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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
1547
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Posted - 2013.12.20 17:04:00 -
[91] - Quote
Justin Tymes wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:Justin Tymes wrote:Lol Flux Nades when tankers still move like LAVs. When was the last time anyone used Flux Nades on LAVs?  And here's the thing. If you you miraculously are able to hit at tank with 2 FLux Nades, by the time you try to lock on using swarms that tanker is out of your range. Well, at least if the tanker has a brain. That's why you don't do it alone. I can tell you're still trying to solo tanks. You're obviously not good enough. I solo tanks just fine - with things that work. IE: REs. If you can't solo tanks there is a numerical advantage the other team possesses. That's why you see tanks running around is Droves, because Militia tank > Proto Infantry. Of course you've already proven before that you don't care about the numbers when people post them up for you.
Numbers? What numbers? That tanks are tanks now?
Infantry cries for tank changes, and they don't like them. Tell them to use vehicles, they complain, and use cars anyway
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Django Quik
Dust2Dust.
1986
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Posted - 2013.12.20 17:46:00 -
[92] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:The dark cloud wrote:Just to let ya know even when swarms would overcome the threshold and stop shields from regen a proto swarm launcher would still need 7 hits in a row to deplete the shields of a gunnlogi who has his hardener running. And people seem to forget that shield tanks are supposed to be "hit and run" not "be a invincible fortress". You're still using a weapon that has a severe disadvantage against shields. Why do you persist in complaining about it, when we've pointed out to you countless times that you're using the wrong weapon?
He's not asking to be able to kill you - he's asking to be able to stop your shields regening, which is what should be happening.
Dust2Dust - Funeral arrangements for all of New Eden. Join our public channel D2D. to chat and squad with us.
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Slag Emberforge
Immortal Retribution
344
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Posted - 2013.12.20 17:58:00 -
[93] - Quote
Django Quik wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:The dark cloud wrote:Just to let ya know even when swarms would overcome the threshold and stop shields from regen a proto swarm launcher would still need 7 hits in a row to deplete the shields of a gunnlogi who has his hardener running. And people seem to forget that shield tanks are supposed to be "hit and run" not "be a invincible fortress". You're still using a weapon that has a severe disadvantage against shields. Why do you persist in complaining about it, when we've pointed out to you countless times that you're using the wrong weapon? He's not asking to be able to kill you - he's asking to be able to stop your shields regening, which is what should be happening.
You'd have better luck explaining this to a cat, speaker doesn't have time for such petty, peasant, non-tanking notions such as reading or logic. |
Takahiro Kashuken
Red Star.
EoN.
2010
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Posted - 2013.12.20 18:03:00 -
[94] - Quote
Django Quik wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:The dark cloud wrote:Just to let ya know even when swarms would overcome the threshold and stop shields from regen a proto swarm launcher would still need 7 hits in a row to deplete the shields of a gunnlogi who has his hardener running. And people seem to forget that shield tanks are supposed to be "hit and run" not "be a invincible fortress". You're still using a weapon that has a severe disadvantage against shields. Why do you persist in complaining about it, when we've pointed out to you countless times that you're using the wrong weapon? He's not asking to be able to kill you - he's asking to be able to stop your shields regening, which is what should be happening.
Hardener - 60%
Swarms do 80% vs shields, maybe even as low as 70%
Add them 2 together and swarms are barely doing 30% per volley
Also each missile hits on its own, so thats each missile only doing 30% or less which turns out not to be enough to stop the regen
The regen is working as intended, the hardener is working as intended, even the swarm launcher is working as intended, the player behind the trigger is not working as intended and needs a replacement brain
Intelligence is OP
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Korvin Lomont
United Pwnage Service
RISE of LEGION
389
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Posted - 2013.12.20 18:09:00 -
[95] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:Korvin Lomont wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:So OP is an idiot
Why are you shooting swarms at a gunlogi?
Why are you shooting swarms at a gunlogi with its hardeners on?
When swarms deal 80% damage at best to shields and the hardener adds on another 60% resistance to anymore incoming damage, why are you suprised that my regen can rep through the swarm damage when at most you are doing 20% damage to me? You should know there is NO shield fucussed AV weapon. And please don't come up with the PLC this is not an AV weapon in its current design. So whats left only the flux grenade a weapon that do enourmous damage to shields but is very ineffective versus moving targets and does no damage to armor at all. So it leaves you plenty of time to react when you get hit by a flux...especially when it took several flux nades to bring down a sicas shield... You're obviously not good enough to use the plasma cannon. All fire and forget for you, and your face goes red when your swarms don't 2-shot a shield tank, no matter what the fit is, or who is piloting it. There's also flux grenades. One of those and we're left with around 1400 shields. That's really not much, especially if you catch us by surprise. Guess what.... if you successfully time throwing 2 flux grenades, we have no more shield left. But trying to time 2 grenade throws is OP, STD flux should do 2600 damage to vehicle shields, right? And several flux grenades? Well, let's see. A Sica has I think 2650 shields. A STD flux does 1200 damage. So 1200 + 1200 = 2400. Well, would you look at that, a Sica is left with around 250 shields. That's not much at all. If you could get someone that could, ahem, aim, you could basically have your way with that MLT tank. When you say several, I'm guessing the blast radius of the first flux wasn't close enough to the tank to do full damage, which again, is an example of failed tactics and teamwork.
Only REALLY stupid tankers would not activate their modules or flee once they get hit by a flux. And by the way I do not use the swarm any longer I start using RE's and well they work it's a bit risky to sneak up a tank but all in all better than running with a useless weapon.
Regarding the PLC it takes roughly 4.5 secs to get the second shot out of the PLC on proto. So it takes a huge time (in Dust terms) to kill a militia HAV with this thing, but I guess even that amount of time is still to fast for you . Currently the PLC works like a sidearm (in terms of AV) its just a finisher but takes the main weapon slot... |
AP Grasshopper
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
90
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Posted - 2013.12.20 18:09:00 -
[96] - Quote
Swarms vs shields... haha, save it for the armor tanks. |
lee corwood
Knights Of Ender
Public Disorder.
57
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Posted - 2013.12.20 18:18:00 -
[97] - Quote
As a proto swarmer, I'm surprised we're still complaining about this really. I don't bother to use it anymore and if I do its only to scare away a tank from an objective and honestly that's enough for me. I'd be happy to make Swarmers just equipment. The first week of 1.7 was rather ridiculous, but with each new game, I'm seeing more tank on tank action and rarely get killed by tankers anymore. I see a lot of (I'm guessing) newbies who are trying to run tanks and do a horrible job trying to shot me. Sometimes, I can literally run circles around them...until they run me over. But otherwise, most all maps have enough buildings to hide and let the tank do what it was supposed to do, SUPPORT the team and DENY ground. In all matches except 1, I've always had tankers on my team who would ask us to call out enemy tanks to help us. In only one game have I had a enemy tanker dominate us and he just happened to have a better effing tank.
However, CCP, two suggestions.I do however wish you'd increased the number of players allowed per map tho, as sometimes the maps get really sparse for us infantry folks. And secondly, make it so our own teams can have their tanks delivered without the enemy killing it before its release from the RDV. Seriously RDV....Let. Go. On Ashland, this is a big problem. There is no where in the red zone any of us can spawn that a tank can't speed their way in and back out before getting kicked from out of zone.
Minmatar Logisis | Heavy lover. Come get some badass Band-Aids from this chick
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Django Quik
Dust2Dust.
1987
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Posted - 2013.12.20 19:03:00 -
[98] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Django Quik wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:The dark cloud wrote:Just to let ya know even when swarms would overcome the threshold and stop shields from regen a proto swarm launcher would still need 7 hits in a row to deplete the shields of a gunnlogi who has his hardener running. And people seem to forget that shield tanks are supposed to be "hit and run" not "be a invincible fortress". You're still using a weapon that has a severe disadvantage against shields. Why do you persist in complaining about it, when we've pointed out to you countless times that you're using the wrong weapon? He's not asking to be able to kill you - he's asking to be able to stop your shields regening, which is what should be happening. Hardener - 60% Swarms do 80% vs shields, maybe even as low as 70% Add them 2 together and swarms are barely doing 30% per volley Also each missile hits on its own, so thats each missile only doing 30% or less which turns out not to be enough to stop the regen The regen is working as intended, the hardener is working as intended, even the swarm launcher is working as intended, the player behind the trigger is not working as intended and needs a replacement brain
When an AV weapon doesn't induce shield recharge delay, something is not working as intended.
Dust2Dust - Funeral arrangements for all of New Eden. Join our public channel D2D. to chat and squad with us.
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Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
4274
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Posted - 2013.12.22 10:19:00 -
[99] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:You're obviously not good enough to use the plasma cannon. All fire and forget for you, and your face goes red when your swarms don't 2-shot a shield tank, no matter what the fit is, or who is piloting it.
you know full well that nobody in this thread is saying that Swarms should deal significant damage to a shield tank - let alone be able to 2-shot one. You also know that I'm not the only TANKER in this thread agreeing that an AV weapon should at least have some minimal effect against a tank when it hits, even if it's focused on the wrong damage type.
Quote:There's also flux grenades. One of those and we're left with around 1400 shields. That's really not much, especially if you catch us by surprise. Guess what.... if you successfully time throwing 2 flux grenades, we have no more shield left. But trying to time 2 grenade throws is OP, STD flux should do 2600 damage to vehicle shields, right?
Assuming you manage to be caught so off-guard that you take a Flux hit AND fail to activate your hardeners before the second throw, AND assuming you don't have a Heavy Shield Extender, you should see ALMOST all your shields gone "before you can react" - except for the part where you have plenty of time to react between the first throw and the second even if they cook the first grenade so you don't see the indicator and just move or change direction to avoid the blast.
Quote:And several flux grenades? Well, let's see. A Sica has I think 2650 shields. A STD flux does 1200 damage. So 1200 + 1200 = 2400. Well, would you look at that, a Sica is left with around 250 shields. That's not much at all. If you could get someone that could, ahem, aim, you could basically have your way with that MLT tank.
So you're saying that to completely remove the shields from an unmodded Militia tank, it will take more damage than 2 Standard Flux Grenades. I'd say that's sufficient to qualify as "several" when you take into account that it takes less time to turn your hardeners on than it does for the enemy to throw (particularly if they're cooking first) a second grenade after you've seen the first one hit. You're also forgetting the fact that the enemy grenadier will RUN OUT OF AMMO after 3 grenades and if you're hardened, that means they're 2 grenades short of actually getting through your shields, assuming you only have hardeners - at which point you can also safely assume that you now have 60 seconds - while they're standing IN GRENADE RANGE - to kill the guy throwing grenades at your tank.
Quote:When you say several, I'm guessing the blast radius of the first flux wasn't close enough to the tank to do full damage, which again, is an example of failed tactics and teamwork.
Or an example of being semi-competent at driving a tank and having someone trying to kill you with Flux Grenades.
But that diversion about Flux Grenades wasn't even the point of the thread anyway. The point is that Swarm Launchers appear NOT to be treated as AV weapons by shield tanks while hardened. Yes, they're an anti-armour AV weapon rather than anti-shield, but they're still an AV weapon, and they should still NOT be treated like small arms fire just because you have one MILITIA hardener on your MILITIA tank and that somehow means you repair fast enough to literally take LESS THAN ZERO DAMAGE from a weapon designed for killing tanks and incapable of even HURTING infantry.
As mentioned, if you can hit with a Plasma Cannon on a hardened armour tank, even with double hardeners and a repper, and even with just the Standard PLC, they hit hard enough to damage faster than the tank's regen. The armour tank isn't able to just sit there laughing at you while recovering from damage that other people dealt before they turned on their hardeners, they have to MOVE and FIGHT BACK and stop you from dealing damage while you're using the weapon they're meant to be strong against. Shield tanks can - with Militia hardeners and a Shield Extender for extra AP - literally ignore a guy with a Swarm Launcher EVEN IF THEY ALREADY TOOK DAMAGE. If you get hit by a Flux Grenade then the guy shoots with his Swarm Launcher, and you pop your hardeners, you'll be able to let him keep firing missiles at you and come out of the "fight" with more HP than when you got hit by the Flux.
It's fine that Swarms barely scratch a hardened shield tank. No matter how you phrase it, it's never going to be fine that shield tanks regen fast enough to be GAINING HEALTH WHILE BEING SHOT WITH ANTI-VEHICLE WEAPONS. |
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