Not really, as they will call BS (as usual) and demand a massive damage buff, or nerf to everything else.

Maybe the sweet spot is 25 bullets militia and 30 basic, 35 advanced and 40 proto.

Sounds more balanced and tiered than one magazine size for all basic, advanced and proto??


I prefer small changes to aid balancing instead of Mjolnirs nerf strikes.

you gotta remember that these are future weapons and they AR is not really firing bullets but bolts of plasma. I would be questioning why the Sub machine gun has 72!

i like this idea. ARs are entirely too powerful and reducing the clip would be a great balance without changing the other numbers. I like changing it down to 40, and then 30. Have 40 as the control number, 30 might be too little so test it at 40. But the devs wont do this, and if they do, it will be pushed back

These have 20 and 30 bullets per magazine.
I do not sell these but hmmmm perhaps its time for me to adopt a new hobby?

http://world.guns.ru/assault/usa/m16-m16a1-m16a2-m16a3-e.html

These have 20 and 30 bullets per magazine.
I do not sell these but hmmmm perhaps its time for me to adopt a new hobby?

http://world.guns.ru/assault/usa/m16-m16a1-m16a2-m16a3-e.html

Not really, as they will call BS (as usual) and demand a massive damage buff, or nerf to everything else.

Maybe the sweet spot is 25 bullets militia and 30 basic, 35 advanced and 40 proto.

Sounds more balanced and tiered than one magazine size for all basic, advanced and proto??


I prefer small changes to aid balancing instead of Mjolnirs nerf strikes.

These have 20 and 30 bullets per magazine.
I do not sell these but hmmmm perhaps its time for me to adopt a new hobby?

http://world.guns.ru/assault/usa/m16-m16a1-m16a2-m16a3-e.html

yeah i completly agree bro, they should have 30 round clips like litterally every AR to ever exist in the history of anywere, but dust doesent make sense, it never will. Dust is dumb, everything about it, nothing is logical here. Armor tanks are faster because armor plates make you slower, hmgs are now gattling guns but ARs shoot further and faster, grenades blow up tanks no one knows whats going on. So its kinda pointless to make real sense of things. its not going to happen

Well I liked the original AR from Halo 1 and it felt balanced back then, but you could only reload it twice before you magged out but it was no instant killer like our Plasma Rifles are.

Well I liked the original AR from Halo 1 and it felt balanced back then, but you could only reload it twice before you magged out but it was no instant killer like our Plasma Rifles are.

Well I liked the original AR from Halo 1 and it felt balanced back then, but you could only reload it twice before you magged out but it was no instant killer like our Plasma Rifles are.

And heres the problem in that Dust 514 ARs are instant killers and this then is UNBALANCED.
Therefore to restore balance lower magazine sizes are needed.

And heres the problem in that Dust 514 ARs are instant killers and this then is UNBALANCED.
Therefore to restore balance lower magazine sizes are needed.

Not really, as they will call BS (as usual) and demand a massive damage buff, or nerf to everything else.

dispersion would be nice but it will not make a difference because of the sharpshooter skill

When I say dispersion I mean the falloff like the laser has.

Since its not shooting bullets and to give shotguns, HMG, SMG a decided area??

I.e. AR dispersion at less than 20m is so high for these plasma balls that they do reduced damage at ranges under 25 m and dispersion of these plasma balls is such that they do reduced damage at ranges above 65m .

Not really, as they will call BS (as usual) and demand a massive damage buff, or nerf to everything else.

Maybe the sweet spot is 25 bullets militia and 30 basic, 35 advanced and 40 proto.

Sounds more balanced and tiered than one magazine size for all basic, advanced and proto??


I prefer small changes to aid balancing instead of Mjolnirs nerf strikes.

Well I liked the original AR from Halo 1 and it felt balanced back then, but you could only reload it twice before you magged out but it was no instant killer like our Plasma Rifles are.

Snip Snip

30 bullets too few for 1500 damage??

Hmmmm.

10 % damage increase source: CCP Wolfman.

15% damage increase source AR proficiency L5

Three complex damage mods doing 10% each?

30% from three damage mods minus stacking for 26%
26% plus 15% proficiency 41% damage plus CCP Wolfmans damage of 10% gives me 51% damage increase.

So 30 bullets times 34 for 1020 damage times 1.5 for 1530 damage from 30 bullets.

The original AR in Halo had the same recoil exploit as the AR we have now...

34 damage? whoops, thought it was 33, my bad. Have to update my post then :)

Regardless, unless that's a proto gallente assault or a proto logi, that's a hell of a glass cannon you've built for yourself. You're gonna be armor tanked and a nice slow easy target even if you are. Not to mention the slow regen of armor means you're eventually gonna die just from being whittled down or be forced to sit out of the battle after every engagement for half a minute+.

Still anyone who didn't have proficiency V and 3 complex damage mods would still have a tough time with only 30 bullets. Not to mention the base SP investment to get the proto dopsuit, level V weaponry, level V AR proficiency, and both engineering and electronics to level V so you could actually fit it.

Also do you happen to have a link to wolfmans post on that hidden 10% buff? Not calling you a liar, just curious and want to see it. When did that come in?

30 bullets too few for 1500 damage??

Hmmmm.

10 % damage increase source: CCP Wolfman.

15% damage increase source AR proficiency L5

Three complex damage mods doing 10% each?

30% from three damage mods minus stacking for 26%
26% plus 15% proficiency 41% damage plus CCP Wolfmans damage of 10% gives me 51% damage increase.

So 30 bullets times 34 for 1020 damage times 1.5 for 1530 damage from 30 bullets.

Oh, that buff. I'm fairly certain that was already added in the 34 that it shows. I'll have to go look through some old blogs and posts on it to find out.

CCP Cmdr Wang]Posting the following info on upcoming changes to weapon damage and HMG balance on behalf of CCP Rement since he's knee deep in making these changes. He will also be answer questions and discussing this topic in this thread as well.

Tl;dr version:
GÇó In the next hot-fix weapons will all get a 10% damage increase to compensate for the removal of the Weaponry skill bonus.
GÇó HMG damage buffed to 18 HP (including aforementioned 10% increase) and given a 5% dispersion buff.
GÇó In the near future, we will address range issues by removing the hard stop that currently takes place at maximum weapon range.

In Chromosome, the Weaponry skill gave an across the board 2% damage bonus to handheld weapons per level. Given the low SP cost of the skill (and the fact that itGÇÖs a pre-req for every weapon in the game) the majority of players would just skill straight to level 5 making the skill pretty pointless. So, in Uprising we removed the skill bonus. The side effect of this, of course, is that time-to-kill has increased.

This, combined with some of the control issues weGÇÖve been seeing, has led to combat feeling worse than it did in Chromosome. We will address this with a hot-fix that gives an across the board 10% increase to all handheld weapon damage to put DPS back to where it was. Additionally, weGÇÖve increased HMG damage and reduced the dispersion penalty when moving by 5% to address issues with the weapon.

The removal of the Sharpshooter skill (which gave bonuses to range) has also highlighted some issues with range in general. Weapon classes need unique range profiles. I doubt anyone would dispute that. And the sharpshooter skill was pushing far too many weapons beyond their intended engagement ranges. While itGÇÖs removal has caused some issues, the SS skill was a crutch and it hid more deep-seated problems with range in the game. It will not be coming back.

Right now, all weapons have an optimal and maximum range. Unfortunately, at its max range the weapon simply stops doing damage. This is bad for a whole host of reasons and weGÇÖll be addressing this with a point release in the near future by giving all weapons an optimal, effective and absolute range. Up to the optimal range weapons will do 100% damage (shield/armor profiles notwithstanding) and then drop off slowly towards their effective range. From effective range out to the absolute range damage will drop noticeably but weapons will still do incidental damage even at extreme ranges.

The 10% buff was added when they removed the skill bonus on Weaponry, but I'm not sure if it was added to the weapon's ingame numbers or if the weapons have it added after the fact as if it were still a skill bonus.

Trust but verify.

Two newborn Dust bunnies.
One new born shoots at the other newborn red bunny Militia AR shoots at one with one finger tap for one bullet doing 37 damage.

Militia ar says 34??

But 34 plus 10% Wolfmans buff equals 3.3 plus militia ar saying 34 gives me 37??

34 damage? whoops, thought it was 33, my bad. Have to update my post then :)

Regardless, unless that's a proto gallente assault or a proto logi, that's a hell of a glass cannon you've built for yourself. You're gonna be armor tanked and a nice slow easy target even if you are. Not to mention the slow regen of armor means you're eventually gonna die just from being whittled down or be forced to sit out of the battle after every engagement for half a minute+.

Still anyone who didn't have proficiency V and 3 complex damage mods would still have a tough time with only 30 bullets. Not to mention the base SP investment to get the proto dopsuit, level V weaponry, level V AR proficiency, and both engineering and electronics to level V so you could actually fit it.

Also do you happen to have a link to wolfmans post on that hidden 10% buff? Not calling you a liar, just curious and want to see it. When did that come in?

Not really, as they will call BS (as usual) and demand a massive damage buff, or nerf to everything else.

How would you exponentiation damage to those clips?

By the looks of it Proto's will kick ass big time vs a Militia or Advanced fits.

I don't see how this makes more sense to anyone then what we already have, when you will need 3 dudes in militia to deal with 1 guy in proto as far as your clip count goes (including missed shots). It's already bad as it is having Proto AR's deal more damage then Militia or Adv.
(I am comparing AR vs AR fights here nothing else.)

Proto gear to me felt like it was supposed to be the same gear as advanced but that it's got something special maybe a risk factor to it after all it's a prototype and not an approved product yet.

I see it as just the same idea then what is already in game now. (not great)
Plus: How people still complain about balancing, when there is so many racial equipment / vehicles still missing?
This game will be unbalanced till then at the least.
(unless that stuff just never comes anymore but that's another thing)

Very undecided whether this can be turned in to anything good.

Ya know what? As an avid AR user, I'd say I'd absolutely be fine with a mag reduction. I don't know if reducing it all the way down to 30 would be all that cool, but I could definitely see it drop to 45 or so to be in line with the militia variant. Went 22-2 with it in an ambush earlier this morning, so it's certainly not that bad of a weapon.

But I wouldn't go a whole lot lower than that in my honest opinion. At 30 bullets doing 33 damage a piece for 990 total damage, you still wouldn't be able to kill my logi with over 1100 hp without reloading or landing several headshots and not missing the rest. Even a basic heavy with no plates or shield extenders would survive if he just has base armor and shields trained.

45 bullets will put you at 1485 damage giving you a little leeway and putting you in the position of still -able- to kill a basic heavy, while a well fitted one would still survive even with every bullet hitting, again requiring headshots, but as it's a well fitted heavy, it's kinda meant to be able to sponge up the damage.

This, which would be a reduction from 1980 potential damage which simply kills everything even after you've missed a bunch of shots would be a fine balance in my opinion as even that 1485 damage would require you to hit on -every- shot which would require a bit of skill, and it certainly wouldn't happen for those spray and prayers.

And that's what a weapon should do, if you're skillful enough to be able to land most every bullet, you should be rewarded for it by being able to kill most all people. And if you're not, you deserve to watch the reload animation, followed by the respawn counter.

I remember using M-16 AR and those had 30 bullets per banana clip magazine back when the calendar said 1980..
So why does the Dust 514 AR have 60 bullets per magazine??

I notice the reload skills but when I ask AR using folks about them they say why bother when the AR has 60 bullets per magazine??

I was wondering if perhaps its time to make reload skills more relevant by reducing the AR magazine size down to 30 bullets for militia AR and 40 for regular AR.

I am thinking this perhaps help balance the ARs more.

???

Maybe the sweet spot is 25 bullets militia and 30 basic, 35 advanced and 40 proto.

Sounds more balanced and tiered than one magazine size for all basic, advanced and proto??


I prefer small changes to aid balancing instead of Mjolnirs nerf strikes.

This what I really don't get with ye lot. You attempt to make a point or have a debate about balancing in this game, but you more or less ruin it by A: Equating it to real life B: What you equate it to being so out of sync with what is actually real.

Standard mag sizes with standard calibur cased rounds for military assault rifles/carbines come in 30 round mags. Present tech using caseless rounds, different bullet design, and improved magazines easily have 150% of the mag capacities in general usage. Even without using caseless rounds the P90 has a 50 round mag due to cartridge design and the mag design and feed design. If ceaseless rounds were used in the design then even more rounds would go into the same space. Honestly, modern day tech is easily able to field capacities like what we see in Dust. Ya do yourself a disfavor by even comparing the two. I'd expect to have even larger mags again due to bullet design in both material and shape, aswell as the propellant required being miniscule.

Just so we're clear, I've been fully hmg since Christmas, and run a commando suit wit a primary of a laser and a secondary either shotgun or AR. Mag sizes are grand. Now that hit detection is working well, damage can be looked at. Reducing the mag is the wrong way. Reduce the damage, and have set recoil per round, not gradually build over time. And I don't think any balance should be attempt till more racial weapons are in to balance against.

Back to my main point though. Go ahead and use present knowledge to suggest potential directions for Dust weapons, but saying the balance/design of weapons in a sci-fi game based on a space travelling culture far in the future should be done around present day weapon designs that are at an epoch as it is, is idiocy of the highest order. Unfortunately that idiocy is shared by many on this forum. I don't really care if you get offended by what I've typed, but I do hope you have a better think about what you type in future.

Yes, let's make sure there more tier imbalances in the game rather than less. Well done men.

Not really, as they will call BS (as usual) and demand a massive damage buff, or nerf to everything else.

Exactly since with AR prof 5 all thats needed is a basic AR, a Dren or an Exile.
If its an RPG then it needs tiered weapons otherwise leveling is pointless in the case of the AR.

Maybe the sweet spot is 25 bullets militia and 30 basic, 35 advanced and 40 proto.

Sounds more balanced and tiered than one magazine size for all basic, advanced and proto??


I prefer small changes to aid balancing instead of Mjolnirs nerf strikes.

Tommorows technology Today!!!!

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/528357/ar-stoner-magazine-system-ar-15-223-remington-100-round-drum-polymer-black

If you need that many bullets to "hunt," then you need aim-assist in real life.

Also, how in the hell is this legal again? Especially after the Navy Yard incident.

If you need that many bullets to "hunt," then you need aim-assist in real life.

Also, how in the hell is this legal again? Especially after the Navy Yard incident.

Tommorows technology Today!!!!

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/528357/ar-stoner-magazine-system-ar-15-223-remington-100-round-drum-polymer-black

Thats a patriot mag my friend they have been around for years, they have the highest jam and misfire ration of any magazine!
1/5 rounds is misfired because of the mag, plus there is an almost guaranteed chance you'll get 1 jam a mag!

Thats a patriot mag my friend they have been around for years, they have the highest jam and misfire ration of any magazine!
1/5 rounds is misfired because of the mag, plus there is an almost guaranteed chance you'll get 1 jam a mag!

Problem solved
http://www.everydaynodaysoff.com/2010/04/09/belt-fed-ar-15-upper-receiver/

Because guns don't kill people. People kill People.

In the US 1000 people die to accidental gun related deaths per year. Guns kill people too...

Reducing the Clipsize of the GAR is a tricky one as you would need to reduce the Clipsize of all automatic weapons as well. Just because you don't like a weapon does not mean it is totally unbalanced.

The AR needs the correct DPS Range profile: High DPS (highest Dps of all AR) and low Range (lowest Range of all ARs) thats it.

If you simply reduce the Clipsize of the AR the AsCR would become king: similar DPS, similar Range and similar Dispersion without barrel climb (all in all a stupid concept to make both weapons that similar).

And if you are afraid of DPS or Damage per clip have a look at the other Automatic weapons:

Scrambler Rifle (std):
DPS: 840+
Damage per Clip: 3240
Clipsize: 45

AsCR (adv):
DPS: 444
Damage per Clip: 2721
Clipsize: 72

TAR (adv)
DPS: 500
Damage per Clip: 1350
Clipszie: 18

Assault Rifle Std:
DPS: 425
Damage per Clip: 2040
Clipsize: 60

HMG (std)
DPS: 533
Damage per Clip: 6800
Clipsize:450

SMG (std)
DPS: 350
Damage per Clip:1680
Clipsize: 80

So in general the GAR is in a good place IMHO.

Regarding Recoil and Dispersion have a look here the vids show that the GAR isn't that much more accurate than the AsCR unless it comes to skill.

People tend to forget how much the GAR benefits from skills in terms of accuracy and of course people have learned to handle the recoil/dispersion the AR has so it becomes a non factor but thats not the fault of the weapon....

On a sidenote I wouldn't mind a bit more Recoil and Dispersion but honestly i think that would change things only for one or two weeks until people have adapted (that was what happened the last time they increased Recoil and Dispersion on that weapon).

Either a gun sitting across the room went off all by itself from across the room......or You don't understand the analogy.

Stupid or Lying ..Which one is it?

This isn't a bad idea, but I think CCP should wait for the next wave of rifles, and the changes to AR that result from that before making too many changes now--only to change them again in another 5-6weeks. This game has too much nerf/buff see-sawing as it is.

Because You don't leave rounds in a gun, in a friggin gun case!
You put the bullets in an ammo box away from direct heat like the sun, a gun isn't going to go off if there is no round to go off.
If you are leaving loaded guns in your gun case I fear for your safety.

However in terms of a gun an unloaded gun killing someone
The power of the spring in the firing mechanism of an SA80 is enough to punch all the way through the skullmof the guy cleaning it.

But we are getting off topic, what is the actual downside to an ar?
large mag fast reload
very little kick
very little dispersion
large ammo reserve
long range
fully automatic
high rof
high damage
no overheat


Of that list every other weapon can safely say 1 of those at least is wrong, but not the ar, it needs a drawback!

It's still a placeholder and default for all the racial weapons combined. They're going to have to change it at some point anyway.

The only drawback the AR needs is to be average in all situations instead of dominant like it is right now. Jack of all trades, master of none and all that...

Edit: Anyone else having issues with quotes?

Someone missed the top half of a quote ill fix it here, true but the assault rifle which will become the blaster rifle, doesn't have drwbacks, unlike the scrambler rifle, which is actually a laser assault rifle. The minmatar will have an acog scope which makes hard to use in cqc and a low mag size, while the rail rifle will have a low rate of fire.

The weapons go something like this.

Assault - Short Range, Full Auto Gallante
Burst - Short/Mid Range, Burst (obviously ) Minmatar
Charge - Mid/Long Range, semi Auto, charge ability Amarr
Tac - Long Range, Semi Auto Caldari

Each race will attempt to mimic each other in the other ranges, and do relatively well, but each race will shine in its base range! There will be no difinitive jack of all trades.

But instead 16 rifles, who between them profcient everywhere! And because of how the skill tree works it gives you 4 weapons for the price of 1. Alowing you to swap and change dependent on the enemies you face!

Breach variation of ar has a shorter range, the act of breaching by definition is close quaters!!

you gotta remember that these are future weapons and they AR is not really firing bullets but bolts of plasma. I would be questioning why the Sub machine gun has 72!

I can only say, thankfully I don't really care about this game anymore, what most of you are suggesting that ccp do is plainly silly.

I fought against most of you an know that you would rather produce a ruckus on the forums than improve this game.

THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THE AR'S.

You know what I have a problem with, laser rifles.... why because they can shoot for longer than I can with an AR and have to reload, which means they just use the thing as a laser pointer and keep it up no matter how fast or for how long I have to run to in order to get to cover, I'm usually dead before the gun finishes reloading.....but then again each one of these players is probably running around with an unlicensed nuclear pack on their backs otherwise where is the power coming from.... some little nano?

Scrambler rifle, it is an AR with a charged shot and a scope.

Mass Driver, just keep raining shots down on your enemy with the bonus of effecting the enemies aim.

The HMG is just like a SMG with a larger clip.

Snipers and Forge gunners just seem to hide in the redline or up on someplace elevated.

All I see in this thread is some overly grandoised statements with a lot of blah blah blah; the only thing not discussed is that it is rarely a 1vs1 fight and it is normally a 1 vs 4 or 5 as the enemy has already slaughtered most of the guys coming with me.

So many heavies comlaining about the AR, yet why are the heavies not using a forge gun when there is a enemy vehicle on the field?

Did you seriously just complain about everyone not running an ar?
The LR is overpowered because of its high mag capacity, but the fact it only works usefully at sweetspot only 15m wide isn't enough?

Please please tell me your are joking?
Please tell me you are not that stupid!