I'm so baffled by the DEV response to this - it borders on an asinine scolding with a smirking, "It's the New Eden Meta Game!" but it's not like Dust is a F2P game advertised on the PS3 network which is a console, not a PC, where a great deal of players are not going to be from Eve or even know very little of Eve or know why they should potentially know about Eve (because of something like this). This is seriously a critical oversight and what is even more shocking is the, "This is your fault because you want to have access to content that you should already have!"

I don't really understand why alliances are not in the game; if it took Eve two years to develop and yet CCP has ALL that time to recognize how important alliances are and how much player-driver content opportunities alliances offer (which is so, so badly needed right now in Dust), why wasn't it one of the first mechanics available? Even in a FPS player crave some level of sociability, yeesh.

Just a quick update all...

I logged on tonight to check if Vala had the corp back and she hasn't.

I have no idea what CCP did to help, but it's not succeeded. When Vala logged on today at the end of the vote timer with the hope she could have her CEO powers unblocked due to the vote ending.. she found that Jihad had control of the corp, which resulted in him kicking the players who have been supporting her.

Now Jihad has transferred CEO to RAider Vherikor and Vala has no control over the corp anymore.

By his own admission on the EVE forums, Jihad has posted announcing the exploit he found and used against DUST CORE, and mentions he has hit multiple corps via this 'bug/exploit' between the games.

CCP This is your own fault for bad coding, and this coming from someone who works in the game industry himself. You have proivided players with no way to defend themselves from espionage in this instance. If they could defend themselves and lost it, then fair enough.. that's the world of New Eden, but due to bad choices, you have given players the ability to ruin someone's hard work without being challenged.

This should be put to rights to undo your mistake, to reinstate control of the corps to their owners. As mentioned.. i would support the espionage if it was fair and Dust CEO's had mechanics to defend themselves. Since there are no mechanics to do such, then you should put these to rights, and put in defenses against it. Any other course of action imho is down to negligence.

So sorry.. despite CCP claiming they have helped, The theft was successful.

Not alot of EVE players even know of this & no Dust 514 players know of it (till now) as we weren't told & if you haven't heard of shares how can you look into it?

here's why this is unfair and an exploit you can go on blah blah blahing trying to defend why you (jihad) and raider are not class a ho bags going on about how we had other eve pilots who is and yada yada yada when nano cleric who has years of eve experience didn't know what happened because as CCP null arbor stated the dust CEO has control over the shares in their corp till an eve pilot is CEO even for a brief period those shares become public and there is no way that any one would know this this doesn't happen in eve once someone has control of share they have those share in eve there is no poor programing that is so obscure that just takes already allocated shares away so that the next ho bag can take them and that's why ccp has been intervening

The only way this happens is if you assign CEO of your corp to an EVE player. Even if they give the CEO title back they could have taken shares during their stay which gives them power to boot the current CEO using voting. It seems this is becoming increasingly common and confusing people so we will add a warning about it when you resign from CEO.

The shares and voting system is complicated and we purposefully did not include any of this in DUST. However once you have a mixed corporation you need to understand the implications of having both games involved.

i hate to say this without testing it now but unless a change has been made in the last 3 months with regards to the way shares function you are 100% wrong. and i know it for a fact. all you need to take shares is be made a director. the director can then assign shares out of the wallet to him self. their is NOTHING dust side that can be done about this. its always worked like this. you need to check this out Null.

and you are also right when an eve corp is made the share are public and can be taken by anyone that is ceo director or an accountant but once those share are allocated they can not be taken away unlees that share holder gives away his shares or all other share holders vote majority to remove those share. how ever in a dust made corp accoring to ccp nullarbor all shares are pre allocated to the ceo so that even a eve director can not touch them (its in his post) unless a eve pilot is made ceo such as to enter an alliance at such time the share are stripe from the dust player and made public for any eve pilot to get with out dust players able to do anything they can not even allocate the shares to someone else prior to switching with a eve pilot to prevent this from happening as well

How can a strictly DUST player understand corporation mechanics that are not present in the DUST client?

I'm certainly not defending CCP's horrid lack of corporation and alliance management UI in Dust, but this kind of statement is simply incorrect. Most of the large Dust alliances are acutely aware of all the mechanics that underlie corporations, including the Eve mechanics. Your best resource is ALWAYS EVELOPEDIA; for instance:

https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Corporation_management_guide


Yes, the UI needs to be integrated into Dust. But frankly you should always, always, ALWAYS read up on any mechanics you plan to interact with. Because CCP are slow to the ball, the underlying Eve mechanics are usually more complex. Check Evelopedia, and don't trust anyone you haven't known for a good long span of time or who is otherwise trustworthy with being CEO of your corporation. If your corp is big enough to need to be in an alliance and you don't have a truly trustworthy player to put in the application, you should be responsible enough to suck it up and pay the $15 necessary to sub an Eve account for a month and do it yourself.

CCP are really money-grubbers in this situation, though. They really just want to force anyone who wants true control of their corporation to pay an Eve sub, which has always been a joke. All of their rhetoric about "simplifying" corps for Dust players is a product of this implicit aim. If they really wanted to simplify the interface in Dust they could put in a "use simplified corp UI" toggle in the menus.

so in other words is in order to safely join an alliance in dust you have to get a computer pay ccp that monthly fee and make your own pilot the ceo

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Which leads to why I call this a bug & exploit. If your in EVE/in a EVE corporation & you haven't heard of this, then it happens to you. You get a notice like Vala got a notice telling her & if your in EVE you have the ability to fight it so it's FAIR if you loose but you don't hear of this type of thing in EVE anyway because no 1 EVE player can use it against another EVE corporation easily & successfully.

Now this is where it becomes a bug/exploit if your a Dust corporation you don't have any tools for share's or warning or explaination of them. So you go to enter a alliance which is a necceisty in Dust 514 for almost every succesful corporation, but you need a EVE player to do it which this is where EVE guy's like Jihad know you NEED them & they are counting on you to count on them (which is by itself, makes no sense you have to do all this to enter a alliance anyway.)

So you make them CEO & they do this, then you have no way to fight it on the Dust side at all so they can overthrow a corporation of over 1000 Dust players with the mighty vote of 1? If that's not a exploit idk what is apparently.... The arguement it isn't a exploit is flawed.

Joining alliances should never be allowed with CCP-supported training wheels on just because you don't do Reading and Thinking.

Stop being so naieve guys... (these eve pilots and people who know about new eden).

Not everyone is in the same circumstances as you and I, where we can access a PC whenever we feel like it as we own one, nor does everyone have the time to look into things game related. To many people a game is a game and that's where it ends.

I know that Vala has not had easy access to a PC, and is certainly not computer literate. She's had to ask for a lot of help just to come to this forum alone.

Also there are plenty of console gamers out there who have no access to a PC, plenty of adults who have already gone through their schooling and uni.. or didn't have the oppertunity to, and are stuck in situations where money is a real problem.. so natrually won't head out to the nearest net cafe to read up on how alliances work or leading a corp works.

There's many players out there who will have just browsed the PSN Store, seen a free shooter... downloaded it, then simply just enjoyed playing it and making friends, before then seeing you can make a corp in the UI and tried it without knowing 'anything' about it. Then naturally through chatter you hear about alliances forming so they think they aught to join one.. so ask for help as to how.. Naturally they don't have an eve account or know anything about eve so when an eve pilot offers to help then they have no idea what the consequences are.. or even have a clue that they aught to read up on the consequences... Afterall... to them, it's just a game. They have no idea how deep the world of New Eden actually is.

Also, you guys keep banging on about experienced eve pilots, who are you point at exactly? I for one used an alt to help them join the alliance and have no experience with corp leading or what's involved, i've only ever been a mission runner really. I just used the procedure i previously outlined to join them in the alliance and was not told about any other consequences. Plus it was only a 5 minute thing then i left corp so i could be available 24hours later to help another corp join.

I'm unaware of Vala making any other eve pilots director, i'm also unaware of their being any experienced eve pilots in her corp.

As for you saying she had an alt eve pilot.. lol.. it was a trial account she made when she had chance to go on a pc.. and barely touched it and knew nothing about the world she was in. Everything she knows about the game she's had to ask other people about, so where are these experienced eve pilots who 'should have know better'?

You have to realize guys that in the same way you are so naieve to realize that not everyone is as knowledgeable or have access to pc's.. others are very ignorant about the what it was they actually downloaded and the potential risks beyond just clicking a UI button for something with the mentality 'oo, i wonder what this does'.

So i'm sorry guys, you did something clever and managed to steal corps, so your obviously not stupid people... but don't use naieve statements to back up your arguments. CCP dropped the ball on this one, you guys exposed it, and yes it is an exploit as it is 'exploiting a loophole in that build'. Simply due to CCP not taking into account that this could happen. That is what an exploit it.. to make use of a situation which can be considered to be unfair.

hence why i stated above implementing a method in which a dust created corp original CEO could hold 50% of the shares would be held by that person no matter what the case this would seem like a simple yet useful method in which to protect a dust corporation from something like this happening again within the game itself

If it's not equal on both sides it's broken. IMO you EVE supporters and the Dust 514 sucks to be you concept is *#*$#*$. If we can do nothing with shares on this side then you should be able to do NOTHING with the shares of a corp CREATED on the dust side. Plain and simple.

Edit: CCP should just allocate the shares of a corp created on the dust side to the dust character that created the corp. Then everything is good until they allow dust characters to manage the shares. At which point you EVE players can try to steal them.

Stop being so naieve guys... (these eve pilots and people who know about new eden).

Not everyone is in the same circumstances as you and I, where we can access a PC whenever we feel like it as we own one, nor does everyone have the time to look into things game related. To many people a game is a game and that's where it ends.

I know that Vala has not had easy access to a PC, and is certainly not computer literate. She's had to ask for a lot of help just to come to this forum alone.

Also there are plenty of console gamers out there who have no access to a PC, plenty of adults who have already gone through their schooling and uni.. or didn't have the oppertunity to, and are stuck in situations where money is a real problem.. so natrually won't head out to the nearest net cafe to read up on how alliances work or leading a corp works.

There's many players out there who will have just browsed the PSN Store, seen a free shooter... downloaded it, then simply just enjoyed playing it and making friends, before then seeing you can make a corp in the UI and tried it without knowing 'anything' about it. Then naturally through chatter you hear about alliances forming so they think they aught to join one.. so ask for help as to how.. Naturally they don't have an eve account or know anything about eve so when an eve pilot offers to help then they have no idea what the consequences are.. or even have a clue that they aught to read up on the consequences... Afterall... to them, it's just a game. They have no idea how deep the world of New Eden actually is.

Also, you guys keep banging on about experienced eve pilots, who are you point at exactly? I for one used an alt to help them join the alliance and have no experience with corp leading or what's involved, i've only ever been a mission runner really. I just used the procedure i previously outlined to join them in the alliance and was not told about any other consequences. Plus it was only a 5 minute thing then i left corp so i could be available 24hours later to help another corp join.

I'm unaware of Vala making any other eve pilots director, i'm also unaware of their being any experienced eve pilots in her corp.

As for you saying she had an alt eve pilot.. lol.. it was a trial account she made when she had chance to go on a pc.. and barely touched it and knew nothing about the world she was in. Everything she knows about the game she's had to ask other people about, so where are these experienced eve pilots who 'should have know better'?

You have to realize guys that in the same way you are so naieve to realize that not everyone is as knowledgeable or have access to pc's.. others are very ignorant about the what it was they actually downloaded and the potential risks beyond just clicking a UI button for something with the mentality 'oo, i wonder what this does'.

So i'm sorry guys, you did something clever and managed to steal corps, so your obviously not stupid people... but don't use naieve statements to back up your arguments. CCP dropped the ball on this one, you guys exposed it, and yes it is an exploit as it is 'exploiting a loophole in that build'. Simply due to CCP not taking into account that this could happen. That is what an exploit it.. to make use of a situation which can be considered to be unfair.

Which leads to why I call this a bug & exploit. If your in EVE/in a EVE corporation & you haven't heard of this, then it happens to you. You get a notice like Vala got a notice telling her & if your in EVE you have the ability to fight it so it's FAIR if you loose but you don't hear of this type of thing in EVE anyway because no 1 EVE player can use it against another EVE corporation easily & successfully.

Now this is where it becomes a bug/exploit if your a Dust corporation you don't have any tools for share's or warning or explaination of them. So you go to enter a alliance which is a necceisty in Dust 514 for almost every succesful corporation, but you need a EVE player to do it which this is where EVE guy's like Jihad know you NEED them & they are counting on you to count on them (which is by itself, makes no sense you have to do all this to enter a alliance anyway.)

So you make them CEO & they do this, then you have no way to fight it on the Dust side at all so they can overthrow a corporation of over 1000 Dust players with the mighty vote of 1? If that's not a exploit idk what is apparently.... The arguement it isn't a exploit is flawed.