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This game does NOT feel like a high HP tracking shooter right now...

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Cosgar ParagonX 7305	Posted - 2013.11.05 15:37:00 - [1] - Quote You're right, it doesn't feel like a high HP tracking FPS. It hasn't felt like one since beta. Arguably, they were going in that direction for Uprising 1.0, but everything got screwed thanks to aiming/hit detection and continuing damage vs EHP imbalance. Short death, twitch style gameplay =/= tactical and don't let anyone tell you different. Teamwork and tactics have taken a backseat to DPS and kill streaks for far too long and if we don't stop complaining about it, it's only going to continue on. There's no real skill involved in this game outside of stacking damage mods and everyone shooting at the same target. We have squads and teams, but there's very little need to work together. Dust is doing nothing but emulating their competitors through cheap imitation. This game can be better than this by being different. I love this game, from its concept to the depth, but I hate what it's become. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Cosgar ParagonX 7312	Posted - 2013.11.05 16:00:00 - [2] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Well players did cry that suits HP between basic-adv-proto were all higher at a base when you went up the ladder so CCP made them all the same Shouldn't be about generalizing base HP. Everyone needs a boost in survivability across the board. Investing months of SP into modules just to survive an extra bullet for an AR is insane when it takes less than 1/4 of a clip to kill you. Strafing is nerfed to hell, getting hit has a webbing effect, pure shield tanking is dead, damage mod > HP scaling is horrible, and fitting diversity is stripped down to simple buffer tanking with armor suits having the higher advantage since they can gank and tank at the same time. Everything FPS related has been stripped away from Dust, and at this rate it might as well be turn based. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Cosgar ParagonX 7318	Posted - 2013.11.05 16:39:00 - [3] - Quote Keri Starlight wrote: Aim Assist wasn't upgraded at all. They did not touch it. I agree with the rest, the hit detection is finally (almost?) flawless! But I'm liking the changes, I actually feel rewarded for being able to aim properly (which sadly not many people can do, aim assist or not) instead of having enemies running away after they've taken 30+ bullets, which is simply frustrating. I shoot and they die, the whole game feels smooth and reactive, just like it should be. At this point, I wonder if the current TTK is like the intended it to be, just like you said. It really depends if they feel like it's ok or not. I'm adapting quickly and I like how dynamic the game is right now. If it were intended, pure shield tanking would be able to keep up with armor tanking. Instead, your only option is to omni-tank or stack damage mods and plates. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Cosgar ParagonX 7322	Posted - 2013.11.05 16:53:00 - [4] - Quote Monty Mole Clone wrote: Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Monty Mole Clone wrote: you can take allot more fire in this game compared to other games, what are you people smoking? give me sum. You live a lot longer in Halo, unless you run into a power weapon of some sort. last time i played halo it was 4 bursts to the head for a kill plus all the insta kill stuff. in terms of how quick you can kill it was faster You can strafe in Halo. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Cosgar ParagonX 7322	Posted - 2013.11.05 16:56:00 - [5] - Quote Keri Starlight wrote: Himiko Kuronaga wrote: I said "recent" upgrade to aim assist. And actually yes, they did mess with it some in this build as well. Felt it on my scrambler rifle immediately. It is now tracking further into effective range with some weapons. Used to cut off just outside optimal. I would like CCP to confirm this, because I didn't notice it. However, I'm too happy that my Tac AR is finally working (used to register maybe 1 shot out of 3) right now, I'm really enjoying it and I had some amazing games today, so I'm really satisfied so far. I wouldn't mind some sort of general HP increase neither, if you ask me, as long as it doesn't take 2 clips to kill someone, which kills my purpose on the battlefield. If that happens, however, some weapons will need a buff too: For example, I really hate snipers, but they will need a damage buff if our HP are going to be increased. Might be complicated somehow to rebalance everything to get a higher TTK. Weapon balance needs a serious re-work anyway. We have way too many weapons that under perform until they get to prototype and others that are good at all tiers that out perform anything at prototype. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Cosgar ParagonX 7322	Posted - 2013.11.05 16:57:00 - [6] - Quote Monty Mole Clone wrote: Cosgar wrote: Monty Mole Clone wrote: Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Monty Mole Clone wrote: you can take allot more fire in this game compared to other games, what are you people smoking? give me sum. You live a lot longer in Halo, unless you run into a power weapon of some sort. last time i played halo it was 4 bursts to the head for a kill plus all the insta kill stuff. in terms of how quick you can kill it was faster You can strafe in Halo. and you cant strafe in dust? Lateral movement is slower than moving north and south and there's a "webbing" effect when you take damage, eliminating the purpose of strafing. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Cosgar ParagonX 7325	Posted - 2013.11.05 17:15:00 - [7] - Quote Spaceman-Rob wrote: Go play 5 seconds of cod ghosts and tell me dust doesn't feel like a high HP tracking shooter. Go play 5 seconds of Halo (the first one) and tell me dust doesn't feel like a twitch FPS. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Cosgar ParagonX 7331	Posted - 2013.11.05 17:29:00 - [8] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Cosgar wrote: Spaceman-Rob wrote: Go play 5 seconds of cod ghosts and tell me dust doesn't feel like a high HP tracking shooter. Go play 5 seconds of Halo (the first one) and tell me dust doesn't feel like a twitch FPS. Well, if we're talking about the GOD PISTOL uh.... hah, that thing could drop you pretty darn fast... It's a pistol, working as intended. But the point still stands that that's the TTK and mobility we really need. It would make difference in frame size much more noticeable for heavy and light frames while taking away the huge emphasis to omni-tank. Hell, just remove the strafing cap, the webbing when you get hit and the emergency 10% damage buff from Uprising 1.0 and it might set things in the right direction. If anyone complains, tell them to aim harder. This is supposed to be a FPS after all... I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Cosgar ParagonX 7337	Posted - 2013.11.05 18:18:00 - [9] - Quote ReGnYuM wrote: Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Now I'm not complaining exactly. The hit detection right now is behaving like holy jesus. But it really is making me realize just how much this games HP and damage values were balanced around the fact that a gigantic portion of incoming fire was guaranteed to miss due to shoddy hit detection. Now that it.... isn't missing. I don't know. I really don't know what to say. I mean it feels cleaner and better and more rewarding of player skill, but it also feels kind of... twitch. Which I can dig, but I'm not sure that I'm... supposed to? I...ah, I dunno. This is weird. Am I the only one feeling this? Between the aim assist being recently upgrading to god tier, and now a lot more of the incoming fire actually hitting... should the HP values get raised across the board? Or just, hell... just roll with it? buff strafe speed! The world must be upside down if I'm agreeing with ReGnYuM +1 (I feel dirty now...) I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Cosgar ParagonX 7337	Posted - 2013.11.05 18:19:00 - [10] - Quote SILVERBACK 02 wrote: ReGnYuM wrote: Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Now I'm not complaining exactly. The hit detection right now is behaving like holy jesus. But it really is making me realize just how much this games HP and damage values were balanced around the fact that a gigantic portion of incoming fire was guaranteed to miss due to shoddy hit detection. Now that it.... isn't missing. I don't know. I really don't know what to say. I mean it feels cleaner and better and more rewarding of player skill, but it also feels kind of... twitch. Which I can dig, but I'm not sure that I'm... supposed to? I...ah, I dunno. This is weird. Am I the only one feeling this? Between the aim assist being recently upgrading to god tier, and now a lot more of the incoming fire actually hitting... should the HP values get raised across the board? Or just, hell... just roll with it? buff strafe speed! fffuuucckk oofff scrub, try and play the game with out your noobish strafing. Learn to aim. Strafing is a core mechanic in every FPS. Even twitch games like CoD. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"

Cosgar ParagonX 7350	Posted - 2013.11.05 20:26:00 - [11] - Quote Meeko Fent wrote: Dexter307 wrote: Thor McStrut wrote: steadyhand amarr wrote: Last night my iscr went from good to godly so HP across the board might need boosting back up That or the 10% damage boost removed. A 10% health boost would be better. People react more positively to gains than to losses Good point. Do it please. That should make all well It's only a fix to a fix to another fix. Look at grenades. Everyone wants to limit carrying capacity to 2, stop nanohives from restocking them... yadda, yadda, yadda. If anyone remembers, grenades were buffed in the first place because splash damage was coded on a 2D plane which negated damage if your intended target had even a pixel of elevation. Short term fix was to buff them to insane levels. Splash damage was fixed in 1.2 and now they're stupidly OP. Roll back hot fixes before simply trying to nerf or buff things. Remove the emergency 10% damage buff (and all the little ninja changes from 1.0) and reassess what needs to be fixed. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Cosgar ParagonX 7364	Posted - 2013.11.06 00:45:00 - [12] - Quote Alpha 443-6732 wrote: Honestly, if CCP is going in the low TTK direction, they should increase weapon ranges so that tactical and situational awareness is focused upon more than who can move randomly the longest while spraying at their enemies. Low ttk =/= twitch shooter low ttk with low range or forced cqc = twitch shooter I'm pretty sure many of us want Dust to be better than that. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Cosgar ParagonX 7364	Posted - 2013.11.06 00:51:00 - [13] - Quote Soldner VonKuechle wrote: Cosgar wrote: Alpha 443-6732 wrote: Honestly, if CCP is going in the low TTK direction, they should increase weapon ranges so that tactical and situational awareness is focused upon more than who can move randomly the longest while spraying at their enemies. Low ttk =/= twitch shooter low ttk with low range or forced cqc = twitch shooter I'm pretty sure many of us want Dust to be better than that. That's the reason we re all still here right? And it's the reason why many of us are leaving as well. CCP can't get core mechanics right and it's going to kill this game. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Cosgar ParagonX 7365	Posted - 2013.11.06 01:29:00 - [14] - Quote Alpha 443-6732 wrote: Cosgar wrote: Alpha 443-6732 wrote: Honestly, if CCP is going in the low TTK direction, they should increase weapon ranges so that tactical and situational awareness is focused upon more than who can move randomly the longest while spraying at their enemies. Low ttk =/= twitch shooter low ttk with low range or forced cqc = twitch shooter I'm pretty sure many of us want Dust to be better than that. Better in what way? Are you suggesting that higher strafe speeds and ttk = more tactical/situational awareness needed? Personally, I don't think DUST could be treated as a serious shooter if ttk (e.g. not lone wolf focused, similar to how eve is a serious space mmo) gets increased while we have the short ranges we have now. It would turn combat into whoever can dance the most while shooting at a target, which was similar to what we had in chromosome. A scout will never be able to perform an ambush/stealth role with it's low health as long as ttk is increased. If ttk is increased to the point of a tracking shooter, ambushes and tactical play will be nerfed to where only aiming "skill" and strafing are the only defining factors in a fight, which is ridiculous and just a way for the l33t players to prevent getting outplayed tactically. In my opinion, adding range while keeping the current ttk would allow for more use of cover and increase the need to be aware of your situation before engaging. It would allow more control over situations and promote teamwork, while reducing the usefulness of simply "ramboing" targets and charging through the open to kill people (instead, having people positioned around an area to lock it down, having the ability to fire at targets moving throughout the open). Weapons would be powerful, but you would have a much higher likelihood of avoiding it altogether with some thought beforehand. Plain and simple, we have enough of this style of play on the market and they do it better than Dust ever will. This game needs to be better by being different. There's nothing tactical about Dust, there's tactics, but it was never tactical outside the one assault rifle variant. A reviewer that leaked early beta footage on YouTube (his name escapes me right now) said it best when he said Dust 514 is "a thinking man's FPS." Gauge your target, retreat if needed, flank and pincer to win fit your suit to match your playstyle. These were core principals that have been forgotten. The meta game is dead and stacking damage mods with armor plates has taken its place. This wasn't the FPS I fell in love with all those years ago. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Cosgar ParagonX 7365	Posted - 2013.11.06 01:38:00 - [15] - Quote Alpha 443-6732 wrote: What's wrong with DUST being a hybrid tracking/tactical instead of either? Wouldn't that be best? An increase to HP so that people can survive multiple bullets but the range to make cover and battlefield tactics worth the effort? Weapons had crazy range with the sharpshooter in Chromosome. They removed it because it broke the game. I'd rather not go back to snipers that could snipe you from one reline to the other and lasers that can melt an entire team just by waving it across the map. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Cosgar ParagonX 7365	Posted - 2013.11.06 01:46:00 - [16] - Quote Alpha 443-6732 wrote: Cosgar wrote: Alpha 443-6732 wrote: What's wrong with DUST being a hybrid tracking/tactical instead of either? Wouldn't that be best? An increase to HP so that people can survive multiple bullets but the range to make cover and battlefield tactics worth the effort? Weapons had crazy range with the sharpshooter in Chromosome. They removed it because it broke the game. I'd rather not go back to snipers that could snipe you from one reline to the other and lasers that can melt an entire team just by waving it across the map. Honestly, I enjoyed sharpshooter. Lasers had broken damage, not range. Snipers weren't that much of a problem if you knew how to move erratically. Sharpshooter as a skill was broken, though. Just because of a little poor execution, doesn't mean the actual idea is bad. Snipers could only be killed by other snipers, and the laser wasn't really changed in uprising, just the viziam. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Cosgar ParagonX 7368	Posted - 2013.11.06 01:50:00 - [17] - Quote The fact of the matter is this isn't what Dust was advertised as. Whether you agree or not, this game was released on 5/14. You can't just change core mechanics from one thing to the next each patch. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Cosgar ParagonX 7370	Posted - 2013.11.06 02:05:00 - [18] - Quote Vyzion Eyri wrote: Cosgar wrote: It's only a fix to a fix to another fix. Look at grenades. Everyone wants to limit carrying capacity to 2, stop nanohives from restocking them... yadda, yadda, yadda. If anyone remembers, grenades were buffed in the first place because splash damage was coded on a 2D plane which negated damage if your intended target had even a pixel of elevation. Short term fix was to buff them to insane levels. Splash damage was fixed in 1.2 and now they're stupidly OP. Roll back hot fixes before simply trying to nerf or buff things. Remove the emergency 10% damage buff (and all the little ninja changes from 1.0) and reassess what needs to be fixed. Assumptions. How do you know fixing TTK isn't making an assumption that will become equally redundant in the future? How do you know this isn't a short-term fix to a deeper problem? What if, this time next year, people are asking CCP to roll back the TTK fixes because now, with better EWAR mechanics, shield bubbles and cloaking, it takes TOO long to find and kill people? Seen that road map CCP keeps talking about yet? They keep us in the dark because they're just playing everything by ear. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Cosgar ParagonX 7370	Posted - 2013.11.06 02:21:00 - [19] - Quote Vyzion Eyri wrote: Cosgar wrote: Vyzion Eyri wrote: Cosgar wrote: It's only a fix to a fix to another fix. Look at grenades. Everyone wants to limit carrying capacity to 2, stop nanohives from restocking them... yadda, yadda, yadda. If anyone remembers, grenades were buffed in the first place because splash damage was coded on a 2D plane which negated damage if your intended target had even a pixel of elevation. Short term fix was to buff them to insane levels. Splash damage was fixed in 1.2 and now they're stupidly OP. Roll back hot fixes before simply trying to nerf or buff things. Remove the emergency 10% damage buff (and all the little ninja changes from 1.0) and reassess what needs to be fixed. Assumptions. How do you know fixing TTK isn't making an assumption that will become equally redundant in the future? How do you know this isn't a short-term fix to a deeper problem? What if, this time next year, people are asking CCP to roll back the TTK fixes because now, with better EWAR mechanics, shield bubbles and cloaking, it takes TOO long to find and kill people? Seen that road map CCP keeps talking about yet? They keep us in the dark because they're just playing everything by ear. The specifics they're playing by ear, but on a grander scale (one of the things I do admire about CCP) they have their eyes on the ball. DUST can reach its potential, but if you're right and they are improvising the core mechanics as they go, then I suggest we don't get involved and make these massive generalised assumptions that sound good on paper but would simply delay the game from progressing in the future. I'm opposed to increasing TTK because I fear it will spark a discussion months down the road as to whether or not we should "bring back the 10% damage buff from Uprising that was removed in 1.7", and also because honestly I haven't seen real reasons as to why TTK should increase. I mean, people are basing TTK on the time an enemy begins shooting to the time you die, for god's sake! Is TTK not the time between your respawn, and your death? Are you not doing anything during that time to prevent yourself from dying? Essentially what this is telling me is that people are mindlessly jumping into combat, then basing all these assumptions about TTK over those few seconds, instead of broadening the scope to what they were doing when they respawned, and how much information they had about what the situation they just rocketed into. Do anything to prevent yourself from dying? Most maps barely have any cover, strafing is all but dead, the armor buff gives suits the option to gank and tank at the same time, and it all comes down to who sees who first and how many damage mods they have stacked on their Duvolle. Everything that made this game even resemble a FPS is gone and stop pretending that this is in line with some imaginary road map. Even if it is by some mystifying chance, CCP really, really needs to get their **** together and focus on the here and now, instead of 10 years for now. Ask a sentinel if they like their bonus for a weapon that's not in the game yet and see if they like CCP's plan.. Edit: Could use Tapatalk here and now too. Phone lag causes too many typos. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Cosgar ParagonX 7374	Posted - 2013.11.06 03:10:00 - [20] - Quote Vyzion Eyri wrote: The way I see it, the only reason this topic of TTK got traction is because we've oversimplified the matter. There are so many factors, and you've listed some for me. Lack of cover, grenades, EWAR, new weapons, new equipment, new skills, armour and shields, damage modifiers, strafing, tiers. If all of this was mentioned in the OP instead of now, people would be uninterested because it's too complex for them to care about. BUT, instead, all I see is "TTK TOO SHORT" with some half-assed examples as to why. And this is what you want CCP to focus 'here and now' on? I'm arguing against you guys because your reasons are superficial. No cover? NULL cannons are cover. Rock formations. Barrels. Rooms. Dips. Trenches. Mountains. Towers. Pipes. Walls. Buildings. Structures. Doorways. I, personally, don't need CCP to label a wall with a convenient hole for shooting out of "cover" for me. If TTK lengthens, 'everything that made this game even resemble an FPS is gone'. I'm going to use that against you here, because an FPS involves tactics. It is tactical, I think we both agree. But if people can get away with pounding each other with dozens of bullets only to regenerate after hiding for a few seconds, is it going to be tactical or is it going to be front-line vs. front-line until the side with the better guns pushes through? Damage mods and Duvolles will be MORE of a problem when you increase TTK because increasing TTK lengthens gametime, and over time the DPS a prototype weapon scales and higher faster than that of an Exile AR, for example. You seem to have your own bias. I'm glad the ball is in CCP's court because I doubt there would be very many people playing if you called the shots. Everyone invests their time, grinding for character growth and to improve their fit. When you invest millions of ISK over a month into your survivability, it should be more than a fraction of a second. People had issues with one suit and one rifle in earlier uprising that eliminated the need to use anything else and CCP fixed the problem, how is this any different? Also, this has been brought up since 1.4 but like everything else around here that isn't a hot topic of the month, it goes ignored. Quote: Oh, and feel free to make as many typos as you want. This is a discussion not a spelling class. I don't make petty assumptions on another man's intelligence because they misspelled a few words. Personally, I don't care what people think of my spelling except me. I make corrections because I think it obstructs whatever point I'm trying to convey at the time. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"

Cosgar ParagonX 7376	Posted - 2013.11.06 03:29:00 - [21] - Quote Vyzion Eyri wrote: Cosgar wrote: Vyzion Eyri wrote: The way I see it, the only reason this topic of TTK got traction is because we've oversimplified the matter. There are so many factors, and you've listed some for me. Lack of cover, grenades, EWAR, new weapons, new equipment, new skills, armour and shields, damage modifiers, strafing, tiers. If all of this was mentioned in the OP instead of now, people would be uninterested because it's too complex for them to care about. BUT, instead, all I see is "TTK TOO SHORT" with some half-assed examples as to why. And this is what you want CCP to focus 'here and now' on? I'm arguing against you guys because your reasons are superficial. No cover? NULL cannons are cover. Rock formations. Barrels. Rooms. Dips. Trenches. Mountains. Towers. Pipes. Walls. Buildings. Structures. Doorways. I, personally, don't need CCP to label a wall with a convenient hole for shooting out of "cover" for me. If TTK lengthens, 'everything that made this game even resemble an FPS is gone'. I'm going to use that against you here, because an FPS involves tactics. It is tactical, I think we both agree. But if people can get away with pounding each other with dozens of bullets only to regenerate after hiding for a few seconds, is it going to be tactical or is it going to be front-line vs. front-line until the side with the better guns pushes through? Damage mods and Duvolles will be MORE of a problem when you increase TTK because increasing TTK lengthens gametime, and over time the DPS a prototype weapon scales and higher faster than that of an Exile AR, for example. You seem to have your own bias. I'm glad the ball is in CCP's court because I doubt there would be very many people playing if you called the shots. Everyone invests their time, grinding for character growth and to improve their fit. When you invest millions of ISK over a month into your survivability, it should be more than a fraction of a second. People had issues with one suit and one rifle in earlier uprising that eliminated the need to use anything else and CCP fixed the problem, how is this any different? Also, this has been brought up since 1.4 but like everything else around here that isn't a hot topic of the month, it goes ignored. We all have our own opinions, and I am also glad I'm not in charge of this game. I invest my time because it's extremely fun to play with my corporation, to fly dropships, to be a logibro. But I digress. And an interesting point: how is the CalLogi, the flaylock and the DTAR different? Because as I've been saying, this is oversimplifying the matter. We're pointing at "TTK" in general, and saying it's too low. All those previous changes, even the one to armour, had a focus! This doesn't. This is saying go change everything. You've suggested changes to grenades before, if you had mentioned and stuck to that I would've been happy to accept your premise. But removing the 10% damage buff (that was there to compensate for the loss of the 2% per level of Weaponry, which everyone would have had at level 5 in Chromosome anyway, so surely that couldn't be the problem) is a sweeping change that isn't necessary. That WILL increase TTK, sure, but what happens next? Nothing. The Duvolle stacked with damage mods still kills more than anything else, just a little slower. Relatively speaking, nothing changes. So what really are you focusing on? Where is your real argument? TTK is more abstract than modern art. That 10% buff was implemented because nobody could hit anyone. Ambushes ended based on time and KB/M aiming was horrible. This change had no focus, there hasn't been anything in the patch notes specifying TTK, since 1.0. That's obviously because it's a byproduct of stacking a bunch of fixes. Stop making excuses for CCP, they've even openly said they screwed this build up several times. You can have your meat grinder twitch fest for all I care, I'm going to go play something else until they fix it in 2015 or they finally show that supposed road map. My cup of kool-aid is empty. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Cosgar ParagonX 7378	Posted - 2013.11.06 03:51:00 - [22] - Quote Bethhy wrote: Cosgar wrote: Vyzion Eyri wrote: Cosgar wrote: Vyzion Eyri wrote: The way I see it, the only reason this topic of TTK got traction is because we've oversimplified the matter. There are so many factors, and you've listed some for me. Lack of cover, grenades, EWAR, new weapons, new equipment, new skills, armour and shields, damage modifiers, strafing, tiers. If all of this was mentioned in the OP instead of now, people would be uninterested because it's too complex for them to care about. BUT, instead, all I see is "TTK TOO SHORT" with some half-assed examples as to why. And this is what you want CCP to focus 'here and now' on? I'm arguing against you guys because your reasons are superficial. No cover? NULL cannons are cover. Rock formations. Barrels. Rooms. Dips. Trenches. Mountains. Towers. Pipes. Walls. Buildings. Structures. Doorways. I, personally, don't need CCP to label a wall with a convenient hole for shooting out of "cover" for me. If TTK lengthens, 'everything that made this game even resemble an FPS is gone'. I'm going to use that against you here, because an FPS involves tactics. It is tactical, I think we both agree. But if people can get away with pounding each other with dozens of bullets only to regenerate after hiding for a few seconds, is it going to be tactical or is it going to be front-line vs. front-line until the side with the better guns pushes through? Damage mods and Duvolles will be MORE of a problem when you increase TTK because increasing TTK lengthens gametime, and over time the DPS a prototype weapon scales and higher faster than that of an Exile AR, for example. You seem to have your own bias. I'm glad the ball is in CCP's court because I doubt there would be very many people playing if you called the shots. Everyone invests their time, grinding for character growth and to improve their fit. When you invest millions of ISK over a month into your survivability, it should be more than a fraction of a second. People had issues with one suit and one rifle in earlier uprising that eliminated the need to use anything else and CCP fixed the problem, how is this any different? Also, this has been brought up since 1.4 but like everything else around here that isn't a hot topic of the month, it goes ignored. We all have our own opinions, and I am also glad I'm not in charge of this game. I invest my time because it's extremely fun to play with my corporation, to fly dropships, to be a logibro. But I digress. And an interesting point: how is the CalLogi, the flaylock and the DTAR different? Because as I've been saying, this is oversimplifying the matter. We're pointing at "TTK" in general, and saying it's too low. All those previous changes, even the one to armour, had a focus! This doesn't. This is saying go change everything. You've suggested changes to grenades before, if you had mentioned and stuck to that I would've been happy to accept your premise. But removing the 10% damage buff (that was there to compensate for the loss of the 2% per level of Weaponry, which everyone would have had at level 5 in Chromosome anyway, so surely that couldn't be the problem) is a sweeping change that isn't necessary. That WILL increase TTK, sure, but what happens next? Nothing. The Duvolle stacked with damage mods still kills more than anything else, just a little slower. Relatively speaking, nothing changes. So what really are you focusing on? Where is your real argument? TTK is more abstract than modern art. That 10% buff was implemented because nobody could hit anyone. Ambushes ended based on time and KB/M aiming was horrible. This change had no focus, there hasn't been anything in the patch notes specifying TTK, since 1.0. That's obviously because it's a byproduct of stacking a bunch of fixes. Stop making excuses for CCP, they've even openly said they screwed this build up several times. You can have your meat grinder twitch fest for all I care, I'm going to go play something else until they fix it in 2015 or they finally show that supposed road map. My cup of kool-aid is empty. 10% damage didnt come out of thin air.... bangs head against desk Weaponry was a skill that did something 2% damage to all weapons per level... Everyone had level 5 and 10% damage...passively. It was a skill everyone got and gladly... now level 2 and 4 exist purely to **** people off. a skill point sink skill as a MUST for certain classes starting off.. lame 10% is no culprit or fix to anything. specially when we already had that damage in chromosome, with proto suits having 400-500 health and that considered godly amounts. If that were the case, they would have given the -2% scanning profile back to the dropsuit command skill. Hell, the damn weaponry skill would say +2% damage per level but it doesn't. You're comparing an older build to a newer one. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
Cosgar ParagonX 7378	Posted - 2013.11.06 03:54:00 - [23] - Quote Vyzion Eyri wrote: Cosgar wrote: That 10% buff was implemented because nobody could hit anyone. Ambushes ended based on time and KB/M aiming was horrible. This change had no focus, there hasn't been anything in the patch notes specifying TTK, since 1.0. That's obviously because it's a byproduct of stacking a bunch of fixes. Stop making excuses for CCP, they've even openly said they screwed this build up several times. You can have your meat grinder twitch fest for all I care, I'm going to go play something else until they fix it in 2015 or they finally show that supposed road map. My cup of kool-aid is empty. I'm as disenchanted as you, or else I wouldn't be arguing. I don't make excuses for CCP in any other thread requesting change except here, not because my kool-aid cup has a drop more than yours, but because I personally believe this won't work. I've listed my reasons, you've listed yours. If you still believe you're right, I will still believe you're wrong. In the end one of us will have the greater influence over CCP, and it'll probably be you because the community appears to be all for higher TTK. I'll be here to watch it all pan out anyway, and I sincerely hope I won't have to think "I told them." I said my peace across multiple pages. I'm just one guy that plays the game. It's up to the CPM and CCP to take the next step. Arguing on here doesn't make a difference unless I'm crying about mass drivers or flaylock pistols. I should probably thank CCP for making these blunders. It reminds me that I shouldn't get so invested in this game when they still can't figure out what the hell it's supposed to be after a year of beta. Maybe I'll take this time to finish Dark Souls. I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"