Not really, as they will call BS (as usual) and demand a massive damage buff, or nerf to everything else.

i like this idea. ARs are entirely too powerful and reducing the clip would be a great balance without changing the other numbers. I like changing it down to 40, and then 30. Have 40 as the control number, 30 might be too little so test it at 40. But the devs wont do this, and if they do, it will be pushed back

who cares? its bad for balance

yeah i completly agree bro, they should have 30 round clips like litterally every AR to ever exist in the history of anywere, but dust doesent make sense, it never will. Dust is dumb, everything about it, nothing is logical here. Armor tanks are faster because armor plates make you slower, hmgs are now gattling guns but ARs shoot further and faster, grenades blow up tanks no one knows whats going on. So its kinda pointless to make real sense of things. its not going to happen

Well I liked the original AR from Halo 1 and it felt balanced back then, but you could only reload it twice before you magged out but it was no instant killer like our Plasma Rifles are.

There are other weapons with near similar time to kill amounts though so I am not sure what the TTK goal is for the game so even if you nerf it to 30 round mag its still going to down people near instantly and most folks reload between kills. So overall a magazine nerf alone is not going to 'fix' it.

Maybe higher dispersion because the damn thing is near laser accurate right now.

dispersion would be nice but it will not make a difference because of the sharpshooter skill

fall off and dispersion are 2 different things :p but the ARs do loose damage over distance, pretty significantly

The problem is the gun's range not it's clip size. I would need for someone to throw out it's range values in order to give my opinion as to what I think it should be reduced to though. If I remember I think it's 100% out to 40. Then you have to evaluate that against the HMG's to keep AR curve outside of that range wise, while being inside of the ScR and LR.

Give finite ammo to vehicles.

AR keeps 60 round magazine.



I'm not even bitching, honest. I just find it hilarious how this always devolves into accusations of trying to gimp someone's primary asset.

How would you exponentiation damage to those clips?

By the looks of it Proto's will kick ass big time vs a Militia or Advanced fits.

I don't see how this makes more sense to anyone then what we already have, when you will need 3 dudes in militia to deal with 1 guy in proto as far as your clip count goes (including missed shots). It's already bad as it is having Proto AR's deal more damage then Militia or Adv.
(I am comparing AR vs AR fights here nothing else.)

Proto gear to me felt like it was supposed to be the same gear as advanced but that it's got something special maybe a risk factor to it after all it's a prototype and not an approved product yet.

I see it as just the same idea then what is already in game now. (not great)
Plus: How people still complain about balancing, when there is so many racial equipment / vehicles still missing?
This game will be unbalanced till then at the least.
(unless that stuff just never comes anymore but that's another thing)

Very undecided whether this can be turned in to anything good.

Ya know what? As an avid AR user, I'd say I'd absolutely be fine with a mag reduction. I don't know if reducing it all the way down to 30 would be all that cool, but I could definitely see it drop to 45 or so to be in line with the militia variant. Went 22-2 with it in an ambush earlier this morning, so it's certainly not that bad of a weapon.

But I wouldn't go a whole lot lower than that in my honest opinion. At 30 bullets doing 33 damage a piece for 990 total damage, you still wouldn't be able to kill my logi with over 1100 hp without reloading or landing several headshots and not missing the rest. Even a basic heavy with no plates or shield extenders would survive if he just has base armor and shields trained.

45 bullets will put you at 1485 damage giving you a little leeway and putting you in the position of still -able- to kill a basic heavy, while a well fitted one would still survive even with every bullet hitting, again requiring headshots, but as it's a well fitted heavy, it's kinda meant to be able to sponge up the damage.

This, which would be a reduction from 1980 potential damage which simply kills everything even after you've missed a bunch of shots would be a fine balance in my opinion as even that 1485 damage would require you to hit on -every- shot which would require a bit of skill, and it certainly wouldn't happen for those spray and prayers.

And that's what a weapon should do, if you're skillful enough to be able to land most every bullet, you should be rewarded for it by being able to kill most all people. And if you're not, you deserve to watch the reload animation, followed by the respawn counter.

Oh, that buff. I'm fairly certain that was already added in the 34 that it shows. I'll have to go look through some old blogs and posts on it to find out.

34 + 10% shield bonus = 37 damage.

45 sounds about right to me. Like he said if your getting 1500 a mag then you are in a gallente chalked up on armour. Until we get full racial rifles this would be sufficent.

After that a reassessment of the weapon ranges need to be done and prehaps a little extra overheat on scr to bring it down to around the same level!

Reducing the Clipsize of the GAR is a tricky one as you would need to reduce the Clipsize of all automatic weapons as well. Just because you don't like a weapon does not mean it is totally unbalanced.

The AR needs the correct DPS Range profile: High DPS (highest Dps of all AR) and low Range (lowest Range of all ARs) thats it.

If you simply reduce the Clipsize of the AR the AsCR would become king: similar DPS, similar Range and similar Dispersion without barrel climb (all in all a stupid concept to make both weapons that similar).

And if you are afraid of DPS or Damage per clip have a look at the other Automatic weapons:

Scrambler Rifle (std):
DPS: 840+
Damage per Clip: 3240
Clipsize: 45

AsCR (adv):
DPS: 444
Damage per Clip: 2721
Clipsize: 72

TAR (adv)
DPS: 500
Damage per Clip: 1350
Clipszie: 18

Assault Rifle Std:
DPS: 425
Damage per Clip: 2040
Clipsize: 60

HMG (std)
DPS: 533
Damage per Clip: 6800
Clipsize:450

SMG (std)
DPS: 350
Damage per Clip:1680
Clipsize: 80

So in general the GAR is in a good place IMHO.

Regarding Recoil and Dispersion have a look here the vids show that the GAR isn't that much more accurate than the AsCR unless it comes to skill.

People tend to forget how much the GAR benefits from skills in terms of accuracy and of course people have learned to handle the recoil/dispersion the AR has so it becomes a non factor but thats not the fault of the weapon....

On a sidenote I wouldn't mind a bit more Recoil and Dispersion but honestly i think that would change things only for one or two weeks until people have adapted (that was what happened the last time they increased Recoil and Dispersion on that weapon).

This what I really don't get with ye lot. You attempt to make a point or have a debate about balancing in this game, but you more or less ruin it by A: Equating it to real life B: What you equate it to being so out of sync with what is actually real.

Standard mag sizes with standard calibur cased rounds for military assault rifles/carbines come in 30 round mags. Present tech using caseless rounds, different bullet design, and improved magazines easily have 150% of the mag capacities in general usage. Even without using caseless rounds the P90 has a 50 round mag due to cartridge design and the mag design and feed design. If ceaseless rounds were used in the design then even more rounds would go into the same space. Honestly, modern day tech is easily able to field capacities like what we see in Dust. Ya do yourself a disfavor by even comparing the two. I'd expect to have even larger mags again due to bullet design in both material and shape, aswell as the propellant required being miniscule.

Just so we're clear, I've been fully hmg since Christmas, and run a commando suit wit a primary of a laser and a secondary either shotgun or AR. Mag sizes are grand. Now that hit detection is working well, damage can be looked at. Reducing the mag is the wrong way. Reduce the damage, and have set recoil per round, not gradually build over time. And I don't think any balance should be attempt till more racial weapons are in to balance against.

Back to my main point though. Go ahead and use present knowledge to suggest potential directions for Dust weapons, but saying the balance/design of weapons in a sci-fi game based on a space travelling culture far in the future should be done around present day weapon designs that are at an epoch as it is, is idiocy of the highest order. Unfortunately that idiocy is shared by many on this forum. I don't really care if you get offended by what I've typed, but I do hope you have a better think about what you type in future.

Yes, let's make sure there more tier imbalances in the game rather than less. Well done men.

... you know, at this stage in life, I should know better than to respond to posters like this.

+1 for Thor hammer reference lol

ANd a tiered clip size would make a lot of sense, but only if you reduced the damage output difference between tiers. Because if you don't then not only are you getting an additional 5 bullets (that's ~170 damage per clip from one tier to the next not counting the damage difference) but the damage difference per bullet will make the difference between tiers unmanageable. There will be no beating a proto AR with an Exile unless the proto AR user is just plain terrible at aiming.

There needs to be a difference between tiers, but adjusting the clip size without reducing the damage difference between tiers (NOTE THAT I DID NOT SAY REDUCE THE DAMAGE AR USERS) would make the gap between tiers too great and make them too hard to balance against other weapons who's tiers are balanced closely together.

Because guns don't kill people. People kill People.

Problem solved
http://www.everydaynodaysoff.com/2010/04/09/belt-fed-ar-15-upper-receiver/

Will take longer to reload than the hmg
If this were useful/practical there would be no need for a propef mag, but sure you can have a belt fed ar!

Because guns don't kill people. People kill People.