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Void Echo Blades of Dust 2005	Posted - 2013.10.30 22:25:00 - [1] - Quote ....hehehe.... that is all. Gallente Pure Blood Level 2 Forum Warrior "In my experience love doesnt exist, only cold, dark betrayal does."
Void Echo Blades of Dust 2005	Posted - 2013.10.30 22:28:00 - [2] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: I was not advocating one position or the other. I wanted to know if Justin, who thinks SP should not give an advantage, would see the purpose and function of skill points. If skill points do givr and advantage, the determination of the size of this advantage is the balance. If they give no advantage what then? call of duty logic, don't question it or you will be flamed Gallente Pure Blood Level 2 Forum Warrior "In my experience love doesnt exist, only cold, dark betrayal does."
Void Echo Blades of Dust 2006	Posted - 2013.10.30 22:45:00 - [3] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Void Echo wrote: Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: I was not advocating one position or the other. I wanted to know if Justin, who thinks SP should not give an advantage, would see the purpose and function of skill points. If skill points do givr and advantage, the determination of the size of this advantage is the balance. If they give no advantage what then? call of duty logic, don't question it or you will be flamed Oh great. Void is here. Abandon thread, useless posts incoming.... @Godin: Yeah i know what you are saying and i agree with you, bu i use Lai dai Grenades, Wyrikomi Swarms launchers and Ishikune/Kaalakiota Forge guns, sometimes (depending on the map) I canot effectivley destroy a tank,because he was very fast or the map helped him with cover, so he can attack ,leave,repair,rinse and repeat, and i can spend a whole match just damaging him and at the end of the match i'll get mayed 0 WP for spending all match pushing him back AND if a change my suit,the tank will come and ravage my team ,because exagerations appart, MLT/STD weaponry is crap vs good tanks... Now do i solo tanks? Sure, any epxerienced AV can solo tanks. with the right positioning and SOME form of backup its doable. For tankers to tell me i shouldnt be able to SOLO MLT tanks with my 180k Proto AV dropsuit is just madness.... im here for sight seeing.. im done trying to fix the non-existing balance. Closed Beta Vet Level 2 Forum Warrior "In my experience love doesnt exist, only cold, dark betrayal does."
Void Echo Blades of Dust 2006	Posted - 2013.10.30 22:50:00 - [4] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: Lets take a hypothetical : A tank and a Swarm launcher face each other in a field. What determines who wins? Is it fair that the one with more SP and ISK investment has a higher chance when skill is not considered to win? If not then what incentive do people have to earn SP and spend ISK? Does it feel fun, and fair that 120k can kill 2.5 million ISK as easily as 2.5 can kill 120k? Is it fun to know you cannot even dent 2.5million with 120k? Where skill is not a factor, the one with the higher ISK and SP investment should win. However, skill should be a factor. As for your two questions: 1. No. 2. No. What are your thoughts on reducing the price gap? That way vehicles aren't massively frustrating to lose or to face. then again, should skill increase the odds of the investment anyway? if no then why bother trying to skill into gallente proto assault when militia minmitar will be more powerful? Closed Beta Vet Level 2 Forum Warrior "In my experience love doesnt exist, only cold, dark betrayal does."
Void Echo Blades of Dust 2006	Posted - 2013.10.30 22:59:00 - [5] - Quote Justin Tymes wrote: Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: I was not advocating one position or the other. I wanted to know what Justin, who thinks SP should not give an advantage, would see as the purpose and function of skill points. If skill points do give and advantage, the determination of the size of this advantage is the balance. If they give no advantage what then? It should give an advantage but that advantage must be relative with everything else in the game. I have about 15mill invested into making a complete Gallente Logistics suit right now. I should always be able to be solo'd, because that's the way Dust works. Tanks already have an advantage to being immune to most weapons, and have the ability to kill anything in seconds, if that. Which is fine but AV has to be your counter. 1 man should be able to solo another man regardless of the SP wall. 1 man should not be bending numerical advantage to his will, simply because he decided to bring a well-fit tank in play, that completely goes against skill. then that means that I wasted over 10 million SP to go into tanks when heavies are the better way to go since they are actually balanced versus other things. and by your logic, dust 514 should not exist because it puts personal investment on the same level as personal skill and you people don't like that. its completely fine for a single man to mow down an entire team inside a human sized heavy dropsuit because well... hes a heavy dropstuit with more hp than you all and he has a more powerful gun. but its wrong for a person to win against an entire team using a 50 ton vehicle sized weapon with a vehicle sized turret mounted on it because by your logic, his sp and isk investment is far greater than yours so he should be punished for being more into it than you are. Closed Beta Vet Level 2 Forum Warrior "In my experience love doesnt exist, only cold, dark betrayal does."
Void Echo Blades of Dust 2006	Posted - 2013.10.30 23:12:00 - [6] - Quote Needless Sacermendor wrote: Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: And he did say that. If a thing is not superior, then it has no properties that are greater than; then this means it is equal. A single property that is greater/superior would mean the whole is greater if no other properties are changed. Wrong ... you're definition is of something that is better ... something that is superior has every property better and is in another league and cannot be beaten by. A proto dropsuit with complex extenders n plates n proto weapons is not superior to a militia fitting ... because a militia fitting is capable of killing proto fittings. SP and ISK do not make you superior or replace skill ... what it does do is give you an advantage ... you can extend that advantage over all aspects of your fitting, but it will NEVER make you superior as skill can still defeat you. its a giant contradiction then, theres no way this would work in real life. Closed Beta Vet Level 2 Forum Warrior "In my experience love doesnt exist, only cold, dark betrayal does."
Void Echo Blades of Dust 2006	Posted - 2013.10.30 23:22:00 - [7] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Void Echo wrote: Needless Sacermendor wrote: Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: And he did say that. If a thing is not superior, then it has no properties that are greater than; then this means it is equal. A single property that is greater/superior would mean the whole is greater if no other properties are changed. Wrong ... you're definition is of something that is better ... something that is superior has every property better and is in another league and cannot be beaten by. A proto dropsuit with complex extenders n plates n proto weapons is not superior to a militia fitting ... because a militia fitting is capable of killing proto fittings. SP and ISK do not make you superior or replace skill ... what it does do is give you an advantage ... you can extend that advantage over all aspects of your fitting, but it will NEVER make you superior as skill can still defeat you. its a giant contradiction then, theres no way this would work in real life. Congratulations on attaining forum warrior level 2. Needless Sacermendor - I suppose if you define superior as that then yes, things should not be superior due to isk investment alone. I agree - skill should certainly allow lesser investments to defeat greater investments. It worries me that protosuits are so dominant in the infantry vs infantry area at the moment, but they can at least still be killed. Void Echo - Would you mind terribly clarifying what you think is contradicting itself? I'm a little baffled, and I would very much like to hear your feelings clearly on the matter. whats contradicting about it is that here personal investment is present and so is personal skill... by there reasoning personal investment should not mean anything when it comes to the game. by this standing they are saying that there is no point of me skilling into the gallente proto assault suit because according to them, the militia minmitar suit will be far more powerful because it requires no personal investment whatsoever and the gallente proto suit will be nearly worthless because it requires personal investment. basically punishing anyone attempting to put more into the game than they are. their argument is a giant contradiction. understand? Closed Beta Vet Level 2 Forum Warrior "In my experience love doesnt exist, only cold, dark betrayal does."
Void Echo Blades of Dust 2006	Posted - 2013.10.30 23:26:00 - [8] - Quote Needless Sacermendor wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: CharCharOdell wrote: How about this: LIGHT AV weapons should be good at taking out light vehicles, but ineffective at taking out heavy vehicles, while heavy AV kills all vehicles relatively quickly. Doesn't that make sense? It makes too much sense, which is why infantry won't allow it. I'll accept it when Heavies can stand toe to toe with the heaviest of vehicles and survive ... like they're supposed to according to the description. Good luck with your 5,000 hp heavy suits on the field though. if heavies are able to stand toe to toe against vehicles, what purpose would there be to skill into vehicles at all when the heavy suit is just as good and requires a lot less personal investment that vehicles do. Closed Beta Vet Level 2 Forum Warrior "In my experience love doesnt exist, only cold, dark betrayal does."
Void Echo Blades of Dust 2006	Posted - 2013.10.30 23:31:00 - [9] - Quote nakaya indigene wrote: Its not so much of the isk or sp being put into tanks and DS. Its more about when you are being dominated by AV theres nothing to fall back to. With most pub matches people proto stomp so militia just doesnt cut it. It makes a situation where vechile pilots might as well not play the game and thats bullshit. indeed Closed Beta Vet Level 2 Forum Warrior "In my experience love doesnt exist, only cold, dark betrayal does."
Void Echo Blades of Dust 2006	Posted - 2013.10.30 23:38:00 - [10] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Void Echo wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Congratulations on attaining forum warrior level 2. Needless Sacermendor - I suppose if you define superior as that then yes, things should not be superior due to isk investment alone. I agree - skill should certainly allow lesser investments to defeat greater investments. It worries me that protosuits are so dominant in the infantry vs infantry area at the moment, but they can at least still be killed. Void Echo - Would you mind terribly clarifying what you think is contradicting itself? I'm a little baffled, and I would very much like to hear your feelings clearly on the matter. whats contradicting about it is that here personal investment is present and so is personal skill... by there reasoning personal investment should not mean anything when it comes to the game. by this standing they are saying that there is no point of me skilling into the gallente proto assault suit because according to them, the militia minmitar suit will be far more powerful because it requires no personal investment whatsoever and the gallente proto suit will be nearly worthless because it requires personal investment. basically punishing anyone attempting to put more into the game than they are. their argument is a giant contradiction. understand? I'm afraid I don't. Why can't they co-exist? Where SP acts as a force multiplier for skill, conferring a greater advantage? If skill is equal, then in your example the Gallente proto assault suit would beat the militia Minmatar suit handily, as a greater amount of ISK and SP is invested in the Gallente proto assault. If the Gallente proto assault has more skill, then the militia suit is still screwed. However, if the militia Minmatar suit has more skill than the Gallente proto assault, then it should be able to kill them. Can't a similar concept be applied to vehicles? Where investment rewards you, but you can still be outplayed? indeed, there has to be a balance, right now and for as long as I can remember, there is really no incentive to skill into tanks other than to have tank fights which rarely happen anymore. according to everyone else here though, your militia minmitar suit will always beat my proto gallente suit regardless if I put over 10x more investment into my suit than you did for yours. skill and personal investment should be considered on the same level and the same on some subjects, but people from call of duty, battle field and other games where they have never had to put their personal time and effort into anything reject the personal investment part of this game and demand that their militia suits be able to one shot everything that's bigger and more powerful then they are. I can see that the reason why this game is so terrible with the community is because this game is different and new... and people don't like new things, they want what theyv known for years without having to think. Closed Beta Vet Level 2 Forum Warrior "In my experience love doesnt exist, only cold, dark betrayal does."

Void Echo Blades of Dust 2006	Posted - 2013.10.30 23:40:00 - [11] - Quote Justin Tymes wrote: Void Echo wrote: Justin Tymes wrote: Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: I was not advocating one position or the other. I wanted to know what Justin, who thinks SP should not give an advantage, would see as the purpose and function of skill points. If skill points do give and advantage, the determination of the size of this advantage is the balance. If they give no advantage what then? It should give an advantage but that advantage must be relative with everything else in the game. I have about 15mill invested into making a complete Gallente Logistics suit right now. I should always be able to be solo'd, because that's the way Dust works. Tanks already have an advantage to being immune to most weapons, and have the ability to kill anything in seconds, if that. Which is fine but AV has to be your counter. 1 man should be able to solo another man regardless of the SP wall. 1 man should not be bending numerical advantage to his will, simply because he decided to bring a well-fit tank in play, that completely goes against skill. then that means that I wasted over 10 million SP to go into tanks when heavies are the better way to go since they are actually balanced versus other things. and by your logic, dust 514 should not exist because it puts personal investment on the same level as personal skill and you people don't like that. its completely fine for a single man to mow down an entire team inside a human sized heavy dropsuit because well... hes a heavy dropstuit with more hp than you all and he has a more powerful gun. but its wrong for a person to win against an entire team using a 50 ton vehicle sized weapon with a vehicle sized turret mounted on it because by your logic, his sp and isk investment is far greater than yours so he should be punished for being more into it than you are. The logic is that any and everyone should be able to be solo'd regardless of the SP wall or ISK costs. You analogy is bad because it's not rare at all for a heavy to be solo'd. This is completely different from not only requiring specific and limited weapons to kill you, but requiring multiple men to do it, and the number of Infantry needed is dependent on the class of your weapons. That's advantage manipulation period, and it goes against skill. then refund my tank sp so I can put it into proto gallente assault, since by your logic, my gallente suit should one shot any tank with a scrambler pistol. in fact, refund all of my sp, because any militia dropsuit should be able to solo a giant massively superior tank. Closed Beta Vet Level 2 Forum Warrior "In my experience love doesnt exist, only cold, dark betrayal does."
Void Echo Blades of Dust 2006	Posted - 2013.10.30 23:42:00 - [12] - Quote Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: So... what exactly is the point of tanks, in the end? I drive the damn things and I've not a clue. What's their role? What are they supposed to be used for? How can you balance them if you don't know what FOR? according to the people currently posting, there is no point because suits should be more powerful than an entire planet, so tanks are a giant contradiction because they require tremendous personal investment for absolutely nothing. Closed Beta Vet Level 2 Forum Warrior "In my experience love doesnt exist, only cold, dark betrayal does."
Void Echo Blades of Dust 2006	Posted - 2013.10.31 00:07:00 - [13] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Void Echo wrote: Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: So... what exactly is the point of tanks, in the end? I drive the damn things and I've not a clue. What's their role? What are they supposed to be used for? How can you balance them if you don't know what FOR? according to the people currently posting, there is no point because suits should be more powerful than an entire planet, so tanks are a giant contradiction because they require tremendous personal investment for absolutely nothing. I wish it wouldn't come to this every time there's a discussion about this topic. No. For the fourth time - Investment should give an advantage, but it shouldn't mean that you automatically win against anything of lower investment. I wish that were how everyone else thought Closed Beta Vet Level 2 Forum Warrior "In my experience love doesnt exist, only cold, dark betrayal does."
Void Echo Blades of Dust 2006	Posted - 2013.10.31 00:10:00 - [14] - Quote Needless Sacermendor wrote: Void Echo wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Wrong ... you're definition is of something that is better ... something that is superior has every property better and is in another league and cannot be beaten by. A proto dropsuit with complex extenders n plates n proto weapons is not superior to a militia fitting ... because a militia fitting is capable of killing proto fittings. SP and ISK do not make you superior or replace skill ... what it does do is give you an advantage ... you can extend that advantage over all aspects of your fitting, but it will NEVER make you superior as skill can still defeat you. its a giant contradiction then, theres no way this would work in real life. Congratulations on attaining forum warrior level 2. Needless Sacermendor - I suppose if you define superior as that then yes, things should not be superior due to isk investment alone. I agree - skill should certainly allow lesser investments to defeat greater investments. It worries me that protosuits are so dominant in the infantry vs infantry area at the moment, but they can at least still be killed. Void Echo - Would you mind terribly clarifying what you think is contradicting itself? I'm a little baffled, and I would very much like to hear your feelings clearly on the matter. whats contradicting about it is that here personal investment is present and so is personal skill... by there reasoning personal investment should not mean anything when it comes to the game. by this standing they are saying that there is no point of me skilling into the gallente proto assault suit because according to them, the militia minmitar suit will be far more powerful because it requires no personal investment whatsoever and the gallente proto suit will be nearly worthless because it requires personal investment. basically punishing anyone attempting to put more into the game than they are. their argument is a giant contradiction. understand?[/quote] If you're skilling into that Gallente proto Assault suit because you have no skill or because you expect it to be unbeatable then I can tell you now, there's really no point skilling into it. Personal skill is still present in people with low SP and so are tactical advantages ... both of which should trump your proto assault suit even if the difference is 100x the SP investment ... especially if you have no personal skill. On the other hand, as is generally the case, someone with personal skill and tactical advantage and proto level fittings would be superior. Is that simples enough for you ?[/quote] the way you would have it is that a single militia suit would wipe the floor with nothing but enemy proto suits because he has personal skill, and the proto have skill but their investment is far more but they would still be cheated out of everything they had. Closed Beta Vet Level 2 Forum Warrior "In my experience love doesnt exist, only cold, dark betrayal does."
Void Echo Blades of Dust 2006	Posted - 2013.10.31 00:12:00 - [15] - Quote answer my question: why should I put all of my personal investment and skill into tanks when a heavy who has put so little investment into his would be far more efficient? what would be the point of skilling into something if another thing could do its job better at a much lower investment requirement? also, where would be the balance between "skill" and personal investment in this game when "skill would completely denounce logic when fighting far superior equipment? Closed Beta Vet Level 2 Forum Warrior "In my experience love doesnt exist, only cold, dark betrayal does."
Void Echo Blades of Dust 2006	Posted - 2013.10.31 00:15:00 - [16] - Quote Needless Sacermendor wrote: Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: So... what exactly is the point of tanks, in the end? I drive the damn things and I've not a clue. What's their role? What are they supposed to be used for? How can you balance them if you don't know what FOR? They're supposed to scare infantry ... they do it so well in fact that many infantry adapt and skill into AV weapons to counter them. It's a lot like when calogis were running round with massive shields and everyone quickly started carrying fluxes (cos lazers had been nerfed to oblivion). The problem is that those that decided they wanted the security of 7 inches of steel wrapped around them, suddenly realised they had no adaptation of their own since they skilled into something so specialised and conspicuous and they had no dropsuit skills to fall back on to counter what had been deployed to counter their assets. technically that's not true, im a vet tanker with over 10 million SP in tanks yet I am adaptable and can survive outside of my tank. I also have sp into gallente assault, I make your statement invalid. Closed Beta Vet Level 2 Forum Warrior "In my experience love doesnt exist, only cold, dark betrayal does."
Void Echo Blades of Dust 2006	Posted - 2013.10.31 00:31:00 - [17] - Quote Needless Sacermendor wrote: Void ... seriously give it a rest ... you're making a fool of yourself arguing points people haven't even made. Come back when you've learnt a little reading comprehension. You're hung up on my quoting of the Heavy dropsuit description in game which says it should be able to stand toe to toe with the heaviest of vehicles (or something similar) ... when that statement was in reply to someone saying that light AV should only be useful against light vehicles ... a dumb statement since we only have LAVs currently that are light vehicles. I said fine, so long as Heavies fit their description. Now take a minute to read through ANYTHING else I've written in this thread ... and tell me again, even quote me saying anything about unskilled low sp people being at an advantage against skilled proto users UNLESS they have a tactical advantage, like you're on your own in a bunker calling in an orbital or looking at the map and they walk in on you. Surely even you can manage to comprehend that from everything I've posted here. why don't you just answer my question. Closed Beta Vet Level 2 Forum Warrior "In my experience love doesnt exist, only cold, dark betrayal does."
Void Echo Blades of Dust 2006	Posted - 2013.10.31 00:36:00 - [18] - Quote Pocket Rocket Girl wrote: Void Echo wrote: answer my question: why should I put all of my personal investment and skill into tanks when a heavy who has put so little investment into his would be far more efficient? what would be the point of skilling into something if another thing could do its job better at a much lower investment requirement? also, where would be the balance between "skill" and personal investment in this game when "skill would completely denounce logic when fighting far superior equipment? Because it is a personal choice like the people who choose to spend Sp into scouts,as well that choice apeals to your personal play style. i could have chosen to spend into a caldari proto with stacking shields and armor and a duvolle at a lower investment but instead went for minmatar logi hack build instead because it appealed to my and what i felt i would be better at. i do not understand your second question my seconds question is pretty straight forward. Closed Beta Vet Level 2 Forum Warrior "In my experience love doesnt exist, only cold, dark betrayal does."
Void Echo Blades of Dust 2006	Posted - 2013.10.31 00:42:00 - [19] - Quote in my opinion. personal investment should allow you to compete, personal skill should allow you to overcome. you should not be able to have one without the other, they should be joined. Closed Beta Vet Level 2 Forum Warrior "In my experience love doesnt exist, only cold, dark betrayal does."
Void Echo Blades of Dust 2006	Posted - 2013.10.31 00:48:00 - [20] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Void Echo wrote: answer my question: why should I put all of my personal investment and skill into tanks when a heavy who has put so little investment into his would be far more efficient? what would be the point of skilling into something if another thing could do its job better at a much lower investment requirement? also, where would be the balance between "skill" and personal investment in this game when "skill would completely denounce logic when fighting far superior equipment? A heavy is not far more efficient at killing than a tank. The current state of heavies is laughable. Your second question does not make sense. I have a rough idea of what you're talking about though - Are you saying that if you have superior equipment you should be completely unkillable by inferior equipment? If so, then I disagree. Strenuously. This game already has enough problems with newbie stomping without it becoming literally impossible for newbies to compete. look at my post on this page. if im going against a full team of proto suits in only a militia suit, should I be able to wipe the floor with them? Closed Beta Vet Level 2 Forum Warrior "In my experience love doesnt exist, only cold, dark betrayal does."

Void Echo Blades of Dust 2007	Posted - 2013.10.31 01:07:00 - [21] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Void Echo wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Void Echo wrote: answer my question: why should I put all of my personal investment and skill into tanks when a heavy who has put so little investment into his would be far more efficient? what would be the point of skilling into something if another thing could do its job better at a much lower investment requirement? also, where would be the balance between "skill" and personal investment in this game when "skill would completely denounce logic when fighting far superior equipment? A heavy is not far more efficient at killing than a tank. The current state of heavies is laughable. Your second question does not make sense. I have a rough idea of what you're talking about though - Are you saying that if you have superior equipment you should be completely unkillable by inferior equipment? If so, then I disagree. Strenuously. This game already has enough problems with newbie stomping without it becoming literally impossible for newbies to compete. look at my post on this page. also that was an example. and btw heavies are more efficient than tanks are money wise. if im going against a full team of proto suits in only a militia suit, should I be able to wipe the floor with them? Oh yes, more efficient isk wise. My BPO suits are infinitely efficient, whilst we're on that subject. Perhaps you should drop everything and run for them if that's so important? A heavy suit is not as effective at killing as a tank is, nor is it as durable. Not efficient, effective. Part of what balances spending large amounts of isk are diminishing returns per isk. Otherwise prototype suits would be even more powerful and actually sustainable - neither of which would be good for the game. Similarly, you pay for the power of HAVs. You can *** and whine about how you don't think you're invincible enough, but you are investing isk for more power. That's a ridiculously loaded example. Obviously not - not only is your gear outmatched, you are also outnumbered. Even if they're complete retards you're going to get wrecked. The examples I was giving were where skill could tip the scales, not make everything else completely irrelevant. You have to be deliberately misinterpreting me now because I honestly believe someone can't be that stupid. I'm done. I tried to be reasonable with you. It took 6 pages, but I've realised you can't be reasoned with. Congratulations. lol talking about being reasonable? ha I haven't even posted on this thread until 1-2 pages ago, you should pay more attention *. I rarely meet reasonable people in this game, your no different. Closed Beta Vet** Level 2 Forum Warrior "In my experience love doesnt exist, only cold, dark betrayal does."
Void Echo Blades of Dust 2007	Posted - 2013.10.31 01:08:00 - [22] - Quote Gelan Corbaine wrote: Void Echo wrote: look at my post on this page. also that was an example. and btw heavies are more efficient than tanks are money wise. if im going against a full team of proto suits in only a militia suit, should I be able to wipe the floor with them? Only way a heavy is more efficient than a tank money wise is if he's ontop a tower in the middle of a bunch of nanohives and triades, otherwise no . a single tank loss is over 4 matches worth, a single heavy loss is around one match, Id say they are more efficient. Closed Beta Vet Level 2 Forum Warrior "In my experience love doesnt exist, only cold, dark betrayal does."
Void Echo Blades of Dust 2010	Posted - 2013.10.31 04:58:00 - [23] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Every time i get into an AV vs Tanker Thread i get the impression Spkr4theDead and Void echo are lovers.... They just cover their backs mutually so beautifully... :') lol I could see why people would think that. I don't care what he does and I don't associate with him. Closed Beta Vet Level 2 Forum Warrior "In my experience love doesnt exist, only cold, dark betrayal does."
Void Echo Blades of Dust 2010	Posted - 2013.10.31 04:59:00 - [24] - Quote Operative 1171 Aajli wrote: My understanding is that tanks will be only briefly OP. Then they will go vunerable. Which means you actually need to be smarter about AV and plant yourself at a point where you can blast a tank while it's on cooldown. That shouldn't be hard to do. If a team is organized and plans on the enemy AVer being in that juicy spot along the tanks patrol route then it isn't the tanks fault you can't settle in and camp. 1/5 of the match they will be tanks, the rest of the time theyl be scout suits. lol Closed Beta Vet Level 2 Forum Warrior "In my experience love doesnt exist, only cold, dark betrayal does."
Void Echo Blades of Dust 2010	Posted - 2013.10.31 05:02:00 - [25] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Void Echo wrote: KING CHECKMATE wrote: Every time i get into an AV vs Tanker Thread i get the impression Spkr4theDead and Void echo are lovers.... They just cover their backs mutually so beautifully... :') lol I could see why people would think that. I don't care what he does and I don't associate with him. +1 for understanding the difference between a joke and an insult there are lots of things nobody knows about me, and I wont reveal them on the internet either. Closed Beta Vet Level 2 Forum Warrior "In my experience love doesnt exist, only cold, dark betrayal does."
Void Echo Blades of Dust 2010	Posted - 2013.10.31 05:47:00 - [26] - Quote Pocket Rocket Girl wrote: Void Echo wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Void Echo wrote: answer my question: why should I put all of my personal investment and skill into tanks when a heavy who has put so little investment into his would be far more efficient? what would be the point of skilling into something if another thing could do its job better at a much lower investment requirement? also, where would be the balance between "skill" and personal investment in this game when "skill would completely denounce logic when fighting far superior equipment? A heavy is not far more efficient at killing than a tank. The current state of heavies is laughable. Your second question does not make sense. I have a rough idea of what you're talking about though - Are you saying that if you have superior equipment you should be completely unkillable by inferior equipment? If so, then I disagree. Strenuously. This game already has enough problems with newbie stomping without it becoming literally impossible for newbies to compete. look at my post on this page. also that was an example. and btw heavies are more efficient than tanks are money wise. if im going against a full team of proto suits in only a militia suit, should I be able to wipe the floor with them? technally no but then again stick new players in said proto suits against people who have been playing for a long while in militia gear and guess what skill will over come equipment indeed... but my question is where do you put the balance between personal skill and personal investment. Closed Beta Vet Level 2 Forum Warrior "In my experience love doesnt exist, only cold, dark betrayal does."
Void Echo Blades of Dust 2010	Posted - 2013.10.31 06:01:00 - [27] - Quote Pocket Rocket Girl wrote: Void Echo wrote: Pocket Rocket Girl wrote: Void Echo wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: A heavy is not far more efficient at killing than a tank. The current state of heavies is laughable. Your second question does not make sense. I have a rough idea of what you're talking about though - Are you saying that if you have superior equipment you should be completely unkillable by inferior equipment? If so, then I disagree. Strenuously. This game already has enough problems with newbie stomping without it becoming literally impossible for newbies to compete. look at my post on this page. also that was an example. and btw heavies are more efficient than tanks are money wise. if im going against a full team of proto suits in only a militia suit, should I be able to wipe the floor with them? technally no but then again stick new players in said proto suits against people who have been playing for a long while in militia gear and guess what skill will over come equipment indeed... but my question is where do you put the balance between personal skill and personal investment. recently i have been doing nothing but using militia suits , every now and then ill switch to my av suit to go after a tank that is going unchecked 8/10 times i get killed before i get any where near the tank 1/10 ill be able to do some damage but the tank runs away 1/10 the tank just sits there untill its on fire and then starts to run but its too late already. Now with me using my militia gear suits i do perfectly fine, not amazing but i can hold my own. personal investment does indeed help but i believe that skill gets you farther technically wont skill be considered personal investment Closed Beta Vet Level 2 Forum Warrior "In my experience love doesnt exist, only cold, dark betrayal does."
Void Echo Blades of Dust 2010	Posted - 2013.10.31 06:28:00 - [28] - Quote Pocket Rocket Girl wrote: then if that is your point shouldn't your question be : where would you separate skill from personal investment ?: and if so it depends on your definition on personal investment some people think that spending time getting ISK or the people that invest time AFK farming. but does that require any skill? I would think that personal investment would have you able to use the equipment, your skill would be what you do with it. Closed Beta Vet Level 2 Forum Warrior "In my experience love doesnt exist, only cold, dark betrayal does."

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