I use basic tanks all the time when I'm low on funds. But I also happen to be Proto AV.

And no. If we use standard swarms (which does the exact same damage as Millitia swarms) we would get dominated by basic hulls.

I think that the problem with most tankers is that they just don't know when they should get outta there and then wonder why Proto AV hurts.

Basically your saying, we should say FU to ppl who invested 2 million SP into being Proto AV and make them use Millitia swarms against tanks with 6-8k armor. No.

Don't cry because you suck at tanking.

Minimal Intellegence?

Do you know how hard iris to take down a squad of tanks?

one guy with a forge a nanohive and a tower or lav. or 2 swarmers. also 1 lolnader, use any o these 3 things and youl lock down the whole map forever from tanks. iv been on both ends of the argument, its harder to kill av than it is to kill us. it only takes 1 av guy to lock down an entire map for the whole match from a full squad of tankers, but it takes a full squad to lock down the map from any kind of av.

Do you know how frustrating it is to shoot your swarms and have it go straight for a wall?

that's good for us, do you know how frustrating it is to invest around 10 mil sp or more into a specific class that costs around 1 mil ISK just to deploy an average fitting just to have it blown up in under 6 seconds by some prick who barely put 2 mil sp into his suit that only takes less than a fraction of the ISK we need?

Basically your saying that you want to be able to kill loads of people without any challenge or AV resistance whatsoever?

no iv never said anything like that, if you look at my forum history, youl see that I want to be a viable class in this game that has survivability when going solo but much more power when I have competent squad friends around. the thing is, you guys are ******* ******** because you think requiring teamwork to kill a tank makes him godly mainly because you yourselves cant use teamwork worth **** and you know it, otherwise you wouldn't be bitching about not being able to solo us with standard and militia av.

Dude I say FU to ppl who come right in the open and expect to live long enough to get away.

dude, I say fu to people who don't have any regard for others and just want everything handed to them.

Dude if a tank is not in the open or keeps moving through cover than it is not easy, and if your dumb enough to get close enough for Lai Dais than you deserve it.

Did you even read the OP?

He wants us to use Basic/Millitia AV against a 6-7k armored hull with proto turrets?

Fire and forget? Yeah unless your swarms crash into a wall or decide to glitch and go backwards (what usually happens)


Lol Tankers without situational awareness and good tactics need to HTFU.

Tell me one time where you were killed by proto AV and it wasn't your fault?

Don't worry tankers, you will get good someday.

BAHAHAHAHAHA Blasters are CQC BAHAHAHAHAHAHA

I have seen a Blaster Turret annihilate from +75m . You tankers are just plain pathetic

Hmm that 10 Mil SP can easily be put towards other things, and tanks can do more than one thing, while all AV can do is kill tanks (except FGs, which I don't use).

What was your argument again?

BAHAHAHAHAHA Blasters are CQC BAHAHAHAHAHAHA

I have seen a Blaster Turret annihilate from +75m

Can we get a better definition of annihilation please?

Did an infantry stand out in the open on a roof top trying to forge?

Was the tanker using a stabilized blaster?

Were they in a Vayu? Or a triple damage modded Falchion with a Scattered Ion Cannon?

Was the target infantry in a scout suit?

All of these things could have an effect on why it would seem that someone got cut down at that range. None of which has anything to do with the blaster being or not being CQC.

Although, given the way that CCP defines ranges, the blaster turret is more mid range, the overall effect is quite similar.

Yes, a blaster turret can chop down an infantry at over 100m, but only if they do not move, or do not seek cover for the 5 seconds or so they are getting hit.

I've already tested this for you. Here are the results:

Ishukone Assault Forge Gun + Basic Dropsuit = 2079 HP damage

VS

Basic Armor HAV (fully specced)

Result: 5-6 volleys to destroy a Basic Armor HAV with proto assault forge.


Is there something wrong with this picture? A proto weapon vs a "basic" hull of an HAV and yet it cannot be destroyed by one volley (4 rounds) of a proto Ishukone forge. Your balance suggestions leans to the favor of tanks. Not a balance. If it takes two or more protos to take down a basic, then proto HAV's will dominate.

I'm not trying to question anyone's reasoning ability here, but wouldn't it make more sense for AV users to still get Proto AV and just have to fit it on a basic suit? If the argument is that tanks only have Proto weapons and modules but not hulls, it would seem to reason that keeping the Proto weapons across the board and limiting the shell that they are equipped to would even the playing field more.

LOL basically you are saying that I should have to work together with lol berries to get something done? That's like relying on lol berries to drive your tank?

And have you seen me and Lo jack the tire popper? XD

I'll rely on blueberries to help take down your Loltanks when you tankers start letting blueberries drive.

Till then why don't ya GET GOOD when it comes to tanks or don't drive your MLT tank in the open. And I call 'em Millitia because they drive around kill some peps and then drive into the open and then

+150 LOLTank Destruction
+50 Kill
+50 Kill
+50 Kill

LOOOOOOOOOL XD GET GOOD

Sleek AV nades?


XD They do so little in comparison to the packed variant, and if we can only carry one (per your request) then al AV nades will be useless except the packed ones.

And Why would anyone use STD gear? Do you like killing tanks? Or do you just like taking 16x as long to do so

Ok well when I run you over and get away with 100hp because you wen't with the weaker gun (or grenade) I will mail you personally and ask if you regret using them for support as opposed to a YOU SHALL NOT PASS, denial weapon

edit (because I accidentally hit post instead of preview)

I remember those chromosome tanks. Those were scary. And I still know about Logi LAVs. Those things zipping at you full speed with nitrous is pee your pants scary. And I got sick of running against people with vehicles. So instead of being a butthurt scrub I decided to be a Logi LAV driver. Didn't help against other tanks. Then I became a tanker. Wasn't as efficient against entire squads of tanks. Then I tried AV. It sucked. But then I upgraded and upgraded and when I got to proto, Hmm. Getting better. Tried Lai Dais. Hmm. closer.. closer.. Got profecincy lvl 3. Perfect .

I will never chose a STD or ADV when I go up against vehicles. And I will never get a sleek av grenade when the packed ones guarantee a victory. Would you bring a water gun or a Fire Truck to put out a fire?

Why in gods name would you suggest using something weaker. And If I do use something weaker then why should I only carry one?

Give me 5 GOOD reasons why I should use a weaker variant and risk letting them live and I'll stop going AV. And no CPU/PG is not a good reason. Mercy? Don't make me laugh.

1.) If nobody can destroy you, then that would be a 30/0 per match and a 300k isk payout, while "cheating" infantry units out of a fair game.

I rarely ever go 30/0 per match even with no av on the field. that's a stupid reason non the less, the biggest payout iv gotten from a pub match is 450k and that's because I destroyed enemy vehicles the whole match, killing infantry doesn't allow me to make a profit while tanking.

2.) Because being AV sacrifices a lot because you are still in a dropsuit and are still exposed to normal infantry on the ground

being a tanker, you sacrifice the ability to fight outside of your vehicle. when outside, we can barely hold our own against anyone unless we have enough SP to skill into infantry.

3.) 2 Million SP is a lot compared to 10 Million into tanking. Tanks can do anything from sniping (kinda), to assualt, to AV and more. AV (except FGs) can only be used to kill vehicles. Ever see someone kill a dropsuit with Lai Dais?

2 mil does not = 10 mil. tankers earn the privilege to be effective in anything thanks to the amount of personal investment we put into tanks.

4.) Why shouldn't I be able to destroy you? What should we bring in cromo tanks and buff them to 20k armor? Nah that's too low I bet you want MCC Level health and armor. What should be able to destroy you? Should we just make you invincible like 98% of the loltanking community wants to be?

why does me not wanting to be one shoted or soloed by you mean I want unlimited health? does that mean you know without a doubt that you cant use teamwork worth **** and completely suck at what you do so you automatically believe "they don't want me to one shot them so that means they want to be godmode"? I think so.


5.) Because that same prick who only Spent 2 Million SP and 77k ISK is that same prick who is gonna get whipped and beaten by the enemy infantry on the ground.

guess what genius, so do tankers that spend all their SP into tanks, tankers have to sacrifice skilling into anything else in order to complete tank basic skills. and guess what, that's ok, because your not supostu be master of everything. that's why AVnades need to be nerfed to hell or removed altogether, they do too much damage for what they are and they allow you to ignore the basic rule being that you must sacrifice in order to gain.

1 Million ISK per deployment please.

yeah, it costs around 1 mil isk to deploy a decent tank fitting, the lowest cost is around 900k isk which doesn't survive long. aks any tanker, theyl tell you how much it costs to deploy a decent tank.. if you don't believe me on that, then you truly are ignorant.

You are a lair. Mine costs 3-4.5k ISK

I don't want tanks to be paper

I call bullshit

I don't want tanks to be god

nobody does, what we want is survivability, there is a difference between survivability and godmode but you never have shown the slightest bit of intelligence on the differences.

I just don't want to have to use militia swarms against basic tanks.

then skill into AV, its your own fault for trying to go after us with militia gear, we all make sacrifices to get where we are, your no exception.
But if you could just add some salt to that popcorn....

I prefer cheddar cheese seasoning.

DO YOU PAY ATTENTION?!?!?

I USE\ PROTOTYPE SWARM LAUNCHERS AND AV GRENADES. Get that through your freaking skull.

But you want to make us use basic swarms, WHICH DOES THE SAME DAMAGE AS MLT SWARMS

And if we balance proto AV to match basic tanks then when we get ADV and PRO tanks we won't stand a chance because our gear can only take out basic tanks. You know this. You just wan't to be able to stomp with NO RESISTANCE, while making it seem just and fair.

Jimmy's rock is now smaller so it can take out Billy;s treehouse.
But then Billy's dad gives him a treehouse made with Titanium.
Jimmy tries to use the biggest rock in the yard. Billy laughs as there is nothing that can take out Billy's treehouse

That's how it would be if your plan came to surface. If you want real balance then fine. If not then GTFO!

WRAP THIS AROUND YOUR THICK HEADED SKULLS!

along those same lines why should you be able to survive our best and solo us while using our best by yourself? Because you have a tank?

Right about what?

If a tank cant gun down infantry (save from maybe an overheat) before it gets blow to pieces, then yeah the tanker does suck.

Did I say that I only use AV grenades?

When did I say I only use AV grenades?

SMH. If I'm right then, just admit it. But don't put words in my mouth or just ignore the answer completly.

Void Echo, try again. And this time use logic.

Basically you are saying that we should have to use all of our best crap, with multiple people at that. While you want to be able to solo us?

im not using a dropsuit, so yeah im superior in combat to you, if I wasn't then what would be the point in skilling into tanks? its meant to overpower you and be superior to infantry, that's logic.

So you should be able to solo us and we shouldn't? Not real balancing, that's just a gate way to stomping ppl

you guys already solo us all the ******* time, one av guy can lock down the whole map from an entire squad of tanks for the whole match, that's not balance at all.. av is an easy road to points..

Double Standards dude. Double Standards. coming from you that's a riot.. il admit I do double standards when you actually read for once.

Lets break down cost here:

A avarage STD tank runing all STD gear costs 450k (don't feed me that BS about 1M, you make it cost 1M)
My best AV fit costs 135k.

So if there are infantry on the ground that kill me (and no a pistol or spraying and praying won't help, and I lose at least 3-4 suits, then that's 540k down the crap hole.

Bottom line is, if you wan't them to cost more, then they cost more. And yeah I comparted STD tank gear to my PRO AV. and here's why:

1.) STD tanks can get the job done just as easily (involving killing infantry)
2.) STD & ADV AV gear does jack ****, (especially if you have a Gunnlogi.
3.) Using STD/ADV gear will guarantee that the tank knows where you are, and that everyone and his grandma will hunt you down, while you are tickling the tank

The fact that anyone thinks that STD & ADV AV gear works tells me that they aren't AV at all

Try Again.

Well yeah of course I'm defending lolnades, the require you to be close to the tank and in CQC, whic can be very dangerous sometimes. (If you can throw from 75m, then yeah you deserve a hit).

Next post from OP:
We nefed lolnades because we got tired of not being able to get up close and stomp everyone in our loltanks, but now these proximity explosives are so OP, oh and while we've yet to give a good reason as to why any of this stuff needs a nerf, we should ner PLCs too!

Tanks need lots of love, at their current price either buff to survivability or nerf to price. Same thing with dropships.. it should take a few peoples coordinated efforts to take out the best tank in the game. With my pro FG fitting I can take out most tanks solo, forget even needing lolnades... or do enough damage to make em run, therefore eliminating their usefulness on the battlefield. If I have the ability to hit their critical spot no tank stands a chance.

signed,

Self proclaimed forge gun extraordinaire

I've given countless reasons why av shouldn't be nerfed from before....and now also.. but someone as biased as you will never see logic or understand balance and therefore rejects anything you don't agree with..

Who is lukeboy?


If you can fix these in a sensible way then I'll be on board with you idea, and no forcing the use of basic AV 9WHIC DIES THE SAME DAMAGE AS MLT AV), is not sensible, what if I forced you to use MLT Turrets?