DUST Search - This game does NOT feel like a high HP tracking shooter right now...

Cosgar wrote:

Vyzion Eyri wrote:

Cosgar wrote:

Vyzion Eyri wrote:

The way I see it, the only reason this topic of TTK got traction is because we've oversimplified the matter. There are so many factors, and you've listed some for me. Lack of cover, grenades, EWAR, new weapons, new equipment, new skills, armour and shields, damage modifiers, strafing, tiers.

If all of this was mentioned in the OP instead of now, people would be uninterested because it's too complex for them to care about. BUT, instead, all I see is "TTK TOO SHORT" with some half-assed examples as to why. And this is what you want CCP to focus 'here and now' on?

I'm arguing against you guys because your reasons are superficial.

No cover? NULL cannons are cover. Rock formations. Barrels. Rooms. Dips. Trenches. Mountains. Towers. Pipes. Walls. Buildings. Structures. Doorways. I, personally, don't need CCP to label a wall with a convenient hole for shooting out of "cover" for me.

If TTK lengthens, 'everything that made this game even resemble an FPS is gone'. I'm going to use that against you here, because an FPS involves tactics. It is tactical, I think we both agree. But if people can get away with pounding each other with dozens of bullets only to regenerate after hiding for a few seconds, is it going to be tactical or is it going to be front-line vs. front-line until the side with the better guns pushes through? Damage mods and Duvolles will be MORE of a problem when you increase TTK because increasing TTK lengthens gametime, and over time the DPS a prototype weapon scales and higher faster than that of an Exile AR, for example.

You seem to have your own bias. I'm glad the ball is in CCP's court because I doubt there would be very many people playing if you called the shots. Everyone invests their time, grinding for character growth and to improve their fit. When you invest millions of ISK over a month into your survivability, it should be more than a fraction of a second. People had issues with one suit and one rifle in earlier uprising that eliminated the need to use anything else and CCP fixed the problem, how is this any different? Also, this has been brought up since 1.4 but like everything else around here that isn't a hot topic of the month, it goes ignored.

We all have our own opinions, and I am also glad I'm not in charge of this game.

I invest my time because it's extremely fun to play with my corporation, to fly dropships, to be a logibro. But I digress.

And an interesting point: how is the CalLogi, the flaylock and the DTAR different? Because as I've been saying, this is oversimplifying the matter. We're pointing at "TTK" in general, and saying it's too low.

All those previous changes, even the one to armour, had a focus! This doesn't. This is saying go change everything. You've suggested changes to grenades before, if you had mentioned and stuck to that I would've been happy to accept your premise.

But removing the 10% damage buff (that was there to compensate for the loss of the 2% per level of Weaponry, which everyone would have had at level 5 in Chromosome anyway, so surely that couldn't be the problem) is a sweeping change that isn't necessary. That WILL increase TTK, sure, but what happens next? Nothing. The Duvolle stacked with damage mods still kills more than anything else, just a little slower. Relatively speaking, nothing changes.

So what really are you focusing on? Where is your real argument? TTK is more abstract than modern art.

That 10% buff was implemented because nobody could hit anyone. Ambushes ended based on time and KB/M aiming was horrible. This change had no focus, there hasn't been anything in the patch notes specifying TTK, since 1.0. That's obviously because it's a byproduct of stacking a bunch of fixes.

Stop making excuses for CCP, they've even openly said they screwed this build up several times. You can have your meat grinder twitch fest for all I care, I'm going to go play something else until they fix it in 2015 or they finally show that supposed road map. My cup of kool-aid is empty.


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Bethhy Ancient Exiles 270	Posted - 2013.11.06 01:25:00 - [1] - Quote CCP's classic double buffing..... People are complaining about aiming mechanics?? we will give them a device to assist them aim~ and then fix hit detection... If we all actually had to do our own tracking of the target's it becomes alot more challenging... as it's sometimes hard to predict which way a player will move or how.... With those finer choices being made for you as long as you get your aim on at the start... is kinda.. pointless to me.. i really could play GTA 5 where cover and autolock gameplay was actually built for the game... Dust's butt clenching long drag out fights are gone... and to me it's lost any unique feel it's had over other FPS's it used to keep me from. I do hope it's addressed as there really isn't any reason to play DUST other then friends.
Bethhy Ancient Exiles 276	Posted - 2013.11.06 03:37:00 - [2] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Vyzion Eyri wrote: Cosgar wrote: Vyzion Eyri wrote: The way I see it, the only reason this topic of TTK got traction is because we've oversimplified the matter. There are so many factors, and you've listed some for me. Lack of cover, grenades, EWAR, new weapons, new equipment, new skills, armour and shields, damage modifiers, strafing, tiers. If all of this was mentioned in the OP instead of now, people would be uninterested because it's too complex for them to care about. BUT, instead, all I see is "TTK TOO SHORT" with some half-assed examples as to why. And this is what you want CCP to focus 'here and now' on? I'm arguing against you guys because your reasons are superficial. No cover? NULL cannons are cover. Rock formations. Barrels. Rooms. Dips. Trenches. Mountains. Towers. Pipes. Walls. Buildings. Structures. Doorways. I, personally, don't need CCP to label a wall with a convenient hole for shooting out of "cover" for me. If TTK lengthens, 'everything that made this game even resemble an FPS is gone'. I'm going to use that against you here, because an FPS involves tactics. It is tactical, I think we both agree. But if people can get away with pounding each other with dozens of bullets only to regenerate after hiding for a few seconds, is it going to be tactical or is it going to be front-line vs. front-line until the side with the better guns pushes through? Damage mods and Duvolles will be MORE of a problem when you increase TTK because increasing TTK lengthens gametime, and over time the DPS a prototype weapon scales and higher faster than that of an Exile AR, for example. You seem to have your own bias. I'm glad the ball is in CCP's court because I doubt there would be very many people playing if you called the shots. Everyone invests their time, grinding for character growth and to improve their fit. When you invest millions of ISK over a month into your survivability, it should be more than a fraction of a second. People had issues with one suit and one rifle in earlier uprising that eliminated the need to use anything else and CCP fixed the problem, how is this any different? Also, this has been brought up since 1.4 but like everything else around here that isn't a hot topic of the month, it goes ignored. We all have our own opinions, and I am also glad I'm not in charge of this game. I invest my time because it's extremely fun to play with my corporation, to fly dropships, to be a logibro. But I digress. And an interesting point: how is the CalLogi, the flaylock and the DTAR different? Because as I've been saying, this is oversimplifying the matter. We're pointing at "TTK" in general, and saying it's too low. All those previous changes, even the one to armour, had a focus! This doesn't. This is saying go change everything. You've suggested changes to grenades before, if you had mentioned and stuck to that I would've been happy to accept your premise. But removing the 10% damage buff (that was there to compensate for the loss of the 2% per level of Weaponry, which everyone would have had at level 5 in Chromosome anyway, so surely that couldn't be the problem) is a sweeping change that isn't necessary. That WILL increase TTK, sure, but what happens next? Nothing. The Duvolle stacked with damage mods still kills more than anything else, just a little slower. Relatively speaking, nothing changes. So what really are you focusing on? Where is your real argument? TTK is more abstract than modern art. That 10% buff was implemented because nobody could hit anyone. Ambushes ended based on time and KB/M aiming was horrible. This change had no focus, there hasn't been anything in the patch notes specifying TTK, since 1.0. That's obviously because it's a byproduct of stacking a bunch of fixes. Stop making excuses for CCP, they've even openly said they screwed this build up several times. You can have your meat grinder twitch fest for all I care, I'm going to go play something else until they fix it in 2015 or they finally show that supposed road map. My cup of kool-aid is empty. 10% damage didnt come out of thin air.... bangs head against desk Weaponry was a skill that did something 2% damage to all weapons per level... Everyone had level 5 and 10% damage...passively. It was a skill everyone got and gladly... now level 2 and 4 exist purely to **** people off. a skill point sink skill as a MUST for certain classes starting off.. lame 10% is no culprit or fix to anything. specially when we already had that damage in chromosome, with proto suits having 400-500 health and that considered godly amounts.