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Raising Reload awareness.

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Jungian Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 241	Posted - 2013.11.04 00:56:00 - [61] - Quote Hah Im being told by 2 people its a bad idea. That will truly make me change my mind! Great logic there, still majorly subjective. And not a very successful circlejerk. The suits are futuristic sure, but the Assault Rifle not so much as it seems to stick to the modern day arcades. I was not looking out to make the reload mechanic the same across all weapons either. In my opinion the LR and SR should have energy crystals that simply are destroyed when heated up to much over time across a match, and then has to be replaced like a magazine. And its energy crystals should last way longer than just the "ammo" it has in its current state magazine which just feels like reloading any other machinegun. More type of weapon mods would be much welcomed. Different types of ammo, and of course modifications. Scopes and ammotype should have its own shelf at the marketplace some day in the future.
Krom Ganesh Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 545	Posted - 2013.11.04 01:04:00 - [62] - Quote Do we have to lose the bullets? I pulled that new magazine out from somewhere, so why can't I put the used one in its place? Then perhaps I can select an option on the weapon wheel to redistribute them to a single magazine.
Templar 514 Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 26	Posted - 2013.11.04 01:41:00 - [63] - Quote Jungian wrote: snipped irrelevant insults Look, I've been quite civil in this discussion, so I'd appreciate it if you would extend the same courtesy to me. Jungian wrote: I was not looking out to make the reload mechanic the same across all weapons either. In my opinion the LR and SR should have energy crystals that simply are destroyed when heated up to much over time across a match, and then has to be replaced like a magazine. And its energy crystals should last way longer than just the "ammo" it has in its current state magazine which just feels like reloading any other machinegun. More type of weapon mods would be much welcomed. Different types of ammo, and of course modifications. Scopes and ammotype should have its own shelf at the marketplace some day in the future. The main issue is that the system we have now works, and the kind of mechanics you're suggesting would have been better put forth in closed beta. That being said, I think that this is something that, if you are deadset on the devs at least considering it, you should instead just bring it up again in ~6-12 months. There's simply too much core content missing right now for the developers to, at least IMO, waste time changing a perfectly functional mechanic, into something that most players will generall find occasionally annoying, with some finding it to be horrifically penalizing to their chosen playstyle. This being said, I've always felt that reloading the LR was plenty futuristic- especially considering it's the only 'rifle' to have a 100 'round' munition supply, which, IMO, is intended to represent a granular percentage of energy storage. Krom Ganesh wrote: Do we have to lose the bullets? I pulled that new magazine out from somewhere, so why can't I put the used one in its place? Then perhaps I can select an option on the weapon wheel to redistribute them to a single magazine. The main issue I would take with such a system is that ammunition management of that nature, even if it takes less than a second, is still kind of jarring and, IMO, would be generally 'unfun'. Right now ammo management is simple and streamlined, which, IMO, suits the kind of game that DUST is quite well. Something analogous to what you're proposing has been successfully used in the ArmA series for quite a while now; however, the ArmA series has never been a particularly large and successful franchise the likes of Battlefield or Halo (or that fishy-sounding game). I do think that the current mechanic we have is more suited to the target audience that CCP wants to tap into- players of games like Battlefield and Halo (and maybe, to a lesser degree, the fans of that fishy-sounding game).
Talos Vagheitan 129	Posted - 2013.11.04 03:52:00 - [64] - Quote Ulysses Knapse wrote: Apparently, I have to be clearer with my arguments. For this I shall use a "Pro/Con List" Pros: +More similar to real life (arguably, though I'm not even sure if this is a pro or not) Cons: -Habitual reloaders will be pissed as all hell -Snipers will be pissed as all hell -Forge Gunners will be pissed as all hell -Laser Riflemen will be pissed as all hell -Swarm Launchmen(?) will be pissed as all hell Actually, I think I'm going to stop there. You can see where I'm going, right? If you haven't noticed by now, in this game, if you want to kill someone, you'll definitely want a full clip ready. If you want to kill multiple people, you'll need a full clip ready, if not more. Some people even go dual SMG just because one clip just isn't enough for their purposes. You understand, right? When is the last time you didn't reload your Laser Rifle at half a clip? How about your Mass Driver? Sniper Rifle? Scrambler Pistol? This isn't ARMA, or Battlefield 4. It's not even close. In short, things would be less easy. Realistically, re-loading is a tactical choice. Do you really want to pop out a clip which is half full of ammo out of your gun? Or can you survive your next situation with half a clip? It's a matter of preference really, realistic re-loading would add depth to the game, but possibly make the game less friendly for casual gamers. Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing realistic reloading in Dust, especially if Nanohives refilled your old clips first, before adding new clips. It would add another skill factor to the game. Welcome to the roughnecks.... RICO'S ROUGHNECKS!
Ulysses Knapse duna corp 569	Posted - 2013.11.04 10:15:00 - [65] - Quote Jungian wrote: Hah Im being told by 2 people its a bad idea. That will truly make me change my mind! Great logic there, still majorly subjective. Oh come on, now you're not even trying to rebut our arguments. It seems no amount of logic is going to get through to you, so I'm going to stop trying. I doubt CCP will ever implement such an asinine system, but if they do, when you realize how horrible it is, be happy to blame yourself. I'm sure everyone else will, too. Humanity is the personification of change.
Jungian Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 241	Posted - 2013.11.04 14:52:00 - [66] - Quote Talos Vagheitan wrote: realistic re-loading would add depth to the game, but possibly make the game less friendly for casual gamers. Exactly. That is the real reason why those 2 casuals keep trying to TELL me its a bad idea.
Mobius Wyvern Guardian Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY 3792	Posted - 2013.11.04 15:29:00 - [67] - Quote Jungian wrote: Talos Vagheitan wrote: realistic re-loading would add depth to the game, but possibly make the game less friendly for casual gamers. Exactly. That is the real reason why those 2 casuals keep trying to TELL me its a bad idea. QFT. Effectively, you're not even talking about some big game-changing adjustment. It would just make reloading a choice. Do you want to reload early and waste ammo, or use the full magazine and risk getting caught out in the middle of a firefight? Amidst the blue skies A link from past to future The sheltering wings of the protector
Jungian Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 241	Posted - 2013.11.04 15:56:00 - [68] - Quote Templar 514 wrote: I do think that the current mechanic we have is more suited to the target audience that CCP wants to tap into- players of games like Battlefield and Halo (and maybe, to a lesser degree, the fans of that fishy-sounding game). And this argument speaks volumes from someone who truly dont understand what CCP are trying to do with DUST. If they get Battlefield and COD and Halo players into DUST, DUST will have to basically fail in the eyes of CCP's roadmap for 10 years ahead. I believe they want an audience that are tired of those generic shooters and want something truly bigger and more evolving. And in 10 years I sure hope DUST is near achieving that, and hopefully has not become what you are expecting.
CLONE117 Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 448	Posted - 2013.11.04 16:00:00 - [69] - Quote lets see how many times have i been caught out in the open with no ammo?. to many times to count. this would make it worse. who here hates having no ammo? who here has ever ran out of ammo and been forced to run up and try to hit ppl to death?. ive had to do this too many times already because ppl were too greedy with their own nanohives. this would ruin alot of stuff. we would need to make the small blaster turret a light weapon to compensate for it. ______________________________________________________________________________________ there is a massive lack of logic here. yet we seem to have an abundance of stupidity.
CLONE117 Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 448	Posted - 2013.11.04 16:04:00 - [70] - Quote dusts gameplay currently is similar to that of many other games. but what might make the game better than our boring generic shooter is pve. a pve better than all the others. dust right now is more "fun" than those boring generic shooters anyways.

Jungian Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 241	Posted - 2013.11.04 16:20:00 - [71] - Quote CLONE117 wrote: dust right now is more "fun" than those boring generic shooters anyways. But that is just an opinion me and only a few other thousands DUST players share. If CCP wants millions to play DUST, they might have to go more generic. Would that make it less fun? Not sure. But I'm buying COD: Ghosts this year, and I almost feel shame hah. But as you mention PVE, that is exactly why I am getting COD: Ghosts: Its 4 player coop Alien survivor mode looks excellent.
CLONE117 Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 448	Posted - 2013.11.04 16:32:00 - [72] - Quote alien survivor mode?. hmm sounds alot like halos firefight. blackops zombies mode. gears of wars horde mode. if all they can do is make remakes of modes where all u do is fight a relentless wave of enemies till u die its not good. its boring. because it has been redone over and over so many times. there is no winning in most of these modes. as it is designed as an insta loss scenario. i have no sole interest in the always boring multiplayer of the next games of the series. im more interested in the campaign than anything else. right now i feel the 4player coop only modes are boring. i would like to player a pve coop mode with a team of more than 4 players. maybe 20 players. and then face a mass amount of enemies afterwards and making it objective based instead another remade/boring survival mode. dust feels like the only game a player could keep coming back to after those several rage quits. the game still has much potential of becoming great. as its not finished yet.
Ulysses Knapse duna corp 571	Posted - 2013.11.04 17:02:00 - [73] - Quote Jungian wrote: Talos Vagheitan wrote: realistic re-loading would add depth to the game, but possibly make the game less friendly for casual gamers. Exactly. That is the real reason why those 2 casuals keep trying to TELL me its a bad idea. Oh, shut up. Firstly, it's not true. Secondly, ad hominem is something the weak use. Humanity is the personification of change.
Roy Ventus Foxhound Corporation General Tso's Alliance 550	Posted - 2013.11.04 17:07:00 - [74] - Quote I'm honestly afraid of how much it will change the game...I'd say we focus on other stuff beforehand.
Templar 514 Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 27	Posted - 2013.11.04 20:56:00 - [75] - Quote Jungian wrote: Exactly. That is the real reason why those 2 casuals keep trying to TELL me its a bad idea. Ad hominem attacks do not a rebuttal make. But if you want to go there, then I can always bring up the fact that you aren't actually engaging your brain and are simply stomping your feet, screaming "I'M RIGHT AND YOU'RE WRONG AND ARE STUPID" at the top of your lungs. TBQH, I can't say that this is something I'm surprised about from a member of EoN. Jungian wrote: And this argument speaks volumes from someone who truly dont understand what CCP are trying to do with DUST. If they get Battlefield and COD and Halo players into DUST, DUST will have to basically fail in the eyes of CCP's roadmap for 10 years ahead. I believe they want an audience that are tired of those generic shooters and want something truly bigger and more evolving. And in 10 years I sure hope DUST is near achieving that, and hopefully has not become what you are expecting. The reason CCP should target the players of games like BF/Halo is because those types of games are currently the only type of shooter available to console players. That fish-game is really not something I like, and I doubt most fish-game players would enjoy DUST, but you never know. For the record, I doubt you understand what CCP wants to do with DUST. I'll admit I don't really understand either, but I think that, given that I am also an EVE player of ~2 years now, I'll enjoy it no matter what. Again, the BF/Halo playerbase is the only playerbase that really exists on consoles, because games that are similar to DUST simply don't exist on consoles presently, and will generally not for at least the next 6 months. There's also the issue in that you can in fact, be a player of BF/Halo (or games similar to them), and still be tired of them, or want to try something new.
Jungian Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 242	Posted - 2013.11.05 02:18:00 - [76] - Quote I havent said once that "I am right and you are wrong". I am looking at the mechanic objectivly and from a realistic point of view, while youre trying to TELL me I'm wrong and why it wont work from a "realism will hurt us" point of view. And I can understand that as gaming forums in general are filld with whine and opposed to change. I can understand that point of view, and thats why I might want it in the game.. Arma style reload brings more seriousness. And perhaps it would get rid of more BF4/Halo/COD oriented casual players. No offense ^ I play EVE myself, and thats also a reason why I want more seriousness on the DUST side.
Jungian Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 242	Posted - 2013.11.05 02:23:00 - [77] - Quote Roy Ventus wrote: I'm honestly afraid of how much it will change the game...I'd say we focus on other stuff beforehand. hah I can see that. Just venting the idea since Arma III has gotten me hooked.
Ku Shala Exiled Veteran Elite 642	Posted - 2013.11.05 02:34:00 - [78] - Quote when did they become bullets?
Joel II X AHPA 91	Posted - 2013.11.05 02:47:00 - [79] - Quote I thought this was an awesome idea from those games since I reload ever time I get a kill, but I don't know if it would fit with Dust. I see it happening, but don't know if CCP would go with it. We need a blue tag here.
Templar 514 Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 28	Posted - 2013.11.05 02:54:00 - [80] - Quote Jungian wrote: I havent said once that "I am right and you are wrong". I am looking at the mechanic objectivly and from a realistic point of view, while youre trying to TELL me I'm wrong and why it wont work from a "realism will hurt us" point of view. And I can understand that as gaming forums in general are filld with whine and opposed to change. I can understand that point of view, and thats why I might want it in the game.. Arma style reload brings more seriousness. And perhaps it would get rid of more BF4/Halo/COD oriented casual players. No offense ^ I play EVE myself, and thats also a reason why I want more seriousness on the DUST side. I am telling you that this is a bad idea that would hurt the game more than help it. As such, I suppose I am telling you "you are wrong", but not in the sense of "you are wrong for suggesting this idea", rather, "you are wrong to say that this is a good idea". This being said, you are still doing the equivalent of stomping up and down, screaming "YOUR OPINION IS IRRELEVANT BECAUSE (whatever reason)" at the top of your lungs. You keep saying that this is a good idea, but the problem lies in the fact that 90%+ console shooter players would probably fall under your description of "casual". I generally play DUST 3-4 times a week, for 2-3 hours. If I could play DUST more often, then I certainly would, but that thing called real life makes it rather difficult. I suspect rather strongly that I would probably be considered a "casual" player of DUST. When it comes down to it, however, I've sunk quite a bit of money into DUST; merc packs, AUR weapons/mods/suits to try out new things, and skill boosters. Before I go on, I will say that I will certainly stay with DUST; I might take breaks every so often (I did just before Uprising because of the incredible frustration of being a Heavy in Chrome.....not much has changed in that respect, actually), but I'll eventually come back. Now, a reload system that takes from ArmA wouldn't be too offensive to me. However, the main flaw I find in it is that it doesn't fit with the high-HP tracking shooter gameplay that DUST is supposed to have. Keep in mind my earlier example using some scary math to demonstrate why the initial mechanic you propose of "if you reload, you lose any ammo left in your clip" is a tremendously bad idea- that being that even the oft-quoted Prof. V Duvolle with a Cx damage mod does ~50 damage per shot, and against a tank-fit STD dropsuit with maxed passives averages ~664 EHP, which will take ~14 shots from said Duvolle to kill it. That's not considering shots that miss due to strafing/counterstrafing, or recoil/dispersion, or the Duvolle being out of its optimal range, which will also decrease damage. Given that rifle ranges are increasing in 1.7, and combat ranges in general will probably go up when playercounts per match eventually get bigger- with commensurate increase in mapsizes, this is an incredibly important thing to consider. The initial mechanic you propose doesn't fit with DUST in the slightest, for the reasons I outline above. An ArmA style mechanic doesn't really fit with DUST either, however. The main reason for this is because ArmA has never really considered itself an "FPS game", but has generally marketed itself as a "military simulator". It's still an FPS game, considering the basic functionality and purpose of the series, as well as the fact that it is in fact a game, since it's purpose is to provide entertainment. However, in ArmA you can nail someone with a single shot, with any weapon, assuming you shoot them in the face. This is impossible in DUST; due to the high-(and variable)-HP model I highly doubt that even CCP could make such a mechanic functional and interesting. TL;DR: The core issue is that ArmA can do it because it's a simulator where you can headshot anybody with a single bullet, while DUST is a high-HP tracking shooter that requires you to shoot other players a lot in comparison to even arcade shooters- the typical rifle in BF3/4 requires ~4 shots to kill in optimal range, compared to, say, an average of ~10 for a Duvolle. Jungian wrote: hah I can see that. Just venting the idea since Arma III has gotten me hooked. Not every cool mechanic belongs in every game. I could, for example, suggest that we do away with reloading entirely and just have a Quake/UT style mechanic being able to find dedicated ammo pickups on a map, as well as being able to deploy generalist ammo supplies that don't give as much ammo as a dedicated pickup. I could also suggest that we are able to pick up spare ammunition from the fallen- both friend and foe- as long as it is of the same weapon/damage type. Obviously both of these would be shot down instantly for being either incredibly stupid, immersion-breaking, or both. The first fits with high-speed arcade-style games like Quake was, while the second is immersion-breaking since I'd being able to get more ammunition for a plasma cannon from the corpse of a guy with an AR.

Jungian Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 243	Posted - 2013.11.05 06:47:00 - [81] - Quote Templar 514 wrote: I could, for example, suggest that we do away with reloading entirely and just have a Quake/UT style mechanic being able to find dedicated ammo pickups on a map, as well as being able to deploy generalist ammo supplies that don't give as much ammo as a dedicated pickup. And that is simply a really, really bad comparison to my suggestion that takes realism into count. But your suggestion will fit for DUST Arena for sure tho.
Keri Starlight Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1790	Posted - 2013.11.05 07:54:00 - [82] - Quote Please don't -Caldari Achura - One with the Universe -Tac AR Specialist "I load my gun with love instead of bullets"
Jungian Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 244	Posted - 2013.11.05 14:57:00 - [83] - Quote Keri Starlight wrote: Please don't CCP has listened once before regarding a mechanic I wished for the AR..
Nihilus Warwick Pradox One Proficiency V. 65	Posted - 2013.11.05 15:05:00 - [84] - Quote I like this idea, it expands on EvE mentality. You only have as much ammo as fits in your ship, it's a tangible, physical thing. I think this would push us into more tactical situations, and make the ammo skill more important. Couple more rounds in your rifle suddenly makes a whole lot more sense if you're not reloading every two seconds.
Jungian Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 245	Posted - 2013.11.05 16:26:00 - [85] - Quote Templar 514 wrote: Look, I'm going to say it short and simple i lol'd
Jungian Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 245	Posted - 2013.11.05 16:31:00 - [86] - Quote Lynn Beck wrote: I jut thought this whole time they had a slot in their backpack that springloads the ammo into the clip, that way you stick with maybe 3 clips the whole game. Yea I also thought about it from that angle. But fact remains the mechanic still looks and feels old for New Eden standards. I have another suggestion to modify the modern day looking reload: Perhaps a morphing (read: 3d printed by nanonites) magazine could appear in place and loaded after you throw away the empty mag? As in, the gun provides the ammo by 'futuristic' means.
Jungian Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 245	Posted - 2013.11.05 16:40:00 - [87] - Quote Nihilus Warwick wrote: I like this idea, it expands on EvE mentality. You only have as much ammo as fits in your ship, it's a tangible, physical thing. I think this would push us into more tactical situations, and make the ammo skill more important. Couple more rounds in your rifle suddenly makes a whole lot more sense if you're not reloading every two seconds. Absolutely spoken like a true New Eden Capsuleer. Hopefully more Mercenaries too will have that mentality.
Ulysses Knapse duna corp 631	Posted - 2013.11.25 04:41:00 - [88] - Quote Jungian wrote: Nihilus Warwick wrote: I like this idea, it expands on EvE mentality. You only have as much ammo as fits in your ship, it's a tangible, physical thing. I think this would push us into more tactical situations, and make the ammo skill more important. Couple more rounds in your rifle suddenly makes a whole lot more sense if you're not reloading every two seconds. Absolutely spoken like a true New Eden Capsuleer. Hopefully more Mercenaries too will have that mentality. I've played EVE for years, and I don't speak like a true capsuleer? Screw that. Also, no, it absolutely does not expand on EVE mentality. Ammo is painfully easy to manage in EVE. Humanity is the personification of change.
Lanius Pulvis Bojo's School of the Trades 70	Posted - 2013.11.25 13:48:00 - [89] - Quote Although this is a good mechanic for games without nano-technology, in DUST if you put the used mag back in your ammo supply the nanites could just refill the remainder of the mag much like a nanohive. A more reasonable approach in this game would be to make magazines smaller for some weapons, no one needs 80 rounds in a mag. Not new, just new to you.
Draco Cerberus Hell's Gate Inc 533	Posted - 2013.11.25 16:38:00 - [90] - Quote Can I trade in my mini clips then for a big J Banana Clip with more ammo? *One Universe...with friendly fire and Open World Game Play for all!*



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