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Jungian Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 230	Posted - 2013.11.01 22:25:00 - [1] - Quote After playing Arma and watching Battlefield 4, one thing that would really be fit for DUST is a new reload mechanic. Lets say I have 20 bullets left in the magazine and decide to reload to a fresh magazine; I lose 20 bullets. This makes ammo even more important as it should be. And yea, add different ammo types too while at it. Cya on PS4
Dominus Fatali Nox Aeterna Security 550	Posted - 2013.11.01 23:02:00 - [2] - Quote Jungian wrote: After playing Arma and watching Battlefield 4, one thing that would really be fit for DUST is a new reload mechanic. Lets say I have 20 bullets left in the magazine and decide to reload to a fresh magazine; I lose 20 bullets. This makes ammo even more important as it should be. And yea, add different ammo types too while at it. Cya on PS4 Sure, why not. Would add a greater sense of realism and would require more tactical decision making. Long Live Freedom; Long Live the Federation.
Jadu Wen Xer Cloud Consortium 44	Posted - 2013.11.01 23:13:00 - [3] - Quote This had been discussed in some part with capacitor cells for laser based weaponry. Such weapons would have an extremely high number of shots per cell, however, overheating a cell would destroy that capacitor. Players could only carry a limited quantity of cells at any given time. GûÆGûêGûæGûæGûÆGûê GûÆGûêGûÇGûÇGûÇ GûÆGûêGûäGûæGûÆGûê GûÆGûêGûÆGûêGûÆGûê GûÆGûêGûÇGûÇGûÇ GûÆGûêGûÆGûêGûÆGûê GûÆGûêGûäGûÇGûäGûê GûÆGûêGûäGûäGûä GûÆGûêGûæGûæGûÇGûê ? SoonGäó
MySpaceTom 10	Posted - 2013.11.01 23:26:00 - [4] - Quote If we're getting into changes with magazine mechanics I would being able to save a few extra empty mags to save as "dummy' grenades. Players see something flying through the air they are going to duck for cover, which may give me a life saving second to defend an area or book it. 4920616d204a6164656b204d656e616865696d277320526167696e672042696c652044756374
zibathy numbertwo Nox Aeterna Security 249	Posted - 2013.11.02 00:51:00 - [5] - Quote MySpaceTom wrote: If we're getting into changes with magazine mechanics I would being able to save a few extra empty mags to save as "dummy' grenades. Players see something flying through the air they are going to duck for cover, which may give me a life saving second to defend an area or book it. this is genius Long Live Freedom; Long Live the Federation.
Azri Sarum BurgezzE.T.F Public Disorder. 106	Posted - 2013.11.02 01:03:00 - [6] - Quote Jungian wrote: After playing Arma and watching Battlefield 4, one thing that would really be fit for DUST is a new reload mechanic. Lets say I have 20 bullets left in the magazine and decide to reload to a fresh magazine; I lose 20 bullets. This makes ammo even more important as it should be. And yea, add different ammo types too while at it. Cya on PS4 I guess i'm just not sure what you gain from this. Ammo is already so plentiful between supply depots, hives every 30 feet, and most weapons having massive base supplies that I doubt this would really put a dent into that supply. If you are looking to make peoples ammo supplies more limited i would start with depots and hives, then go from there.
Jungian Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 231	Posted - 2013.11.02 02:08:00 - [7] - Quote Azri Sarum wrote: I guess i'm just not sure what you gain from this. Ammo is already so plentiful between supply depots, hives every 30 feet, and most weapons having massive base supplies that I doubt this would really put a dent into that supply. If you are looking to make peoples ammo supplies more limited i would start with depots and hives, then go from there. Not sure? It might be a simple addition, and might not make that much of a dent, but thats not really the point. Keeping some things real and not arcade would be a nice touch. In my opinion.
Ulysses Knapse duna corp 554	Posted - 2013.11.02 08:36:00 - [8] - Quote No. Games like "Battlefield" and "Call of Duty" are not similar to Dust 514. Don't just take a mechanic from one of those games and paste it into Dust 514 without legitimate reason. That's just silly. Making ammo more important? Come on, man. That's ridiculous. It's already important enough. Humanity is the personification of change.
Eris Ernaga DUST University Ivy League 624	Posted - 2013.11.02 09:55:00 - [9] - Quote Jungian wrote: After playing Arma and watching Battlefield 4, one thing that would really be fit for DUST is a new reload mechanic. Lets say I have 20 bullets left in the magazine and decide to reload to a fresh magazine; I lose 20 bullets. This makes ammo even more important as it should be. And yea, add different ammo types too while at it. Cya on PS4 New Eden needs that realistic element it just feels to much like COD when I picture New Eden I imagine a realistic place with realistic assets. This is one step in the right direction. Hey CCP will be adding ammunition to turrets soon so who knows what they'll do for handheld weapons.
Eris Ernaga DUST University Ivy League 624	Posted - 2013.11.02 09:56:00 - [10] - Quote Azri Sarum wrote: Jungian wrote: After playing Arma and watching Battlefield 4, one thing that would really be fit for DUST is a new reload mechanic. Lets say I have 20 bullets left in the magazine and decide to reload to a fresh magazine; I lose 20 bullets. This makes ammo even more important as it should be. And yea, add different ammo types too while at it. Cya on PS4 I guess i'm just not sure what you gain from this. Ammo is already so plentiful between supply depots, hives every 30 feet, and most weapons having massive base supplies that I doubt this would really put a dent into that supply. If you are looking to make peoples ammo supplies more limited i would start with depots and hives, then go from there. He isn't looking to limit peoples supply just add a since of realism.

Ulysses Knapse duna corp 554	Posted - 2013.11.02 10:14:00 - [11] - Quote Eris Ernaga wrote: Azri Sarum wrote: Jungian wrote: After playing Arma and watching Battlefield 4, one thing that would really be fit for DUST is a new reload mechanic. Lets say I have 20 bullets left in the magazine and decide to reload to a fresh magazine; I lose 20 bullets. This makes ammo even more important as it should be. And yea, add different ammo types too while at it. Cya on PS4 I guess i'm just not sure what you gain from this. Ammo is already so plentiful between supply depots, hives every 30 feet, and most weapons having massive base supplies that I doubt this would really put a dent into that supply. If you are looking to make peoples ammo supplies more limited i would start with depots and hives, then go from there. He isn't looking to limit peoples supply just add a since of realism. sense of realism. Anyway, it's realistic for modern* times, not tens of thousands of years into the future. Humanity is the personification of change.
Jungian Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 233	Posted - 2013.11.02 15:57:00 - [12] - Quote Eris Ernaga wrote: Hey CCP will be adding ammunition to turrets soon so who knows what they'll do for handheld weapons. Oooh awesome. Yes, in broad strokes, its looking like DUST is shaping up more and more to be like EVE.
Jungian Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 234	Posted - 2013.11.02 16:01:00 - [13] - Quote Ulysses Knapse wrote: No. Games like "Battlefield" and "Call of Duty" are not similar to Dust 514. Don't just take a mechanic from one of those games and paste it into Dust 514 without legitimate reason. That's just silly. Making ammo more important? Come on, man. That's ridiculous. It's already important enough. Did I in any way say they are similar? Wtf are you on? "Take" a mechanic from one of those games? Wtf again. It needs a legitimate reason? Wtf? I mentioned Arma btw. And it seems youve never heard of that game, which is basically a military simulator that has mechanics more and more games "take" from. Battlefield 4 has adopted some realism to its arcade, and that has believe it or not improved the game. But its not enough for me to buy it, as its just a recycled BF3. Already important enough? What argument is that? Nah...ammo is really all over the place thanks to nanohive spam.
Ulysses Knapse duna corp 554	Posted - 2013.11.02 16:02:00 - [14] - Quote Jungian wrote: Eris Ernaga wrote: Hey CCP will be adding ammunition to turrets soon so who knows what they'll do for handheld weapons. Oooh awesome. Yes, in broad strokes, its looking like DUST is shaping up more and more to be like EVE. I've never had problems with reloading in EVE. I could fire my turrets a good few minutes before having to reload, and reloading never really hurt my DPS much. That being said, reloading in EVE didn't waste ammo. Humanity is the personification of change.
Jungian Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 234	Posted - 2013.11.02 16:04:00 - [15] - Quote Ulysses Knapse wrote: Jungian wrote: Eris Ernaga wrote: Hey CCP will be adding ammunition to turrets soon so who knows what they'll do for handheld weapons. Oooh awesome. Yes, in broad strokes, its looking like DUST is shaping up more and more to be like EVE. I've never had problems with reloading in EVE. I could fire my turrets a good few minutes before having to reload, and reloading never really hurt my DPS much. That being said, reloading in EVE didn't waste ammo. Oh jesus...I wasnt being literal comparing reloading machineguns vs reloading guns on a spaceship...how dense of you. No, my point is more about DUST being more serious and getting more away from the arcade feels.
Smooth Assassin Stardust incorporation 327	Posted - 2013.11.02 16:16:00 - [16] - Quote Yeah sure... i don't see shotgun getting affected. *Assassination is my thing.*
Ulysses Knapse duna corp 554	Posted - 2013.11.02 16:16:00 - [17] - Quote Jungian wrote: Ulysses Knapse wrote: Jungian wrote: Eris Ernaga wrote: Hey CCP will be adding ammunition to turrets soon so who knows what they'll do for handheld weapons. Oooh awesome. Yes, in broad strokes, its looking like DUST is shaping up more and more to be like EVE. I've never had problems with reloading in EVE. I could fire my turrets a good few minutes before having to reload, and reloading never really hurt my DPS much. That being said, reloading in EVE didn't waste ammo. Oh jesus...I wasnt being literal comparing reloading machineguns vs reloading guns on a spaceship...how dense of you. No, my point is more about DUST being more serious and getting more away from the arcade feels. I do hate those kiddy features... To this day, I still can't take the "+50 Kill" messages that pop up on the screen when I shoot my enemy in the face. The only useful thing about them is that they inform me of a successful kill in case I can't see them fall to the ground. Precision strikes in public battles are the worst. It's just a killstreak by another name. Oh, you're doing well in this match? Here, have this free precision strike so you can do even better! Guh... But that doesn't change the fact that wasting ammunition is pointless. Hey... wait a minute... Frigate Turrets in EVE can hold up to 200 rounds and reload in 5 seconds! How is that not similar to machine guns in Dust 514?! Humanity is the personification of change.
Jungian Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 234	Posted - 2013.11.02 16:18:00 - [18] - Quote Smooth Assassin wrote: Yeah sure... i don't see shotgun getting affected. Oh wow, thats deep.
Jungian Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 234	Posted - 2013.11.02 16:22:00 - [19] - Quote Ulysses Knapse wrote: I do hate those kiddy features... To this day, I still can't take the "+50 Kill" messages that pop up on the screen when I shoot my enemy in the face. The only useful thing about them is that they inform me of a successful kill in case I can't see them fall to the ground. Precision strikes in public battles are the worst. It's just a killstreak by another name. Oh, you're doing well in this match? Here, have this free precision strike so you can do even better! Guh... But that doesn't change the fact that wasting ammunition is pointless. And there is another one whos never heard the saying "make em count". And is there any reason I should care for your pointless whining which has nothing to do with the topic at hand? Again, I wasnt comparing reloading guns on a spaceship vs machineguns. Read my posts please.
Ulysses Knapse duna corp 554	Posted - 2013.11.02 16:41:00 - [20] - Quote Jungian wrote: Ulysses Knapse wrote: I do hate those kiddy features... To this day, I still can't take the "+50 Kill" messages that pop up on the screen when I shoot my enemy in the face. The only useful thing about them is that they inform me of a successful kill in case I can't see them fall to the ground. Precision strikes in public battles are the worst. It's just a killstreak by another name. Oh, you're doing well in this match? Here, have this free precision strike so you can do even better! Guh... But that doesn't change the fact that wasting ammunition is pointless. And there is another one whos never heard the saying "make em count". And is there any reason I should care for your pointless whining which has nothing to do with the topic at hand? Again, I wasnt comparing reloading guns on a spaceship vs machineguns. Read my posts please. By God, are you daft? You don't even like me when I'm agreeing with you. And I don't give a rat's arse whether you aren't comparing machine guns to starship turrets. The point is, there's no reason for the mechanic. Congratulations, you've successfully punished people for reloading in between combat. Are you happy now? If you want to make ammunition more important, just reduce the amount of ammunition we can hold. Humanity is the personification of change.

Jungian Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 236	Posted - 2013.11.02 17:44:00 - [21] - Quote Ulysses Knapse wrote: The point is, there's no reason for the mechanic. Congratulations, you've successfully punished people for reloading in between combat. You missed the point alright. "No reason" for the mechanic is simply your simple opinion as mine is. But since you see yourself being punished for something like that, I can only say...get better. Reducing the amount of ammo is not even my point. I just want more sense of realism. But even that is something you cant look past, as that realism would be punishing you. And I am the daft one?
Galvan Nized Deep Space Republic Top Men. 227	Posted - 2013.11.02 18:54:00 - [22] - Quote I kind of like this idea, very few games do this. This would give a negative to quick magazine (or whatever lasers use) reload weapons. Those weapons that do not use mags (SG, PlaCan, some future sniper rifles?) have slower complete reloads but would be more efficient in terms of ammo. Ammo may hardly be an issue in the game but it would be a slight setback that would help out progressive reload weapons.
Templar 514 Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 23	Posted - 2013.11.02 20:20:00 - [23] - Quote Jungian wrote: After playing Arma and watching Battlefield 4, one thing that would really be fit for DUST is a new reload mechanic. Lets say I have 20 bullets left in the magazine and decide to reload to a fresh magazine; I lose 20 bullets. This makes ammo even more important as it should be. And yea, add different ammo types too while at it. Cya on PS4 Are you sure that you've played ArmA? Or any post-Bad Company BF title? Because in BF:BC, BC2, BF3, BF4, and ArmA 2, reloading doesn't discard the ammo in the magazine. In Battlefield titles, it's magically consolidated into full, fresh magazines, while ArmA actually tracks the amount of ammunition expended from a mag. As an aside, it's asinine to say this would add realism, because actual soldiers do not discard half-used magazines. Bullets may be cheap, but my good friend Murphy- you might have heard of some laws he wrote- has always maintained that it is impossible to have enough ammunition. In any case, seeing as how this is THE FUTURE, and at least half of our weapons employ some kind of powercell since they are actually DEWs, then it actually makes sense for a limited number of powerpacks to be used and the charge to be replenished from a dropsuit's power supply- and thus no ammunition is discarded. Further, this mechanic is pointless; from a mechanical perspective, nanohive/supply depot proliferation nullifies it entirely, while from a background/lore angle, it's absolutely the most stupid thing ever. DUST is a game in which ammo is only relevant in a peripheral manner- consider how plentiful and easy it is for medium/light frames to resupply themselves (heavybros have trouble because being fat means being slow if you're on foot, and regular heavies have no equipment slot). Further, we are immortal mercenaries. We consider our dropsuits, vehicles, and every single module, weapon, and piece of equipment we put on the field to, ultimately, be expendable. WHY SHOULD WE CARE ABOUT HOW MUCH AMMO WE USE UP?! We're immortal and compared to a common grunt we're obscenely wealthy. If you don't understand the ArmA mechanic, than consider a weapon with 2 mags of ammo, each holding 10 rounds. You fire and expend 6 rounds from the first mag, reload, and then later on expend 4 rounds from the second. When you reload again, you will have 6 rounds, and not 10; upon depleting/reloading the 1st mag again, you will have 4 rounds. This is actually realistic.
Ulysses Knapse duna corp 554	Posted - 2013.11.02 20:38:00 - [24] - Quote Jungian wrote: I just want more sense of realism. It's not realism, it's just stupid. Who is to say that our suits and weapons don't come with reload-assist servos that allow us to reload without wasting a magazine? Humanity is the personification of change.
Galvan Nized Deep Space Republic Top Men. 228	Posted - 2013.11.02 21:05:00 - [25] - Quote Ulysses Knapse wrote: Jungian wrote: I just want more sense of realism. It's not realism, it's just stupid. Who is to say that our suits and weapons don't come with reload-assist servos that allow us to reload without wasting a magazine? Why do they have reloads at all? I mean it's the future where nanites create our ammo from thin air but they cannot do this inside the weapon? Why are some weapons single fire and others progressive reloads while some weapons have unlimited ammo?
Jungian Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 240	Posted - 2013.11.02 21:20:00 - [26] - Quote Galvan Nized wrote: Why do they have reloads at all? I mean it's the future where nanites create our ammo from thin air but they cannot do this inside the weapon? Why are some weapons single fire and others progressive reloads while some weapons have unlimited ammo? Finally someone got it. If no reload realism, then dont bring in magazines.
Jungian Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 240	Posted - 2013.11.02 21:27:00 - [27] - Quote Templar 514 wrote: *If you don't understand the ArmA mechanic, than consider a weapon with 2 mags of ammo, each holding 10 rounds. You fire and expend 6 rounds from the first mag, reload, and then later on expend 4 rounds from the second. When you reload again, you will have 6 rounds, and not 10; upon depleting/reloading the 1st mag again, you will have 4 rounds. This is actually realistic. True, and this mechanic is even better. And I see the whiny children won over with BF4, as they removed the new reload mechanic. In Arma, soldiers don't discard unused ammunition each time they replace a clip. They hold on to their clips and recycle ammunition. The thing is, most players are just so used to hit reload after some kills or when a threat is gone, that's why its so opposed I guess. Cant handle change.
Ulysses Knapse duna corp 554	Posted - 2013.11.02 21:30:00 - [28] - Quote Jungian wrote: Galvan Nized wrote: Why do they have reloads at all? I mean it's the future where nanites create our ammo from thin air but they cannot do this inside the weapon? Why are some weapons single fire and others progressive reloads while some weapons have unlimited ammo? Finally someone got it. If no reload realism, then dont bring in magazines. DO YOU NOT GET IT?! THERE'S NO NEED FOR REALISM! GAMEPLAY IS THE MOST IMPORTANT ASPECT! HAVING A SENSE OF REALISM MEANS NOTHING! CAPS LOCK MEANS EVERYTHING! I'M NOT ACTUALLY YELLING, BY THE WAY. Humanity is the personification of change.
Jungian Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 240	Posted - 2013.11.02 21:37:00 - [29] - Quote Ulysses Knapse wrote: Jungian wrote: Galvan Nized wrote: Why do they have reloads at all? I mean it's the future where nanites create our ammo from thin air but they cannot do this inside the weapon? Why are some weapons single fire and others progressive reloads while some weapons have unlimited ammo? Finally someone got it. If no reload realism, then dont bring in magazines. DO YOU NOT GET IT?! THERE'S NO NEED FOR REALISM! GAMEPLAY IS THE MOST IMPORTANT ASPECT! HAVING A SENSE OF REALISM MEANS NOTHING! CAPS LOCK MEANS EVERYTHING! I'M NOT ACTUALLY YELLING, BY THE WAY. As a former Marine, realism in shooter games means a lot to me, but not everything like it seems for you, as you would only be punished. Youd have a great time with COD and BF4 btw.
Templar 514 Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 24	Posted - 2013.11.02 22:35:00 - [30] - Quote Jungian wrote: True, and this mechanic is even better. And I see the whiny children won over with BF4, as they removed the new reload mechanic from core servers. In Arma, soldiers don't discard unused ammunition each time they replace a clip. They hold on to their clips and recycle ammunition like a real soldier. The thing is most videogame players are just so used to the reload mechanic they have been doing for years: Hit reload after some kills or when a threat is gone. And that's why its so opposed I guess. Cant handle change. Which means, if DUST really wants to stand out, and not be like BF4 or COD..give it a new reload mechanic ....What new reload mechanic in BF4? I'm honestly curious, as I was under the impression that the BF3 reload mechanics were carried over into BF4- the latter of which I do not own/haven't played. The main issue with an ArmA-style reload in DUST is that for some weapons it genuinely does not make sense, especially when considering that we are wearing micro-fusion-reactor-equipped power armor. I should not reload my laser rifle, and then end up with three powerpacks that have 40, 70, and 10 percent of the pack left in my inventory; it should be automatically collated into a replenished powerpack. This is something that is applicable to the current AR, as well as the Scrambler Rifle&Pistol, and the yet-to-arrive Ion Pistol. Now, I can see where hybrid/rail and projectile weapons- such as the upcoming rail&combat rifles, and the already-in HMG, SMG, Sniper Rifle, and FG- being changed to an ArmA-style reload mechanic would have logic, but the main issue is that it would either push most players into ARs even more, with some taking up ScRs, or there would be complaints about the consistency of this, or rather the lack thereof. As far as the mechanics of reloading... TBQH, I think that the real reason most people are so opposed to a change to it is because it's simple and it works. In the case of DUST, I personally think that it's unnecessary due to the reasons I outline above, as well as the far more pressing issues with bugs, polish, and a lack of content- though much of this is looking to be corrected in Uprising 1.6/1.7. The other thing, of course, is that the only games I generally did not hit reload when I was safe were the earlier BF titles, like BFV, BF2, and BF2142, were due to the fact that ammo was somewhat limited- especially in 2&2142, where there were no on-map locations to resupply yourself, and ammunition was not retained from discarded magazines. The other thing, of course, is that I'd wager for high-level play people would still not care because they'd want to have the advantage of a full clip rather than preserving some ammo, especially since anyone (except non-Commando heavies) can fit a nanohive to replenish at least some portion of their ammo. Ultimately, the flaw I see in such a system is that it doesn't actually make DUST very different. Additionally, we can already change dropsuits at Supply Depots, and replenish our supply of deployable equipment- which, combined with SD resupply, would allow players to entirely circumvent any limitations on ammo supply. If you want to make DUST different from the competition, then, IMO, you should actually emphasize what makes DUST different already- the EVE-DUST link, the truly persistent universe, the ability of players to have an actual, tangible effect on the gameworld, an actual economy and P2P market. Yes, some of the things I mentioned are still only on the drawing board- but CCP is working on them- they've talked about it, shown screenshots of it. Insofar as 'making DUST different', I think CCP has a plan for it, and, IMHO, they have one which will really show that DUST is different, and that it is, in fact, so different as to offer an experience unlike any other shooter, released or planned.

Jungian Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 240	Posted - 2013.11.02 22:38:00 - [31] - Quote Jesus that is so contrived I wont bother to read it, sorry. But it surely does come off as pretty desperate. I have no need to argument with something like that.
Knight Soiaire Taco Eating Ninja Monkeys 2947	Posted - 2013.11.02 22:39:00 - [32] - Quote I like it, it adds a sense of realism. But at the same time, I dont like it, because I'm a reloadaholic, even if I shoot one bullet, I have to reload. Raffle draw will be in 2-3 days CAF Scrub - BHD Scrub - 100% Scrub guaranteed. (Scrub approved by GJR himself)
Jungian Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 240	Posted - 2013.11.02 22:40:00 - [33] - Quote Knight Soiaire wrote: I like it, it adds a sense of realism. But at the same time, I dont like it, because I'm a reloadaholic, even if I shoot one bullet, I have to reload. hehe, exactly. Thats why adapting to something new could perhaps bring in a new addiction ^
Dominus Fatali Nox Aeterna Security 564	Posted - 2013.11.02 22:42:00 - [34] - Quote Knight Soiaire wrote: I like it, it adds a sense of realism. But at the same time, I dont like it, because I'm a reloadaholic, even if I shoot one bullet, I have to reload. I agree. 79/80 in my SMG is not acceptable. Long Live Freedom; Long Live the Federation.
CLONE117 Planetary Response Organization Test Friends Please Ignore 442	Posted - 2013.11.02 22:45:00 - [35] - Quote id like to keep those 3 bullets when reloading. i need to conserve ammo. now unless u give players the ability to resupply ammo from dead corpses on the battlefield this should not happen. as ppl tend to reload after every shot. now this would mean those players would run out of ammo before every1 else on the map. but after u kill your enemy and survive a fire fight. rnt u gonna have to reload your gun at some point in time? u finished up a fight and have a a bunch of rounds left in your gun. and so its best to reload to get your gun ready for any encounter. this would just mean that u wouldnt be able to kill anything as every1 would have no ammo. imagine a heavy with an hmg. 425 fires 200. reloads for next encounter. loses all that use full ammo. its unneeded, will hurt gameplay even more, and is completely pointless. _______________________________________________________________________________________________ 100% chance of trolls is to be expected.
Jungian Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 240	Posted - 2013.11.02 22:50:00 - [36] - Quote i lold. some long posts here with basically no arguments other than subjective whining. DUST feels pretty generic together with the generic reload mechanic. I want something new to play with ingame. Remove the insane spawn uplink spam while at it too.
Nocturnal Soul Immortal Retribution 990	Posted - 2013.11.02 23:01:00 - [37] - Quote I like it, it'll hurt me since im so use to reloading after every shot but hey "Its New Eden out there". "The trick to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources..." Albert Einstein
Jungian Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 240	Posted - 2013.11.02 23:31:00 - [38] - Quote Nocturnal Soul wrote: I like it, it'll hurt me since im so use to reloading after every shot but hey "Its New Eden out there". hah. i wasnt meaning to make it sound THAT bad I do understand the arguments against it, and I get it. But dont they also get the boring generic reload all fps games seem to have now?
Benjamin Ciscko The Generals EoN. 172	Posted - 2013.11.02 23:50:00 - [39] - Quote I disagree I think a system like this would be better, you have a total of 300 bullets with 60 in a magazine, so you have 5 total magazines. You fire off 40 rounds and reload you now have 260 bullets but when you cycle back to this magazine it only has 20 bullets. This implies your putting your magazines back in your "belt" not just throwing them away also when resupplying if you have 260 bullets from the scenario above you will not get any magazines if you have 200 bullets from the scenario above accept you ate through a magazine from before hand you will only get 60 bullets or one magazine. Vehicle rework scheduled for 1.5.... 1.6.... 1.7........ Tanker/Logi Wait until AV feels the pain vehicle users have
Jungian Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 240	Posted - 2013.11.03 00:15:00 - [40] - Quote Benjamin Ciscko wrote: I disagree I think a system like this would be better, you have a total of 300 bullets with 60 in a magazine, so you have 5 total magazines. You fire off 40 rounds and reload you now have 260 bullets but when you cycle back to this magazine it only has 20 bullets. This implies your putting your magazines back in your "belt" not just throwing them away also when resupplying if you have 260 bullets from the scenario above you will not get any magazines if you have 200 bullets from the scenario above accept you ate through a magazine from before hand you will only get 60 bullets or one magazine. This could truly work for DUST indeed. And different ammo types to spice it up some more.

Benjamin Ciscko The Generals EoN. 173	Posted - 2013.11.03 00:21:00 - [41] - Quote Jungian wrote: Benjamin Ciscko wrote: I disagree I think a system like this would be better, you have a total of 300 bullets with 60 in a magazine, so you have 5 total magazines. You fire off 40 rounds and reload you now have 260 bullets but when you cycle back to this magazine it only has 20 bullets. This implies your putting your magazines back in your "belt" not just throwing them away also when resupplying if you have 260 bullets from the scenario above you will not get any magazines if you have 200 bullets from the scenario above accept you ate through a magazine from before hand you will only get 60 bullets or one magazine. This could truly work for DUST indeed. And different ammo types to spice it up some more. Yes Emp rounds sound attractive they'll do more shield less to armor and "piercing" rounds will do the opposite. Vehicle rework scheduled for 1.5.... 1.6.... 1.7........ Tanker/Logi Wait until AV feels the pain vehicle users have
Jungian Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 240	Posted - 2013.11.03 00:26:00 - [42] - Quote Benjamin Ciscko wrote: Yes Emp rounds sound attractive they'll do more shield less to armor and "piercing" rounds will do the opposite. Ooh yea..your ideas are already scratching me right where I itch.
Justin Tymes Dem Durrty Boyz Public Disorder. 477	Posted - 2013.11.03 00:50:00 - [43] - Quote Why? Should the game have to tell you when to reload your gun?
Ulysses Knapse duna corp 555	Posted - 2013.11.03 02:28:00 - [44] - Quote The benefits of this system you're proposing... a greater sense of "realism"? That's nice. Now, realism is great and all, but only when it positively improves the gameplay experience. This is an example of something that would not improve the gameplay experience. Why? Because it's a very small addition that is likely to be overlooked, except to those who are hurt by it. I think the gameplay experience for everyone is more important than the "sense of realism" for a few. Humanity is the personification of change.
Galvan Nized Deep Space Republic Top Men. 229	Posted - 2013.11.03 02:40:00 - [45] - Quote Templar 514 wrote: The main issue with an ArmA-style reload in DUST is that for some weapons it genuinely does not make sense, especially when considering that we are wearing micro-fusion-reactor-equipped power armor. I should not reload my laser rifle, and then end up with three powerpacks that have 40, 70, and 10 percent of the pack left in my inventory; it should be automatically collated into a replenished powerpack. This is something that is applicable to the current AR, as well as the Scrambler Rifle&Pistol, and the yet-to-arrive Ion Pistol. The other thing, of course, is that I'd wager for high-level play people would still not care because they'd want to have the advantage of a full clip rather than preserving some ammo, especially since anyone (except non-Commando heavies) can fit a nanohive to replenish at least some portion of their ammo. It can work with laser weapons very easily, imagine they use energy cells. You use so much energy cell then you reload, but, imagining that they are sort of like batteries, you may not have completely used one up. When have we all not recycled old batteries? Yes this does not limit ammo and to many it would only be a minor setback. But it adds some flavor and requires one to be more ammunition efficient. No one is going to waste a nanohive for a few rounds. I like this because it actually gives something to the progressive reload and single fire weapons. Right now reloading for them has only drawbacks.
Templar 514 Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 24	Posted - 2013.11.03 02:59:00 - [46] - Quote Jungian wrote: snipped undignified whining, which is only to be expected from a Matari If you won't bother to read it, then you shouldn't have bothered to post in the first place. Incidentally, I've read in the time since my last post that the Xbox 360/PS3 copies of BF4 had BF3-style reloading, which leads me to believe that the mechanic wherein you lost any ammunition left when reloading was actually a glitch, rather than a feature. And again, even an ArmA-style mechanic doesn't exactly make sense with certain weapons in DUST, such as the Laser, Scrambler Rifle and Scrambler Pistol. Such a mechanic would have to be all-or-nothing, because otherwise such weapons will be neglected, and even then there's still the issue of consistency. There's also the issue that DUST isn't really supposed to be a military simulator, but is designed around being a high-HP tracking shooter with tactical gameplay. A high-HP tracking shooter will, by nature, require players to expend larger amounts of ammunition killing each other than a comparable twitch shooter. Consider that, averaging the values, an unfit medium frame, non-logi, dropsuit, with no passive skills, will have ~326 EHP. A Prof V Duvolle with a Cx damage mod is often touted as doing ~50 damage per shot, which means it requires ~7 hits to kill an unfit medium frame. Using an average from the CalAssault and GalAssault suits, with the following fits, in regards to tank (this is all of the top of my head, BTW, so it's very back-of-the-envelope): Caldari Assault C-I (120/210 armor/shield base, 150/263 with L5 passives); total EHP: ~604 Cx Shield (66 shield base/~73 shield L5 skill) Basic Shield (22 base/~24 L5) Basic Plate (85 base/~94 L5) GalAssault G-I (210/120 armor/shield base, 263/150 w/ L5s) ; total EHP: ~723 Enhanced Plate (110 base/122 L5) Basic Plate (85 base/94 L5) Basic Plate (85 base/94 L5) Averaging the two gives us ~664 EHP, for a tank-fit STD dropsuit. That Duvolle from before? Yeah, it'll take ~14 shots to kill 664 EHP. That's approximately 20% of an AR magazine, and doesn't account for accuracy losses due to strafing/counter-strafing, recoil, and spread, or damage drop-off due to range. Jungian wrote: i lold. some long posts here with basically no arguments other than subjective whining. DUST feels pretty generic together with the generic reload mechanic. I want something new to play with ingame. Remove the insane spawn uplink spam while at it too. I like the assumption of "everyone who disagrees with me is whining, because I am always right" /sarcasm. Jungian wrote: I do understand the arguments against it, and I get it. But dont they also get the boring generic reload all fps games seem to have now? Evidently you don't understand the arguments, because otherwise you would not degrade those who disagree with you by saying that they are "whining", and not presenting an actual argument. Benjamin Ciscko wrote: describes ArmA ammunition management system That's pretty much the system used in the ArmA series. The main flaw, however, is that DUST and ArmA are two incredibly different games. Such a system makes perfect sense for a game intended to be more of a simulation of actual combat, but do not fit in a game designed to be a high-HP tracking shooter, which DUST is. The other issue is that, IMO, this horrifically rapes the immersion factor. I'm a power-armored immortal mercenary. WHY WOULD I CARRY AMMO ON MY BELT?! In fact, why am I even wearing a belt? I would assume that the armor has necessary compartments/nanite fabbers to supply me with any and all needs in regards to munitions and supplies. Ulysses Knapse wrote: The benefits of this system you're proposing... a greater sense of "realism"? That's nice. Now, realism is great and all, but only when it positively improves the gameplay experience. This is an example of something that would not improve the gameplay experience. Why? Because it's a very small addition that is likely to be overlooked, except to those who are hurt by it. I think the gameplay experience for everyone is more important than the "sense of realism" for a few. Incidentally OP, this guy here, he knows what he's talking about and gives a much more concise reason than I have. Also, stupid quote limits, so I will continue this momentarily.
Templar 514 Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 24	Posted - 2013.11.03 03:04:00 - [47] - Quote Galvan Nized wrote: It can work with laser weapons very easily, imagine they use energy cells. You use so much energy cell then you reload, but, imagining that they are sort of like batteries, you may not have completely used one up. When have we all not recycled old batteries? Yes this does not limit ammo and to many it would only be a minor setback. But it adds some flavor and requires one to be more ammunition efficient. No one is going to waste a nanohive for a few rounds. I like this because it actually gives something to the progressive reload and single fire weapons. Right now reloading for them has only drawbacks. Laser weapons are already described as using powercells. However, given that we are immortal mercenaries wearing powered armor, then why can't we simply concede the fact that a dropsuit's powerplant can recharge partially-expended powercells? And again going off of that aspect of DUST, why do we care about ammo usage efficiency anyway? We're immortal, and we count our profits and losses according to what is destroyed, not what is expended. Put another way, I don't care how much ammo I burn in a battle, I care about how many dropsuits I lose, since that, when balanced against the payout, will determine profit.
Mobius Wyvern Guardian Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY 3781	Posted - 2013.11.03 03:05:00 - [48] - Quote Jungian wrote: After playing Arma and watching Battlefield 4, one thing that would really be fit for DUST is a new reload mechanic. Lets say I have 20 bullets left in the magazine and decide to reload to a fresh magazine; I lose 20 bullets. This makes ammo even more important as it should be. And yea, add different ammo types too while at it. Cya on PS4 Honestly, that would place more emphasis on having a good support player along with your squad. Good for gameplay and makes more sense from a realism standpoint. Win-win. Amidst the blue skies A link from past to future The sheltering wings of the protector
Templar 514 Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 24	Posted - 2013.11.03 03:09:00 - [49] - Quote Mobius Wyvern wrote: Honestly, that would place more emphasis on having a good support player along with your squad. Good for gameplay and makes more sense from a realism standpoint. Win-win. Not really. Any medium/light frame suit, as well as Commando suits, can equip a nanohive, thus completely nullifying any problem.
Galvan Nized Deep Space Republic Top Men. 229	Posted - 2013.11.03 04:19:00 - [50] - Quote Templar 514 wrote: Laser weapons are already described as using powercells. However, given that we are immortal mercenaries wearing powered armor, then why can't we simply concede the fact that a dropsuit's powerplant can recharge partially-expended powercells? And again going off of that aspect of DUST, why do we care about ammo usage efficiency anyway? We're immortal, and we count our profits and losses according to what is destroyed, not what is expended. Put another way, I don't care how much ammo I burn in a battle, I care about how many dropsuits I lose, since that, when balanced against the payout, will determine profit. Because it follows an FPS convention. Seriously you're getting too wrapped up in the futuristic lore and just adding your spin however you want. Again if your suit can recharge cells, why do we need to even reload at all? How can nanites create ammunition but technologically we haven't advanced beyond magazines? FPS convention dictates this game more than the futuristic motif. You misunderstand what I meant by ammo efficiency. Reloading early in with a magazine weapon means there is still ammo in the clip which you either wasted as you discard it or you are forced to recycle if you don't find a resupply. Do this often enough and you end up with clips of dwindling ammo in the clip because you were terribly inefficient. Progressive reload or single fire weapons use all their ammo without a waste and never will get to the point where they don't have much ammo in the chamber (unless the ultimately are nearly out of ammo) thus they are more efficient.

Mobius Wyvern Guardian Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY 3781	Posted - 2013.11.03 04:54:00 - [51] - Quote Templar 514 wrote: Mobius Wyvern wrote: Honestly, that would place more emphasis on having a good support player along with your squad. Good for gameplay and makes more sense from a realism standpoint. Win-win. Not really. Any medium/light frame suit, as well as Commando suits, can equip a nanohive, thus completely nullifying any problem. But that then leaves you using up CPU/PG that could be used on your tank or weapons. The changes to nanohives way back when mean that you aren't going to get jack unless you work up to the highest tier ones, or at the very least ADV level. Amidst the blue skies A link from past to future The sheltering wings of the protector
Templar 514 Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 25	Posted - 2013.11.03 05:48:00 - [52] - Quote Galvan Nized wrote: Because it follows an FPS convention. Seriously you're getting too wrapped up in the futuristic lore and just adding your spin however you want. Again if your suit can recharge cells, why do we need to even reload at all? How can nanites create ammunition but technologically we haven't advanced beyond magazines? FPS convention dictates this game more than the futuristic motif. You misunderstand what I meant by ammo efficiency. Reloading early in with a magazine weapon means there is still ammo in the clip which you either wasted as you discard it or you are forced to recycle if you don't find a resupply. Do this often enough and you end up with clips of dwindling ammo in the clip because you were terribly inefficient. Progressive reload or single fire weapons use all their ammo without a waste and never will get to the point where they don't have much ammo in the chamber (unless the ultimately are nearly out of ammo) thus they are more efficient. Look, I'm going to say it short and simple, because you obviously do not get the point. The system in DUST works fine, and CCP already has a plan to make DUST different from its competition- and it's by far better than your idea. The saying "Don't fix what isn't broken" applies here. The reload mechanic in DUST is perfectly functional and does what a player expects, so why should we change it? To differentiate DUST against its competition, when DUST is already far and away different? Seriously, I've been thinking about picking up Battlefield 3 again, and then I think about the things I can do in DUST, and the awesome differences, how I can fit my suit, my way, to perfectly suit my playstyle, and the situation at hand. I just don't have that freedom in BF3, and I highly doubt that I'd get that freedom in BF4, or any other multiplayer shooter. Mobius Wyvern wrote: But that then leaves you using up CPU/PG that could be used on your tank or weapons. The changes to nanohives way back when mean that you aren't going to get jack unless you work up to the highest tier ones, or at the very least ADV level. Forgive me, since I haven't the slightest clue what they changed about nanohives (I was all heavy all the time in Chrome). I also find that I generally can resupply a good amount from even a single STD-level hive, and compared to a Scanner or a DU the 20 CPU/4 PG required to fit one is quite palatable. For a scout I can see how even that might be rather egregious, but for assault players I really don't think that it's all that much of a sacrifice to slap on a STD-level hive. Admittedly, I do rather agree that ADV hives are unquestionably superior, and I used to generally try to squeeze a K2 hive onto most of my ADV level fits- now I generally pick between K2s/STD-level depending on fitting resources left over, or if I'm running my Logi A/1-Series I'll try to squeeze an X3 Quantum hive on there. Still, I do think that 20 CPU/4 PG isn't a lot to make room for on the typical assault suit fit.
Galvan Nized Deep Space Republic Top Men. 230	Posted - 2013.11.03 06:15:00 - [53] - Quote Man you could go everywhere with "it ain't broke don't fix it." Don't add a commander role because we are fine with what we currently have...everything has a place and why add wrinkles. Matchmaking ain't broke, it just sucks, so why bother fixing it? It's simply an idea that adds realism or depth or disadvantage to mag reloads, pick whichever of these you like the most. Noone is saying ONLY add this to Dust to make it different, it's a genuinely decent idea. At the very least it warrants some discussion. I get it you don't like the idea, you think it changes things too much and people would hate it.
Templar 514 Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 25	Posted - 2013.11.03 07:26:00 - [54] - Quote A Commander role has been something floated as a potential/likely feature. Matchmaking is halfway broken, but mostly because of the low player counts DUST is currently trudging through. When it comes down to it, this is the kind of mechanic that would have had to be tested/put forward WAY back in the closed beta at the latest, if not something that would have been considered in the alpha build. DUST has been running for too long in open beta/'release' for something so basic to be so radically changed. The other issue is that changing this mechanic would require significant man-hours sunk into coding it. I'll be somewhat conservative and say that only the coders who work on the core engine functionality would be pulled for this, but that's still manhours sunk into what would be a mostly unnoticed mechanic, instead of being put into engine improvements, bugfixes, netcode improvements, and adjusting the engine to accommodate new features.
Jungian Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 241	Posted - 2013.11.03 14:38:00 - [55] - Quote Templar 514 wrote: A Commander role has been something floated as a potential/likely feature. Matchmaking is halfway broken, but mostly because of the low player counts DUST is currently trudging through. When it comes down to it, this is the kind of mechanic that would have had to be tested/put forward WAY back in the closed beta at the latest, if not something that would have been considered in the alpha build. DUST has been running for too long in open beta/'release' for something so basic to be so radically changed. The other issue is that changing this mechanic would require significant man-hours sunk into coding it. I'll be somewhat conservative and say that only the coders who work on the core engine functionality would be pulled for this, but that's still manhours sunk into what would be a mostly unnoticed mechanic, instead of being put into engine improvements, bugfixes, netcode improvements, and adjusting the engine to accommodate new features. hah, your arguments are so moot and pretty deflecting. now its suddenly about conserving manhours put into code? conserving manhours? seriously? did you work for CCP and got fired? and please. DUST has been changing none stop since the closed beta, and is not on the same roadmap anymore. Adding new mechanics is part of DUST's development. Look at it in 10 years compared to now...its gonna be a whole other thing. Just like EVE.
Jungian Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 241	Posted - 2013.11.03 14:47:00 - [56] - Quote Templar 514 wrote: Evidently you don't understand the arguments, because otherwise you would not degrade those who disagree with you by saying that they are "whining", and not presenting an actual argument. Incase you missed it, I've been looking at the issue from a realistic angle and not a subjective angle. If its the future, there shouldnt be magazines at all and the New Eden tech should be way past what we use now ingame. But if what we use now, that looks to be based on modern magazines...it truly should have some realism to it, to make DUST into something even less generic. For you and the other whiner it would obviously be punishment, and probably game-breaking for you. I have played DUST since the closed beta and have not stopped playing because of any new features or mechanics they brought in, except for the annoying bugs.. And when it comes to the generic shooting mechanics of DUST, I am pretty sure that will change too over time.
Talos Vagheitan 127	Posted - 2013.11.03 15:49:00 - [57] - Quote Jungian wrote: After playing Arma and watching Battlefield 4, one thing that would really be fit for DUST is a new reload mechanic. Lets say I have 20 bullets left in the magazine and decide to reload to a fresh magazine; I lose 20 bullets. This makes ammo even more important as it should be. And yea, add different ammo types too while at it. Cya on PS4 Rather than lose the bullets, It'd be better if a clip with 20 less bullets went back in your pocket. SOCOM did this, it worked well. Obviously nanohives would fill up your old clips. Welcome to the roughnecks.... RICO'S ROUGHNECKS!
Ulysses Knapse duna corp 561	Posted - 2013.11.03 16:36:00 - [58] - Quote Apparently, I have to be clearer with my arguments. For this I shall use a "Pro/Con List" Pros: +More similar to real life (arguably, though I'm not even sure if this is a pro or not) Cons: -Habitual reloaders will be pissed as all hell -Snipers will be pissed as all hell -Forge Gunners will be pissed as all hell -Laser Riflemen will be pissed as all hell -Swarm Launchmen(?) will be pissed as all hell Actually, I think I'm going to stop there. You can see where I'm going, right? If you haven't noticed by now, in this game, if you want to kill someone, you'll definitely want a full clip ready. If you want to kill multiple people, you'll need a full clip ready, if not more. Some people even go dual SMG just because one clip just isn't enough for their purposes. You understand, right? When is the last time you didn't reload your Laser Rifle at half a clip? How about your Mass Driver? Sniper Rifle? Scrambler Pistol? This isn't ARMA, or Battlefield 4. It's not even close. Humanity is the personification of change.
Lynn Beck Granite Mercenary Division 189	Posted - 2013.11.03 20:30:00 - [59] - Quote I jut thought this whole time they had a slot in their backpack that springloads the ammo into the clip, that way you stick with maybe 3 clips the whole game. CCP wants me to specialize? But there's so many weapons! 'Unwise SP spending mode activated'
Templar 514 Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 25	Posted - 2013.11.03 22:04:00 - [60] - Quote Jungian wrote: hah, your arguments are so moot and pretty deflecting. now its suddenly about conserving manhours put into code? conserving manhours? seriously? did you work for CCP and got fired? and please. DUST has been changing none stop since the closed beta, and is not on the same roadmap anymore. Adding new mechanics is part of DUST's development. Look at it in 10 years compared to now...its gonna be a whole other thing. Just like EVE. For the record, no, I've never worked for CCP. However, I do really believe that there are much better things that the devs could be putting their time and effort into than trying to bring you idea to fruition. Secondly, I'm bringing that up as a non-lore/-gameplay related issue. If you are unable to refute it, then I will gladly accept your concession and drop the matter. Thirdly, do consider that an ArmA style reload mechanic would cause increased server load, which is a very bad thing considering that DUST is sharing its primary server architecture with another game that already has players pushing the server capacity to the limit. Jungian wrote: Incase you missed it, I've been looking at the issue from a realistic angle and not a subjective angle. If its the future, there shouldnt be magazines at all and the New Eden tech should be way past what we use now ingame. But if what we use now, that looks to be based on modern magazines...it truly should have some realism to it, to make DUST into something even less generic. For you and the other whiner it would obviously be punishment, and probably game-breaking for you. I have played DUST since the closed beta and have not stopped playing because of any new features or mechanics they brought in, except for the annoying bugs.. And when it comes to the generic shooting mechanics of DUST, I am pretty sure that will change too over time. I'll lay out the little issue you're running into right now: Gameplay>Lore>Realism. Gameplay is king, after that is Lore, and if there's anything left over for Realism, then it gets a little bit of cake. Otherwise, realism can take a flying leap. Again, the point is that this mechanic would really just end up hurting more than helping DUST differentiate itself from any competition it has. And, IMO, it seems CCP is looking to make DUST different by focusing on the fact that DUST is the only game in the world to be running on, and connected to, a single-shard persistent MMO that is running on an entirely different platform. As an aside, if you knew anything about EVE/DUST lore, you'd know that the current powers only came out of a dark age in the last millenium, before expanding out and starting to rebuild their space capability. Talos Vagheitan wrote: Rather than lose the bullets, It'd be better if a clip with 20 less bullets went back in your pocket. SOCOM did this, it worked well. Obviously nanohives would fill up your old clips. I'll reiterate myself (again) in saying that ArmA used the method you're describing. As I mentioned above, however, this would require additional developer resources to implement that could be used for more useful things (like balance changes, engine improvements for new equipment/weapon/vehicle/dropsuit functionality, new content development/deployment), and would cause a server load increase. Certainly a tiny increase per player, but consider that CCP wants to eventually have a very large playerbase for DUST, and that starts adding up until it hits a cascade effect, at which point CCP's servers spontaneously combust. Well, maybe not that, per se, but you get the point. Ulysses Knapse wrote: Apparently, I have to be clearer with my arguments. For this I shall use a "Pro/Con List" Pros: +More similar to real life (arguably, though I'm not even sure if this is a pro or not) Cons: -Habitual reloaders will be pissed as all hell -Snipers will be pissed as all hell -Forge Gunners will be pissed as all hell -Laser Riflemen will be pissed as all hell -Swarm Launchmen(?) will be pissed as all hell Actually, I think I'm going to stop there. You can see where I'm going, right? If you haven't noticed by now, in this game, if you want to kill someone, you'll definitely want a full clip ready. If you want to kill multiple people, you'll need a full clip ready, if not more. Some people even go dual SMG just because one clip just isn't enough for their purposes. You understand, right? When is the last time you didn't reload your Laser Rifle at half a clip? How about your Mass Driver? Sniper Rifle? Scrambler Pistol? This isn't ARMA, or Battlefield 4. It's not even close. I think I've disagreed with you a couple of times, but on this count at least, we both have the same general position: OPs idea is bad, and he refuses to take the time to listen to people telling him so. Lynn Beck wrote: I jut thought this whole time they had a slot in their backpack that springloads the ammo into the clip, that way you stick with maybe 3 clips the whole game. I've always assumed that, considering we are immortal mercenaries wearing super-advanced power armor, this- or something similar to it- was the case.

Jungian Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 241	Posted - 2013.11.04 00:56:00 - [61] - Quote Hah Im being told by 2 people its a bad idea. That will truly make me change my mind! Great logic there, still majorly subjective. And not a very successful circlejerk. The suits are futuristic sure, but the Assault Rifle not so much as it seems to stick to the modern day arcades. I was not looking out to make the reload mechanic the same across all weapons either. In my opinion the LR and SR should have energy crystals that simply are destroyed when heated up to much over time across a match, and then has to be replaced like a magazine. And its energy crystals should last way longer than just the "ammo" it has in its current state magazine which just feels like reloading any other machinegun. More type of weapon mods would be much welcomed. Different types of ammo, and of course modifications. Scopes and ammotype should have its own shelf at the marketplace some day in the future.
Krom Ganesh Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 545	Posted - 2013.11.04 01:04:00 - [62] - Quote Do we have to lose the bullets? I pulled that new magazine out from somewhere, so why can't I put the used one in its place? Then perhaps I can select an option on the weapon wheel to redistribute them to a single magazine.
Templar 514 Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 26	Posted - 2013.11.04 01:41:00 - [63] - Quote Jungian wrote: snipped irrelevant insults Look, I've been quite civil in this discussion, so I'd appreciate it if you would extend the same courtesy to me. Jungian wrote: I was not looking out to make the reload mechanic the same across all weapons either. In my opinion the LR and SR should have energy crystals that simply are destroyed when heated up to much over time across a match, and then has to be replaced like a magazine. And its energy crystals should last way longer than just the "ammo" it has in its current state magazine which just feels like reloading any other machinegun. More type of weapon mods would be much welcomed. Different types of ammo, and of course modifications. Scopes and ammotype should have its own shelf at the marketplace some day in the future. The main issue is that the system we have now works, and the kind of mechanics you're suggesting would have been better put forth in closed beta. That being said, I think that this is something that, if you are deadset on the devs at least considering it, you should instead just bring it up again in ~6-12 months. There's simply too much core content missing right now for the developers to, at least IMO, waste time changing a perfectly functional mechanic, into something that most players will generall find occasionally annoying, with some finding it to be horrifically penalizing to their chosen playstyle. This being said, I've always felt that reloading the LR was plenty futuristic- especially considering it's the only 'rifle' to have a 100 'round' munition supply, which, IMO, is intended to represent a granular percentage of energy storage. Krom Ganesh wrote: Do we have to lose the bullets? I pulled that new magazine out from somewhere, so why can't I put the used one in its place? Then perhaps I can select an option on the weapon wheel to redistribute them to a single magazine. The main issue I would take with such a system is that ammunition management of that nature, even if it takes less than a second, is still kind of jarring and, IMO, would be generally 'unfun'. Right now ammo management is simple and streamlined, which, IMO, suits the kind of game that DUST is quite well. Something analogous to what you're proposing has been successfully used in the ArmA series for quite a while now; however, the ArmA series has never been a particularly large and successful franchise the likes of Battlefield or Halo (or that fishy-sounding game). I do think that the current mechanic we have is more suited to the target audience that CCP wants to tap into- players of games like Battlefield and Halo (and maybe, to a lesser degree, the fans of that fishy-sounding game).
Talos Vagheitan 129	Posted - 2013.11.04 03:52:00 - [64] - Quote Ulysses Knapse wrote: Apparently, I have to be clearer with my arguments. For this I shall use a "Pro/Con List" Pros: +More similar to real life (arguably, though I'm not even sure if this is a pro or not) Cons: -Habitual reloaders will be pissed as all hell -Snipers will be pissed as all hell -Forge Gunners will be pissed as all hell -Laser Riflemen will be pissed as all hell -Swarm Launchmen(?) will be pissed as all hell Actually, I think I'm going to stop there. You can see where I'm going, right? If you haven't noticed by now, in this game, if you want to kill someone, you'll definitely want a full clip ready. If you want to kill multiple people, you'll need a full clip ready, if not more. Some people even go dual SMG just because one clip just isn't enough for their purposes. You understand, right? When is the last time you didn't reload your Laser Rifle at half a clip? How about your Mass Driver? Sniper Rifle? Scrambler Pistol? This isn't ARMA, or Battlefield 4. It's not even close. In short, things would be less easy. Realistically, re-loading is a tactical choice. Do you really want to pop out a clip which is half full of ammo out of your gun? Or can you survive your next situation with half a clip? It's a matter of preference really, realistic re-loading would add depth to the game, but possibly make the game less friendly for casual gamers. Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing realistic reloading in Dust, especially if Nanohives refilled your old clips first, before adding new clips. It would add another skill factor to the game. Welcome to the roughnecks.... RICO'S ROUGHNECKS!
Ulysses Knapse duna corp 569	Posted - 2013.11.04 10:15:00 - [65] - Quote Jungian wrote: Hah Im being told by 2 people its a bad idea. That will truly make me change my mind! Great logic there, still majorly subjective. Oh come on, now you're not even trying to rebut our arguments. It seems no amount of logic is going to get through to you, so I'm going to stop trying. I doubt CCP will ever implement such an asinine system, but if they do, when you realize how horrible it is, be happy to blame yourself. I'm sure everyone else will, too. Humanity is the personification of change.
Jungian Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 241	Posted - 2013.11.04 14:52:00 - [66] - Quote Talos Vagheitan wrote: realistic re-loading would add depth to the game, but possibly make the game less friendly for casual gamers. Exactly. That is the real reason why those 2 casuals keep trying to TELL me its a bad idea.
Mobius Wyvern Guardian Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY 3792	Posted - 2013.11.04 15:29:00 - [67] - Quote Jungian wrote: Talos Vagheitan wrote: realistic re-loading would add depth to the game, but possibly make the game less friendly for casual gamers. Exactly. That is the real reason why those 2 casuals keep trying to TELL me its a bad idea. QFT. Effectively, you're not even talking about some big game-changing adjustment. It would just make reloading a choice. Do you want to reload early and waste ammo, or use the full magazine and risk getting caught out in the middle of a firefight? Amidst the blue skies A link from past to future The sheltering wings of the protector
Jungian Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 241	Posted - 2013.11.04 15:56:00 - [68] - Quote Templar 514 wrote: I do think that the current mechanic we have is more suited to the target audience that CCP wants to tap into- players of games like Battlefield and Halo (and maybe, to a lesser degree, the fans of that fishy-sounding game). And this argument speaks volumes from someone who truly dont understand what CCP are trying to do with DUST. If they get Battlefield and COD and Halo players into DUST, DUST will have to basically fail in the eyes of CCP's roadmap for 10 years ahead. I believe they want an audience that are tired of those generic shooters and want something truly bigger and more evolving. And in 10 years I sure hope DUST is near achieving that, and hopefully has not become what you are expecting.
CLONE117 Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 448	Posted - 2013.11.04 16:00:00 - [69] - Quote lets see how many times have i been caught out in the open with no ammo?. to many times to count. this would make it worse. who here hates having no ammo? who here has ever ran out of ammo and been forced to run up and try to hit ppl to death?. ive had to do this too many times already because ppl were too greedy with their own nanohives. this would ruin alot of stuff. we would need to make the small blaster turret a light weapon to compensate for it. ______________________________________________________________________________________ there is a massive lack of logic here. yet we seem to have an abundance of stupidity.
CLONE117 Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 448	Posted - 2013.11.04 16:04:00 - [70] - Quote dusts gameplay currently is similar to that of many other games. but what might make the game better than our boring generic shooter is pve. a pve better than all the others. dust right now is more "fun" than those boring generic shooters anyways.

Jungian Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 241	Posted - 2013.11.04 16:20:00 - [71] - Quote CLONE117 wrote: dust right now is more "fun" than those boring generic shooters anyways. But that is just an opinion me and only a few other thousands DUST players share. If CCP wants millions to play DUST, they might have to go more generic. Would that make it less fun? Not sure. But I'm buying COD: Ghosts this year, and I almost feel shame hah. But as you mention PVE, that is exactly why I am getting COD: Ghosts: Its 4 player coop Alien survivor mode looks excellent.
CLONE117 Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 448	Posted - 2013.11.04 16:32:00 - [72] - Quote alien survivor mode?. hmm sounds alot like halos firefight. blackops zombies mode. gears of wars horde mode. if all they can do is make remakes of modes where all u do is fight a relentless wave of enemies till u die its not good. its boring. because it has been redone over and over so many times. there is no winning in most of these modes. as it is designed as an insta loss scenario. i have no sole interest in the always boring multiplayer of the next games of the series. im more interested in the campaign than anything else. right now i feel the 4player coop only modes are boring. i would like to player a pve coop mode with a team of more than 4 players. maybe 20 players. and then face a mass amount of enemies afterwards and making it objective based instead another remade/boring survival mode. dust feels like the only game a player could keep coming back to after those several rage quits. the game still has much potential of becoming great. as its not finished yet.
Ulysses Knapse duna corp 571	Posted - 2013.11.04 17:02:00 - [73] - Quote Jungian wrote: Talos Vagheitan wrote: realistic re-loading would add depth to the game, but possibly make the game less friendly for casual gamers. Exactly. That is the real reason why those 2 casuals keep trying to TELL me its a bad idea. Oh, shut up. Firstly, it's not true. Secondly, ad hominem is something the weak use. Humanity is the personification of change.
Roy Ventus Foxhound Corporation General Tso's Alliance 550	Posted - 2013.11.04 17:07:00 - [74] - Quote I'm honestly afraid of how much it will change the game...I'd say we focus on other stuff beforehand.
Templar 514 Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 27	Posted - 2013.11.04 20:56:00 - [75] - Quote Jungian wrote: Exactly. That is the real reason why those 2 casuals keep trying to TELL me its a bad idea. Ad hominem attacks do not a rebuttal make. But if you want to go there, then I can always bring up the fact that you aren't actually engaging your brain and are simply stomping your feet, screaming "I'M RIGHT AND YOU'RE WRONG AND ARE STUPID" at the top of your lungs. TBQH, I can't say that this is something I'm surprised about from a member of EoN. Jungian wrote: And this argument speaks volumes from someone who truly dont understand what CCP are trying to do with DUST. If they get Battlefield and COD and Halo players into DUST, DUST will have to basically fail in the eyes of CCP's roadmap for 10 years ahead. I believe they want an audience that are tired of those generic shooters and want something truly bigger and more evolving. And in 10 years I sure hope DUST is near achieving that, and hopefully has not become what you are expecting. The reason CCP should target the players of games like BF/Halo is because those types of games are currently the only type of shooter available to console players. That fish-game is really not something I like, and I doubt most fish-game players would enjoy DUST, but you never know. For the record, I doubt you understand what CCP wants to do with DUST. I'll admit I don't really understand either, but I think that, given that I am also an EVE player of ~2 years now, I'll enjoy it no matter what. Again, the BF/Halo playerbase is the only playerbase that really exists on consoles, because games that are similar to DUST simply don't exist on consoles presently, and will generally not for at least the next 6 months. There's also the issue in that you can in fact, be a player of BF/Halo (or games similar to them), and still be tired of them, or want to try something new.
Jungian Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 242	Posted - 2013.11.05 02:18:00 - [76] - Quote I havent said once that "I am right and you are wrong". I am looking at the mechanic objectivly and from a realistic point of view, while youre trying to TELL me I'm wrong and why it wont work from a "realism will hurt us" point of view. And I can understand that as gaming forums in general are filld with whine and opposed to change. I can understand that point of view, and thats why I might want it in the game.. Arma style reload brings more seriousness. And perhaps it would get rid of more BF4/Halo/COD oriented casual players. No offense ^ I play EVE myself, and thats also a reason why I want more seriousness on the DUST side.
Jungian Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 242	Posted - 2013.11.05 02:23:00 - [77] - Quote Roy Ventus wrote: I'm honestly afraid of how much it will change the game...I'd say we focus on other stuff beforehand. hah I can see that. Just venting the idea since Arma III has gotten me hooked.
Ku Shala Exiled Veteran Elite 642	Posted - 2013.11.05 02:34:00 - [78] - Quote when did they become bullets?
Joel II X AHPA 91	Posted - 2013.11.05 02:47:00 - [79] - Quote I thought this was an awesome idea from those games since I reload ever time I get a kill, but I don't know if it would fit with Dust. I see it happening, but don't know if CCP would go with it. We need a blue tag here.
Templar 514 Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 28	Posted - 2013.11.05 02:54:00 - [80] - Quote Jungian wrote: I havent said once that "I am right and you are wrong". I am looking at the mechanic objectivly and from a realistic point of view, while youre trying to TELL me I'm wrong and why it wont work from a "realism will hurt us" point of view. And I can understand that as gaming forums in general are filld with whine and opposed to change. I can understand that point of view, and thats why I might want it in the game.. Arma style reload brings more seriousness. And perhaps it would get rid of more BF4/Halo/COD oriented casual players. No offense ^ I play EVE myself, and thats also a reason why I want more seriousness on the DUST side. I am telling you that this is a bad idea that would hurt the game more than help it. As such, I suppose I am telling you "you are wrong", but not in the sense of "you are wrong for suggesting this idea", rather, "you are wrong to say that this is a good idea". This being said, you are still doing the equivalent of stomping up and down, screaming "YOUR OPINION IS IRRELEVANT BECAUSE (whatever reason)" at the top of your lungs. You keep saying that this is a good idea, but the problem lies in the fact that 90%+ console shooter players would probably fall under your description of "casual". I generally play DUST 3-4 times a week, for 2-3 hours. If I could play DUST more often, then I certainly would, but that thing called real life makes it rather difficult. I suspect rather strongly that I would probably be considered a "casual" player of DUST. When it comes down to it, however, I've sunk quite a bit of money into DUST; merc packs, AUR weapons/mods/suits to try out new things, and skill boosters. Before I go on, I will say that I will certainly stay with DUST; I might take breaks every so often (I did just before Uprising because of the incredible frustration of being a Heavy in Chrome.....not much has changed in that respect, actually), but I'll eventually come back. Now, a reload system that takes from ArmA wouldn't be too offensive to me. However, the main flaw I find in it is that it doesn't fit with the high-HP tracking shooter gameplay that DUST is supposed to have. Keep in mind my earlier example using some scary math to demonstrate why the initial mechanic you propose of "if you reload, you lose any ammo left in your clip" is a tremendously bad idea- that being that even the oft-quoted Prof. V Duvolle with a Cx damage mod does ~50 damage per shot, and against a tank-fit STD dropsuit with maxed passives averages ~664 EHP, which will take ~14 shots from said Duvolle to kill it. That's not considering shots that miss due to strafing/counterstrafing, or recoil/dispersion, or the Duvolle being out of its optimal range, which will also decrease damage. Given that rifle ranges are increasing in 1.7, and combat ranges in general will probably go up when playercounts per match eventually get bigger- with commensurate increase in mapsizes, this is an incredibly important thing to consider. The initial mechanic you propose doesn't fit with DUST in the slightest, for the reasons I outline above. An ArmA style mechanic doesn't really fit with DUST either, however. The main reason for this is because ArmA has never really considered itself an "FPS game", but has generally marketed itself as a "military simulator". It's still an FPS game, considering the basic functionality and purpose of the series, as well as the fact that it is in fact a game, since it's purpose is to provide entertainment. However, in ArmA you can nail someone with a single shot, with any weapon, assuming you shoot them in the face. This is impossible in DUST; due to the high-(and variable)-HP model I highly doubt that even CCP could make such a mechanic functional and interesting. TL;DR: The core issue is that ArmA can do it because it's a simulator where you can headshot anybody with a single bullet, while DUST is a high-HP tracking shooter that requires you to shoot other players a lot in comparison to even arcade shooters- the typical rifle in BF3/4 requires ~4 shots to kill in optimal range, compared to, say, an average of ~10 for a Duvolle. Jungian wrote: hah I can see that. Just venting the idea since Arma III has gotten me hooked. Not every cool mechanic belongs in every game. I could, for example, suggest that we do away with reloading entirely and just have a Quake/UT style mechanic being able to find dedicated ammo pickups on a map, as well as being able to deploy generalist ammo supplies that don't give as much ammo as a dedicated pickup. I could also suggest that we are able to pick up spare ammunition from the fallen- both friend and foe- as long as it is of the same weapon/damage type. Obviously both of these would be shot down instantly for being either incredibly stupid, immersion-breaking, or both. The first fits with high-speed arcade-style games like Quake was, while the second is immersion-breaking since I'd being able to get more ammunition for a plasma cannon from the corpse of a guy with an AR.

Jungian Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 243	Posted - 2013.11.05 06:47:00 - [81] - Quote Templar 514 wrote: I could, for example, suggest that we do away with reloading entirely and just have a Quake/UT style mechanic being able to find dedicated ammo pickups on a map, as well as being able to deploy generalist ammo supplies that don't give as much ammo as a dedicated pickup. And that is simply a really, really bad comparison to my suggestion that takes realism into count. But your suggestion will fit for DUST Arena for sure tho.
Keri Starlight Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1790	Posted - 2013.11.05 07:54:00 - [82] - Quote Please don't -Caldari Achura - One with the Universe -Tac AR Specialist "I load my gun with love instead of bullets"
Jungian Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 244	Posted - 2013.11.05 14:57:00 - [83] - Quote Keri Starlight wrote: Please don't CCP has listened once before regarding a mechanic I wished for the AR..
Nihilus Warwick Pradox One Proficiency V. 65	Posted - 2013.11.05 15:05:00 - [84] - Quote I like this idea, it expands on EvE mentality. You only have as much ammo as fits in your ship, it's a tangible, physical thing. I think this would push us into more tactical situations, and make the ammo skill more important. Couple more rounds in your rifle suddenly makes a whole lot more sense if you're not reloading every two seconds.
Jungian Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 245	Posted - 2013.11.05 16:26:00 - [85] - Quote Templar 514 wrote: Look, I'm going to say it short and simple i lol'd
Jungian Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 245	Posted - 2013.11.05 16:31:00 - [86] - Quote Lynn Beck wrote: I jut thought this whole time they had a slot in their backpack that springloads the ammo into the clip, that way you stick with maybe 3 clips the whole game. Yea I also thought about it from that angle. But fact remains the mechanic still looks and feels old for New Eden standards. I have another suggestion to modify the modern day looking reload: Perhaps a morphing (read: 3d printed by nanonites) magazine could appear in place and loaded after you throw away the empty mag? As in, the gun provides the ammo by 'futuristic' means.
Jungian Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 245	Posted - 2013.11.05 16:40:00 - [87] - Quote Nihilus Warwick wrote: I like this idea, it expands on EvE mentality. You only have as much ammo as fits in your ship, it's a tangible, physical thing. I think this would push us into more tactical situations, and make the ammo skill more important. Couple more rounds in your rifle suddenly makes a whole lot more sense if you're not reloading every two seconds. Absolutely spoken like a true New Eden Capsuleer. Hopefully more Mercenaries too will have that mentality.
Ulysses Knapse duna corp 631	Posted - 2013.11.25 04:41:00 - [88] - Quote Jungian wrote: Nihilus Warwick wrote: I like this idea, it expands on EvE mentality. You only have as much ammo as fits in your ship, it's a tangible, physical thing. I think this would push us into more tactical situations, and make the ammo skill more important. Couple more rounds in your rifle suddenly makes a whole lot more sense if you're not reloading every two seconds. Absolutely spoken like a true New Eden Capsuleer. Hopefully more Mercenaries too will have that mentality. I've played EVE for years, and I don't speak like a true capsuleer? Screw that. Also, no, it absolutely does not expand on EVE mentality. Ammo is painfully easy to manage in EVE. Humanity is the personification of change.
Lanius Pulvis Bojo's School of the Trades 70	Posted - 2013.11.25 13:48:00 - [89] - Quote Although this is a good mechanic for games without nano-technology, in DUST if you put the used mag back in your ammo supply the nanites could just refill the remainder of the mag much like a nanohive. A more reasonable approach in this game would be to make magazines smaller for some weapons, no one needs 80 rounds in a mag. Not new, just new to you.
Draco Cerberus Hell's Gate Inc 533	Posted - 2013.11.25 16:38:00 - [90] - Quote Can I trade in my mini clips then for a big J Banana Clip with more ammo? *One Universe...with friendly fire and Open World Game Play for all!*

Reno Pechieu Algintal Core Gallente Federation 27	Posted - 2013.11.25 16:50:00 - [91] - Quote IGÇÖm for this, making people not shot, reload, shot, reload all the time. But rather make them rely on teamwork to provide them support when they fear they might go low in the middle of a firefight. My only concern is if realism is the key, then being able to load clips should also be possible. Perhaps by holding the reload-button instead of tapping it. The two secrets to be a good sadist: 1) Don't tell them everything you planned.
Negris Albedo Nuevo Atlas Corporation 35	Posted - 2013.11.26 00:59:00 - [92] - Quote Bad idea. Reloading is perfectly fine the way it is. It performs its intended purpose and should not be changed.
Samael Artico Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 1	Posted - 2013.11.26 01:03:00 - [93] - Quote No. Just, no. You want to make ammunition more tactically important? Have less ammunition.
Ulysses Knapse duna corp 636	Posted - 2013.11.26 01:05:00 - [94] - Quote Negris Albedo wrote: Bad idea. Reloading is perfectly fine the way it is. It performs its intended purpose and should not be changed. Absolutely spoken like a true New Eden Mercenary! Kudos. Humanity is the personification of change.
Jungian Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 261	Posted - 2013.11.26 15:26:00 - [95] - Quote Samael Artico wrote: No. Just, no. You want to make ammunition more tactically important? Have less ammunition. No. To balance less ammo some Nanohive spam is all that is needed.
Admonishment The Enclave Syndicate Dark Taboo 29	Posted - 2013.11.29 05:30:00 - [96] - Quote Doesn't make sense as to why you would lose the ammo for doing a tactical reload. When I did serve and had to reload I am pretty sure I didn't lose my rounds from it lol unless you drop the mag and run off. Normally when someone does a tactical reload they place their semi used mag in another reachable slot so they don't confuse it will the full mags, they still have the same amount of rounds as before. You should still have those remaining rounds available. I get that you are trying to add another mechanic to the game but that is just penalizing people for making sure they have a full mag before the next encounter. Level 5 Proficiency in Tupperware handling.
Jungian Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 261	Posted - 2013.11.30 19:30:00 - [97] - Quote Admonishment wrote: Doesn't make sense as to why you would lose the ammo for doing a tactical reload. When I did serve and had to reload I am pretty sure I didn't lose my rounds from it lol unless you drop the mag and run off. Normally when someone does a tactical reload they place their semi used mag in another reachable slot so they don't confuse it will the full mags, they still have the same amount of rounds as before. You should still have those remaining rounds available. I get that you are trying to add another mechanic to the game but that is just penalizing people for making sure they have a full mag before the next encounter. "Drop the mag and run off" is what all shooter games reload mechanics have, except for a very few. I just want DUST to get as far away from the generic shooters. At least show a new magazine being printed into the gun, instead of just placing a new one into the gun like it was still 1990. New Eden is 20,000 years into the future and soldiers still reload magazines the same way? It doesnt exactly help with immersion.
Sole Fenychs Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 14	Posted - 2013.12.26 18:16:00 - [98] - Quote Let's look at this rationally: What does the current reload mechanic do? - You don't lose bullets when reloading - Reloading is the same on all weapons - You ALWAYS reload when you have downtime - You can cancel the reload animation and continue to shoot with the rest of your half empty magazine In essence, the reload feature in its current condition is absolutely pointless. You can just as easily replace it with a cooldown timer that starts whenever you aren't shooting and/or running. When the cooldown ends, your weapon is reloaded. What's the difference? Easy, it frees a button (and button space is precious on controllers), is less intrusive than the current animation and works exactly the same in terms of mechanics. You will never NOT reload when you get the chance in the current system, so why do you need to press a button at all? I thought DUST is related to EVE, the MMO for grown-ups and not to Metin 2, where combat consists of hammering the space bar. And that's why I say that CCP should either go for the ammo wasting system or the cooldown system. The former would fit the spirit of the universe and allow different kinds of guns to work in vastly different ways, while the latter would differentiate Dust from other games by removing artifical depth.


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