*twitch*

Okay people, let's get something straight here. You are not supposed to be able to down a vehicle while a hardener is running. That is the entire point of them. You have to wait until they turn off to attack. Your attack is supposed to be ineffective when hardeners are active.

1. Limit one hardener per vehicle. ONE hardener, to reiterate. Gives us vehicles our window of opportunity, but ensures that window closes and AV windows open.

There's a pretty big difference between dealing minimal damage, but STILL HAVING THAT MINIMAL DAMAGE COUNT, and what happens with Swarm Launchers against Hardeners.

The regen rate is FASTER than Swarm DPS, and in spite of TAKING HITS FROM PROTOTYPE AV WEAPONRY, the shield regen isn't being interrupted. So you're using a 60% damage resist, and effectively turning an AV weapon into not merely reduced damage, but all it's doing is SLOWING DOWN YOUR REGEN. Reducing your rate of healing is not minor damage. It's non-damaging hits. Anti-vehicle weapons should NOT be hitting zero effect because of a 60% resist.

If you fire a Plasma Cannon at an armour tank while its shields are down, it can have THREE hardeners active and see more impact than a shield tank gets from a Swarm Launcher while running only ONE.


Not only is this a terrible idea at its base when literally every other module, active or otherwise, is allowed multiples fitted, but it also doesn't solve the problem because one hardener is enough to literally turn Swarm Launchers into a pretty light show with a smaller effect than a passive regen that doesn't even require a module to activate.

Am I the only one who uses flux grenades to take out a tank's shields before trying to attack it with swarms?

Yes the limit of one hardener would not solve the underlying problem but at least it gives AV a chance. With enough hardeners you could have active hardeners nearly non stop, that creates only one big wave of oppertunity for the HAV Pilot.

I support the one hardener restriction as yes it will negate swarms on my gunlogi but only for 30 seconds(max skills) and then be very vulnerable for 42 seconds which is plenty of time to kill a tank with swarms or forges or even gosh the plasma cannon,

The problem isn't just the tanks its how av are going about destroying them i.e. iv shot many forge gunnners and swarm launchers who still stand out in the open and attempt to spam av at me

there is also things av needs to consider when taking down a tank

firstly is it shield or armour -

iif it is shield based then you need high alpha damage weapons to take them down especially when the hardners are active, right so that means you need a single shot high damage projectile that has bonuses towards shield damage like say the plasma cannon ( don't laugh I have tested it up to the kla and found it to cut through hardeners and make a shield pilot freek out and retreat even when the hardeners are up ) also the forge has great alpha damage and will tear through shields as will flux nades . the problem with swarms is that they are a tricle attack weapon that deals explosive damage that already has a -11% damage to shields combind with 60% resists ....well you get where im going .

now if it is armour then you need something to tricke away at those reps as they constantly rep that's what the swarm is for the fact it has a damage bonus to armour tells you this +29% damage to armour infact as well as av nades having the same bonus tells you that they are meant for armoured vehicles not shield based vehicles.

Not only is this a terrible idea at its base when literally every other module, active or otherwise, is allowed multiples fitted, but it also doesn't solve the problem because one hardener is enough to literally turn Swarm Launchers into a pretty light show with a smaller effect than a passive regen that doesn't even require a module to activate.

Please stop talking about AV killing tanks - that is not what this thread is about and simply derails the discussion into AV vs HAV poop throwing. This thread is about an AV weapon not resetting a vehicle's shield recharge delay.

If a proto swarm dealing 1320 damage in one volley gets reduced by 30% for shields and then 60% for a hardener, that's 370 damage it should be dealing. Why would 370 damage be below the threshold for inducing the shield recharge delay? That's far too high a threshold.

By that maths, militia swarms should be dealing 246 damage per volley through shields and hardeners, which also seems like a perfectly reasonable amount to reset the the delay.

And remember, I'm not saying those weapons should be doing more than that amount of damage - only that they should be inducing the delay.

inb4 LOLTank Brigade saying "I should be able to rep through your Swarms"

With the slot limit, it's theoretically possible to have a single hardener running permanently, but to do so, you have NOTHING else on your tank, no raw HP buff, no booster to quickly recover when needed, and no option to trigger a second hardener without delay once you're into your hardening pattern. Unfortunately, because of the issue with swarms, there's a primary AV weapon that even a full Militia tank can ignore to Proto level. Limiting to one hardener reduces the strategies open to tankers, reduces the variety in fits, and reduces the complexity of tanking down to ONE hit-and-run approach.

Fixing the core problem so that a hardened shield tank can't literally pretend that Prototype AV players don't exist just because they brought "the wrong gun" is a solution. Your proposal is not.

If I bring a Combat Rifle, I can still hurt a guy with his shields up. If I bring a Scrambler Rifle, I still deal armour damage. Bringing the wrong weapon in infantry combat doesn't make you instantly unable to scratch your target.

My Missile Tank can hit enemy shield tanks hard enough to see their shields drop EVEN WHILE HARDENED, and I'm only running a Standard turret, with no damage mods. When AV infantry using the infantry equivalent - an explosive weapon - fire at the same hardened MILITIA tank, the tank's regen is faster than they can apply damage while using PROTOTYPE gear.

Yes, it's reasonable for my large turret to be more effective. But it's still not reasonable for the Swarm Launcher to be literally a non-presence. Even if it's hitting for such reduced damage it may as well not be hurting, it's reasonable to expect ANTI-VEHICLE weaponry to have enough impact to delay shield recharge.

My suggestion of adjusting the threshold along with resistance makes sense by those standards. Anything that's treated as AV while your tank isn't hardened will be treated as AV when it is. The damage is still reduced, but the threshold effectively looks at the base damage of the weapon instead of the modified damage applied through hardeners. It wouldn't be - as was suggested on the first page - an "exception" being made for Swarm launchers. It would simply be the difference between AV weapons and non-AV.

So OP is an idiot

Why are you shooting swarms at a gunlogi?

Why are you shooting swarms at a gunlogi with its hardeners on?

When swarms deal 80% damage at best to shields and the hardener adds on another 60% resistance to anymore incoming damage, why are you suprised that my regen can rep through the swarm damage when at most you are doing 20% damage to me?

You should know there is NO shield fucussed AV weapon. And please don't come up with the PLC this is not an AV weapon in its current design. So whats left only the flux grenade a weapon that do enourmous damage to shields but is very ineffective versus moving targets and does no damage to armor at all. So it leaves you plenty of time to react when you get hit by a flux...especially when it took several flux nades to bring down a sicas shield...

I think this is because the damage treshold is calculated per missile so you don't inflict 1320 damage but 6 x 220 that comes down to 62 Damage per missile. If you look at this the treshold is not that high as this is less damage than a SCR round would do (or a Tac AR)...

Sorry but PLC is a shield based AV weaopn weather you like it or not

Next best option is the FG which deals a mass amount of damage which does stop shield regen

First, you're using a weapon that is naturally resisted against by shield.

Second, you're using a weapon against hardened shields.

Third, you aren't getting past the damage threshold to stop shields from recharging.

In all honesty, a scrub with a militia SL, or a couple of scrubs with SLs, shouldn't reduce my shields and force me to go into hiding. What should force me into hiding is a well planned and thought out attack, and not someone who can point a shoot with a fire and forget weapon.

Correct me but the description of the PLC never stated to be an AV weapon. The only reference toward this is a DEV statement claiming this weapon was introduced as AV weapon. And how a singleshot weapon with slow reload and a slow moving dumbfire projectile should be an AV weapon is at least a very bad concept. Unless we get something to actually stop vehicles...

Another day, another issue who woulda have guessed it? We all know that tanks have now a pretty high passive recharge rate but can be stopped by using "AV". This is not correct, in fact its terribly wrong and i call it exploitation on the highest lvl.
Why so? Its quite simple cause a full volley of swarms is not capable to get over the damage threshold when hardeners are active.

Why is this a problem? It is a problem cause shield tanks have allready a natural passive resistance against swarm launchers which is around 30% and then you put another 60% damage reduction on top and this means that swarms wont get trough the damage threshold.

So we have a weapon which does pathetic damage while a hardener is running and no im not talking about 2 or 3 hardeners its just 1. We are getting to a point where the passive recharge is greater then the inflicted damage and this means you inflict 0HP damage to a tank.

What needs to be changed is that the damage threshold needs to be drastically brought down to a lower damage. It cant be that a full volley of proto swarms with 3 complex damage mods deals effectively 0 damage and doesnt even stop their shields from recharging.

Now for those who will say "those tanks have a shield booster". Nope they dont i tested it by myself and grabbed a sica with 2 hardeners and activated only 1 at a time. Then i standed on open field and let some redberrys shot my tank with proto swarms. The result is the problem stated above. Oh did i forget to mention that this works for ALL shield vehicles?

Some of us run 3 hardeners. Derrr

You should know there is NO shield fucussed AV weapon. And please don't come up with the PLC this is not an AV weapon in its current design. So whats left only the flux grenade a weapon that do enourmous damage to shields but is very ineffective versus moving targets and does no damage to armor at all. So it leaves you plenty of time to react when you get hit by a flux...especially when it took several flux nades to bring down a sicas shield...

Lol Flux Nades when tankers still move like LAVs. When was the last time anyone used Flux Nades on LAVs?

And here's the thing. If you you miraculously are able to hit at tank with 2 FLux Nades, by the time you try to lock on using swarms that tanker is out of your range. Well, at least if the tanker has a brain.

Just to let ya know even when swarms would overcome the threshold and stop shields from regen a proto swarm launcher would still need 7 hits in a row to deplete the shields of a gunnlogi who has his hardener running. And people seem to forget that shield tanks are supposed to be "hit and run" not "be a invincible fortress".

That's why you don't do it alone. I can tell you're still trying to solo tanks. You're obviously not good enough.