They're using an anti-vehicle weapon on a vehicle. I expect it to be at least mildly effective. Particularly considering we're even seeing this happen Proto AV vs. Militia Hardeners.

EDIT: I don't think that Swarms should deal huge amounts of damage to hardened shield tanks - AND THEY DON'T. But they should at least interrupt our repair.

then we have the armor>shield inbalance like infantry

Not gonna lie. I've perched my gunny on cliffs, taking pot shots at people, and been annoyed to hear that Hssssssss sound that tells you a swarm launcher is about to hit you. I've also activated my hardener, and continued going about my business, not moving from my spot, while those selfsame swarmers continued to shoot at me and achieve nothing.

I LOVE leaving them to stew in their own impotence. I love meandering about my day, casually ignoring their attempts to harm me, because, you see, I hate them. I love hanging around listening to the click-click-click of remote explosives being laid down by those stupid scouts who think they're being so clever, only to turn on my second hardener before the first one fades, and render their attempted demolition USELESS. HA!

Forge Gunners and Jihad jeepers are the only A.V. I respect. They put it on the line, they earn their kills.

Excuse me how do forgegunners put something on the line? a swarmer needs to be closer to the tank then the forgegunner and jihad LAV's are cheaper to run then a proto swarm launcher fit. Stop trolling in a seriious discussion or you will face consequences.

oh wow tankers beeing upset cause a AV weapon is pointed at them. We doesnt even have the patch for longer then 2 weeks and they getting used to their crutch. I see arguments from tankers in here who clearly use 3 hardeners on their gunnlogi fully aware of this issue and continue to exploit it.

The argument that "a explosive weapon shouldnt wreck me" is nonesnense. If you play as infantry you cant cherry pick it to ignore a guy with a massdriver only because you use a caldari suit. Tanks should not be allowed to ignore swarm launchers in the same manner. Sure it should deal less damage to you but it should stop your passive shield recharge and inflict some damage. Not as much as a forgegun but it should still do it.

edit:
oh and dont come me with the eve nonesense. On eve you can pick 4 damage types for missiles. EM, thermal, kinetic and explosive. So if we would follow that principle i could change out the ammo in my swarm launcher.

So then more than 2 damage mods on a dropsuit is an exploit. More than 2 extenders or plates is an exploit. Using officer weapons in pubs is an exploit.

See where I'm going with that? You don't? Oh well.

Again, I never knew a play style was a crutch.

Hardeners + Boosters (shield tank) makes for one godly tank does it not?

So we have a weapon which does pathetic damage while a hardener is running and no im not talking about 2 or 3 hardeners its just 1. We are getting to a point where the passive recharge is greater then the inflicted damage and this means you inflict 0HP damage to a tank.

So we have a weapon which does pathetic damage while a hardener is running and no im not talking about 2 or 3 hardeners its just 1.

So we have a weapon which does pathetic damage while a hardener is running

pathetic damage while a hardener is running

while a hardener is running

Am I the only one who uses flux grenades to take out a tank's shields before trying to attack it with swarms?

1. Limit one hardener per vehicle. ONE hardener, to reiterate. Gives us vehicles our window of opportunity, but ensures that window closes and AV windows open.

2. Reduce tank speed drastically. LAVs and dropships have vastly lower defences than tanks, and should be able to outrun/dodge swarms (dodging means swarms need to not turn on a dime, but a different argument for a different time) As of now, tanks can easily escape from swarms. THIS SHOULD NOT BE. Swarms should easily catch a tank, and this is where the issue is coming from. Tanks can outrun swarms, or at the least get behind cover before they reach them. This should not be the case.

3. Increase tank prices. Tanks should be powerful, but it should HURT when you lose one. You should be afraid to lose them. That would help stop the tank spam. A large part of the spam is because they are so cheap to replace.

In all honesty, a scrub with a militia SL, or a couple of scrubs with SLs, shouldn't reduce my shields and force me to go into hiding. What should force me into hiding is a well planned and thought out attack, and not someone who can point a shoot with a fire and forget weapon.

Another day, another issue who woulda have guessed it? We all know that tanks have now a pretty high passive recharge rate but can be stopped by using "AV". This is not correct, in fact its terribly wrong and i call it exploitation on the highest lvl.
Why so? Its quite simple cause a full volley of swarms is not capable to get over the damage threshold when hardeners are active.

Why is this a problem? It is a problem cause shield tanks have allready a natural passive resistance against swarm launchers which is around 30% and then you put another 60% damage reduction on top and this means that swarms wont get trough the damage threshold.

So we have a weapon which does pathetic damage while a hardener is running and no im not talking about 2 or 3 hardeners its just 1. We are getting to a point where the passive recharge is greater then the inflicted damage and this means you inflict 0HP damage to a tank.

What needs to be changed is that the damage threshold needs to be drastically brought down to a lower damage. It cant be that a full volley of proto swarms with 3 complex damage mods deals effectively 0 damage and doesnt even stop their shields from recharging.

Now for those who will say "those tanks have a shield booster". Nope they dont i tested it by myself and grabbed a sica with 2 hardeners and activated only 1 at a time. Then i standed on open field and let some redberrys shot my tank with proto swarms. The result is the problem stated above. Oh did i forget to mention that this works for ALL shield vehicles?

If any of us are to accept that, we need to accept some serious limitations to how dropsuits can be fit.

Find me ONE thread where I've asked for ARs to damage vehicles and it hasn't been obviously the most blatant sarcasm possible.

One.

If you can, I'll give you all the ISK on my tank alt and delete her. It's only about 20 million, but hey, free ISK. Good luck.

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I want AV weapons - ANTI-VEHICLE WEAPONS - to be capable of having MINIMAL EFFECT on the targets they were DESIGNED TO ENGAGE.

It's perfectly fine that Swarm Launchers don't hit hard enough to significantly hurt a hardened tank.

It's NOT perfectly fine that the tank's regen rate is high enough that it's GAINING HP WHILE TAKING ANTI-VEHICLE FIRE.

If you have literally ONE shield tank against TWO players with Swarm Launchers, you'll only barely keep up with their regen while they're hardened.

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What would be FAIR and REASONABLE here is if Swarms would hit with reduced damage so that they DON'T deal a signficant enough amount of damage to hurt, but they still hit JUST hard enough to cross the threshold AND BE TREATED AS AN AV WEAPON. They don't really hurt, but they stall your recovery. This means your tank can't literally say "lolno" to someone using PROTOTYPE ANTI-VEHICLE WEAPONS for 30 seconds at a time.

[quote=Alena Ventrallis]LOL Bugger off with this one hardener BS. We're able to fit our tanks any way we want. Get the heck out of here and distribute your ISK.

If any of us are to accept that, we need to accept some serious limitations to how dropsuits can be fit.

This had been mentioned on day one of 1.7 and was discussed for several days after.

The comments about it died down, but it's still a problem.

I think that while hardeners are active, the threshold should adjust to allow swarms to hit it through hardeners, OR swarms need a small buff to damage.

Yet you're happy to derp around the map in EZ-mode requiring no support from anyone, only your own trigger finger to mow down infantry. You just point and shoot and don't even have to seek cover yet somehow infantry must come up with the Sun Tzu master plan to have a chance.

I just can't see how you can post stuff like that without realising how stupid it sounds.

I'd say don't feed that troll - Go and read his pro-tank responses in other threads and it's summed as "AV are stupid" "I should be able to kill everybody - infantry and tanks, and there should be no counter"....

Here come the HAV DEFENSE LEAGUE

what you're forgetting is that this is PRO AV vs MLT tanks

I can't wait for the re-balance so sp4kr can create 1000 threads a day QQing about how
his tank isn't invincible

Yet you're happy to derp around the map in EZ-mode requiring no support from anyone, only your own trigger finger to mow down infantry. You just point and shoot and don't even have to seek cover yet somehow infantry must come up with the Sun Tzu master plan to have a chance.

I just can't see how you can post stuff like that without realising how stupid it sounds.

Use PLCs, Swarms for Armor k?

Lol Garret's a horrible tanker I've killed him plenty of times. Even once with remotes attached to his HAV.