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Blondie Roads
Introverts 4 Hire
27
|
Posted - 2013.09.24 13:49:00 -
[91] - Quote
Because guns don't kill people. People kill People.[/quote] In the US 1000 people die to accidental gun related deaths per year. Guns kill people too... [/quote]
Either a gun sitting across the room went off all by itself from across the room......or You don't understand the analogy.
Stupid or Lying ..Which one is it? |
Tech Ohm Eaven
L.O.T.I.S.
767
|
Posted - 2013.09.24 13:49:00 -
[92] - Quote
Makes note to ask about increasing the number of States that have AR magazine limitations.
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Monkey MAC
killer taxi company General Tso's Alliance
681
|
Posted - 2013.09.24 13:50:00 -
[93] - Quote
Will take longer to reload than the hmg If this were useful/practical there would be no need for a propef mag, but sure you can have a belt fed ar! |
Tech Ohm Eaven
L.O.T.I.S.
767
|
Posted - 2013.09.24 13:53:00 -
[94] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:Will take longer to reload than the hmg If this were useful/practical there would be no need for a propef mag, but sure you can have a belt fed ar!
There are casket magazines for the AR but so far theres six States that have a limitation on AR magazine size and after the Navy Yard incident theres going to be revisions and probably more States adhereing to these limitations. |
Beren Hurin
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
1677
|
Posted - 2013.09.24 13:53:00 -
[95] - Quote
Magazine size relates to how long you can apply damage for. Combine the reload speed of the weapon, and how long you have to wait for your suit to reload and you balance all three of those stats to figure out how often and for how long you can be a threat.
A weapon like the shot gun has a different application profile than the HMG, which is different than the AR, and scrambler pistol.
For example, I've really started to learn how, with an assault scrambler pistol, you can over-DPS an AR player under 20m. The key is you really only have the 1.x seconds it takes to empty the clip of the gun. The key is getting the first shot and making all your shots land. Headshots are preferable. A feat that is much easier to do with the ScP and scanner, than it is with an AR.
The key to fighting against the AR is to neutralize all of the benefits that it has and force it to play in its weaknesses. Stay at distance to get the biggest advantage of disperson and force its user to ADS. Fight outside of its optimal or catch it by surprise fighting in and out of cover so that it wastes most of its ammunition shooting at walls. |
Monkey MAC
killer taxi company General Tso's Alliance
681
|
Posted - 2013.09.24 13:54:00 -
[96] - Quote
Blondie Roads wrote:Because guns don't kill people. People kill People. In the US 1000 people die to accidental gun related deaths per year. Guns kill people too... [/quote]
Either a gun sitting across the room went off all by itself from across the room......or You don't understand the analogy.
Stupid or Lying ..Which one is it?[/quote]
Guns go of them selves all the time, you have concentrated a highly explosive material into a condensed space, its volatile! Try telling my friend from cadets bullets don't spontaneously fire, he broke his collarbone while he had the safety on! |
Cosgar
ParagonX
5403
|
Posted - 2013.09.24 13:58:00 -
[97] - Quote
Blondie Roads wrote:Either a gun sitting across the room went off all by itself from across the room......or You don't understand the analogy.
Stupid or Lying ..Which one is it? Factual. Here's some gun related stats from 2012. |
Tech Ohm Eaven
L.O.T.I.S.
767
|
Posted - 2013.09.24 14:01:00 -
[98] - Quote
Blondie Roads wrote:Because guns don't kill people. People kill People. In the US 1000 people die to accidental gun related deaths per year. Guns kill people too... [/quote]
Either a gun sitting across the room went off all by itself from across the room......or You don't understand the analogy.
Stupid or Lying ..Which one is it?[/quote]
From a friend at DoD:
http://www.ajronline.org/doi/full/10.2214/ajr.178.5.1781092
Fortunately, no one was injured. Although the gun struck the magnet bore, only minimal cosmetic damage occurred to the magnet itself. The MR unit had full functional capability immediately after the gun discharged. The weapon's thumb safety was reportedly engaged when the gun discharged.
Read More: http://www.ajronline.org/doi/full/10.2214/ajr.178.5.1781092
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Blondie Roads
Introverts 4 Hire
27
|
Posted - 2013.09.24 14:02:00 -
[99] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:Blondie Roads wrote:Because guns don't kill people. People kill People. In the US 1000 people die to accidental gun related deaths per year. Guns kill people too...
Either a gun sitting across the room went off all by itself from across the room......or You don't understand the analogy.
Stupid or Lying ..Which one is it?[/quote]
Guns go of them selves all the time, you have concentrated a highly explosive material into a condensed space, its volatile! Try telling my friend from cadets bullets don't spontaneously fire, he broke his collarbone while he had the safety on![/quote]
Try telling my perfectly unblemished gun case full of loaded guns and not one misfire. Again its people aiming loaded guns in an unintended direction.. Not guns spontaneously going off. Besides what do accidents have to do with clip sizes. Laws don't work for the lawless. |
Blondie Roads
Introverts 4 Hire
27
|
Posted - 2013.09.24 14:09:00 -
[100] - Quote
Oh .. and i venture to guess that a fair amount of accidental deaths due to guns is a gang banger hitting an unintended target.
You hold your line, I'll hold mine..
We are going to have to agree to disagree guys. |
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Monkey MAC
killer taxi company General Tso's Alliance
681
|
Posted - 2013.09.24 14:27:00 -
[101] - Quote
Blondie Roads wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:Blondie Roads wrote:Because guns don't kill people. People kill People. In the US 1000 people die to accidental gun related deaths per year. Guns kill people too... Either a gun sitting across the room went off all by itself from across the room......or You don't understand the analogy. Stupid or Lying ..Which one is it?
Guns go of them selves all the time, you have concentrated a highly explosive material into a condensed space, its volatile! Try telling my friend from cadets bullets don't spontaneously fire, he broke his collarbone while he had the safety on![/quote]
Try telling my perfectly unblemished gun case full of loaded guns and not one misfire. Again its people aiming loaded guns in an unintended direction.. Not guns spontaneously going off. Besides what do accidents have to do with clip sizes. Laws don't work for the lawless.[/quote]
Because You don't leave rounds in a gun, in a friggin gun case! You put the bullets in an ammo box away from direct heat like the sun, a gun isn't going to go off if there is no round to go off. If you are leaving loaded guns in your gun case I fear for your safety.
However in terms of a gun an unloaded gun killing someone The power of the spring in the firing mechanism of an SA80 is enough to punch all the way through the skullmof the guy cleaning it.
But we are getting off topic, what is the actual downside to an ar? large mag fast reload very little kick very little dispersion large ammo reserve long range fully automatic high rof high damage no overheat
Of that list every other weapon can safely say 1 of those at least is wrong, but not the ar, it needs a drawback! |
Oxskull Duncarino
Shadow Company HQ
225
|
Posted - 2013.09.24 14:28:00 -
[102] - Quote
Tech Ohm Eaven wrote:Korvin Lomont wrote:Reducing the Clipsize of the GAR is a tricky one as you would need to reduce the Clipsize of all automatic weapons as well. Just because you don't like a weapon does not mean it is totally unbalanced. The AR needs the correct DPS Range profile: High DPS (highest Dps of all AR) and low Range (lowest Range of all ARs) thats it. If you simply reduce the Clipsize of the AR the AsCR would become king: similar DPS, similar Range and similar Dispersion without barrel climb (all in all a stupid concept to make both weapons that similar). And if you are afraid of DPS or Damage per clip have a look at the other Automatic weapons: Scrambler Rifle (std): DPS: 840+ Damage per Clip: 3240 Clipsize: 45 AsCR (adv): DPS: 444 Damage per Clip: 2721 Clipsize: 72 TAR (adv) DPS: 500 Damage per Clip: 1350 Clipszie: 18 Assault Rifle Std: DPS: 425 Damage per Clip: 2040 Clipsize: 60 HMG (std) DPS: 533 Damage per Clip: 6800 Clipsize:450 SMG (std) DPS: 350 Damage per Clip:1680 Clipsize: 80 So in general the GAR is in a good place IMHO. Regarding Recoil and Dispersion have a look here the vids show that the GAR isn't that much more accurate than the AsCR unless it comes to skill. People tend to forget how much the GAR benefits from skills in terms of accuracy and of course people have learned to handle the recoil/dispersion the AR has so it becomes a non factor but thats not the fault of the weapon.... On a sidenote I wouldn't mind a bit more Recoil and Dispersion but honestly i think that would change things only for one or two weeks until people have adapted (that was what happened the last time they increased Recoil and Dispersion on that weapon). Except the scambler overheats and provides feedback damage. HMG overheats and the user is vulnerable for ten seconds. Laser has feedback damage. SMG is terrible versus shields since its a sidearm. The problem with the AR is right now it outperforms a HMG at five paces in CQC. The AR needs a tone down via haveing to pause to reload.
It is definitely an issue that the AR doesn't have any real downsides to use like the above weapons. With a little bit of pulse fire, which is easy to do, recoil is a non factor. As it stands recoil only seems to crop up after a certain amount of time has been spent firing, and 1 second pulse firing prevents it.This should be changed to recoil per shot, forcing those that want to have accurate midrange fire to have very good burst control, and those in CQB to exercise the same trigger finger control if they want head shots, or just hold down the trigger and dump the rounds at the center of the body.
By the way, if you find that an AR out preforms your HMG at 5m, in my part of the world a pace is a rough measure for a metre, then you mightn't be suited to running HMG. Inbetween 5-15m the HMG shreds similar level and gun AR toting tangos 1 on 1. I'm at 21mil SP as a dedicated heavy HMG user and it wrecks my head when people throw garbage comments out about what they don't know or can't use. Inside 5m can be tough due to faster movement and bunny hopping for sure but it is still good. |
Vell0cet
Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire
314
|
Posted - 2013.09.24 14:38:00 -
[103] - Quote
This isn't a bad idea, but I think CCP should wait for the next wave of rifles, and the changes to AR that result from that before making too many changes now--only to change them again in another 5-6weeks. This game has too much nerf/buff see-sawing as it is. |
low genius
the sound of freedom Renegade Alliance
473
|
Posted - 2013.09.24 14:39:00 -
[104] - Quote
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote:AR's usually have large magazines so they have something to read while on the toilet! *snaretap*
rimshot |
Cosgar
ParagonX
5405
|
Posted - 2013.09.24 14:41:00 -
[105] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:Blondie Roads wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:Blondie Roads wrote:Because guns don't kill people. People kill People. In the US 1000 people die to accidental gun related deaths per year. Guns kill people too... Either a gun sitting across the room went off all by itself from across the room......or You don't understand the analogy. Stupid or Lying ..Which one is it? Guns go of them selves all the time, you have concentrated a highly explosive material into a condensed space, its volatile! Try telling my friend from cadets bullets don't spontaneously fire, he broke his collarbone while he had the safety on!
Try telling my perfectly unblemished gun case full of loaded guns and not one misfire. Again its people aiming loaded guns in an unintended direction.. Not guns spontaneously going off. Besides what do accidents have to do with clip sizes. Laws don't work for the lawless.[/quote]
Because You don't leave rounds in a gun, in a friggin gun case! You put the bullets in an ammo box away from direct heat like the sun, a gun isn't going to go off if there is no round to go off. If you are leaving loaded guns in your gun case I fear for your safety.
However in terms of a gun an unloaded gun killing someone The power of the spring in the firing mechanism of an SA80 is enough to punch all the way through the skullmof the guy cleaning it.
But we are getting off topic, what is the actual downside to an ar? large mag fast reload very little kick very little dispersion large ammo reserve long range fully automatic high rof high damage no overheat
Of that list every other weapon can safely say 1 of those at least is wrong, but not the ar, it needs a drawback![/quote] The only drawback the AR needs is to be average in all situations instead of dominant like it is right now. Jack of all trades, master of none and all that...
Edit: Anyone else having issues with quotes? |
Cosgar
ParagonX
5405
|
Posted - 2013.09.24 14:43:00 -
[106] - Quote
Vell0cet wrote:This isn't a bad idea, but I think CCP should wait for the next wave of rifles, and the changes to AR that result from that before making too many changes now--only to change them again in another 5-6weeks. This game has too much nerf/buff see-sawing as it is. It's still a placeholder and default for all the racial weapons combined. They're going to have to change it at some point anyway. |
Cody Sietz
Bullet Cluster
1019
|
Posted - 2013.09.24 14:52:00 -
[107] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:Vell0cet wrote:This isn't a bad idea, but I think CCP should wait for the next wave of rifles, and the changes to AR that result from that before making too many changes now--only to change them again in another 5-6weeks. This game has too much nerf/buff see-sawing as it is. It's still a placeholder and default for all the racial weapons combined. They're going to have to change it at some point anyway. Yeah, but a lot of people are spec-ed into ARs(myself included, even tho I don't use em that much anymore)
I honestly wouldn't mind any changes made to the AR just so long as it's still usable. Still need it for my Gallente Assault suit since it's the only hybrid weapon that's really useful for what I do with the suit. |
Kam Elto
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
75
|
Posted - 2013.09.24 15:07:00 -
[108] - Quote
Heavies need a LMG asap!!! |
Keri Starlight
Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
465
|
Posted - 2013.09.24 15:29:00 -
[109] - Quote
To answer the OP, I'm pretty sure it's because people don't die with 4 shots in this game. |
Monkey MAC
killer taxi company General Tso's Alliance
681
|
Posted - 2013.09.24 15:36:00 -
[110] - Quote
Some random dude with a gun wrote:Cosgar wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:Blondie Roads wrote:[quote=Monkey MAC]
Guns go of them selves all the time, you have concentrated a highly explosive material into a condensed space, its volatile! Try telling my friend from cadets bullets don't spontaneously fire, he broke his collarbone while he had the safety on! Try telling my perfectly unblemished gun case full of loaded guns and not one misfire. Again its people aiming loaded guns in an unintended direction.. Not guns spontaneously going off. Besides what do accidents have to do with clip sizes. Laws don't work for the lawless. Because You don't leave rounds in a gun, in a friggin gun case! You put the bullets in an ammo box away from direct heat like the sun, a gun isn't going to go off if there is no round to go off. If you are leaving loaded guns in your gun case I fear for your safety. However in terms of a gun an unloaded gun killing someone The power of the spring in the firing mechanism of an SA80 is enough to punch all the way through the skullmof the guy cleaning it. But we are getting off topic, what is the actual downside to an ar? large mag fast reload very little kick very little dispersion large ammo reserve long range fully automatic high rof high damage no overheat Of that list every other weapon can safely say 1 of those at least is wrong, but not the ar, it needs a drawback! The only drawback the AR needs is to be average in all situations instead of dominant like it is right now. Jack of all trades, master of none and all that... Edit: Anyone else having issues with quotes?
Someone missed the top half of a quote ill fix it here, true but the assault rifle which will become the blaster rifle, doesn't have drwbacks, unlike the scrambler rifle, which is actually a laser assault rifle. The minmatar will have an acog scope which makes hard to use in cqc and a low mag size, while the rail rifle will have a low rate of fire.
The weapons go something like this.
Assault - Short Range, Full Auto Gallante Burst - Short/Mid Range, Burst (obviously ) Minmatar Charge - Mid/Long Range, semi Auto, charge ability Amarr Tac - Long Range, Semi Auto Caldari
Each race will attempt to mimic each other in the other ranges, and do relatively well, but each race will shine in its base range! There will be no difinitive jack of all trades.
But instead 16 rifles, who between them profcient everywhere! And because of how the skill tree works it gives you 4 weapons for the price of 1. Alowing you to swap and change dependent on the enemies you face! |
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Monkey MAC
killer taxi company General Tso's Alliance
681
|
Posted - 2013.09.24 15:37:00 -
[111] - Quote
Kam Elto wrote:Heavies need a LMG asap!!!
HMG fills that role! |
Meeko Fent
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
984
|
Posted - 2013.09.24 15:55:00 -
[112] - Quote
If we reduce the bullets per clip, their gonna want each bullet to do more damage, and then we will need to lower the ROF so its DPS isn't WWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYYYY Moar OP then it is now. |
Killar-12
The Corporate Raiders Top Men.
1241
|
Posted - 2013.09.24 15:59:00 -
[113] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Well I liked the original AR from Halo 1 and it felt balanced back then, but you could only reload it twice before you magged out but it was no instant killer like our Plasma Rifles are. Oh ****, IWS said the AR is unbalanced? |
Cosgar
ParagonX
5413
|
Posted - 2013.09.24 16:06:00 -
[114] - Quote
Cody Sietz wrote:Cosgar wrote:Vell0cet wrote:This isn't a bad idea, but I think CCP should wait for the next wave of rifles, and the changes to AR that result from that before making too many changes now--only to change them again in another 5-6weeks. This game has too much nerf/buff see-sawing as it is. It's still a placeholder and default for all the racial weapons combined. They're going to have to change it at some point anyway. Yeah, but a lot of people are spec-ed into ARs(myself included, even tho I don't use em that much anymore) I honestly wouldn't mind any changes made to the AR just so long as it's still usable. Still need it for my Gallente Assault suit since it's the only hybrid weapon that's really useful for what I do with the suit. Gallente Assault still needs a better bonus, maybe a movement penalty reduction to actually work with the AR once they re-balance it. I still find it weird to see anything Gallente fighting without drones, but I guess not everything from EVE is expected to translate to Dust. |
XOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXO XOXOXOXOXOXO
Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State
314
|
Posted - 2013.09.24 16:08:00 -
[115] - Quote
Keri Starlight wrote:To answer the OP, I'm pretty sure it's because people don't die with 4 shots in this game. try running a scout
in a cqc or any range of combat then comeback and edit your comment |
Zero Harpuia
Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance
1017
|
Posted - 2013.09.24 16:40:00 -
[116] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:God only Knows who wrote:Some random dude with a gun wrote:Cosgar wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:
Guns go of them selves all the time, you have concentrated a highly explosive material into a condensed space, its volatile! Try telling my friend from cadets bullets don't spontaneously fire, he broke his collarbone while he had the safety on!
Try telling my perfectly unblemished gun case full of loaded guns and not one misfire. Again its people aiming loaded guns in an unintended direction.. Not guns spontaneously going off. Besides what do accidents have to do with clip sizes. Laws don't work for the lawless. Because You don't leave rounds in a gun, in a friggin gun case! You put the bullets in an ammo box away from direct heat like the sun, a gun isn't going to go off if there is no round to go off. If you are leaving loaded guns in your gun case I fear for your safety. However in terms of a gun an unloaded gun killing someone The power of the spring in the firing mechanism of an SA80 is enough to punch all the way through the skullmof the guy cleaning it. But we are getting off topic, what is the actual downside to an ar? large mag fast reload very little kick very little dispersion large ammo reserve long range fully automatic high rof high damage no overheat Of that list every other weapon can safely say 1 of those at least is wrong, but not the ar, it needs a drawback! The only drawback the AR needs is to be average in all situations instead of dominant like it is right now. Jack of all trades, master of none and all that... Edit: Anyone else having issues with quotes? Someone missed the top half of a quote ill fix it here, true but the assault rifle which will become the blaster rifle, doesn't have drwbacks, unlike the scrambler rifle, which is actually a laser assault rifle. The minmatar will have an acog scope which makes hard to use in cqc and a low mag size, while the rail rifle will have a low rate of fire. The weapons go something like this. Assault - Short Range, Full Auto Gallante Burst - Short/Mid Range, Burst (obviously ) Minmatar Charge - Mid/Long Range, semi Auto, charge ability Amarr Tac - Long Range, Semi Auto Caldari Each race will attempt to mimic each other in the other ranges, and do relatively well, but each race will shine in its base range! There will be no difinitive jack of all trades. But instead 16 rifles, who between them profcient everywhere! And because of how the skill tree works it gives you 4 weapons for the price of 1. Alowing you to swap and change dependent on the enemies you face!
...once again, wrong. I'm making a thread on this gawddammit. Asking for a DEV sticky and everything.
The GALLENTE Rifle is the ASSAULT. The MINMATAR Rifle is the BURST. The AMARR Rifle is the TACTICAL. The CALDARI Rifle is the BREACH.
Got it memorized? |
Monkey MAC
killer taxi company General Tso's Alliance
685
|
Posted - 2013.09.24 16:47:00 -
[117] - Quote
Zero Harpuia wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:God only Knows who wrote:Some random dude with a gun wrote:Cosgar wrote:
Try telling my perfectly unblemished gun case full of loaded guns and not one misfire. Again its people aiming loaded guns in an unintended direction.. Not guns spontaneously going off. Besides what do accidents have to do with clip sizes. Laws don't work for the lawless.
Because You don't leave rounds in a gun, in a friggin gun case! You put the bullets in an ammo box away from direct heat like the sun, a gun isn't going to go off if there is no round to go off. If you are leaving loaded guns in your gun case I fear for your safety. However in terms of a gun an unloaded gun killing someone The power of the spring in the firing mechanism of an SA80 is enough to punch all the way through the skullmof the guy cleaning it. But we are getting off topic, what is the actual downside to an ar? large mag fast reload very little kick very little dispersion large ammo reserve long range fully automatic high rof high damage no overheat Of that list every other weapon can safely say 1 of those at least is wrong, but not the ar, it needs a drawback! The only drawback the AR needs is to be average in all situations instead of dominant like it is right now. Jack of all trades, master of none and all that... Edit: Anyone else having issues with quotes? Someone missed the top half of a quote ill fix it here, true but the assault rifle which will become the blaster rifle, doesn't have drwbacks, unlike the scrambler rifle, which is actually a laser assault rifle. The minmatar will have an acog scope which makes hard to use in cqc and a low mag size, while the rail rifle will have a low rate of fire. The weapons go something like this. Assault - Short Range, Full Auto Gallante Burst - Short/Mid Range, Burst (obviously ) Minmatar Charge - Mid/Long Range, semi Auto, charge ability Amarr Tac - Long Range, Semi Auto Caldari Each race will attempt to mimic each other in the other ranges, and do relatively well, but each race will shine in its base range! There will be no difinitive jack of all trades. But instead 16 rifles, who between them profcient everywhere! And because of how the skill tree works it gives you 4 weapons for the price of 1. Alowing you to swap and change dependent on the enemies you face! ...once again, wrong. I'm making a thread on this gawddammit. Asking for a DEV sticky and everything. The GALLENTE Rifle is the ASSAULT. The MINMATAR Rifle is the BURST. The AMARR Rifle is the TACTICAL. The CALDARI Rifle is the BREACH. Got it memorized?
Breach variation of ar has a shorter range, the act of breaching by definition is close quaters!!
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Cosgar
ParagonX
5417
|
Posted - 2013.09.24 16:52:00 -
[118] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:Breach variation of ar has a shorter range, the act of breaching by definition is close quaters!! Unless Remnant got it wrong, the breach AR really is going to be the rail rifle. I'd imagine that the only persistent trait will be the low RoF but he did say breach = Caldari. |
Monkey MAC
killer taxi company General Tso's Alliance
685
|
Posted - 2013.09.24 17:06:00 -
[119] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:Breach variation of ar has a shorter range, the act of breaching by definition is close quaters!! Unless Remnant got it wrong, the breach AR really is going to be the rail rifle. I'd imagine that the only persistent trait will be the low RoF but he did say breach = Caldari.
Fair enough, I just don't necessarily use dev info, they have a knack for changing there minds! |
Cody Sietz
Bullet Cluster
1022
|
Posted - 2013.09.24 20:09:00 -
[120] - Quote
See I always figured the breach AR was going to be the Gallente rifle. Someone corrected me the other day that it's meant to the Caldari rifle.
But that's where I'm confused, aren't Gallente meant to be High dmg, low range rifles? |
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