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How to balance AV with the vehicle changes

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Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 229	Posted - 2013.10.17 19:06:00 - [91] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Atiim wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Lv2spd2 wrote: Right now... 3 low level suits runing together with militia swarms is a fun fight against a well fit tank. Killing them is pretty rare unless they make a mistake, but can keep them close to death for plenty long enough to chase them off the map and make them recall. But you are doing something the vast majority of AV players dont do You are working as a team, you have 3 of you even tho its milita you are taking the initative, you are not trying to solo it with milita which frankly wont work even against an average pilot but 3 militia can give the pilot a suprise and if not careful the pilot can lose his tank Once you skill upto adv taking a basic tank out wont cause any problems dependent on pilot skill but you already have an advantage you work together to do a job that most ppl want to do on ther own with no support LOL basically you are saying that I should have to work together with lol berries to get something done? That's like relying on lol berries to drive your tank? And have you seen me and Lo jack the tire popper? XD I'll rely on blueberries to help take down your Loltanks when you tankers start letting blueberries drive. Till then why don't ya GET GOOD when it comes to tanks or don't drive your MLT tank in the open. And I call 'em Millitia because they drive around kill some peps and then drive into the open and then +150 LOLTank Destruction +50 Kill +50 Kill +50 Kill LOOOOOOOOOL XD GET GOOD I play in a squad and use that squad to work together so a couple of tanks dont get instagibbed I dont rely on bluedots to do anything for me because they are bad and useless which is exactly just like you I mean you cant destroy a basic tank with proto AV when the weapons do it all for you and rarely if ever miss the target Im a vehicle pilot and i use more teamwork than you Who said that is was bad at AV? LOL tanks have a survival ratio of 259:1 The only tank that has ever survived is my own, and that's cuz I was feeling generous. All I said is that AV gets hard when the game starts glitching to PC level heights, in a PUB match. Lol you ppl and your assumptions. And I have a corp squad filled with tankers and AV. Ask anybody in my corp and they will tell you how much teamwork I have. And besides murdering LOLTanks I also run logistics, which requires more teamwork than killing peps and trying to be good in LOLTanks
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1062	Posted - 2013.10.17 19:10:00 - [92] - Quote Atiim wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Atiim wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Lv2spd2 wrote: Right now... 3 low level suits runing together with militia swarms is a fun fight against a well fit tank. Killing them is pretty rare unless they make a mistake, but can keep them close to death for plenty long enough to chase them off the map and make them recall. But you are doing something the vast majority of AV players dont do You are working as a team, you have 3 of you even tho its milita you are taking the initative, you are not trying to solo it with milita which frankly wont work even against an average pilot but 3 militia can give the pilot a suprise and if not careful the pilot can lose his tank Once you skill upto adv taking a basic tank out wont cause any problems dependent on pilot skill but you already have an advantage you work together to do a job that most ppl want to do on ther own with no support LOL basically you are saying that I should have to work together with lol berries to get something done? That's like relying on lol berries to drive your tank? And have you seen me and Lo jack the tire popper? XD I'll rely on blueberries to help take down your Loltanks when you tankers start letting blueberries drive. Till then why don't ya GET GOOD when it comes to tanks or don't drive your MLT tank in the open. And I call 'em Millitia because they drive around kill some peps and then drive into the open and then +150 LOLTank Destruction +50 Kill +50 Kill +50 Kill LOOOOOOOOOL XD GET GOOD I play in a squad and use that squad to work together so a couple of tanks dont get instagibbed I dont rely on bluedots to do anything for me because they are bad and useless which is exactly just like you I mean you cant destroy a basic tank with proto AV when the weapons do it all for you and rarely if ever miss the target Im a vehicle pilot and i use more teamwork than you Who said that is was bad at AV? LOL tanks have a survival ratio of 259:1 The only tank that has ever survived is my own, and that's cuz I was feeling generous. All I said is that AV gets hard when the game starts glitching to PC level heights, in a PUB match. Lol you ppl and your assumptions. And I have a corp squad filled with tankers and AV. Ask anybody in my corp and they will tell you how much teamwork I have. And besides murdering LOLTanks I also run logistics, which requires more teamwork than killing peps and trying to be good in LOLTanks Did you pull that number out of your backside?
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 1427	Posted - 2013.10.17 19:20:00 - [93] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: 30% Proto 20% adv 10% std damage nerfs. - Easier to drop adv/proto and balance by basic vs basic Standardize Swarm launcher to 4 missiles every tier instead, adjust their damage to make up for it. - the number of missiles hasnt been a problem, its the tracking around corners and locking on through objects and firing while not looking at target and keeping lock and also jumping while getting a lock on and firing while jumping etc Increase the Assault Forge Gun's dispersion by about 10-20% Give Assault Forge guns a significant amount of kick requiring re-aiming between shots. - can deal with Reduce forge gun splash. Replace with conal splash if ever possible. - FG splash should be lower than a vehicle mounted large railgun Give PLC a sticky mechanic and damage aura. - sticky? meaning what exactly it sticks to the target and doesnt say home into the target?, anything homing is bad PLC Breech Variant - Holds the charge instead of lashing out. Slows the operator down. May justify with damage or projectile speed change. Reduction of AV grenades to 1, keep the same damage, make it impossible to restock via nano hives (as with all other grenades) Supply depots will still supply them at a slow rate. - would prefer if it had no homing mechanism, requires a direct hit on the hull for it to go off, if it misses and hit the ground disappears 1 second later, fine with no nano hive resupply and slow depot resupply, reduce damage by 50% its an AV support weapon not an AV weapon Add Burst Forge gun, add significant kick between each firing, requires longer charge and not suitable for long range attacks. No splash, decent damage, just highest damage compression in the shortest amount of time. Total damage similar to other forges. Not sure if i see the need for this one Change Assault Swarm to fire its missiles one at a time. Magazine accounts for this. Lock is not broken between firings. Semi-auto operation mode with slight delay between each firing. so tech it could fire 12missiles all at once, fastest finger 1st n all that, need numbers for missile delay between each one Breach Swarm Launcher - Reduce Lock Box Size to that of the forge gun reticle, Longer lock time, significantly more damage but less agility - fix the SL 1st Give Vehicles Multispectrum Flare Launchers. Prevents swarm launcher lock ons and tracking of active ones. - would it take a slot up? also would it need reloading or falre ammo to be bought and how long till they can be used again Give Vehicles a Density field. Prevents forge gun strikes and plasma cannon strikes from hitting the vehicle, short life span and saves from one or two shots when its up. - would it take a slot up?also would it need reloading or falre ammo to be bought and how long till they can be used again Give vehicles a mine thumper, destroys Remote explosive, proximity mines, and other mine devices in front of the vehicle. - would it take a turret slot up? Give vehicles a mine layer 'turret'. Mines are a bit visible and can be destroyed easily and take time to arm. There is a max limit on how many can be deployed (10) - are the mines AI or AV or both? Gyrostabilizer small turrets (against base vehicles left and right movement not up and down). Decrease their rate of turn. Allow third person camera for those gunning on the lav. Get rid of the camera scope. - decrease turn? why Fix desync issues. Spawn missiles further out from the tube. Give all av weapons far better trails. Give vehicles better damage zones, severely damaging one part effects the performance of the vehicle. Readjust the damage effectiveness on these zones. - thats WOT zone and requires a buff to all vehicles, also how do you fix stuff? whats the hp for each mod, how do you hit each mod or is it lucky hit? way too many problems with WOT method which makes everything alot more complicated so no
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 1427	Posted - 2013.10.17 19:23:00 - [94] - Quote Atiim wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Atiim wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Lv2spd2 wrote: Right now... 3 low level suits runing together with militia swarms is a fun fight against a well fit tank. Killing them is pretty rare unless they make a mistake, but can keep them close to death for plenty long enough to chase them off the map and make them recall. But you are doing something the vast majority of AV players dont do You are working as a team, you have 3 of you even tho its milita you are taking the initative, you are not trying to solo it with milita which frankly wont work even against an average pilot but 3 militia can give the pilot a suprise and if not careful the pilot can lose his tank Once you skill upto adv taking a basic tank out wont cause any problems dependent on pilot skill but you already have an advantage you work together to do a job that most ppl want to do on ther own with no support LOL basically you are saying that I should have to work together with lol berries to get something done? That's like relying on lol berries to drive your tank? And have you seen me and Lo jack the tire popper? XD I'll rely on blueberries to help take down your Loltanks when you tankers start letting blueberries drive. Till then why don't ya GET GOOD when it comes to tanks or don't drive your MLT tank in the open. And I call 'em Millitia because they drive around kill some peps and then drive into the open and then +150 LOLTank Destruction +50 Kill +50 Kill +50 Kill LOOOOOOOOOL XD GET GOOD I play in a squad and use that squad to work together so a couple of tanks dont get instagibbed I dont rely on bluedots to do anything for me because they are bad and useless which is exactly just like you I mean you cant destroy a basic tank with proto AV when the weapons do it all for you and rarely if ever miss the target Im a vehicle pilot and i use more teamwork than you Who said that is was bad at AV? LOL tanks have a survival ratio of 259:1 The only tank that has ever survived is my own, and that's cuz I was feeling generous. All I said is that AV gets hard when the game starts glitching to PC level heights, in a PUB match. Lol you ppl and your assumptions. And I have a corp squad filled with tankers and AV. Ask anybody in my corp and they will tell you how much teamwork I have. And besides murdering LOLTanks I also run logistics, which requires more teamwork than killing peps and trying to be good in LOLTanks Pulling a fake number out of your arse i see Game glitches to PC levels? what? lolno Logi takes more teamwork lol, i just spam uplinks and hives then rep ppl and if i can have an active scanner so i drop em with a GEK as they round the corner If you tank like you use proto AV then you must die every game to militia and what corp is that?
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 9513	Posted - 2013.10.17 19:35:00 - [95] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Did you pull that number out of your backside? I don't know where he pulled those numbers either, I know CCP has those numbers though and it does help drive some balance changes just not currently. Usually prices and valued item. Just right now most HAVs are capable of getting the magical survival number of +1 match reliably and in theory if you can survive one match you can survive a large number of matches. Most other suits give or take die at least anywhere from 1 to 5 times a match so the survival ratio quote is way out of portion its probably close to 3 to 1 survival on the prototype levels. What is another thing that makes HAVs frustrating is as an AV guy you cannot guarantee death of the quarry, no matter how well executed your plan may be its very very prone to failing to deal the needed amounts of damage. You will never get this situation with prototype infantry because a well planned militia ambush will see to a proto suit dying. The other problem is the massive amount of manpower required to kill a tank. At usual you have to dedicate nearly 1/3rd of the team in getting rid of a good tank and when the hostile field. The final factor is what I like to call the break point. How many well fitted HAVs does it take to make it impossible for the other team to come close to remotely countering regardless of gear. That answer used to be 4 back pre chromosome era. Currently its near max vehicle limits which is a good thing in particular and that line should never be crossed over to allow that scenario. And as usual the damn whole scenario keeps changing to get a good read what needs to go where and we need to be. I have already stated our game is a bit harder to balance because our tanks are not free and are not cleverly disguised glorified power-ups as many other games have it (mega size, mega speed, mega health, mega damage Rawr!) As I said before the vehicles need roles and need to be good at the base ones. I mean why else do you guys are screaming for the ADS to come back but not the logi or scout lav? Role. My thoughts on this is the following LAV is a small turret platform - designed to carry a light turret operator into battle. HAV is a Large turret platform - designed to carry a large turret operation into battle. Dropships - aerial transport. This seems odd and backwards but hear me out a bit. What defines most suits and what you expect them to do is the weapons and fitting. A scout sniper, a scout recon, a scout saboteur, all using the same suit but all relying on the light frame's mobility and high stamina to deliver the role to the field where it is needed. I feel vehicles should be the same manner that you decided to pick said vehicle and fit because the base hull has the best chances of getting that role to where its needed. This would mean the turrets themselves need roles as well with small blasters being anti-infantry close in, small rails rails for anti-infantry afar, small missiles anti-vehicle, and large blasters being anti shields, large rails anti armor, and large missiles anti-structure as their best forte's but each should be able to drift into each other roles not as effectively.
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 1429	Posted - 2013.10.17 19:43:00 - [96] - Quote I mean why else do you guys are screaming for the ADS to come back but not the logi or scout lav? ADS was faster and more agile, scout was useless, Logi LAV has a 35% base resistance passive i may add Now they are removing all passive mods and skills and taking them away I would have loved to have a Logi dropship with 35% passive at base, i would have used the hell out of it I even wanted a logi tank, no main turret but lots of slots prefitted with remote reps and enough slots to tank it out with a 35% base resistance
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 229	Posted - 2013.10.17 19:52:00 - [97] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: I mean why else do you guys are screaming for the ADS to come back but not the logi or scout lav? ADS was faster and more agile, scout was useless, Logi LAV has a 35% base resistance passive i may add Now they are removing all passive mods and skills and taking them away I would have loved to have a Logi dropship with 35% passive at base, i would have used the hell out of it I even wanted a logi tank, no main turret but lots of slots prefitted with remote reps and enough slots to tank it out with a 35% base resistance Here you go
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 1431	Posted - 2013.10.17 19:54:00 - [98] - Quote Atiim wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: I mean why else do you guys are screaming for the ADS to come back but not the logi or scout lav? ADS was faster and more agile, scout was useless, Logi LAV has a 35% base resistance passive i may add Now they are removing all passive mods and skills and taking them away I would have loved to have a Logi dropship with 35% passive at base, i would have used the hell out of it I even wanted a logi tank, no main turret but lots of slots prefitted with remote reps and enough slots to tank it out with a 35% base resistance Here you go I already did a thread months back Infantry complained yet again
Void Echo Algintal Core Gallente Federation 1844	Posted - 2013.10.17 19:56:00 - [99] - Quote Atiim wrote: LOL basically you are saying that I should have to work together with lol berries to get something done? That's like relying on lol berries to drive your tank? And have you seen me and Lo jack the tire popper? XD I'll rely on blueberries to help take down your Loltanks when you tankers start letting blueberries drive. Till then why don't ya GET GOOD when it comes to tanks or don't drive your MLT tank in the open. And I call 'em Millitia because they drive around kill some peps and then drive into the open and then +150 LOLTank Destruction +50 Kill +50 Kill +50 Kill LOOOOOOOOOL XD GET GOOD wel let bluetards drive our tanks when you infantry require 2 people to use the same dropsuit... one blue dot for movement, the other for aiming and firing. only then will we allow bluetards to drive us around and **** us over. oh and btw... you might want to notice how much support you have here.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1064	Posted - 2013.10.17 19:57:00 - [100] - Quote Atiim wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: I mean why else do you guys are screaming for the ADS to come back but not the logi or scout lav? ADS was faster and more agile, scout was useless, Logi LAV has a 35% base resistance passive i may add Now they are removing all passive mods and skills and taking them away I would have loved to have a Logi dropship with 35% passive at base, i would have used the hell out of it I even wanted a logi tank, no main turret but lots of slots prefitted with remote reps and enough slots to tank it out with a 35% base resistance Here you go I posted about this before. Get your own ideas.

Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 229	Posted - 2013.10.17 19:57:00 - [101] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Atiim wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: I mean why else do you guys are screaming for the ADS to come back but not the logi or scout lav? ADS was faster and more agile, scout was useless, Logi LAV has a 35% base resistance passive i may add Now they are removing all passive mods and skills and taking them away I would have loved to have a Logi dropship with 35% passive at base, i would have used the hell out of it I even wanted a logi tank, no main turret but lots of slots prefitted with remote reps and enough slots to tank it out with a 35% base resistance Here you go I already did a thread months back Infantry complained yet again So do I need to keep this up or have you come to your senses? And realized that I'm trolling.
The Attorney General ZionTCD 1252	Posted - 2013.10.17 19:57:00 - [102] - Quote Atiim wrote: You aren't crap for AV untill you go proto Amarr heavy frame, Dau 2 and EX 11 says you are wrong.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 9514	Posted - 2013.10.17 20:00:00 - [103] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Easier to drop adv/proto and balance by basic vs basic the number of missiles hasnt been a problem, its the tracking around corners and locking on through objects and firing while not looking at target and keeping lock and also jumping while getting a lock on and firing while jumping etc can deal with FG splash should be lower than a vehicle mounted large railgun sticky? meaning what exactly it sticks to the target and doesnt say home into the target?, anything homing is bad would prefer if it had no homing mechanism, requires a direct hit on the hull for it to go off, if it misses and hit the ground disappears 1 second later, fine with no nano hive resupply and slow depot resupply, reduce damage by 50% its an AV support weapon not an AV weapon Not sure if i see the need for this one so tech it could fire 12missiles all at once, fastest finger 1st n all that, need numbers for missile delay between each one fix the SL 1st would it take a slot up? also would it need reloading or falre ammo to be bought and how long till they can be used again would it take a slot up?also would it need reloading or falre ammo to be bought and how long till they can be used again would it take a turret slot up? are the mines AI or AV or both? decrease turn? why thats WOT zone and requires a buff to all vehicles, also how do you fix stuff? whats the hp for each mod, how do you hit each mod or is it lucky hit? way too many problems with WOT method which makes everything alot more complicated so no You balance top down. Military Grade Tanks are Tier 2, The Enforcers are Tier 3. Both where designed without standard-advanced-prototype progression in mind and are poor excuses for their what would have been respectively the advanced and prototype tiers. There are not many other weapon systems that gains 50% more damage between basic and prototype + with the damage gain between swarm launchers makes the effect that much more exaggerated. Should but it should also be conal from point of impact instead of spherical to mimic what most AV really should be doing. Where as the railgun on vehicles can retain the spherical. Sticky as in you shoot a vehicle with the plasma cannon the shot will stick to the vehicle causing damage over time. Best used on very speedy vehicles or hit and run vehicles that do not allow themselves to get shot for a long time. AV grenades need a direct contact with vehicle variant to keep the current damage levels. Homing variants should suffer damage loss. Timed grenades I do not see being valuable in anti-vehicle uses as PS2 has demonstrated such grenades are utterly worthless time and time again. Burst forge gun is more for close in ambush limited window, allows an operator to mag out before he gets killed. Basically its a fancier breach variant but instead of one single shot doing all the damage its a burst of shots instead that is probably better used against ground vehicles instead of air vehicles as the current breach is. Not at once 12 missiles over 12-24 seconds after the initial lock on. Design intent is to make a harassment weapon to scare off vehicles. Constantly nailing a pilot with missiles can drive them off. See Desync Issues - As an AV operator you will notice swarms never disappear, go through stuff, magically around corners. As a third party observer you will see swarms do all the things pilot claims from launch to target. As a target you rarely see the missiles and when you do it is doing the weird things. Three points of view three different stories = desync issues, and the story most true is the operator's. Yes you're giving up a slot to gain an immunity to a set of possible weapon systems. It could be charge based as well or cooldown cool up. It would take up the same slot as a resistance plate so you're basically trading taking less damage for taking no damage. Mine layers are a small turret unless built in. Type of mines is dependent on the launcher. Decrease rate of turn to that of a mechanical feel would help with small turret accuracy as overshooting the target is fairly common on a few vehicles, This however must be combined with the gyro tabs because the vehicle dictates where the gun is pointing far more than the operator. Not saying to follow WoT's system exactly. Just make it sensible and allow for saturation, for example shooting the same tread over and over again is not going to do much more damage to the main HP. Zones could be simplified such at large turret, treads, body, engine, wheels, small turret. AV weapons with splash would be more preferable for taking out parts while those with no splash would be more inclined to be killing the vehicle instead.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 9514	Posted - 2013.10.17 20:01:00 - [104] - Quote The Attorney General wrote: Atiim wrote: You aren't crap for AV untill you go proto Amarr heavy frame, Dau 2 and EX 11 says you are wrong. My Standard FG/SL and Sleek AV would also say you're wrong too.
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 1432	Posted - 2013.10.17 20:04:00 - [105] - Quote Atiim wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Atiim wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: I mean why else do you guys are screaming for the ADS to come back but not the logi or scout lav? ADS was faster and more agile, scout was useless, Logi LAV has a 35% base resistance passive i may add Now they are removing all passive mods and skills and taking them away I would have loved to have a Logi dropship with 35% passive at base, i would have used the hell out of it I even wanted a logi tank, no main turret but lots of slots prefitted with remote reps and enough slots to tank it out with a 35% base resistance Here you go I already did a thread months back Infantry complained yet again So do I need to keep this up or have you come to your senses? And realized that I'm trolling. This picture basically is you http://i.imgur.com/OQo4lpA.jpg
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 229	Posted - 2013.10.17 20:35:00 - [106] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: The Attorney General wrote: Atiim wrote: You aren't crap for AV untill you go proto Amarr heavy frame, Dau 2 and EX 11 says you are wrong. My Standard FG/SL and Sleek AV would also say you're wrong too. Sleek AV nades? XD They do so little in comparison to the packed variant, and if we can only carry one (per your request) then al AV nades will be useless except the packed ones. And Why would anyone use STD gear? Do you like killing tanks? Or do you just like taking 16x as long to do so
Void Echo Algintal Core Gallente Federation 1845	Posted - 2013.10.17 20:38:00 - [107] - Quote Atiim wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: The Attorney General wrote: Atiim wrote: You aren't crap for AV untill you go proto Amarr heavy frame, Dau 2 and EX 11 says you are wrong. My Standard FG/SL and Sleek AV would also say you're wrong too. Sleek AV nades? XD They do so little in comparison to the packed variant, and if we can only carry one (per your request) then al AV nades will be useless except the packed ones. And Why would anyone use STD gear? Do you like killing tanks? Or do you just like taking 16x as long to do so hes using nades like they should be used, as a support weapon, not a primary weapon.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1064	Posted - 2013.10.17 20:44:00 - [108] - Quote Atiim wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: The Attorney General wrote: Atiim wrote: You aren't crap for AV untill you go proto Amarr heavy frame, Dau 2 and EX 11 says you are wrong. My Standard FG/SL and Sleek AV would also say you're wrong too. Sleek AV nades? XD They do so little in comparison to the packed variant, and if we can only carry one (per your request) then al AV nades will be useless except the packed ones. And Why would anyone use STD gear? Do you like killing tanks? Or do you just like taking 16x as long to do so Doesn't matter if it's PRO or STD, you can't destroy tanks with PRO anyway.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 9516	Posted - 2013.10.17 20:50:00 - [109] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Atiim wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: The Attorney General wrote: Atiim wrote: You aren't crap for AV untill you go proto Amarr heavy frame, Dau 2 and EX 11 says you are wrong. My Standard FG/SL and Sleek AV would also say you're wrong too. Sleek AV nades? XD They do so little in comparison to the packed variant, and if we can only carry one (per your request) then al AV nades will be useless except the packed ones. And Why would anyone use STD gear? Do you like killing tanks? Or do you just like taking 16x as long to do so Doesn't matter if it's PRO or STD, you can't destroy tanks with PRO anyway. Most of the things I am throwing at these days are LAVs and dropships. Tanks I just nuke with the primary weapon.
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 229	Posted - 2013.10.17 21:25:00 - [110] - Quote Void Echo wrote: Atiim wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: The Attorney General wrote: Atiim wrote: You aren't crap for AV untill you go proto Amarr heavy frame, Dau 2 and EX 11 says you are wrong. My Standard FG/SL and Sleek AV would also say you're wrong too. Sleek AV nades? XD They do so little in comparison to the packed variant, and if we can only carry one (per your request) then al AV nades will be useless except the packed ones. And Why would anyone use STD gear? Do you like killing tanks? Or do you just like taking 16x as long to do so hes using nades like they should be used, as a support weapon, not a primary weapon. Ok well when I run you over and get away with 100hp because you wen't with the weaker gun (or grenade) I will mail you personally and ask if you regret using them for support as opposed to a YOU SHALL NOT PASS, denial weapon

Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1064	Posted - 2013.10.17 23:35:00 - [111] - Quote Atiim wrote: hes using nades like they should be used, as a support weapon, not a primary weapon. Ok well when I run you over and get away with 100hp because you wen't with the weaker gun (or grenade) I will mail you personally and ask if you regret using them for support as opposed to a YOU SHALL NOT PASS, denial weapon edit (because I accidentally hit post instead of preview) I remember those chromosome tanks. Those were scary. And I still know about Logi LAVs. Those things zipping at you full speed with nitrous is pee your pants scary. And I got sick of running against people with vehicles. So instead of being a butthurt scrub I decided to be a Logi LAV driver. Didn't help against other tanks. Then I became a tanker. Wasn't as efficient against entire squads of tanks. Then I tried AV. It sucked. But then I upgraded and upgraded and when I got to proto, Hmm. Getting better. Tried Lai Dais. Hmm. closer.. closer.. Got profecincy lvl 3. Perfect . I will never chose a STD or ADV when I go up against vehicles. And I will never get a sleek av grenade when the packed ones guarantee a victory. Would you bring a water gun or a Fire Truck to put out a fire? Why in gods name would you suggest using something weaker. And If I do use something weaker then why should I only carry one? Give me 5 GOOD reasons why I should use a weaker variant and risk letting them live and I'll stop going AV. And no CPU/PG is not a good reason. Mercy? Don't make me laugh.[/quote] LOL You've never been a tanker. If you had that experience, you wouldn't be so against tanks.
KING CHECKMATE AMARR IMPERIAL CRUSADERS 1884	Posted - 2013.10.18 00:02:00 - [112] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: LOL You've never been a tanker. If you had that experience, you wouldn't be so against tanks. GÖª ''You are not a tanker so your opinon doest count GÖª We (all tankers) are ALSO AV'ers so we do know what we are talking about '' This excuse is lame and its getting old and opinions based on this are ridiculously biased and obviously to be ignored. we are all playing the same game and OBVIOUSLY see stuff from a different point of view, unless you are willing to think outside YOUR box, opinions on ''balance'' are pointless. And yes, Av'ers have most of the times AV thoughts based on their experiences but so do tankers and we are both Biased. Here is when CCP must step in and decide the best for us based on the NUMBERS, not listen to our suggestions,because 1 suggestion wrongly taken = More umbalanced AV vs Vehicles....
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 9520	Posted - 2013.10.18 00:19:00 - [113] - Quote Atiim wrote: Ok well when I run you over and get away with 100hp because you wen't with the weaker gun (or grenade) I will mail you personally and ask if you regret using them for support as opposed to a YOU SHALL NOT PASS, denial weapon edit (because I accidentally hit post instead of preview) I remember those chromosome tanks. Those were scary. And I still know about Logi LAVs. Those things zipping at you full speed with nitrous is pee your pants scary. And I got sick of running against people with vehicles. So instead of being a butthurt scrub I decided to be a Logi LAV driver. Didn't help against other tanks. Then I became a tanker. Wasn't as efficient against entire squads of tanks. Then I tried AV. It sucked. But then I upgraded and upgraded and when I got to proto, Hmm. Getting better. Tried Lai Dais. Hmm. closer.. closer.. Got profecincy lvl 3. Perfect . I will never chose a STD or ADV when I go up against vehicles. And I will never get a sleek av grenade when the packed ones guarantee a victory. Would you bring a water gun or a Fire Truck to put out a fire? Why in gods name would you suggest using something weaker. And If I do use something weaker then why should I only carry one? Give me 5 GOOD reasons why I should use a weaker variant and risk letting them live and I'll stop going AV. And no CPU/PG is not a good reason. Mercy? Don't make me laugh. Trust me if you run me over its because I wasn't trying to kill you.
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 231	Posted - 2013.10.18 00:19:00 - [114] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Atiim wrote: hes using nades like they should be used, as a support weapon, not a primary weapon. Ok well when I run you over and get away with 100hp because you wen't with the weaker gun (or grenade) I will mail you personally and ask if you regret using them for support as opposed to a YOU SHALL NOT PASS, denial weapon edit (because I accidentally hit post instead of preview) I remember those chromosome tanks. Those were scary. And I still know about Logi LAVs. Those things zipping at you full speed with nitrous is pee your pants scary. And I got sick of running against people with vehicles. So instead of being a butthurt scrub I decided to be a Logi LAV driver. Didn't help against other tanks. Then I became a tanker. Wasn't as efficient against entire squads of tanks. Then I tried AV. It sucked. But then I upgraded and upgraded and when I got to proto, Hmm. Getting better. Tried Lai Dais. Hmm. closer.. closer.. Got profecincy lvl 3. Perfect . I will never chose a STD or ADV when I go up against vehicles. And I will never get a sleek av grenade when the packed ones guarantee a victory. Would you bring a water gun or a Fire Truck to put out a fire? Why in gods name would you suggest using something weaker. And If I do use something weaker then why should I only carry one? Give me 5 GOOD reasons why I should use a weaker variant and risk letting them live and I'll stop going AV. And no CPU/PG is not a good reason. Mercy? Don't make me laugh. LOL You've never been a tanker. If you had that experience, you wouldn't be so against tanks.[/quote] Actually I am a tanker, and yeah in the right hands they can be deadly and I've never had a problem and am able to survive proto FGs easily. Only FG i've been killed by is the Gatsun, and that is an Office FG, so no complaints there. Proto AV is only a problem if your dumb enough to drive in the open and expose yourself. Stop thinking that you can go survive the gates of Hell and back, and that your loltank is invincible, and your problem with AV is eliminated. And yeah saying that people who aren't tankers opinions don't matter is like saying that flaylock pistols aren't Op and HTFU your thoughts don't matter because you don't use them. But ask anyone and they'd say that they were OP for a sidearm. What if the damage for swarm launchers were increasead to 660 per shot and the proto variant had 12 swarms total? And then when you complained that they were a whole new level of OP, CCP said to shut up and your opinoin doesn't matter because your not AV. Next time, try to use logic. Though considering your loltanking skills, I'd be impressed if this was possible.
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 231	Posted - 2013.10.18 00:30:00 - [115] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Atiim wrote: Ok well when I run you over and get away with 100hp because you wen't with the weaker gun (or grenade) I will mail you personally and ask if you regret using them for support as opposed to a YOU SHALL NOT PASS, denial weapon edit (because I accidentally hit post instead of preview) I remember those chromosome tanks. Those were scary. And I still know about Logi LAVs. Those things zipping at you full speed with nitrous is pee your pants scary. And I got sick of running against people with vehicles. So instead of being a butthurt scrub I decided to be a Logi LAV driver. Didn't help against other tanks. Then I became a tanker. Wasn't as efficient against entire squads of tanks. Then I tried AV. It sucked. But then I upgraded and upgraded and when I got to proto, Hmm. Getting better. Tried Lai Dais. Hmm. closer.. closer.. Got profecincy lvl 3. Perfect . I will never chose a STD or ADV when I go up against vehicles. And I will never get a sleek av grenade when the packed ones guarantee a victory. Would you bring a water gun or a Fire Truck to put out a fire? Why in gods name would you suggest using something weaker. And If I do use something weaker then why should I only carry one? Give me 5 GOOD reasons why I should use a weaker variant and risk letting them live and I'll stop going AV. And no CPU/PG is not a good reason. Mercy? Don't make me laugh. Trust me if you run me over its because I wasn't trying to kill you. Yeah well you are an experienced player, and a CPM. If any AV gets run over or anyone with PACKED AV gets run over then yeah, they were either outta nades, or just being generous. But this is referring to me during my first two weeks of playing, where I was stomped and beaten to death by loltanks and murder taxis. I didn't know about AV nades, and I doubt any new player would know about them and reducing the SL or FG damage would insure that everybody and his grandma can stop the ever loving crap outta everybody. But I'm gonna revoke that trust from you about getting run over, because if you think that your Sleek AV nades are gonna help you while I have my F/45 Dmg Control Mod on, then not only will I run you over, but i'll drag your body all the way to your redzone and back and then start doing donuts around your body.
Void Echo Algintal Core Gallente Federation 1857	Posted - 2013.10.18 00:40:00 - [116] - Quote Atiim wrote: Ok well when I run you over and get away with 100hp because you wen't with the weaker gun (or grenade) I will mail you personally and ask if you regret using them for support as opposed to a YOU SHALL NOT PASS, denial weapon edit (because I accidentally hit post instead of preview) I remember those chromosome tanks. Those were scary. And I still know about Logi LAVs. Those things zipping at you full speed with nitrous is pee your pants scary. And I got sick of running against people with vehicles. So instead of being a butthurt scrub I decided to be a Logi LAV driver. Didn't help against other tanks. Then I became a tanker. Wasn't as efficient against entire squads of tanks. Then I tried AV. It sucked. But then I upgraded and upgraded and when I got to proto, Hmm. Getting better. Tried Lai Dais. Hmm. closer.. closer.. Got profecincy lvl 3. Perfect . I will never chose a STD or ADV when I go up against vehicles. And I will never get a sleek av grenade when the packed ones guarantee a victory. Would you bring a water gun or a Fire Truck to put out a fire? Why in gods name would you suggest using something weaker. And If I do use something weaker then why should I only carry one? Give me 5 GOOD reasons why I should use a weaker variant and risk letting them live and I'll stop going AV. And no CPU/PG is not a good reason. Mercy? Don't make me laugh. im a tanker, everyone knows that, im wont get run over, il shoot you with my railgun before you get 30m next to me. give me 5 good reasons why some prick who only spent 2 mil SP and 3K ISK should be able to solo my tank when I have over 10 mil SP skilled and I pay over 1 mil to deploy.
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 231	Posted - 2013.10.18 00:55:00 - [117] - Quote Void Echo wrote: Atiim wrote: Ok well when I run you over and get away with 100hp because you wen't with the weaker gun (or grenade) I will mail you personally and ask if you regret using them for support as opposed to a YOU SHALL NOT PASS, denial weapon edit (because I accidentally hit post instead of preview) I remember those chromosome tanks. Those were scary. And I still know about Logi LAVs. Those things zipping at you full speed with nitrous is pee your pants scary. And I got sick of running against people with vehicles. So instead of being a butthurt scrub I decided to be a Logi LAV driver. Didn't help against other tanks. Then I became a tanker. Wasn't as efficient against entire squads of tanks. Then I tried AV. It sucked. But then I upgraded and upgraded and when I got to proto, Hmm. Getting better. Tried Lai Dais. Hmm. closer.. closer.. Got profecincy lvl 3. Perfect . I will never chose a STD or ADV when I go up against vehicles. And I will never get a sleek av grenade when the packed ones guarantee a victory. Would you bring a water gun or a Fire Truck to put out a fire? Why in gods name would you suggest using something weaker. And If I do use something weaker then why should I only carry one? Give me 5 GOOD reasons why I should use a weaker variant and risk letting them live and I'll stop going AV. And no CPU/PG is not a good reason. Mercy? Don't make me laugh. im a tanker, everyone knows that, im wont get run over, il shoot you with my railgun before you get 30m next to me. give me 5 good reasons why some prick who only spent 2 mil SP and 3K ISK should be able to solo my tank when I have over 10 mil SP skilled and I pay over 1 mil to deploy. 1.) If nobody can destroy you, then that would be a 30/0 per match and a 300k isk payout, while "cheating" infantry units out of a fair game. 2.) Because being AV sacrifices a lot because you are still in a dropsuit and are still exposed to normal infantry on the ground 3.) 2 Million SP is a lot compared to 10 Million into tanking. Tanks can do anything from sniping (kinda), to assualt, to AV and more. AV (except FGs) can only be used to kill vehicles. Ever see someone kill a dropsuit with Lai Dais? 4.) Why shouldn't I be able to destroy you? What should we bring in cromo tanks and buff them to 20k armor? Nah that's too low I bet you want MCC Level health and armor. What should be able to destroy you? Should we just make you invincible like 98% of the loltanking community wants to be? 5.) Because that same prick who only Spent 2 Million SP and 77k ISK is that same prick who is gonna get whipped and beaten by the enemy infantry on the ground. 1 Million ISK per deployment please.
jerrmy12 kahoalii REAPERS REPUBLIC 72	Posted - 2013.10.18 01:16:00 - [118] - Quote Atiim wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: DS 10 wrote: No. I take it you are a fan of this method Proto AV + proto suit + proto dmg mods vs basic hull with basic mods and proto turrets Heavens forbid you actually have a challenge and maybe have to use teamwork I use basic tanks all the time when I'm low on funds. But I also happen to be Proto AV. And no. If we use standard swarms (which does the exact same damage as Millitia swarms) we would get dominated by basic hulls. I think that the problem with most tankers is that they just don't know when they should get outta there and then wonder why Proto AV hurts. Basically your saying, we should say FU to ppl who invested 2 million SP into being Proto AV and make them use Millitia swarms against tanks with 6-8k armor. No. Don't cry because you suck at tanking. you obviously can't use teamwork nor have you ever tanked, we have to get to cover every 2 seconds cuz some noob is using proto AFG accross the map. ps. use dmg mods
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 231	Posted - 2013.10.18 01:25:00 - [119] - Quote jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: Atiim wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: DS 10 wrote: No. I take it you are a fan of this method Proto AV + proto suit + proto dmg mods vs basic hull with basic mods and proto turrets Heavens forbid you actually have a challenge and maybe have to use teamwork I use basic tanks all the time when I'm low on funds. But I also happen to be Proto AV. And no. If we use standard swarms (which does the exact same damage as Millitia swarms) we would get dominated by basic hulls. I think that the problem with most tankers is that they just don't know when they should get outta there and then wonder why Proto AV hurts. Basically your saying, we should say FU to ppl who invested 2 million SP into being Proto AV and make them use Millitia swarms against tanks with 6-8k armor. No. Don't cry because you suck at tanking. you obviously can't use teamwork nor have you ever tanked, we have to get to cover every 2 seconds cuz some noob is using proto AFG accross the map. ps. use dmg mods A noob with AFG across the map huh? You obviously can't use teamwork nor have you ever ran with spider tankers/ We have to get to cover every 2 seconds cuz some noob is spraying and praying in his blaster tanked. p.s. use hardners Don't pretend that infantry don't face the same problems, and I have no problem with team work, me and my corpmates use team work against squads with tanks all the time. It's just that we have GOOD strategies and GOOD gear so we get the job done much faster. I stand by my original point; Atiim wrote: Don't cry because you suck at tanking
jerrmy12 kahoalii REAPERS REPUBLIC 72	Posted - 2013.10.18 01:27:00 - [120] - Quote Atiim wrote: The Attorney General wrote: Atiim wrote: IT IS NOT FAIR LOL, uses fire and forget scrub weapon, can't do his job with it, and wants to cry. HTFU scrub. Did you even read the OP? He wants us to use Basic/Millitia AV against a 6-7k armored hull with proto turrets? Fire and forget? Yeah unless your swarms crash into a wall or decide to glitch and go backwards (what usually happens) Lol Tankers without situational awareness and good tactics need to HTFU. Tell me one time where you were killed by proto AV and it wasn't your fault? Don't worry tankers, you will get good someday. getting forge gun sniped accross the map most places we go, even smaller spaces or a tower camping noob.



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