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ADAM-OF-EVE Svartur Bjorn Neo Terra Empire 298	Posted - 2013.09.19 21:02:00 - [1] - Quote 1)driver drives and operates front turret and tanking modules 2)main gunner operates main turret and turret modules. 3)top gunner is exposed out of the top turret like on an lav. double tank ehp due to complexity of new tank controls. no more solo tanking. add in complete lock out on tanks by the owner. when he/she calls it in it is locked completely until he/she unlocks it for crew or it is hacked by the enemy. this allows them to select the position in the tank they want. they can also unlock for squad only or free for all. add in climbing in and out of vehicles to commit people to the tank crew and not just instant hitch a ride or hide. vehicle views would have to be tweaked slightly. driver would get a front view screen only which incorporates his /hers forward turret. main gunner would have full allround view as the tank driver currently gets while not in turret view. this comes at the expense of having your head out the top of the turret. when in turret mode you are no longer exposed but have only the turret zoom view. the top gunner is always exposed but has an extended view of the area around the tank. his turret would have a forward shield for shield tanks and an arm shield for arm tanks. he is completely protected from the direction his turret is facing.. the full crew makes the tank very effective when they work together. if 1 is taken out then this effectiveness is reduced. when the tank is in full combat mode then the top gunner is the general allround eyes. if he is taken out then its doen to the main gunner who is now at a reduced visual effectiveness. this basicly allows players to disable tanks without actually needing to destroy them
Void Echo Morsus Mihi Aperuitque Imperium 1434	Posted - 2013.09.19 21:06:00 - [2] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: 1)driver drives and operates front turret and tanking modules 2)main gunner operates main turret and turret modules. 3)top gunner is exposed out of the top turret like on an lav. double tank ehp due to complexity of new tank controls. no more solo tanking. add in complete lock out on tanks by the owner. when he/she calls it in it is locked completely until he/she unlocks it for crew or it is hacked by the enemy. this allows them to select the position in the tank they want. they can also unlock for squad only or free for all. add in climbing in and out of vehicles to commit people to the tank crew and not just instant hitch a ride or hide. vehicle views would have to be tweaked slightly. driver would get a front view screen only which incorporates his /hers forward turret. main gunner would have full allround view as the tank driver currently gets while not in turret view. this comes at the expense of having your head out the top of the turret. when in turret mode you are no longer exposed but have only the turret zoom view. the top gunner is always exposed but has an extended view of the area around the tank. his turret would have a forward shield for shield tanks and an arm shield for arm tanks. he is completely protected from the direction his turret is facing.. the full crew makes the tank very effective when they work together. if 1 is taken out then this effectiveness is reduced. when the tank is in full combat mode then the top gunner is the general allround eyes. if he is taken out then its doen to the main gunner who is now at a reduced visual effectiveness. this basicly allows players to disable tanks without actually needing to destroy them 1. no 2. no 3. no 4. no 5. no 6. no everything else.... no
sixteensixty4 CAUSE 4 C0NCERN 90	Posted - 2013.09.19 21:07:00 - [3] - Quote So what about lone wolf tankers... They just dont get to tank anymore, or only have the small turret? oh and not forgetting we now cant look behind us.... you didnt really think this through now did you?
The Attorney General ZionTCD 961	Posted - 2013.09.19 21:07:00 - [4] - Quote lol no. Who skills the turret skills? Who pays for the tank? Unless all three can split the cost and the SP investment, it will never fly. No one is going to skill into something that they then need to find a friend to help them use. Also, having the main gunner have any part of his body exposed is absurd. There is a reason why militaries are going to RC turrets, because putting yourself in the open is pretty dumb. So why, in the far flung future would it even remotely be considered?
ADAM-OF-EVE Svartur Bjorn Neo Terra Empire 298	Posted - 2013.09.19 21:08:00 - [5] - Quote sixteensixty4 wrote: So what about lone wolf tankers... They just dont get to tank anymore, or only have the small turret? oh and not forgetting we now cant look behind us.... you didnt really think this through now did you? actually i did, although i have an idea on this so give me a few mins to amend
True Adamance PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 2121	Posted - 2013.09.19 21:09:00 - [6] - Quote Void Echo wrote: ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: 1)driver drives and operates front turret and tanking modules 2)main gunner operates main turret and turret modules. 3)top gunner is exposed out of the top turret like on an lav. double tank ehp due to complexity of new tank controls. no more solo tanking. add in complete lock out on tanks by the owner. when he/she calls it in it is locked completely until he/she unlocks it for crew or it is hacked by the enemy. this allows them to select the position in the tank they want. they can also unlock for squad only or free for all. add in climbing in and out of vehicles to commit people to the tank crew and not just instant hitch a ride or hide. vehicle views would have to be tweaked slightly. driver would get a front view screen only which incorporates his /hers forward turret. main gunner would have full allround view as the tank driver currently gets while not in turret view. this comes at the expense of having your head out the top of the turret. when in turret mode you are no longer exposed but have only the turret zoom view. the top gunner is always exposed but has an extended view of the area around the tank. his turret would have a forward shield for shield tanks and an arm shield for arm tanks. he is completely protected from the direction his turret is facing.. the full crew makes the tank very effective when they work together. if 1 is taken out then this effectiveness is reduced. when the tank is in full combat mode then the top gunner is the general allround eyes. if he is taken out then its doen to the main gunner who is now at a reduced visual effectiveness. this basicly allows players to disable tanks without actually needing to destroy them 1. no 2. no 3. no 4. no 5. no 6. no everything else.... hmm let me think.. ah, no dude I don't want t have to look for 3 dedicated and good players just to drive a ******* vehicle.
sixteensixty4 CAUSE 4 C0NCERN 90	Posted - 2013.09.19 21:09:00 - [7] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: sixteensixty4 wrote: So what about lone wolf tankers... They just dont get to tank anymore, or only have the small turret? oh and not forgetting we now cant look behind us.... you didnt really think this through now did you? actually i did, although i have an idea on this so give me a few mins to amend lol honestly, just dont bother
Void Echo Morsus Mihi Aperuitque Imperium 1434	Posted - 2013.09.19 21:11:00 - [8] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Void Echo wrote: ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: 1)driver drives and operates front turret and tanking modules 2)main gunner operates main turret and turret modules. 3)top gunner is exposed out of the top turret like on an lav. double tank ehp due to complexity of new tank controls. no more solo tanking. add in complete lock out on tanks by the owner. when he/she calls it in it is locked completely until he/she unlocks it for crew or it is hacked by the enemy. this allows them to select the position in the tank they want. they can also unlock for squad only or free for all. add in climbing in and out of vehicles to commit people to the tank crew and not just instant hitch a ride or hide. vehicle views would have to be tweaked slightly. driver would get a front view screen only which incorporates his /hers forward turret. main gunner would have full allround view as the tank driver currently gets while not in turret view. this comes at the expense of having your head out the top of the turret. when in turret mode you are no longer exposed but have only the turret zoom view. the top gunner is always exposed but has an extended view of the area around the tank. his turret would have a forward shield for shield tanks and an arm shield for arm tanks. he is completely protected from the direction his turret is facing.. the full crew makes the tank very effective when they work together. if 1 is taken out then this effectiveness is reduced. when the tank is in full combat mode then the top gunner is the general allround eyes. if he is taken out then its doen to the main gunner who is now at a reduced visual effectiveness. this basicly allows players to disable tanks without actually needing to destroy them 1. no 2. no 3. no 4. no 5. no 6. no everything else.... hmm let me think.. ah, no dude I don't want t have to look for 3 dedicated and good players just to drive a ******* vehicle. tell that to OP, not me
ADAM-OF-EVE Svartur Bjorn Neo Terra Empire 298	Posted - 2013.09.19 21:16:00 - [9] - Quote so much hostility. even mention "change" and "tank" in the same sentence and tank drivers lose it lol. there is a reason why there will always be issues with tanks and its nothing to do with the tanks themselves
The Attorney General ZionTCD 963	Posted - 2013.09.19 21:16:00 - [10] - Quote I'm just amazed this guy actually came up with this idea, and no one he knows told him that was just stupid. He needs better friends to test his ideas on first.

Void Echo Morsus Mihi Aperuitque Imperium 1434	Posted - 2013.09.19 21:19:00 - [11] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: so much hostility. even mention "change" and "tank" in the same sentence and tank drivers lose it lol. there is a reason why there will always be issues with tanks and its nothing to do with the tanks themselves changes are fine, but don't expect us to go along with an idea that effectively kills the incentive to skill into tanks all together. no tanker would skill into tanks just to drive them around and have to depend on randoms to do the killing or driving for them. don't bother redoing your original post, you already sold us the idea that you don't know how to think.
sixteensixty4 CAUSE 4 C0NCERN 91	Posted - 2013.09.19 21:20:00 - [12] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: so much hostility. even mention "change" and "tank" in the same sentence and tank drivers lose it lol. there is a reason why there will always be issues with tanks and its nothing to do with the tanks themselves well like i said, your idea just cut out the lone wolf player to use them..... and even if you do play with friends and have corp mates, what if there not online when you are... its not a case of being hostile, its a case of your " idea" fecking blows
The Attorney General ZionTCD 967	Posted - 2013.09.19 21:22:00 - [13] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: so much hostility. even mention "change" and "tank" in the same sentence and tank drivers lose it lol. there is a reason why there will always be issues with tanks and its nothing to do with the tanks themselves Bad idea is bad. Person who puts it forward gets slagged for not even thinking. Because really, your idea was so flawed, that even though it has been put forward by others, and you could have found it with a search, you just had to put it out there, of course the tankers are going to take a dump on you. Don't delude yourself into thinking it is because we are hostile to change, because we are not, we want changes, just not stupid pointless changes that would eliminate the entire role we are trying to protect.
True Adamance PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 2121	Posted - 2013.09.19 21:28:00 - [14] - Quote Void Echo wrote: True Adamance wrote: Void Echo wrote: ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: 1)driver drives and operates front turret and tanking modules 2)main gunner operates main turret and turret modules. 3)top gunner is exposed out of the top turret like on an lav. double tank ehp due to complexity of new tank controls. no more solo tanking. add in complete lock out on tanks by the owner. when he/she calls it in it is locked completely until he/she unlocks it for crew or it is hacked by the enemy. this allows them to select the position in the tank they want. they can also unlock for squad only or free for all. add in climbing in and out of vehicles to commit people to the tank crew and not just instant hitch a ride or hide. vehicle views would have to be tweaked slightly. driver would get a front view screen only which incorporates his /hers forward turret. main gunner would have full allround view as the tank driver currently gets while not in turret view. this comes at the expense of having your head out the top of the turret. when in turret mode you are no longer exposed but have only the turret zoom view. the top gunner is always exposed but has an extended view of the area around the tank. his turret would have a forward shield for shield tanks and an arm shield for arm tanks. he is completely protected from the direction his turret is facing.. the full crew makes the tank very effective when they work together. if 1 is taken out then this effectiveness is reduced. when the tank is in full combat mode then the top gunner is the general allround eyes. if he is taken out then its doen to the main gunner who is now at a reduced visual effectiveness. this basicly allows players to disable tanks without actually needing to destroy them 1. no 2. no 3. no 4. no 5. no 6. no everything else.... hmm let me think.. ah, no dude I don't want t have to look for 3 dedicated and good players just to drive a ******* vehicle. tell that to OP, not me Quoting you both for effect.
Mobius Wyvern Guardian Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY 3634	Posted - 2013.09.19 21:42:00 - [15] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: 1)driver drives and operates front turret and tanking modules 2)main gunner operates main turret and turret modules. 3)top gunner is exposed out of the top turret like on an lav. double tank ehp due to complexity of new tank controls. no more solo tanking. add in complete lock out on tanks by the owner. when he/she calls it in it is locked completely until he/she unlocks it for crew or it is hacked by the enemy. this allows them to select the position in the tank they want. they can also unlock for squad only or free for all. add in climbing in and out of vehicles to commit people to the tank crew and not just instant hitch a ride or hide. vehicle views would have to be tweaked slightly. driver would get a front view screen only which incorporates his /hers forward turret. main gunner would have full allround view as the tank driver currently gets while not in turret view. this comes at the expense of having your head out the top of the turret. when in turret mode you are no longer exposed but have only the turret zoom view. the top gunner is always exposed but has an extended view of the area around the tank. his turret would have a forward shield for shield tanks and an arm shield for arm tanks. he is completely protected from the direction his turret is facing.. the full crew makes the tank very effective when they work together. if 1 is taken out then this effectiveness is reduced. when the tank is in full combat mode then the top gunner is the general allround eyes. if he is taken out then its doen to the main gunner who is now at a reduced visual effectiveness. this basicly allows players to disable tanks without actually needing to destroy them You are going to get ** on. I tried to propose this myself many times, and got ** on. You're not going to get any traction with this. I mean, most of the people here want to be able to take the Small Turrets off because it OFFENDS them that there might be someone else using their vehicle while they are.
ADAM-OF-EVE Svartur Bjorn Neo Terra Empire 299	Posted - 2013.09.19 21:43:00 - [16] - Quote problem is tanks should have always been squad assets from the get go. biggest mistake CCP made was letting any tom,**** and harry with delusions of grandeur buy and use them. this only made everyone who used them feel they should be able to kill everything solo because they spent all the sp and isk on them. until tankers get it out of their heads that a tank is for soloing then nothing ccp does is going to fix tanks and your only hurting your own profession by not accepting suggestions even offering constructive criticism on the bad suggestions. it all adds to the bigger picture. simply asking for hp buffs or av nerfs is not going to fix nothing because the core of the tank role is so messed up to start with
sixteensixty4 CAUSE 4 C0NCERN 91	Posted - 2013.09.19 21:48:00 - [17] - Quote Mobius Wyvern wrote: I mean, most of the people here want to be able to take the Small Turrets off because it OFFENDS them that there might be someone else using their vehicle while they are. im just going to repost from another thread i posted in, but its not a case of it offends people, more so a case of stupid troll blues that use the turrets "Maybe some people dont like there kills being stolen, i dunno but its generally a pain when you want to recall your tank, maybe av's a little to much, or you just want to swap fits or turrets, and the blue just wont move, they sit there the whole match sometimes just fireing at the floor and walls and nothing,,,,, and if you you do just lump it and drive around with some tard fireing at nothing, its off putting, the constant noise of the other turret, the blue shield flash when they fire at floor, i always feel like i want to turn around to see what they are fireing at just incase a red is there is there, then low and behold... nothing once in a blue moon you will get a sound gunner, that will watch your six and actually fire at reds, and its pretty cool and a good help when they do, but its also very rare"
The Attorney General ZionTCD 971	Posted - 2013.09.19 21:49:00 - [18] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: problem is tanks should have always been squad assets from the get go. biggest mistake CCP made was letting any tom,**** and harry with delusions of grandeur buy and use them. this only made everyone who used them feel they should be able to kill everything solo because they spent all the sp and isk on them. until tankers get it out of their heads that a tank is for soloing then nothing ccp does is going to fix tanks and your only hurting your own profession by not accepting suggestions even offering constructive criticism on the bad suggestions. it all adds to the bigger picture. simply asking for hp buffs or av nerfs is not going to fix nothing because the core of the tank role is so messed up to start with See this is where we differ. You think vehicles need a drastic overhaul why exactly? I don't think tanks need huge buffs, and I really don't think AV needs to be harshly nerfed. Tank v FG is fun and engaging for both parties. Tank v Swarm is ridiculous when the swarm user does not draw, but other than that, a slight extension of the mag dump time would be enough. AV nades just need to have their fitting costs jacked way the hell up. There is no need for an infantryman to have a pocket AV solution that doesn't cost him in either weapons to use against infantry, or major restrictions to his suit. It destroys the idea of tank>infantry>AV>Tank Now I could flip your ridiculous assumptions back onto you, but I know you are not bright enough to perform meaningful self examination without having a nosebleed and needing your mother to come and put you to bed so I will save us all the trouble.
The Attorney General ZionTCD 971	Posted - 2013.09.19 21:52:00 - [19] - Quote Mobius Wyvern wrote: I mean, most of the people here want to be able to take the Small Turrets off because it OFFENDS them that there might be someone else using their vehicle while they are. You ever had an infantryman ride in your tank and refuse to hop out, even when you are under seige and he could actually kill the AV troop that is going to destroy you? I have, more times than I can count. You ever have an blue hop in to your whip, and start randomly firing at the enemy MCC for the duration of the match? I have, once again, more times than I can count. Removing small turrets actually helps out the infantry on the ground, because it now means that the AFK'ing scrub who is sitting in my turrets has to actually get out and do something, instead of collecting free WP off of my work. I have tanks built for gunners. I call them when I am playing with people I know and trust. That is when turrets are useful, not when someone who is not on mic, and is plainly handicapped is just along for the ride.
Void Echo Morsus Mihi Aperuitque Imperium 1434	Posted - 2013.09.19 21:52:00 - [20] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: problem is tanks should have always been squad assets from the get go. biggest mistake CCP made was letting any tom,**** and harry with delusions of grandeur buy and use them. this only made everyone who used them feel they should be able to kill everything solo because they spent all the sp and isk on them. until tankers get it out of their heads that a tank is for soloing then nothing ccp does is going to fix tanks and your only hurting your own profession by not accepting suggestions even offering constructive criticism on the bad suggestions. it all adds to the bigger picture. simply asking for hp buffs or av nerfs is not going to fix nothing because the core of the tank role is so messed up to start with the biggest mistake they did was allow COD scrubs to get in on the action and demand everything be like cod, look at where we are now

sixteensixty4 CAUSE 4 C0NCERN 92	Posted - 2013.09.19 21:57:00 - [21] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: problem is tanks should have always been squad assets from the get go. biggest mistake CCP made was letting any tom,** and harry with delusions of grandeur buy and use them. this only made everyone who used them feel they should be able to kill everything solo because they spent all the sp and isk on them. until tankers get it out of their heads that a tank is for soloing then nothing ccp does is going to fix tanks and your only hurting your own profession by not accepting suggestions even offering constructive criticism on the bad suggestions. it all adds to the bigger picture. simply asking for hp buffs or av nerfs is not going to fix nothing because the core of the tank role is so messed up to start with If a fecking titan in eve uses all his own weapons and modules, then im pretty fecking sure my piddily little tank can also The support for a tank, is either, good gunners in the aux turrets, or YOU the ***** infantry, preferably both and regarding offering constructive criticism on your idea, maybe you would have got some, if you had just thought about it, come on, your idea is fecking stupid for reasons already mentioned you basicly just sh!t on anyone that doesnt role in a corp, or as i said already, maybe you wont have friends online when you are and as my post above this, you cant trust random blues to main the turrets when 90% of them just want troll you
jerrmy12 kahoalii Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 1	Posted - 2013.09.19 21:59:00 - [22] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: problem is tanks should have always been squad assets from the get go. biggest mistake CCP made was letting any tom,**** and harry with delusions of grandeur buy and use them. this only made everyone who used them feel they should be able to kill everything solo because they spent all the sp and isk on them. until tankers get it out of their heads that a tank is for soloing then nothing ccp does is going to fix tanks and your only hurting your own profession by not accepting suggestions even offering constructive criticism on the bad suggestions. it all adds to the bigger picture. simply asking for hp buffs or av nerfs is not going to fix nothing because the core of the tank role is so messed up to start with i guess 1 person out of a 16 person team that takes out a tank easily if fine, imagine if 2 or more stepped in.................you get it?
negative49er Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 166	Posted - 2013.09.19 22:02:00 - [23] - Quote Don't bring battlefield into dust
ADAM-OF-EVE Svartur Bjorn Neo Terra Empire 299	Posted - 2013.09.19 22:12:00 - [24] - Quote sixteensixty4 wrote: ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: problem is tanks should have always been squad assets from the get go. biggest mistake CCP made was letting any tom,** and harry with delusions of grandeur buy and use them. this only made everyone who used them feel they should be able to kill everything solo because they spent all the sp and isk on them. until tankers get it out of their heads that a tank is for soloing then nothing ccp does is going to fix tanks and your only hurting your own profession by not accepting suggestions even offering constructive criticism on the bad suggestions. it all adds to the bigger picture. simply asking for hp buffs or av nerfs is not going to fix nothing because the core of the tank role is so messed up to start with If a fecking titan in eve uses all his own weapons and modules, then im pretty fecking sure my piddily little tank can also The support for a tank, is either, good gunners in the aux turrets, or YOU the ***** infantry, preferably both and regarding offering constructive criticism on your idea, maybe you would have got some, if you had just thought about it, come on, your idea is fecking stupid for reasons already mentioned you basicly just sh!t on anyone that doesnt role in a corp, or as i said already, maybe you wont have friends online when you are and as my post above this, you cant trust random blues to main the turrets when 90% of them just want troll you you are the perfect example of why tanks will never be fixed. me,me,me,me,me. and hostility towards any change that is not a buff a pod pilot is nothing like a dust merc. a pod pilot is wired directly into his craft. a merc just drives it with his arms and legs. absolutely no comparison there. also you have it wrong. the tank is there to support the troops on the ground who actually capture stuff to win the fight. not the other way round. another delusion of the tank driver you gave no reasons until now why it was bad, oh yes you did, what was it, i cant solo tank with your idea. more me,me,me as for people not being online to man your vehicle. well congratulations you found a flaw and gave constructive criticism on it. gold star to this guy. we are making progress.
CharCharOdell Shining Flame Amarr Empire 912	Posted - 2013.09.19 22:13:00 - [25] - Quote Lol....only if PG is tripled, damage and fire rate of turrets is increased 200% and we get vehicle locks.
The Attorney General ZionTCD 973	Posted - 2013.09.19 22:15:00 - [26] - Quote Fine, heavies can't spawn unless there is a logi in their squad, with a rep tool equipped. No one is allowed to use equipment until the SL calls for it using the radial menu. AV weapons cannot be spawned in until a vehicle is lit on your tacnet. All these things promote teamwork, and would be for the good of the game.
sixteensixty4 CAUSE 4 C0NCERN 92	Posted - 2013.09.19 22:20:00 - [27] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: you are the perfect example of why tanks will never be fixed. me,me,me,me,me. and hostility towards any change that is not a buff a pod pilot is nothing like a dust merc. a pod pilot is wired directly into his craft. a merc just drives it with his arms and legs. absolutely no comparison there. also you have it wrong. the tank is there to support the troops on the ground who actually capture stuff to win the fight. not the other way round. another delusion of the tank driver you gave no reasons why it was bad, oh yes you did, what was it, i cant solo tank with your idea. more me,me,me as for people not being online to man your vehicle. well congratulations you found a flaw and gave constructive criticism on it. gold star to this guy. we are making progress. if you wanna boring job of checking my post history on this toon and my main "gbh08" you would see i constant argue with the other tankers, as i dont think tanks are in too bad a place, i've never asked for a nerf on av, or some crazy buff on tanks, your see i love my shield tank and i use it more than my main assualt toon who has more sp my complaint with tanks is amour vs shield tanks, as with there reppers and hardeners and slot layout , they seem to have the 1up over shield tanks regarding "me me me", i play solo, i dont role in a corp, so you basicly just killed tanks for me, of course im going to complain and if you ever see me tank, your see i only play skirm and i follow the blues and support them the best i can and guard objectives and help blues take it so yeah, you got that all wrong
Blaze Ashra Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 11	Posted - 2013.09.19 22:45:00 - [28] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: 1)Infantry walks and Is tethered to other infantry playrs. 2)Squad leader gives commands and drags around squad. 3)Squadmates cant attack anything without an attack comand on it. double infantry ehp due to complexity of new playstyle. no more lone wolfing. add in complete lock out on movement by the owner. when he/she spawns in their controls are locked completely until he/she is given a ralley command. this allows them to select the position we attack. they can also be auto squaded if not in a squad on entryl. add in weapon prevention to make infantry more diverse rather than AR, Swarms and forge guns rulling the battlefield. infantry views would have to be tweaked slightly, move the camera 1 foot behind the player aiming at the lower back of the player and make the maximum rendering range 10 meters so they get what dropships are going through. squad leaderwould get a map view screen only which incorporates his /hers map overview, radar for squaddies disabled add second in command who has full all round view of their surroundings when squad leader goes down. this comes at the expense of using his weapon while in command. when backing up the squad leader he gets a 15 meter render range and 25% damage boost. other infantry is always exposed but can ping things for the squad leader to address. they would have a rear shields to prevent flanking manouvers.. the full squad makes the squad leader very effective when they work together. if 1 is taken out then this effectiveness is reduced. when the squad is in full combat mode then the second in command is the general allround eyes. if he is taken out then its doen to your squadmates who are now at a reduced visual effectiveness. this basicly allows players to disable teamwork without actually needing to destroy it PS. Increase dropsuit prices to 500k and light weapons to 1 million isk. How about an alternative proposal? Pretty much what you're pushing for only your affected by it. The PS part I added and it should be fairly obvious because of the capitalization present.
knight of 6 SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 287	Posted - 2013.09.19 23:17:00 - [29] - Quote what void is trying to say is NO! every tanker is against this idea. no offense but you guys are morons.(offense intended). this idea is not new, original, or going to fix anything, soon(tm) we wont need small turrets at all IMO one less place for idiots to AFK or make a nuisance of them selves. blueberries in your tank is like the catching the plague it's a death sentence. seriously the only good gunners I have ever had have been other tankers. please stop thinking about the tank as a vehicle(yes that sounds stupid) think about it as a suit(hang on this is going somewhere). it takes a huge SP investment that doesn't transfer benifits to dropsuits gimping tankers as infantry. yet tankers still need to profit because they can't fall back on a free fit that skill bonuses effect. they need maps that don't gimp them further, they need shelter from av and orbitals, believe it or not they are painfully mortal. imagine it like this if you would, you're in a scout suit on a bowl shaped map with only poor cover and all around you are snipers. hard right? now imagine yourself in the same scenario but somebody else is in charge of your gun.
Void Echo Morsus Mihi Aperuitque Imperium 1440	Posted - 2013.09.20 00:05:00 - [30] - Quote knight of 6 wrote: what void is trying to say is NO! every tanker is against this idea. no offense but you guys are morons.(offense intended). this idea is not new, original, or going to fix anything, soon(tm) we wont need small turrets at all IMO one less place for idiots to AFK or make a nuisance of them selves. blueberries in your tank is like the catching the plague it's a death sentence. seriously the only good gunners I have ever had have been other tankers. please stop thinking about the tank as a vehicle(yes that sounds stupid) think about it as a suit(hang on this is going somewhere). it takes a huge SP investment that doesn't transfer benifits to dropsuits gimping tankers as infantry. yet tankers still need to profit because they can't fall back on a free fit that skill bonuses effect. they need maps that don't gimp them further, they need shelter from av and orbitals, believe it or not they are painfully mortal. imagine it like this if you would, you're in a scout suit on a bowl shaped map with only poor cover and all around you are snipers. hard right? now imagine yourself in the same scenario but somebody else is in charge of your gun. that's one way to sum it up. with the way it is no also, asking a tank to go into the battle and try to help the team is like telling a scout to charge into a full squad of heavies.

Gabriella Grey XERCORE E X T E R M I N A T U S 70	Posted - 2013.09.20 10:21:00 - [31] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: 1)driver drives and operates front turret and tanking modules 2)main gunner operates main turret and turret modules. 3)top gunner is exposed out of the top turret like on an lav. double tank ehp due to complexity of new tank controls. no more solo tanking. add in complete lock out on tanks by the owner. when he/she calls it in it is locked completely until he/she unlocks it for crew or it is hacked by the enemy. this allows them to select the position in the tank they want. they can also unlock for squad only or free for all. add in climbing in and out of vehicles to commit people to the tank crew and not just instant hitch a ride or hide. vehicle views would have to be tweaked slightly. driver would get a front view screen only which incorporates his /hers forward turret. main gunner would have full allround view as the tank driver currently gets while not in turret view. this comes at the expense of having your head out the top of the turret. when in turret mode you are no longer exposed but have only the turret zoom view. the top gunner is always exposed but has an extended view of the area around the tank. his turret would have a forward shield for shield tanks and an arm shield for arm tanks. he is completely protected from the direction his turret is facing.. the full crew makes the tank very effective when they work together. if 1 is taken out then this effectiveness is reduced. when the tank is in full combat mode then the top gunner is the general allround eyes. if he is taken out then its doen to the main gunner who is now at a reduced visual effectiveness. this basicly allows players to disable tanks without actually needing to destroy them I think a good portion of this is great stuff, especially that tanks are a support and team vehicle like all vehicles are meant to be. The only thing of significance that I have no complaint with CCP is on whether the gunner is exposed or not. There are several tanks that in current application do not expose those gunners, but I do hope when the vehicle update comes, these solo HAV users will be addressed or at least encouraged to operate with their squad/team. Even if they are operating solo within their vehicle.
Void Echo Morsus Mihi Aperuitque Imperium 1447	Posted - 2013.09.20 10:28:00 - [32] - Quote Gabriella Grey wrote: ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: 1)driver drives and operates front turret and tanking modules 2)main gunner operates main turret and turret modules. 3)top gunner is exposed out of the top turret like on an lav. double tank ehp due to complexity of new tank controls. no more solo tanking. add in complete lock out on tanks by the owner. when he/she calls it in it is locked completely until he/she unlocks it for crew or it is hacked by the enemy. this allows them to select the position in the tank they want. they can also unlock for squad only or free for all. add in climbing in and out of vehicles to commit people to the tank crew and not just instant hitch a ride or hide. vehicle views would have to be tweaked slightly. driver would get a front view screen only which incorporates his /hers forward turret. main gunner would have full allround view as the tank driver currently gets while not in turret view. this comes at the expense of having your head out the top of the turret. when in turret mode you are no longer exposed but have only the turret zoom view. the top gunner is always exposed but has an extended view of the area around the tank. his turret would have a forward shield for shield tanks and an arm shield for arm tanks. he is completely protected from the direction his turret is facing.. the full crew makes the tank very effective when they work together. if 1 is taken out then this effectiveness is reduced. when the tank is in full combat mode then the top gunner is the general allround eyes. if he is taken out then its doen to the main gunner who is now at a reduced visual effectiveness. this basicly allows players to disable tanks without actually needing to destroy them I think a good portion of this is great stuff, especially that tanks are a support and team vehicle like all vehicles are meant to be. The only thing of significance that I have no complaint with CCP is on whether the gunner is exposed or not. There are several tanks that in current application do not expose those gunners, but I do hope when the vehicle update comes, these solo HAV users will be addressed or at least encouraged to operate with their squad/team. Even if they are operating solo within their vehicle. we already do, its called squading with other tankers, not randoms. we get 1% increase to survivability and we actually get to work people who WE KNOW FOR A FACT will hunt down the enemy AV.
Void Echo Morsus Mihi Aperuitque Imperium 1447	Posted - 2013.09.20 10:31:00 - [33] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: sixteensixty4 wrote: ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: problem is tanks should have always been squad assets from the get go. biggest mistake CCP made was letting any tom,** and harry with delusions of grandeur buy and use them. this only made everyone who used them feel they should be able to kill everything solo because they spent all the sp and isk on them. until tankers get it out of their heads that a tank is for soloing then nothing ccp does is going to fix tanks and your only hurting your own profession by not accepting suggestions even offering constructive criticism on the bad suggestions. it all adds to the bigger picture. simply asking for hp buffs or av nerfs is not going to fix nothing because the core of the tank role is so messed up to start with If a fecking titan in eve uses all his own weapons and modules, then im pretty fecking sure my piddily little tank can also The support for a tank, is either, good gunners in the aux turrets, or YOU the ***** infantry, preferably both and regarding offering constructive criticism on your idea, maybe you would have got some, if you had just thought about it, come on, your idea is fecking stupid for reasons already mentioned you basicly just sh!t on anyone that doesnt role in a corp, or as i said already, maybe you wont have friends online when you are and as my post above this, you cant trust random blues to main the turrets when 90% of them just want troll you you are the perfect example of why tanks will never be fixed. me,me,me,me,me. and hostility towards any change that is not a buff a pod pilot is nothing like a dust merc. a pod pilot is wired directly into his craft. a merc just drives it with his arms and legs. absolutely no comparison there. also you have it wrong. the tank is there to support the troops on the ground who actually capture stuff to win the fight. not the other way round. another delusion of the tank driver you gave no reasons until now why it was bad, oh yes you did, what was it, i cant solo tank with your idea. more me,me,me as for people not being online to man your vehicle. well congratulations you found a flaw and gave constructive criticism on it. gold star to this guy. we are making progress. well, he is making progress, your not. tankers are not the problem here, the nonexistent balance due to infantry crying all the damn time is the problem. we do support the team, when we kill the enemy vehicles and infantry, we keep the field open enough for YOU TO GO IN AND HACK THE OBJECTIVE. but alas there are rarely any competent infantry that get the message.
ladwar Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 1658	Posted - 2013.09.20 10:32:00 - [34] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Void Echo wrote: ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: 1)driver drives and operates front turret and tanking modules 2)main gunner operates main turret and turret modules. 3)top gunner is exposed out of the top turret like on an lav. double tank ehp due to complexity of new tank controls. no more solo tanking. add in complete lock out on tanks by the owner. when he/she calls it in it is locked completely until he/she unlocks it for crew or it is hacked by the enemy. this allows them to select the position in the tank they want. they can also unlock for squad only or free for all. add in climbing in and out of vehicles to commit people to the tank crew and not just instant hitch a ride or hide. vehicle views would have to be tweaked slightly. driver would get a front view screen only which incorporates his /hers forward turret. main gunner would have full allround view as the tank driver currently gets while not in turret view. this comes at the expense of having your head out the top of the turret. when in turret mode you are no longer exposed but have only the turret zoom view. the top gunner is always exposed but has an extended view of the area around the tank. his turret would have a forward shield for shield tanks and an arm shield for arm tanks. he is completely protected from the direction his turret is facing.. the full crew makes the tank very effective when they work together. if 1 is taken out then this effectiveness is reduced. when the tank is in full combat mode then the top gunner is the general allround eyes. if he is taken out then its doen to the main gunner who is now at a reduced visual effectiveness. this basicly allows players to disable tanks without actually needing to destroy them 1. no 2. no 3. no 4. no 5. no 6. no everything else.... hmm let me think.. ah, no dude I don't want t have to look for 3 dedicated and good players just to drive a ******* vehicle. 2 and well the top gunner is needed. to be honest this would only work with squad locking which we don't and have and still might not even come in 1.6. look at PS2 with the harassers, works just fine, but that also have great cost vs worth in vehicles, something we don't have in dust. their vehicle cost make sense for their game, our is just random number thrown together.
Void Echo Morsus Mihi Aperuitque Imperium 1447	Posted - 2013.09.20 10:35:00 - [35] - Quote ladwar wrote: True Adamance wrote: Void Echo wrote: ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: 1)driver drives and operates front turret and tanking modules 2)main gunner operates main turret and turret modules. 3)top gunner is exposed out of the top turret like on an lav. double tank ehp due to complexity of new tank controls. no more solo tanking. add in complete lock out on tanks by the owner. when he/she calls it in it is locked completely until he/she unlocks it for crew or it is hacked by the enemy. this allows them to select the position in the tank they want. they can also unlock for squad only or free for all. add in climbing in and out of vehicles to commit people to the tank crew and not just instant hitch a ride or hide. vehicle views would have to be tweaked slightly. driver would get a front view screen only which incorporates his /hers forward turret. main gunner would have full allround view as the tank driver currently gets while not in turret view. this comes at the expense of having your head out the top of the turret. when in turret mode you are no longer exposed but have only the turret zoom view. the top gunner is always exposed but has an extended view of the area around the tank. his turret would have a forward shield for shield tanks and an arm shield for arm tanks. he is completely protected from the direction his turret is facing.. the full crew makes the tank very effective when they work together. if 1 is taken out then this effectiveness is reduced. when the tank is in full combat mode then the top gunner is the general allround eyes. if he is taken out then its doen to the main gunner who is now at a reduced visual effectiveness. this basicly allows players to disable tanks without actually needing to destroy them 1. no 2. no 3. no 4. no 5. no 6. no everything else.... hmm let me think.. ah, no dude I don't want t have to look for 3 dedicated and good players just to drive a ******* vehicle. 2 and well the top gunner is needed. to be honest this would only work with squad locking which we don't and have and still might not even come in 1.6. look at PS2 with the harassers, works just fine, but that also have great cost vs worth in vehicles, something we don't have in dust. their vehicle cost make sense for their game, our is just random number thrown together. to many tankers, this would only work if they remove tanks from being personal investments A.K.A no SP or ISK at all into tanks, then it would be acceptable to make them like BF.
ADAM-OF-EVE Svartur Bjorn Neo Terra Empire 301	Posted - 2013.09.20 10:51:00 - [36] - Quote Void Echo wrote: ladwar wrote: True Adamance wrote: Void Echo wrote: ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: 1)driver drives and operates front turret and tanking modules 2)main gunner operates main turret and turret modules. 3)top gunner is exposed out of the top turret like on an lav. double tank ehp due to complexity of new tank controls. no more solo tanking. add in complete lock out on tanks by the owner. when he/she calls it in it is locked completely until he/she unlocks it for crew or it is hacked by the enemy. this allows them to select the position in the tank they want. they can also unlock for squad only or free for all. add in climbing in and out of vehicles to commit people to the tank crew and not just instant hitch a ride or hide. vehicle views would have to be tweaked slightly. driver would get a front view screen only which incorporates his /hers forward turret. main gunner would have full allround view as the tank driver currently gets while not in turret view. this comes at the expense of having your head out the top of the turret. when in turret mode you are no longer exposed but have only the turret zoom view. the top gunner is always exposed but has an extended view of the area around the tank. his turret would have a forward shield for shield tanks and an arm shield for arm tanks. he is completely protected from the direction his turret is facing.. the full crew makes the tank very effective when they work together. if 1 is taken out then this effectiveness is reduced. when the tank is in full combat mode then the top gunner is the general allround eyes. if he is taken out then its doen to the main gunner who is now at a reduced visual effectiveness. this basicly allows players to disable tanks without actually needing to destroy them 1. no 2. no 3. no 4. no 5. no 6. no everything else.... hmm let me think.. ah, no dude I don't want t have to look for 3 dedicated and good players just to drive a ******* vehicle. 2 and well the top gunner is needed. to be honest this would only work with squad locking which we don't and have and still might not even come in 1.6. look at PS2 with the harassers, works just fine, but that also have great cost vs worth in vehicles, something we don't have in dust. their vehicle cost make sense for their game, our is just random number thrown together. to many tankers, this would only work if they remove tanks from being personal investments A.K.A no SP or ISK at all into tanks, then it would be acceptable to make them like BF. tanks for WP claim an orbital or claim a tank
Void Echo Morsus Mihi Aperuitque Imperium 1447	Posted - 2013.09.20 10:54:00 - [37] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: [tanks for WP how about ISK, you still cant buy anything with WP, all they are good for are orbital strikes. but still your post is flawed in so many ways... and to top that you even admitted that you want tanks removed from the game (you may have not meant it (no you meant it)), and now your one of the biggest enemies we face as we are trying to achieve balance. after I make this post, this thread will probably be locked for trolling or il just stop posting on this nonsense and let you non-tankers decide the fate of tankers for the 92nd time.
ladwar Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 1658	Posted - 2013.09.20 10:55:00 - [38] - Quote Void Echo wrote: to many tankers, this would only work if they remove tanks from being personal investments A.K.A no SP or ISK at all into tanks, then it would be acceptable to make them like BF. just saying between the broken reward system, the imbalance of ISK and counters balance. its no wonder why tankers are pissed. they are using similar to PS2 TTK for AV vs vehicles without using the same cost vs worth. where as cost is low and is gained passively in PS2 and in dust cost is high and gained by playing which, unless you AFK matches, means by actively playing and takes much long then in PS2. its simple, if it cost a lot it better have a lot of worth and vehicles simply don't have that much worth to them. turrets more then anything is just insanely wrong cost to them. who ever did the price marketing on dust failed, hardcore.
ADAM-OF-EVE Svartur Bjorn Neo Terra Empire 301	Posted - 2013.09.20 11:04:00 - [39] - Quote Void Echo wrote: ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: [tanks for WP how about ISK, you still cant buy anything with WP, all they are good for are orbital strikes. but still your post is flawed in so many ways... and to top that you even admitted that you want tanks removed from the game (you may have not meant it (no you meant it)), and now your one of the biggest enemies we face as we are trying to achieve balance. after I make this post, this thread will probably be locked for trolling or il just stop posting on this nonsense and let you non-tankers decide the fate of tankers for the 92nd time. you buy an orbital with wp so why not a squad based tank if you have the squad members to use it. you state my suggestion is flawed in many ways but none of you have stated why, plenty of no's and zero reasons why. no i dont want tanks removed but if tank users are unwilling to compromise then they have no purpose in dust you are asking that tank users have the only say on balance to tanks when any buff to tanks is a nerf to all infantry to which there are more of us than you. as for trolling. i made a legitimate suggestion. it is you few unwilling to take any suggestions or work on them to come up with a better idea who are trolling.
Racro 01 Arifistan The Surrogates Of War 48	Posted - 2013.09.20 11:31:00 - [40] - Quote worst idea ever...... your idea = simply remove any form of tank driving form the game.

KEROSIINI-TERO Seraphim Initiative.. 744	Posted - 2013.09.20 13:28:00 - [41] - Quote Currently tanks are more or less just oversized clumsy dropsuits mounting somewhat more firepower. I speak for all tanker, AV and normal infantry point of views.
Spycrab Potato Hold-Your-Fire 481	Posted - 2013.09.20 13:41:00 - [42] - Quote Why would I let a blueberry control my modules? No thanks.
KEROSIINI-TERO Seraphim Initiative.. 744	Posted - 2013.09.20 13:42:00 - [43] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: 1)driver drives and operates front turret and tanking modules 2)main gunner operates main turret and turret modules. 3)top gunner is exposed out of the top turret like on an lav. double tank ehp due to complexity of new tank controls. no more solo tanking. add in complete lock out on tanks by the owner. when he/she calls it in it is locked completely until he/she unlocks it for crew or it is hacked by the enemy. this allows them to select the position in the tank they want. they can also unlock for squad only or free for all. add in climbing in and out of vehicles to commit people to the tank crew and not just instant hitch a ride or hide. vehicle views would have to be tweaked slightly. driver would get a front view screen only which incorporates his /hers forward turret. main gunner would have full allround view as the tank driver currently gets while not in turret view. this comes at the expense of having your head out the top of the turret. when in turret mode you are no longer exposed but have only the turret zoom view. the top gunner is always exposed but has an extended view of the area around the tank. his turret would have a forward shield for shield tanks and an arm shield for arm tanks. he is completely protected from the direction his turret is facing.. the full crew makes the tank very effective when they work together. if 1 is taken out then this effectiveness is reduced. when the tank is in full combat mode then the top gunner is the general allround eyes. if he is taken out then its doen to the main gunner who is now at a reduced visual effectiveness. this basicly allows players to disable tanks without actually needing to destroy them I actually like this. Promotes co-op. This way tanks could be made more 'tankier', powerful that is, as there would be a clear and distinct price for having that (commitment by multiple people). Now what I don't like about your suggestion, is the innuendo about HAV driver able to see only forward. That is... Terrible, as there is no rear view mirror.
Sgt Buttscratch SLAPHAPPY BANDITS 783	Posted - 2013.09.20 14:15:00 - [44] - Quote So let me get this straight... Build a tank for 800k-3kk, then drive it and operate a turret with only 180 degree's POV, then allow some absolute scrub to get all the fun using the main turret that costs anyhere from 100k-1kk...NO [font size=******* HUGE]NO[/font] Thats as bad as the idea tank pilots should only get to drive, all turrets have additional gunners. Absurd. Tanker skills in ISK's in, everyone else reaps benefit, tank owner has to restock when fail gunners get ya killed. How about this: Tank owner(the guy who skilled in purchased and built tank) drives the tank with full operation of top turret, small turrets are not only optional but are lockable to no-one/team/squad.
Avallo Kantor Paladin Survey Force Amarr Empire 177	Posted - 2013.09.20 14:19:00 - [45] - Quote The problem with multi-occupant vehicles when the basic function of a vehicle requires 2+ is that only a -single- person buys the item. Multi-occupant vehicles, where each occupant operates a critical system would only work in pre-made squads and corps. At which point, an organized group could still get more punch from dropping multiple single person tanks. Instead of changing a vehicle to this pattern, if you are set on having it, I'd suggest trying to include it as a separate vehicle sub-type, and giving them some specific role, like siege emplacements, or mobile fortresses.
ADAM-OF-EVE Svartur Bjorn Neo Terra Empire 301	Posted - 2013.09.20 15:04:00 - [46] - Quote Sgt Buttscratch wrote: So let me get this straight... Build a tank for 800k-3kk, then drive it and operate a turret with only 180 degree's POV, then allow some absolute scrub to get all the fun using the main turret that costs anyhere from 100k-1kk...NO [font size=******* HUGE]NO[/font] Thats as bad as the idea tank pilots should only get to drive, all turrets have additional gunners. Absurd. Tanker skills in ISK's in, everyone else reaps benefit, tank owner has to restock when fail gunners get ya killed. How about this: Tank owner(the guy who skilled in purchased and built tank) drives the tank with full operation of top turret, small turrets are not only optional but are lockable to no-one/team/squad. my idea is a complete revamp of tanks so nothing that we have currently has any relevance to it, isk price, who owns it and what seat they get, what skills they have spent all their sp on. it has no relevance at this moment in time. its a basic idea so the argument i bought it and skilled into it so its all mine is irrelevent. its not just yours in my idea. its a squad asset. the owner could be the top gunner if that was his/ her prefered position although its unlikely but its still a choice. as for who buys it. you, corp,squad,team, a friend, borrow or steal it. as for sp well you no longer need 20-30 mil sp to be any good. you only need sp for the seat you prefer to take.
Tebu Gan CrimeWave Syndicate 96	Posted - 2013.09.20 15:06:00 - [47] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: 1)driver drives and operates front turret and tanking modules 2)main gunner operates main turret and turret modules. 3)top gunner is exposed out of the top turret like on an lav. double tank ehp due to complexity of new tank controls. no more solo tanking. add in complete lock out on tanks by the owner. when he/she calls it in it is locked completely until he/she unlocks it for crew or it is hacked by the enemy. this allows them to select the position in the tank they want. they can also unlock for squad only or free for all. add in climbing in and out of vehicles to commit people to the tank crew and not just instant hitch a ride or hide. vehicle views would have to be tweaked slightly. driver would get a front view screen only which incorporates his /hers forward turret. main gunner would have full allround view as the tank driver currently gets while not in turret view. this comes at the expense of having your head out the top of the turret. when in turret mode you are no longer exposed but have only the turret zoom view. the top gunner is always exposed but has an extended view of the area around the tank. his turret would have a forward shield for shield tanks and an arm shield for arm tanks. he is completely protected from the direction his turret is facing.. the full crew makes the tank very effective when they work together. if 1 is taken out then this effectiveness is reduced. when the tank is in full combat mode then the top gunner is the general allround eyes. if he is taken out then its doen to the main gunner who is now at a reduced visual effectiveness. this basicly allows players to disable tanks without actually needing to destroy them NO I spend the money on the tank, I control it. Nuff said.
ADAM-OF-EVE Svartur Bjorn Neo Terra Empire 301	Posted - 2013.09.20 15:11:00 - [48] - Quote Tebu Gan wrote: ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: 1)driver drives and operates front turret and tanking modules 2)main gunner operates main turret and turret modules. 3)top gunner is exposed out of the top turret like on an lav. double tank ehp due to complexity of new tank controls. no more solo tanking. add in complete lock out on tanks by the owner. when he/she calls it in it is locked completely until he/she unlocks it for crew or it is hacked by the enemy. this allows them to select the position in the tank they want. they can also unlock for squad only or free for all. add in climbing in and out of vehicles to commit people to the tank crew and not just instant hitch a ride or hide. vehicle views would have to be tweaked slightly. driver would get a front view screen only which incorporates his /hers forward turret. main gunner would have full allround view as the tank driver currently gets while not in turret view. this comes at the expense of having your head out the top of the turret. when in turret mode you are no longer exposed but have only the turret zoom view. the top gunner is always exposed but has an extended view of the area around the tank. his turret would have a forward shield for shield tanks and an arm shield for arm tanks. he is completely protected from the direction his turret is facing.. the full crew makes the tank very effective when they work together. if 1 is taken out then this effectiveness is reduced. when the tank is in full combat mode then the top gunner is the general allround eyes. if he is taken out then its doen to the main gunner who is now at a reduced visual effectiveness. this basicly allows players to disable tanks without actually needing to destroy them NO I spend the money on the tank, I control it. Nuff said. why should you spend the money on the tank, or the sp investment if its designed for squad use. in its current state its design makes it a solo weapon of mass destruction with a high cost in both skill and isk to limit its use. my suggestion is for it not to be solo. so not your responsibility to fund or skill into unless you want too. 3 crew is a cost split 3 ways both in isk required to kit out and also in sp required to operate.
Sgt Kirk SyNergy Gaming EoN. 1875	Posted - 2013.09.20 15:12:00 - [49] - Quote Change them to Go-Karts
The Attorney General ZionTCD 1004	Posted - 2013.09.20 15:21:00 - [50] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: my idea is a complete revamp of tanks so nothing that we have currently has any relevance to it, isk price, who owns it and what seat they get, what skills they have spent all their sp on. it has no relevance at this moment in time. its a basic idea so the argument i bought it and skilled into it so its all mine is irrelevent. its not just yours in my idea. its a squad asset. the owner could be the top gunner if that was his/ her prefered position although its unlikely but its still a choice. as for who buys it. you, corp,squad,team, a friend, borrow or steal it. as for sp well you no longer need 20-30 mil sp to be any good. you only need sp for the seat you prefer to take. Someone needs to skill into the chassis. Someone needs to skill into the main turret. If the person who skills into the chassis is the driver, he would never skill into turrets that he won't be using. If the person who skills into the chassis also has to skill into the turret, he is investing SP for someone else to use something, which is ridiculous. And yes, whomever is calling it in has to skill into the whole vehicle, which he can't use, because that is how the fitting system works. Your idea is bad, but instead of giving it up you are going to try and keep acting like it is a good idea. Also, you don't need 20 million SP to be good in tanks. You cna make very servicable fits for less than 6, can roll PC if you choose your skills wisely at 7, and be fit maxxed for one type of tank at around 8.5-9.5. So I'll support this type of BS as long as: Heavies need a Logi to spawn in their HMG for them. Only Logis can equip nanohives. All infantry must get their grenades from a nanaohive, as they spawn with zero. All infantry spawn with half of their current ammo, to promote teamwork. All infantry are limited by the meta level of what their squad leader spawns in. He goes MLT, you do to. Because if you want to promote teamwork, lets do it with infantry as well. Because as long as an Assault troop with a Duvolle and AV nades is an omni threat, then we can't be trying to force teamwork on other parts of the game. All of this is completely irrelevant because tanking is already highly team oriented if you want to survive. You can't ignore the infantry with you, because if they pull back and you decide to hang out and try and get more kills, you are getting blown up pretty fast.

loumanchew Ametat Security Amarr Empire 142	Posted - 2013.09.20 15:25:00 - [51] - Quote Just reduce drastically the effective range of tanks and AV as well as the damage output/input so that we can have big fat encounters while removing the redlining pussying which reigns supreme in this game. Finally the game might actually look like the promo and be less like '' I wonder how long it will take this time before I get 2 shotted by a turret or redlining tank which risks nothing to rip me off of my million $ flying goose!?''
ADAM-OF-EVE Svartur Bjorn Neo Terra Empire 301	Posted - 2013.09.20 15:35:00 - [52] - Quote The Attorney General wrote: ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: my idea is a complete revamp of tanks so nothing that we have currently has any relevance to it, isk price, who owns it and what seat they get, what skills they have spent all their sp on. it has no relevance at this moment in time. its a basic idea so the argument i bought it and skilled into it so its all mine is irrelevent. its not just yours in my idea. its a squad asset. the owner could be the top gunner if that was his/ her prefered position although its unlikely but its still a choice. as for who buys it. you, corp,squad,team, a friend, borrow or steal it. as for sp well you no longer need 20-30 mil sp to be any good. you only need sp for the seat you prefer to take. Someone needs to skill into the chassis. Someone needs to skill into the main turret. If the person who skills into the chassis is the driver, he would never skill into turrets that he won't be using. If the person who skills into the chassis also has to skill into the turret, he is investing SP for someone else to use something, which is ridiculous. And yes, whomever is calling it in has to skill into the whole vehicle, which he can't use, because that is how the fitting system works. Your idea is bad, but instead of giving it up you are going to try and keep acting like it is a good idea. Also, you don't need 20 million SP to be good in tanks. You cna make very servicable fits for less than 6, can roll PC if you choose your skills wisely at 7, and be fit maxxed for one type of tank at around 8.5-9.5. So I'll support this type of BS as long as: Heavies need a Logi to spawn in their HMG for them. Only Logis can equip nanohives. All infantry must get their grenades from a nanaohive, as they spawn with zero. All infantry spawn with half of their current ammo, to promote teamwork. All infantry are limited by the meta level of what their squad leader spawns in. He goes MLT, you do to. Because if you want to promote teamwork, lets do it with infantry as well. Because as long as an Assault troop with a Duvolle and AV nades is an omni threat, then we can't be trying to force teamwork on other parts of the game. All of this is completely irrelevant because tanking is already highly team oriented if you want to survive. You can't ignore the infantry with you, because if they pull back and you decide to hang out and try and get more kills, you are getting blown up pretty fast. did i say someone had to skill into the chassis, did i say someone had to skill into the turrets, i did say they are only responsible for their own space in the tank. specialise or jack of all trades it thats upto the individual crew member. calling in the vehicle. why would anyone have to be skilled into it. on the current system they would have too but this is not in the current system its an idea and things could be changed so it could be implemented. like i said use it as a squad asset. orbitals are squad assets so they could easy be called in via a system like that.
Flix Keptick Red Star. EoN. 75	Posted - 2013.09.20 15:53:00 - [53] - Quote No... just no...
KEROSIINI-TERO Seraphim Initiative.. 745	Posted - 2013.09.20 16:48:00 - [54] - Quote Sgt Buttscratch wrote: So let me get this straight... Build a tank for 800k-3kk, then drive it and operate a turret with only 180 degree's POV, then allow some absolute scrub to get all the fun using the main turret that costs anyhere from 100k-1kk...NO [font size=******* HUGE]NO[/font] Thats as bad as the idea tank pilots should only get to drive, all turrets have additional gunners. Absurd. Tanker skills in ISK's in, everyone else reaps benefit, tank owner has to restock when fail gunners get ya killed. How about this: Tank owner(the guy who skilled in purchased and built tank) drives the tank with full operation of top turret, small turrets are not only optional but are lockable to no-one/team/squad. Perhaps don't bring tank in pubs then. Look something else for solo pwn suit.
KEROSIINI-TERO Seraphim Initiative.. 745	Posted - 2013.09.20 16:51:00 - [55] - Quote Well perhaps solo operated tanks could be smaller ones, like scout tanks? And multi operated be the toughest heavy tanks?
ADAM-OF-EVE Svartur Bjorn Neo Terra Empire 302	Posted - 2013.09.20 17:07:00 - [56] - Quote KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: Well perhaps solo operated tanks could be smaller ones, like scout tanks? And multi operated be the toughest heavy tanks? reconnaissance tanks for solo purposes fast with medium tanking and dps to match their size and roll. MBT's 3 man crew with high dps,high ehp, slow that might work. people could do their public solo but when needed they could crew up and roll an mbt
Void Echo Morsus Mihi Aperuitque Imperium 1458	Posted - 2013.09.20 17:32:00 - [57] - Quote funny how 99% of your support is people who never skilled into tanks including you... shows how much your idea is loved by the people its intended for. (I know I said I wouldn't talk here anymore, but I had to bring that up)
Foundation Seldon Gespenster Kompanie Villore Accords 108	Posted - 2013.09.20 17:57:00 - [58] - Quote You're not going to find much support among other tankers to incorporate the ideas that you've listed but, for the sake of discussion, I'll try to help you understand why your ideas are awful and how you can make them more palatable to tankers. - You've made Tanks simultaneously more reliant on Teamwork while making that Teamwork laughably easy to cripple with vulnerable gunners. You're not making the tank any more powerful by creating a situation where any infantry in a 200 meter radius can tag your gunners because their heads are poking out of the tank. Vulnerable gunners work on Dropships and LAVs because both of these vehicles are FAST and can react to enemy fire and escape from it effectively. Tanks don't have this advantage, there's a level of commitment that's involved in driving to any place where there's a decent amount of infantry gathered. Any tank that would walk up into an area where the enemy is active would immediately have their gunners taken out and the tank would be crippled after its first engagement. - The camera idea is horrible. This relates back to the fact that your gunners are vulnerable but beyond that tanks are cumbersome, have very slow acceleration, and often get caught on a map's various terrain. Removing the driver's ability to actually effectively drive without the people in your tank relaying information about your position just makes for a very convoluted setup and it's compounded by the fact that any random infantry can go up and shoot the one guy who has the 360 degree view of where you're going in the face at any time. This model of the tank camera you're presenting would require a huge amount of communication and would all but eliminate the notion of tank use outside of squad play where everyone has a mic. Bad. Very bad. So if you want anyone here to support anything that you're saying at all you'll probably need to make these changes : Remove notion of vulnerable gunners Let the driver be able to drive, ie. Don't change the camera for the driver. Significantly reduce SP investment needed for Tank play as a result of requiring teamwork to get the most out of it.
ABadMutha13 Nihil-Obstat Mercs General Tso's Alliance 19	Posted - 2013.09.20 17:59:00 - [59] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: 1)driver drives and operates front turret and tanking modules 2)main gunner operates main turret and turret modules. 3)top gunner is exposed out of the top turret like on an lav. double tank ehp due to complexity of new tank controls. no more solo tanking. add in complete lock out on tanks by the owner. when he/she calls it in it is locked completely until he/she unlocks it for crew or it is hacked by the enemy. this allows them to select the position in the tank they want. they can also unlock for squad only or free for all. add in climbing in and out of vehicles to commit people to the tank crew and not just instant hitch a ride or hide. vehicle views would have to be tweaked slightly. driver would get a front view screen only which incorporates his /hers forward turret. main gunner would have full allround view as the tank driver currently gets while not in turret view. this comes at the expense of having your head out the top of the turret. when in turret mode you are no longer exposed but have only the turret zoom view. the top gunner is always exposed but has an extended view of the area around the tank. his turret would have a forward shield for shield tanks and an arm shield for arm tanks. he is completely protected from the direction his turret is facing.. the full crew makes the tank very effective when they work together. if 1 is taken out then this effectiveness is reduced. when the tank is in full combat mode then the top gunner is the general allround eyes. if he is taken out then its doen to the main gunner who is now at a reduced visual effectiveness. this basicly allows players to disable tanks without actually needing to destroy them TL;DR I just scanned to see if you said: "Make tanks Unicorns"
The Attorney General ZionTCD 1011	Posted - 2013.09.20 20:24:00 - [60] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: did i say someone had to skill into the chassis, did i say someone had to skill into the turrets, i did say they are only responsible for their own space in the tank. specialise or jack of all trades it thats upto the individual crew member. calling in the vehicle. why would anyone have to be skilled into it. on the current system they would have too but this is not in the current system its an idea and things could be changed so it could be implemented. like i said use it as a squad asset. orbitals are squad assets so they could easy be called in via a system like that. also who is to say ccp couldn't come up with an option to fit your own part of the tank in vehicle fittings so just a chassis or just a turret with their own pq/cpu etc. the chassis pilot could call in the vehicle and it then is asked by the system which gunner he is using. he selects the main gunner and the main gunner gets a message to accept. once accepted the vehicle comes in with the completed vehicle with one persons chassis and the others turret So you want CCP to change the entire skill system so that you don't get hurt by tanks? OK, whatever. You obviously have not thought this through, and are just clutching at straws. Oddly enough, you never respond to my counter proposals for infantry restrictions, most likely because you don't think infantry should have any restrictions, which makes your entire argument moot.

The Attorney General ZionTCD 1025	Posted - 2013.09.20 20:26:00 - [61] - Quote Also, having tanks be called in an as a squad asset is ridiculous. How would you adjust the fitting? Or would you only get to choose from a couple of preset configurations? Since when is that the ethos of this game? When your idea runs counter to some of the core concepts of the game, maybe you should just stop trying.
sly Bandit OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 37	Posted - 2013.09.20 23:58:00 - [62] - Quote No... No to everything about this idea. If they changed tanks to be like this I personally would quit playing...
Scheneighnay McBob Bojo's School of the Trades 3205	Posted - 2013.09.21 00:13:00 - [63] - Quote Support. Unfortunately, I knew how the community would react to this, since I suggested it several times in the past. No matter how much sense it makes, they think that a high price tag justifies being able to go solo. It doesn't. Price = potential effectiveness; not base effectiveness.
Henchmen21 Planet Express LLC 263	Posted - 2013.09.21 00:22:00 - [64] - Quote No just no. I learned long ago in EVE don't trust nobody. Not even that noob asking for help, nobody. There is no way you would ever convince me to give over half the function of my tank to anybody. If they ran with this idea I wouldn't ask for a respect I would just walk away. I'd walk away because I would have lost what little hope I have in this development team to make good decisions.
Void Echo Morsus Mihi Aperuitque Imperium 1462	Posted - 2013.09.21 00:33:00 - [65] - Quote Scheneighnay McBob wrote: Support. Unfortunately, I knew how the community would react to this, since I suggested it several times in the past. No matter how much sense it makes, they think that a high price tag justifies being able to go solo. It doesn't. Price = potential effectiveness; not base effectiveness. actually its because of the personal investment we put into our vehicles that makes us not want to trust random retards with our own stuff. im sorry that your idea of how infantry behaves doesn't exist
Spkr4theDead International-Fleet 780	Posted - 2013.09.21 01:10:00 - [66] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: 1)driver drives and operates front turret and tanking modules 2)main gunner operates main turret and turret modules. 3)top gunner is exposed out of the top turret like on an lav. double tank ehp due to complexity of new tank controls. no more solo tanking. add in complete lock out on tanks by the owner. when he/she calls it in it is locked completely until he/she unlocks it for crew or it is hacked by the enemy. this allows them to select the position in the tank they want. they can also unlock for squad only or free for all. add in climbing in and out of vehicles to commit people to the tank crew and not just instant hitch a ride or hide. vehicle views would have to be tweaked slightly. driver would get a front view screen only which incorporates his /hers forward turret. main gunner would have full allround view as the tank driver currently gets while not in turret view. this comes at the expense of having your head out the top of the turret. when in turret mode you are no longer exposed but have only the turret zoom view. the top gunner is always exposed but has an extended view of the area around the tank. his turret would have a forward shield for shield tanks and an arm shield for arm tanks. he is completely protected from the direction his turret is facing.. the full crew makes the tank very effective when they work together. if 1 is taken out then this effectiveness is reduced. when the tank is in full combat mode then the top gunner is the general allround eyes. if he is taken out then its doen to the main gunner who is now at a reduced visual effectiveness. this basicly allows players to disable tanks without actually needing to destroy them No, because you're infantry, don't tank, and don't have a clue what it's like to drive a tank. If you want that, then all your equipment gets carried in a pack and someone else has to take it out for it to be used.
Delta 749 Kestrel Reconnaissance 1925	Posted - 2013.09.21 01:17:00 - [67] - Quote Funny how all the tankers say they work as part of their team but any suggestions making their vehicle most effective with team work get shot down isnt it Anyway I bet you a dollar they would lock everyone out and just jump around every seat if your suggestions were ever implemented
Godin Thekiller Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 774	Posted - 2013.09.21 01:19:00 - [68] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: If you want that, then all your equipment gets carried in a pack and someone else has to take it out for it to be used. This is kinda what pilots are getting at. Plus, we are in pods that allow us to control the turret and drive at the same time, as it's a modified version of the pods in Capsuleer ships (no ejection sadly).
Godin Thekiller Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 774	Posted - 2013.09.21 01:22:00 - [69] - Quote Delta 749 wrote: Funny how all the tankers say they work as part of their team but any suggestions making their vehicle most effective with team work get shot down isnt it Anyway I bet you a dollar they would lock everyone out and just jump around every seat if your suggestions were ever implemented 1: The only way for us to survive (blasters mostly) is to have the scrubs back us up, and in return, we give you little buggers a lot of covering fire. Teamwork. 2: We shoot it down because half of the time, you ******* would make us useless. 3: Most pilots who main tanking would just quit if this were to happen, and everyone else would just not use them. It's bad enough that a less experienced person would use the gun, but that's another player taken off the board to make a vehicle actually useful.
Spkr4theDead International-Fleet 781	Posted - 2013.09.21 01:29:00 - [70] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: so much hostility. even mention "change" and "tank" in the same sentence and tank drivers lose it lol. there is a reason why there will always be issues with tanks and its nothing to do with the tanks themselves Every issue we have is because of infantry like you trying to say how tanks should work, and that we should adapt to the changes you decide on, without giving pilots any real say in the matter.

True Adamance PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 2166	Posted - 2013.09.21 01:31:00 - [71] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: so much hostility. even mention "change" and "tank" in the same sentence and tank drivers lose it lol. there is a reason why there will always be issues with tanks and its nothing to do with the tanks themselves Every issue we have is because of infantry like you trying to say how tanks should work, and that we should adapt to the changes you decide on, without giving pilots any real say in the matter. Additionally 2/3 of the Vehiclularly minded community is crying out that they are suffering under the standard infantry players demands. AKA Dropship and HAV Pilots.
Delta 749 Kestrel Reconnaissance 1925	Posted - 2013.09.21 01:40:00 - [72] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: Delta 749 wrote: Funny how all the tankers say they work as part of their team but any suggestions making their vehicle most effective with team work get shot down isnt it Anyway I bet you a dollar they would lock everyone out and just jump around every seat if your suggestions were ever implemented 1: The only way for us to survive (blasters mostly) is to have the scrubs back us up, and in return, we give you little buggers a lot of covering fire. Teamwork. 2: We shoot it down because half of the time, you ******* would make us useless. 3: Most pilots who main tanking would just quit if this were to happen, and everyone else would just not use them. It's bad enough that a less experienced person would use the gun, but that's another player taken off the board to make a vehicle actually useful. 1. Honestly I would call that team work if your attitude is the way it is now, generally theres at least a shred of mutual respect between teammates 2. How do you know that? Are you using just any random joe schmoe to prove your point or are you using experience with squaddies you know as your example 3. To me giving up one pair of boots on the ground so a tank can have both greater mobility and more accurate firepower on the move seems like a fair trade off
Spkr4theDead International-Fleet 781	Posted - 2013.09.21 03:06:00 - [73] - Quote Delta 749 wrote: Godin Thekiller wrote: Delta 749 wrote: Funny how all the tankers say they work as part of their team but any suggestions making their vehicle most effective with team work get shot down isnt it Anyway I bet you a dollar they would lock everyone out and just jump around every seat if your suggestions were ever implemented 1: The only way for us to survive (blasters mostly) is to have the scrubs back us up, and in return, we give you little buggers a lot of covering fire. Teamwork. 2: We shoot it down because half of the time, you ******* would make us useless. 3: Most pilots who main tanking would just quit if this were to happen, and everyone else would just not use them. It's bad enough that a less experienced person would use the gun, but that's another player taken off the board to make a vehicle actually useful. 1. Honestly I would call that team work if your attitude is the way it is now, generally theres at least a shred of mutual respect between teammates 2. How do you know that? Are you using just any random joe schmoe to prove your point or are you using experience with squaddies you know as your example 3. To me giving up one pair of boots on the ground so a tank can have both greater mobility and more accurate firepower on the move seems like a fair trade off Again, Delta, I'll offer you a planetary conquest-grade tank in blaster, railgun or missile configuration for you to show me how you drive a tank. Yes they're expensive, but I have over 200mil ISK so price isn't a problem for me. Why won't you accept my offer?
Lurchasaurus SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 1973	Posted - 2013.09.21 06:02:00 - [74] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: Tebu Gan wrote: ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: 1)driver drives and operates front turret and tanking modules 2)main gunner operates main turret and turret modules. 3)top gunner is exposed out of the top turret like on an lav. double tank ehp due to complexity of new tank controls. no more solo tanking. add in complete lock out on tanks by the owner. when he/she calls it in it is locked completely until he/she unlocks it for crew or it is hacked by the enemy. this allows them to select the position in the tank they want. they can also unlock for squad only or free for all. add in climbing in and out of vehicles to commit people to the tank crew and not just instant hitch a ride or hide. vehicle views would have to be tweaked slightly. driver would get a front view screen only which incorporates his /hers forward turret. main gunner would have full allround view as the tank driver currently gets while not in turret view. this comes at the expense of having your head out the top of the turret. when in turret mode you are no longer exposed but have only the turret zoom view. the top gunner is always exposed but has an extended view of the area around the tank. his turret would have a forward shield for shield tanks and an arm shield for arm tanks. he is completely protected from the direction his turret is facing.. the full crew makes the tank very effective when they work together. if 1 is taken out then this effectiveness is reduced. when the tank is in full combat mode then the top gunner is the general allround eyes. if he is taken out then its doen to the main gunner who is now at a reduced visual effectiveness. this basicly allows players to disable tanks without actually needing to destroy them NO I spend the money on the tank, I control it. Nuff said. why should you spend the money on the tank, or the sp investment if its designed for squad use. in its current state its design makes it a solo weapon of mass destruction with a high cost in both skill and isk to limit its use. my suggestion is for it not to be solo. so not your responsibility to fund or skill into unless you want too. 3 crew is a cost split 3 ways both in isk required to kit out and also in sp required to operate. i specced into tanks so I can use em. not anyone else. I dont care about you. We can spec into tanks because this is New Eden, and that is how it works. This is not battlefield. If you must have that game mechanic, BF just so happens to be right up your alley. Im tired of not being able to play the way i want because YOU dont like it. get off my di.ck
Lurchasaurus SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 1973	Posted - 2013.09.21 06:05:00 - [75] - Quote Delta 749 wrote: Funny how all the tankers say they work as part of their team but any suggestions making their vehicle most effective with team work get shot down isnt it Anyway I bet you a dollar they would lock everyone out and just jump around every seat if your suggestions were ever implemented Hm.......yes........ i have noticed assault and scout suits have equipment slots......yeah, that isnt good for teamwork. something needs to be done, assault and scout suits need to have equipment slots removed, since there is now no point in a logi
Godin Thekiller Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 779	Posted - 2013.09.21 06:13:00 - [76] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: Sgt Buttscratch wrote: So let me get this straight... Build a tank for 800k-3kk, then drive it and operate a turret with only 180 degree's POV, then allow some absolute scrub to get all the fun using the main turret that costs anyhere from 100k-1kk...NO [font size=******* HUGE]NO[/font] Thats as bad as the idea tank pilots should only get to drive, all turrets have additional gunners. Absurd. Tanker skills in ISK's in, everyone else reaps benefit, tank owner has to restock when fail gunners get ya killed. How about this: Tank owner(the guy who skilled in purchased and built tank) drives the tank with full operation of top turret, small turrets are not only optional but are lockable to no-one/team/squad. my idea is a complete revamp of tanks so nothing that we have currently has any relevance to it, isk price, who owns it and what seat they get, what skills they have spent all their sp on. it has no relevance at this moment in time. its a basic idea so the argument i bought it and skilled into it so its all mine is irrelevent. its not just yours in my idea. its a squad asset. the owner could be the top gunner if that was his/ her prefered position although its unlikely but its still a choice. as for who buys it. you, corp,squad,team, a friend, borrow or steal it. as for sp well you no longer need 20-30 mil sp to be any good. you only need sp for the seat you prefer to take. pilot calls in the vehicles, so point is void. It's not going to happen.
Godin Thekiller Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 779	Posted - 2013.09.21 06:16:00 - [77] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: The Attorney General wrote: ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: my idea is a complete revamp of tanks so nothing that we have currently has any relevance to it, isk price, who owns it and what seat they get, what skills they have spent all their sp on. it has no relevance at this moment in time. its a basic idea so the argument i bought it and skilled into it so its all mine is irrelevent. its not just yours in my idea. its a squad asset. the owner could be the top gunner if that was his/ her prefered position although its unlikely but its still a choice. as for who buys it. you, corp,squad,team, a friend, borrow or steal it. as for sp well you no longer need 20-30 mil sp to be any good. you only need sp for the seat you prefer to take. Someone needs to skill into the chassis. Someone needs to skill into the main turret. If the person who skills into the chassis is the driver, he would never skill into turrets that he won't be using. If the person who skills into the chassis also has to skill into the turret, he is investing SP for someone else to use something, which is ridiculous. And yes, whomever is calling it in has to skill into the whole vehicle, which he can't use, because that is how the fitting system works. Your idea is bad, but instead of giving it up you are going to try and keep acting like it is a good idea. Also, you don't need 20 million SP to be good in tanks. You cna make very servicable fits for less than 6, can roll PC if you choose your skills wisely at 7, and be fit maxxed for one type of tank at around 8.5-9.5. So I'll support this type of BS as long as: Heavies need a Logi to spawn in their HMG for them. Only Logis can equip nanohives. All infantry must get their grenades from a nanaohive, as they spawn with zero. All infantry spawn with half of their current ammo, to promote teamwork. All infantry are limited by the meta level of what their squad leader spawns in. He goes MLT, you do to. Because if you want to promote teamwork, lets do it with infantry as well. Because as long as an Assault troop with a Duvolle and AV nades is an omni threat, then we can't be trying to force teamwork on other parts of the game. All of this is completely irrelevant because tanking is already highly team oriented if you want to survive. You can't ignore the infantry with you, because if they pull back and you decide to hang out and try and get more kills, you are getting blown up pretty fast. did i say someone had to skill into the chassis, did i say someone had to skill into the turrets, i did say they are only responsible for their own space in the tank. specialise or jack of all trades it thats upto the individual crew member. calling in the vehicle. why would anyone have to be skilled into it. on the current system they would have too but this is not in the current system its an idea and things could be changed so it could be implemented. like i said use it as a squad asset. orbitals are squad assets so they could easy be called in via a system like that. also who is to say ccp couldn't come up with an option to fit your own part of the tank in vehicle fittings so just a chassis or just a turret with their own pq/cpu etc. the chassis pilot could call in the vehicle and it then is asked by the system which gunner he is using. he selects the main gunner and the main gunner gets a message to accept. once accepted the vehicle comes in with the completed vehicle with one persons chassis and the others turret So what you're now saying is that you don't have to skill into anything anymore. LOL.
Godin Thekiller Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 780	Posted - 2013.09.21 06:19:00 - [78] - Quote KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: Sgt Buttscratch wrote: So let me get this straight... Build a tank for 800k-3kk, then drive it and operate a turret with only 180 degree's POV, then allow some absolute scrub to get all the fun using the main turret that costs anyhere from 100k-1kk...NO [font size=******* HUGE]NO[/font] Thats as bad as the idea tank pilots should only get to drive, all turrets have additional gunners. Absurd. Tanker skills in ISK's in, everyone else reaps benefit, tank owner has to restock when fail gunners get ya killed. How about this: Tank owner(the guy who skilled in purchased and built tank) drives the tank with full operation of top turret, small turrets are not only optional but are lockable to no-one/team/squad. Perhaps don't bring tank in pubs then. Look something else for solo pwn suit. So, let me get this straight: 1: public matches are for only infantry 2: pilots are only allowed to use their vehicles when it's an important match, or when the other side has a bunch of PROTO AV ready 3: Even though pilots skilled into vehicles most of the way, they should use gimped fits in pubs. Yea, no.
Lurchasaurus SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 1973	Posted - 2013.09.21 06:20:00 - [79] - Quote People are so eager to place restrictions on other players when they are inconvenienced and then choose to ignore the double standards they throw out. It is pathetic. For emphasis...... It is pathetic. You know, swarms kind of give me a rough time....they have an awfully good fire rate and range.....and they lock.....and they do thousands of damage...... you know, that doesnt make for very good teamwork..... swarmers should need a second infatnry guy to load the next rockets into the launcher.....after all.......teamwork....
Spkr4theDead International-Fleet 781	Posted - 2013.09.21 06:23:00 - [80] - Quote Mobius Wyvern wrote: ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: 1)driver drives and operates front turret and tanking modules 2)main gunner operates main turret and turret modules. 3)top gunner is exposed out of the top turret like on an lav. double tank ehp due to complexity of new tank controls. no more solo tanking. add in complete lock out on tanks by the owner. when he/she calls it in it is locked completely until he/she unlocks it for crew or it is hacked by the enemy. this allows them to select the position in the tank they want. they can also unlock for squad only or free for all. add in climbing in and out of vehicles to commit people to the tank crew and not just instant hitch a ride or hide. vehicle views would have to be tweaked slightly. driver would get a front view screen only which incorporates his /hers forward turret. main gunner would have full allround view as the tank driver currently gets while not in turret view. this comes at the expense of having your head out the top of the turret. when in turret mode you are no longer exposed but have only the turret zoom view. the top gunner is always exposed but has an extended view of the area around the tank. his turret would have a forward shield for shield tanks and an arm shield for arm tanks. he is completely protected from the direction his turret is facing.. the full crew makes the tank very effective when they work together. if 1 is taken out then this effectiveness is reduced. when the tank is in full combat mode then the top gunner is the general allround eyes. if he is taken out then its doen to the main gunner who is now at a reduced visual effectiveness. this basicly allows players to disable tanks without actually needing to destroy them You are going to get ** on. I tried to propose this myself many times, and got ** on. You're not going to get any traction with this. I mean, most of the people here want to be able to take the Small Turrets off because it OFFENDS them that there might be someone else using their vehicle while they are. No, we don't want people with the IQ of a banana to screw us over and get us to show up on the map because they just have to fire our small turrets.

Spkr4theDead International-Fleet 781	Posted - 2013.09.21 06:25:00 - [81] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: problem is tanks should have always been squad assets from the get go. biggest mistake CCP made was letting any tom,**** and harry with delusions of grandeur buy and use them. this only made everyone who used them feel they should be able to kill everything solo because they spent all the sp and isk on them. until tankers get it out of their heads that a tank is for soloing then nothing ccp does is going to fix tanks and your only hurting your own profession by not accepting suggestions even offering constructive criticism on the bad suggestions. it all adds to the bigger picture. simply asking for hp buffs or av nerfs is not going to fix nothing because the core of the tank role is so messed up to start with You don't tank, so who the hell are you to tell us how tanks are supposed to work?
Godin Thekiller Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 780	Posted - 2013.09.21 06:28:00 - [82] - Quote Delta 749 wrote: Godin Thekiller wrote: Delta 749 wrote: Funny how all the tankers say they work as part of their team but any suggestions making their vehicle most effective with team work get shot down isnt it Anyway I bet you a dollar they would lock everyone out and just jump around every seat if your suggestions were ever implemented 1: The only way for us to survive (blasters mostly) is to have the scrubs back us up, and in return, we give you little buggers a lot of covering fire. Teamwork. 2: We shoot it down because half of the time, you ***** would make us useless. 3: Most pilots who main tanking would just quit if this were to happen, and everyone else would just not use them. It's bad enough that a less experienced person would use the gun, but that's another player taken off the board to make a vehicle actually useful. 1. Honestly I would call that team work if your attitude is the way it is now, generally theres at least a shred of mutual respect between teammates 2. How do you know that? Are you using just any random joe schmoe to prove your point or are you using experience with squaddies you know as your example 3. To me giving up one pair of boots on the ground so a tank can have both greater mobility and more accurate firepower on the move seems like a fair trade off 1: I've been doing that, so yea, go teamwork I guess. 2: Because most random ***** (99%) just shoot at the MCC or some other random BS, then hop out and run away when I take like 10% damage. You honestly think that they would somehow change? The only time I get good people is when A: It's another pilot B: It's a good squad/corp/alliance mate who I know that they know how to use the turrets properly, and are usually pilots Plus, if they don't hop out, when the turrets would be ineffective, they just sit there. Lastly, when I need to recall, they just don't get out.
Spkr4theDead International-Fleet 781	Posted - 2013.09.21 06:28:00 - [83] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: sixteensixty4 wrote: ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: problem is tanks should have always been squad assets from the get go. biggest mistake CCP made was letting any tom,** and harry with delusions of grandeur buy and use them. this only made everyone who used them feel they should be able to kill everything solo because they spent all the sp and isk on them. until tankers get it out of their heads that a tank is for soloing then nothing ccp does is going to fix tanks and your only hurting your own profession by not accepting suggestions even offering constructive criticism on the bad suggestions. it all adds to the bigger picture. simply asking for hp buffs or av nerfs is not going to fix nothing because the core of the tank role is so messed up to start with If a fecking titan in eve uses all his own weapons and modules, then im pretty fecking sure my piddily little tank can also The support for a tank, is either, good gunners in the aux turrets, or YOU the ***** infantry, preferably both and regarding offering constructive criticism on your idea, maybe you would have got some, if you had just thought about it, come on, your idea is fecking stupid for reasons already mentioned you basicly just sh!t on anyone that doesnt role in a corp, or as i said already, maybe you wont have friends online when you are and as my post above this, you cant trust random blues to main the turrets when 90% of them just want troll you you are the perfect example of why tanks will never be fixed. me,me,me,me,me. and hostility towards any change that is not a buff a pod pilot is nothing like a dust merc. a pod pilot is wired directly into his craft. a merc just drives it with his arms and legs. absolutely no comparison there. also you have it wrong. the tank is there to support the troops on the ground who actually capture stuff to win the fight. not the other way round. another delusion of the tank driver you gave no reasons until now why it was bad, oh yes you did, what was it, i cant solo tank with your idea. more me,me,me as for people not being online to man your vehicle. well congratulations you found a flaw and gave constructive criticism on it. gold star to this guy. we are making progress. How do you know the pilot isn't directly wired into the tank? There's no view of the cockpit so how can you speak with any certainty?
Spkr4theDead International-Fleet 781	Posted - 2013.09.21 06:34:00 - [84] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: Void Echo wrote: ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: [tanks for WP how about ISK, you still cant buy anything with WP, all they are good for are orbital strikes. but still your post is flawed in so many ways... and to top that you even admitted that you want tanks removed from the game (you may have not meant it (no you meant it)), and now your one of the biggest enemies we face as we are trying to achieve balance. after I make this post, this thread will probably be locked for trolling or il just stop posting on this nonsense and let you non-tankers decide the fate of tankers for the 92nd time. you buy an orbital with wp so why not a squad based tank if you have the squad members to use it. you state my suggestion is flawed in many ways but none of you have stated why, plenty of no's and zero reasons why. no i dont want tanks removed but if tank users are unwilling to compromise then they have no purpose in dust you are asking that tank users have the only say on balance to tanks when any buff to tanks is a nerf to all infantry to which there are more of us than you. as for trolling. i made a legitimate suggestion. it is you few unwilling to take any suggestions or work on them to come up with a better idea who are trolling. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=99075&find=unread So because there's more infantry, CCP should listen to you over us?
Godin Thekiller Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 780	Posted - 2013.09.21 06:36:00 - [85] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: sixteensixty4 wrote: ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: problem is tanks should have always been squad assets from the get go. biggest mistake CCP made was letting any tom,** and harry with delusions of grandeur buy and use them. this only made everyone who used them feel they should be able to kill everything solo because they spent all the sp and isk on them. until tankers get it out of their heads that a tank is for soloing then nothing ccp does is going to fix tanks and your only hurting your own profession by not accepting suggestions even offering constructive criticism on the bad suggestions. it all adds to the bigger picture. simply asking for hp buffs or av nerfs is not going to fix nothing because the core of the tank role is so messed up to start with If a fecking titan in eve uses all his own weapons and modules, then im pretty fecking sure my piddily little tank can also The support for a tank, is either, good gunners in the aux turrets, or YOU the ***** infantry, preferably both and regarding offering constructive criticism on your idea, maybe you would have got some, if you had just thought about it, come on, your idea is fecking stupid for reasons already mentioned you basicly just sh!t on anyone that doesnt role in a corp, or as i said already, maybe you wont have friends online when you are and as my post above this, you cant trust random blues to main the turrets when 90% of them just want troll you you are the perfect example of why tanks will never be fixed. me,me,me,me,me. and hostility towards any change that is not a buff a pod pilot is nothing like a dust merc. a pod pilot is wired directly into his craft. a merc just drives it with his arms and legs. absolutely no comparison there. also you have it wrong. the tank is there to support the troops on the ground who actually capture stuff to win the fight. not the other way round. another delusion of the tank driver you gave no reasons until now why it was bad, oh yes you did, what was it, i cant solo tank with your idea. more me,me,me as for people not being online to man your vehicle. well congratulations you found a flaw and gave constructive criticism on it. gold star to this guy. we are making progress. How do you know the pilot isn't directly wired into the tank? There's no view of the cockpit so how can you speak with any certainty? Actually, we do sit in pods. They're not as strong as the ones in cap' ships (reason why we don't control all the turrets), but it's good enough to take the driver's seat, the modules, and one turret.
Spkr4theDead International-Fleet 781	Posted - 2013.09.21 06:36:00 - [86] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: Sgt Buttscratch wrote: So let me get this straight... Build a tank for 800k-3kk, then drive it and operate a turret with only 180 degree's POV, then allow some absolute scrub to get all the fun using the main turret that costs anyhere from 100k-1kk...NO [font size=******* HUGE]NO[/font] Thats as bad as the idea tank pilots should only get to drive, all turrets have additional gunners. Absurd. Tanker skills in ISK's in, everyone else reaps benefit, tank owner has to restock when fail gunners get ya killed. How about this: Tank owner(the guy who skilled in purchased and built tank) drives the tank with full operation of top turret, small turrets are not only optional but are lockable to no-one/team/squad. my idea is a complete revamp of tanks so nothing that we have currently has any relevance to it, isk price, who owns it and what seat they get, what skills they have spent all their sp on. it has no relevance at this moment in time. its a basic idea so the argument i bought it and skilled into it so its all mine is irrelevent. its not just yours in my idea. its a squad asset. the owner could be the top gunner if that was his/ her prefered position although its unlikely but its still a choice. as for who buys it. you, corp,squad,team, a friend, borrow or steal it. as for sp well you no longer need 20-30 mil sp to be any good. you only need sp for the seat you prefer to take. It's not a revamp, it's destruction of tanking as we know it.
Spkr4theDead International-Fleet 781	Posted - 2013.09.21 06:39:00 - [87] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: The Attorney General wrote: ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: my idea is a complete revamp of tanks so nothing that we have currently has any relevance to it, isk price, who owns it and what seat they get, what skills they have spent all their sp on. it has no relevance at this moment in time. its a basic idea so the argument i bought it and skilled into it so its all mine is irrelevent. its not just yours in my idea. its a squad asset. the owner could be the top gunner if that was his/ her prefered position although its unlikely but its still a choice. as for who buys it. you, corp,squad,team, a friend, borrow or steal it. as for sp well you no longer need 20-30 mil sp to be any good. you only need sp for the seat you prefer to take. Someone needs to skill into the chassis. Someone needs to skill into the main turret. If the person who skills into the chassis is the driver, he would never skill into turrets that he won't be using. If the person who skills into the chassis also has to skill into the turret, he is investing SP for someone else to use something, which is ridiculous. And yes, whomever is calling it in has to skill into the whole vehicle, which he can't use, because that is how the fitting system works. Your idea is bad, but instead of giving it up you are going to try and keep acting like it is a good idea. Also, you don't need 20 million SP to be good in tanks. You cna make very servicable fits for less than 6, can roll PC if you choose your skills wisely at 7, and be fit maxxed for one type of tank at around 8.5-9.5. So I'll support this type of BS as long as: Heavies need a Logi to spawn in their HMG for them. Only Logis can equip nanohives. All infantry must get their grenades from a nanaohive, as they spawn with zero. All infantry spawn with half of their current ammo, to promote teamwork. All infantry are limited by the meta level of what their squad leader spawns in. He goes MLT, you do to. Because if you want to promote teamwork, lets do it with infantry as well. Because as long as an Assault troop with a Duvolle and AV nades is an omni threat, then we can't be trying to force teamwork on other parts of the game. All of this is completely irrelevant because tanking is already highly team oriented if you want to survive. You can't ignore the infantry with you, because if they pull back and you decide to hang out and try and get more kills, you are getting blown up pretty fast. did i say someone had to skill into the chassis, did i say someone had to skill into the turrets, i did say they are only responsible for their own space in the tank. specialise or jack of all trades it thats upto the individual crew member. calling in the vehicle. why would anyone have to be skilled into it. on the current system they would have too but this is not in the current system its an idea and things could be changed so it could be implemented. like i said use it as a squad asset. orbitals are squad assets so they could easy be called in via a system like that. also who is to say ccp couldn't come up with an option to fit your own part of the tank in vehicle fittings so just a chassis or just a turret with their own pq/cpu etc. the chassis pilot could call in the vehicle and it then is asked by the system which gunner he is using. he selects the main gunner and the main gunner gets a message to accept. once accepted the vehicle comes in with the completed vehicle with one persons chassis and the others turret LOL Can't use a PRO suit without skilling into it. Can't use a Duvolle without skilling into it. Can't use officer weapons without proficiency 3. How the hell do you expect us to use good tanks without skilling into them? Not a single one of your ideas is worth the keyboard it was typed on.
Spkr4theDead International-Fleet 781	Posted - 2013.09.21 06:40:00 - [88] - Quote KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: Sgt Buttscratch wrote: So let me get this straight... Build a tank for 800k-3kk, then drive it and operate a turret with only 180 degree's POV, then allow some absolute scrub to get all the fun using the main turret that costs anyhere from 100k-1kk...NO [font size=******* HUGE]NO[/font] Thats as bad as the idea tank pilots should only get to drive, all turrets have additional gunners. Absurd. Tanker skills in ISK's in, everyone else reaps benefit, tank owner has to restock when fail gunners get ya killed. How about this: Tank owner(the guy who skilled in purchased and built tank) drives the tank with full operation of top turret, small turrets are not only optional but are lockable to no-one/team/squad. Perhaps don't bring tank in pubs then. Look something else for solo pwn suit. Why does anybody need PRO gear in pubs to win?
Godin Thekiller Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 782	Posted - 2013.09.21 06:40:00 - [89] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: Void Echo wrote: ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: [tanks for WP how about ISK, you still cant buy anything with WP, all they are good for are orbital strikes. but still your post is flawed in so many ways... and to top that you even admitted that you want tanks removed from the game (you may have not meant it (no you meant it)), and now your one of the biggest enemies we face as we are trying to achieve balance. after I make this post, this thread will probably be locked for trolling or il just stop posting on this nonsense and let you non-tankers decide the fate of tankers for the 92nd time. you buy an orbital with wp so why not a squad based tank if you have the squad members to use it. you state my suggestion is flawed in many ways but none of you have stated why, plenty of no's and zero reasons why. no i dont want tanks removed but if tank users are unwilling to compromise then they have no purpose in dust you are asking that tank users have the only say on balance to tanks when any buff to tanks is a nerf to all infantry to which there are more of us than you. as for trolling. i made a legitimate suggestion. it is you few unwilling to take any suggestions or work on them to come up with a better idea who are trolling. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=99075&find=unread 1: You don't buy OB's with wp's; they still cost ISK. 2: Read further posts for several reasons. 3: We give you ungrateful ******* covering fire, and distract 1-3 guys for you. 4: Wait, when did it become more pilots vs. more infantry? 5: Although it is a legit proposal, doesn't mean it was a good one. There's other ways of making us work better with you; gimping us isn't it.
Spkr4theDead International-Fleet 781	Posted - 2013.09.21 06:42:00 - [90] - Quote KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: Well perhaps solo operated tanks could be smaller ones, like scout tanks? And multi operated be the toughest heavy tanks? No

Spkr4theDead International-Fleet 781	Posted - 2013.09.21 06:46:00 - [91] - Quote Scheneighnay McBob wrote: Support. Unfortunately, I knew how the community would react to this, since I suggested it several times in the past. No matter how much sense it makes, they think that a high price tag justifies being able to go solo. It doesn't. Price = potential effectiveness; not base effectiveness. It doesn't make sense at all.
Spkr4theDead International-Fleet 781	Posted - 2013.09.21 06:47:00 - [92] - Quote Delta 749 wrote: Funny how all the tankers say they work as part of their team but any suggestions making their vehicle most effective with team work get shot down isnt it Anyway I bet you a dollar they would lock everyone out and just jump around every seat if your suggestions were ever implemented You're still ignoring my offer, Delta. Put up or shut up. You know nothing of tanking.
Godin Thekiller Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 788	Posted - 2013.09.21 06:51:00 - [93] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Scheneighnay McBob wrote: Support. Unfortunately, I knew how the community would react to this, since I suggested it several times in the past. No matter how much sense it makes, they think that a high price tag justifies being able to go solo. It doesn't. Price = potential effectiveness; not base effectiveness. It doesn't make sense at all. I'm not sure why he thinks that since it's a high price tag, it should be split up. That's like saying Heavies Would cost 500k, but needs to get ammo from logi's at the start, and can't move.
Godin Thekiller Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 788	Posted - 2013.09.21 06:58:00 - [94] - Quote KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: Well perhaps solo operated tanks could be smaller ones, like scout tanks? And multi operated be the toughest heavy tanks? It's over. Not going to happen. No.
Godin Thekiller Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 790	Posted - 2013.09.21 07:01:00 - [95] - Quote Delta 749 wrote: Funny how all the tankers say they work as part of their team but any suggestions making their vehicle most effective with team work get shot down isnt it Anyway I bet you a dollar they would lock everyone out and just jump around every seat if your suggestions were ever implemented Funny how none of the infantry scrubs respond to any of the ideas the pilots put up, or call them stupid, and when we ask them why, they just keep calling it stupid. And as I have, and all the other pilots here has said, this makes us literally dependent on getting someone to hop in, and pray to god that they are not ******* stupid, or always have a squad mate. You really think that's okay?
Spkr4theDead International-Fleet 781	Posted - 2013.09.21 07:04:00 - [96] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: Delta 749 wrote: Funny how all the tankers say they work as part of their team but any suggestions making their vehicle most effective with team work get shot down isnt it Anyway I bet you a dollar they would lock everyone out and just jump around every seat if your suggestions were ever implemented Funny how none of the infantry scrubs respond to any of the ideas the pilots put up, or call them stupid, and when we ask them why, they just keep calling it stupid. And as I have, and all the other pilots here has said, this makes us literally dependent on getting someone to hop in, and pray to god that they are not ******* stupid, or always have a squad mate. You really think that's okay? Of course he thinks it's okay, because it's not going to directly affect him.
Godin Thekiller Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 790	Posted - 2013.09.21 07:07:00 - [97] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Godin Thekiller wrote: Delta 749 wrote: Funny how all the tankers say they work as part of their team but any suggestions making their vehicle most effective with team work get shot down isnt it Anyway I bet you a dollar they would lock everyone out and just jump around every seat if your suggestions were ever implemented Funny how none of the infantry scrubs respond to any of the ideas the pilots put up, or call them stupid, and when we ask them why, they just keep calling it stupid. And as I have, and all the other pilots here has said, this makes us literally dependent on getting someone to hop in, and pray to god that they are not ******* stupid, or always have a squad mate. You really think that's okay? Of course he thinks it's okay, because it's not going to directly affect him. Well, that's a goddamn shame then
ADAM-OF-EVE Svartur Bjorn Neo Terra Empire 304	Posted - 2013.09.21 10:43:00 - [98] - Quote new suggestion to bring tankers in line with all other suits in game seeing as that is what they want to use them like. nerf ehp to just slightly more than a heavy, nerf dps to slightly more than a hmg for blasters and slightly more than a fg for rails, remove the 2 spare seats, remove the 2 spare weapons, slow the speed down to slightly more than a heavy reduece the cost to slightly more than a heavy remove the lock on of swarms now your still more powerful than everyone else but more on equal terms.
ADAM-OF-EVE Svartur Bjorn Neo Terra Empire 304	Posted - 2013.09.21 11:45:00 - [99] - Quote misconceptions of most tank drivers "we provide cover" no you don't, we jump inside to hide and you moan, we hide down the side and you drive away because you think we are going to jump inside,you don't go anywhere near the enemy because all you care about is protecting your own hide so we are left exposed or cant advance without taking losses. "we provide covering fire" no you don't, you are only out there to get kills. any shooting you do is because it might get you a kill. your not covering open ground or suppressing the enemy. your purely kill whoring. " we are team players" biggest misconception of them all. your in a 3 seater tank and all you want to do is solo in it, if you had a choice you would lock the vehicle and remove the turrets so you could fit more dps and tank. i would hardly call that team oriented behaviour. you complain when someone is in your vehicle who might actually help you spot swarmers or fg before they hit you. instead you still prefer to solo and blame av for your issues or the team on the ground for not killing them before they get to you. " we spent all the isk and sp to use them so we should be able to do what we want" a FG user spends alot of sp and isk to do his job dedicated to kill you a swarm user spends alot of sp and isk to do his job dedicated to kill you only difference your weapons kill everyone the same regardless of what everyone else has fit. also you might die once in 5 games losing a mil isk. mercs on the ground might die alot more times in that same amount and lose alot more isk than you. people are treating tanks like suits and expect to solo in them the same as a merc solo's in his suit but your wrong. you are a merc first then a tank driver. the tank is an asset same as a piece of equipment thrown on the ground for support or tactical situations. they need to be look at in the same way and not treated and compared to other suits and weapons.
Spkr4theDead International-Fleet 785	Posted - 2013.09.21 15:29:00 - [100] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: new suggestion to bring tankers in line with all other suits in game seeing as that is what they want to use them like. nerf ehp to just slightly more than a heavy, nerf dps to slightly more than a hmg for blasters and slightly more than a fg for rails, remove the 2 spare seats, remove the 2 spare weapons, slow the speed down to slightly more than a heavy reduece the cost to slightly more than a heavy remove the lock on of swarms now your still more powerful than everyone else but more on equal terms. LOL That's not a tank, that's a joke. Heavies aren't more powerful than anything. You can still easily be outgunned by anything as well. Before the TAR nerf, it was already proven that one of those was on par with a large ADV blaster.

Spkr4theDead International-Fleet 785	Posted - 2013.09.21 15:34:00 - [101] - Quote I really can't understand how you, as a non-tanker, can believe that you should tell us how tanks are supposed to operate, when you don't tank yourself.
Spkr4theDead International-Fleet 785	Posted - 2013.09.21 15:56:00 - [102] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: misconceptions of most tank drivers "we provide cover" no you don't, we jump inside to hide and you moan, we hide down the side and you drive away because you think we are going to jump inside,you don't go anywhere near the enemy because all you care about is protecting your own hide so we are left exposed or cant advance without taking losses. I sometimes wait minutes in the redline after getting in my tank, because idiots just won't get out. What do they do when they jump in? Fire a couple of salvos of missiles. They never even join the squad to see what's going on. When we're rolling around, they don't kill AV. We don't go near enemies because they don't kill them. They expect us to do everything. I don't know how many times I've advanced on something, only to find myself alone against a squad because the rest of my team is nowhere to be found. "we provide covering fire" no you don't, you are only out there to get kills. any shooting you do is because it might get you a kill. your not covering open ground or suppressing the enemy. your purely kill whoring. You make it sound like a tanker getting a kill is an accident. A tanker on open ground = easy pickings for AV. " we are team players" biggest misconception of them all. your in a 3 seater tank and all you want to do is solo in it, if you had a choice you would lock the vehicle and remove the turrets so you could fit more dps and tank. i would hardly call that team oriented behaviour. you complain when someone is in your vehicle who might actually help you spot swarmers or fg before they hit you. instead you still prefer to solo and blame av for your issues or the team on the ground for not killing them before they get to you. We're more team players than infantry are. Removing the small turrets is a great way to keep costs down, as well as so far, the only way to not broadcast your position to enemy AV, as well as the entire galaxy, because if we don't give blue dots things to shoot at, then we're apparently doing it wrong. It's just removing the turrets, not a lock. They could still get a ride if we choose to give them one. They never join the squad, so how are they going to spot threats for us? " we spent all the isk and sp to use them so we should be able to do what we want" Why do you think other people, especially you, should dictate how we put our SP and ISK to use? a FG user spends alot of sp and isk to do his job dedicated to kill you I'll grant that forge guns require more SP in general, because only the heavy suit can wield them. a swarm user spends alot of sp and isk to do his job dedicated to kill you LOL NO It only requires 273,600 SP to unlock Haywire Wiyrkomi swarms. only difference your weapons kill everyone the same regardless of what everyone else has fit. also you might die once in 5 games losing a mil isk. mercs on the ground might die alot more times in that same amount and lose alot more isk than you. ...... Dropsuits don't cost a million ISK. They don't cost 500,000 ISK. Very rarely will they cost 200,000 ISK. The blaster I use for PC costs 1.5mil ISK. Infantry running all PRO gear has to die 7 times to equal the cost of that specific tank. The ISK Wiyrkomi costs 28,845 ISK. A heavy IG-L repair module costs 46,320 ISK. Infantry cost =/= vehicle cost people are treating tanks like suits and expect to solo in them the same as a merc solo's in his suit but your wrong. you are a merc first then a tank driver. the tank is an asset same as a piece of equipment thrown on the ground for support or tactical situations. they need to be look at in the same way and not treated and compared to other suits and weapons. No, because our SP is in vehicles. If we don't have above 20mil SP, we're terrible on foot. A tank =/= nanohive or nanite injector. I pray that CCP doesn't consider your opinion.
ADAM-OF-EVE Svartur Bjorn Neo Terra Empire 304	Posted - 2013.09.21 15:56:00 - [103] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: I really can't understand how you, as a non-tanker, can believe that you should tell us how tanks are supposed to operate, when you don't tank yourself. anymore, i prefer teamwork and tanks in their current state offer none of that. you look at tanks as a solo weapons and direct all your griefs about them and what buffs you want based on that where as i see them for what they should be, as support weapons with a 3 man crew and they should be balanced accordingly.
Spkr4theDead International-Fleet 786	Posted - 2013.09.21 15:59:00 - [104] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: I really can't understand how you, as a non-tanker, can believe that you should tell us how tanks are supposed to operate, when you don't tank yourself. anymore, i prefer teamwork and tanks in their current state offer none of that. you look at tanks as a solo weapons and direct all your griefs about them and what buffs you want based on that where as i see them for what they should be, as support weapons with a 3 man crew and they should be balanced accordingly. You're not even countering my points. You're repeating the same vomit you've been spewing on this thread. Why don't you reply to any of my points?
sly Bandit OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 38	Posted - 2013.09.21 16:00:00 - [105] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: new suggestion to bring tankers in line with all other suits in game seeing as that is what they want to use them like. >all other suits >suits A tank is not a suit it's a vehicle....
ADAM-OF-EVE Svartur Bjorn Neo Terra Empire 304	Posted - 2013.09.21 16:03:00 - [106] - Quote sly Bandit wrote: ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: new suggestion to bring tankers in line with all other suits in game seeing as that is what they want to use them like. >all other suits >suits A tank is not a suit it's a vehicle.... and that why i worded the sentence that way
ADAM-OF-EVE Svartur Bjorn Neo Terra Empire 304	Posted - 2013.09.21 16:05:00 - [107] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: I really can't understand how you, as a non-tanker, can believe that you should tell us how tanks are supposed to operate, when you don't tank yourself. anymore, i prefer teamwork and tanks in their current state offer none of that. you look at tanks as a solo weapons and direct all your griefs about them and what buffs you want based on that where as i see them for what they should be, as support weapons with a 3 man crew and they should be balanced accordingly. You're not even countering my points. You're repeating the same vomit you've been spewing on this thread. Why don't you reply to any of my points? i did. i don't drive them anymore. because they are not fit for purpose. and no. death dealing killing machines is not what i mean by fit for purpose if they are ever going to be fixed they need a little more work than a simple buff to ehp or nerf to av or locks on vehicles.
Spkr4theDead International-Fleet 786	Posted - 2013.09.21 16:09:00 - [108] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: I really can't understand how you, as a non-tanker, can believe that you should tell us how tanks are supposed to operate, when you don't tank yourself. anymore, i prefer teamwork and tanks in their current state offer none of that. you look at tanks as a solo weapons and direct all your griefs about them and what buffs you want based on that where as i see them for what they should be, as support weapons with a 3 man crew and they should be balanced accordingly. You're not even countering my points. You're repeating the same vomit you've been spewing on this thread. Why don't you reply to any of my points? i did. i don't drive them anymore. because they are not fit for purpose. and no. death dealing killing machines is not what i mean by fit for purpose There's no way you're an ex-tanker if you're so hostile to them with your terrible, game-destroying ideas. CCP is giving us the option of offensive or defensive tanks. Some will try to fit the best of them. Nowhere in their plans for vehicle balancing does it include your absolutely terrible ideas. How could it possibly benefit a tanker if it requires 2 to operate a vehicle? There would be no reason at all to skill into them, ever. You're still not replying to any of my points.
ADAM-OF-EVE Svartur Bjorn Neo Terra Empire 304	Posted - 2013.09.21 16:26:00 - [109] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: I really can't understand how you, as a non-tanker, can believe that you should tell us how tanks are supposed to operate, when you don't tank yourself. anymore, i prefer teamwork and tanks in their current state offer none of that. you look at tanks as a solo weapons and direct all your griefs about them and what buffs you want based on that where as i see them for what they should be, as support weapons with a 3 man crew and they should be balanced accordingly. You're not even countering my points. You're repeating the same vomit you've been spewing on this thread. Why don't you reply to any of my points? i did. i don't drive them anymore. because they are not fit for purpose. and no. death dealing killing machines is not what i mean by fit for purpose There's no way you're an ex-tanker if you're so hostile to them with your terrible, game-destroying ideas. CCP is giving us the option of offensive or defensive tanks. Some will try to fit the best of them. Nowhere in their plans for vehicle balancing does it include your absolutely terrible ideas. How could it possibly benefit a tanker if it requires 2 to operate a vehicle? There would be no reason at all to skill into them, ever. You're still not replying to any of my points. what points. when you start making constructive criticism about the idea instead of rambling your nonsense then maybe i will. tanks are never ever going to be fixed with people like you stuck with your idealistic views of what tanks should be like. fair enough, stick with your flawed tank mentality, when ccp who is obviously having a hard time giving you what you want finally release what they have and it fails don't come crying on the forums because you will get no sympathy from infantry. we may not be in tanks anymore or have never tried tanks but we are the only ones in the ideal position to tell you what is effective against us and how we might counter you without rendering either of us UP or OP. we are the ones you need to help you. if your not willing to compromise or work with us then you deserve being blown up
Spkr4theDead International-Fleet 787	Posted - 2013.09.21 16:30:00 - [110] - Quote Whatever

Spkr4theDead International-Fleet 787	Posted - 2013.09.21 16:33:00 - [111] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: misconceptions of most tank drivers "we provide cover" no you don't, we jump inside to hide and you moan, we hide down the side and you drive away because you think we are going to jump inside,you don't go anywhere near the enemy because all you care about is protecting your own hide so we are left exposed or cant advance without taking losses. I sometimes wait minutes in the redline after getting in my tank, because idiots just won't get out. What do they do when they jump in? Fire a couple of salvos of missiles. They never even join the squad to see what's going on. When we're rolling around, they don't kill AV. We don't go near enemies because they don't kill them. They expect us to do everything. I don't know how many times I've advanced on something, only to find myself alone against a squad because the rest of my team is nowhere to be found. "we provide covering fire" no you don't, you are only out there to get kills. any shooting you do is because it might get you a kill. your not covering open ground or suppressing the enemy. your purely kill whoring. You make it sound like a tanker getting a kill is an accident. A tanker on open ground = easy pickings for AV. " we are team players" biggest misconception of them all. your in a 3 seater tank and all you want to do is solo in it, if you had a choice you would lock the vehicle and remove the turrets so you could fit more dps and tank. i would hardly call that team oriented behaviour. you complain when someone is in your vehicle who might actually help you spot swarmers or fg before they hit you. instead you still prefer to solo and blame av for your issues or the team on the ground for not killing them before they get to you. We're more team players than infantry are. Removing the small turrets is a great way to keep costs down, as well as so far, the only way to not broadcast your position to enemy AV, as well as the entire galaxy, because if we don't give blue dots things to shoot at, then we're apparently doing it wrong. It's just removing the turrets, not a lock. They could still get a ride if we choose to give them one. They never join the squad, so how are they going to spot threats for us? " we spent all the isk and sp to use them so we should be able to do what we want" Why do you think other people, especially you, should dictate how we put our SP and ISK to use? a FG user spends alot of sp and isk to do his job dedicated to kill you I'll grant that forge guns require more SP in general, because only the heavy suit can wield them. a swarm user spends alot of sp and isk to do his job dedicated to kill you LOL NO It only requires 273,600 SP to unlock Haywire Wiyrkomi swarms. only difference your weapons kill everyone the same regardless of what everyone else has fit. also you might die once in 5 games losing a mil isk. mercs on the ground might die alot more times in that same amount and lose alot more isk than you. ...... Dropsuits don't cost a million ISK. They don't cost 500,000 ISK. Very rarely will they cost 200,000 ISK. The blaster I use for PC costs 1.5mil ISK. Infantry running all PRO gear has to die 7 times to equal the cost of that specific tank. The ISK Wiyrkomi costs 28,845 ISK. A heavy IG-L repair module costs 46,320 ISK. Infantry cost =/= vehicle cost people are treating tanks like suits and expect to solo in them the same as a merc solo's in his suit but your wrong. you are a merc first then a tank driver. the tank is an asset same as a piece of equipment thrown on the ground for support or tactical situations. they need to be look at in the same way and not treated and compared to other suits and weapons. No, because our SP is in vehicles. If we don't have above 20mil SP, we're terrible on foot. A tank =/= nanohive or nanite injector. I pray that CCP doesn't consider your opinion. Is it really not reasonable for you to reply to this?
R F Gyro Clones 4u 513	Posted - 2013.09.21 16:38:00 - [112] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: 1)driver drives and operates front turret and tanking modules 2)main gunner operates main turret and turret modules. 3)top gunner is exposed out of the top turret like on an lav. double tank ehp due to complexity of new tank controls. no more solo tanking. add in complete lock out on tanks by the owner. when he/she calls it in it is locked completely until he/she unlocks it for crew or it is hacked by the enemy. this allows them to select the position in the tank they want. they can also unlock for squad only or free for all. add in climbing in and out of vehicles to commit people to the tank crew and not just instant hitch a ride or hide. vehicle views would have to be tweaked slightly. driver would get a front view screen only which incorporates his /hers forward turret. main gunner would have full allround view as the tank driver currently gets while not in turret view. this comes at the expense of having your head out the top of the turret. when in turret mode you are no longer exposed but have only the turret zoom view. the top gunner is always exposed but has an extended view of the area around the tank. his turret would have a forward shield for shield tanks and an arm shield for arm tanks. he is completely protected from the direction his turret is facing.. the full crew makes the tank very effective when they work together. if 1 is taken out then this effectiveness is reduced. when the tank is in full combat mode then the top gunner is the general allround eyes. if he is taken out then its doen to the main gunner who is now at a reduced visual effectiveness. this basicly allows players to disable tanks without actually needing to destroy them This is an excellent idea, but the tanks drivers simply won't accept it (in my experience). The problem is, even though one player in a HAV is already significantly more powerful than one player not in a HAV, the tank drivers somehow think their HAVs need to be buffed "because its a tank". They have been able to lonewold pwn for so long they feel entitled.
Spkr4theDead International-Fleet 789	Posted - 2013.09.21 16:41:00 - [113] - Quote R F Gyro wrote: ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: 1)driver drives and operates front turret and tanking modules 2)main gunner operates main turret and turret modules. 3)top gunner is exposed out of the top turret like on an lav. double tank ehp due to complexity of new tank controls. no more solo tanking. add in complete lock out on tanks by the owner. when he/she calls it in it is locked completely until he/she unlocks it for crew or it is hacked by the enemy. this allows them to select the position in the tank they want. they can also unlock for squad only or free for all. add in climbing in and out of vehicles to commit people to the tank crew and not just instant hitch a ride or hide. vehicle views would have to be tweaked slightly. driver would get a front view screen only which incorporates his /hers forward turret. main gunner would have full allround view as the tank driver currently gets while not in turret view. this comes at the expense of having your head out the top of the turret. when in turret mode you are no longer exposed but have only the turret zoom view. the top gunner is always exposed but has an extended view of the area around the tank. his turret would have a forward shield for shield tanks and an arm shield for arm tanks. he is completely protected from the direction his turret is facing.. the full crew makes the tank very effective when they work together. if 1 is taken out then this effectiveness is reduced. when the tank is in full combat mode then the top gunner is the general allround eyes. if he is taken out then its doen to the main gunner who is now at a reduced visual effectiveness. this basicly allows players to disable tanks without actually needing to destroy them This is an excellent idea, but the tanks drivers simply won't accept it (in my experience). The problem is, even though one player in a HAV is already significantly more powerful than one player not in a HAV, the tank drivers somehow think their HAVs need to be buffed "because its a tank". They have been able to lonewold pwn for so long they feel entitled. Explain why you feel it's an excellent idea.
R F Gyro Clones 4u 513	Posted - 2013.09.21 16:46:00 - [114] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Explain why you feel it's an excellent idea. Because I really want tanks (HAVs) to be big, bad monsters of the battlefield. I want tanks and AV balanced so that it takes several players using good teamwork to kill them. I want proto tanks that can only be killed by a group of proto AV infantry. However, in order for tanks to be so strong it takes multiple players working as a team to kill them, and for the game to remain balanced, it must take multiple players working as a team to operate them. All the other HAV/AV balance suggestions I've seen so far are based around balancing on ISK, which is doomed to failure as we all get richer. We need to balance the game first and foremost on the most limited resource in Dust battles, which is the players. Balance on that first, and then tune the balance with ISK.
Spkr4theDead International-Fleet 789	Posted - 2013.09.21 17:09:00 - [115] - Quote R F Gyro wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Explain why you feel it's an excellent idea. Because I really want tanks (HAVs) to be big, bad monsters of the battlefield. I want tanks and AV balanced so that it takes several players using good teamwork to kill them. I want proto tanks that can only be killed by a group of proto AV infantry. However, in order for tanks to be so strong it takes multiple players working as a team to kill them, and for the game to remain balanced, it must take multiple players working as a team to operate them. All the other HAV/AV balance suggestions I've seen so far are based around balancing on ISK, which is doomed to failure as we all get richer. We need to balance the game first and foremost on the most limited resource in Dust battles, which is the players. Balance on that first, and then tune the balance with ISK. Lol you can't get infantry that visit the forums to use teamwork to take out tanks now. It's a terrible idea.
R F Gyro Clones 4u 513	Posted - 2013.09.21 17:13:00 - [116] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: R F Gyro wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Explain why you feel it's an excellent idea. Because I really want tanks (HAVs) to be big, bad monsters of the battlefield. I want tanks and AV balanced so that it takes several players using good teamwork to kill them. I want proto tanks that can only be killed by a group of proto AV infantry. However, in order for tanks to be so strong it takes multiple players working as a team to kill them, and for the game to remain balanced, it must take multiple players working as a team to operate them. All the other HAV/AV balance suggestions I've seen so far are based around balancing on ISK, which is doomed to failure as we all get richer. We need to balance the game first and foremost on the most limited resource in Dust battles, which is the players. Balance on that first, and then tune the balance with ISK. Lol you can't get infantry that visit the forums to use teamwork to take out tanks now. It's a terrible idea. Ahh.... I see. I need to explain my reasoning, whereas you merely need to "lol" and state "its a terrible idea". I admit, you've soundly beaten me in this debate.
Lurchasaurus SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 1982	Posted - 2013.09.21 18:28:00 - [117] - Quote R F Gyro wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: R F Gyro wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Explain why you feel it's an excellent idea. Because I really want tanks (HAVs) to be big, bad monsters of the battlefield. I want tanks and AV balanced so that it takes several players using good teamwork to kill them. I want proto tanks that can only be killed by a group of proto AV infantry. However, in order for tanks to be so strong it takes multiple players working as a team to kill them, and for the game to remain balanced, it must take multiple players working as a team to operate them. All the other HAV/AV balance suggestions I've seen so far are based around balancing on ISK, which is doomed to failure as we all get richer. We need to balance the game first and foremost on the most limited resource in Dust battles, which is the players. Balance on that first, and then tune the balance with ISK. Lol you can't get infantry that visit the forums to use teamwork to take out tanks now. It's a terrible idea. Ahh.... I see. I need to explain my reasoning, whereas you merely need to "lol" and state "its a terrible idea". I admit, you've soundly beaten me in this debate. People still complain that Lai Dais and swarms aren't good enough. Look anywhere on the forums. Im sure he did not mention anything because your original statement was not backed by reality. Tank risk vs. reward is appallingly unbalanced in favor of infantry. The only worse imbalance in this game is for dropships. Telling me I can no longer use my own vehicle that only I have invested sp and isk into because you dont like how my gun is bigger is not going to fly. We chose tanks, you chose a handheld gun. And guess what......your handheld guns pump out more burst damage. Hell, you dont even have to drop your anti-infantry stuff cause Lai Dais can be equipped for 15k isk, a negligible amount of CPU/PG, a 4x multiplier, and can be used with nanohives. Oh yeah, they home in and act as mines if they miss. Who is the one ruining the teamwork and balance of the game? The tanker who pays 2.5 mil isk for a tank that can be instajibbed by any two man AV team regardless of driver skill or the assault suit with a duvolle+sidearm, Lai Dais, proto triage hives, and hundreds EHP?
Spkr4theDead International-Fleet 789	Posted - 2013.09.21 19:03:00 - [118] - Quote R F Gyro wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: R F Gyro wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Explain why you feel it's an excellent idea. Because I really want tanks (HAVs) to be big, bad monsters of the battlefield. I want tanks and AV balanced so that it takes several players using good teamwork to kill them. I want proto tanks that can only be killed by a group of proto AV infantry. However, in order for tanks to be so strong it takes multiple players working as a team to kill them, and for the game to remain balanced, it must take multiple players working as a team to operate them. All the other HAV/AV balance suggestions I've seen so far are based around balancing on ISK, which is doomed to failure as we all get richer. We need to balance the game first and foremost on the most limited resource in Dust battles, which is the players. Balance on that first, and then tune the balance with ISK. Lol you can't get infantry that visit the forums to use teamwork to take out tanks now. It's a terrible idea. Ahh.... I see. I need to explain my reasoning, whereas you merely need to "lol" and state "its a terrible idea". I admit, you've soundly beaten me in this debate. I'm just doing the same thing the OP is doing.
Godin Thekiller Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 798	Posted - 2013.09.21 23:45:00 - [119] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: misconceptions of most tank drivers "we provide cover" no you don't, we jump inside to hide and you moan, we hide down the side and you drive away because you think we are going to jump inside,you don't go anywhere near the enemy because all you care about is protecting your own hide so we are left exposed or cant advance without taking losses. "we provide covering fire" no you don't, you are only out there to get kills. any shooting you do is because it might get you a kill. your not covering open ground or suppressing the enemy. your purely kill whoring. " we are team players" biggest misconception of them all. your in a 3 seater tank and all you want to do is solo in it, if you had a choice you would lock the vehicle and remove the turrets so you could fit more dps and tank. i would hardly call that team oriented behaviour. you complain when someone is in your vehicle who might actually help you spot swarmers or fg before they hit you. instead you still prefer to solo and blame av for your issues or the team on the ground for not killing them before they get to you. " we spent all the isk and sp to use them so we should be able to do what we want" a FG user spends alot of sp and isk to do his job dedicated to kill you a swarm user spends alot of sp and isk to do his job dedicated to kill you only difference your weapons kill everyone the same regardless of what everyone else has fit. also you might die once in 5 games losing a mil isk. mercs on the ground might die alot more times in that same amount and lose alot more isk than you. people are treating tanks like suits and expect to solo in them the same as a merc solo's in his suit but your wrong. you are a merc first then a tank driver. the tank is an asset same as a piece of equipment thrown on the ground for support or tactical situations. they need to be look at in the same way and not treated and compared to other suits and weapons. lol, let's see: 1: I literally use My HAV to cover my squad mates. If my slots are full (damn bluedots), then I tell them to get behind me and peek in and out. Also, I use it to block incoming AV fire at other vehicles, so I will get damaged instead of them blowing up. 2: I will either sit back behind the group and lay out suppressing or covering fire for my team to move up and further put pressure on the other team, or I will rush in and scare the ** out of people, therefore distracting them for a moment, and allowing my team to rush in right after me. Half the time, doing so I kill about 1/2 the targets I shoot at (hit detection is making it worse), and get assists on the rest. 3: Actually, the only reason why I and many other pilots hate the small turrets is because they are quite **. But wait, you don't know that because you don't use them or is a pilot either . Making them better would have us instead of running from people, driving towards them, as good turrets=more wp's. And to clear it up, it's not their DPS; it's the fact that most of the time, it misses, even with the sight right on target. 4: Wait, I'm confused. A swarmer or FGer doesn't have to have someone else aim and shoot their gun. What, you want them to be a two man team too? 5: We don't treat them like dropsuits. You just think we do. You clearly don't understand our problems, and when we say what we want, you and other scrubs say, "No, that's stupid." Or don't comment, when a lot of those said ideas are good. But then you go right around and say that you want us basically gimped without a idiot or a person taken off the board, and when we say no, you claim that we are unfair, and that we are just being selfish. You just want us to be further gimped. Be quiet.
Old Bstard The Walking Targets 8	Posted - 2013.09.21 23:56:00 - [120] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: 1)driver drives and operates front turret and tanking modules 2)main gunner operates main turret and turret modules. 3)top gunner is exposed out of the top turret like on an lav. double tank ehp due to complexity of new tank controls. no more solo tanking. add in complete lock out on tanks by the owner. when he/she calls it in it is locked completely until he/she unlocks it for crew or it is hacked by the enemy. this allows them to select the position in the tank they want. they can also unlock for squad only or free for all. add in climbing in and out of vehicles to commit people to the tank crew and not just instant hitch a ride or hide. vehicle views would have to be tweaked slightly. driver would get a front view screen only which incorporates his /hers forward turret. main gunner would have full allround view as the tank driver currently gets while not in turret view. this comes at the expense of having your head out the top of the turret. when in turret mode you are no longer exposed but have only the turret zoom view. the top gunner is always exposed but has an extended view of the area around the tank. his turret would have a forward shield for shield tanks and an arm shield for arm tanks. he is completely protected from the direction his turret is facing.. the full crew makes the tank very effective when they work together. if 1 is taken out then this effectiveness is reduced. when the tank is in full combat mode then the top gunner is the general allround eyes. if he is taken out then its doen to the main gunner who is now at a reduced visual effectiveness. this basicly allows players to disable tanks without actually needing to destroy them Obviously not a tanker.

Godin Thekiller Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 799	Posted - 2013.09.22 00:00:00 - [121] - Quote R F Gyro wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: Explain why you feel it's an excellent idea. Because I really want tanks (HAVs) to be big, bad monsters of the battlefield. I want tanks and AV balanced so that it takes several players using good teamwork to kill them. I want proto tanks that can only be killed by a group of proto AV infantry. However, in order for tanks to be so strong it takes multiple players working as a team to kill them, and for the game to remain balanced, it must take multiple players working as a team to operate them. All the other HAV/AV balance suggestions I've seen so far are based around balancing on ISK, which is doomed to failure as we all get richer. We need to balance the game first and foremost on the most limited resource in Dust battles, which is the players. Balance on that first, and then tune the balance with ISK. Well, I'll explain why this is a horrible idea, as well as counter your points: 1: I pay for the entire thing, so why should I give half of the purpose of it to a random bluedot? 2: I've not seen that many balancing around ISK, other than reduction in price for specific ones (such as the PROTO turrets that are almost a million), as they aren't balanced with the other's price. 3: Requiring more than 3 or 4 people to kill one HAV with PROTO weapons is imo overkill at that point. The HAV should be able to survive long enough to stay for a short period, and escape, and if they trap it, or have more than enough AV, it's dead. 4: Like I said, we already do require more than just the pilot for a HAV to do well. Backup AV, a Logistics or two and a LLV repping it and the people around it, and gunners keeping the infantry away (well, if they would fix the small turret aim on HAV's anyways), as well as a spotter to tell the said HAV where incoming AV is, and where infantry that needs to be hit is.
sixteensixty4 CAUSE 4 C0NCERN 121	Posted - 2013.09.22 00:29:00 - [122] - Quote Really, this got 7 pages?? As someone that doesnt agree with fellow tankers, this thread has made me see what they prolly go through This is by far, the most stupid "tank thread" i ever seen, but you know, it was made by some guy called "adam and steve" Troll thread is troll thread Dear ****., contact me in game and i'll call you a fully specced shield tank, so you can have a turn, as clearly you dont know shite about tanks.... untill then you should just stfu, as your opinion counts for ** all, at the very least you could specced into proto swarms like the rest of us, but no, your rocking that milita gettting all butthurt coz you cant even dent us if you canrt solo a tank, then you are, a BAD player, end off, you suck dude, and should prolly go play sudoku or some sh!t
Godin Thekiller Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 799	Posted - 2013.09.22 00:42:00 - [123] - Quote sixteensixty4 wrote: Really, this got 7 pages?? As someone that doesnt agree with fellow tankers, this thread has made me see what they prolly go through This is by far, the most stupid "tank thread" i ever seen, but you know, it was made by some guy called "adam and steve" Troll thread is troll thread Dear ****., contact me in game and i'll call you a fully specced shield tank, so you can have a turn, as clearly you dont know shite about tanks.... untill then you should just stfu, as your opinion counts for ** all, at the very least you could specced into proto swarms like the rest of us, but no, your rocking that milita gettting all butthurt coz you cant even dent us if you canrt solo a tank, then you are, a BAD player, end off, you suck dude, and should prolly go play sudoku or some sh!t You don't need to insult the guy so rudely......
sixteensixty4 CAUSE 4 C0NCERN 121	Posted - 2013.09.22 00:44:00 - [124] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: sixteensixty4 wrote: Really, this got 7 pages?? As someone that doesnt agree with fellow tankers, this thread has made me see what they prolly go through This is by far, the most stupid "tank thread" i ever seen, but you know, it was made by some guy called "adam and steve" Troll thread is troll thread Dear ****., contact me in game and i'll call you a fully specced shield tank, so you can have a turn, as clearly you dont know shite about tanks.... untill then you should just stfu, as your opinion counts for ** all, at the very least you could specced into proto swarms like the rest of us, but no, your rocking that milita gettting all butthurt coz you cant even dent us if you canrt solo a tank, then you are, a BAD player, end off, you suck dude, and should prolly go play sudoku or some sh!t You don't need to insult the guy so rudely...... Clearly i do, or i wouldnt have posted
Godin Thekiller Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 801	Posted - 2013.09.22 00:51:00 - [125] - Quote sixteensixty4 wrote: Godin Thekiller wrote: [quote=sixteensixty4]Really, this got 7 pages?? As someone that doesnt agree with fellow tankers, this thread has made me see what they prolly go through This is by far, the most stupid "tank thread" i ever seen, but you know, it was made by some guy called "adam and steve" Troll thread is troll thread Dear ****., contact me in game and i'll call you a fully specced shield tank, so you can have a turn, as clearly you dont know shite about tanks.... untill then you should just stfu, as your opinion counts for ** all, at the very least you could specced into proto swarms like the rest of us, but no, your rocking that milita gettting all butthurt coz you cant even dent us if you canrt solo a tank, then you are, a BAD player, end off, you suck dude, and should prolly go play sudoku or some sh!t You don't need to insult the guy so rudely...... Clearly i do, or i wouldnt have posted [/quoted] sigh............
KEROSIINI-TERO Seraphim Initiative.. 747	Posted - 2013.09.22 14:01:00 - [126] - Quote Tebu Gan wrote: NO I spend the money on the tank, I control it. Nuff said. Bad argument
Scheneighnay McBob Bojo's School of the Trades 3218	Posted - 2013.09.22 14:59:00 - [127] - Quote Void Echo wrote: Scheneighnay McBob wrote: Support. Unfortunately, I knew how the community would react to this, since I suggested it several times in the past. No matter how much sense it makes, they think that a high price tag justifies being able to go solo. It doesn't. Price = potential effectiveness; not base effectiveness. actually its because of the personal investment we put into our vehicles that makes us not want to trust random retards with our own stuff. im sorry that your idea of how infantry behaves doesn't exist Every other vehicle also requires personal investment. If you want to use a vehicle well, get in a squad.
KEROSIINI-TERO Seraphim Initiative.. 747	Posted - 2013.09.22 15:05:00 - [128] - Quote Lurchasaurus wrote: In EVE a single capsuleer can manipulate a giant deathstar of galactic obliteration. ^ Debate Over ^ I think my combat engineered clone can handle driving a tracked vehicle while manning a single gun. Sorry, bad argument. You're trying use lore but your point about lore is wrong. Eve ships have crews of thousands. And also the podpilots are using special interface, which merc clones don't have, to control ships.
pegasis prime BIG BAD W0LVES 1013	Posted - 2013.09.22 15:07:00 - [129] - Quote KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: Lurchasaurus wrote: In EVE a single capsuleer can manipulate a giant deathstar of galactic obliteration. ^ Debate Over ^ I think my combat engineered clone can handle driving a tracked vehicle while manning a single gun. Sorry, bad argument. You're trying use lore but your point about lore is wrong. Eve ships have crews of thousands. And also the podpilots are using special interface, which merc clones don't have, to control ships. Im pretty sure the smaller teck 2 ships dont have a crew. I could be wrong its been a while.
Spkr4theDead International-Fleet 809	Posted - 2013.09.22 15:12:00 - [130] - Quote KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: Tebu Gan wrote: NO I spend the money on the tank, I control it. Nuff said. Bad argument It would be the same if someone else had to deploy your equipment. You put the SP and ISK into it, so you should control it. You have bad ideas.

Spkr4theDead International-Fleet 809	Posted - 2013.09.22 15:14:00 - [131] - Quote KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: Lurchasaurus wrote: In EVE a single capsuleer can manipulate a giant deathstar of galactic obliteration. ^ Debate Over ^ I think my combat engineered clone can handle driving a tracked vehicle while manning a single gun. Sorry, bad argument. You're trying use lore but your point about lore is wrong. Eve ships have crews of thousands. And also the podpilots are using special interface, which merc clones don't have, to control ships. How is it a bad argument?
KEROSIINI-TERO Seraphim Initiative.. 747	Posted - 2013.09.22 15:34:00 - [132] - Quote Lurchasaurus wrote: swarmers should need a second infatnry guy to load the next rockets into the launcher.....after all.......teamwork.... That might actually make a good mechanic! Imagine Swarm being quite powerful but after each shot you'd have to take it off shoulder and reload it next to your foot BUT You could have a team mate doing that while swarm is on your shoulder and reload you in a fraction of a time.
KEROSIINI-TERO Seraphim Initiative.. 747	Posted - 2013.09.22 15:42:00 - [133] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: Well perhaps solo operated tanks could be smaller ones, like scout tanks? And multi operated be the toughest heavy tanks? It's over. Not going to happen. No. Curious, why? Money isn't the reason - isk is irrelevant in battlefield balance.
Crash Monster Snipers Anonymous 1345	Posted - 2013.09.22 16:09:00 - [134] - Quote What's all this crap about "promotes cooperation" all the time? Unless you manage to have some good folks on when you are playing you can't count on blues to do anything but impede whatever the feck you are trying to do. We do not have the player base to redesign crap so that all the lone wolves have to buddy up with random blues. It ruins gaming experience two different ways. You want to buddy up with folks -- knock yourself out -- don't handicap everyone else in the process.
KEROSIINI-TERO Seraphim Initiative.. 747	Posted - 2013.09.22 16:17:00 - [135] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: Lurchasaurus wrote: In EVE a single capsuleer can manipulate a giant deathstar of galactic obliteration. ^ Debate Over ^ I think my combat engineered clone can handle driving a tracked vehicle while manning a single gun. Sorry, bad argument. You're trying use lore but your point about lore is wrong. Eve ships have crews of thousands. And also the podpilots are using special interface, which merc clones don't have, to control ships. How is it a bad argument? It is bad argument because saying lore is the reason, but lore itself points to other direction. A minor detail. BTW lore should not be taken into account in balancing the battlefield.
Spkr4theDead International-Fleet 819	Posted - 2013.09.22 16:20:00 - [136] - Quote KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: Lurchasaurus wrote: In EVE a single capsuleer can manipulate a giant deathstar of galactic obliteration. ^ Debate Over ^ I think my combat engineered clone can handle driving a tracked vehicle while manning a single gun. Sorry, bad argument. You're trying use lore but your point about lore is wrong. Eve ships have crews of thousands. And also the podpilots are using special interface, which merc clones don't have, to control ships. How is it a bad argument? It is bad argument because saying lore is the reason, but lore itself points to other direction. A minor detail. BTW lore should not be taken into account in balancing the battlefield. Your idea of "balance" is making tanks completely useless.
Crash Monster Snipers Anonymous 1346	Posted - 2013.09.22 16:26:00 - [137] - Quote Hey, I have a thought... If you think tankers need to buddy up -- maybe infantry should have to buddy up big-time to be able to take out a tank. No more lone proto gunners being able to take out a tank. Turnabout is fair play isn't it? It's a tank for crying out loud. Let me say that again... IT'S A TANK!
KEROSIINI-TERO Seraphim Initiative.. 747	Posted - 2013.09.22 16:27:00 - [138] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: Tebu Gan wrote: NO I spend the money on the tank, I control it. Nuff said. Bad argument It would be the same if someone else had to deploy your equipment. You put the SP and ISK into it, so you should control it. You have bad ideas. That is such a narrow perspective. In single player shooters it makes sense not to rely on npc AI on your main offensive method, but chances are that dust is not being designed as a single player game. Getting a ton of ideas and suggestions is the way to invent something new and viable. Some of them are not good and viable, but some might be. That is the same in my case, as is everyone else's.
KEROSIINI-TERO Seraphim Initiative.. 747	Posted - 2013.09.22 16:29:00 - [139] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: Lurchasaurus wrote: In EVE a single capsuleer can manipulate a giant deathstar of galactic obliteration. ^ Debate Over ^ I think my combat engineered clone can handle driving a tracked vehicle while manning a single gun. Sorry, bad argument. You're trying use lore but your point about lore is wrong. Eve ships have crews of thousands. And also the podpilots are using special interface, which merc clones don't have, to control ships. How is it a bad argument? It is bad argument because saying lore is the reason, but lore itself points to other direction. A minor detail. BTW lore should not be taken into account in balancing the battlefield. Your idea of "balance" is making tanks completely useless. Tell me what my idea for tank balance is? Because I haven't stated it in theis thread. EDIT: Never mind, let's rather not take this to personal push-pull. Apologies.
R F Gyro Clones 4u 528	Posted - 2013.09.22 17:17:00 - [140] - Quote Crash Monster wrote: Hey, I have a thought... If you think tankers need to buddy up -- maybe infantry should have to buddy up big-time to be able to take out a tank. No more lone proto gunners being able to take out a tank. Turnabout is fair play isn't it? It's a tank for crying out loud. Let me say that again... IT'S A TANK! "Its a TANK" is an emotional appeal, not a valid game balance argument. I agree that lone proto gunners shouldn't be able to take out a tank, assuming a roughly equivalent level of player skill on both sides. Obviously an expert proto forge gunner should be able to solo someone who doesn't know how to effectively operate his tank.

R F Gyro Clones 4u 528	Posted - 2013.09.22 17:29:00 - [141] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: Well, I'll explain why this is a horrible idea, as well as counter your points: 1: I pay for the entire thing, so why should I give half of the purpose of it to a random bluedot? 2: I've not seen that many balancing around ISK, other than reduction in price for specific ones (such as the PROTO turrets that are almost a million), as they aren't balanced with the other's price. 3: Requiring more than 3 or 4 people to kill one HAV with PROTO weapons is imo overkill at that point. The HAV should be able to survive long enough to stay for a short period, and escape, and if they trap it, or have more than enough AV, it's dead. 4: Like I said, we already do require more than just the pilot for a HAV to do well. Backup AV, a Logistics or two and a LLV repping it and the people around it, and gunners keeping the infantry away (well, if they would fix the small turret aim on HAV's anyways), as well as a spotter to tell the said HAV where incoming AV is, and where infantry that needs to be hit is. 1. Of course you shouldn't give anything to blue dots. I absolutely support locking vehicles so that only members of your squad can get in them, unless hacked. 2. The "balancing on ISK" thing is a counter to the argument that tanks should be stronger because they cost more. I realise that at the moment they aren't balanced on ISK, but I think they should be. Top end AV infantry gear should be very expensive. 3. Yep, I agree. I'd balance around a 3 man AV team fighting a 3 man HAV crew. 4. That teamwork scenario you describe isn't a common one at all; by far the most common tank tactic is the lone wolf. Clearly they need to fix vehicle turret aim; you can't balance a game based on what are clearly bugs. One suggestion I made in another thread is that HAVs could still be operated solo as they are now, but would get extra bonuses (resists probably) for extra occupants. Also, I think the tank commander should be able to delegate driving/main gun use if they want to. Things can then be balanced separately for lone-wolf HAVs and team-operated HAVs.
MINA Longstrike abandon village General Tso's Alliance 1	Posted - 2013.09.23 07:58:00 - [142] - Quote Delta 749 wrote: Funny how all the tankers say they work as part of their team but any suggestions making their vehicle most effective with team work get shot down isnt it Anyway I bet you a dollar they would lock everyone out and just jump around every seat if your suggestions were ever implemented Tanks do work as part of a team. Tanks require boots on the ground to keep them informed and protected from potential AV threats, while the tank itself acts as a rallying point and heavy damage support for that infantry. Requiring you to 'rely' on two random idiots in your chassis to do anything isn't the kind of 'reliance' or 'support' a tank needs. If I'm in a match and I don't feel I can trust my teammates I don't call in a tank. If I can trust my teammates I can call in my tank and deny access to a null cannon and act as a rallying point for my team and a major distraction to the enemy team. If the enemy team tries to call in their own tank to fight mine and my team is doing well at eliminating their av, I can roll over their own tank and further destroy morale and confidence in their team.
Void Echo Morsus Mihi Aperuitque Imperium 1502	Posted - 2013.09.23 08:02:00 - [143] - Quote ......... LET THIS **** THREAD DIE ALREADY, NOTHING PRODUCTIVE HAS COME OUT OF IT.
ADAM-OF-EVE Svartur Bjorn Neo Terra Empire 331	Posted - 2013.09.23 16:05:00 - [144] - Quote i think it has shown us alot about what tankers are really like


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