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Gabriella Grey XERCORE E X T E R M I N A T U S 70	Posted - 2013.09.20 10:21:00 - [31] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: 1)driver drives and operates front turret and tanking modules 2)main gunner operates main turret and turret modules. 3)top gunner is exposed out of the top turret like on an lav. double tank ehp due to complexity of new tank controls. no more solo tanking. add in complete lock out on tanks by the owner. when he/she calls it in it is locked completely until he/she unlocks it for crew or it is hacked by the enemy. this allows them to select the position in the tank they want. they can also unlock for squad only or free for all. add in climbing in and out of vehicles to commit people to the tank crew and not just instant hitch a ride or hide. vehicle views would have to be tweaked slightly. driver would get a front view screen only which incorporates his /hers forward turret. main gunner would have full allround view as the tank driver currently gets while not in turret view. this comes at the expense of having your head out the top of the turret. when in turret mode you are no longer exposed but have only the turret zoom view. the top gunner is always exposed but has an extended view of the area around the tank. his turret would have a forward shield for shield tanks and an arm shield for arm tanks. he is completely protected from the direction his turret is facing.. the full crew makes the tank very effective when they work together. if 1 is taken out then this effectiveness is reduced. when the tank is in full combat mode then the top gunner is the general allround eyes. if he is taken out then its doen to the main gunner who is now at a reduced visual effectiveness. this basicly allows players to disable tanks without actually needing to destroy them I think a good portion of this is great stuff, especially that tanks are a support and team vehicle like all vehicles are meant to be. The only thing of significance that I have no complaint with CCP is on whether the gunner is exposed or not. There are several tanks that in current application do not expose those gunners, but I do hope when the vehicle update comes, these solo HAV users will be addressed or at least encouraged to operate with their squad/team. Even if they are operating solo within their vehicle.
Void Echo Morsus Mihi Aperuitque Imperium 1447	Posted - 2013.09.20 10:28:00 - [32] - Quote Gabriella Grey wrote: ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: 1)driver drives and operates front turret and tanking modules 2)main gunner operates main turret and turret modules. 3)top gunner is exposed out of the top turret like on an lav. double tank ehp due to complexity of new tank controls. no more solo tanking. add in complete lock out on tanks by the owner. when he/she calls it in it is locked completely until he/she unlocks it for crew or it is hacked by the enemy. this allows them to select the position in the tank they want. they can also unlock for squad only or free for all. add in climbing in and out of vehicles to commit people to the tank crew and not just instant hitch a ride or hide. vehicle views would have to be tweaked slightly. driver would get a front view screen only which incorporates his /hers forward turret. main gunner would have full allround view as the tank driver currently gets while not in turret view. this comes at the expense of having your head out the top of the turret. when in turret mode you are no longer exposed but have only the turret zoom view. the top gunner is always exposed but has an extended view of the area around the tank. his turret would have a forward shield for shield tanks and an arm shield for arm tanks. he is completely protected from the direction his turret is facing.. the full crew makes the tank very effective when they work together. if 1 is taken out then this effectiveness is reduced. when the tank is in full combat mode then the top gunner is the general allround eyes. if he is taken out then its doen to the main gunner who is now at a reduced visual effectiveness. this basicly allows players to disable tanks without actually needing to destroy them I think a good portion of this is great stuff, especially that tanks are a support and team vehicle like all vehicles are meant to be. The only thing of significance that I have no complaint with CCP is on whether the gunner is exposed or not. There are several tanks that in current application do not expose those gunners, but I do hope when the vehicle update comes, these solo HAV users will be addressed or at least encouraged to operate with their squad/team. Even if they are operating solo within their vehicle. we already do, its called squading with other tankers, not randoms. we get 1% increase to survivability and we actually get to work people who WE KNOW FOR A FACT will hunt down the enemy AV.
Void Echo Morsus Mihi Aperuitque Imperium 1447	Posted - 2013.09.20 10:31:00 - [33] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: sixteensixty4 wrote: ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: problem is tanks should have always been squad assets from the get go. biggest mistake CCP made was letting any tom,** and harry with delusions of grandeur buy and use them. this only made everyone who used them feel they should be able to kill everything solo because they spent all the sp and isk on them. until tankers get it out of their heads that a tank is for soloing then nothing ccp does is going to fix tanks and your only hurting your own profession by not accepting suggestions even offering constructive criticism on the bad suggestions. it all adds to the bigger picture. simply asking for hp buffs or av nerfs is not going to fix nothing because the core of the tank role is so messed up to start with If a fecking titan in eve uses all his own weapons and modules, then im pretty fecking sure my piddily little tank can also The support for a tank, is either, good gunners in the aux turrets, or YOU the ***** infantry, preferably both and regarding offering constructive criticism on your idea, maybe you would have got some, if you had just thought about it, come on, your idea is fecking stupid for reasons already mentioned you basicly just sh!t on anyone that doesnt role in a corp, or as i said already, maybe you wont have friends online when you are and as my post above this, you cant trust random blues to main the turrets when 90% of them just want troll you you are the perfect example of why tanks will never be fixed. me,me,me,me,me. and hostility towards any change that is not a buff a pod pilot is nothing like a dust merc. a pod pilot is wired directly into his craft. a merc just drives it with his arms and legs. absolutely no comparison there. also you have it wrong. the tank is there to support the troops on the ground who actually capture stuff to win the fight. not the other way round. another delusion of the tank driver you gave no reasons until now why it was bad, oh yes you did, what was it, i cant solo tank with your idea. more me,me,me as for people not being online to man your vehicle. well congratulations you found a flaw and gave constructive criticism on it. gold star to this guy. we are making progress. well, he is making progress, your not. tankers are not the problem here, the nonexistent balance due to infantry crying all the damn time is the problem. we do support the team, when we kill the enemy vehicles and infantry, we keep the field open enough for YOU TO GO IN AND HACK THE OBJECTIVE. but alas there are rarely any competent infantry that get the message.
ladwar Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 1658	Posted - 2013.09.20 10:32:00 - [34] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Void Echo wrote: ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: 1)driver drives and operates front turret and tanking modules 2)main gunner operates main turret and turret modules. 3)top gunner is exposed out of the top turret like on an lav. double tank ehp due to complexity of new tank controls. no more solo tanking. add in complete lock out on tanks by the owner. when he/she calls it in it is locked completely until he/she unlocks it for crew or it is hacked by the enemy. this allows them to select the position in the tank they want. they can also unlock for squad only or free for all. add in climbing in and out of vehicles to commit people to the tank crew and not just instant hitch a ride or hide. vehicle views would have to be tweaked slightly. driver would get a front view screen only which incorporates his /hers forward turret. main gunner would have full allround view as the tank driver currently gets while not in turret view. this comes at the expense of having your head out the top of the turret. when in turret mode you are no longer exposed but have only the turret zoom view. the top gunner is always exposed but has an extended view of the area around the tank. his turret would have a forward shield for shield tanks and an arm shield for arm tanks. he is completely protected from the direction his turret is facing.. the full crew makes the tank very effective when they work together. if 1 is taken out then this effectiveness is reduced. when the tank is in full combat mode then the top gunner is the general allround eyes. if he is taken out then its doen to the main gunner who is now at a reduced visual effectiveness. this basicly allows players to disable tanks without actually needing to destroy them 1. no 2. no 3. no 4. no 5. no 6. no everything else.... hmm let me think.. ah, no dude I don't want t have to look for 3 dedicated and good players just to drive a ******* vehicle. 2 and well the top gunner is needed. to be honest this would only work with squad locking which we don't and have and still might not even come in 1.6. look at PS2 with the harassers, works just fine, but that also have great cost vs worth in vehicles, something we don't have in dust. their vehicle cost make sense for their game, our is just random number thrown together.
Void Echo Morsus Mihi Aperuitque Imperium 1447	Posted - 2013.09.20 10:35:00 - [35] - Quote ladwar wrote: True Adamance wrote: Void Echo wrote: ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: 1)driver drives and operates front turret and tanking modules 2)main gunner operates main turret and turret modules. 3)top gunner is exposed out of the top turret like on an lav. double tank ehp due to complexity of new tank controls. no more solo tanking. add in complete lock out on tanks by the owner. when he/she calls it in it is locked completely until he/she unlocks it for crew or it is hacked by the enemy. this allows them to select the position in the tank they want. they can also unlock for squad only or free for all. add in climbing in and out of vehicles to commit people to the tank crew and not just instant hitch a ride or hide. vehicle views would have to be tweaked slightly. driver would get a front view screen only which incorporates his /hers forward turret. main gunner would have full allround view as the tank driver currently gets while not in turret view. this comes at the expense of having your head out the top of the turret. when in turret mode you are no longer exposed but have only the turret zoom view. the top gunner is always exposed but has an extended view of the area around the tank. his turret would have a forward shield for shield tanks and an arm shield for arm tanks. he is completely protected from the direction his turret is facing.. the full crew makes the tank very effective when they work together. if 1 is taken out then this effectiveness is reduced. when the tank is in full combat mode then the top gunner is the general allround eyes. if he is taken out then its doen to the main gunner who is now at a reduced visual effectiveness. this basicly allows players to disable tanks without actually needing to destroy them 1. no 2. no 3. no 4. no 5. no 6. no everything else.... hmm let me think.. ah, no dude I don't want t have to look for 3 dedicated and good players just to drive a ******* vehicle. 2 and well the top gunner is needed. to be honest this would only work with squad locking which we don't and have and still might not even come in 1.6. look at PS2 with the harassers, works just fine, but that also have great cost vs worth in vehicles, something we don't have in dust. their vehicle cost make sense for their game, our is just random number thrown together. to many tankers, this would only work if they remove tanks from being personal investments A.K.A no SP or ISK at all into tanks, then it would be acceptable to make them like BF.
ADAM-OF-EVE Svartur Bjorn Neo Terra Empire 301	Posted - 2013.09.20 10:51:00 - [36] - Quote Void Echo wrote: ladwar wrote: True Adamance wrote: Void Echo wrote: ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: 1)driver drives and operates front turret and tanking modules 2)main gunner operates main turret and turret modules. 3)top gunner is exposed out of the top turret like on an lav. double tank ehp due to complexity of new tank controls. no more solo tanking. add in complete lock out on tanks by the owner. when he/she calls it in it is locked completely until he/she unlocks it for crew or it is hacked by the enemy. this allows them to select the position in the tank they want. they can also unlock for squad only or free for all. add in climbing in and out of vehicles to commit people to the tank crew and not just instant hitch a ride or hide. vehicle views would have to be tweaked slightly. driver would get a front view screen only which incorporates his /hers forward turret. main gunner would have full allround view as the tank driver currently gets while not in turret view. this comes at the expense of having your head out the top of the turret. when in turret mode you are no longer exposed but have only the turret zoom view. the top gunner is always exposed but has an extended view of the area around the tank. his turret would have a forward shield for shield tanks and an arm shield for arm tanks. he is completely protected from the direction his turret is facing.. the full crew makes the tank very effective when they work together. if 1 is taken out then this effectiveness is reduced. when the tank is in full combat mode then the top gunner is the general allround eyes. if he is taken out then its doen to the main gunner who is now at a reduced visual effectiveness. this basicly allows players to disable tanks without actually needing to destroy them 1. no 2. no 3. no 4. no 5. no 6. no everything else.... hmm let me think.. ah, no dude I don't want t have to look for 3 dedicated and good players just to drive a ******* vehicle. 2 and well the top gunner is needed. to be honest this would only work with squad locking which we don't and have and still might not even come in 1.6. look at PS2 with the harassers, works just fine, but that also have great cost vs worth in vehicles, something we don't have in dust. their vehicle cost make sense for their game, our is just random number thrown together. to many tankers, this would only work if they remove tanks from being personal investments A.K.A no SP or ISK at all into tanks, then it would be acceptable to make them like BF. tanks for WP claim an orbital or claim a tank
Void Echo Morsus Mihi Aperuitque Imperium 1447	Posted - 2013.09.20 10:54:00 - [37] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: [tanks for WP how about ISK, you still cant buy anything with WP, all they are good for are orbital strikes. but still your post is flawed in so many ways... and to top that you even admitted that you want tanks removed from the game (you may have not meant it (no you meant it)), and now your one of the biggest enemies we face as we are trying to achieve balance. after I make this post, this thread will probably be locked for trolling or il just stop posting on this nonsense and let you non-tankers decide the fate of tankers for the 92nd time.
ladwar Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 1658	Posted - 2013.09.20 10:55:00 - [38] - Quote Void Echo wrote: to many tankers, this would only work if they remove tanks from being personal investments A.K.A no SP or ISK at all into tanks, then it would be acceptable to make them like BF. just saying between the broken reward system, the imbalance of ISK and counters balance. its no wonder why tankers are pissed. they are using similar to PS2 TTK for AV vs vehicles without using the same cost vs worth. where as cost is low and is gained passively in PS2 and in dust cost is high and gained by playing which, unless you AFK matches, means by actively playing and takes much long then in PS2. its simple, if it cost a lot it better have a lot of worth and vehicles simply don't have that much worth to them. turrets more then anything is just insanely wrong cost to them. who ever did the price marketing on dust failed, hardcore.
ADAM-OF-EVE Svartur Bjorn Neo Terra Empire 301	Posted - 2013.09.20 11:04:00 - [39] - Quote Void Echo wrote: ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: [tanks for WP how about ISK, you still cant buy anything with WP, all they are good for are orbital strikes. but still your post is flawed in so many ways... and to top that you even admitted that you want tanks removed from the game (you may have not meant it (no you meant it)), and now your one of the biggest enemies we face as we are trying to achieve balance. after I make this post, this thread will probably be locked for trolling or il just stop posting on this nonsense and let you non-tankers decide the fate of tankers for the 92nd time. you buy an orbital with wp so why not a squad based tank if you have the squad members to use it. you state my suggestion is flawed in many ways but none of you have stated why, plenty of no's and zero reasons why. no i dont want tanks removed but if tank users are unwilling to compromise then they have no purpose in dust you are asking that tank users have the only say on balance to tanks when any buff to tanks is a nerf to all infantry to which there are more of us than you. as for trolling. i made a legitimate suggestion. it is you few unwilling to take any suggestions or work on them to come up with a better idea who are trolling.
Racro 01 Arifistan The Surrogates Of War 48	Posted - 2013.09.20 11:31:00 - [40] - Quote worst idea ever...... your idea = simply remove any form of tank driving form the game.

KEROSIINI-TERO Seraphim Initiative.. 744	Posted - 2013.09.20 13:28:00 - [41] - Quote Currently tanks are more or less just oversized clumsy dropsuits mounting somewhat more firepower. I speak for all tanker, AV and normal infantry point of views.
Spycrab Potato Hold-Your-Fire 481	Posted - 2013.09.20 13:41:00 - [42] - Quote Why would I let a blueberry control my modules? No thanks.
KEROSIINI-TERO Seraphim Initiative.. 744	Posted - 2013.09.20 13:42:00 - [43] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: 1)driver drives and operates front turret and tanking modules 2)main gunner operates main turret and turret modules. 3)top gunner is exposed out of the top turret like on an lav. double tank ehp due to complexity of new tank controls. no more solo tanking. add in complete lock out on tanks by the owner. when he/she calls it in it is locked completely until he/she unlocks it for crew or it is hacked by the enemy. this allows them to select the position in the tank they want. they can also unlock for squad only or free for all. add in climbing in and out of vehicles to commit people to the tank crew and not just instant hitch a ride or hide. vehicle views would have to be tweaked slightly. driver would get a front view screen only which incorporates his /hers forward turret. main gunner would have full allround view as the tank driver currently gets while not in turret view. this comes at the expense of having your head out the top of the turret. when in turret mode you are no longer exposed but have only the turret zoom view. the top gunner is always exposed but has an extended view of the area around the tank. his turret would have a forward shield for shield tanks and an arm shield for arm tanks. he is completely protected from the direction his turret is facing.. the full crew makes the tank very effective when they work together. if 1 is taken out then this effectiveness is reduced. when the tank is in full combat mode then the top gunner is the general allround eyes. if he is taken out then its doen to the main gunner who is now at a reduced visual effectiveness. this basicly allows players to disable tanks without actually needing to destroy them I actually like this. Promotes co-op. This way tanks could be made more 'tankier', powerful that is, as there would be a clear and distinct price for having that (commitment by multiple people). Now what I don't like about your suggestion, is the innuendo about HAV driver able to see only forward. That is... Terrible, as there is no rear view mirror.
Sgt Buttscratch SLAPHAPPY BANDITS 783	Posted - 2013.09.20 14:15:00 - [44] - Quote So let me get this straight... Build a tank for 800k-3kk, then drive it and operate a turret with only 180 degree's POV, then allow some absolute scrub to get all the fun using the main turret that costs anyhere from 100k-1kk...NO [font size=******* HUGE]NO[/font] Thats as bad as the idea tank pilots should only get to drive, all turrets have additional gunners. Absurd. Tanker skills in ISK's in, everyone else reaps benefit, tank owner has to restock when fail gunners get ya killed. How about this: Tank owner(the guy who skilled in purchased and built tank) drives the tank with full operation of top turret, small turrets are not only optional but are lockable to no-one/team/squad.
Avallo Kantor Paladin Survey Force Amarr Empire 177	Posted - 2013.09.20 14:19:00 - [45] - Quote The problem with multi-occupant vehicles when the basic function of a vehicle requires 2+ is that only a -single- person buys the item. Multi-occupant vehicles, where each occupant operates a critical system would only work in pre-made squads and corps. At which point, an organized group could still get more punch from dropping multiple single person tanks. Instead of changing a vehicle to this pattern, if you are set on having it, I'd suggest trying to include it as a separate vehicle sub-type, and giving them some specific role, like siege emplacements, or mobile fortresses.
ADAM-OF-EVE Svartur Bjorn Neo Terra Empire 301	Posted - 2013.09.20 15:04:00 - [46] - Quote Sgt Buttscratch wrote: So let me get this straight... Build a tank for 800k-3kk, then drive it and operate a turret with only 180 degree's POV, then allow some absolute scrub to get all the fun using the main turret that costs anyhere from 100k-1kk...NO [font size=******* HUGE]NO[/font] Thats as bad as the idea tank pilots should only get to drive, all turrets have additional gunners. Absurd. Tanker skills in ISK's in, everyone else reaps benefit, tank owner has to restock when fail gunners get ya killed. How about this: Tank owner(the guy who skilled in purchased and built tank) drives the tank with full operation of top turret, small turrets are not only optional but are lockable to no-one/team/squad. my idea is a complete revamp of tanks so nothing that we have currently has any relevance to it, isk price, who owns it and what seat they get, what skills they have spent all their sp on. it has no relevance at this moment in time. its a basic idea so the argument i bought it and skilled into it so its all mine is irrelevent. its not just yours in my idea. its a squad asset. the owner could be the top gunner if that was his/ her prefered position although its unlikely but its still a choice. as for who buys it. you, corp,squad,team, a friend, borrow or steal it. as for sp well you no longer need 20-30 mil sp to be any good. you only need sp for the seat you prefer to take.
Tebu Gan CrimeWave Syndicate 96	Posted - 2013.09.20 15:06:00 - [47] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: 1)driver drives and operates front turret and tanking modules 2)main gunner operates main turret and turret modules. 3)top gunner is exposed out of the top turret like on an lav. double tank ehp due to complexity of new tank controls. no more solo tanking. add in complete lock out on tanks by the owner. when he/she calls it in it is locked completely until he/she unlocks it for crew or it is hacked by the enemy. this allows them to select the position in the tank they want. they can also unlock for squad only or free for all. add in climbing in and out of vehicles to commit people to the tank crew and not just instant hitch a ride or hide. vehicle views would have to be tweaked slightly. driver would get a front view screen only which incorporates his /hers forward turret. main gunner would have full allround view as the tank driver currently gets while not in turret view. this comes at the expense of having your head out the top of the turret. when in turret mode you are no longer exposed but have only the turret zoom view. the top gunner is always exposed but has an extended view of the area around the tank. his turret would have a forward shield for shield tanks and an arm shield for arm tanks. he is completely protected from the direction his turret is facing.. the full crew makes the tank very effective when they work together. if 1 is taken out then this effectiveness is reduced. when the tank is in full combat mode then the top gunner is the general allround eyes. if he is taken out then its doen to the main gunner who is now at a reduced visual effectiveness. this basicly allows players to disable tanks without actually needing to destroy them NO I spend the money on the tank, I control it. Nuff said.
ADAM-OF-EVE Svartur Bjorn Neo Terra Empire 301	Posted - 2013.09.20 15:11:00 - [48] - Quote Tebu Gan wrote: ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: 1)driver drives and operates front turret and tanking modules 2)main gunner operates main turret and turret modules. 3)top gunner is exposed out of the top turret like on an lav. double tank ehp due to complexity of new tank controls. no more solo tanking. add in complete lock out on tanks by the owner. when he/she calls it in it is locked completely until he/she unlocks it for crew or it is hacked by the enemy. this allows them to select the position in the tank they want. they can also unlock for squad only or free for all. add in climbing in and out of vehicles to commit people to the tank crew and not just instant hitch a ride or hide. vehicle views would have to be tweaked slightly. driver would get a front view screen only which incorporates his /hers forward turret. main gunner would have full allround view as the tank driver currently gets while not in turret view. this comes at the expense of having your head out the top of the turret. when in turret mode you are no longer exposed but have only the turret zoom view. the top gunner is always exposed but has an extended view of the area around the tank. his turret would have a forward shield for shield tanks and an arm shield for arm tanks. he is completely protected from the direction his turret is facing.. the full crew makes the tank very effective when they work together. if 1 is taken out then this effectiveness is reduced. when the tank is in full combat mode then the top gunner is the general allround eyes. if he is taken out then its doen to the main gunner who is now at a reduced visual effectiveness. this basicly allows players to disable tanks without actually needing to destroy them NO I spend the money on the tank, I control it. Nuff said. why should you spend the money on the tank, or the sp investment if its designed for squad use. in its current state its design makes it a solo weapon of mass destruction with a high cost in both skill and isk to limit its use. my suggestion is for it not to be solo. so not your responsibility to fund or skill into unless you want too. 3 crew is a cost split 3 ways both in isk required to kit out and also in sp required to operate.
Sgt Kirk SyNergy Gaming EoN. 1875	Posted - 2013.09.20 15:12:00 - [49] - Quote Change them to Go-Karts
The Attorney General ZionTCD 1004	Posted - 2013.09.20 15:21:00 - [50] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: my idea is a complete revamp of tanks so nothing that we have currently has any relevance to it, isk price, who owns it and what seat they get, what skills they have spent all their sp on. it has no relevance at this moment in time. its a basic idea so the argument i bought it and skilled into it so its all mine is irrelevent. its not just yours in my idea. its a squad asset. the owner could be the top gunner if that was his/ her prefered position although its unlikely but its still a choice. as for who buys it. you, corp,squad,team, a friend, borrow or steal it. as for sp well you no longer need 20-30 mil sp to be any good. you only need sp for the seat you prefer to take. Someone needs to skill into the chassis. Someone needs to skill into the main turret. If the person who skills into the chassis is the driver, he would never skill into turrets that he won't be using. If the person who skills into the chassis also has to skill into the turret, he is investing SP for someone else to use something, which is ridiculous. And yes, whomever is calling it in has to skill into the whole vehicle, which he can't use, because that is how the fitting system works. Your idea is bad, but instead of giving it up you are going to try and keep acting like it is a good idea. Also, you don't need 20 million SP to be good in tanks. You cna make very servicable fits for less than 6, can roll PC if you choose your skills wisely at 7, and be fit maxxed for one type of tank at around 8.5-9.5. So I'll support this type of BS as long as: Heavies need a Logi to spawn in their HMG for them. Only Logis can equip nanohives. All infantry must get their grenades from a nanaohive, as they spawn with zero. All infantry spawn with half of their current ammo, to promote teamwork. All infantry are limited by the meta level of what their squad leader spawns in. He goes MLT, you do to. Because if you want to promote teamwork, lets do it with infantry as well. Because as long as an Assault troop with a Duvolle and AV nades is an omni threat, then we can't be trying to force teamwork on other parts of the game. All of this is completely irrelevant because tanking is already highly team oriented if you want to survive. You can't ignore the infantry with you, because if they pull back and you decide to hang out and try and get more kills, you are getting blown up pretty fast.

loumanchew Ametat Security Amarr Empire 142	Posted - 2013.09.20 15:25:00 - [51] - Quote Just reduce drastically the effective range of tanks and AV as well as the damage output/input so that we can have big fat encounters while removing the redlining pussying which reigns supreme in this game. Finally the game might actually look like the promo and be less like '' I wonder how long it will take this time before I get 2 shotted by a turret or redlining tank which risks nothing to rip me off of my million $ flying goose!?''
ADAM-OF-EVE Svartur Bjorn Neo Terra Empire 301	Posted - 2013.09.20 15:35:00 - [52] - Quote The Attorney General wrote: ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: my idea is a complete revamp of tanks so nothing that we have currently has any relevance to it, isk price, who owns it and what seat they get, what skills they have spent all their sp on. it has no relevance at this moment in time. its a basic idea so the argument i bought it and skilled into it so its all mine is irrelevent. its not just yours in my idea. its a squad asset. the owner could be the top gunner if that was his/ her prefered position although its unlikely but its still a choice. as for who buys it. you, corp,squad,team, a friend, borrow or steal it. as for sp well you no longer need 20-30 mil sp to be any good. you only need sp for the seat you prefer to take. Someone needs to skill into the chassis. Someone needs to skill into the main turret. If the person who skills into the chassis is the driver, he would never skill into turrets that he won't be using. If the person who skills into the chassis also has to skill into the turret, he is investing SP for someone else to use something, which is ridiculous. And yes, whomever is calling it in has to skill into the whole vehicle, which he can't use, because that is how the fitting system works. Your idea is bad, but instead of giving it up you are going to try and keep acting like it is a good idea. Also, you don't need 20 million SP to be good in tanks. You cna make very servicable fits for less than 6, can roll PC if you choose your skills wisely at 7, and be fit maxxed for one type of tank at around 8.5-9.5. So I'll support this type of BS as long as: Heavies need a Logi to spawn in their HMG for them. Only Logis can equip nanohives. All infantry must get their grenades from a nanaohive, as they spawn with zero. All infantry spawn with half of their current ammo, to promote teamwork. All infantry are limited by the meta level of what their squad leader spawns in. He goes MLT, you do to. Because if you want to promote teamwork, lets do it with infantry as well. Because as long as an Assault troop with a Duvolle and AV nades is an omni threat, then we can't be trying to force teamwork on other parts of the game. All of this is completely irrelevant because tanking is already highly team oriented if you want to survive. You can't ignore the infantry with you, because if they pull back and you decide to hang out and try and get more kills, you are getting blown up pretty fast. did i say someone had to skill into the chassis, did i say someone had to skill into the turrets, i did say they are only responsible for their own space in the tank. specialise or jack of all trades it thats upto the individual crew member. calling in the vehicle. why would anyone have to be skilled into it. on the current system they would have too but this is not in the current system its an idea and things could be changed so it could be implemented. like i said use it as a squad asset. orbitals are squad assets so they could easy be called in via a system like that.
Flix Keptick Red Star. EoN. 75	Posted - 2013.09.20 15:53:00 - [53] - Quote No... just no...
KEROSIINI-TERO Seraphim Initiative.. 745	Posted - 2013.09.20 16:48:00 - [54] - Quote Sgt Buttscratch wrote: So let me get this straight... Build a tank for 800k-3kk, then drive it and operate a turret with only 180 degree's POV, then allow some absolute scrub to get all the fun using the main turret that costs anyhere from 100k-1kk...NO [font size=******* HUGE]NO[/font] Thats as bad as the idea tank pilots should only get to drive, all turrets have additional gunners. Absurd. Tanker skills in ISK's in, everyone else reaps benefit, tank owner has to restock when fail gunners get ya killed. How about this: Tank owner(the guy who skilled in purchased and built tank) drives the tank with full operation of top turret, small turrets are not only optional but are lockable to no-one/team/squad. Perhaps don't bring tank in pubs then. Look something else for solo pwn suit.
KEROSIINI-TERO Seraphim Initiative.. 745	Posted - 2013.09.20 16:51:00 - [55] - Quote Well perhaps solo operated tanks could be smaller ones, like scout tanks? And multi operated be the toughest heavy tanks?
ADAM-OF-EVE Svartur Bjorn Neo Terra Empire 302	Posted - 2013.09.20 17:07:00 - [56] - Quote KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: Well perhaps solo operated tanks could be smaller ones, like scout tanks? And multi operated be the toughest heavy tanks? reconnaissance tanks for solo purposes fast with medium tanking and dps to match their size and roll. MBT's 3 man crew with high dps,high ehp, slow that might work. people could do their public solo but when needed they could crew up and roll an mbt
Void Echo Morsus Mihi Aperuitque Imperium 1458	Posted - 2013.09.20 17:32:00 - [57] - Quote funny how 99% of your support is people who never skilled into tanks including you... shows how much your idea is loved by the people its intended for. (I know I said I wouldn't talk here anymore, but I had to bring that up)
Foundation Seldon Gespenster Kompanie Villore Accords 108	Posted - 2013.09.20 17:57:00 - [58] - Quote You're not going to find much support among other tankers to incorporate the ideas that you've listed but, for the sake of discussion, I'll try to help you understand why your ideas are awful and how you can make them more palatable to tankers. - You've made Tanks simultaneously more reliant on Teamwork while making that Teamwork laughably easy to cripple with vulnerable gunners. You're not making the tank any more powerful by creating a situation where any infantry in a 200 meter radius can tag your gunners because their heads are poking out of the tank. Vulnerable gunners work on Dropships and LAVs because both of these vehicles are FAST and can react to enemy fire and escape from it effectively. Tanks don't have this advantage, there's a level of commitment that's involved in driving to any place where there's a decent amount of infantry gathered. Any tank that would walk up into an area where the enemy is active would immediately have their gunners taken out and the tank would be crippled after its first engagement. - The camera idea is horrible. This relates back to the fact that your gunners are vulnerable but beyond that tanks are cumbersome, have very slow acceleration, and often get caught on a map's various terrain. Removing the driver's ability to actually effectively drive without the people in your tank relaying information about your position just makes for a very convoluted setup and it's compounded by the fact that any random infantry can go up and shoot the one guy who has the 360 degree view of where you're going in the face at any time. This model of the tank camera you're presenting would require a huge amount of communication and would all but eliminate the notion of tank use outside of squad play where everyone has a mic. Bad. Very bad. So if you want anyone here to support anything that you're saying at all you'll probably need to make these changes : Remove notion of vulnerable gunners Let the driver be able to drive, ie. Don't change the camera for the driver. Significantly reduce SP investment needed for Tank play as a result of requiring teamwork to get the most out of it.
ABadMutha13 Nihil-Obstat Mercs General Tso's Alliance 19	Posted - 2013.09.20 17:59:00 - [59] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: 1)driver drives and operates front turret and tanking modules 2)main gunner operates main turret and turret modules. 3)top gunner is exposed out of the top turret like on an lav. double tank ehp due to complexity of new tank controls. no more solo tanking. add in complete lock out on tanks by the owner. when he/she calls it in it is locked completely until he/she unlocks it for crew or it is hacked by the enemy. this allows them to select the position in the tank they want. they can also unlock for squad only or free for all. add in climbing in and out of vehicles to commit people to the tank crew and not just instant hitch a ride or hide. vehicle views would have to be tweaked slightly. driver would get a front view screen only which incorporates his /hers forward turret. main gunner would have full allround view as the tank driver currently gets while not in turret view. this comes at the expense of having your head out the top of the turret. when in turret mode you are no longer exposed but have only the turret zoom view. the top gunner is always exposed but has an extended view of the area around the tank. his turret would have a forward shield for shield tanks and an arm shield for arm tanks. he is completely protected from the direction his turret is facing.. the full crew makes the tank very effective when they work together. if 1 is taken out then this effectiveness is reduced. when the tank is in full combat mode then the top gunner is the general allround eyes. if he is taken out then its doen to the main gunner who is now at a reduced visual effectiveness. this basicly allows players to disable tanks without actually needing to destroy them TL;DR I just scanned to see if you said: "Make tanks Unicorns"
The Attorney General ZionTCD 1011	Posted - 2013.09.20 20:24:00 - [60] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: did i say someone had to skill into the chassis, did i say someone had to skill into the turrets, i did say they are only responsible for their own space in the tank. specialise or jack of all trades it thats upto the individual crew member. calling in the vehicle. why would anyone have to be skilled into it. on the current system they would have too but this is not in the current system its an idea and things could be changed so it could be implemented. like i said use it as a squad asset. orbitals are squad assets so they could easy be called in via a system like that. also who is to say ccp couldn't come up with an option to fit your own part of the tank in vehicle fittings so just a chassis or just a turret with their own pq/cpu etc. the chassis pilot could call in the vehicle and it then is asked by the system which gunner he is using. he selects the main gunner and the main gunner gets a message to accept. once accepted the vehicle comes in with the completed vehicle with one persons chassis and the others turret So you want CCP to change the entire skill system so that you don't get hurt by tanks? OK, whatever. You obviously have not thought this through, and are just clutching at straws. Oddly enough, you never respond to my counter proposals for infantry restrictions, most likely because you don't think infantry should have any restrictions, which makes your entire argument moot.



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