only self-repairing Amarr suit on the field. They'll have two slots for equipment so they can still bring uplinks along with their cloak or whatever else suits their fancy. I honestly don't expect to live long enough as a scout for the ammo capacity bonus to be a factor. In most cases, there should be a supply depot or friendly nano hive that is close enough to grab. I also expect to see lots of dual ScP fits, so you've probably got plenty of ammo, especially since, as an assassin, you're much more surgical about how you fire your rounds. Why don't you like the ScP clip-size bonus? Also 3 bonuses + the cloak fitting bonus seems a bit much, no? I'm personally swinging towards the original cloak ability and the current stamina bonus. Yeah, that's the way I'm leaning too. ScP clip size would be my alternate preference if it's decided that scouts shouldn't be designed around the cloak. With the base stats of the Amarr scout, I really don't see it being used without the cloak, like the other scouts might. I just won't be a viable/competitive fit. They're slow, and not bonused to hide from scanners (which I agree with-- it's consistent with the Amarr style), so their cloak will be their main source of defense as a result.
Quick/Dirty Test Range Idea
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Ghost Kaisar
Titans of Phoenix Legacy Rising
2067
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Posted - 2014.01.19 20:03:00 -
[119] - Quote
Summ Dude wrote:Reav Hannari wrote:Summ Dude wrote:Reav Hannari wrote:
The scouts become the flanking escort (aka outriders) for the for the assaults and heavies picking off those that attempt to flee using their range optimization subsystems? When they encounter resistance then the main force moves into deal with it.
"I'm not running you down, slave. I'll just burn you from here."
Escort role. Interesting idea.
Now that's something I can definitely get behind. Edit: So now what kind of bonus would help cement the role of picking of the stragglers? Increase range so they don't have to run them down? I'm not sure that is in the current game code and we don't want it delayed. I also like the suggestions from earlier for either increasing the efficacy of the ferroscale plates or removing the speed penalty of normal plates. The Amarr are all about armor buffer. The benefit of their scout is retaining movement speed without losing that ability. Since the scout should be well ahead or to the flank of logistics you don't want them to have to return for repairs or waiting in cover for slow armor repair to do its thing. So keep the current stamina bonuses, and then a reduction to armor plate movement penalty, enough so that at level 5 they experience none even from complex? This could really make them the ultimate distance runners, while still keeping that Amarr armor resiliency. And it definitely works with them being on the outside flanks of lines, chasing down any would-be runners. This might just be my new favorite.
Minmatar Scout here.
I approve of this.
In my head, the Amarr is supposed to be tough and inevitable. I will sprint at almost 10.38m/s, but I have very little stamina.
The Amarr scout will have MUCH more eHP and will always be hunting me. Eventually, I will have to turn and fight. I better have an ambush ready, cause there is no way my 350 eHP suit will be able to take you on in a head on fight.
Nothing says "F**K YOU!" like a direct Flaylock to the face.
Minmatar. In Rust we trust.
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Reav Hannari
Red Rock Outriders
2663
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Posted - 2014.01.19 20:46:00 -
[120] - Quote
I applaud all contributors to this thread for a good debate and constructive comments. If this doesn't kick off some discussion between the CPM and CCP I'll be very disappointed. Only CCP knows where this will end but I'm hoping this will make the scout war between the Minmatar and the Amarr a good one.
// Venge Captain // Matari Logistics / Scout / Pilot // @ReesNoturana
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