Use PLCs, Swarms for Armor k?

There's a pretty big difference between dealing minimal damage, but STILL HAVING THAT MINIMAL DAMAGE COUNT, and what happens with Swarm Launchers against Hardeners.

The regen rate is FASTER than Swarm DPS, and in spite of TAKING HITS FROM PROTOTYPE AV WEAPONRY, the shield regen isn't being interrupted. So you're using a 60% damage resist, and effectively turning an AV weapon into not merely reduced damage, but all it's doing is SLOWING DOWN YOUR REGEN. Reducing your rate of healing is not minor damage. It's non-damaging hits. Anti-vehicle weapons should NOT be hitting zero effect because of a 60% resist.

If you fire a Plasma Cannon at an armour tank while its shields are down, it can have THREE hardeners active and see more impact than a shield tank gets from a Swarm Launcher while running only ONE.


Not only is this a terrible idea at its base when literally every other module, active or otherwise, is allowed multiples fitted, but it also doesn't solve the problem because one hardener is enough to literally turn Swarm Launchers into a pretty light show with a smaller effect than a passive regen that doesn't even require a module to activate.

I support the one hardener restriction as yes it will negate swarms on my gunlogi but only for 30 seconds(max skills) and then be very vulnerable for 42 seconds which is plenty of time to kill a tank with swarms or forges or even gosh the plasma cannon,

The problem isn't just the tanks its how av are going about destroying them i.e. iv shot many forge gunnners and swarm launchers who still stand out in the open and attempt to spam av at me

there is also things av needs to consider when taking down a tank

firstly is it shield or armour -

iif it is shield based then you need high alpha damage weapons to take them down especially when the hardners are active, right so that means you need a single shot high damage projectile that has bonuses towards shield damage like say the plasma cannon ( don't laugh I have tested it up to the kla and found it to cut through hardeners and make a shield pilot freek out and retreat even when the hardeners are up ) also the forge has great alpha damage and will tear through shields as will flux nades . the problem with swarms is that they are a tricle attack weapon that deals explosive damage that already has a -11% damage to shields combind with 60% resists ....well you get where im going .

now if it is armour then you need something to tricke away at those reps as they constantly rep that's what the swarm is for the fact it has a damage bonus to armour tells you this +29% damage to armour infact as well as av nades having the same bonus tells you that they are meant for armoured vehicles not shield based vehicles.

Please stop talking about AV killing tanks - that is not what this thread is about and simply derails the discussion into AV vs HAV poop throwing. This thread is about an AV weapon not resetting a vehicle's shield recharge delay.

If a proto swarm dealing 1320 damage in one volley gets reduced by 30% for shields and then 60% for a hardener, that's 370 damage it should be dealing. Why would 370 damage be below the threshold for inducing the shield recharge delay? That's far too high a threshold.

By that maths, militia swarms should be dealing 246 damage per volley through shields and hardeners, which also seems like a perfectly reasonable amount to reset the the delay.

And remember, I'm not saying those weapons should be doing more than that amount of damage - only that they should be inducing the delay.

With the slot limit, it's theoretically possible to have a single hardener running permanently, but to do so, you have NOTHING else on your tank, no raw HP buff, no booster to quickly recover when needed, and no option to trigger a second hardener without delay once you're into your hardening pattern. Unfortunately, because of the issue with swarms, there's a primary AV weapon that even a full Militia tank can ignore to Proto level. Limiting to one hardener reduces the strategies open to tankers, reduces the variety in fits, and reduces the complexity of tanking down to ONE hit-and-run approach.

Fixing the core problem so that a hardened shield tank can't literally pretend that Prototype AV players don't exist just because they brought "the wrong gun" is a solution. Your proposal is not.

If I bring a Combat Rifle, I can still hurt a guy with his shields up. If I bring a Scrambler Rifle, I still deal armour damage. Bringing the wrong weapon in infantry combat doesn't make you instantly unable to scratch your target.

My Missile Tank can hit enemy shield tanks hard enough to see their shields drop EVEN WHILE HARDENED, and I'm only running a Standard turret, with no damage mods. When AV infantry using the infantry equivalent - an explosive weapon - fire at the same hardened MILITIA tank, the tank's regen is faster than they can apply damage while using PROTOTYPE gear.

Yes, it's reasonable for my large turret to be more effective. But it's still not reasonable for the Swarm Launcher to be literally a non-presence. Even if it's hitting for such reduced damage it may as well not be hurting, it's reasonable to expect ANTI-VEHICLE weaponry to have enough impact to delay shield recharge.

My suggestion of adjusting the threshold along with resistance makes sense by those standards. Anything that's treated as AV while your tank isn't hardened will be treated as AV when it is. The damage is still reduced, but the threshold effectively looks at the base damage of the weapon instead of the modified damage applied through hardeners. It wouldn't be - as was suggested on the first page - an "exception" being made for Swarm launchers. It would simply be the difference between AV weapons and non-AV.

So OP is an idiot

Why are you shooting swarms at a gunlogi?

Why are you shooting swarms at a gunlogi with its hardeners on?

When swarms deal 80% damage at best to shields and the hardener adds on another 60% resistance to anymore incoming damage, why are you suprised that my regen can rep through the swarm damage when at most you are doing 20% damage to me?

Sorry but PLC is a shield based AV weaopn weather you like it or not

Next best option is the FG which deals a mass amount of damage which does stop shield regen

You're obviously not good enough to use the plasma cannon. All fire and forget for you, and your face goes red when your swarms don't 2-shot a shield tank, no matter what the fit is, or who is piloting it.

There's also flux grenades. One of those and we're left with around 1400 shields. That's really not much, especially if you catch us by surprise. Guess what.... if you successfully time throwing 2 flux grenades, we have no more shield left. But trying to time 2 grenade throws is OP, STD flux should do 2600 damage to vehicle shields, right?

And several flux grenades? Well, let's see. A Sica has I think 2650 shields. A STD flux does 1200 damage. So 1200 + 1200 = 2400. Well, would you look at that, a Sica is left with around 250 shields. That's not much at all. If you could get someone that could, ahem, aim, you could basically have your way with that MLT tank.

When you say several, I'm guessing the blast radius of the first flux wasn't close enough to the tank to do full damage, which again, is an example of failed tactics and teamwork.