DUST Search - Sticky:Factional Contract Match Changes

Quil Evrything wrote:

Ya know.. I see a bunch of whining about TKing here, but after thinking about it for a bit... it shouldnt be THAT hard to avoid.

Yes if you play the same way you do now, you're going to get banned.
Well.. Good!

The whole point of enabling friendly fire damage, is to make people play more realistically, and stop playing the way they do now, where they see a group of dots, and fire into it, never mind the color.

In real life, if you see an enemy 20m away, but you have a friendly within 10 degrees of arc... you'd better pay attention to them just as much as the enemy, and STOP FIRING, if they start heading towards your line of fire!

Now, whether they do that "accidentally", or "on purpose", really shouldnt matter. You need to take the accidental into account.
Once you're doing that, you will also take care of the deliberate.

And its not like they're enemy scouts who can pop up on your radar and "surprise" you... They will be on your radar 100% of the time!
Use Your Radar, and you'll avoid TK penalties.

At that point, the worst they can do, is reduce your effectiveness in combat. They wont get you banned, though, since you wont be firing.

Upon further thought, perhaps penalties for friendly fire should be reduced a little for longterm hit, but increased for short term.
Upon either 2 team kills, or (above some amount of team damage), the offender gets immediately ejected from the game, and banned for 1 hour.
Repeated offenses, get longer bans


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 4 post(s)
Jaysyn Larrisen OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 132	Posted - 2013.10.18 23:17:00 - [1] - Quote I pretty much am in line with the majority that the TK penalty needs to be toned way down. My recommendation is that you significantly lower the penalties to Faction Standings and institue a penalty to the actual LP earned in that specific match. That way one or two bad games, accidents, or bad apples don't crush a player for days or weeks. The short term loss will likely be plenty of incentive to achieve the effect desired. The concept of having someone actively confirm TK penalty might be a good addition. That was mentioned earlier and I think it would actually work well. If your corp buddy has a grenade bounce back and kill both of you then it doesn't really do either of you any good for him to be penalized. One thing no body mentioned yet but could be pretty significant is Orbital Strike damage... friendly fire would need to be turned on for OB support and it would be REAL easy to vaporize 3 or 4 of your own guys even if you nuke 7 bad guys. The OB strikes that EVE players bring in can be noticably more powerful than warbarge strikes. Also, if FF is turned on and I park my frigate over the battle and drop the OB that includes some TK does the EVE player get any penalties??
Jaysyn Larrisen OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 132	Posted - 2013.10.18 23:27:00 - [2] - Quote Total ISK removal with out the player market running is a dangerous option. I understand the logic that the Devs layed out but I'm very leary of this. PC is definetly a rich man's game now, FW may very well eclipse that if this isn't monitored closely. I recommend choosing from a couple different courses of action to off-set this: Option 1) have a partial ISK payout...say 50% of the current rate. That would mitigate loss and let's be real...we ARE mercenaries. We get paid with currency and and LP...not too far fetched an idea I think. Option 2) Have the Loyalty items cost adjusted so that it requries very little ISK to purchase them and the bulk of the cost is in LP. Example: Ishakone Rail Rifle costs 100 LP and 10K ISK. Similar market bought proto weapon runs you 90K ISK. The trick is that the LP payout should roughly mirror ISK payouts that we get in current games. On a seperate but related note I think that your standings should directly effect the cost of LP items. So a standing of 1 has you paying full LP and ISK price. A standing of 10 gets you 30% LP and ISK costs.
Jaysyn Larrisen OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 135	Posted - 2013.10.20 18:08:00 - [3] - Quote Quil Evrything wrote: Ya know.. I see a bunch of whining about TKing here, but after thinking about it for a bit... it shouldnt be THAT hard to avoid. Yes if you play the same way you do now, you're going to get banned. Well.. Good! The whole point of enabling friendly fire damage, is to make people play more realistically, and stop playing the way they do now, where they see a group of dots, and fire into it, never mind the color. In real life, if you see an enemy 20m away, but you have a friendly within 10 degrees of arc... you'd better pay attention to them just as much as the enemy, and STOP FIRING, if they start heading towards your line of fire! Now, whether they do that "accidentally", or "on purpose", really shouldnt matter. You need to take the accidental into account. Once you're doing that, you will also take care of the deliberate. And its not like they're enemy scouts who can pop up on your radar and "surprise" you... They will be on your radar 100% of the time! Use Your Radar, and you'll avoid TK penalties. At that point, the worst they can do, is reduce your effectiveness in combat. They wont get you banned, though, since you wont be firing. Upon further thought, perhaps penalties for friendly fire should be reduced a little for longterm hit, but increased for short term. Upon either 2 team kills, or (above some amount of team damage), the offender gets immediately ejected from the game, and banned for 1 hour. Repeated offenses, get longer bans Quilt... I don't think you ad addressing the primary concern. Most of the folks posting here probably have the awareness to check fire or make moderately smart decisions. Effectively they can control themselves... you CAN'T control the other guy. Reality check - in the real world, the majority of individual operator or small unit training that is key to preventing FF focuses heavily on not putting yourself in position to be hit by FF. The reason behind this is because ultimately you can only directly effect your own actions.
Jaysyn Larrisen OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 136	Posted - 2013.10.20 18:35:00 - [4] - Quote CCP Nullarbor wrote: Regarding friendly fire suiciding as a means of griefing, we were brainstorming an idea where selecting the punish option on the death screen would cost the person being team killed some standing or maybe ISK, but relative to their standing level. So the experienced FW players could spend some of their standings to punish the players team killing, without it affecting them too much and prevent people from suicide griefing because they wouldn't have any standings available to spend for punishment (it also being expensive at low levels). Any thoughts on something like this to help police FF punishment? Here's a crazy idea...I like it. Essentially you give the community the option to police themselves. I think this is a better start point than the ghost in the machine doling out "faction justice". I think the trick will be figuring out how to make it expensive on those that use cheap Alts to grief.
Jaysyn Larrisen OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 138	Posted - 2013.10.20 23:17:00 - [5] - Quote Quil Evrything wrote: Jaysyn Larrisen wrote: I think the trick will be figuring out how to make it expensive on those that use cheap Alts to grief. thats easy .dont allow cheap alts. I'm coming around to your way of thinking on this. I do want players to have the freedom to choose their own adventure so to speak as early ads possible but there are some pretty compelling reasons not to open the gate too early. Curious...what would a an acceptable WP threshold be for FW participation? 25k, 50k, ect...?
Jaysyn Larrisen OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 139	Posted - 2013.10.22 02:54:00 - [6] - Quote Quil Evrything wrote: I missed out on this earlier post... Jaysyn Larrisen wrote: Quil... I don't think you are addressing the primary concern. Most of the folks posting here probably have the awareness to check fire or make moderately smart decisions. Effectively they can control themselves... you CAN'T control the other guy. Reality check - in the real world, the majority of individual operator or small unit training that is key to preventing FF focuses heavily on not putting yourself in position to be hit by FF. The reason behind this is because ultimately you can only directly effect your own actions. Seems like some ambiguity in your post. Okay, you're concerned about "the other guy". What specifically about "the other guy" do you think still needs to be addressed? You getting hit in the back by him? Well, cheer up, it'll only happen a few times at best, then he'll get ejected for a long time, if not permenantly, if my recommendations are taken up. And if you're totally paranoid about your special, uber suit getting shot in the back by a punk... then okay, only run with your own little squad, away from other blue dots. It's not like they can hide from you; you know where they are. Not sure what was ambiguous but I'll clarify; my concern about the other guy is not so much about him back shooting me on purpose. It's more focused on the lack of penalty of the guy that steps right into your line of fire or charges in before the grenade goes off. The only person that gets dinged is the shooter...regardless of what the other party's action was. I started paying a bit more to potential FF incidents in the last day or so and I was a little surprised at how often I thought I might have been on involved in a FF. The vast majority of these were related to guys stepping in front of you at incredibly in opportune times. I would like to attribute most of this to lack of coms or situational awareness on their part...could also be plain old Blueberry-ness. The other thing I noticed was that orbital strikes have the potential to be pretty nasty. You can't tell everyone to back off 100 meters from the location your dropping ordinance on - ouch.
Jaysyn Larrisen OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 139	Posted - 2013.10.23 22:29:00 - [7] - Quote Quil Evrything wrote: Jaysyn Larrisen wrote: Not sure what was ambiguous but I'll clarify; my concern about the other guy is not so much about him back shooting me on purpose. It's more focused on the lack of penalty of the guy that steps right into your line of fire or charges in before the grenade goes off. The only person that gets dinged is the shooter...regardless of what the other party's action was. I dont think you've responded to what I'vd written at least 3 separate times in this thread: With friendly fire enabled, you shouldnt be shooting that close to him in the first place. If your line of fire is so close to your teammember, that he can jump into it before you can stop firing... then you need to change your line of fire. Grenades, though, would definitely seem to be a problem. Not sure how that one can be cleaned up. On the one hand, it would be insane to make the team immune to grenades On the other hand... lots of frag potential there. yikes. mm. Maybe make a clearer team warning. When your team's grenade is on the ground, maybe the entire blast zone should light up. Very, VERY clearly. On the other hand, cooked grenades.... That may come under the same heading as my "line of fire" response. IE: You have radar. Use it. If there are friendlies ANYWHERE NEAR your target zone... dont throw a grenade there. I think we may be talking past each other. I buy what your saying...I think it's just not as simple as you are describing. Example, let's say my screen and reticle is clear and i'm engaging a target, the blueberry to my immediate flank (i.e. 90 degrees away from the gunline) can flash in front of me in an instant and then we have a problem. This could be from strafe dancing, dodging a grenade, just trying get in on the kill, or maybe not even noticing that I'm there. You have to be able to dynamically engage targets safely and that requires communication and situational awareness, the two items that are in short supply with non-squadmates. Again, you make very valid points about controlling your own fire and I'm not disputing that. The bottom line is that often time the culpability in a FF event rests with both parties and a few times not with the shooter at all. I'm all about FF...just not convinced that a one way penalty that potentially could be quite steep is the way to go on this. BTW - I like the possible grenade fixes. What's your thought on how to deal with Orbital Strikes?