I absolutely agree with this statement and we will brainstorm some ways to fix the confusion, players should not have their corporation stolen without understanding why or the risks they are taking on. There may be some changes to the handling of shares that make this process safer for CEOs to manage, so I will have a conversation with the team about that as well.

However the reality is that revamping the corporation system or integrating alliances into dust would be a fantastic but very expensive task. At this stage, we can provide so much more value into the game with that development time instead, which is why it is lower priority for us.

EVE did not have alliances for a couple of years (2004 iirc), we will get there in the end it's just going to take a bit of time.

Your corp wallets are safe as there is absolutely no way for an EVE player to take ISK from the dust wallet. They are separate from each other.

Or you know, just let Dust players form alliances without having to involve EVE players since its a huge gaping flaw in the system

Most of the top corps in the game are in some form of alliance. And it has an extremely strong effect on how PC battles are carried out. Failing to see the importance of it being represented in game is a rookie mistake.

Ty thoughts on this:

1. I respect where you are coming, however the analogy of alliances in Eve and Dust is a flawed analogy. The reason is that the alliance mechanics are impact Dust today due to the fact that corproations are mixed, and you have given limited mechanics in Dust that involve alliance functionality. When alliances were introduced into Eve, there was nothing like it prior - meaning this was a wholly new concept whereas in Dust it is not.

2. This statement is more comprehensive than your previous ones - part of what upset me and others is that you appeared to be getting defensive without actually explaining anything

3. CCP should revert ownership and shares of the OP's corp immediately.

4. CCP should introduce warning message at multiple levels (assigning roles; resigning CEO title, creating corporation, etc) to present all of the dangers herein until such time that CCP can devote development resources to introduce proper mechanics; this sould be done immediately as well.

5. As the executor of my alliance, things like this really irk me because it impacts my player base greatly. Personally, this does not impact me directly as I know the dangers as a long time Eve player (6 years and counting). That said, it does impact me indirectly in my ability to recruit new corps from Dust into my alliance, as well as the ability to protect my players from unseen threats, which is the responsibility of any corp or alliance CEO. Now comes the fun part - I normally don't play the "disgruntled customer" card, but the fact of the matter is I am a long term subscriber to Eve with 4 accounts (and as someone in Eve who rarely actually makes ISK because I don't enjoy that aspect, I am someone who pays real world money for 4 accounts every month) plus 2 in Dust. This issue impacts my ability to play Eve the way that I want - and so now what you have is a free to play game negatively impacting a paying customer in a different game. CCP's lack of forethought here is amazingly obvious to me. Were this only impactful to players who are not required to pay a subscription to play the game (i.e. Dust only players), the problems are lessened (albeit they are still significant). This, however, can potentially impact a lot of things in Eve - and I don't get the feeling that you realize this.

6. I hereby call for an official statement from CCP announcing the plans to implement the "bandaid" warnings in the game, and how soon we can expect them. I would also call on CCP to acknowledge that the OP's corp will be returned to him as a sign of good faith. I do so with the full understanding that CCP is not required to do so - though from a PR perspective this is a great opportunity that CCP would be foolish to ignore.

7. And finally, to the OP - my sympathies for you. If there is anything I can do to assist you (which, to be honest, I doubt there will be), please message me in game. If it is something that is in my power to do, and is reasonable, I will do what I can for you.

Thanks for listening.

Some posts were TLDR, but in all honesty, If a dust player is allowed to start and maintain a corp/alliance, that dust player should have the same access to all the different tools an eve player should. This just gives an unfair advantage to someone with an eve account. I am all for someone underhandedly stealing a corp, or doing something to dismantle a corp..it is part of the game we play. But, if a Dust merc is not given the ability to defend his corp on the same level of a eve player, then we are looking at an unbalanced playing field via Meta game. This also includes the inability to admin dust made chat channels. Which is something I have be advocating since the beginning.

exactly.

which part of "the most back-stabbing cutthroat videogame in the world" was misleading?

He may have had roles from a previous corp that allowed him to access shares and start the vote, its a bug they never really fixed in EvE and thats the reason any new good corp you join requires you to drop roles first (takes 24 hours) then join them.

A quick check on the attributes of Dust Core from Eve side indicates that at one point in time someone added shares to the corporation. Current number of shares is 1001, which is 1 more share than what a new corporation starts with. I would guess that when a director he added one share and transferred it to himself to allow himself a foothold if it was ever needed.

Im losing my corp right now and dont think its fair. I cant remove Jihad destroyer 011011 from my corp and cant vote against him. He want give back the shares he blocked me from accepting any apps into the corp. He is not director but got all my shares is now trying get rid of me. I hate that Im lossing my corp right . We on dust need to see the shares on here and control them. no one know this can happen on dust side could happen and did . I just want my shares back and him gone from this corp. He kicked people from my corp . This is not right my corp been around sent close beta . Next time lets us have rights to fix this problem and not be screwed im so screwed. Im not eve player didnt know about shares and he not director. By the way Jihad destroyer 011011 is saying he didnt do this when i have the notification that says what happen.

Just a quick update all...

I logged on tonight to check if Vala had the corp back and she hasn't.

I have no idea what CCP did to help, but it's not succeeded. When Vala logged on today at the end of the vote timer with the hope she could have her CEO powers unblocked due to the vote ending.. she found that Jihad had control of the corp, which resulted in him kicking the players who have been supporting her.

Now Jihad has transferred CEO to RAider Vherikor and Vala has no control over the corp anymore.

By his own admission on the EVE forums, Jihad has posted announcing the exploit he found and used against DUST CORE, and mentions he has hit multiple corps via this 'bug/exploit' between the games.

CCP This is your own fault for bad coding, and this coming from someone who works in the game industry himself. You have proivided players with no way to defend themselves from espionage in this instance. If they could defend themselves and lost it, then fair enough.. that's the world of New Eden, but due to bad choices, you have given players the ability to ruin someone's hard work without being challenged.

This should be put to rights to undo your mistake, to reinstate control of the corps to their owners. As mentioned.. i would support the espionage if it was fair and Dust CEO's had mechanics to defend themselves. Since there are no mechanics to do such, then you should put these to rights, and put in defenses against it. Any other course of action imho is down to negligence.

So sorry.. despite CCP claiming they have helped, The theft was successful.

I'm certainly not defending CCP's horrid lack of corporation and alliance management UI in Dust, but this kind of statement is simply incorrect. Most of the large Dust alliances are acutely aware of all the mechanics that underlie corporations, including the Eve mechanics. Your best resource is ALWAYS EVELOPEDIA; for instance:

https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Corporation_management_guide


Yes, the UI needs to be integrated into Dust. But frankly you should always, always, ALWAYS read up on any mechanics you plan to interact with. Because CCP are slow to the ball, the underlying Eve mechanics are usually more complex. Check Evelopedia, and don't trust anyone you haven't known for a good long span of time or who is otherwise trustworthy with being CEO of your corporation. If your corp is big enough to need to be in an alliance and you don't have a truly trustworthy player to put in the application, you should be responsible enough to suck it up and pay the $15 necessary to sub an Eve account for a month and do it yourself.

CCP are really money-grubbers in this situation, though. They really just want to force anyone who wants true control of their corporation to pay an Eve sub, which has always been a joke. All of their rhetoric about "simplifying" corps for Dust players is a product of this implicit aim. If they really wanted to simplify the interface in Dust they could put in a "use simplified corp UI" toggle in the menus.

so in other words is in order to safely join an alliance in dust you have to get a computer pay ccp that monthly fee and make your own pilot the ceo

Stop being so naieve guys... (these eve pilots and people who know about new eden).

Not everyone is in the same circumstances as you and I, where we can access a PC whenever we feel like it as we own one, nor does everyone have the time to look into things game related. To many people a game is a game and that's where it ends.

I know that Vala has not had easy access to a PC, and is certainly not computer literate. She's had to ask for a lot of help just to come to this forum alone.

Also there are plenty of console gamers out there who have no access to a PC, plenty of adults who have already gone through their schooling and uni.. or didn't have the oppertunity to, and are stuck in situations where money is a real problem.. so natrually won't head out to the nearest net cafe to read up on how alliances work or leading a corp works.

There's many players out there who will have just browsed the PSN Store, seen a free shooter... downloaded it, then simply just enjoyed playing it and making friends, before then seeing you can make a corp in the UI and tried it without knowing 'anything' about it. Then naturally through chatter you hear about alliances forming so they think they aught to join one.. so ask for help as to how.. Naturally they don't have an eve account or know anything about eve so when an eve pilot offers to help then they have no idea what the consequences are.. or even have a clue that they aught to read up on the consequences... Afterall... to them, it's just a game. They have no idea how deep the world of New Eden actually is.

Also, you guys keep banging on about experienced eve pilots, who are you point at exactly? I for one used an alt to help them join the alliance and have no experience with corp leading or what's involved, i've only ever been a mission runner really. I just used the procedure i previously outlined to join them in the alliance and was not told about any other consequences. Plus it was only a 5 minute thing then i left corp so i could be available 24hours later to help another corp join.

I'm unaware of Vala making any other eve pilots director, i'm also unaware of their being any experienced eve pilots in her corp.

As for you saying she had an alt eve pilot.. lol.. it was a trial account she made when she had chance to go on a pc.. and barely touched it and knew nothing about the world she was in. Everything she knows about the game she's had to ask other people about, so where are these experienced eve pilots who 'should have know better'?

You have to realize guys that in the same way you are so naieve to realize that not everyone is as knowledgeable or have access to pc's.. others are very ignorant about the what it was they actually downloaded and the potential risks beyond just clicking a UI button for something with the mentality 'oo, i wonder what this does'.

So i'm sorry guys, you did something clever and managed to steal corps, so your obviously not stupid people... but don't use naieve statements to back up your arguments. CCP dropped the ball on this one, you guys exposed it, and yes it is an exploit as it is 'exploiting a loophole in that build'. Simply due to CCP not taking into account that this could happen. That is what an exploit it.. to make use of a situation which can be considered to be unfair.

You must not understand how this works because most of what you are writing is not actually factual at all. Stop posting silliness like this or you will just attract more bad guys like me to your corp because it shows you are ready for the same thing. Let me give you some clarity because you really need it.

Once a bad guy has the shares... there is nothing ANYONE can do about when they place a vote. Only the shareholders can place the vote. EVE players can't fight back or do anything about it either. Its not fair because espionage/hostile take overs are not ever fair. Whomever has the shares controls the corp.

What little rock are you hiding in? This kind of thing happens all the time in EVE... Even from the big corps which should know better. I would suggest you do a google search and expand your mind if your rock has internet access.



I will add in the case of DUST CORE they had made another alt CEO long before Jihad got there, Jihad just had the shares dropped in his lap when he joined up later. (He says "thanks" for that to the angel who did that for him). The CEO at the time also had an EVE character as well and even then they didnt know better. If a corp chooses a leader who is naive, ignorant or just plain dumb that is too bad. Most sharp people out there would recommend against joining corps which are run by them and are unable to have the strategic vision to understand the New Eden pitfalls.

Exactly what I have said.