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ADAM-OF-EVE Svartur Bjorn Neo Terra Empire 298	Posted - 2013.09.19 21:02:00 - [1] - Quote 1)driver drives and operates front turret and tanking modules 2)main gunner operates main turret and turret modules. 3)top gunner is exposed out of the top turret like on an lav. double tank ehp due to complexity of new tank controls. no more solo tanking. add in complete lock out on tanks by the owner. when he/she calls it in it is locked completely until he/she unlocks it for crew or it is hacked by the enemy. this allows them to select the position in the tank they want. they can also unlock for squad only or free for all. add in climbing in and out of vehicles to commit people to the tank crew and not just instant hitch a ride or hide. vehicle views would have to be tweaked slightly. driver would get a front view screen only which incorporates his /hers forward turret. main gunner would have full allround view as the tank driver currently gets while not in turret view. this comes at the expense of having your head out the top of the turret. when in turret mode you are no longer exposed but have only the turret zoom view. the top gunner is always exposed but has an extended view of the area around the tank. his turret would have a forward shield for shield tanks and an arm shield for arm tanks. he is completely protected from the direction his turret is facing.. the full crew makes the tank very effective when they work together. if 1 is taken out then this effectiveness is reduced. when the tank is in full combat mode then the top gunner is the general allround eyes. if he is taken out then its doen to the main gunner who is now at a reduced visual effectiveness. this basicly allows players to disable tanks without actually needing to destroy them
ADAM-OF-EVE Svartur Bjorn Neo Terra Empire 298	Posted - 2013.09.19 21:08:00 - [2] - Quote sixteensixty4 wrote: So what about lone wolf tankers... They just dont get to tank anymore, or only have the small turret? oh and not forgetting we now cant look behind us.... you didnt really think this through now did you? actually i did, although i have an idea on this so give me a few mins to amend
ADAM-OF-EVE Svartur Bjorn Neo Terra Empire 298	Posted - 2013.09.19 21:16:00 - [3] - Quote so much hostility. even mention "change" and "tank" in the same sentence and tank drivers lose it lol. there is a reason why there will always be issues with tanks and its nothing to do with the tanks themselves
ADAM-OF-EVE Svartur Bjorn Neo Terra Empire 299	Posted - 2013.09.19 21:43:00 - [4] - Quote problem is tanks should have always been squad assets from the get go. biggest mistake CCP made was letting any tom,**** and harry with delusions of grandeur buy and use them. this only made everyone who used them feel they should be able to kill everything solo because they spent all the sp and isk on them. until tankers get it out of their heads that a tank is for soloing then nothing ccp does is going to fix tanks and your only hurting your own profession by not accepting suggestions even offering constructive criticism on the bad suggestions. it all adds to the bigger picture. simply asking for hp buffs or av nerfs is not going to fix nothing because the core of the tank role is so messed up to start with
ADAM-OF-EVE Svartur Bjorn Neo Terra Empire 299	Posted - 2013.09.19 22:12:00 - [5] - Quote sixteensixty4 wrote: ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: problem is tanks should have always been squad assets from the get go. biggest mistake CCP made was letting any tom,** and harry with delusions of grandeur buy and use them. this only made everyone who used them feel they should be able to kill everything solo because they spent all the sp and isk on them. until tankers get it out of their heads that a tank is for soloing then nothing ccp does is going to fix tanks and your only hurting your own profession by not accepting suggestions even offering constructive criticism on the bad suggestions. it all adds to the bigger picture. simply asking for hp buffs or av nerfs is not going to fix nothing because the core of the tank role is so messed up to start with If a fecking titan in eve uses all his own weapons and modules, then im pretty fecking sure my piddily little tank can also The support for a tank, is either, good gunners in the aux turrets, or YOU the ***** infantry, preferably both and regarding offering constructive criticism on your idea, maybe you would have got some, if you had just thought about it, come on, your idea is fecking stupid for reasons already mentioned you basicly just sh!t on anyone that doesnt role in a corp, or as i said already, maybe you wont have friends online when you are and as my post above this, you cant trust random blues to main the turrets when 90% of them just want troll you you are the perfect example of why tanks will never be fixed. me,me,me,me,me. and hostility towards any change that is not a buff a pod pilot is nothing like a dust merc. a pod pilot is wired directly into his craft. a merc just drives it with his arms and legs. absolutely no comparison there. also you have it wrong. the tank is there to support the troops on the ground who actually capture stuff to win the fight. not the other way round. another delusion of the tank driver you gave no reasons until now why it was bad, oh yes you did, what was it, i cant solo tank with your idea. more me,me,me as for people not being online to man your vehicle. well congratulations you found a flaw and gave constructive criticism on it. gold star to this guy. we are making progress.
ADAM-OF-EVE Svartur Bjorn Neo Terra Empire 301	Posted - 2013.09.20 10:51:00 - [6] - Quote Void Echo wrote: ladwar wrote: True Adamance wrote: Void Echo wrote: ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: 1)driver drives and operates front turret and tanking modules 2)main gunner operates main turret and turret modules. 3)top gunner is exposed out of the top turret like on an lav. double tank ehp due to complexity of new tank controls. no more solo tanking. add in complete lock out on tanks by the owner. when he/she calls it in it is locked completely until he/she unlocks it for crew or it is hacked by the enemy. this allows them to select the position in the tank they want. they can also unlock for squad only or free for all. add in climbing in and out of vehicles to commit people to the tank crew and not just instant hitch a ride or hide. vehicle views would have to be tweaked slightly. driver would get a front view screen only which incorporates his /hers forward turret. main gunner would have full allround view as the tank driver currently gets while not in turret view. this comes at the expense of having your head out the top of the turret. when in turret mode you are no longer exposed but have only the turret zoom view. the top gunner is always exposed but has an extended view of the area around the tank. his turret would have a forward shield for shield tanks and an arm shield for arm tanks. he is completely protected from the direction his turret is facing.. the full crew makes the tank very effective when they work together. if 1 is taken out then this effectiveness is reduced. when the tank is in full combat mode then the top gunner is the general allround eyes. if he is taken out then its doen to the main gunner who is now at a reduced visual effectiveness. this basicly allows players to disable tanks without actually needing to destroy them 1. no 2. no 3. no 4. no 5. no 6. no everything else.... hmm let me think.. ah, no dude I don't want t have to look for 3 dedicated and good players just to drive a ******* vehicle. 2 and well the top gunner is needed. to be honest this would only work with squad locking which we don't and have and still might not even come in 1.6. look at PS2 with the harassers, works just fine, but that also have great cost vs worth in vehicles, something we don't have in dust. their vehicle cost make sense for their game, our is just random number thrown together. to many tankers, this would only work if they remove tanks from being personal investments A.K.A no SP or ISK at all into tanks, then it would be acceptable to make them like BF. tanks for WP claim an orbital or claim a tank
ADAM-OF-EVE Svartur Bjorn Neo Terra Empire 301	Posted - 2013.09.20 11:04:00 - [7] - Quote Void Echo wrote: ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: [tanks for WP how about ISK, you still cant buy anything with WP, all they are good for are orbital strikes. but still your post is flawed in so many ways... and to top that you even admitted that you want tanks removed from the game (you may have not meant it (no you meant it)), and now your one of the biggest enemies we face as we are trying to achieve balance. after I make this post, this thread will probably be locked for trolling or il just stop posting on this nonsense and let you non-tankers decide the fate of tankers for the 92nd time. you buy an orbital with wp so why not a squad based tank if you have the squad members to use it. you state my suggestion is flawed in many ways but none of you have stated why, plenty of no's and zero reasons why. no i dont want tanks removed but if tank users are unwilling to compromise then they have no purpose in dust you are asking that tank users have the only say on balance to tanks when any buff to tanks is a nerf to all infantry to which there are more of us than you. as for trolling. i made a legitimate suggestion. it is you few unwilling to take any suggestions or work on them to come up with a better idea who are trolling.
ADAM-OF-EVE Svartur Bjorn Neo Terra Empire 301	Posted - 2013.09.20 15:04:00 - [8] - Quote Sgt Buttscratch wrote: So let me get this straight... Build a tank for 800k-3kk, then drive it and operate a turret with only 180 degree's POV, then allow some absolute scrub to get all the fun using the main turret that costs anyhere from 100k-1kk...NO [font size=******* HUGE]NO[/font] Thats as bad as the idea tank pilots should only get to drive, all turrets have additional gunners. Absurd. Tanker skills in ISK's in, everyone else reaps benefit, tank owner has to restock when fail gunners get ya killed. How about this: Tank owner(the guy who skilled in purchased and built tank) drives the tank with full operation of top turret, small turrets are not only optional but are lockable to no-one/team/squad. my idea is a complete revamp of tanks so nothing that we have currently has any relevance to it, isk price, who owns it and what seat they get, what skills they have spent all their sp on. it has no relevance at this moment in time. its a basic idea so the argument i bought it and skilled into it so its all mine is irrelevent. its not just yours in my idea. its a squad asset. the owner could be the top gunner if that was his/ her prefered position although its unlikely but its still a choice. as for who buys it. you, corp,squad,team, a friend, borrow or steal it. as for sp well you no longer need 20-30 mil sp to be any good. you only need sp for the seat you prefer to take.
ADAM-OF-EVE Svartur Bjorn Neo Terra Empire 301	Posted - 2013.09.20 15:11:00 - [9] - Quote Tebu Gan wrote: ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: 1)driver drives and operates front turret and tanking modules 2)main gunner operates main turret and turret modules. 3)top gunner is exposed out of the top turret like on an lav. double tank ehp due to complexity of new tank controls. no more solo tanking. add in complete lock out on tanks by the owner. when he/she calls it in it is locked completely until he/she unlocks it for crew or it is hacked by the enemy. this allows them to select the position in the tank they want. they can also unlock for squad only or free for all. add in climbing in and out of vehicles to commit people to the tank crew and not just instant hitch a ride or hide. vehicle views would have to be tweaked slightly. driver would get a front view screen only which incorporates his /hers forward turret. main gunner would have full allround view as the tank driver currently gets while not in turret view. this comes at the expense of having your head out the top of the turret. when in turret mode you are no longer exposed but have only the turret zoom view. the top gunner is always exposed but has an extended view of the area around the tank. his turret would have a forward shield for shield tanks and an arm shield for arm tanks. he is completely protected from the direction his turret is facing.. the full crew makes the tank very effective when they work together. if 1 is taken out then this effectiveness is reduced. when the tank is in full combat mode then the top gunner is the general allround eyes. if he is taken out then its doen to the main gunner who is now at a reduced visual effectiveness. this basicly allows players to disable tanks without actually needing to destroy them NO I spend the money on the tank, I control it. Nuff said. why should you spend the money on the tank, or the sp investment if its designed for squad use. in its current state its design makes it a solo weapon of mass destruction with a high cost in both skill and isk to limit its use. my suggestion is for it not to be solo. so not your responsibility to fund or skill into unless you want too. 3 crew is a cost split 3 ways both in isk required to kit out and also in sp required to operate.
ADAM-OF-EVE Svartur Bjorn Neo Terra Empire 301	Posted - 2013.09.20 15:35:00 - [10] - Quote The Attorney General wrote: ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: my idea is a complete revamp of tanks so nothing that we have currently has any relevance to it, isk price, who owns it and what seat they get, what skills they have spent all their sp on. it has no relevance at this moment in time. its a basic idea so the argument i bought it and skilled into it so its all mine is irrelevent. its not just yours in my idea. its a squad asset. the owner could be the top gunner if that was his/ her prefered position although its unlikely but its still a choice. as for who buys it. you, corp,squad,team, a friend, borrow or steal it. as for sp well you no longer need 20-30 mil sp to be any good. you only need sp for the seat you prefer to take. Someone needs to skill into the chassis. Someone needs to skill into the main turret. If the person who skills into the chassis is the driver, he would never skill into turrets that he won't be using. If the person who skills into the chassis also has to skill into the turret, he is investing SP for someone else to use something, which is ridiculous. And yes, whomever is calling it in has to skill into the whole vehicle, which he can't use, because that is how the fitting system works. Your idea is bad, but instead of giving it up you are going to try and keep acting like it is a good idea. Also, you don't need 20 million SP to be good in tanks. You cna make very servicable fits for less than 6, can roll PC if you choose your skills wisely at 7, and be fit maxxed for one type of tank at around 8.5-9.5. So I'll support this type of BS as long as: Heavies need a Logi to spawn in their HMG for them. Only Logis can equip nanohives. All infantry must get their grenades from a nanaohive, as they spawn with zero. All infantry spawn with half of their current ammo, to promote teamwork. All infantry are limited by the meta level of what their squad leader spawns in. He goes MLT, you do to. Because if you want to promote teamwork, lets do it with infantry as well. Because as long as an Assault troop with a Duvolle and AV nades is an omni threat, then we can't be trying to force teamwork on other parts of the game. All of this is completely irrelevant because tanking is already highly team oriented if you want to survive. You can't ignore the infantry with you, because if they pull back and you decide to hang out and try and get more kills, you are getting blown up pretty fast. did i say someone had to skill into the chassis, did i say someone had to skill into the turrets, i did say they are only responsible for their own space in the tank. specialise or jack of all trades it thats upto the individual crew member. calling in the vehicle. why would anyone have to be skilled into it. on the current system they would have too but this is not in the current system its an idea and things could be changed so it could be implemented. like i said use it as a squad asset. orbitals are squad assets so they could easy be called in via a system like that.

ADAM-OF-EVE Svartur Bjorn Neo Terra Empire 302	Posted - 2013.09.20 17:07:00 - [11] - Quote KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: Well perhaps solo operated tanks could be smaller ones, like scout tanks? And multi operated be the toughest heavy tanks? reconnaissance tanks for solo purposes fast with medium tanking and dps to match their size and roll. MBT's 3 man crew with high dps,high ehp, slow that might work. people could do their public solo but when needed they could crew up and roll an mbt
ADAM-OF-EVE Svartur Bjorn Neo Terra Empire 304	Posted - 2013.09.21 10:43:00 - [12] - Quote new suggestion to bring tankers in line with all other suits in game seeing as that is what they want to use them like. nerf ehp to just slightly more than a heavy, nerf dps to slightly more than a hmg for blasters and slightly more than a fg for rails, remove the 2 spare seats, remove the 2 spare weapons, slow the speed down to slightly more than a heavy reduece the cost to slightly more than a heavy remove the lock on of swarms now your still more powerful than everyone else but more on equal terms.
ADAM-OF-EVE Svartur Bjorn Neo Terra Empire 304	Posted - 2013.09.21 11:45:00 - [13] - Quote misconceptions of most tank drivers "we provide cover" no you don't, we jump inside to hide and you moan, we hide down the side and you drive away because you think we are going to jump inside,you don't go anywhere near the enemy because all you care about is protecting your own hide so we are left exposed or cant advance without taking losses. "we provide covering fire" no you don't, you are only out there to get kills. any shooting you do is because it might get you a kill. your not covering open ground or suppressing the enemy. your purely kill whoring. " we are team players" biggest misconception of them all. your in a 3 seater tank and all you want to do is solo in it, if you had a choice you would lock the vehicle and remove the turrets so you could fit more dps and tank. i would hardly call that team oriented behaviour. you complain when someone is in your vehicle who might actually help you spot swarmers or fg before they hit you. instead you still prefer to solo and blame av for your issues or the team on the ground for not killing them before they get to you. " we spent all the isk and sp to use them so we should be able to do what we want" a FG user spends alot of sp and isk to do his job dedicated to kill you a swarm user spends alot of sp and isk to do his job dedicated to kill you only difference your weapons kill everyone the same regardless of what everyone else has fit. also you might die once in 5 games losing a mil isk. mercs on the ground might die alot more times in that same amount and lose alot more isk than you. people are treating tanks like suits and expect to solo in them the same as a merc solo's in his suit but your wrong. you are a merc first then a tank driver. the tank is an asset same as a piece of equipment thrown on the ground for support or tactical situations. they need to be look at in the same way and not treated and compared to other suits and weapons.
ADAM-OF-EVE Svartur Bjorn Neo Terra Empire 304	Posted - 2013.09.21 15:56:00 - [14] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: I really can't understand how you, as a non-tanker, can believe that you should tell us how tanks are supposed to operate, when you don't tank yourself. anymore, i prefer teamwork and tanks in their current state offer none of that. you look at tanks as a solo weapons and direct all your griefs about them and what buffs you want based on that where as i see them for what they should be, as support weapons with a 3 man crew and they should be balanced accordingly.
ADAM-OF-EVE Svartur Bjorn Neo Terra Empire 304	Posted - 2013.09.21 16:03:00 - [15] - Quote sly Bandit wrote: ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: new suggestion to bring tankers in line with all other suits in game seeing as that is what they want to use them like. >all other suits >suits A tank is not a suit it's a vehicle.... and that why i worded the sentence that way
ADAM-OF-EVE Svartur Bjorn Neo Terra Empire 304	Posted - 2013.09.21 16:05:00 - [16] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: I really can't understand how you, as a non-tanker, can believe that you should tell us how tanks are supposed to operate, when you don't tank yourself. anymore, i prefer teamwork and tanks in their current state offer none of that. you look at tanks as a solo weapons and direct all your griefs about them and what buffs you want based on that where as i see them for what they should be, as support weapons with a 3 man crew and they should be balanced accordingly. You're not even countering my points. You're repeating the same vomit you've been spewing on this thread. Why don't you reply to any of my points? i did. i don't drive them anymore. because they are not fit for purpose. and no. death dealing killing machines is not what i mean by fit for purpose if they are ever going to be fixed they need a little more work than a simple buff to ehp or nerf to av or locks on vehicles.
ADAM-OF-EVE Svartur Bjorn Neo Terra Empire 304	Posted - 2013.09.21 16:26:00 - [17] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: I really can't understand how you, as a non-tanker, can believe that you should tell us how tanks are supposed to operate, when you don't tank yourself. anymore, i prefer teamwork and tanks in their current state offer none of that. you look at tanks as a solo weapons and direct all your griefs about them and what buffs you want based on that where as i see them for what they should be, as support weapons with a 3 man crew and they should be balanced accordingly. You're not even countering my points. You're repeating the same vomit you've been spewing on this thread. Why don't you reply to any of my points? i did. i don't drive them anymore. because they are not fit for purpose. and no. death dealing killing machines is not what i mean by fit for purpose There's no way you're an ex-tanker if you're so hostile to them with your terrible, game-destroying ideas. CCP is giving us the option of offensive or defensive tanks. Some will try to fit the best of them. Nowhere in their plans for vehicle balancing does it include your absolutely terrible ideas. How could it possibly benefit a tanker if it requires 2 to operate a vehicle? There would be no reason at all to skill into them, ever. You're still not replying to any of my points. what points. when you start making constructive criticism about the idea instead of rambling your nonsense then maybe i will. tanks are never ever going to be fixed with people like you stuck with your idealistic views of what tanks should be like. fair enough, stick with your flawed tank mentality, when ccp who is obviously having a hard time giving you what you want finally release what they have and it fails don't come crying on the forums because you will get no sympathy from infantry. we may not be in tanks anymore or have never tried tanks but we are the only ones in the ideal position to tell you what is effective against us and how we might counter you without rendering either of us UP or OP. we are the ones you need to help you. if your not willing to compromise or work with us then you deserve being blown up
ADAM-OF-EVE Svartur Bjorn Neo Terra Empire 331	Posted - 2013.09.23 16:05:00 - [18] - Quote i think it has shown us alot about what tankers are really like