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Void Echo
Blades of Dust
2006
   |
Posted - 2013.10.31 00:10:00 -
[91] - Quote
Needless Sacermendor wrote:Void Echo wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Wrong ... you're definition is of something that is better ... something that is superior has every property better and is in another league and cannot be beaten by.
A proto dropsuit with complex extenders n plates n proto weapons is not superior to a militia fitting ... because a militia fitting is capable of killing proto fittings.
SP and ISK do not make you superior or replace skill ... what it does do is give you an advantage ... you can extend that advantage over all aspects of your fitting, but it will NEVER make you superior as skill can still defeat you. its a giant contradiction then, theres no way this would work in real life. Congratulations on attaining forum warrior level 2.  Needless Sacermendor - I suppose if you define superior as that then yes, things should not be superior due to isk investment alone. I agree - skill should certainly allow lesser investments to defeat greater investments. It worries me that protosuits are so dominant in the infantry vs infantry area at the moment, but they can at least still be killed. Void Echo - Would you mind terribly clarifying what you think is contradicting itself? I'm a little baffled, and I would very much like to hear your feelings clearly on the matter.
whats contradicting about it is that here personal investment is present and so is personal skill... by there reasoning personal investment should not mean anything when it comes to the game.
by this standing they are saying that there is no point of me skilling into the gallente proto assault suit because according to them, the militia minmitar suit will be far more powerful because it requires no personal investment whatsoever and the gallente proto suit will be nearly worthless because it requires personal investment. basically punishing anyone attempting to put more into the game than they are.
their argument is a giant contradiction. understand?[/quote]
If you're skilling into that Gallente proto Assault suit because you have no skill or because you expect it to be unbeatable then I can tell you now, there's really no point skilling into it.
Personal skill is still present in people with low SP and so are tactical advantages ... both of which should trump your proto assault suit even if the difference is 100x the SP investment ... especially if you have no personal skill.
On the other hand, as is generally the case, someone with personal skill and tactical advantage and proto level fittings would be superior.
Is that simples enough for you ?[/quote]
the way you would have it is that a single militia suit would wipe the floor with nothing but enemy proto suits because he has personal skill, and the proto have skill but their investment is far more but they would still be cheated out of everything they had.
Closed Beta Vet
Level 2 Forum Warrior
"In my experience love doesnt exist, only cold, dark betrayal does."
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Void Echo
Blades of Dust
2006
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Posted - 2013.10.31 00:12:00 -
[92] - Quote
answer my question:
why should I put all of my personal investment and skill into tanks when a heavy who has put so little investment into his would be far more efficient? what would be the point of skilling into something if another thing could do its job better at a much lower investment requirement?
also, where would be the balance between "skill" and personal investment in this game when "skill would completely denounce logic when fighting far superior equipment?
Closed Beta Vet
Level 2 Forum Warrior
"In my experience love doesnt exist, only cold, dark betrayal does."
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Void Echo
Blades of Dust
2006
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Posted - 2013.10.31 00:15:00 -
[93] - Quote
Needless Sacermendor wrote:Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:So...
what exactly is the point of tanks, in the end?
I drive the damn things and I've not a clue.
What's their role? What are they supposed to be used for?
How can you balance them if you don't know what FOR? They're supposed to scare infantry ... they do it so well in fact that many infantry adapt and skill into AV weapons to counter them. It's a lot like when calogis were running round with massive shields and everyone quickly started carrying fluxes (cos lazers had been nerfed to oblivion). The problem is that those that decided they wanted the security of 7 inches of steel wrapped around them, suddenly realised they had no adaptation of their own since they skilled into something so specialised and conspicuous and they had no dropsuit skills to fall back on to counter what had been deployed to counter their assets.
technically that's not true, im a vet tanker with over 10 million SP in tanks yet I am adaptable and can survive outside of my tank. I also have sp into gallente assault, I make your statement invalid.
Closed Beta Vet
Level 2 Forum Warrior
"In my experience love doesnt exist, only cold, dark betrayal does."
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Needless Sacermendor
Red Fox Brigade
556
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Posted - 2013.10.31 00:27:00 -
[94] - Quote
Void ... seriously give it a rest ... you're making a fool of yourself arguing points people haven't even made.
Come back when you've learnt a little reading comprehension.
You're hung up on my quoting of the Heavy dropsuit description in game which says it should be able to stand toe to toe with the heaviest of vehicles (or something similar) ... when that statement was in reply to someone saying that light AV should only be useful against light vehicles ... a dumb statement since we only have LAVs currently that are light vehicles. I said fine, so long as Heavies fit their description.
Now take a minute to read through ANYTHING else I've written in this thread ... and tell me again, even quote me saying anything about unskilled low sp people being at an advantage against skilled proto users UNLESS they have a tactical advantage, like you're on your own in a bunker calling in an orbital or looking at the map and they walk in on you.
Surely even you can manage to comprehend that from everything I've posted here. |
Needless Sacermendor
Red Fox Brigade
556
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Posted - 2013.10.31 00:29:00 -
[95] - Quote
Void Echo wrote:technically that's not true, im a vet tanker with over 10 million SP in tanks yet I am adaptable and can survive outside of my tank. I also have sp into gallente assault, I make your statement invalid.
Yes ... you are special ... you make a lot of statements invalid ... particularly the one about 'Common' sense. |
Void Echo
Blades of Dust
2006
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Posted - 2013.10.31 00:31:00 -
[96] - Quote
Needless Sacermendor wrote:Void ... seriously give it a rest ... you're making a fool of yourself arguing points people haven't even made.
Come back when you've learnt a little reading comprehension.
You're hung up on my quoting of the Heavy dropsuit description in game which says it should be able to stand toe to toe with the heaviest of vehicles (or something similar) ... when that statement was in reply to someone saying that light AV should only be useful against light vehicles ... a dumb statement since we only have LAVs currently that are light vehicles. I said fine, so long as Heavies fit their description.
Now take a minute to read through ANYTHING else I've written in this thread ... and tell me again, even quote me saying anything about unskilled low sp people being at an advantage against skilled proto users UNLESS they have a tactical advantage, like you're on your own in a bunker calling in an orbital or looking at the map and they walk in on you.
Surely even you can manage to comprehend that from everything I've posted here.
why don't you just answer my question.
Closed Beta Vet
Level 2 Forum Warrior
"In my experience love doesnt exist, only cold, dark betrayal does."
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Pocket Rocket Girl
Psygod9
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
72
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Posted - 2013.10.31 00:31:00 -
[97] - Quote
Void Echo wrote:answer my question:
why should I put all of my personal investment and skill into tanks when a heavy who has put so little investment into his would be far more efficient? what would be the point of skilling into something if another thing could do its job better at a much lower investment requirement?
also, where would be the balance between "skill" and personal investment in this game when "skill would completely denounce logic when fighting far superior equipment?
Because it is a personal choice like the people who choose to spend Sp into scouts,as well that choice apeals to your personal play style. i could have chosen to spend into a caldari proto with stacking shields and armor and a duvolle at a lower investment but instead went for minmatar logi hack build instead because it appealed to my and what i felt i would be better at.
i do not understand your second question |
Void Echo
Blades of Dust
2006
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Posted - 2013.10.31 00:36:00 -
[98] - Quote
Pocket Rocket Girl wrote:Void Echo wrote:answer my question:
why should I put all of my personal investment and skill into tanks when a heavy who has put so little investment into his would be far more efficient? what would be the point of skilling into something if another thing could do its job better at a much lower investment requirement?
also, where would be the balance between "skill" and personal investment in this game when "skill would completely denounce logic when fighting far superior equipment? Because it is a personal choice like the people who choose to spend Sp into scouts,as well that choice apeals to your personal play style. i could have chosen to spend into a caldari proto with stacking shields and armor and a duvolle at a lower investment but instead went for minmatar logi hack build instead because it appealed to my and what i felt i would be better at. i do not understand your second question
my seconds question is pretty straight forward.
Closed Beta Vet
Level 2 Forum Warrior
"In my experience love doesnt exist, only cold, dark betrayal does."
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Meeko Fent
expert intervention
Caldari State
1345
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Posted - 2013.10.31 00:38:00 -
[99] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Void Echo wrote:Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:So...
what exactly is the point of tanks, in the end?
I drive the damn things and I've not a clue.
What's their role? What are they supposed to be used for?
How can you balance them if you don't know what FOR? according to the people currently posting, there is no point because suits should be more powerful than an entire planet, so tanks are a giant contradiction because they require tremendous personal investment for absolutely nothing.  I wish it wouldn't come to this every time there's a discussion about this topic. No. For the fourth time - Investment should give an advantage, but it shouldn't mean that you automatically win against anything of lower investment.
And tanks shouldn't.
However, that lower investment shouldn't kill the higher investment as fast as an investment of equal caliber.
I think these new changes express that quite nicely.
Tanks die slower, tanks can only lock a place down for so long before a run to a supply depot is needed.
Looks fine to me.
People just need to stop crying when nothing is really looking OP/UP right now.
Meeko's Novelty Shop Opening Soon!
We (will)sell all the novelty items you desire! Really!
King of Uncertainty.
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Meeko Fent
expert intervention
Caldari State
1345
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Posted - 2013.10.31 00:41:00 -
[100] - Quote
Needless Sacermendor wrote:Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:So...
what exactly is the point of tanks, in the end?
I drive the damn things and I've not a clue.
What's their role? What are they supposed to be used for?
How can you balance them if you don't know what FOR? They're supposed to scare infantry ... they do it so well in fact that many infantry adapt and skill into AV weapons to counter them. It's a lot like when calogis were running round with massive shields and everyone quickly started carrying fluxes (cos lazers had been nerfed to oblivion). The problem is that those that decided they wanted the security of 7 inches of steel wrapped around them, suddenly realised they had no adaptation of their own since they skilled into something so specialised and conspicuous and they had no dropsuit skills to fall back on to counter what had been deployed to counter their assets.
Technically, tanks almost have 72 inches of steel around them.
Provided they fit a 180mm plate.
Just thought that was a cool little fun fact.
Edit-Just realized that I was thinking in cm instead of mm. Derp.
Disregard my lack of technical knowledge.
Meeko's Novelty Shop Opening Soon!
We (will)sell all the novelty items you desire! Really!
King of Uncertainty.
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Void Echo
Blades of Dust
2006
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Posted - 2013.10.31 00:42:00 -
[101] - Quote
in my opinion.
personal investment should allow you to compete, personal skill should allow you to overcome. you should not be able to have one without the other, they should be joined.
Closed Beta Vet
Level 2 Forum Warrior
"In my experience love doesnt exist, only cold, dark betrayal does."
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Specter RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
111
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Posted - 2013.10.31 00:42:00 -
[102] - Quote
Meh I'm just gonna be a ***** and adapt to this.
It's not that big of a difference whether if they change it or not. I'll enjoy the fact that the scrub FG's are gone. |
Arkena Wyrnspire
Turalyon 514
Turalyon Alliance
4471
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Posted - 2013.10.31 00:47:00 -
[103] - Quote
Void Echo wrote:answer my question:
why should I put all of my personal investment and skill into tanks when a heavy who has put so little investment into his would be far more efficient? what would be the point of skilling into something if another thing could do its job better at a much lower investment requirement?
also, where would be the balance between "skill" and personal investment in this game when "skill would completely denounce logic when fighting far superior equipment?
A heavy is not far more efficient at killing than a tank. The current state of heavies is laughable.
Your second question does not make sense.
I have a rough idea of what you're talking about though - Are you saying that if you have superior equipment you should be completely unkillable by inferior equipment?
If so, then I disagree. Strenuously. This game already has enough problems with newbie stomping without it becoming literally impossible for newbies to compete.
Level 4 Forum Warrior
Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution
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Void Echo
Blades of Dust
2006
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Posted - 2013.10.31 00:48:00 -
[104] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Void Echo wrote:answer my question:
why should I put all of my personal investment and skill into tanks when a heavy who has put so little investment into his would be far more efficient? what would be the point of skilling into something if another thing could do its job better at a much lower investment requirement?
also, where would be the balance between "skill" and personal investment in this game when "skill would completely denounce logic when fighting far superior equipment? A heavy is not far more efficient at killing than a tank. The current state of heavies is laughable. Your second question does not make sense. I have a rough idea of what you're talking about though - Are you saying that if you have superior equipment you should be completely unkillable by inferior equipment? If so, then I disagree. Strenuously. This game already has enough problems with newbie stomping without it becoming literally impossible for newbies to compete.
look at my post on this page.
if im going against a full team of proto suits in only a militia suit, should I be able to wipe the floor with them?
Closed Beta Vet
Level 2 Forum Warrior
"In my experience love doesnt exist, only cold, dark betrayal does."
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Arkena Wyrnspire
Turalyon 514
Turalyon Alliance
4472
|
Posted - 2013.10.31 00:56:00 -
[105] - Quote
Void Echo wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Void Echo wrote:answer my question:
why should I put all of my personal investment and skill into tanks when a heavy who has put so little investment into his would be far more efficient? what would be the point of skilling into something if another thing could do its job better at a much lower investment requirement?
also, where would be the balance between "skill" and personal investment in this game when "skill would completely denounce logic when fighting far superior equipment? A heavy is not far more efficient at killing than a tank. The current state of heavies is laughable. Your second question does not make sense. I have a rough idea of what you're talking about though - Are you saying that if you have superior equipment you should be completely unkillable by inferior equipment? If so, then I disagree. Strenuously. This game already has enough problems with newbie stomping without it becoming literally impossible for newbies to compete. look at my post on this page. also that was an example. and btw heavies are more efficient than tanks are money wise. if im going against a full team of proto suits in only a militia suit, should I be able to wipe the floor with them?
Oh yes, more efficient isk wise. My BPO suits are infinitely efficient, whilst we're on that subject. Perhaps you should drop everything and run for them if that's so important?
A heavy suit is not as effective at killing as a tank is, nor is it as durable. Not efficient, effective.
Part of what balances spending large amounts of isk are diminishing returns per isk. Otherwise prototype suits would be even more powerful and actually sustainable - neither of which would be good for the game. Similarly, you pay for the power of HAVs. You can ***** and whine about how you don't think you're invincible enough, but you are investing isk for more power.
That's a ridiculously loaded example. Obviously not - not only is your gear outmatched, you are also outnumbered. Even if they're complete retards you're going to get wrecked.
The examples I was giving were where skill could tip the scales, not make everything else completely irrelevant. You have to be deliberately misinterpreting me now because I honestly believe someone can't be that stupid.
I'm done. I tried to be reasonable with you. It took 6 pages, but I've realised you can't be reasoned with. Congratulations.
Level 4 Forum Warrior
Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution
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Gelan Corbaine
Sebiestor Field Sappers
Minmatar Republic
213
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Posted - 2013.10.31 00:59:00 -
[106] - Quote
Void Echo wrote:
look at my post on this page. also that was an example. and btw heavies are more efficient than tanks are money wise.
if im going against a full team of proto suits in only a militia suit, should I be able to wipe the floor with them?
Only way a heavy is more efficient than a tank money wise is if he's ontop a tower in the middle of a bunch of nanohives and triades, otherwise no . |
Void Echo
Blades of Dust
2007
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Posted - 2013.10.31 01:07:00 -
[107] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Void Echo wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Void Echo wrote:answer my question:
why should I put all of my personal investment and skill into tanks when a heavy who has put so little investment into his would be far more efficient? what would be the point of skilling into something if another thing could do its job better at a much lower investment requirement?
also, where would be the balance between "skill" and personal investment in this game when "skill would completely denounce logic when fighting far superior equipment? A heavy is not far more efficient at killing than a tank. The current state of heavies is laughable. Your second question does not make sense. I have a rough idea of what you're talking about though - Are you saying that if you have superior equipment you should be completely unkillable by inferior equipment? If so, then I disagree. Strenuously. This game already has enough problems with newbie stomping without it becoming literally impossible for newbies to compete. look at my post on this page. also that was an example. and btw heavies are more efficient than tanks are money wise. if im going against a full team of proto suits in only a militia suit, should I be able to wipe the floor with them? Oh yes, more efficient isk wise. My BPO suits are infinitely efficient, whilst we're on that subject. Perhaps you should drop everything and run for them if that's so important? A heavy suit is not as effective at killing as a tank is, nor is it as durable. Not efficient, effective. Part of what balances spending large amounts of isk are diminishing returns per isk. Otherwise prototype suits would be even more powerful and actually sustainable - neither of which would be good for the game. Similarly, you pay for the power of HAVs. You can ***** and whine about how you don't think you're invincible enough, but you are investing isk for more power. That's a ridiculously loaded example. Obviously not - not only is your gear outmatched, you are also outnumbered. Even if they're complete retards you're going to get wrecked. The examples I was giving were where skill could tip the scales, not make everything else completely irrelevant. You have to be deliberately misinterpreting me now because I honestly believe someone can't be that stupid. I'm done. I tried to be reasonable with you. It took 6 pages, but I've realised you can't be reasoned with. Congratulations.
lol talking about being reasonable? ha
I haven't even posted on this thread until 1-2 pages ago, you should pay more attention *****.
I rarely meet reasonable people in this game, your no different.
Closed Beta Vet
Level 2 Forum Warrior
"In my experience love doesnt exist, only cold, dark betrayal does."
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Void Echo
Blades of Dust
2007
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Posted - 2013.10.31 01:08:00 -
[108] - Quote
Gelan Corbaine wrote:Void Echo wrote:
look at my post on this page. also that was an example. and btw heavies are more efficient than tanks are money wise.
if im going against a full team of proto suits in only a militia suit, should I be able to wipe the floor with them?
Only way a heavy is more efficient than a tank money wise is if he's ontop a tower in the middle of a bunch of nanohives and triades, otherwise no .
a single tank loss is over 4 matches worth, a single heavy loss is around one match, Id say they are more efficient.
Closed Beta Vet
Level 2 Forum Warrior
"In my experience love doesnt exist, only cold, dark betrayal does."
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CharCharOdell
1413
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Posted - 2013.10.31 01:23:00 -
[109] - Quote
This topic needs to stop. AV nades and swarms need to be used in context of light vehicles; not LAVs.
Gùñ-é-º+¼+ò+¦GÖÑ+ú+ú+¡ GÖÑ'Ðe+ü+üGùÑ
Gùú -ä>-üð+++Ç++§<-¡<-¡ Gùó
Speaker of the Mangrove / King of QQ / Co-Founder of the Learning Coalition
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Foxhound Elite
Ancient Exiles
384
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Posted - 2013.10.31 01:28:00 -
[110] - Quote
Just to clarify, I'm not a tanker, I'm a dropship pilot.
Python pilot, troop-transport specialist and an all-round ballbag.
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
1159
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Posted - 2013.10.31 03:33:00 -
[111] - Quote
Needless Sacermendor wrote:I think Void Echo skipped debating 101 class !
Actually, we win our arguments with lists, comparisons, facts, and above all, math.
Teamwork for thee, but no teamwork for me, such is the motto of the anti vehicle infantry.
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
1159
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Posted - 2013.10.31 03:37:00 -
[112] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Void Echo wrote:answer my question:
why should I put all of my personal investment and skill into tanks when a heavy who has put so little investment into his would be far more efficient? what would be the point of skilling into something if another thing could do its job better at a much lower investment requirement?
also, where would be the balance between "skill" and personal investment in this game when "skill would completely denounce logic when fighting far superior equipment? A heavy is not far more efficient at killing than a tank. The current state of heavies is laughable. Your second question does not make sense. I have a rough idea of what you're talking about though - Are you saying that if you have superior equipment you should be completely unkillable by inferior equipment? If so, then I disagree. Strenuously. This game already has enough problems with newbie stomping without it becoming literally impossible for newbies to compete.
lolwut
A forge gun is far more efficient than any tank turret at destroying a tank.
Teamwork for thee, but no teamwork for me, such is the motto of the anti vehicle infantry.
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
1159
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Posted - 2013.10.31 03:39:00 -
[113] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Void Echo wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Void Echo wrote:answer my question:
why should I put all of my personal investment and skill into tanks when a heavy who has put so little investment into his would be far more efficient? what would be the point of skilling into something if another thing could do its job better at a much lower investment requirement?
also, where would be the balance between "skill" and personal investment in this game when "skill would completely denounce logic when fighting far superior equipment? A heavy is not far more efficient at killing than a tank. The current state of heavies is laughable. Your second question does not make sense. I have a rough idea of what you're talking about though - Are you saying that if you have superior equipment you should be completely unkillable by inferior equipment? If so, then I disagree. Strenuously. This game already has enough problems with newbie stomping without it becoming literally impossible for newbies to compete. look at my post on this page. also that was an example. and btw heavies are more efficient than tanks are money wise. if im going against a full team of proto suits in only a militia suit, should I be able to wipe the floor with them? Oh yes, more efficient isk wise. My BPO suits are infinitely efficient, whilst we're on that subject. Perhaps you should drop everything and run for them if that's so important? A heavy suit is not as effective at killing as a tank is, nor is it as durable. Not efficient, effective. Part of what balances spending large amounts of isk are diminishing returns per isk. Otherwise prototype suits would be even more powerful and actually sustainable - neither of which would be good for the game. Similarly, you pay for the power of HAVs. You can ***** and whine about how you don't think you're invincible enough, but you are investing isk for more power. That's a ridiculously loaded example. Obviously not - not only is your gear outmatched, you are also outnumbered. Even if they're complete retards you're going to get wrecked. The examples I was giving were where skill could tip the scales, not make everything else completely irrelevant. You have to be deliberately misinterpreting me now because I honestly believe someone can't be that stupid. I'm done. I tried to be reasonable with you. It took 6 pages, but I've realised you can't be reasoned with. Congratulations.
Of course you can make ISK using PRO suits, they nerfed the price by a hell of a lot.
Teamwork for thee, but no teamwork for me, such is the motto of the anti vehicle infantry.
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Jackof All-Trades
The Southern Legion
The Umbra Combine
209
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Posted - 2013.10.31 04:04:00 -
[114] - Quote
and what glorious fun it was! |
Rusty Shallows
Black Jackals
454
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Posted - 2013.10.31 04:09:00 -
[115] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Justin Tymes wrote:[quote=Judge Rhadamanthus]snip Okay solo fine but your talking about a frigate trying to destroy a battle cruiser here. Its not that ******* easy.
Bad analogy, in Eve cheap T1 gank ships take out one billion isk Marauders. CCP even drastically toned down a module that would have matched the ships market cost to its combat value.
"She may not be Miss Right but she'll do right now," Thank you SR-71
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Sgt Kirk
SyNergy Gaming
EoN.
2462
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Posted - 2013.10.31 04:12:00 -
[116] - Quote
I dumped tanks as soon as they got rid of my Surya.
All I care about is my Methana, which may actually have some chance to survive now that AV grenades aren't insta-kill.
I may have deleted DUST but I still care deeply about this game.
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Operative 1171 Aajli
Bragian Order
Amarr Empire
678
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Posted - 2013.10.31 04:25:00 -
[117] - Quote
My understanding is that tanks will be only briefly OP. Then they will go vunerable.
Which means you actually need to be smarter about AV and plant yourself at a point where you can blast a tank while it's on cooldown.
That shouldn't be hard to do. If a team is organized and plans on the enemy AVer being in that juicy spot along the tanks patrol route then it isn't the tanks fault you can't settle in and camp. |
True Adamance
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
3827
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Posted - 2013.10.31 04:29:00 -
[118] - Quote
Rusty Shallows wrote:True Adamance wrote:Justin Tymes wrote:[quote=Judge Rhadamanthus]snip Okay solo fine but your talking about a frigate trying to destroy a battle cruiser here. Its not that ******* easy. Bad analogy, in Eve cheap T1 gank ships take out one billion isk Marauders. CCP even drastically toned down a module that would have matched the ships market cost to its combat value.
Admittedly you have to have a lot of them, T1 is ******* **** unless you are using T2 guns.
"All things were created by the Divine, and so the glory of our faith is inherent to us all"
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
1159
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Posted - 2013.10.31 04:32:00 -
[119] - Quote
Infantry, have to intelligently use AV? What is this madness?
Teamwork for thee, but no teamwork for me, such is the motto of the anti vehicle infantry.
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KING CHECKMATE
AMARR IMPERIAL CRUSADERS
2194
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Posted - 2013.10.31 04:44:00 -
[120] - Quote
Every time i get into an AV vs Tanker Thread i get the impression Spkr4theDead and Void echo are lovers....
They just cover their backs mutually so beautifully...
:')
u+Élop s-¦ -Äll+Én-ç+ö+É
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