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This game does NOT feel like a high HP tracking shooter right now...

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Himiko Kuronaga Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 2129	Posted - 2013.11.05 15:20:00 - [1] - Quote Now I'm not complaining exactly. The hit detection right now is behaving like holy jesus. But it really is making me realize just how much this games HP and damage values were balanced around the fact that a gigantic portion of incoming fire was guaranteed to miss due to shoddy hit detection. Now that it.... isn't missing. I don't know. I really don't know what to say. I mean it feels cleaner and better and more rewarding of player skill, but it also feels kind of... twitch. Which I can dig, but I'm not sure that I'm... supposed to? I...ah, I dunno. This is weird. Am I the only one feeling this? Between the aim assist being recently upgrading to god tier, and now a lot more of the incoming fire actually hitting... should the HP values get raised across the board? Or just, hell... just roll with it?
steadyhand amarr TeamPlayers EoN. 1701	Posted - 2013.11.05 15:26:00 - [2] - Quote Last night my iscr went from good to godly so HP across the board might need boosting back up "my faith is my shield, the empress's light my guide and my fury my sword" winner of EU squad cup GOGO power rangers
Himiko Kuronaga Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 2129	Posted - 2013.11.05 15:28:00 - [3] - Quote steadyhand amarr wrote: Last night my iscr went from good to godly so HP across the board might need boosting back up 1.7 hits it's gonna get a lot more godly. Good thing we're both spec'ing the right way brother lol.
Sleepy Zan 2709	Posted - 2013.11.05 15:31:00 - [4] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Now I'm not complaining exactly. The hit detection right now is behaving like holy jesus. But it really is making me realize just how much this games HP and damage values were balanced around the fact that a gigantic portion of incoming fire was guaranteed to miss due to shoddy hit detection. Now that it.... isn't missing. I don't know. I really don't know what to say. I mean it feels cleaner and better and more rewarding of player skill, but it also feels kind of... twitch. Which I can dig, but I'm not sure that I'm... supposed to? I...ah, I dunno. This is weird. Am I the only one feeling this? Between the aim assist being recently upgrading to god tier, and now a lot more of the incoming fire actually hitting... should the HP values get raised across the board? Or just, hell... just roll with it? Your still in shock that you can actually hit something, don't worry it will pass. A good sniper doesn't provide battlefield intelligence, a good sniper leaves no intelligence left on the battlefield
Spectral Clone Dust2Dust. Top Men. 307	Posted - 2013.11.05 15:32:00 - [5] - Quote Im happy I speced into this minmatar developed uber weapon. Just recently got prof 4 as well. GûîGöéGûêGòæGûîGòæGûîGòæ la+äa+ú-ö-¦ +º-¦a¦Åt-ö-éta¦Ça¦Åa+á -ö+É-öa+¼-öa+ä-¦ a+¼a¦Çll a+áa¦Åt a+úa+ä+¬-ö +Éa¦Åa+ó +ª-¦a¦Åa¦ô t-Æa¦Ça+ú a¦Æ-öa+äa¦ô... GòæGûîGòæGûîGòæGûêGöéGûî
Cody Sietz Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 1356	Posted - 2013.11.05 15:36:00 - [6] - Quote I don't think aim assist is as bad as it once was in 1.4 It used to pull my shotgun off of targets, making me hit someone else instead of finishing off the guy I was trying to 2 shot. Same with a buddy who uses the LR, he would nearly kill a guy when a enemy would pass buy and pull the laser off.
Cosgar ParagonX 7305	Posted - 2013.11.05 15:37:00 - [7] - Quote You're right, it doesn't feel like a high HP tracking FPS. It hasn't felt like one since beta. Arguably, they were going in that direction for Uprising 1.0, but everything got screwed thanks to aiming/hit detection and continuing damage vs EHP imbalance. Short death, twitch style gameplay =/= tactical and don't let anyone tell you different. Teamwork and tactics have taken a backseat to DPS and kill streaks for far too long and if we don't stop complaining about it, it's only going to continue on. There's no real skill involved in this game outside of stacking damage mods and everyone shooting at the same target. We have squads and teams, but there's very little need to work together. Dust is doing nothing but emulating their competitors through cheap imitation. This game can be better than this by being different. I love this game, from its concept to the depth, but I hate what it's become. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2969	Posted - 2013.11.05 15:37:00 - [8] - Quote Posted about this in feedback. Yeah, AA, hit-detection, etc. seemed to have really stressed this into becoming a twitch-shooter. It's made me stop playing, more or less. There's other games that do twitch better, and months of skill training doesn't really gel with the sort of minute differences you'd see in a twitch shooter.
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 1610	Posted - 2013.11.05 15:54:00 - [9] - Quote Well players did cry that suits HP between basic-adv-proto were all higher at a base when you went up the ladder so CCP made them all the same
Cosgar ParagonX 7312	Posted - 2013.11.05 16:00:00 - [10] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Well players did cry that suits HP between basic-adv-proto were all higher at a base when you went up the ladder so CCP made them all the same Shouldn't be about generalizing base HP. Everyone needs a boost in survivability across the board. Investing months of SP into modules just to survive an extra bullet for an AR is insane when it takes less than 1/4 of a clip to kill you. Strafing is nerfed to hell, getting hit has a webbing effect, pure shield tanking is dead, damage mod > HP scaling is horrible, and fitting diversity is stripped down to simple buffer tanking with armor suits having the higher advantage since they can gank and tank at the same time. Everything FPS related has been stripped away from Dust, and at this rate it might as well be turn based. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"

Thor McStrut Reckoners 320	Posted - 2013.11.05 16:01:00 - [11] - Quote steadyhand amarr wrote: Last night my iscr went from good to godly so HP across the board might need boosting back up That or the 10% damage boost removed.
Dexter307 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 544	Posted - 2013.11.05 16:07:00 - [12] - Quote Thor McStrut wrote: steadyhand amarr wrote: Last night my iscr went from good to godly so HP across the board might need boosting back up That or the 10% damage boost removed. A 10% health boost would be better. People react more positively to gains than to losses
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows 1023	Posted - 2013.11.05 16:20:00 - [13] - Quote You know why it doesn't feel like that? It is because everyone and their mothers have beelined AR Prof 5 and run around with stacked Complex Damage Mods on their precious Duvolle. Maybe if the scrubstick wasn't the weapon of choice things would be different. Praise St. Arzad and Pass the Nanohives.... Martyr for the Republic Executing Amarr Trash since Closed Beta
Rei Shepard Spectre II 810	Posted - 2013.11.05 16:20:00 - [14] - Quote steadyhand amarr wrote: Last night my iscr went from good to godly so HP across the board might need boosting back up Its that good eh ? Winner of the EU Squad Cup "Go Go Power Rangers!"
Spectral Clone Dust2Dust. Top Men. 308	Posted - 2013.11.05 16:23:00 - [15] - Quote Thor McStrut wrote: steadyhand amarr wrote: Last night my iscr went from good to godly so HP across the board might need boosting back up That or the 10% damage boost removed. The 10% damage bonus was never added to the scrambler rifle, flaylock pistol or the plasma cannon, hence it should not be removed on either of those weapons GûîGöéGûêGòæGûîGòæGûîGòæ la+äa+ú-ö-¦ +º-¦a¦Åt-ö-éta¦Ça¦Åa+á -ö+É-öa+¼-öa+ä-¦ a+¼a¦Çll a+áa¦Åt a+úa+ä+¬-ö +Éa¦Åa+ó +ª-¦a¦Åa¦ô t-Æa¦Ça+ú a¦Æ-öa+äa¦ô... GòæGûîGòæGûîGòæGûêGöéGûî
Thor McStrut Reckoners 320	Posted - 2013.11.05 16:26:00 - [16] - Quote Spectral Clone wrote: Thor McStrut wrote: steadyhand amarr wrote: Last night my iscr went from good to godly so HP across the board might need boosting back up That or the 10% damage boost removed. The 10% damage bonus was never added to the scrambler rifle, flaylock pistol or the plasma cannon, hence it should not be removed on either of those weapons While you are correct, are we sure their damage profile wasn't designed with the 10% boost in mind? I don't recall seeing a blue tag clarifying as such.
Terram Nenokal Eden Federal Resources 223	Posted - 2013.11.05 16:29:00 - [17] - Quote The game's TTD feels right to me. I feel armored, but I also feel vulnerable if I make a mistake. It's a nice balance.
Keri Starlight Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1811	Posted - 2013.11.05 16:36:00 - [18] - Quote Aim Assist wasn't upgraded at all. They did not touch it. I agree with the rest, the hit detection is finally (almost?) flawless! But I'm liking the changes, I actually feel rewarded for being able to aim properly (which sadly not many people can do, aim assist or not) instead of having enemies running away after they've taken 30+ bullets, which is simply frustrating. I shoot and they die, the whole game feels smooth and reactive, just like it should be. At this point, I wonder if the current TTK is like the intended it to be, just like you said. It really depends if they feel like it's ok or not. I'm adapting quickly and I like how dynamic the game is right now. -Caldari Achura - One with the Universe -Tac AR Specialist "I load my gun with love instead of bullets"
Himiko Kuronaga Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 2137	Posted - 2013.11.05 16:39:00 - [19] - Quote I said "recent" upgrade to aim assist. And actually yes, they did mess with it some in this build as well. Felt it on my scrambler rifle immediately. It is now tracking further into effective range with some weapons. Used to cut off just outside optimal.
Cosgar ParagonX 7318	Posted - 2013.11.05 16:39:00 - [20] - Quote Keri Starlight wrote: Aim Assist wasn't upgraded at all. They did not touch it. I agree with the rest, the hit detection is finally (almost?) flawless! But I'm liking the changes, I actually feel rewarded for being able to aim properly (which sadly not many people can do, aim assist or not) instead of having enemies running away after they've taken 30+ bullets, which is simply frustrating. I shoot and they die, the whole game feels smooth and reactive, just like it should be. At this point, I wonder if the current TTK is like the intended it to be, just like you said. It really depends if they feel like it's ok or not. I'm adapting quickly and I like how dynamic the game is right now. If it were intended, pure shield tanking would be able to keep up with armor tanking. Instead, your only option is to omni-tank or stack damage mods and plates. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"

Monty Mole Clone Shiv M 78	Posted - 2013.11.05 16:42:00 - [21] - Quote you can take allot more fire in this game compared to other games, what are you people smoking? give me sum.
steadyhand amarr TeamPlayers EoN. 1705	Posted - 2013.11.05 16:43:00 - [22] - Quote Rei Shepard wrote: steadyhand amarr wrote: Last night my iscr went from good to godly so HP across the board might need boosting back up Its that good eh ? I was killing heavys before they could return fire "my faith is my shield, the empress's light my guide and my fury my sword" winner of EU squad cup GOGO power rangers
Himiko Kuronaga Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 2137	Posted - 2013.11.05 16:48:00 - [23] - Quote Monty Mole Clone wrote: you can take allot more fire in this game compared to other games, what are you people smoking? give me sum. You live a lot longer in Halo, unless you run into a power weapon of some sort.
Monty Mole Clone Shiv M 78	Posted - 2013.11.05 16:52:00 - [24] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Monty Mole Clone wrote: you can take allot more fire in this game compared to other games, what are you people smoking? give me sum. You live a lot longer in Halo, unless you run into a power weapon of some sort. last time i played halo it was 4 bursts to the head for a kill plus all the insta kill stuff. in terms of how quick you can kill it was faster
Keri Starlight Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1813	Posted - 2013.11.05 16:53:00 - [25] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: I said "recent" upgrade to aim assist. And actually yes, they did mess with it some in this build as well. Felt it on my scrambler rifle immediately. It is now tracking further into effective range with some weapons. Used to cut off just outside optimal. I would like CCP to confirm this, because I didn't notice it. However, I'm too happy that my Tac AR is finally working (used to register maybe 1 shot out of 3) right now, I'm really enjoying it and I had some amazing games today, so I'm really satisfied so far. I wouldn't mind some sort of general HP increase neither, if you ask me, as long as it doesn't take 2 clips to kill someone, which kills my purpose on the battlefield. If that happens, however, some weapons will need a buff too: For example, I really hate snipers, but they will need a damage buff if our HP are going to be increased. Might be complicated somehow to rebalance everything to get a higher TTK. -Caldari Achura - One with the Universe -Tac AR Specialist "I load my gun with love instead of bullets"
Cosgar ParagonX 7322	Posted - 2013.11.05 16:53:00 - [26] - Quote Monty Mole Clone wrote: Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Monty Mole Clone wrote: you can take allot more fire in this game compared to other games, what are you people smoking? give me sum. You live a lot longer in Halo, unless you run into a power weapon of some sort. last time i played halo it was 4 bursts to the head for a kill plus all the insta kill stuff. in terms of how quick you can kill it was faster You can strafe in Halo. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Rei Shepard Spectre II 810	Posted - 2013.11.05 16:55:00 - [27] - Quote steadyhand amarr wrote: Rei Shepard wrote: steadyhand amarr wrote: Last night my iscr went from good to godly so HP across the board might need boosting back up Its that good eh ? I was killing heavys before they could return fire Cant wait to try it out, but appointment first :/ Winner of the EU Squad Cup "Go Go Power Rangers!"
Monty Mole Clone Shiv M 78	Posted - 2013.11.05 16:55:00 - [28] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Monty Mole Clone wrote: Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Monty Mole Clone wrote: you can take allot more fire in this game compared to other games, what are you people smoking? give me sum. You live a lot longer in Halo, unless you run into a power weapon of some sort. last time i played halo it was 4 bursts to the head for a kill plus all the insta kill stuff. in terms of how quick you can kill it was faster You can strafe in Halo. and you cant strafe in dust?
Cosgar ParagonX 7322	Posted - 2013.11.05 16:56:00 - [29] - Quote Keri Starlight wrote: Himiko Kuronaga wrote: I said "recent" upgrade to aim assist. And actually yes, they did mess with it some in this build as well. Felt it on my scrambler rifle immediately. It is now tracking further into effective range with some weapons. Used to cut off just outside optimal. I would like CCP to confirm this, because I didn't notice it. However, I'm too happy that my Tac AR is finally working (used to register maybe 1 shot out of 3) right now, I'm really enjoying it and I had some amazing games today, so I'm really satisfied so far. I wouldn't mind some sort of general HP increase neither, if you ask me, as long as it doesn't take 2 clips to kill someone, which kills my purpose on the battlefield. If that happens, however, some weapons will need a buff too: For example, I really hate snipers, but they will need a damage buff if our HP are going to be increased. Might be complicated somehow to rebalance everything to get a higher TTK. Weapon balance needs a serious re-work anyway. We have way too many weapons that under perform until they get to prototype and others that are good at all tiers that out perform anything at prototype. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Cosgar ParagonX 7322	Posted - 2013.11.05 16:57:00 - [30] - Quote Monty Mole Clone wrote: Cosgar wrote: Monty Mole Clone wrote: Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Monty Mole Clone wrote: you can take allot more fire in this game compared to other games, what are you people smoking? give me sum. You live a lot longer in Halo, unless you run into a power weapon of some sort. last time i played halo it was 4 bursts to the head for a kill plus all the insta kill stuff. in terms of how quick you can kill it was faster You can strafe in Halo. and you cant strafe in dust? Lateral movement is slower than moving north and south and there's a "webbing" effect when you take damage, eliminating the purpose of strafing. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"

Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2973	Posted - 2013.11.05 16:57:00 - [31] - Quote You like longer in pretty much any of the Halos, but especially 3/4. 4 bursts to the head? You will die quicker than that in Dust, and your attacker's aim at your head needn't be as good as it would need to be in Halo.
Himiko Kuronaga Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 2143	Posted - 2013.11.05 16:58:00 - [32] - Quote Monty Mole Clone wrote: Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Monty Mole Clone wrote: you can take allot more fire in this game compared to other games, what are you people smoking? give me sum. You live a lot longer in Halo, unless you run into a power weapon of some sort. last time i played halo it was 4 bursts to the head for a kill plus all the insta kill stuff. in terms of how quick you can kill it was faster Rate of fire makes it slower than Dust. A single shot missed in Halo also makes an incredible difference in engagement time as a result, while shots missed with dusts quicker RoF are faster to remedy.
Spaceman-Rob Resheph Interstellar Strategy Gallente Federation 235	Posted - 2013.11.05 17:06:00 - [33] - Quote Go play 5 seconds of cod ghosts and tell me dust doesn't feel like a high HP tracking shooter.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2974	Posted - 2013.11.05 17:12:00 - [34] - Quote Spaceman-Rob wrote: Go play 5 seconds of cod ghosts and tell me dust doesn't feel like a high HP tracking shooter. Activision are twats. Don't give them money; they've mistreated employees and customers enough to warrant a boycott. Besides, comparing to CoD is like competing in the special-olympics. If I can run faster than a paraplegic, then that doesn't mean I'm a fast runner.
Cosgar ParagonX 7325	Posted - 2013.11.05 17:15:00 - [35] - Quote Spaceman-Rob wrote: Go play 5 seconds of cod ghosts and tell me dust doesn't feel like a high HP tracking shooter. Go play 5 seconds of Halo (the first one) and tell me dust doesn't feel like a twitch FPS. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Monty Mole Clone Shiv M 80	Posted - 2013.11.05 17:16:00 - [36] - Quote never noticed this webbing effect and strafing in dust is easy fast enough to make people run down a full clip from a duvolle. tell me it aint so
Himiko Kuronaga Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 2145	Posted - 2013.11.05 17:18:00 - [37] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Spaceman-Rob wrote: Go play 5 seconds of cod ghosts and tell me dust doesn't feel like a high HP tracking shooter. Go play 5 seconds of Halo (the first one) and tell me dust doesn't feel like a twitch FPS. Well, if we're talking about the GOD PISTOL uh.... hah, that thing could drop you pretty darn fast...
Eldest Dragon 0uter.Heaven Proficiency V. 289	Posted - 2013.11.05 17:24:00 - [38] - Quote No its not a tracking shooter anymore, might as well play fkin blk ops, it use to be and it was 10x more fun then. I am a drug addict I do dust everyday...its the #1 drug for birth control...just ask my gf.
Cosgar ParagonX 7331	Posted - 2013.11.05 17:29:00 - [39] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Cosgar wrote: Spaceman-Rob wrote: Go play 5 seconds of cod ghosts and tell me dust doesn't feel like a high HP tracking shooter. Go play 5 seconds of Halo (the first one) and tell me dust doesn't feel like a twitch FPS. Well, if we're talking about the GOD PISTOL uh.... hah, that thing could drop you pretty darn fast... It's a pistol, working as intended. But the point still stands that that's the TTK and mobility we really need. It would make difference in frame size much more noticeable for heavy and light frames while taking away the huge emphasis to omni-tank. Hell, just remove the strafing cap, the webbing when you get hit and the emergency 10% damage buff from Uprising 1.0 and it might set things in the right direction. If anyone complains, tell them to aim harder. This is supposed to be a FPS after all... I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Soldner VonKuechle SAM-MIK 253	Posted - 2013.11.05 18:03:00 - [40] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Keri Starlight wrote: Aim Assist wasn't upgraded at all. They did not touch it. I agree with the rest, the hit detection is finally (almost?) flawless! But I'm liking the changes, I actually feel rewarded for being able to aim properly (which sadly not many people can do, aim assist or not) instead of having enemies running away after they've taken 30+ bullets, which is simply frustrating. I shoot and they die, the whole game feels smooth and reactive, just like it should be. At this point, I wonder if the current TTK is like the intended it to be, just like you said. It really depends if they feel like it's ok or not. I'm adapting quickly and I like how dynamic the game is right now. If it were intended, pure shield tanking would be able to keep up with armor tanking. Instead, your only option is to omni-tank or stack damage mods and plates. Here I thought maybe, just maybe a stealth damage nerf would'v happened and my jesus buffer build could have come out of retirement. Had I known the TTK was going continue to shorten in length, I would've gone proto gal instead or cal. Sigh. Something witty here. How about? #DELAY 514 ... been waiting for a rail rifle longer than SoTa's been trolling.

ReGnYuM Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1236	Posted - 2013.11.05 18:04:00 - [41] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Now I'm not complaining exactly. The hit detection right now is behaving like holy jesus. But it really is making me realize just how much this games HP and damage values were balanced around the fact that a gigantic portion of incoming fire was guaranteed to miss due to shoddy hit detection. Now that it.... isn't missing. I don't know. I really don't know what to say. I mean it feels cleaner and better and more rewarding of player skill, but it also feels kind of... twitch. Which I can dig, but I'm not sure that I'm... supposed to? I...ah, I dunno. This is weird. Am I the only one feeling this? Between the aim assist being recently upgrading to god tier, and now a lot more of the incoming fire actually hitting... should the HP values get raised across the board? Or just, hell... just roll with it? buff strafe speed! If you never heard of ReGnYuM, you're neither Good or Relevant in Dust 514. KDR > EVERYTHING
SILVERBACK 02 SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 267	Posted - 2013.11.05 18:07:00 - [42] - Quote ReGnYuM wrote: Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Now I'm not complaining exactly. The hit detection right now is behaving like holy jesus. But it really is making me realize just how much this games HP and damage values were balanced around the fact that a gigantic portion of incoming fire was guaranteed to miss due to shoddy hit detection. Now that it.... isn't missing. I don't know. I really don't know what to say. I mean it feels cleaner and better and more rewarding of player skill, but it also feels kind of... twitch. Which I can dig, but I'm not sure that I'm... supposed to? I...ah, I dunno. This is weird. Am I the only one feeling this? Between the aim assist being recently upgrading to god tier, and now a lot more of the incoming fire actually hitting... should the HP values get raised across the board? Or just, hell... just roll with it? buff strafe speed! fffuuucckk oofff scrub, try and play the game with out your noobish strafing. the BEST pilot in DUST 514, no.1 ranked pilot on BATTLEFIELD 3, and top 16 on WAR THUNDER.... come at me bro!
Nyx Linx Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2013.11.05 18:11:00 - [43] - Quote get rid of aim assist? sigh the "tactics" of dust. I get tired of them. throw grenade, auto AR, more grenades, more auto ARs. Take off that crosshair already! We don't need it.
ReGnYuM Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1236	Posted - 2013.11.05 18:15:00 - [44] - Quote SILVERBACK 02 wrote: ReGnYuM wrote: Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Now I'm not complaining exactly. The hit detection right now is behaving like holy jesus. But it really is making me realize just how much this games HP and damage values were balanced around the fact that a gigantic portion of incoming fire was guaranteed to miss due to shoddy hit detection. Now that it.... isn't missing. I don't know. I really don't know what to say. I mean it feels cleaner and better and more rewarding of player skill, but it also feels kind of... twitch. Which I can dig, but I'm not sure that I'm... supposed to? I...ah, I dunno. This is weird. Am I the only one feeling this? Between the aim assist being recently upgrading to god tier, and now a lot more of the incoming fire actually hitting... should the HP values get raised across the board? Or just, hell... just roll with it? buff strafe speed! fffuuucckk oofff scrub, try and play the game with out your noobish strafing. Don't be HateN brah For those who would like to learn the different types of strafes in Dust check out this vid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYXffQMXXxM If you never heard of ReGnYuM, you're neither Good or Relevant in Dust 514. KDR > EVERYTHING
Cosgar ParagonX 7337	Posted - 2013.11.05 18:18:00 - [45] - Quote ReGnYuM wrote: Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Now I'm not complaining exactly. The hit detection right now is behaving like holy jesus. But it really is making me realize just how much this games HP and damage values were balanced around the fact that a gigantic portion of incoming fire was guaranteed to miss due to shoddy hit detection. Now that it.... isn't missing. I don't know. I really don't know what to say. I mean it feels cleaner and better and more rewarding of player skill, but it also feels kind of... twitch. Which I can dig, but I'm not sure that I'm... supposed to? I...ah, I dunno. This is weird. Am I the only one feeling this? Between the aim assist being recently upgrading to god tier, and now a lot more of the incoming fire actually hitting... should the HP values get raised across the board? Or just, hell... just roll with it? buff strafe speed! The world must be upside down if I'm agreeing with ReGnYuM +1 (I feel dirty now...) I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Cosgar ParagonX 7337	Posted - 2013.11.05 18:19:00 - [46] - Quote SILVERBACK 02 wrote: ReGnYuM wrote: Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Now I'm not complaining exactly. The hit detection right now is behaving like holy jesus. But it really is making me realize just how much this games HP and damage values were balanced around the fact that a gigantic portion of incoming fire was guaranteed to miss due to shoddy hit detection. Now that it.... isn't missing. I don't know. I really don't know what to say. I mean it feels cleaner and better and more rewarding of player skill, but it also feels kind of... twitch. Which I can dig, but I'm not sure that I'm... supposed to? I...ah, I dunno. This is weird. Am I the only one feeling this? Between the aim assist being recently upgrading to god tier, and now a lot more of the incoming fire actually hitting... should the HP values get raised across the board? Or just, hell... just roll with it? buff strafe speed! fffuuucckk oofff scrub, try and play the game with out your noobish strafing. Learn to aim. Strafing is a core mechanic in every FPS. Even twitch games like CoD. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
ReGnYuM Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1239	Posted - 2013.11.05 18:42:00 - [47] - Quote Cosgar wrote: ReGnYuM wrote: Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Now I'm not complaining exactly. The hit detection right now is behaving like holy jesus. But it really is making me realize just how much this games HP and damage values were balanced around the fact that a gigantic portion of incoming fire was guaranteed to miss due to shoddy hit detection. Now that it.... isn't missing. I don't know. I really don't know what to say. I mean it feels cleaner and better and more rewarding of player skill, but it also feels kind of... twitch. Which I can dig, but I'm not sure that I'm... supposed to? I...ah, I dunno. This is weird. Am I the only one feeling this? Between the aim assist being recently upgrading to god tier, and now a lot more of the incoming fire actually hitting... should the HP values get raised across the board? Or just, hell... just roll with it? buff strafe speed! The world must be upside down if I'm agreeing with ReGnYuM +1 (I feel dirty now...) If you never heard of ReGnYuM, you're neither Good or Relevant in Dust 514. KDR > EVERYTHING
Marston VC SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 1170	Posted - 2013.11.05 19:07:00 - [48] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Now I'm not complaining exactly. The hit detection right now is behaving like holy jesus. But it really is making me realize just how much this games HP and damage values were balanced around the fact that a gigantic portion of incoming fire was guaranteed to miss due to shoddy hit detection. Now that it.... isn't missing. I don't know. I really don't know what to say. I mean it feels cleaner and better and more rewarding of player skill, but it also feels kind of... twitch. Which I can dig, but I'm not sure that I'm... supposed to? I...ah, I dunno. This is weird. Am I the only one feeling this? Between the aim assist being recently upgrading to god tier, and now a lot more of the incoming fire actually hitting... should the HP values get raised across the board? Or just, hell... just roll with it? Its an FPS, theres going to be "twitch" in it. This game still gives players FAR more reaction time then 99% of other shooters out there. I mean..... unless your running around in a crap suit with under 300 health. In that case then yeah.... your going to die quick, but I mean what do you expect? The trick to this game is to staying vigilant at all times. ALWAYS be ready to start strafing. I know some people argue that "aim assist is OP" but strafing still certainly works and that's what makes the difference. Besides the game has evolved a lot too. I remember back in the day when 400-500 HP on my proto suit was pretty damn good. Today that's like the same as a standard or advanced suit. Proto suits these days rock between 600-800 HP at least! And proto heavies...... My god..... As of today you can have proto heavies with a an EHP of over 1700 If they complain after this then idk what they want because they should be able to DESTROY anything so long as they have a half decent logi backing them up. Marston VC, STB director
KA24DERT Pure Innocence. EoN. 243	Posted - 2013.11.05 19:08:00 - [49] - Quote One of the first things that should happen to try to balance this out is the total removal of Auto Aim. I'm sure every scrub sucking at that teat will whine, but it's one of the biggest reasons we're all so short-lived now. Second thing that should be looked at is AR Damage, which should start with a 30% nerf in its current form, or a 10% nerf with added dispersion. Third thing that should be looked at is the Forge gun in relation to infantry. It needs a specific Infantry damage nerf, and some degree of dispersion (so that you can hit a tank, but not easily snipe a scout). Address those specific things and strategy, dropsuit fittings, and player skill will regain some of their lost meaning in this game.
Jungian Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 247	Posted - 2013.11.05 19:10:00 - [50] - Quote Cosgar wrote: You're right, it doesn't feel like a high HP tracking FPS. It hasn't felt like one since beta. Arguably, they were going in that direction for Uprising 1.0, but everything got screwed thanks to aiming/hit detection and continuing damage vs EHP imbalance. Short death, twitch style gameplay =/= tactical and don't let anyone tell you different. Teamwork and tactics have taken a backseat to DPS and kill streaks for far too long and if we don't stop complaining about it, it's only going to continue on. There's no real skill involved in this game outside of stacking damage mods and everyone shooting at the same target. We have squads and teams, but there's very little need to work together. Dust is doing nothing but emulating their competitors through cheap imitation. This game can be better than this by being different. I love this game, from its concept to the depth, but I hate what it's become. My sentiments exactly.

Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2980	Posted - 2013.11.05 19:24:00 - [51] - Quote Cosgar wrote: ReGnYuM wrote: Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Now I'm not complaining exactly. The hit detection right now is behaving like holy jesus. But it really is making me realize just how much this games HP and damage values were balanced around the fact that a gigantic portion of incoming fire was guaranteed to miss due to shoddy hit detection. Now that it.... isn't missing. I don't know. I really don't know what to say. I mean it feels cleaner and better and more rewarding of player skill, but it also feels kind of... twitch. Which I can dig, but I'm not sure that I'm... supposed to? I...ah, I dunno. This is weird. Am I the only one feeling this? Between the aim assist being recently upgrading to god tier, and now a lot more of the incoming fire actually hitting... should the HP values get raised across the board? Or just, hell... just roll with it? buff strafe speed! The world must be upside down if I'm agreeing with ReGnYuM +1 (I feel dirty now...) I have a suspicion that changes to strafe speed, scout speed, etc. over the course of post-uprising updates have been made because they couldn't get hit detection to work properly in their engine at those speeds. If that's the case, then we might be stuck with the current speeds until they can "improve the engine/rendering/whatever".
CommanderBolt A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. 403	Posted - 2013.11.05 19:39:00 - [52] - Quote Cosgar wrote: You're right, it doesn't feel like a high HP tracking FPS. It hasn't felt like one since beta. Arguably, they were going in that direction for Uprising 1.0, but everything got screwed thanks to aiming/hit detection and continuing damage vs EHP imbalance. Short death, twitch style gameplay =/= tactical and don't let anyone tell you different. Teamwork and tactics have taken a backseat to DPS and kill streaks for far too long and if we don't stop complaining about it, it's only going to continue on. There's no real skill involved in this game outside of stacking damage mods and everyone shooting at the same target. We have squads and teams, but there's very little need to work together. Dust is doing nothing but emulating their competitors through cheap imitation. This game can be better than this by being different. I love this game, from its concept to the depth, but I hate what it's become. This, I feel is what a lot of the player base feels like. I am sure there are many that have stopped playing this game, hoping it does fulfil its potential. I wont hold my breath.
Tek Hound Death In Xcess Corporation 118	Posted - 2013.11.05 20:00:00 - [53] - Quote Monty Mole Clone wrote: you can take allot more fire in this game compared to other games, what are you people smoking? give me sum. Dust reality. .wake up!
Tek Hound Death In Xcess Corporation 118	Posted - 2013.11.05 20:07:00 - [54] - Quote Nyx Linx wrote: get rid of aim assist? sigh the "tactics" of dust. I get tired of them. throw grenade, auto AR, more grenades, more auto ARs. Take off that crosshair already! We don't need it. You forgot jump, nade jump nade, backpedal nade,panic smg
Scheherazade VII 57	Posted - 2013.11.05 20:09:00 - [55] - Quote I like to hip-fire just to fool myself GêÜGëêDUST VIDEOSGëêGêÜ
Eris Ernaga DUST University Ivy League 652	Posted - 2013.11.05 20:09:00 - [56] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Now I'm not complaining exactly. The hit detection right now is behaving like holy jesus. But it really is making me realize just how much this games HP and damage values were balanced around the fact that a gigantic portion of incoming fire was guaranteed to miss due to shoddy hit detection. Now that it.... isn't missing. I don't know. I really don't know what to say. I mean it feels cleaner and better and more rewarding of player skill, but it also feels kind of... twitch. Which I can dig, but I'm not sure that I'm... supposed to? I...ah, I dunno. This is weird. Am I the only one feeling this? Between the aim assist being recently upgrading to god tier, and now a lot more of the incoming fire actually hitting... should the HP values get raised across the board? Or just, hell... just roll with it? It's more from the aim assist. Ba bang baby
Meeko Fent Expert Intervention Caldari State 1372	Posted - 2013.11.05 20:21:00 - [57] - Quote Dexter307 wrote: Thor McStrut wrote: steadyhand amarr wrote: Last night my iscr went from good to godly so HP across the board might need boosting back up That or the 10% damage boost removed. A 10% health boost would be better. People react more positively to gains than to losses Good point. Do it please. That should make all well Meeko's Novelty Shop Opening Soon! We (will)sell all the novelty items you desire! Really! King of Uncertainty.
Cosgar ParagonX 7350	Posted - 2013.11.05 20:26:00 - [58] - Quote Meeko Fent wrote: Dexter307 wrote: Thor McStrut wrote: steadyhand amarr wrote: Last night my iscr went from good to godly so HP across the board might need boosting back up That or the 10% damage boost removed. A 10% health boost would be better. People react more positively to gains than to losses Good point. Do it please. That should make all well It's only a fix to a fix to another fix. Look at grenades. Everyone wants to limit carrying capacity to 2, stop nanohives from restocking them... yadda, yadda, yadda. If anyone remembers, grenades were buffed in the first place because splash damage was coded on a 2D plane which negated damage if your intended target had even a pixel of elevation. Short term fix was to buff them to insane levels. Splash damage was fixed in 1.2 and now they're stupidly OP. Roll back hot fixes before simply trying to nerf or buff things. Remove the emergency 10% damage buff (and all the little ninja changes from 1.0) and reassess what needs to be fixed. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Meeko Fent Expert Intervention Caldari State 1372	Posted - 2013.11.05 20:28:00 - [59] - Quote KA24DERT wrote: One of the first things that should happen to try to balance this out is the total removal of Auto Aim. I'm sure every scrub sucking at that teat will whine, but it's one of the biggest reasons we're all so short-lived now. Second thing that should be looked at is AR Damage, which should start with a 30% nerf in its current form, or a 10% nerf with added dispersion. Third thing that should be looked at is the Forge gun in relation to infantry. It needs a specific Infantry damage nerf, and some degree of dispersion (so that you can hit a tank, but not easily snipe a scout). Address those specific things and strategy, dropsuit fittings, and player skill will regain some of their lost meaning in this game. I like how the community thinks nerfing core mechanics is the answer to short TTK. Either reduce all weapon damage by 10%, or buff HP on all suits by 10% Core mechanics like aiming aren't causing the short TTK, it's the very potent guns. Dial their effect down. Aim Assist isn't to blame and anybody whose played halo knows that. Meeko's Novelty Shop Opening Soon! We (will)sell all the novelty items you desire! Really! King of Uncertainty.
Kalante Schiffer Ancient Exiles 458	Posted - 2013.11.05 20:32:00 - [60] - Quote Marston VC wrote: Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Now I'm not complaining exactly. The hit detection right now is behaving like holy jesus. But it really is making me realize just how much this games HP and damage values were balanced around the fact that a gigantic portion of incoming fire was guaranteed to miss due to shoddy hit detection. Now that it.... isn't missing. I don't know. I really don't know what to say. I mean it feels cleaner and better and more rewarding of player skill, but it also feels kind of... twitch. Which I can dig, but I'm not sure that I'm... supposed to? I...ah, I dunno. This is weird. Am I the only one feeling this? Between the aim assist being recently upgrading to god tier, and now a lot more of the incoming fire actually hitting... should the HP values get raised across the board? Or just, hell... just roll with it? Its an FPS, theres going to be "twitch" in it. This game still gives players FAR more reaction time then 99% of other shooters out there. I mean..... unless your running around in a crap suit with under 300 health. In that case then yeah.... your going to die quick, but I mean what do you expect? The trick to this game is to staying vigilant at all times. ALWAYS be ready to start strafing. I know some people argue that "aim assist is OP" but strafing still certainly works and that's what makes the difference. Besides the game has evolved a lot too. I remember back in the day when 400-500 HP on my proto suit was pretty damn good. Today that's like the same as a standard or advanced suit. Proto suits these days rock between 600-800 HP at least! And proto heavies...... My god..... As of today you can have proto heavies with a an EHP of over 1700 If they complain after this then idk what they want because they should be able to DESTROY anything so long as they have a half decent logi backing them up. as long as i am not dying fast like in battle field or call of duty 15 im happy.

Meeko Fent Expert Intervention Caldari State 1373	Posted - 2013.11.05 20:43:00 - [61] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Meeko Fent wrote: Dexter307 wrote: Thor McStrut wrote: steadyhand amarr wrote: Last night my iscr went from good to godly so HP across the board might need boosting back up That or the 10% damage boost removed. A 10% health boost would be better. People react more positively to gains than to losses Good point. Do it please. That should make all well It's only a fix to a fix to another fix. Look at grenades. Everyone wants to limit carrying capacity to 2, stop nanohives from restocking them... yadda, yadda, yadda. If anyone remembers, grenades were buffed in the first place because splash damage was coded on a 2D plane which negated damage if your intended target had even a pixel of elevation. Short term fix was to buff them to insane levels. Splash damage was fixed in 1.2 and now they're stupidly OP. Roll back hot fixes before simply trying to nerf or buff things. Remove the emergency 10% damage buff (and all the little ninja changes from 1.0) and reassess what needs to be fixed. Well, that's what I mean. A ten percent buff would nullify the effects of the emergency buff. Get my reasoning? +10% Damage +10% Health It cancels each other out Meeko's Novelty Shop Opening Soon! We (will)sell all the novelty items you desire! Really! King of Uncertainty.
KA24DERT Pure Innocence. EoN. 244	Posted - 2013.11.05 21:50:00 - [62] - Quote Meeko Fent wrote: KA24DERT wrote: One of the first things that should happen to try to balance this out is the total removal of Auto Aim. I'm sure every scrub sucking at that teat will whine, but it's one of the biggest reasons we're all so short-lived now. Second thing that should be looked at is AR Damage, which should start with a 30% nerf in its current form, or a 10% nerf with added dispersion. Third thing that should be looked at is the Forge gun in relation to infantry. It needs a specific Infantry damage nerf, and some degree of dispersion (so that you can hit a tank, but not easily snipe a scout). Address those specific things and strategy, dropsuit fittings, and player skill will regain some of their lost meaning in this game. I like how the community thinks nerfing core mechanics is the answer to short TTK. Either reduce all weapon damage by 10%, or buff HP on all suits by 10% Core mechanics like aiming aren't causing the short TTK, it's the very potent guns. Dial their effect down. Aim Assist isn't to blame and anybody whose played halo knows that. Not every gun needs a nerf. And a 10% nerf on the AR is not enough to make a difference. Aim Assist has a large part in the reduction of battlefield longevity, it's just a fact. How could you argue that computer assisted aiming does not contribute to damage dealt? Aim Assist isn't a required mechanic, it's a crutch for people who can't aim, and the game was just fine without it. It's the first thing that should go in an attempt to rebalance things. Failing that, the AR needs a 30% nerf, or 10% nerf with more dispersion.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 318	Posted - 2013.11.05 22:06:00 - [63] - Quote The TTK is too short, sure, but I like the game better in many ways now. To be clear, I'm no twitch-shooter master, and would likely do much better with a longer TTK. I've personally never seen the aim-bot in action, maybe it doesn't change what I do much, idk. But, like others have said, this is clearly the result of a long list of hotfixes put in to compensate for poor hit detection and other core issues. I think that's a more likely explanation than the thought that this short of a TTK is what the devs had in mind. BUT.... too twitchy or not, I very much appreciate the fact that it's not completely random whether or not my shots hit the target and I, not the server, has the most influence on whether or not I lose a firefight. Unfortunately, there's not much point making a major balance pass right now with the new weapons coming out in a month. It would be wasted effort to an extent because the rail and combat rifles need to be out in the wild for a while before we know what really needs to be done. A 10% health buff might help a little, but I just hate the idea of stacking yet another hotfix on top of the pile now. It also probably wouldn't do a whole lot to remedy the disparity between the AR and most other weapons. It would still be king, but just kill you a little slower. Templar'd for her pleasure Amarr victor!
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2983	Posted - 2013.11.06 00:00:00 - [64] - Quote There's serveral issues here. When 1.4 originally released, I thought protobears were just whining about Aim-Assist. I didn't "feel it". It turned out I had aim-assist off. It does make a noticeable difference, tugging your reticule to and fro noticeably even if you have your sensitivity configured to make it less effective (it was observed that configuration of sensitivity apparently had some impact on the degree of impact of the AA). The improvements in hit-detection are another piece of the puzzle. If your AR/SMG/whatever lands most of its clip, whether AA or hit-detection related, the dynamics of weapon DPS shift greatly from when that wasn't the case. I think this (and the fact its a default weapon and there aren't many other options as flexible) is a big part of the AR issue. I have proficiency 5 with scrambler rifles, and you can take people down very very quick with them, but oddly you can take people down with exile and 0 SP invested pretty damn easily as well. I try to avoid making these TTK discussions about the AR because I think it comes off as a "nerf ARs" flame/*****-fest. TTK would be short regardless of whether or not the AR existed. BUT, it definitely has a very very easy time killing people even with little to no skill investment. I don't like what Dust is now, it's more twitchy than Halo with shorter TTK. Maybe some people like that sort of game. I'd like to think Dust is supposed to be a different sort of game like that. However, if the masses of people acclimated to CoD-type games warble and blarrg about how this is what the game is supposed to be (because it's all they know, or what they're familiar with) then the chance to have a game that's actually different or worth a damn is lost. Maybe that sort of shooter would be popular anyway, it just wouldn't be a shooter I'd play.
Alpha 443-6732 211	Posted - 2013.11.06 00:24:00 - [65] - Quote Honestly, if CCP is going in the low TTK direction, they should increase weapon ranges so that tactical and situational awareness is focused upon more than who can move randomly the longest while spraying at their enemies. Low ttk =/= twitch shooter low ttk with low range or forced cqc = twitch shooter AV =/= Completely dominate and render vehicles useless. AV = Counterpart of vehicles that combats vehicles.
Zyrus Amalomyn Militaires-Sans-Frontieres 273	Posted - 2013.11.06 00:33:00 - [66] - Quote When I tried the Aim assist build, I was completely shocked at how short TTK was at that moment, on top of the incredibly bad mouse aiming that made me quit this game. I realize hit detection was screwy... but fixing both just ruined the gameplay for me. I was interested in tactical movements and using crouch to make long range aiming viable. This? This is COD in space, and I'll not play it.
Cosgar ParagonX 7364	Posted - 2013.11.06 00:45:00 - [67] - Quote Alpha 443-6732 wrote: Honestly, if CCP is going in the low TTK direction, they should increase weapon ranges so that tactical and situational awareness is focused upon more than who can move randomly the longest while spraying at their enemies. Low ttk =/= twitch shooter low ttk with low range or forced cqc = twitch shooter I'm pretty sure many of us want Dust to be better than that. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Nguruthos IX PEN 15 CLUB 2101	Posted - 2013.11.06 00:48:00 - [68] - Quote CoD 514?
Soldner VonKuechle SAM-MIK 256	Posted - 2013.11.06 00:48:00 - [69] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Alpha 443-6732 wrote: Honestly, if CCP is going in the low TTK direction, they should increase weapon ranges so that tactical and situational awareness is focused upon more than who can move randomly the longest while spraying at their enemies. Low ttk =/= twitch shooter low ttk with low range or forced cqc = twitch shooter I'm pretty sure many of us want Dust to be better than that. That's the reason we re all still here right? Something witty here. How about? #DELAY 514 ... been waiting for a rail rifle longer than SoTa's been trolling.
Cosgar ParagonX 7364	Posted - 2013.11.06 00:51:00 - [70] - Quote Soldner VonKuechle wrote: Cosgar wrote: Alpha 443-6732 wrote: Honestly, if CCP is going in the low TTK direction, they should increase weapon ranges so that tactical and situational awareness is focused upon more than who can move randomly the longest while spraying at their enemies. Low ttk =/= twitch shooter low ttk with low range or forced cqc = twitch shooter I'm pretty sure many of us want Dust to be better than that. That's the reason we re all still here right? And it's the reason why many of us are leaving as well. CCP can't get core mechanics right and it's going to kill this game. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"

Soldner VonKuechle SAM-MIK 257	Posted - 2013.11.06 01:15:00 - [71] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Soldner VonKuechle wrote: Cosgar wrote: Alpha 443-6732 wrote: Honestly, if CCP is going in the low TTK direction, they should increase weapon ranges so that tactical and situational awareness is focused upon more than who can move randomly the longest while spraying at their enemies. Low ttk =/= twitch shooter low ttk with low range or forced cqc = twitch shooter I'm pretty sure many of us want Dust to be better than that. That's the reason we re all still here right? And it's the reason why many of us are leaving as well. CCP can't get core mechanics right and it's going to kill this game. Stupid eternal optimism. Something witty here. How about? #DELAY 514 ... been waiting for a rail rifle longer than SoTa's been trolling.
Alpha 443-6732 211	Posted - 2013.11.06 01:16:00 - [72] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Alpha 443-6732 wrote: Honestly, if CCP is going in the low TTK direction, they should increase weapon ranges so that tactical and situational awareness is focused upon more than who can move randomly the longest while spraying at their enemies. Low ttk =/= twitch shooter low ttk with low range or forced cqc = twitch shooter I'm pretty sure many of us want Dust to be better than that. Better in what way? Are you suggesting that higher strafe speeds and ttk = more tactical/situational awareness needed? Personally, I don't think DUST could be treated as a serious shooter if ttk (e.g. not lone wolf focused, similar to how eve is a serious space mmo) gets increased while we have the short ranges we have now. It would turn combat into whoever can dance the most while shooting at a target, which was similar to what we had in chromosome. A scout will never be able to perform an ambush/stealth role with it's low health as long as ttk is increased. If ttk is increased to the point of a tracking shooter, ambushes and tactical play will be nerfed to where only aiming "skill" and strafing are the only defining factors in a fight, which is ridiculous and just a way for the l33t players to prevent getting outplayed tactically. In my opinion, adding range while keeping the current ttk would allow for more use of cover and increase the need to be aware of your situation before engaging. It would allow more control over situations and promote teamwork, while reducing the usefulness of simply "ramboing" targets and charging through the open to kill people (instead, having people positioned around an area to lock it down, having the ability to fire at targets moving throughout the open). Weapons would be powerful, but you would have a much higher likelihood of avoiding it altogether with some thought beforehand. AV =/= Completely dominate and render vehicles useless. AV = Counterpart of vehicles that combats vehicles.
Bethhy Ancient Exiles 270	Posted - 2013.11.06 01:25:00 - [73] - Quote CCP's classic double buffing..... People are complaining about aiming mechanics?? we will give them a device to assist them aim~ and then fix hit detection... If we all actually had to do our own tracking of the target's it becomes alot more challenging... as it's sometimes hard to predict which way a player will move or how.... With those finer choices being made for you as long as you get your aim on at the start... is kinda.. pointless to me.. i really could play GTA 5 where cover and autolock gameplay was actually built for the game... Dust's butt clenching long drag out fights are gone... and to me it's lost any unique feel it's had over other FPS's it used to keep me from. I do hope it's addressed as there really isn't any reason to play DUST other then friends.
Cosgar ParagonX 7365	Posted - 2013.11.06 01:29:00 - [74] - Quote Alpha 443-6732 wrote: Cosgar wrote: Alpha 443-6732 wrote: Honestly, if CCP is going in the low TTK direction, they should increase weapon ranges so that tactical and situational awareness is focused upon more than who can move randomly the longest while spraying at their enemies. Low ttk =/= twitch shooter low ttk with low range or forced cqc = twitch shooter I'm pretty sure many of us want Dust to be better than that. Better in what way? Are you suggesting that higher strafe speeds and ttk = more tactical/situational awareness needed? Personally, I don't think DUST could be treated as a serious shooter if ttk (e.g. not lone wolf focused, similar to how eve is a serious space mmo) gets increased while we have the short ranges we have now. It would turn combat into whoever can dance the most while shooting at a target, which was similar to what we had in chromosome. A scout will never be able to perform an ambush/stealth role with it's low health as long as ttk is increased. If ttk is increased to the point of a tracking shooter, ambushes and tactical play will be nerfed to where only aiming "skill" and strafing are the only defining factors in a fight, which is ridiculous and just a way for the l33t players to prevent getting outplayed tactically. In my opinion, adding range while keeping the current ttk would allow for more use of cover and increase the need to be aware of your situation before engaging. It would allow more control over situations and promote teamwork, while reducing the usefulness of simply "ramboing" targets and charging through the open to kill people (instead, having people positioned around an area to lock it down, having the ability to fire at targets moving throughout the open). Weapons would be powerful, but you would have a much higher likelihood of avoiding it altogether with some thought beforehand. Plain and simple, we have enough of this style of play on the market and they do it better than Dust ever will. This game needs to be better by being different. There's nothing tactical about Dust, there's tactics, but it was never tactical outside the one assault rifle variant. A reviewer that leaked early beta footage on YouTube (his name escapes me right now) said it best when he said Dust 514 is "a thinking man's FPS." Gauge your target, retreat if needed, flank and pincer to win fit your suit to match your playstyle. These were core principals that have been forgotten. The meta game is dead and stacking damage mods with armor plates has taken its place. This wasn't the FPS I fell in love with all those years ago. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Alpha 443-6732 211	Posted - 2013.11.06 01:32:00 - [75] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Alpha 443-6732 wrote: Cosgar wrote: Alpha 443-6732 wrote: Honestly, if CCP is going in the low TTK direction, they should increase weapon ranges so that tactical and situational awareness is focused upon more than who can move randomly the longest while spraying at their enemies. Low ttk =/= twitch shooter low ttk with low range or forced cqc = twitch shooter I'm pretty sure many of us want Dust to be better than that. Better in what way? Are you suggesting that higher strafe speeds and ttk = more tactical/situational awareness needed? Personally, I don't think DUST could be treated as a serious shooter if ttk (e.g. not lone wolf focused, similar to how eve is a serious space mmo) gets increased while we have the short ranges we have now. It would turn combat into whoever can dance the most while shooting at a target, which was similar to what we had in chromosome. A scout will never be able to perform an ambush/stealth role with it's low health as long as ttk is increased. If ttk is increased to the point of a tracking shooter, ambushes and tactical play will be nerfed to where only aiming "skill" and strafing are the only defining factors in a fight, which is ridiculous and just a way for the l33t players to prevent getting outplayed tactically. In my opinion, adding range while keeping the current ttk would allow for more use of cover and increase the need to be aware of your situation before engaging. It would allow more control over situations and promote teamwork, while reducing the usefulness of simply "ramboing" targets and charging through the open to kill people (instead, having people positioned around an area to lock it down, having the ability to fire at targets moving throughout the open). Weapons would be powerful, but you would have a much higher likelihood of avoiding it altogether with some thought beforehand. Plain and simple, we have enough of this style of play on the market and they do it better than Dust ever will. This game needs to be better by being different. There's nothing tactical about Dust, there's tactics, but it was never tactical outside the one assault rifle variant. A reviewer that leaked early beta footage on YouTube (his name escapes me right now) said it best when he said Dust 514 is "a thinking man's FPS." Gauge your target, retreat if needed, flank and pincer to win fit your suit to match your playstyle. These were core principals that have been forgotten. The meta game is dead and stacking damage mods with armor plates has taken its place. This wasn't the FPS I fell in love with all those years ago. What's wrong with DUST being a hybrid tracking/tactical instead of either? Wouldn't that be best? An increase to HP so that people can survive multiple bullets but the range to make cover and battlefield tactics worth the effort? AV =/= Completely dominate and render vehicles useless. AV = Counterpart of vehicles that combats vehicles.
Cosgar ParagonX 7365	Posted - 2013.11.06 01:38:00 - [76] - Quote Alpha 443-6732 wrote: What's wrong with DUST being a hybrid tracking/tactical instead of either? Wouldn't that be best? An increase to HP so that people can survive multiple bullets but the range to make cover and battlefield tactics worth the effort? Weapons had crazy range with the sharpshooter in Chromosome. They removed it because it broke the game. I'd rather not go back to snipers that could snipe you from one reline to the other and lasers that can melt an entire team just by waving it across the map. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Alpha 443-6732 211	Posted - 2013.11.06 01:44:00 - [77] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Alpha 443-6732 wrote: What's wrong with DUST being a hybrid tracking/tactical instead of either? Wouldn't that be best? An increase to HP so that people can survive multiple bullets but the range to make cover and battlefield tactics worth the effort? Weapons had crazy range with the sharpshooter in Chromosome. They removed it because it broke the game. I'd rather not go back to snipers that could snipe you from one reline to the other and lasers that can melt an entire team just by waving it across the map. Honestly, I enjoyed sharpshooter. Lasers had broken damage, not range. Snipers weren't that much of a problem if you knew how to move erratically. Sharpshooter as a skill was broken, though. Just because of a little poor execution, doesn't mean the actual idea is bad. AV =/= Completely dominate and render vehicles useless. AV = Counterpart of vehicles that combats vehicles.
Cosgar ParagonX 7365	Posted - 2013.11.06 01:46:00 - [78] - Quote Alpha 443-6732 wrote: Cosgar wrote: Alpha 443-6732 wrote: What's wrong with DUST being a hybrid tracking/tactical instead of either? Wouldn't that be best? An increase to HP so that people can survive multiple bullets but the range to make cover and battlefield tactics worth the effort? Weapons had crazy range with the sharpshooter in Chromosome. They removed it because it broke the game. I'd rather not go back to snipers that could snipe you from one reline to the other and lasers that can melt an entire team just by waving it across the map. Honestly, I enjoyed sharpshooter. Lasers had broken damage, not range. Snipers weren't that much of a problem if you knew how to move erratically. Sharpshooter as a skill was broken, though. Just because of a little poor execution, doesn't mean the actual idea is bad. Snipers could only be killed by other snipers, and the laser wasn't really changed in uprising, just the viziam. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Cosgar ParagonX 7368	Posted - 2013.11.06 01:50:00 - [79] - Quote The fact of the matter is this isn't what Dust was advertised as. Whether you agree or not, this game was released on 5/14. You can't just change core mechanics from one thing to the next each patch. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Vyzion Eyri The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 1818	Posted - 2013.11.06 02:01:00 - [80] - Quote Cosgar wrote: It's only a fix to a fix to another fix. Look at grenades. Everyone wants to limit carrying capacity to 2, stop nanohives from restocking them... yadda, yadda, yadda. If anyone remembers, grenades were buffed in the first place because splash damage was coded on a 2D plane which negated damage if your intended target had even a pixel of elevation. Short term fix was to buff them to insane levels. Splash damage was fixed in 1.2 and now they're stupidly OP. Roll back hot fixes before simply trying to nerf or buff things. Remove the emergency 10% damage buff (and all the little ninja changes from 1.0) and reassess what needs to be fixed. Assumptions. How do you know fixing TTK isn't making an assumption that will become equally redundant in the future? How do you know this isn't a short-term fix to a deeper problem? What if, this time next year, people are asking CCP to roll back the TTK fixes because now, with better EWAR mechanics, shield bubbles and cloaking, it takes TOO long to find and kill people? "..things that some people frankly don't even get the chance to do in real life, because it's poorly designed." -Veigar

Cosgar ParagonX 7370	Posted - 2013.11.06 02:05:00 - [81] - Quote Vyzion Eyri wrote: Cosgar wrote: It's only a fix to a fix to another fix. Look at grenades. Everyone wants to limit carrying capacity to 2, stop nanohives from restocking them... yadda, yadda, yadda. If anyone remembers, grenades were buffed in the first place because splash damage was coded on a 2D plane which negated damage if your intended target had even a pixel of elevation. Short term fix was to buff them to insane levels. Splash damage was fixed in 1.2 and now they're stupidly OP. Roll back hot fixes before simply trying to nerf or buff things. Remove the emergency 10% damage buff (and all the little ninja changes from 1.0) and reassess what needs to be fixed. Assumptions. How do you know fixing TTK isn't making an assumption that will become equally redundant in the future? How do you know this isn't a short-term fix to a deeper problem? What if, this time next year, people are asking CCP to roll back the TTK fixes because now, with better EWAR mechanics, shield bubbles and cloaking, it takes TOO long to find and kill people? Seen that road map CCP keeps talking about yet? They keep us in the dark because they're just playing everything by ear. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Killar-12 The Corporate Raiders Top Men. 1636	Posted - 2013.11.06 02:14:00 - [82] - Quote Pull out the 10% extra damage if not 20% of damage off of everything Execpt The Nova Knives and Plasma Cannon... CEO of The Corporate Raiders, We're still recruiting... Level 1 Forum Warrior
Vyzion Eyri The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 1819	Posted - 2013.11.06 02:14:00 - [83] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Vyzion Eyri wrote: Cosgar wrote: It's only a fix to a fix to another fix. Look at grenades. Everyone wants to limit carrying capacity to 2, stop nanohives from restocking them... yadda, yadda, yadda. If anyone remembers, grenades were buffed in the first place because splash damage was coded on a 2D plane which negated damage if your intended target had even a pixel of elevation. Short term fix was to buff them to insane levels. Splash damage was fixed in 1.2 and now they're stupidly OP. Roll back hot fixes before simply trying to nerf or buff things. Remove the emergency 10% damage buff (and all the little ninja changes from 1.0) and reassess what needs to be fixed. Assumptions. How do you know fixing TTK isn't making an assumption that will become equally redundant in the future? How do you know this isn't a short-term fix to a deeper problem? What if, this time next year, people are asking CCP to roll back the TTK fixes because now, with better EWAR mechanics, shield bubbles and cloaking, it takes TOO long to find and kill people? Seen that road map CCP keeps talking about yet? They keep us in the dark because they're just playing everything by ear. The specifics they're playing by ear, but on a grander scale (one of the things I do admire about CCP) they have their eyes on the ball. DUST can reach its potential, but if you're right and they are improvising the core mechanics as they go, then I suggest we don't get involved and make these massive generalised assumptions that sound good on paper but would simply delay the game from progressing in the future. I'm opposed to increasing TTK because I fear it will spark a discussion months down the road as to whether or not we should "bring back the 10% damage buff from Uprising that was removed in 1.7", and also because honestly I haven't seen real reasons as to why TTK should increase. I mean, people are basing TTK on the time an enemy begins shooting to the time you die, for god's sake! Is TTK not the time between your respawn, and your death? Are you not doing anything during that time to prevent yourself from dying? Essentially what this is telling me is that people are mindlessly jumping into combat, then basing all these assumptions about TTK over those few seconds, instead of broadening the scope to what they were doing when they respawned, and how much information they had about what the situation they just rocketed into. "..things that some people frankly don't even get the chance to do in real life, because it's poorly designed." -Veigar
Cosgar ParagonX 7370	Posted - 2013.11.06 02:21:00 - [84] - Quote Vyzion Eyri wrote: Cosgar wrote: Vyzion Eyri wrote: Cosgar wrote: It's only a fix to a fix to another fix. Look at grenades. Everyone wants to limit carrying capacity to 2, stop nanohives from restocking them... yadda, yadda, yadda. If anyone remembers, grenades were buffed in the first place because splash damage was coded on a 2D plane which negated damage if your intended target had even a pixel of elevation. Short term fix was to buff them to insane levels. Splash damage was fixed in 1.2 and now they're stupidly OP. Roll back hot fixes before simply trying to nerf or buff things. Remove the emergency 10% damage buff (and all the little ninja changes from 1.0) and reassess what needs to be fixed. Assumptions. How do you know fixing TTK isn't making an assumption that will become equally redundant in the future? How do you know this isn't a short-term fix to a deeper problem? What if, this time next year, people are asking CCP to roll back the TTK fixes because now, with better EWAR mechanics, shield bubbles and cloaking, it takes TOO long to find and kill people? Seen that road map CCP keeps talking about yet? They keep us in the dark because they're just playing everything by ear. The specifics they're playing by ear, but on a grander scale (one of the things I do admire about CCP) they have their eyes on the ball. DUST can reach its potential, but if you're right and they are improvising the core mechanics as they go, then I suggest we don't get involved and make these massive generalised assumptions that sound good on paper but would simply delay the game from progressing in the future. I'm opposed to increasing TTK because I fear it will spark a discussion months down the road as to whether or not we should "bring back the 10% damage buff from Uprising that was removed in 1.7", and also because honestly I haven't seen real reasons as to why TTK should increase. I mean, people are basing TTK on the time an enemy begins shooting to the time you die, for god's sake! Is TTK not the time between your respawn, and your death? Are you not doing anything during that time to prevent yourself from dying? Essentially what this is telling me is that people are mindlessly jumping into combat, then basing all these assumptions about TTK over those few seconds, instead of broadening the scope to what they were doing when they respawned, and how much information they had about what the situation they just rocketed into. Do anything to prevent yourself from dying? Most maps barely have any cover, strafing is all but dead, the armor buff gives suits the option to gank and tank at the same time, and it all comes down to who sees who first and how many damage mods they have stacked on their Duvolle. Everything that made this game even resemble a FPS is gone and stop pretending that this is in line with some imaginary road map. Even if it is by some mystifying chance, CCP really, really needs to get their **** together and focus on the here and now, instead of 10 years for now. Ask a sentinel if they like their bonus for a weapon that's not in the game yet and see if they like CCP's plan.. Edit: Could use Tapatalk here and now too. Phone lag causes too many typos. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Vyzion Eyri The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 1820	Posted - 2013.11.06 02:41:00 - [85] - Quote The way I see it, the only reason this topic of TTK got traction is because we've oversimplified the matter. There are so many factors, and you've listed some for me. Lack of cover, grenades, EWAR, new weapons, new equipment, new skills, armour and shields, damage modifiers, strafing, tiers. If all of this was mentioned in the OP instead of now, people would be uninterested because it's too complex for them to care about. BUT, instead, all I see is "TTK TOO SHORT" with some half-assed examples as to why. And this is what you want CCP to focus 'here and now' on? I'm arguing against you guys because your reasons are superficial. No cover? NULL cannons are cover. Rock formations. Barrels. Rooms. Dips. Trenches. Mountains. Towers. Pipes. Walls. Buildings. Structures. Doorways. I, personally, don't need CCP to label a wall with a convenient hole for shooting out of "cover" for me. If TTK lengthens, 'everything that made this game even resemble an FPS is gone'. I'm going to use that against you here, because an FPS involves tactics. It is tactical, I think we both agree. But if people can get away with pounding each other with dozens of bullets only to regenerate after hiding for a few seconds, is it going to be tactical or is it going to be front-line vs. front-line until the side with the better guns pushes through? Damage mods and Duvolles will be MORE of a problem when you increase TTK because increasing TTK lengthens gametime, and over time the DPS a prototype weapon scales and higher faster than that of an Exile AR, for example. Oh, and feel free to make as many typos as you want. This is a discussion not a spelling class. I don't make petty assumptions on another man's intelligence because they misspelled a few words. "..things that some people frankly don't even get the chance to do in real life, because it's poorly designed." -Veigar
Cosgar ParagonX 7374	Posted - 2013.11.06 03:10:00 - [86] - Quote Vyzion Eyri wrote: The way I see it, the only reason this topic of TTK got traction is because we've oversimplified the matter. There are so many factors, and you've listed some for me. Lack of cover, grenades, EWAR, new weapons, new equipment, new skills, armour and shields, damage modifiers, strafing, tiers. If all of this was mentioned in the OP instead of now, people would be uninterested because it's too complex for them to care about. BUT, instead, all I see is "TTK TOO SHORT" with some half-assed examples as to why. And this is what you want CCP to focus 'here and now' on? I'm arguing against you guys because your reasons are superficial. No cover? NULL cannons are cover. Rock formations. Barrels. Rooms. Dips. Trenches. Mountains. Towers. Pipes. Walls. Buildings. Structures. Doorways. I, personally, don't need CCP to label a wall with a convenient hole for shooting out of "cover" for me. If TTK lengthens, 'everything that made this game even resemble an FPS is gone'. I'm going to use that against you here, because an FPS involves tactics. It is tactical, I think we both agree. But if people can get away with pounding each other with dozens of bullets only to regenerate after hiding for a few seconds, is it going to be tactical or is it going to be front-line vs. front-line until the side with the better guns pushes through? Damage mods and Duvolles will be MORE of a problem when you increase TTK because increasing TTK lengthens gametime, and over time the DPS a prototype weapon scales and higher faster than that of an Exile AR, for example. You seem to have your own bias. I'm glad the ball is in CCP's court because I doubt there would be very many people playing if you called the shots. Everyone invests their time, grinding for character growth and to improve their fit. When you invest millions of ISK over a month into your survivability, it should be more than a fraction of a second. People had issues with one suit and one rifle in earlier uprising that eliminated the need to use anything else and CCP fixed the problem, how is this any different? Also, this has been brought up since 1.4 but like everything else around here that isn't a hot topic of the month, it goes ignored. Quote: Oh, and feel free to make as many typos as you want. This is a discussion not a spelling class. I don't make petty assumptions on another man's intelligence because they misspelled a few words. Personally, I don't care what people think of my spelling except me. I make corrections because I think it obstructs whatever point I'm trying to convey at the time. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Vyzion Eyri The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 1821	Posted - 2013.11.06 03:19:00 - [87] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Vyzion Eyri wrote: The way I see it, the only reason this topic of TTK got traction is because we've oversimplified the matter. There are so many factors, and you've listed some for me. Lack of cover, grenades, EWAR, new weapons, new equipment, new skills, armour and shields, damage modifiers, strafing, tiers. If all of this was mentioned in the OP instead of now, people would be uninterested because it's too complex for them to care about. BUT, instead, all I see is "TTK TOO SHORT" with some half-assed examples as to why. And this is what you want CCP to focus 'here and now' on? I'm arguing against you guys because your reasons are superficial. No cover? NULL cannons are cover. Rock formations. Barrels. Rooms. Dips. Trenches. Mountains. Towers. Pipes. Walls. Buildings. Structures. Doorways. I, personally, don't need CCP to label a wall with a convenient hole for shooting out of "cover" for me. If TTK lengthens, 'everything that made this game even resemble an FPS is gone'. I'm going to use that against you here, because an FPS involves tactics. It is tactical, I think we both agree. But if people can get away with pounding each other with dozens of bullets only to regenerate after hiding for a few seconds, is it going to be tactical or is it going to be front-line vs. front-line until the side with the better guns pushes through? Damage mods and Duvolles will be MORE of a problem when you increase TTK because increasing TTK lengthens gametime, and over time the DPS a prototype weapon scales and higher faster than that of an Exile AR, for example. You seem to have your own bias. I'm glad the ball is in CCP's court because I doubt there would be very many people playing if you called the shots. Everyone invests their time, grinding for character growth and to improve their fit. When you invest millions of ISK over a month into your survivability, it should be more than a fraction of a second. People had issues with one suit and one rifle in earlier uprising that eliminated the need to use anything else and CCP fixed the problem, how is this any different? Also, this has been brought up since 1.4 but like everything else around here that isn't a hot topic of the month, it goes ignored. We all have our own opinions, and I am also glad I'm not in charge of this game. I invest my time because it's extremely fun to play with my corporation, to fly dropships, to be a logibro. And an interesting point: how is the CalLogi, the flaylock and the DTAR different? Because as I've been saying, this is oversimplifying the matter. We're pointing at "TTK" in general, and saying it's too low. All those previous changes, even the one to armour, had a focus! This doesn't. This is saying go change everything. You've suggested changes to grenades before, if you had mentioned and stuck to that I would've been happy to accept your premise. But removing the 10% damage buff (that was there to compensate for the loss of the 2% per level of Weaponry, which everyone would have had at level 5 in Chromosome anyway, so surely that couldn't be the problem) is a sweeping change that isn't necessary. That WILL increase TTK, sure, but what happens next? Nothing. The Duvolle stacked with damage mods still kills more than anything else, just a little slower. Relatively speaking, nothing changes. So what really are you focusing on? Where is your real argument? TTK is more abstract than modern art. "..things that some people frankly don't even get the chance to do in real life, because it's poorly designed." -Veigar
Cosgar ParagonX 7376	Posted - 2013.11.06 03:29:00 - [88] - Quote Vyzion Eyri wrote: Cosgar wrote: Vyzion Eyri wrote: The way I see it, the only reason this topic of TTK got traction is because we've oversimplified the matter. There are so many factors, and you've listed some for me. Lack of cover, grenades, EWAR, new weapons, new equipment, new skills, armour and shields, damage modifiers, strafing, tiers. If all of this was mentioned in the OP instead of now, people would be uninterested because it's too complex for them to care about. BUT, instead, all I see is "TTK TOO SHORT" with some half-assed examples as to why. And this is what you want CCP to focus 'here and now' on? I'm arguing against you guys because your reasons are superficial. No cover? NULL cannons are cover. Rock formations. Barrels. Rooms. Dips. Trenches. Mountains. Towers. Pipes. Walls. Buildings. Structures. Doorways. I, personally, don't need CCP to label a wall with a convenient hole for shooting out of "cover" for me. If TTK lengthens, 'everything that made this game even resemble an FPS is gone'. I'm going to use that against you here, because an FPS involves tactics. It is tactical, I think we both agree. But if people can get away with pounding each other with dozens of bullets only to regenerate after hiding for a few seconds, is it going to be tactical or is it going to be front-line vs. front-line until the side with the better guns pushes through? Damage mods and Duvolles will be MORE of a problem when you increase TTK because increasing TTK lengthens gametime, and over time the DPS a prototype weapon scales and higher faster than that of an Exile AR, for example. You seem to have your own bias. I'm glad the ball is in CCP's court because I doubt there would be very many people playing if you called the shots. Everyone invests their time, grinding for character growth and to improve their fit. When you invest millions of ISK over a month into your survivability, it should be more than a fraction of a second. People had issues with one suit and one rifle in earlier uprising that eliminated the need to use anything else and CCP fixed the problem, how is this any different? Also, this has been brought up since 1.4 but like everything else around here that isn't a hot topic of the month, it goes ignored. We all have our own opinions, and I am also glad I'm not in charge of this game. I invest my time because it's extremely fun to play with my corporation, to fly dropships, to be a logibro. But I digress. And an interesting point: how is the CalLogi, the flaylock and the DTAR different? Because as I've been saying, this is oversimplifying the matter. We're pointing at "TTK" in general, and saying it's too low. All those previous changes, even the one to armour, had a focus! This doesn't. This is saying go change everything. You've suggested changes to grenades before, if you had mentioned and stuck to that I would've been happy to accept your premise. But removing the 10% damage buff (that was there to compensate for the loss of the 2% per level of Weaponry, which everyone would have had at level 5 in Chromosome anyway, so surely that couldn't be the problem) is a sweeping change that isn't necessary. That WILL increase TTK, sure, but what happens next? Nothing. The Duvolle stacked with damage mods still kills more than anything else, just a little slower. Relatively speaking, nothing changes. So what really are you focusing on? Where is your real argument? TTK is more abstract than modern art. That 10% buff was implemented because nobody could hit anyone. Ambushes ended based on time and KB/M aiming was horrible. This change had no focus, there hasn't been anything in the patch notes specifying TTK, since 1.0. That's obviously because it's a byproduct of stacking a bunch of fixes. Stop making excuses for CCP, they've even openly said they screwed this build up several times. You can have your meat grinder twitch fest for all I care, I'm going to go play something else until they fix it in 2015 or they finally show that supposed road map. My cup of kool-aid is empty. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Bethhy Ancient Exiles 276	Posted - 2013.11.06 03:37:00 - [89] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Vyzion Eyri wrote: Cosgar wrote: Vyzion Eyri wrote: The way I see it, the only reason this topic of TTK got traction is because we've oversimplified the matter. There are so many factors, and you've listed some for me. Lack of cover, grenades, EWAR, new weapons, new equipment, new skills, armour and shields, damage modifiers, strafing, tiers. If all of this was mentioned in the OP instead of now, people would be uninterested because it's too complex for them to care about. BUT, instead, all I see is "TTK TOO SHORT" with some half-assed examples as to why. And this is what you want CCP to focus 'here and now' on? I'm arguing against you guys because your reasons are superficial. No cover? NULL cannons are cover. Rock formations. Barrels. Rooms. Dips. Trenches. Mountains. Towers. Pipes. Walls. Buildings. Structures. Doorways. I, personally, don't need CCP to label a wall with a convenient hole for shooting out of "cover" for me. If TTK lengthens, 'everything that made this game even resemble an FPS is gone'. I'm going to use that against you here, because an FPS involves tactics. It is tactical, I think we both agree. But if people can get away with pounding each other with dozens of bullets only to regenerate after hiding for a few seconds, is it going to be tactical or is it going to be front-line vs. front-line until the side with the better guns pushes through? Damage mods and Duvolles will be MORE of a problem when you increase TTK because increasing TTK lengthens gametime, and over time the DPS a prototype weapon scales and higher faster than that of an Exile AR, for example. You seem to have your own bias. I'm glad the ball is in CCP's court because I doubt there would be very many people playing if you called the shots. Everyone invests their time, grinding for character growth and to improve their fit. When you invest millions of ISK over a month into your survivability, it should be more than a fraction of a second. People had issues with one suit and one rifle in earlier uprising that eliminated the need to use anything else and CCP fixed the problem, how is this any different? Also, this has been brought up since 1.4 but like everything else around here that isn't a hot topic of the month, it goes ignored. We all have our own opinions, and I am also glad I'm not in charge of this game. I invest my time because it's extremely fun to play with my corporation, to fly dropships, to be a logibro. But I digress. And an interesting point: how is the CalLogi, the flaylock and the DTAR different? Because as I've been saying, this is oversimplifying the matter. We're pointing at "TTK" in general, and saying it's too low. All those previous changes, even the one to armour, had a focus! This doesn't. This is saying go change everything. You've suggested changes to grenades before, if you had mentioned and stuck to that I would've been happy to accept your premise. But removing the 10% damage buff (that was there to compensate for the loss of the 2% per level of Weaponry, which everyone would have had at level 5 in Chromosome anyway, so surely that couldn't be the problem) is a sweeping change that isn't necessary. That WILL increase TTK, sure, but what happens next? Nothing. The Duvolle stacked with damage mods still kills more than anything else, just a little slower. Relatively speaking, nothing changes. So what really are you focusing on? Where is your real argument? TTK is more abstract than modern art. That 10% buff was implemented because nobody could hit anyone. Ambushes ended based on time and KB/M aiming was horrible. This change had no focus, there hasn't been anything in the patch notes specifying TTK, since 1.0. That's obviously because it's a byproduct of stacking a bunch of fixes. Stop making excuses for CCP, they've even openly said they screwed this build up several times. You can have your meat grinder twitch fest for all I care, I'm going to go play something else until they fix it in 2015 or they finally show that supposed road map. My cup of kool-aid is empty. 10% damage didnt come out of thin air.... bangs head against desk Weaponry was a skill that did something 2% damage to all weapons per level... Everyone had level 5 and 10% damage...passively. It was a skill everyone got and gladly... now level 2 and 4 exist purely to **** people off. a skill point sink skill as a MUST for certain classes starting off.. lame 10% is no culprit or fix to anything. specially when we already had that damage in chromosome, with proto suits having 400-500 health and that considered godly amounts.
Vyzion Eyri The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 1821	Posted - 2013.11.06 03:45:00 - [90] - Quote Cosgar wrote: That 10% buff was implemented because nobody could hit anyone. Ambushes ended based on time and KB/M aiming was horrible. This change had no focus, there hasn't been anything in the patch notes specifying TTK, since 1.0. That's obviously because it's a byproduct of stacking a bunch of fixes. Stop making excuses for CCP, they've even openly said they screwed this build up several times. You can have your meat grinder twitch fest for all I care, I'm going to go play something else until they fix it in 2015 or they finally show that supposed road map. My cup of kool-aid is empty. I'm as disenchanted as you, or else I wouldn't be arguing. I don't make excuses for CCP in any other thread requesting change except here, not because my kool-aid cup has a drop more than yours, but because I personally believe this won't work. I've listed my reasons, you've listed yours. If you still believe you're right, I will still believe you're wrong. In the end one of us will have the greater influence over CCP, and it'll probably be you because the community appears to be all for higher TTK. I'll be here to watch it all pan out anyway, and I sincerely hope I won't have to think "I told them." "..things that some people frankly don't even get the chance to do in real life, because it's poorly designed." -Veigar

Cosgar ParagonX 7378	Posted - 2013.11.06 03:51:00 - [91] - Quote Bethhy wrote: Cosgar wrote: Vyzion Eyri wrote: Cosgar wrote: Vyzion Eyri wrote: The way I see it, the only reason this topic of TTK got traction is because we've oversimplified the matter. There are so many factors, and you've listed some for me. Lack of cover, grenades, EWAR, new weapons, new equipment, new skills, armour and shields, damage modifiers, strafing, tiers. If all of this was mentioned in the OP instead of now, people would be uninterested because it's too complex for them to care about. BUT, instead, all I see is "TTK TOO SHORT" with some half-assed examples as to why. And this is what you want CCP to focus 'here and now' on? I'm arguing against you guys because your reasons are superficial. No cover? NULL cannons are cover. Rock formations. Barrels. Rooms. Dips. Trenches. Mountains. Towers. Pipes. Walls. Buildings. Structures. Doorways. I, personally, don't need CCP to label a wall with a convenient hole for shooting out of "cover" for me. If TTK lengthens, 'everything that made this game even resemble an FPS is gone'. I'm going to use that against you here, because an FPS involves tactics. It is tactical, I think we both agree. But if people can get away with pounding each other with dozens of bullets only to regenerate after hiding for a few seconds, is it going to be tactical or is it going to be front-line vs. front-line until the side with the better guns pushes through? Damage mods and Duvolles will be MORE of a problem when you increase TTK because increasing TTK lengthens gametime, and over time the DPS a prototype weapon scales and higher faster than that of an Exile AR, for example. You seem to have your own bias. I'm glad the ball is in CCP's court because I doubt there would be very many people playing if you called the shots. Everyone invests their time, grinding for character growth and to improve their fit. When you invest millions of ISK over a month into your survivability, it should be more than a fraction of a second. People had issues with one suit and one rifle in earlier uprising that eliminated the need to use anything else and CCP fixed the problem, how is this any different? Also, this has been brought up since 1.4 but like everything else around here that isn't a hot topic of the month, it goes ignored. We all have our own opinions, and I am also glad I'm not in charge of this game. I invest my time because it's extremely fun to play with my corporation, to fly dropships, to be a logibro. But I digress. And an interesting point: how is the CalLogi, the flaylock and the DTAR different? Because as I've been saying, this is oversimplifying the matter. We're pointing at "TTK" in general, and saying it's too low. All those previous changes, even the one to armour, had a focus! This doesn't. This is saying go change everything. You've suggested changes to grenades before, if you had mentioned and stuck to that I would've been happy to accept your premise. But removing the 10% damage buff (that was there to compensate for the loss of the 2% per level of Weaponry, which everyone would have had at level 5 in Chromosome anyway, so surely that couldn't be the problem) is a sweeping change that isn't necessary. That WILL increase TTK, sure, but what happens next? Nothing. The Duvolle stacked with damage mods still kills more than anything else, just a little slower. Relatively speaking, nothing changes. So what really are you focusing on? Where is your real argument? TTK is more abstract than modern art. That 10% buff was implemented because nobody could hit anyone. Ambushes ended based on time and KB/M aiming was horrible. This change had no focus, there hasn't been anything in the patch notes specifying TTK, since 1.0. That's obviously because it's a byproduct of stacking a bunch of fixes. Stop making excuses for CCP, they've even openly said they screwed this build up several times. You can have your meat grinder twitch fest for all I care, I'm going to go play something else until they fix it in 2015 or they finally show that supposed road map. My cup of kool-aid is empty. 10% damage didnt come out of thin air.... bangs head against desk Weaponry was a skill that did something 2% damage to all weapons per level... Everyone had level 5 and 10% damage...passively. It was a skill everyone got and gladly... now level 2 and 4 exist purely to **** people off. a skill point sink skill as a MUST for certain classes starting off.. lame 10% is no culprit or fix to anything. specially when we already had that damage in chromosome, with proto suits having 400-500 health and that considered godly amounts. If that were the case, they would have given the -2% scanning profile back to the dropsuit command skill. Hell, the damn weaponry skill would say +2% damage per level but it doesn't. You're comparing an older build to a newer one. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Cosgar ParagonX 7378	Posted - 2013.11.06 03:54:00 - [92] - Quote Vyzion Eyri wrote: Cosgar wrote: That 10% buff was implemented because nobody could hit anyone. Ambushes ended based on time and KB/M aiming was horrible. This change had no focus, there hasn't been anything in the patch notes specifying TTK, since 1.0. That's obviously because it's a byproduct of stacking a bunch of fixes. Stop making excuses for CCP, they've even openly said they screwed this build up several times. You can have your meat grinder twitch fest for all I care, I'm going to go play something else until they fix it in 2015 or they finally show that supposed road map. My cup of kool-aid is empty. I'm as disenchanted as you, or else I wouldn't be arguing. I don't make excuses for CCP in any other thread requesting change except here, not because my kool-aid cup has a drop more than yours, but because I personally believe this won't work. I've listed my reasons, you've listed yours. If you still believe you're right, I will still believe you're wrong. In the end one of us will have the greater influence over CCP, and it'll probably be you because the community appears to be all for higher TTK. I'll be here to watch it all pan out anyway, and I sincerely hope I won't have to think "I told them." I said my peace across multiple pages. I'm just one guy that plays the game. It's up to the CPM and CCP to take the next step. Arguing on here doesn't make a difference unless I'm crying about mass drivers or flaylock pistols. I should probably thank CCP for making these blunders. It reminds me that I shouldn't get so invested in this game when they still can't figure out what the hell it's supposed to be after a year of beta. Maybe I'll take this time to finish Dark Souls. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Himiko Kuronaga The Generals EoN. 2159	Posted - 2013.11.06 04:48:00 - [93] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Vyzion Eyri wrote: Cosgar wrote: That 10% buff was implemented because nobody could hit anyone. Ambushes ended based on time and KB/M aiming was horrible. This change had no focus, there hasn't been anything in the patch notes specifying TTK, since 1.0. That's obviously because it's a byproduct of stacking a bunch of fixes. Stop making excuses for CCP, they've even openly said they screwed this build up several times. You can have your meat grinder twitch fest for all I care, I'm going to go play something else until they fix it in 2015 or they finally show that supposed road map. My cup of kool-aid is empty. I'm as disenchanted as you, or else I wouldn't be arguing. I don't make excuses for CCP in any other thread requesting change except here, not because my kool-aid cup has a drop more than yours, but because I personally believe this won't work. I've listed my reasons, you've listed yours. If you still believe you're right, I will still believe you're wrong. In the end one of us will have the greater influence over CCP, and it'll probably be you because the community appears to be all for higher TTK. I'll be here to watch it all pan out anyway, and I sincerely hope I won't have to think "I told them." I said my peace across multiple pages. I'm just one guy that plays the game. It's up to the CPM and CCP to take the next step. Arguing on here doesn't make a difference unless I'm crying about mass drivers or flaylock pistols. I should probably thank CCP for making these blunders. It reminds me that I shouldn't get so invested in this game when they still can't figure out what the hell it's supposed to be after a year of beta. Maybe I'll take this time to finish Dark Souls. You haven't already? That is a mortal sin.
Alpha 443-6732 211	Posted - 2013.11.06 05:20:00 - [94] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Vyzion Eyri wrote: Cosgar wrote: That 10% buff was implemented because nobody could hit anyone. Ambushes ended based on time and KB/M aiming was horrible. This change had no focus, there hasn't been anything in the patch notes specifying TTK, since 1.0. That's obviously because it's a byproduct of stacking a bunch of fixes. Stop making excuses for CCP, they've even openly said they screwed this build up several times. You can have your meat grinder twitch fest for all I care, I'm going to go play something else until they fix it in 2015 or they finally show that supposed road map. My cup of kool-aid is empty. I'm as disenchanted as you, or else I wouldn't be arguing. I don't make excuses for CCP in any other thread requesting change except here, not because my kool-aid cup has a drop more than yours, but because I personally believe this won't work. I've listed my reasons, you've listed yours. If you still believe you're right, I will still believe you're wrong. In the end one of us will have the greater influence over CCP, and it'll probably be you because the community appears to be all for higher TTK. I'll be here to watch it all pan out anyway, and I sincerely hope I won't have to think "I told them." I said my peace across multiple pages. I'm just one guy that plays the game. It's up to the CPM and CCP to take the next step. Arguing on here doesn't make a difference unless I'm crying about mass drivers or flaylock pistols. I should probably thank CCP for making these blunders. It reminds me that I shouldn't get so invested in this game when they still can't figure out what the hell it's supposed to be after a year of beta. Maybe I'll take this time to finish Dark Souls. Don't listen to what people say about the dark ending. Also, when they say Artorias walked the Abyss and saved Oolacile, it was really you who did it. Also, Gwynevere is an illusion, try attacking her. AV =/= Completely dominate and render vehicles useless. AV = Counterpart of vehicles that combats vehicles.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2984	Posted - 2013.11.06 05:30:00 - [95] - Quote Dark Souls 2 is shaping up pretty well too I think. I played in the network test.
Himiko Kuronaga The Generals EoN. 2160	Posted - 2013.11.06 05:34:00 - [96] - Quote Alpha 443-6732 wrote: Cosgar wrote: Vyzion Eyri wrote: Cosgar wrote: That 10% buff was implemented because nobody could hit anyone. Ambushes ended based on time and KB/M aiming was horrible. This change had no focus, there hasn't been anything in the patch notes specifying TTK, since 1.0. That's obviously because it's a byproduct of stacking a bunch of fixes. Stop making excuses for CCP, they've even openly said they screwed this build up several times. You can have your meat grinder twitch fest for all I care, I'm going to go play something else until they fix it in 2015 or they finally show that supposed road map. My cup of kool-aid is empty. I'm as disenchanted as you, or else I wouldn't be arguing. I don't make excuses for CCP in any other thread requesting change except here, not because my kool-aid cup has a drop more than yours, but because I personally believe this won't work. I've listed my reasons, you've listed yours. If you still believe you're right, I will still believe you're wrong. In the end one of us will have the greater influence over CCP, and it'll probably be you because the community appears to be all for higher TTK. I'll be here to watch it all pan out anyway, and I sincerely hope I won't have to think "I told them." I said my peace across multiple pages. I'm just one guy that plays the game. It's up to the CPM and CCP to take the next step. Arguing on here doesn't make a difference unless I'm crying about mass drivers or flaylock pistols. I should probably thank CCP for making these blunders. It reminds me that I shouldn't get so invested in this game when they still can't figure out what the hell it's supposed to be after a year of beta. Maybe I'll take this time to finish Dark Souls. Don't listen to what people say about the dark ending. Also, when they say Artorias walked the Abyss and saved Oolacile, it was really you who did it. Also, Gwynevere is an illusion, try attacking her. You're a bad person.
Noc Tempre Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2615	Posted - 2013.11.06 05:42:00 - [97] - Quote Zeylon Rho wrote: Cosgar wrote: ReGnYuM wrote: Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Now I'm not complaining exactly. The hit detection right now is behaving like holy jesus. But it really is making me realize just how much this games HP and damage values were balanced around the fact that a gigantic portion of incoming fire was guaranteed to miss due to shoddy hit detection. Now that it.... isn't missing. I don't know. I really don't know what to say. I mean it feels cleaner and better and more rewarding of player skill, but it also feels kind of... twitch. Which I can dig, but I'm not sure that I'm... supposed to? I...ah, I dunno. This is weird. Am I the only one feeling this? Between the aim assist being recently upgrading to god tier, and now a lot more of the incoming fire actually hitting... should the HP values get raised across the board? Or just, hell... just roll with it? buff strafe speed! The world must be upside down if I'm agreeing with ReGnYuM +1 (I feel dirty now...) I have a suspicion that changes to strafe speed, scout speed, etc. over the course of post-uprising updates have been made because they couldn't get hit detection to work properly in their engine at those speeds. If that's the case, then we might be stuck with the current speeds until they can "improve the engine/rendering/whatever". I can confirm that slowing down the movement speed was a deliberate decision based on CCP's idea of acceptable technical compromises since last year. Pretty graphics > fun shooter amiright?
Himiko Kuronaga The Generals EoN. 2160	Posted - 2013.11.06 05:49:00 - [98] - Quote You don't need a super fast strafe to make it a functional tracking shooter. Halo by no means has a fast strafe. You simply need responsive aiming, clear hitboxes, natural acceleration and deceleration on actions like directional movement while jumping, a generous amount of HP and a balance between rate of fire and range. The balance being, a high rate of fire means crap range, unless counter-balanced by something like super slow movement speed. This gives every missed shot more meaning during a fight, and rewards the cunning of someone capable of getting up close with less error per missed shot with a high RoF weapon. Right now the AR, and several weapons like it, have a good RoF, good damage, and good range. If it's going to be a decent tracking shooter, there have to be some fundamental changes to the way damage is dished out. If all we do is increase strafe speed, it can easily get to the point where the movement is just too fast for regular people to hit anybody.
Noc Tempre Imperfects Negative-Feedback 2615	Posted - 2013.11.06 07:12:00 - [99] - Quote Sleepy Zan wrote: You never return my calls anymore...
Borne Velvalor Endless Hatred 913	Posted - 2013.11.06 07:20:00 - [100] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Now I'm not complaining exactly. The hit detection right now is behaving like holy jesus. But it really is making me realize just how much this games HP and damage values were balanced around the fact that a gigantic portion of incoming fire was guaranteed to miss due to shoddy hit detection. Now that it.... isn't missing. I don't know. I really don't know what to say. I mean it feels cleaner and better and more rewarding of player skill, but it also feels kind of... twitch. Which I can dig, but I'm not sure that I'm... supposed to? I...ah, I dunno. This is weird. Am I the only one feeling this? Between the aim assist being recently upgrading to god tier, and now a lot more of the incoming fire actually hitting... should the HP values get raised across the board? Or just, hell... just roll with it? I feel the same way. I've died to so many Scrambler Rifles due to their insane DPS, Charge Shots and good range that I might pick one up. I swear, I die faster to Scrambler Rifles in the front of Laser optimal range than I can drop them. I'll be at 65m, they'll run forward 5m in 1 second, now they're only 10m out of optimal and I die almost instantaneously. I've died to several Scrambler Rifles this way 1 vs 1 at 60m today. I usually get their shields down, then I drop. Of course, I use crappy gear, so that plays a big part in it, too. Many suits I've worn, many burdens I've borne, for the oaths I've sworn. Panda.

Draco Cerberus Hell's Gate Inc 473	Posted - 2013.11.06 08:06:00 - [101] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Now I'm not complaining exactly. The hit detection right now is behaving like holy jesus. But it really is making me realize just how much this games HP and damage values were balanced around the fact that a gigantic portion of incoming fire was guaranteed to miss due to shoddy hit detection. Now that it.... isn't missing. I don't know. I really don't know what to say. I mean it feels cleaner and better and more rewarding of player skill, but it also feels kind of... twitch. Which I can dig, but I'm not sure that I'm... supposed to? I...ah, I dunno. This is weird. Am I the only one feeling this? Between the aim assist being recently upgrading to god tier, and now a lot more of the incoming fire actually hitting... should the HP values get raised across the board? Or just, hell... just roll with it? Seems balanced, don't we all die equally well now? On a plus side it means you should be able to refill your ammo by dying fairly regular and if you improve your targeting you will get more kills. As to the more HP across the board I think it would be a positive change but at most 50-75 HP across the board, no big numbers, you should still be able to kill people (without a grenade or RE). *One Universe...*
hgghyujh Expert Intervention Caldari State 159	Posted - 2013.11.06 09:18:00 - [102] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Now I'm not complaining exactly. The hit detection right now is behaving like holy jesus. But it really is making me realize just how much this games HP and damage values were balanced around the fact that a gigantic portion of incoming fire was guaranteed to miss due to shoddy hit detection. Now that it.... isn't missing. I don't know. I really don't know what to say. I mean it feels cleaner and better and more rewarding of player skill, but it also feels kind of... twitch. Which I can dig, but I'm not sure that I'm... supposed to? I...ah, I dunno. This is weird. Am I the only one feeling this? Between the aim assist being recently upgrading to god tier, and now a lot more of the incoming fire actually hitting... should the HP values get raised across the board? Or just, hell... just roll with it? no you are exactly right. I mean this has been a problem for a long time among the pro players(most didn't care tho), but now its really kinda game breaking for anything that isnt tank or damage.
Blake Kingston Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 141	Posted - 2013.11.06 09:40:00 - [103] - Quote If it's meant to be a high tracking HP game, I'd agree it isn't right now.


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