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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Rogatien Merc
Red Star.
EoN.
1494
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Posted - 2013.10.21 05:33:00 -
[151] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:I am slightly concerned by how this will impact me as an HAV operator.
I drive around.... a lot of the time people get in my way. You'd think they would wise up and watch out for the 500 tonne tank rushing past.
But they don't, also LAV's like to blow them selves up against me trolling.
How will impacts affect my team mates, and will I be responsible for their deaths if they crash into me?
Aaaaaand now I can militia forge every tank I see into low armor...
... no TK penalty since I would never actually kiiiillll them, just significantly disrupt the ops; sit there and do it all day. Gonna be fun.
Hell I'm going to get really good at leaving people with a sliver of health using a militia SMG |
Bendtner92
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
1169
|
Posted - 2013.10.21 07:41:00 -
[152] - Quote
Rogatien Merc wrote:True Adamance wrote:I am slightly concerned by how this will impact me as an HAV operator.
I drive around.... a lot of the time people get in my way. You'd think they would wise up and watch out for the 500 tonne tank rushing past.
But they don't, also LAV's like to blow them selves up against me trolling.
How will impacts affect my team mates, and will I be responsible for their deaths if they crash into me? Aaaaaand now I can militia forge every tank I see into low armor... ... no TK penalty since I would never actually kiiiillll them, just significantly disrupt the ops; sit there and do it all day. Gonna be fun. Hell I'm going to get really good at leaving people with a sliver of health using a militia SMG
Which is exactly why FF isn't going to work out, at least as long as we're forced to play with randoms, which we will be since team deployment won't be implemented along with these FW changes.
I would love to see FF implemented, but I don't see a way to get it implemented in pub matches. |
Vell0cet
Royal Uhlans
Amarr Empire
432
|
Posted - 2013.10.21 15:46:00 -
[153] - Quote
We need a criminal flagging system. If you damage a teammate beyond a certain threshold--say 25% of total HP to accommodate for the odd bullet, and to make it a little harder for griefers who intentionally get in the way,or kill a teammate then you will be flagged "purple" on the minimap and chevron, for like 30 seconds or so. When you're purple, teammates receive no penalty for killing you. You would then have the option to defend yourselves if they're an obvious griefer, or ignore their purple status if it seems it was an accident. This could be tweaked where you won't go purple if you damage a squadmate. This system should address some of the issues raised.
Orbitals are tricky. The massive AoE makes it pretty hard to avoid friendly kills, but could be devastating in the hands of a griefer with an OB. Perhaps if you kill more enemies than friendlies you receive no penalty, but more friendlies than enemies will have a very severe penalty.
ISK needs to be factored into the penalty somehow. Someone running a free, or very cheap scout suit intentionally getting killed by jumping into your line of fire or on your grenades shouldn't be equivalent to blowing up a friendly tank, or a friendly in a bling-fit proto suit.
I like the idea of a voting system, but it needs to be resilliant to a squad of awoxers voting to kick the best players from a match.
I like the idea of charging the cost of what was destroyed to the griefer, but (and I hate to say this) griefers need to be able to inflict grief, so the victim shouldn't be reimbursed for the cost, the ISK payout should just vanish into the nether.
I think the system should be designed around 2 types of griefers, the casual griefer and the dedicated griefer. The casual griefer is one who hasn't invested effort in setting up the awox, is a new alt etc. the system should be designed to make it difficult to inflict much grief on their team. The dedicated griefer is someone who has invested a lot of time and energy infiltrating the enemy faction like a spy, and should be rewarded by making his ability to really cause serious havock on his own faction for a limited time (possibly turning the tide in a few key battles) before resetting to zero. It should also be relatively tolerant of unintentional TKs. |
Quil Evrything
DUST University
Ivy League
267
|
Posted - 2013.10.21 22:54:00 -
[154] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:I am slightly concerned by how this will impact me as an HAV operator.
I drive around.... a lot of the time people get in my way. You'd think they would wise up and watch out for the 500 tonne tank rushing past.
But they don't, also LAV's like to blow them selves up against me trolling.
How will impacts affect my team mates, and will I be responsible for their deaths if they crash into me?
Seems like you'll be affected just like everyone else. A high-speed (or very large) vehicle is a "deadly weapon".
You're going to have to check your weapon use and hold back if your teammates are in the way.
FYI, a simple solution to this would be if infantry in FW just got used to staying off the roads.
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Quil Evrything
DUST University
Ivy League
267
|
Posted - 2013.10.21 23:14:00 -
[155] - Quote
I missed out on this earlier post...
Jaysyn Larrisen wrote:
Quil... I don't think you are addressing the primary concern. Most of the folks posting here probably have the awareness to check fire or make moderately smart decisions. Effectively they can control themselves... you CAN'T control the other guy.
Reality check - in the real world, the majority of individual operator or small unit training that is key to preventing FF focuses heavily on not putting yourself in position to be hit by FF. The reason behind this is because ultimately you can only directly effect your own actions.
Seems like some ambiguity in your post. Okay, you're concerned about "the other guy".
What specifically about "the other guy" do you think still needs to be addressed?
You getting hit in the back by him?
Well, cheer up, it'll only happen a few times at best, then he'll get ejected for a long time, if not permenantly, if my recommendations are taken up.
And if you're totally paranoid about your special, uber suit getting shot in the back by a punk... then okay, only run with your own little squad, away from other blue dots.
It's not like they can hide from you; you know where they are.
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JP Acuna
RoyalSquad514
25
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Posted - 2013.10.22 02:40:00 -
[156] - Quote
Bendtner92 wrote:FoxFour, how will you stop players from just running around in FW trying to get teamkilled?
Would cutting friendly fire to 50% damage, or maybe even less, be a solution? It would make it so that you'll still do damage to your teammates, but won't be extreme unless you keep firing.
THIS.
If you're firing at enemies and suddenly a teammate moves between you and your target, with reduced damage you'd have time to realize and stop shooting or move and avoid the TK. |
Quil Evrything
DUST University
Ivy League
268
|
Posted - 2013.10.22 02:53:00 -
[157] - Quote
JP Acuna wrote:Bendtner92 wrote:FoxFour, how will you stop players from just running around in FW trying to get teamkilled?
Would cutting friendly fire to 50% damage, or maybe even less, be a solution? It would make it so that you'll still do damage to your teammates, but won't be extreme unless you keep firing. THIS. If you're firing at enemies and suddenly a teammate moves between you and your target, with reduced damage you'd have time to realize and stop shooting or move and avoid the TK.
no, you've missed the whole point.
You should have moved, BEFORE that time. You should not have been firing that close to your ally in the first place.
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Jaysyn Larrisen
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
139
|
Posted - 2013.10.22 02:54:00 -
[158] - Quote
Quil Evrything wrote:I missed out on this earlier post... Jaysyn Larrisen wrote:
Quil... I don't think you are addressing the primary concern. Most of the folks posting here probably have the awareness to check fire or make moderately smart decisions. Effectively they can control themselves... you CAN'T control the other guy.
Reality check - in the real world, the majority of individual operator or small unit training that is key to preventing FF focuses heavily on not putting yourself in position to be hit by FF. The reason behind this is because ultimately you can only directly effect your own actions.
Seems like some ambiguity in your post. Okay, you're concerned about "the other guy". What specifically about "the other guy" do you think still needs to be addressed? You getting hit in the back by him? Well, cheer up, it'll only happen a few times at best, then he'll get ejected for a long time, if not permenantly, if my recommendations are taken up. And if you're totally paranoid about your special, uber suit getting shot in the back by a punk... then okay, only run with your own little squad, away from other blue dots. It's not like they can hide from you; you know where they are.
Not sure what was ambiguous but I'll clarify; my concern about the other guy is not so much about him back shooting me on purpose. It's more focused on the lack of penalty of the guy that steps right into your line of fire or charges in before the grenade goes off. The only person that gets dinged is the shooter...regardless of what the other party's action was.
I started paying a bit more to potential FF incidents in the last day or so and I was a little surprised at how often I thought I might have been on involved in a FF. The vast majority of these were related to guys stepping in front of you at incredibly in opportune times. I would like to attribute most of this to lack of coms or situational awareness on their part...could also be plain old Blueberry-ness.
The other thing I noticed was that orbital strikes have the potential to be pretty nasty. You can't tell everyone to back off 100 meters from the location your dropping ordinance on - ouch.
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INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC
Intara Direct Action
Caldari State
87
|
Posted - 2013.10.22 19:27:00 -
[159] - Quote
XEROO COOL wrote:Goodbye Locust Grenades... hello Flux Grenades.
I shall still bring the rain with Infinite core bombs lobbed high onto the heads of the lowly armor of Gallente scum all day long, we Cals can take the damage |
INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC
Intara Direct Action
Caldari State
87
|
Posted - 2013.10.22 19:33:00 -
[160] - Quote
Rogatien Merc wrote:True Adamance wrote:I am slightly concerned by how this will impact me as an HAV operator.
I drive around.... a lot of the time people get in my way. You'd think they would wise up and watch out for the 500 tonne tank rushing past.
But they don't, also LAV's like to blow them selves up against me trolling.
How will impacts affect my team mates, and will I be responsible for their deaths if they crash into me? Aaaaaand now I can militia forge every tank I see into low armor... ... no TK penalty since I would never actually kiiiillll them, just significantly disrupt the ops; sit there and do it all day. Gonna be fun. Hell I'm going to get really good at leaving people with a sliver of health using a militia SMG
Im guessing sarcasm, but leave it to the goons, this is exactly what they will do. |
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Quil Evrything
Dust University
Ivy League
269
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Posted - 2013.10.22 19:39:00 -
[161] - Quote
Jaysyn Larrisen wrote:
Not sure what was ambiguous but I'll clarify; my concern about the other guy is not so much about him back shooting me on purpose. It's more focused on the lack of penalty of the guy that steps right into your line of fire or charges in before the grenade goes off. The only person that gets dinged is the shooter...regardless of what the other party's action was.
I dont think you've responded to what I'vd written at least 3 separate times in this thread:
With friendly fire enabled, you shouldnt be shooting that close to him in the first place.
If your line of fire is so close to your teammember, that he can jump into it before you can stop firing...
then you need to change your line of fire.
Grenades, though, would definitely seem to be a problem.
Not sure how that one can be cleaned up.
On the one hand, it would be insane to make the team immune to grenades
On the other hand... lots of frag potential there. yikes.
mm.
Maybe make a clearer team warning. When your team's grenade is on the ground, maybe the entire blast zone should light up.
Very, VERY clearly.
On the other hand, cooked grenades....
That may come under the same heading as my "line of fire" response. IE:
You have radar. Use it.
If there are friendlies ANYWHERE NEAR your target zone... dont throw a grenade there.
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INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC
Intara Direct Action
Caldari State
88
|
Posted - 2013.10.22 22:39:00 -
[162] - Quote
Quil Evrything wrote:True Adamance wrote:I am slightly concerned by how this will impact me as an HAV operator.
I drive around.... a lot of the time people get in my way. You'd think they would wise up and watch out for the 500 tonne tank rushing past.
But they don't, also LAV's like to blow them selves up against me trolling.
How will impacts affect my team mates, and will I be responsible for their deaths if they crash into me? Seems like you'll be affected just like everyone else. A high-speed (or very large) vehicle is a "deadly weapon". You're going to have to check your weapon use and hold back if your teammates are in the way. FYI, a simple solution to this would be if infantry in FW just got used to staying off the roads.
I think more appropriately as the infantry and tank should support one another and move or advance together tanks will simply have to stop rushing past, these 2 elements should work well together. This will become more evident as competition increases in fw. There are many other reasons for concern including orbitals, ff that almost kills you but doesnt then stops to let someone else finish you off. Perhaps a tk assist? So many gets you banned perhaps a few more than actual tk, but if my teammate does 75 percent of the damage just to let a reddot finish me their must be a counter. Ccp please anticipate this, because of your failure to address people who boost, use revive melee, or any other stat exploit you have created a wide open situation for this petty game killing behavior, it will quickly make fw very limited and keep vehicles out of it all together. |
Oso Peresoso
RisingSuns
Public Disorder.
670
|
Posted - 2013.10.23 20:18:00 -
[163] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:Also we want to look at letting the EVE pilot join the team voice channel to help coordinate the strike. :D
This is the right kind of thinking. However, this feature is currently sort of implemented through the existing channel system. However, its very unreliable and doesn't always work the way it should. My Eve pilot is the corp and Eve voice does not work at all with my Dust corpies. It works sometimes in a custom channel, but often only after a client restart on my Eve pilot. |
Jaysyn Larrisen
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
139
|
Posted - 2013.10.23 22:29:00 -
[164] - Quote
Quil Evrything wrote:Jaysyn Larrisen wrote:
Not sure what was ambiguous but I'll clarify; my concern about the other guy is not so much about him back shooting me on purpose. It's more focused on the lack of penalty of the guy that steps right into your line of fire or charges in before the grenade goes off. The only person that gets dinged is the shooter...regardless of what the other party's action was.
I dont think you've responded to what I'vd written at least 3 separate times in this thread: With friendly fire enabled, you shouldnt be shooting that close to him in the first place. If your line of fire is so close to your teammember, that he can jump into it before you can stop firing... then you need to change your line of fire. Grenades, though, would definitely seem to be a problem. Not sure how that one can be cleaned up. On the one hand, it would be insane to make the team immune to grenades On the other hand... lots of frag potential there. yikes. mm. Maybe make a clearer team warning. When your team's grenade is on the ground, maybe the entire blast zone should light up. Very, VERY clearly. On the other hand, cooked grenades.... That may come under the same heading as my "line of fire" response. IE: You have radar. Use it. If there are friendlies ANYWHERE NEAR your target zone... dont throw a grenade there.
I think we may be talking past each other. I buy what your saying...I think it's just not as simple as you are describing. Example, let's say my screen and reticle is clear and i'm engaging a target, the blueberry to my immediate flank (i.e. 90 degrees away from the gunline) can flash in front of me in an instant and then we have a problem. This could be from strafe dancing, dodging a grenade, just trying get in on the kill, or maybe not even noticing that I'm there. You have to be able to dynamically engage targets safely and that requires communication and situational awareness, the two items that are in short supply with non-squadmates.
Again, you make very valid points about controlling your own fire and I'm not disputing that. The bottom line is that often time the culpability in a FF event rests with both parties and a few times not with the shooter at all. I'm all about FF...just not convinced that a one way penalty that potentially could be quite steep is the way to go on this.
BTW - I like the possible grenade fixes. What's your thought on how to deal with Orbital Strikes? |
Celus Ivara
DUST University
Ivy League
121
|
Posted - 2013.10.24 01:51:00 -
[165] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:Orbital Strikes
...
Also we want to look at letting the EVE pilot join the team voice channel to help coordinate the strike. :D
Oh man, this. Do this. :) |
deepfried salad gilliam
Sanguine Knights
106
|
Posted - 2013.10.24 02:37:00 -
[166] - Quote
My biggest request would be make weapons less effective against team and allow retaliating, if someone kills me let me get revenge np penalty |
Vitharr Foebane
Blood Money Mercenaries
140
|
Posted - 2013.10.24 09:58:00 -
[167] - Quote
Quil Evrything wrote:Jaysyn Larrisen wrote:
Not sure what was ambiguous but I'll clarify; my concern about the other guy is not so much about him back shooting me on purpose. It's more focused on the lack of penalty of the guy that steps right into your line of fire or charges in before the grenade goes off. The only person that gets dinged is the shooter...regardless of what the other party's action was.
I dont think you've responded to what I'vd written at least 3 separate times in this thread: With friendly fire enabled, you shouldnt be shooting that close to him in the first place. If your line of fire is so close to your teammember, that he can jump into it before you can stop firing... then you need to change your line of fire. Grenades, though, would definitely seem to be a problem. Not sure how that one can be cleaned up. On the one hand, it would be insane to make the team immune to grenades On the other hand... lots of frag potential there. yikes. mm. Maybe make a clearer team warning. When your team's grenade is on the ground, maybe the entire blast zone should light up. Very, VERY clearly. On the other hand, cooked grenades.... That may come under the same heading as my "line of fire" response. IE: You have radar. Use it. If there are friendlies ANYWHERE NEAR your target zone... dont throw a grenade there.
Silly question for you, as a HMG heavy if a not so friendly blue berry decides to plant himself between my bullet hose and the enemy, am I supposed to allow myself to get gunned down like a b*tch? God knows I cant waddle away fast enough to escape a smg much less an ar. |
Quil Evrything
DUST University
Ivy League
274
|
Posted - 2013.10.24 14:00:00 -
[168] - Quote
Silly question for you, as a HMG heavy if a not so friendly blue berry decides to plant himself between my bullet hose and the enemy, am I supposed to allow myself to get gunned down like a b*tch? God knows I cant waddle away fast enough to escape a smg much less an ar.[/quote]
My personal guideline for this is, "what would you do in real life?"
So what's your answer? Would you deliberately gun down a squad buddy to save your own life?
I'm guessing (and hoping) "no".
So there's your answer.
If you think a little further through the issue, it may also suggest different tactics and placement for yourself,when you use your heavy suit.
(IE: dont put yourself in situations where you dont have a safe exit route)
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Quil Evrything
DUST University
Ivy League
274
|
Posted - 2013.10.24 14:06:00 -
[169] - Quote
Jaysyn Larrisen wrote:
I think we may be talking past each other. I buy what your saying...I think it's just not as simple as you are describing. Example, let's say my screen and reticle is clear and i'm engaging a target, the blueberry to my immediate flank (i.e. 90 degrees away from the gunline) can flash in front of me in an instant and then we have a problem. This could be from strafe dancing, dodging a grenade, just trying get in on the kill, or maybe not even noticing that I'm there.
....
BTW - I like the possible grenade fixes. What's your thought on how to deal with Orbital Strikes?
I think that you basically agree with what I'm saying... its just that you dont want to deal with all the consequences of what I'm saying :-)
yes, in the first example you gave, its still your fault. Or at least, it needs to be, for game purposes.
If the guy doesnt realize you are there, then the scenarios you describe are quite likely.
ANd these things happen.. he may be on a full out run, trying to escape from an enemy, and sees a friendly, so runs towards them, and.. oh, you're firi..??splat.
He can see where you are. but he cant see that you're firing.
To quote Schlock Mercenary, Maxim ... 15?
"Only you, can prevent Friendly Fire" 
As far as orbitals go...
Personally, i hate them. They're too much like a magic get-out-of-jail-free card, and I personally think they should be removed. (and they're just silly. how are the buildings still standing?!?!)
But aside from that...
I think they should stay FF enabled. I'm just not sure about assigning penalties.
I think clearly an eve player who has been called to make the shot, shouldnt have any penalty.
I'm not sure whether the squad leader should have a penalty or not.
Probably not, unless we do the suggested grenade, "light up ENTIRE AREA(for at least 5 seconds) for friendlies"
And if we do that, then no penalty should be incurred.
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Medic 1879
Forsaken Immortals
Top Men.
1155
|
Posted - 2013.10.25 01:15:00 -
[170] - Quote
Said by many in this thread TK penalties are too high and grind is jaw dropping. Apart from that I like these changes no ISK for these matches will stop players being able to afford to run proto gear 24/7 which will help the new players in pub games.
One quick question though the 4 TK's is that per match or per day? |
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THUNDERGROOVE
ZionTCD
Public Disorder.
1199
|
Posted - 2013.10.30 02:36:00 -
[171] - Quote
cSRT4 wrote:Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:I run million-ISK tanks.
What's to stop some asshat from dropping REs from a fresh alt to ruin my day?
Again and again and again? Pilots have a lot to lose from this mechanic. Far more than anyone else does. You blow up a **** ing supply depot when I'm playing on your team and it WILL happen. WILL! GUARANTEED! If you're not one of those tankers, I have no beef with you. But I WILL get my point across fairly quickly to all those asshat tankers that blow up supply depots for 50 **** ing points!
You're what's wrong with Dust.
It's not for 50 points, it's because the blues can't hold an objective let alone a depot 50 meters away. Why would I let a depot survive that's being used by 3 guys to switch to easy mode swarms?
What is a signature?
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Quil Evrything
DUST University
Ivy League
310
|
Posted - 2013.10.30 03:25:00 -
[172] - Quote
THUNDERGROOVE wrote:
You're what's wrong with Dust.
It's not for 50 points, it's because the blues can't hold an objective let alone a depot 50 meters away. Why would I let a depot survive that's being used by 3 guys to switch to easy mode swarms?
Ah, irony.
What's wrong with dust, is lack of good team play.
and by blowing up the depot, YOU are not being a good team player.
if "the blues cant hold (a depot)"... maybe its because they need tank support. So instead of just riding around getting points for *yourself*, maybe you should defend the depot, if they're sooo important to you?
Thats what team play is about. YOU, doing stuff for the team, as well as everyone else.
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
1538
|
Posted - 2013.11.08 19:14:00 -
[173] - Quote
Implement: GÇ£You break it, you pay for it!GÇ¥ |
God Almighty 666
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
3
|
Posted - 2013.11.16 13:30:00 -
[174] - Quote
I agree with the others that a team deployment needs to be implemented for FW to survive the FF onslaught that will come with a bunch of griefers and newberries that will show up in FW.My idea is to make a team deployment tab with a commander who created the team has option to kick anyone like they have in PC battles and make it like a squad tab where you can set up options of the number of members in each squad as the team is created .The squad is restricted to 6 but need 16 for a team and you can pick from squad number options like this with the ability to promote people to squad leaders and also have the commander role or ability to kick players.
6-6-4
6-5-5
4-4-4-4
3-3-3-3-4
or at least a few options like this on squad sizes
Giving the team the ability to determine what squads to take into the battle and how many are in each to form a more cohesive team unit on available options to themas far as personal goes.Since there is a squad finder mode there should be a team finder mode.i think this will help players and corps who only want to participate in FW determine who to trust in FW and possibly find new recruits for there corp when they find decent players to play with.
Also the penalty for possible accidental TKs and griefers causing you to tk is 800 games really isnt that way overboard to have to grind that many games and try not to have the same thing happen or you have to start over with all 800 games again ?I also agree squad TKs should always be forgiven as explained before the squad leaders or commander if team deploy is ever implemented can remove the at fault player. |
Argent Mordred
DUST University
Ivy League
21
|
Posted - 2013.11.20 14:49:00 -
[175] - Quote
For fratricide, can it be consider justified and automatically count for less or forgiven under certain conditions if they run out in front of you? For example, if you are firing and damaging an enemy player and a team member under a certain amount of health walks in front of you, the TK only counts for half or is forgiven. Obviously this should be restricted so that it can't be abused to shoot an enemy and then step behind a friendly and fire at him. But if I am in cover and I am hitting an enemy, then I team kill a friendly with only ten to twenty percent of his total EHP left, I think the game should acknowledge that it was probably an accident where he got in front of me. |
Quil Evrything
DUST University
Ivy League
413
|
Posted - 2013.11.20 18:28:00 -
[176] - Quote
No system can be perfect. Any system is going to either be overly on the side of penalizing "bad" shots, or too lenient about allowing "bad" shots.
Any system with any room for leniency, will have that leniency abused by griefers.
To play off your example, and imagine a lenient system;
(well, what if we make it so that you dont get dinged, if you were hitting an enemy, within 1.0 seconds of another guy 'jumping into' your line of fire?)
That just means that griefers will make sure to have an enemy in the background while they then hose off allies with their GEK at the same time.
All they have to do is move themselves to line up the double shot.
So.. I'm pushing for the penalties with no leniency.
I'll go back and repeat what I said before:
You have EVERY TEAMMATE ON YOUR TAC RADAR.
If there is ANY chance they could "jump in your line of fire".. then dont open fire.
If you are already firing, and someone comes within "jump in your line of fire" range.. STOP FIRING.
That is 100% in your control, so NO excuses.
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Suanar Daranaus
Seykal Expeditionary Group
Minmatar Republic
55
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Posted - 2013.11.20 22:27:00 -
[177] - Quote
ic rbow wrote:Friendly Fire in public matches? It's AWOX time!
What about jumping with into a friendly line of fire four times to have someone "grind about 800+ matches to get back"?
Question:
What is 'AWOX' ?
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Suanar Daranaus
Seykal Expeditionary Group
Minmatar Republic
55
|
Posted - 2013.11.20 22:28:00 -
[178] - Quote
Also, tried clicking the links in the original post and received the '404' message from them. |
Argent Mordred
DUST University
Ivy League
21
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Posted - 2013.11.21 06:51:00 -
[179] - Quote
Quil Evrything wrote:snip
Sorry about the length.
Note the fact that it requires the person to have very low health, so not lenient. Also, if you are between the enemy and the griefer, how is he supposed to hit them before he kills you?* He would have to shoot the enemy, triggering the 1.0 sec immunity from tk penalties, and then aim and kill you in 1.0 sec or less. Also, it could require you to be standing still (or at least mostly still) so that if you are under cover and shooting, and then someone runs out in front from behind your back, you are not penalized as heavily.** However, if you try to shoot an enemy and then strafe your fire into a team mate without penalty, it wouldn't be easy as the margin would be slight, and lining it up would take time.***
And I have had times where a blueberry stepped right in front of me at the exact same second as I pulled the trigger. For a real example, I had finally lined up a perfect headshot and I pulled the trigger, half a sec afterwards a knee appeared in the center of my scope right as the rifle fired. It was a pub match. I almost wished for friendly fire so he would not run out and stand in front of a crouched sniper ahead of him. I had decide to position myself in front of others on the hill, so they weren't running in front of me and getting in my way. I thought they would work around me as I wasn't getting in their way.
What about grenades? A griefer/new player (first fw battle) could just run right past after a grenade was thrown into a room or group of enemies. You would have not been spamming, but just doing your job, breaching an objective, room, or such; when a blueberry decides to throw himself past you on it. Reasonably experienced players do this on occasion. Ask Fire of Prometheus about one of the recent pc matches. I threw a grenade and then he walked right into it, despite having been five to eight feet directly behind me. I was within his LoS.
Finally lots of players are clueless. The only way to avoid any chance of someone jumping right in front of your fire would be to not shoot if in a group of more than two other players. Thus far, I have never had any major incident I can think of where I wasn't able to stop firing in time. The most TKs I have ever gotten in a PC is two or so. However, friendly blindberries seem determined to cluelessly wander into fire as I am shooting to test my reaction time. Like monkeys on a typewriter, given enough time and the amount of players, it is bound to become a problem that is a pain for a percentage of players (though possibly a sizable one.)
Unfortunately, I and everyone else in the human race has limited reaction time; and if tking penalties are too strong for minor offenses, then all it does is frustrate players by requiring grinding 50 or such matches because a few kill-crazed players wandered into their own teams orbital despite the effects warning them.
I am pretty sure if you analysed the matches, the number one thing that would be come apparent is that if more players are present, someone will mess up. It would be become a law of probability, "Wherever three or more players are gathered, it is almost assured that someone will do something more idiotic than Leeroy Jenkins."
In short, stuff does actually happen that isn't always your fault. However, there are some simple parameters that would allow the game to avoid penalizing players for that while minimizing unintended consequences.
*Hint, you are in his way. The system would work that you have to hurt an enemy then tk to be forgiven, so you can't tk and then shoot an enemy to get away free.
** Or at all, it doesn't have to be a tk or not tk, there is room for degrees.
*** Which you don't have in a firefight. Might not prevent the possibility, but if the margin is small and exceedingly difficult to do, most won't waste time but find easier ways to grief or not bother. |
Quil Evrything
DUST University
Ivy League
413
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Posted - 2013.11.21 20:27:00 -
[180] - Quote
Argent Mordred wrote:
And I have had times where a blueberry stepped right in front of me at the exact same second as I pulled the trigger.
and this exactly fits in with what I was describing. you havent said anything that makes it an exception from "you should have checked your TACNET".
You didnt bother, because you *didnt have to*
This would make it that you will have to.
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What about grenades?
already covered.
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Finally lots of players are clueless. The only way to avoid any chance of someone jumping right in front of your fire would be to not shoot if in a group of more than two other players.
That is grossly overstating.
More accurate would be, "don't group up with people you dont know have a clue"
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