DUST Search - How to balance AV with the vehicle changes

All Channels

General Discussions

How to balance AV with the vehicle changes

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1052	Posted - 2013.10.17 18:19:00 - [1] - Quote DS 10 wrote: No. You need the PRO crutch to destroy STD vehicles?
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1052	Posted - 2013.10.17 18:21:00 - [2] - Quote Atiim wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: DS 10 wrote: No. I take it you are a fan of this method Proto AV + proto suit + proto dmg mods vs basic hull with basic mods and proto turrets Heavens forbid you actually have a challenge and maybe have to use teamwork I use basic tanks all the time when I'm low on funds. But I also happen to be Proto AV. And no. If we use standard swarms (which does the exact same damage as Millitia swarms) we would get dominated by basic hulls. I think that the problem with most tankers is that they just don't know when they should get outta there and then wonder why Proto AV hurts. Basically your saying, we should say FU to ppl who invested 2 million SP into being Proto AV and make them use Millitia swarms against tanks with 6-8k armor. No. Don't cry because you suck at tanking. Lol like we know when somebody spawns in a PRO Cal suit with 5 damage mods and a Wiyrkomi swarm. We know to get out of there after we get hit twice, because you know, lock on and fire got a huge buff.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1052	Posted - 2013.10.17 18:22:00 - [3] - Quote Ryme Intrinseca wrote: Tankers would love complex module fitting costs, e.g.: INFANTRY Basic Armour Repairer CPU 20 PG 1 Complex Armour Repairer CPU 45 PG 11 (2.25CPU, 11PG compared to basic) VEHICLES Heavy Armour Repair Unit CPU 26 PG 1,120 Complex Heavy Armour Repair Unit CPU 58.5 PG 12,320 (2.25CPU, 11PG compared to basic) Where are you getting 12,000 PG from?
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1052	Posted - 2013.10.17 18:24:00 - [4] - Quote Atiim wrote: DS 10 wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: DS 10 wrote: No. I take it you are a fan of this method Proto AV + proto suit + proto dmg mods vs basic hull with basic mods and proto turrets Heavens forbid you actually have a challenge and maybe have to use teamwork Close. IAFG + Complex Damage Mods + Advanced Frame. You can blame LLAVs for all the high meta AV gear in the game right now. Nah you need to do it this way IA Swarm Launcher Proficency lvl 3 2 Complex Damage mods Basic Precicon Enhancers (So you can lock on to railgun tanks) Lai Dai Packed AV Grenades K-4 Nanohives KLO-5 Scrambler Pistol or M512-A SMG Fit your low power slots however you want, but you may need a CPU/PG boost. Make sure that you have a backup weapon incase the guy jumps out the tank. Double locking AV weapons, so hard to use.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1057	Posted - 2013.10.17 18:30:00 - [5] - Quote Atiim wrote: Minimal Intellegence? Well.... yeah. Tankers have suffered numerous back to back nerfs, while infantry have had back to back buffs to AV. Infantry still complains about tanks being OP, so what does it boil down to? Tankers still overcoming the odds to make tanks viable, thus using superior intelligence. Do you know how hard iris to take down a squad of tanks? = It's not fair when tankers use teamwork!!!!! Do you know how frustrating it is to shoot your swarms and have it go straight for a wall? = It's not fair that some vehicles can evade lock on swarms!!!!!! Basically your saying that you want to be able to kill loads of people without any challenge or AV resistance whatsoever? = Again... STD hull, STD mods and PRO turret vs STD AV weapon, complex DMG mods and a PRO suit. Dude I say FU to ppl who come right in the open and expect to live long enough to get away. So how do you expect any vehicle to get from point A to point B? Do you even drive? Maybe you should relinquish your driver's license because a tsunami might take out a highway.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1057	Posted - 2013.10.17 18:34:00 - [6] - Quote Atiim wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: DS 10 wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: DS 10 wrote: No. I take it you are a fan of this method Proto AV + proto suit + proto dmg mods vs basic hull with basic mods and proto turrets Heavens forbid you actually have a challenge and maybe have to use teamwork Close. IAFG + Complex Damage Mods + Advanced Frame. You can blame LLAVs for all the high meta AV gear in the game right now. No i can blame CCP from taking skills from pilots which added more shield/armor hp and giving it as a general buff to all vehicles standard HP so standard scrub got more base hp where as back in the day a pilot would have these skills and a non pilot wouldnt thus you can tell the difference It started from that, then the LLAV having a good base resistance but required at least some SP into it and ISK to run it, hell i went level 5 in it and had resitance of 60% but also i used the best mods Its still more tanker than my tank is now and the logi DS didnt even get a hp buff at all and didnt have the base resistance that the LLAV had But all logi vehicles are getting removed so we have lost 12 vehicles when the vehicle rebalance comes into place Anyway back to the point Basic AV with proto suit and mods vs basic hull vs proto mods and turrets - seems fair Yeah are you incapable of wrapping this around your thick headed skull? IT IS NOT FAIR BASIC AV DOES THE SAME DAMAGE AS MIILITIA AV Do you hear yourself? Proto suit vs Proto turret jump in front of an 80GJ Particle Ion Cannon and see who wins. Thg tank or dropsuit? Basically you want us to use Millitia AV against a basic tank with proto turrets. A basic tank can easily get 6k Armor and nothing would take that down with Millitia AV A dropsuit vs a tank? 800 armor vs 6000 armor. Yeah not fair Well why are you jumping in front of a tank? Don't you know that if you have the time, you should circle for the tank's weak spot to do more damage? You think AV is only effective in CQC? Swarms bend around 2 corners, and you can throw AV grenades around corners and over low walls. Again, why are you getting in front of a tank?
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1057	Posted - 2013.10.17 18:35:00 - [7] - Quote IceShifter Childhaspawn wrote: I am not a tanker, but I kill them often. I see that we have two types of tankers on the field 1st rate: Maintain situational awareness Throttle their modules, knowing when best to use them and when to let them cool down. Hit and run, or pick their battles Use squads and/ or tank buddies to dominate the WP and the battle. 2nd rate: Charge into battle Pop every rep and resistance module when they first take fire. -Any fire. Charge into the middle of a firefight.... and linger. Solo -Often When I see a ______ tanker, I think ______ ---1st rate --- I will probably die often just being around them. I wont engage without squad support or a carefully laid trap. Why waste isk? ---2nd rate--- When the forge gunners don't get them first. I will kill them easily -aV grenades, Swarms, Proximity mines on the road (Good Tankers rarely drive on a paved road.), or fluxes and a mass driver. TL;DR Its not the aV. Its your tactics. Thank you for the reasonable response.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1057	Posted - 2013.10.17 18:37:00 - [8] - Quote Atiim wrote: Dude if a tank is not in the open or keeps moving through cover than it is not easy, and if your dumb enough to get close enough for Lai Dais than you deserve it. Because we know Jimmy Reddot is carrying packed Lai Dais beforehand.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1058	Posted - 2013.10.17 18:41:00 - [9] - Quote Atiim wrote: The Attorney General wrote: Atiim wrote: IT IS NOT FAIR LOL, uses fire and forget scrub weapon, can't do his job with it, and wants to cry. HTFU scrub. Did you even read the OP? He wants us to use Basic/Millitia AV against a 6-7k armored hull with proto turrets? Fire and forget? Yeah unless your swarms crash into a wall or decide to glitch and go backwards (what usually happens) Lol Tankers without situational awareness and good tactics need to HTFU. Tell me one time where you were killed by proto AV and it wasn't your fault? Don't worry tankers, you will get good someday. Did you even look at the proposed numbers? The 180mm plates are being taken away, and the best 120mm plate will give us less than 2000 armor. That might leave room for an ADV turret, and definitely leaves room for one hardener and onepassive repper. The days of a 6753 armor Madrugar with a heavy IG-L are going to go away. I'm pretty sure you didn't look at any of the stats.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1058	Posted - 2013.10.17 18:44:00 - [10] - Quote ReGnYuM wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: No. Why do you jump out in CQC range of a blaster turret? BAHAHAHAHAHA Blasters are CQC BAHAHAHAHAHAHA I have seen a Blaster Turret annihilate from +75m . You tankers are just plain pathetic[/quote] Says the guy complaining that his one narrow role doesn't net as much WP as a logistics does.

Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1058	Posted - 2013.10.17 18:46:00 - [11] - Quote Atiim wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Atiim wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: DS 10 wrote: No. I take it you are a fan of this method Proto AV + proto suit + proto dmg mods vs basic hull with basic mods and proto turrets Heavens forbid you actually have a challenge and maybe have to use teamwork I use basic tanks all the time when I'm low on funds. But I also happen to be Proto AV. And no. If we use standard swarms (which does the exact same damage as Millitia swarms) we would get dominated by basic hulls. I think that the problem with most tankers is that they just don't know when they should get outta there and then wonder why Proto AV hurts. Basically your saying, we should say FU to ppl who invested 2 million SP into being Proto AV and make them use Millitia swarms against tanks with 6-8k armor. No. Don't cry because you suck at tanking. PC tanker here, all i play against is proto AV, i bet you are an ambush tanker I actually want to see basic AV vs a basic hull for once since we wont see proto hulls for quite some time anyways So what if it takes 2ppl with basic AV to kill that basic tank, are ppl that afraid of teamwork? i have to use teamwork so i just dont get alpha'd by proto AV Also you are wrong, after the vehicle changes tanks will start with around 5k HP, maybe another 1k added if they use extenders/plates but with only 3 slots for your tank pilots may skip the extra hp for something else, 8k lol no resistances yea no 2million SP for proto AV so hard, how about 10+mil to get a basic tank and basic mods we have now just to survive against proto AV Hmm that 10 Mil SP can easily be put towards other things, and tanks can do more than one thing, while all AV can do is kill tanks (except FGs, which I don't use). What was your argument again? LOL So you admit you don't use AV that requires aim. That explains.... pretty much everything. 10mil SP could be put towards what, protostomping noobs with a Duvolle? No, I'll keep my 10mil SP in something you can't kill with everything PRO. What was your argument again?
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1060	Posted - 2013.10.17 18:52:00 - [12] - Quote Atiim wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Atiim wrote: The Attorney General wrote: Atiim wrote: IT IS NOT FAIR LOL, uses fire and forget scrub weapon, can't do his job with it, and wants to cry. HTFU scrub. Did you even read the OP? He wants us to use Basic/Millitia AV against a 6-7k armored hull with proto turrets? Fire and forget? Yeah unless your swarms crash into a wall or decide to glitch and go backwards (what usually happens) Lol Tankers without situational awareness and good tactics need to HTFU. Tell me one time where you were killed by proto AV and it wasn't your fault? Don't worry tankers, you will get good someday. I love hearing double standards from infantry players You complain basic AV vs a basic tank with proto mods and turrets even tho you can use proto dmg mods and on a proto suit to fit more dmg mods but of course you ignore that to suit your argument But you like using proto AV and proto mods with a proto suit to kill a basic vehicle with basic mods and a proto turret but of course that is fair You are a bad player, you said it yourself you find it hard to kill a tank with lolprotoswarms and lollaidai av nades So i expect a bad player like yourself to struggle with any kind of fairness because if you cant kill a basic tank with basic mods using proto AV you prob dont stand a chance in killing a basic tank with basic AV because you are that bad, im suprised you know what end the missiles come out of Question, when your in a Tank vs Tank fight would it Mae you angry if you died because your shots would either dive staight towards a wall or glitch up so bad that they fly backwards or just run around in circle? And yeah I use a proto AV against basic tanks? That's common sense. If you were in your proto suit and you saw somebody in a STD suit would you kill him, or go to a supply depot to kill him with your basic suit? I love hearing stupid posts and requests from tankers Half the time rail shots don't hit, so it is a matter of life and death for us at range against another tank.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1060	Posted - 2013.10.17 18:55:00 - [13] - Quote Atiim wrote: The Attorney General wrote: Atiim wrote: Question, when your in a Tank vs Tank fight would it Mae you angry if you died because your shots would either dive staight towards a wall or glitch up so bad that they fly backwards or just run around in circle? Doesn't happen. Stop making up excuses for you not being able to use a tracking weapon properly. If 90% of the playerbase can roll around like rambo popping tanks with swarms, but you can't, that means there is something wrong with you. Have you ever used swarms? Most of us got 50 free Haywires. I've used them, and they're pathetically easy to use.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1060	Posted - 2013.10.17 18:57:00 - [14] - Quote Jake Diesel wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: With vehicles we just have the basic hulls but now with prototype modules and we keep the prototype turrets The turrets themselves have also gone back to basics and do no have any variations, so fragmented/cycled missile launchers are gone and same with blaster/railgun variations So we have a basic hull with possible proto turrets/mods provided we can fit them So AV needs to go through the same gutting and lose all varients (breach/assault) and also lose the adv/proto AV weapons so it is basic AV vs basic hull Now before you complain about basic hulls having access to proto modules, you still have access to proto damage modules Also with proto turrets, AV players can still use proto suits So overall the fight could look like this Basic hull + adv/proto modules + adv/proto turrets vs adv/proto dropsuit + adv/proto damage mods + basic AV weapon Then give it a good month or 2 of testing to get feedback and stats from PC then add in adv hulls and AV weapons and repeat and then add in proto hulls and AV weapons I've already tested this for you. Here are the results: Ishukone Assault Forge Gun + Basic Dropsuit = 2079 HP damage VS Basic Armor HAV (fully specced) Result: 5-6 volleys to destroy a Basic Armor HAV with proto assault forge. Is there something wrong with this picture? A proto weapon vs a "basic" hull of an HAV and yet it cannot be destroyed by one volley (4 rounds) of a proto Ishukone forge. Your balance suggestions leans to the favor of tanks. Not a balance. If it takes two or more protos to take down a basic, then proto HAV's will dominate. Why are you having so much trouble taking down a tank with a PRO forge? I destroyed Bob in 4 shots with my Ishukone.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1062	Posted - 2013.10.17 18:59:00 - [15] - Quote Delta 749 wrote: Assault Chileanme wrote: I'm not trying to question anyone's reasoning ability here, but wouldn't it make more sense for AV users to still get Proto AV and just have to fit it on a basic suit? If the argument is that tanks only have Proto weapons and modules but not hulls, it would seem to reason that keeping the Proto weapons across the board and limiting the shell that they are equipped to would even the playing field more. No see you are being reasonable and using logic To really understand where tankers are coming from you need to shove a pineapple up your ass to experience the same amount of butt hurt they are Inb4 Taka and Void start rambling about how this is a crutch and if you die you must play better when I have personally see these guys play and they both make a bonehead basic mistake, they over extend and go without support Drive by runs work so much better guys and parking yourself next to a CRU or something and expecting not to get blown up, well really who needs to play better Oh and as for the "Waaah we spent 10 million SP" did you guys ever stop and look at the skill screen and actually compare costs or did you go "Well this one weapon skill is at 3x so that means thats all you need" I mean hell if thats what you did your main turret skill has the same SP cost but you wouldnt say only getting the turret is what matters on a tank fitting right, just like how only having the weapon is not part of a full AV fitting Your opinion means nothing to anybody.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1062	Posted - 2013.10.17 19:03:00 - [16] - Quote Atiim wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Lv2spd2 wrote: Right now... 3 low level suits runing together with militia swarms is a fun fight against a well fit tank. Killing them is pretty rare unless they make a mistake, but can keep them close to death for plenty long enough to chase them off the map and make them recall. But you are doing something the vast majority of AV players dont do You are working as a team, you have 3 of you even tho its milita you are taking the initative, you are not trying to solo it with milita which frankly wont work even against an average pilot but 3 militia can give the pilot a suprise and if not careful the pilot can lose his tank Once you skill upto adv taking a basic tank out wont cause any problems dependent on pilot skill but you already have an advantage you work together to do a job that most ppl want to do on ther own with no support LIES When I first got my CBR7 I thought that I was the best around, and no tank could ever bring me down! But then I met CEOPrex CloneA's derpship and got whooped. You aren't crap for AV untill you go proto So you were trying to solo a vehicle that could easily evade your swarms?
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1062	Posted - 2013.10.17 19:06:00 - [17] - Quote Atiim wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Lv2spd2 wrote: Right now... 3 low level suits runing together with militia swarms is a fun fight against a well fit tank. Killing them is pretty rare unless they make a mistake, but can keep them close to death for plenty long enough to chase them off the map and make them recall. But you are doing something the vast majority of AV players dont do You are working as a team, you have 3 of you even tho its milita you are taking the initative, you are not trying to solo it with milita which frankly wont work even against an average pilot but 3 militia can give the pilot a suprise and if not careful the pilot can lose his tank Once you skill upto adv taking a basic tank out wont cause any problems dependent on pilot skill but you already have an advantage you work together to do a job that most ppl want to do on ther own with no support LOL basically you are saying that I should have to work together with lol berries to get something done? That's like relying on lol berries to drive your tank? And have you seen me and Lo jack the tire popper? XD I'll rely on blueberries to help take down your Loltanks when you tankers start letting blueberries drive. Till then why don't ya GET GOOD when it comes to tanks or don't drive your MLT tank in the open. And I call 'em Millitia because they drive around kill some peps and then drive into the open and then +150 LOLTank Destruction +50 Kill +50 Kill +50 Kill LOOOOOOOOOL XD GET GOOD LOL AV > tank. Get on our level.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1062	Posted - 2013.10.17 19:10:00 - [18] - Quote Atiim wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Atiim wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Lv2spd2 wrote: Right now... 3 low level suits runing together with militia swarms is a fun fight against a well fit tank. Killing them is pretty rare unless they make a mistake, but can keep them close to death for plenty long enough to chase them off the map and make them recall. But you are doing something the vast majority of AV players dont do You are working as a team, you have 3 of you even tho its milita you are taking the initative, you are not trying to solo it with milita which frankly wont work even against an average pilot but 3 militia can give the pilot a suprise and if not careful the pilot can lose his tank Once you skill upto adv taking a basic tank out wont cause any problems dependent on pilot skill but you already have an advantage you work together to do a job that most ppl want to do on ther own with no support LOL basically you are saying that I should have to work together with lol berries to get something done? That's like relying on lol berries to drive your tank? And have you seen me and Lo jack the tire popper? XD I'll rely on blueberries to help take down your Loltanks when you tankers start letting blueberries drive. Till then why don't ya GET GOOD when it comes to tanks or don't drive your MLT tank in the open. And I call 'em Millitia because they drive around kill some peps and then drive into the open and then +150 LOLTank Destruction +50 Kill +50 Kill +50 Kill LOOOOOOOOOL XD GET GOOD I play in a squad and use that squad to work together so a couple of tanks dont get instagibbed I dont rely on bluedots to do anything for me because they are bad and useless which is exactly just like you I mean you cant destroy a basic tank with proto AV when the weapons do it all for you and rarely if ever miss the target Im a vehicle pilot and i use more teamwork than you Who said that is was bad at AV? LOL tanks have a survival ratio of 259:1 The only tank that has ever survived is my own, and that's cuz I was feeling generous. All I said is that AV gets hard when the game starts glitching to PC level heights, in a PUB match. Lol you ppl and your assumptions. And I have a corp squad filled with tankers and AV. Ask anybody in my corp and they will tell you how much teamwork I have. And besides murdering LOLTanks I also run logistics, which requires more teamwork than killing peps and trying to be good in LOLTanks Did you pull that number out of your backside?
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1064	Posted - 2013.10.17 19:57:00 - [19] - Quote Atiim wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: I mean why else do you guys are screaming for the ADS to come back but not the logi or scout lav? ADS was faster and more agile, scout was useless, Logi LAV has a 35% base resistance passive i may add Now they are removing all passive mods and skills and taking them away I would have loved to have a Logi dropship with 35% passive at base, i would have used the hell out of it I even wanted a logi tank, no main turret but lots of slots prefitted with remote reps and enough slots to tank it out with a 35% base resistance Here you go I posted about this before. Get your own ideas.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1064	Posted - 2013.10.17 20:44:00 - [20] - Quote Atiim wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: The Attorney General wrote: Atiim wrote: You aren't crap for AV untill you go proto Amarr heavy frame, Dau 2 and EX 11 says you are wrong. My Standard FG/SL and Sleek AV would also say you're wrong too. Sleek AV nades? XD They do so little in comparison to the packed variant, and if we can only carry one (per your request) then al AV nades will be useless except the packed ones. And Why would anyone use STD gear? Do you like killing tanks? Or do you just like taking 16x as long to do so Doesn't matter if it's PRO or STD, you can't destroy tanks with PRO anyway.

Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1064	Posted - 2013.10.17 23:35:00 - [21] - Quote Atiim wrote: hes using nades like they should be used, as a support weapon, not a primary weapon. Ok well when I run you over and get away with 100hp because you wen't with the weaker gun (or grenade) I will mail you personally and ask if you regret using them for support as opposed to a YOU SHALL NOT PASS, denial weapon edit (because I accidentally hit post instead of preview) I remember those chromosome tanks. Those were scary. And I still know about Logi LAVs. Those things zipping at you full speed with nitrous is pee your pants scary. And I got sick of running against people with vehicles. So instead of being a butthurt scrub I decided to be a Logi LAV driver. Didn't help against other tanks. Then I became a tanker. Wasn't as efficient against entire squads of tanks. Then I tried AV. It sucked. But then I upgraded and upgraded and when I got to proto, Hmm. Getting better. Tried Lai Dais. Hmm. closer.. closer.. Got profecincy lvl 3. Perfect . I will never chose a STD or ADV when I go up against vehicles. And I will never get a sleek av grenade when the packed ones guarantee a victory. Would you bring a water gun or a Fire Truck to put out a fire? Why in gods name would you suggest using something weaker. And If I do use something weaker then why should I only carry one? Give me 5 GOOD reasons why I should use a weaker variant and risk letting them live and I'll stop going AV. And no CPU/PG is not a good reason. Mercy? Don't make me laugh.[/quote] LOL You've never been a tanker. If you had that experience, you wouldn't be so against tanks.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1064	Posted - 2013.10.18 01:39:00 - [22] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: LOL You've never been a tanker. If you had that experience, you wouldn't be so against tanks. GÖª ''You are not a tanker so your opinon doest count GÖª We (all tankers) are ALSO AV'ers so we do know what we are talking about '' This excuse is lame and its getting old and opinions based on this are ridiculously biased and obviously to be ignored. we are all playing the same game and OBVIOUSLY see stuff from a different point of view, unless you are willing to think outside YOUR box, opinions on ''balance'' are pointless. And yes, Av'ers have most of the times AV thoughts based on their experiences but so do tankers and we are both Biased. Here is when CCP must step in and decide the best for us based on the NUMBERS, not listen to our suggestions,because 1 suggestion wrongly taken = More umbalanced AV vs Vehicles.... So if we're both sides of the coin, how does our opinion not count? You don't make any sense.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1064	Posted - 2013.10.18 02:04:00 - [23] - Quote Atiim wrote: Void Echo wrote: Atiim wrote: Ok well when I run you over and get away with 100hp because you wen't with the weaker gun (or grenade) I will mail you personally and ask if you regret using them for support as opposed to a YOU SHALL NOT PASS, denial weapon edit (because I accidentally hit post instead of preview) I remember those chromosome tanks. Those were scary. And I still know about Logi LAVs. Those things zipping at you full speed with nitrous is pee your pants scary. And I got sick of running against people with vehicles. So instead of being a butthurt scrub I decided to be a Logi LAV driver. Didn't help against other tanks. Then I became a tanker. Wasn't as efficient against entire squads of tanks. Then I tried AV. It sucked. But then I upgraded and upgraded and when I got to proto, Hmm. Getting better. Tried Lai Dais. Hmm. closer.. closer.. Got profecincy lvl 3. Perfect . I will never chose a STD or ADV when I go up against vehicles. And I will never get a sleek av grenade when the packed ones guarantee a victory. Would you bring a water gun or a Fire Truck to put out a fire? Why in gods name would you suggest using something weaker. And If I do use something weaker then why should I only carry one? Give me 5 GOOD reasons why I should use a weaker variant and risk letting them live and I'll stop going AV. And no CPU/PG is not a good reason. Mercy? Don't make me laugh. im a tanker, everyone knows that, im wont get run over, il shoot you with my railgun before you get 30m next to me. give me 5 good reasons why some prick who only spent 2 mil SP and 3K ISK should be able to solo my tank when I have over 10 mil SP skilled and I pay over 1 mil to deploy. 1.) If nobody can destroy you, then that would be a 30/0 per match and a 300k isk payout, while "cheating" infantry units out of a fair game. 2.) Because being AV sacrifices a lot because you are still in a dropsuit and are still exposed to normal infantry on the ground 3.) 2 Million SP is a lot compared to 10 Million into tanking. Tanks can do anything from sniping (kinda), to assualt, to AV and more. AV (except FGs) can only be used to kill vehicles. Ever see someone kill a dropsuit with Lai Dais? 4.) Why shouldn't I be able to destroy you? What should we bring in cromo tanks and buff them to 20k armor? Nah that's too low I bet you want MCC Level health and armor. What should be able to destroy you? Should we just make you invincible like 98% of the loltanking community wants to be? 5.) Because that same prick who only Spent 2 Million SP and 77k ISK is that same prick who is gonna get whipped and beaten by the enemy infantry on the ground. 1 Million ISK per deployment please. What, you think good tanks don't cost 1mil ISK? See, I told you you've never tanked.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1064	Posted - 2013.10.18 02:05:00 - [24] - Quote Atiim wrote: True Adamance wrote: Atiim wrote: True Adamance wrote: Atiim wrote: I use basic tanks all the time when I'm low on funds. Arrighty duel me in your basic MLT tanks, bring it tank to tank. I want to fight something! MLT Tanks? Umm. No I use madrugars. When I said basic tank I meant a tank with basic gear. XD Millitia Tanks. I freaking take those things out with mass drivers edit: Sure I'll go tank vs tank. But don't cry when your hull gets smashed with Lai Dais So basically what you are saying you would do is go tank to tank, at the first sign of loss you would *** out, and run AV. ***** hell you have no honour sir. Retracted my offer. I have more skilled and more honourable players to fight. ... Have you read the my replies from other people? Teamwork?!?! I 1v1 you while my squad beats you to death with AV. It's what normally happens when I tank vs tank. Hey it was the tankers who said that they wanted to see more teamwork outta AV. Irony hurts doesn't it? XD And it's hard to find honourable people in this game. Honorable people however is a different story. AV says they shouldn't have to use teamwork, all while saying tankers must use teamwork to survive. Wonderful double standards.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1064	Posted - 2013.10.18 02:12:00 - [25] - Quote Atiim wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: KING CHECKMATE wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: LOL You've never been a tanker. If you had that experience, you wouldn't be so against tanks. GÖª ''You are not a tanker so your opinon doest count GÖª We (all tankers) are ALSO AV'ers so we do know what we are talking about '' This excuse is lame and its getting old and opinions based on this are ridiculously biased and obviously to be ignored. we are all playing the same game and OBVIOUSLY see stuff from a different point of view, unless you are willing to think outside YOUR box, opinions on ''balance'' are pointless. And yes, Av'ers have most of the times AV thoughts based on their experiences but so do tankers and we are both Biased. Here is when CCP must step in and decide the best for us based on the NUMBERS, not listen to our suggestions,because 1 suggestion wrongly taken = More umbalanced AV vs Vehicles.... So if we're both sides of the coin, how does our opinion not count? You don't make any sense. He's saying that none of our opinions should count, because we all have a bias in this argument No, I'm pretty sure he's taking it to a personal level.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1064	Posted - 2013.10.18 02:24:00 - [26] - Quote Atiim wrote: Yep double standards FTW. I once rage a PUB chat a few months ago from I guy who's tank I destroyed It basically said that I'm a no good f***ing scrub who uses lolswarms against loltanks.He said that I should be forced to use teamwork to take me down, and that I use noob tubes and all that other stuff. I saw the same guy a few days later and decided to troll him some more by having 2 of my friends come with me to take him out. He charged right into us and got pounded by 12 Lai Dais. I mailed him and asked if I should use still use teamwork. I think he blocked me after that. Tankers rage even harder if they encounter a full squad of lolswarms, yet have the nerve to cry about using teamwork should be mandatory, as if everybody has GOOD and when I say it, I mean GOOD AV. i only say that we shouldn't always need teamwork because not everyone has GOOD AV. We both adhere to double standards, but I have reasoning behind mine. Loltankers (most of them) are just plain hypocritical. But aren't we all hypocrites in New Eden? Because you're still using crutch weapons. I can at least respect forge gunners on ground level because they play a dangerous game of cat and mouse, and have to aim their weapon to destroy me.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1069	Posted - 2013.10.18 16:35:00 - [27] - Quote Atiim wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Atiim wrote: Void Echo wrote: Atiim wrote: Ok well when I run you over and get away with 100hp because you wen't with the weaker gun (or grenade) I will mail you personally and ask if you regret using them for support as opposed to a YOU SHALL NOT PASS, denial weapon edit (because I accidentally hit post instead of preview) I remember those chromosome tanks. Those were scary. And I still know about Logi LAVs. Those things zipping at you full speed with nitrous is pee your pants scary. And I got sick of running against people with vehicles. So instead of being a butthurt scrub I decided to be a Logi LAV driver. Didn't help against other tanks. Then I became a tanker. Wasn't as efficient against entire squads of tanks. Then I tried AV. It sucked. But then I upgraded and upgraded and when I got to proto, Hmm. Getting better. Tried Lai Dais. Hmm. closer.. closer.. Got profecincy lvl 3. Perfect . I will never chose a STD or ADV when I go up against vehicles. And I will never get a sleek av grenade when the packed ones guarantee a victory. Would you bring a water gun or a Fire Truck to put out a fire? Why in gods name would you suggest using something weaker. And If I do use something weaker then why should I only carry one? Give me 5 GOOD reasons why I should use a weaker variant and risk letting them live and I'll stop going AV. And no CPU/PG is not a good reason. Mercy? Don't make me laugh. im a tanker, everyone knows that, im wont get run over, il shoot you with my railgun before you get 30m next to me. give me 5 good reasons why some prick who only spent 2 mil SP and 3K ISK should be able to solo my tank when I have over 10 mil SP skilled and I pay over 1 mil to deploy. 1.) If nobody can destroy you, then that would be a 30/0 per match and a 300k isk payout, while "cheating" infantry units out of a fair game. 2.) Because being AV sacrifices a lot because you are still in a dropsuit and are still exposed to normal infantry on the ground 3.) 2 Million SP is a lot compared to 10 Million into tanking. Tanks can do anything from sniping (kinda), to assualt, to AV and more. AV (except FGs) can only be used to kill vehicles. Ever see someone kill a dropsuit with Lai Dais? 4.) Why shouldn't I be able to destroy you? What should we bring in cromo tanks and buff them to 20k armor? Nah that's too low I bet you want MCC Level health and armor. What should be able to destroy you? Should we just make you invincible like 98% of the loltanking community wants to be? 5.) Because that same prick who only Spent 2 Million SP and 77k ISK is that same prick who is gonna get whipped and beaten by the enemy infantry on the ground. 1 Million ISK per deployment please. What, you think good tanks don't cost 1mil ISK? See, I told you you've never tanked. My Madrugar, costs me 450k, and it's got a good repper, 180mm steel plates, 2 beta PG extenders, a heavy armor remote repairer, and a light converse shield transporter. Along with an ST-1 missile launcher (or whatever that basic missile turret is). And I could reduce that cost to 300k if I really wanted to. Don't believe me? Then I'll post a picture when I get home. Tanks cost 1 Mil when you make them cost one mil Please do post a picture.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1069	Posted - 2013.10.18 16:37:00 - [28] - Quote Atiim wrote: Destroyer Rob wrote: i didnt read anything in the post but i had an idea about tanks. i think it would be good if there was some item or some way to damage the track of a tank so it is either temporarily immobilized or something. right now in a pub for example its so easy for a tank to just engage then run away when its low and rep up. tank can go completely untactical without any infantry support and beast mode too easy. maybe an immobilization grenade that will make it move 20% speed for 30 seconds, or hitting a track with a forge gun makes it unable to move for 10 seconds or something. maybe let us shove logs in the track like the finns of the winter war eh Yeah most lol tankers don't do anything but run and gun, and then wonder why AV hurts. Yeah, most AV relies on the game to aim for them, then complain when they can't destroy tanks with PRO AV, then wonder why they get killed so easily by a platform meant to duel with other tanks.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1069	Posted - 2013.10.18 16:42:00 - [29] - Quote Atiim wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Atiim wrote: I have a 450k tank which could vaporise it, the reason a decent tank costs 1mil is mainly due to the turret which needs to be good enough to whack AV infantry and any tanks you come across Hmm a S* tank tho huh? Never had a problem with killing infantry when I have my missile launcher on. 6899 armor isn't that crappy, considering that that's what all the Madrugars I've ever seen have. And I could make that 7k if I didn't design my tank to rep other tanks. Then again I guess maybe everyone has a tank, which is most likely true. Thers is tanks like your fitting then ther is smart cheap tanks All tanks in general are 500k about due to the mods, its the turrets which skyrocket the price but also make you more offensive against vehicles and AI if you choose to try and do both tanks and smart tanks huh? What is the difference? Unless you think I have MLT gear. Though let's stop having an e-peen stroking contest and get to the point: If we nerf AV, (which you clearly want) and leave LOLTanks the same then you will dominate regardless of AV resistance. A basic swarm launcher is a MLT swarm launcher with lower CPU/PG. You know that. I know that. And the same is for FGs. You wasn't to be able to stomp with little to no AV resistance whatsoever. And don't give me that teamwork BS because last time I checked, it takes ONE PERSON to drive a Loltank. And Squads of tanks are very rare. DO YOU WANT 16 PEOPLE WITH PROTO AV?. Say no and your a hypocrite. Say yes and your just plain stupid. Here is a tip, do what infantry does, DON'T RUN THE MOST EXPENSIVE CRAP POSSIBLE. Maybe you and the rest of your incompetent loltankers won't be so butthurt when I destroy your tanks GET GOOD or don't call out your tank Oh and don't get me wrong, you are a ** tanker, along with the rest of you loltankers[/quote] LOL You consider your terrible fit to be a good tank, but someone else's tank with resistances to be a bad tank. Methinks you need to look in the mirror more often. But infantry does run the most expensive stuff possible, and they can still make a profit. We run the most expensive stuff on a tank JUST TO SURVIVE A SINGLE MATCH. Everybody has a problem with a tank being the best counter to another tank, but nobody has a problem with AV being literal punishment against vehicles, because why balance the game for game modes that matter (FW and PC if you don't know) when infantry wants CCP to balance the game on ambush (and screw skirmish and domination, who needs objectives).
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1069	Posted - 2013.10.18 16:43:00 - [30] - Quote Bendtner92 wrote: Taka just stop this bs wanting to remove proto AV. As far as I know vehicles will have both proto mods and weapons, so if anything should happen, AV players shouldn't be allowed to use AV on anything but standard suits. Of course there's no chance that would happen, and frankly wouldn't change a single thing since you can easily use proto AV on standard suits. If you would just take the time and go through the vehicle changes you would see that AV will have a very hard time taking you out, especially since swarms and AV nades (and possibly the forge gun as well) are being nerfed. Where are you getting this inside information?

Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1069	Posted - 2013.10.18 16:44:00 - [31] - Quote Atiim wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Why cant you quote properly? No you balance it right, if we dont have proto vehicles how can we balance it to proto AV? you cant so you start at basic I use teamwork with my tank, when i use AV i can just solo it with ease and not have to use teamwork - love double standards from AV players, its never been easier to solo a vehicle Also you always forget, vehicles are being changed and so will AV so its best to start at basic and build up so then adv is balanced with adv and same with proto But a bad player like you doesnt understand logic, you cant kill a basic tank with lolprotoswarms and av nades, you cant even fit up a semi decent tank and would get destroyed in seconds by basic AV anyways Frankly you are irrelevent Umm you do realized that it was you who messed up the text for the quotes right? I'm capable of teamwork, but good AV is not a skill that everyone has. And I honestly doubt your credibility with lolswarms, as you can only solo with PRO AV. If you get soloed by STD/ADV AV then you suck. There is not helping or rebalancing that. As for balancing AV, you realize that a basic SL can't do crap against a good tank right? No that's what I thought. Stop dodging the question, do you or do you not want everyone and his grandma to have PRO AV? Do you want full 16 man teams to have AV the second you call in a car? That qualifies as teamwork right? - love double standards from loltankers. Maybe you should pour that 1 Million ISK Into some Kleenex, because tanking clearly is not good for you. LOL Good AV isn't even a skill! The game takes care of aiming for you! How can that possibly be considered to be "good?"
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1069	Posted - 2013.10.18 16:47:00 - [32] - Quote Bendtner92 wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: No AV numbers yet Basic vs basic is the best way tbh then scale it up Swarms and AV nades will likely get around a 33% nerf, at least that's what I've heard so far. That means swarms will be doing 880 / 1100 / 1320 damage across std / adv / pro tier. That means proto swarms will be doing the amount of damage standard swarms currently do. That's a massive nerf. If you want basic vs basic, that means no proto (or advanced) turrets for you, is that what you want? Because you simply ignored me saying standard hulls, proto mods and proto turrets = standard suits, proto mods and proto weapons. You're forgetting 5 complex damage mods. Duh
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1069	Posted - 2013.10.18 17:54:00 - [33] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: LOL Good AV isn't even a skill! The game takes care of aiming for you! How can that possibly be considered to be "good?" Go solo a Madruger on foot starting at stand off range with infantry escort and tell me that again. LOL As if you could do that.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1069	Posted - 2013.10.18 17:55:00 - [34] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: LOL Good AV isn't even a skill! The game takes care of aiming for you! How can that possibly be considered to be "good?" Go solo a Madruger on foot starting at stand off range with infantry escort and tell me that again. Too easy with proto swarms, 9k dmg coming at you in 3seconds Or just drive a LAV near and pop out and fire using the lav as cover Done it with milita swarms before the fixed the lock step. LOL "I've taken out the enemy MCC with a forge. Fact"
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1069	Posted - 2013.10.18 17:56:00 - [35] - Quote Atiim wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Atiim wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Why cant you quote properly? No you balance it right, if we dont have proto vehicles how can we balance it to proto AV? you cant so you start at basic I use teamwork with my tank, when i use AV i can just solo it with ease and not have to use teamwork - love double standards from AV players, its never been easier to solo a vehicle Also you always forget, vehicles are being changed and so will AV so its best to start at basic and build up so then adv is balanced with adv and same with proto But a bad player like you doesnt understand logic, you cant kill a basic tank with lolprotoswarms and av nades, you cant even fit up a semi decent tank and would get destroyed in seconds by basic AV anyways Frankly you are irrelevent Umm you do realized that it was you who messed up the text for the quotes right? I'm capable of teamwork, but good AV is not a skill that everyone has. And I honestly doubt your credibility with lolswarms, as you can only solo with PRO AV. If you get soloed by STD/ADV AV then you suck. There is not helping or rebalancing that. As for balancing AV, you realize that a basic SL can't do crap against a good tank right? No that's what I thought. Stop dodging the question, do you or do you not want everyone and his grandma to have PRO AV? Do you want full 16 man teams to have AV the second you call in a car? That qualifies as teamwork right? - love double standards from loltankers. Maybe you should pour that 1 Million ISK Into some Kleenex, because tanking clearly is not good for you. You mean you screwed up the quotes Good AV requires skill? lolno swarms/AV nades do not, FG requires a little and PLC requires alot now which one is the most popular AV weapon to use? Basic SL can, new tanks have 3 slots for tank and 2 slot for whatever is left over, but the basic AV cannot solo a tank in general unless the pilot is an idiot, get 2 ppl and you can kill it You can have proto AV if i get my proto vehicles DS/LAV/HAV Also you really think this game will stick to being 16v16 forvever? also everyone should have a AV suit tbh, if you dont then dont complain if a tank stomps on you Stick to being irrelevent since you are clearly bad at this game TBH I never had a problem with having to go up against PRO loltanks, actually that is what NEEDS TO HAPPEN. When did i say no PRO tanks? All I said is that if you have basic tanks, then I still want my PRO AV. The way most ppl use AV requires no skill. But the most effective way to use AV is to wait until the tank drives out of cover and beat the ever loving crap out of it. Tanking doesn't require much skill, drive around kill crap, and avoid AV. Everybody should have a remote repairer and shield transporters for repairing each other if there harders and/or armor regenerators die. If you don't have that then don't complain when AV Stomps you? See what I did there So you loltankers all use teamwork? So you never use your tank unless somebody else has a tank out? That's a lie. No I don't think 16v16 is gonna be forever, and you need to stay irrelevant because you clearly suck at tanking. And I honestly couldn't give a crap what you think about my skills, if you are wrong then you are wrong. No getting around that. We don't have PRO tanks. STD hull, mods and PRO turret =/= PRO hull, PRO mods and PRO turret. We don't have PRO tanks.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1069	Posted - 2013.10.18 17:57:00 - [36] - Quote Atiim wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Atiim wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Why cant you quote properly? No you balance it right, if we dont have proto vehicles how can we balance it to proto AV? you cant so you start at basic I use teamwork with my tank, when i use AV i can just solo it with ease and not have to use teamwork - love double standards from AV players, its never been easier to solo a vehicle Also you always forget, vehicles are being changed and so will AV so its best to start at basic and build up so then adv is balanced with adv and same with proto But a bad player like you doesnt understand logic, you cant kill a basic tank with lolprotoswarms and av nades, you cant even fit up a semi decent tank and would get destroyed in seconds by basic AV anyways Frankly you are irrelevent Umm you do realized that it was you who messed up the text for the quotes right? I'm capable of teamwork, but good AV is not a skill that everyone has. And I honestly doubt your credibility with lolswarms, as you can only solo with PRO AV. If you get soloed by STD/ADV AV then you suck. There is not helping or rebalancing that. As for balancing AV, you realize that a basic SL can't do crap against a good tank right? No that's what I thought. Stop dodging the question, do you or do you not want everyone and his grandma to have PRO AV? Do you want full 16 man teams to have AV the second you call in a car? That qualifies as teamwork right? - love double standards from loltankers. Maybe you should pour that 1 Million ISK Into some Kleenex, because tanking clearly is not good for you. You mean you screwed up the quotes Good AV requires skill? lolno swarms/AV nades do not, FG requires a little and PLC requires alot now which one is the most popular AV weapon to use? Basic SL can, new tanks have 3 slots for tank and 2 slot for whatever is left over, but the basic AV cannot solo a tank in general unless the pilot is an idiot, get 2 ppl and you can kill it You can have proto AV if i get my proto vehicles DS/LAV/HAV Also you really think this game will stick to being 16v16 forvever? also everyone should have a AV suit tbh, if you dont then dont complain if a tank stomps on you Stick to being irrelevent since you are clearly bad at this game TBH I never had a problem with having to go up against PRO loltanks, actually that is what NEEDS TO HAPPEN. When did i say no PRO tanks? All I said is that if you have basic tanks, then I still want my PRO AV. The way most ppl use AV requires no skill. But the most effective way to use AV is to wait until the tank drives out of cover and beat the ever loving crap out of it. Tanking doesn't require much skill, drive around kill crap, and avoid AV. Everybody should have a remote repairer and shield transporters for repairing each other if there harders and/or armor regenerators die. If you don't have that then don't complain when AV Stomps you? See what I did there So you loltankers all use teamwork? So you never use your tank unless somebody else has a tank out? That's a lie. No I don't think 16v16 is gonna be forever, and you need to stay irrelevant because you clearly suck at tanking. And I honestly couldn't give a crap what you think about my skills, if you are wrong then you are wrong. No getting around that. Also, I'm on right now. Care to show me how you tank?
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1070	Posted - 2013.10.18 17:58:00 - [37] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: LOL Good AV isn't even a skill! The game takes care of aiming for you! How can that possibly be considered to be "good?" Go solo a Madruger on foot starting at stand off range with infantry escort and tell me that again. Too easy with proto swarms, 9k dmg coming at you in 3seconds Or just drive a LAV near and pop out and fire using the lav as cover When are you getting on? First PC starts in about an hour.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1070	Posted - 2013.10.18 17:59:00 - [38] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Actually I have 120+ points at the time. Reading comprehension 0
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1070	Posted - 2013.10.18 18:02:00 - [39] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Falchion is tier 3 Falchion is MLT hull with a lame bonus.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1070	Posted - 2013.10.18 18:13:00 - [40] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Actually I have 120+ points at the time. Reading comprehension 0 Herp derp, so says a guy who cannot seem to survive a match in a maddy. Because I actually do go to the front lines to try to make a difference.

Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1071	Posted - 2013.10.18 20:51:00 - [41] - Quote Her Nibs wrote: NO Let me see....BIG Tank.....Little Girl Clone. Where is the balance. We run, hide, duck, shimmey, while trying to blow stuff up.. You hide behind mountains, buildings etc and just as that last swarm is about to hit....LIKE COWARDS, you recall your tank. Leave it alone. I die for the cause and have never asked anyone to change things so I can recall my Proto gear. So we're cowards for using a mechanic CCP gave to us? But it's entirely fair when we get pummeled by invisible swarms. Got it. You can sit in my tank if you want. I don't bite.

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online/DUST514, the EVE/DUST514 logo, EVE/DUST514 and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to OMG Labs to use EVE Online/DUST514 and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, OMG Labs. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.