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Spkr4theDead
International-Fleet
781
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 06:46:00 -
[91] - Quote
Scheneighnay McBob wrote:Support.
Unfortunately, I knew how the community would react to this, since I suggested it several times in the past. No matter how much sense it makes, they think that a high price tag justifies being able to go solo.
It doesn't. Price = potential effectiveness; not base effectiveness. It doesn't make sense at all. |
Spkr4theDead
International-Fleet
781
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 06:47:00 -
[92] - Quote
Delta 749 wrote:Funny how all the tankers say they work as part of their team but any suggestions making their vehicle most effective with team work get shot down isnt it Anyway I bet you a dollar they would lock everyone out and just jump around every seat if your suggestions were ever implemented You're still ignoring my offer, Delta.
Put up or shut up. You know nothing of tanking. |
Godin Thekiller
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
788
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 06:51:00 -
[93] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:Scheneighnay McBob wrote:Support.
Unfortunately, I knew how the community would react to this, since I suggested it several times in the past. No matter how much sense it makes, they think that a high price tag justifies being able to go solo.
It doesn't. Price = potential effectiveness; not base effectiveness. It doesn't make sense at all.
I'm not sure why he thinks that since it's a high price tag, it should be split up. That's like saying Heavies Would cost 500k, but needs to get ammo from logi's at the start, and can't move. |
Godin Thekiller
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
788
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 06:58:00 -
[94] - Quote
KEROSIINI-TERO wrote:Well perhaps solo operated tanks could be smaller ones, like scout tanks?
And multi operated be the toughest heavy tanks?
It's over. Not going to happen. No. |
Godin Thekiller
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
790
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 07:01:00 -
[95] - Quote
Delta 749 wrote:Funny how all the tankers say they work as part of their team but any suggestions making their vehicle most effective with team work get shot down isnt it Anyway I bet you a dollar they would lock everyone out and just jump around every seat if your suggestions were ever implemented
Funny how none of the infantry scrubs respond to any of the ideas the pilots put up, or call them stupid, and when we ask them why, they just keep calling it stupid. And as I have, and all the other pilots here has said, this makes us literally dependent on getting someone to hop in, and pray to god that they are not ******* stupid, or always have a squad mate. You really think that's okay? |
Spkr4theDead
International-Fleet
781
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 07:04:00 -
[96] - Quote
Godin Thekiller wrote:Delta 749 wrote:Funny how all the tankers say they work as part of their team but any suggestions making their vehicle most effective with team work get shot down isnt it Anyway I bet you a dollar they would lock everyone out and just jump around every seat if your suggestions were ever implemented Funny how none of the infantry scrubs respond to any of the ideas the pilots put up, or call them stupid, and when we ask them why, they just keep calling it stupid. And as I have, and all the other pilots here has said, this makes us literally dependent on getting someone to hop in, and pray to god that they are not ******* stupid, or always have a squad mate. You really think that's okay? Of course he thinks it's okay, because it's not going to directly affect him. |
Godin Thekiller
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
790
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 07:07:00 -
[97] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:Godin Thekiller wrote:Delta 749 wrote:Funny how all the tankers say they work as part of their team but any suggestions making their vehicle most effective with team work get shot down isnt it Anyway I bet you a dollar they would lock everyone out and just jump around every seat if your suggestions were ever implemented Funny how none of the infantry scrubs respond to any of the ideas the pilots put up, or call them stupid, and when we ask them why, they just keep calling it stupid. And as I have, and all the other pilots here has said, this makes us literally dependent on getting someone to hop in, and pray to god that they are not ******* stupid, or always have a squad mate. You really think that's okay? Of course he thinks it's okay, because it's not going to directly affect him.
Well, that's a goddamn shame then |
ADAM-OF-EVE
Svartur Bjorn Neo Terra Empire
304
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 10:43:00 -
[98] - Quote
new suggestion to bring tankers in line with all other suits in game seeing as that is what they want to use them like.
nerf ehp to just slightly more than a heavy,
nerf dps to slightly more than a hmg for blasters and slightly more than a fg for rails,
remove the 2 spare seats,
remove the 2 spare weapons,
slow the speed down to slightly more than a heavy
reduece the cost to slightly more than a heavy
remove the lock on of swarms
now your still more powerful than everyone else but more on equal terms. |
ADAM-OF-EVE
Svartur Bjorn Neo Terra Empire
304
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 11:45:00 -
[99] - Quote
misconceptions of most tank drivers
"we provide cover"
no you don't, we jump inside to hide and you moan, we hide down the side and you drive away because you think we are going to jump inside,you don't go anywhere near the enemy because all you care about is protecting your own hide so we are left exposed or cant advance without taking losses.
"we provide covering fire"
no you don't, you are only out there to get kills. any shooting you do is because it might get you a kill. your not covering open ground or suppressing the enemy. your purely kill whoring.
" we are team players"
biggest misconception of them all. your in a 3 seater tank and all you want to do is solo in it, if you had a choice you would lock the vehicle and remove the turrets so you could fit more dps and tank. i would hardly call that team oriented behaviour. you complain when someone is in your vehicle who might actually help you spot swarmers or fg before they hit you. instead you still prefer to solo and blame av for your issues or the team on the ground for not killing them before they get to you.
" we spent all the isk and sp to use them so we should be able to do what we want"
a FG user spends alot of sp and isk to do his job dedicated to kill you a swarm user spends alot of sp and isk to do his job dedicated to kill you
only difference your weapons kill everyone the same regardless of what everyone else has fit. also you might die once in 5 games losing a mil isk. mercs on the ground might die alot more times in that same amount and lose alot more isk than you.
people are treating tanks like suits and expect to solo in them the same as a merc solo's in his suit but your wrong. you are a merc first then a tank driver. the tank is an asset same as a piece of equipment thrown on the ground for support or tactical situations. they need to be look at in the same way and not treated and compared to other suits and weapons.
|
Spkr4theDead
International-Fleet
785
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 15:29:00 -
[100] - Quote
ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:new suggestion to bring tankers in line with all other suits in game seeing as that is what they want to use them like.
nerf ehp to just slightly more than a heavy,
nerf dps to slightly more than a hmg for blasters and slightly more than a fg for rails,
remove the 2 spare seats,
remove the 2 spare weapons,
slow the speed down to slightly more than a heavy
reduece the cost to slightly more than a heavy
remove the lock on of swarms
now your still more powerful than everyone else but more on equal terms. LOL That's not a tank, that's a joke. Heavies aren't more powerful than anything. You can still easily be outgunned by anything as well.
Before the TAR nerf, it was already proven that one of those was on par with a large ADV blaster. |
|
Spkr4theDead
International-Fleet
785
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 15:34:00 -
[101] - Quote
I really can't understand how you, as a non-tanker, can believe that you should tell us how tanks are supposed to operate, when you don't tank yourself. |
Spkr4theDead
International-Fleet
785
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 15:56:00 -
[102] - Quote
ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:misconceptions of most tank drivers
"we provide cover"
no you don't, we jump inside to hide and you moan, we hide down the side and you drive away because you think we are going to jump inside,you don't go anywhere near the enemy because all you care about is protecting your own hide so we are left exposed or cant advance without taking losses.
I sometimes wait minutes in the redline after getting in my tank, because idiots just won't get out. What do they do when they jump in? Fire a couple of salvos of missiles. They never even join the squad to see what's going on. When we're rolling around, they don't kill AV. We don't go near enemies because they don't kill them. They expect us to do everything. I don't know how many times I've advanced on something, only to find myself alone against a squad because the rest of my team is nowhere to be found.
"we provide covering fire"
no you don't, you are only out there to get kills. any shooting you do is because it might get you a kill. your not covering open ground or suppressing the enemy. your purely kill whoring.
You make it sound like a tanker getting a kill is an accident. A tanker on open ground = easy pickings for AV.
" we are team players"
biggest misconception of them all. your in a 3 seater tank and all you want to do is solo in it, if you had a choice you would lock the vehicle and remove the turrets so you could fit more dps and tank. i would hardly call that team oriented behaviour. you complain when someone is in your vehicle who might actually help you spot swarmers or fg before they hit you. instead you still prefer to solo and blame av for your issues or the team on the ground for not killing them before they get to you.
We're more team players than infantry are. Removing the small turrets is a great way to keep costs down, as well as so far, the only way to not broadcast your position to enemy AV, as well as the entire galaxy, because if we don't give blue dots things to shoot at, then we're apparently doing it wrong. It's just removing the turrets, not a lock. They could still get a ride if we choose to give them one. They never join the squad, so how are they going to spot threats for us?
" we spent all the isk and sp to use them so we should be able to do what we want"
Why do you think other people, especially you, should dictate how we put our SP and ISK to use?
a FG user spends alot of sp and isk to do his job dedicated to kill you
I'll grant that forge guns require more SP in general, because only the heavy suit can wield them.
a swarm user spends alot of sp and isk to do his job dedicated to kill you
LOL NO It only requires 273,600 SP to unlock Haywire Wiyrkomi swarms.
only difference your weapons kill everyone the same regardless of what everyone else has fit. also you might die once in 5 games losing a mil isk. mercs on the ground might die alot more times in that same amount and lose alot more isk than you.
...... Dropsuits don't cost a million ISK. They don't cost 500,000 ISK. Very rarely will they cost 200,000 ISK. The blaster I use for PC costs 1.5mil ISK. Infantry running all PRO gear has to die 7 times to equal the cost of that specific tank. The ISK Wiyrkomi costs 28,845 ISK. A heavy IG-L repair module costs 46,320 ISK. Infantry cost =/= vehicle cost
people are treating tanks like suits and expect to solo in them the same as a merc solo's in his suit but your wrong. you are a merc first then a tank driver. the tank is an asset same as a piece of equipment thrown on the ground for support or tactical situations. they need to be look at in the same way and not treated and compared to other suits and weapons.
No, because our SP is in vehicles. If we don't have above 20mil SP, we're terrible on foot. A tank =/= nanohive or nanite injector. I pray that CCP doesn't consider your opinion.
|
ADAM-OF-EVE
Svartur Bjorn Neo Terra Empire
304
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 15:56:00 -
[103] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:I really can't understand how you, as a non-tanker, can believe that you should tell us how tanks are supposed to operate, when you don't tank yourself.
anymore,
i prefer teamwork and tanks in their current state offer none of that.
you look at tanks as a solo weapons and direct all your griefs about them and what buffs you want based on that where as i see them for what they should be, as support weapons with a 3 man crew and they should be balanced accordingly. |
Spkr4theDead
International-Fleet
786
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 15:59:00 -
[104] - Quote
ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:I really can't understand how you, as a non-tanker, can believe that you should tell us how tanks are supposed to operate, when you don't tank yourself. anymore, i prefer teamwork and tanks in their current state offer none of that. you look at tanks as a solo weapons and direct all your griefs about them and what buffs you want based on that where as i see them for what they should be, as support weapons with a 3 man crew and they should be balanced accordingly. You're not even countering my points. You're repeating the same vomit you've been spewing on this thread. Why don't you reply to any of my points? |
sly Bandit
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
38
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 16:00:00 -
[105] - Quote
ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:new suggestion to bring tankers in line with all other suits in game seeing as that is what they want to use them like.
>all other suits >suits
A tank is not a suit it's a vehicle....
|
ADAM-OF-EVE
Svartur Bjorn Neo Terra Empire
304
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 16:03:00 -
[106] - Quote
sly Bandit wrote:ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:new suggestion to bring tankers in line with all other suits in game seeing as that is what they want to use them like. >all other suits >suits A tank is not a suit it's a vehicle....
and that why i worded the sentence that way |
ADAM-OF-EVE
Svartur Bjorn Neo Terra Empire
304
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 16:05:00 -
[107] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:I really can't understand how you, as a non-tanker, can believe that you should tell us how tanks are supposed to operate, when you don't tank yourself. anymore, i prefer teamwork and tanks in their current state offer none of that. you look at tanks as a solo weapons and direct all your griefs about them and what buffs you want based on that where as i see them for what they should be, as support weapons with a 3 man crew and they should be balanced accordingly. You're not even countering my points. You're repeating the same vomit you've been spewing on this thread. Why don't you reply to any of my points?
i did. i don't drive them anymore. because they are not fit for purpose. and no. death dealing killing machines is not what i mean by fit for purpose
if they are ever going to be fixed they need a little more work than a simple buff to ehp or nerf to av or locks on vehicles. |
Spkr4theDead
International-Fleet
786
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 16:09:00 -
[108] - Quote
ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:I really can't understand how you, as a non-tanker, can believe that you should tell us how tanks are supposed to operate, when you don't tank yourself. anymore, i prefer teamwork and tanks in their current state offer none of that. you look at tanks as a solo weapons and direct all your griefs about them and what buffs you want based on that where as i see them for what they should be, as support weapons with a 3 man crew and they should be balanced accordingly. You're not even countering my points. You're repeating the same vomit you've been spewing on this thread. Why don't you reply to any of my points? i did. i don't drive them anymore. because they are not fit for purpose. and no. death dealing killing machines is not what i mean by fit for purpose There's no way you're an ex-tanker if you're so hostile to them with your terrible, game-destroying ideas. CCP is giving us the option of offensive or defensive tanks. Some will try to fit the best of them.
Nowhere in their plans for vehicle balancing does it include your absolutely terrible ideas. How could it possibly benefit a tanker if it requires 2 to operate a vehicle? There would be no reason at all to skill into them, ever.
You're still not replying to any of my points. |
ADAM-OF-EVE
Svartur Bjorn Neo Terra Empire
304
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 16:26:00 -
[109] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:I really can't understand how you, as a non-tanker, can believe that you should tell us how tanks are supposed to operate, when you don't tank yourself. anymore, i prefer teamwork and tanks in their current state offer none of that. you look at tanks as a solo weapons and direct all your griefs about them and what buffs you want based on that where as i see them for what they should be, as support weapons with a 3 man crew and they should be balanced accordingly. You're not even countering my points. You're repeating the same vomit you've been spewing on this thread. Why don't you reply to any of my points? i did. i don't drive them anymore. because they are not fit for purpose. and no. death dealing killing machines is not what i mean by fit for purpose There's no way you're an ex-tanker if you're so hostile to them with your terrible, game-destroying ideas. CCP is giving us the option of offensive or defensive tanks. Some will try to fit the best of them. Nowhere in their plans for vehicle balancing does it include your absolutely terrible ideas. How could it possibly benefit a tanker if it requires 2 to operate a vehicle? There would be no reason at all to skill into them, ever. You're still not replying to any of my points.
what points. when you start making constructive criticism about the idea instead of rambling your nonsense then maybe i will.
tanks are never ever going to be fixed with people like you stuck with your idealistic views of what tanks should be like.
fair enough, stick with your flawed tank mentality, when ccp who is obviously having a hard time giving you what you want finally release what they have and it fails don't come crying on the forums because you will get no sympathy from infantry.
we may not be in tanks anymore or have never tried tanks but we are the only ones in the ideal position to tell you what is effective against us and how we might counter you without rendering either of us UP or OP. we are the ones you need to help you. if your not willing to compromise or work with us then you deserve being blown up |
Spkr4theDead
International-Fleet
787
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 16:30:00 -
[110] - Quote
Whatever |
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Spkr4theDead
International-Fleet
787
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 16:33:00 -
[111] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:misconceptions of most tank drivers
"we provide cover"
no you don't, we jump inside to hide and you moan, we hide down the side and you drive away because you think we are going to jump inside,you don't go anywhere near the enemy because all you care about is protecting your own hide so we are left exposed or cant advance without taking losses.
I sometimes wait minutes in the redline after getting in my tank, because idiots just won't get out. What do they do when they jump in? Fire a couple of salvos of missiles. They never even join the squad to see what's going on. When we're rolling around, they don't kill AV. We don't go near enemies because they don't kill them. They expect us to do everything. I don't know how many times I've advanced on something, only to find myself alone against a squad because the rest of my team is nowhere to be found.
"we provide covering fire"
no you don't, you are only out there to get kills. any shooting you do is because it might get you a kill. your not covering open ground or suppressing the enemy. your purely kill whoring.
You make it sound like a tanker getting a kill is an accident. A tanker on open ground = easy pickings for AV.
" we are team players"
biggest misconception of them all. your in a 3 seater tank and all you want to do is solo in it, if you had a choice you would lock the vehicle and remove the turrets so you could fit more dps and tank. i would hardly call that team oriented behaviour. you complain when someone is in your vehicle who might actually help you spot swarmers or fg before they hit you. instead you still prefer to solo and blame av for your issues or the team on the ground for not killing them before they get to you.
We're more team players than infantry are. Removing the small turrets is a great way to keep costs down, as well as so far, the only way to not broadcast your position to enemy AV, as well as the entire galaxy, because if we don't give blue dots things to shoot at, then we're apparently doing it wrong. It's just removing the turrets, not a lock. They could still get a ride if we choose to give them one. They never join the squad, so how are they going to spot threats for us?
" we spent all the isk and sp to use them so we should be able to do what we want"
Why do you think other people, especially you, should dictate how we put our SP and ISK to use?
a FG user spends alot of sp and isk to do his job dedicated to kill you
I'll grant that forge guns require more SP in general, because only the heavy suit can wield them.
a swarm user spends alot of sp and isk to do his job dedicated to kill you
LOL NO It only requires 273,600 SP to unlock Haywire Wiyrkomi swarms.
only difference your weapons kill everyone the same regardless of what everyone else has fit. also you might die once in 5 games losing a mil isk. mercs on the ground might die alot more times in that same amount and lose alot more isk than you.
...... Dropsuits don't cost a million ISK. They don't cost 500,000 ISK. Very rarely will they cost 200,000 ISK. The blaster I use for PC costs 1.5mil ISK. Infantry running all PRO gear has to die 7 times to equal the cost of that specific tank. The ISK Wiyrkomi costs 28,845 ISK. A heavy IG-L repair module costs 46,320 ISK. Infantry cost =/= vehicle cost
people are treating tanks like suits and expect to solo in them the same as a merc solo's in his suit but your wrong. you are a merc first then a tank driver. the tank is an asset same as a piece of equipment thrown on the ground for support or tactical situations. they need to be look at in the same way and not treated and compared to other suits and weapons.
No, because our SP is in vehicles. If we don't have above 20mil SP, we're terrible on foot. A tank =/= nanohive or nanite injector. I pray that CCP doesn't consider your opinion.
Is it really not reasonable for you to reply to this? |
R F Gyro
Clones 4u
513
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 16:38:00 -
[112] - Quote
ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:1)driver drives and operates front turret and tanking modules
2)main gunner operates main turret and turret modules.
3)top gunner is exposed out of the top turret like on an lav.
double tank ehp due to complexity of new tank controls. no more solo tanking. add in complete lock out on tanks by the owner. when he/she calls it in it is locked completely until he/she unlocks it for crew or it is hacked by the enemy. this allows them to select the position in the tank they want. they can also unlock for squad only or free for all.
add in climbing in and out of vehicles to commit people to the tank crew and not just instant hitch a ride or hide.
vehicle views would have to be tweaked slightly.
driver would get a front view screen only which incorporates his /hers forward turret.
main gunner would have full allround view as the tank driver currently gets while not in turret view. this comes at the expense of having your head out the top of the turret. when in turret mode you are no longer exposed but have only the turret zoom view.
the top gunner is always exposed but has an extended view of the area around the tank. his turret would have a forward shield for shield tanks and an arm shield for arm tanks. he is completely protected from the direction his turret is facing..
the full crew makes the tank very effective when they work together. if 1 is taken out then this effectiveness is reduced. when the tank is in full combat mode then the top gunner is the general allround eyes. if he is taken out then its doen to the main gunner who is now at a reduced visual effectiveness.
this basicly allows players to disable tanks without actually needing to destroy them
This is an excellent idea, but the tanks drivers simply won't accept it (in my experience).
The problem is, even though one player in a HAV is already significantly more powerful than one player not in a HAV, the tank drivers somehow think their HAVs need to be buffed "because its a tank". They have been able to lonewold pwn for so long they feel entitled.
|
Spkr4theDead
International-Fleet
789
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 16:41:00 -
[113] - Quote
R F Gyro wrote:ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:1)driver drives and operates front turret and tanking modules
2)main gunner operates main turret and turret modules.
3)top gunner is exposed out of the top turret like on an lav.
double tank ehp due to complexity of new tank controls. no more solo tanking. add in complete lock out on tanks by the owner. when he/she calls it in it is locked completely until he/she unlocks it for crew or it is hacked by the enemy. this allows them to select the position in the tank they want. they can also unlock for squad only or free for all.
add in climbing in and out of vehicles to commit people to the tank crew and not just instant hitch a ride or hide.
vehicle views would have to be tweaked slightly.
driver would get a front view screen only which incorporates his /hers forward turret.
main gunner would have full allround view as the tank driver currently gets while not in turret view. this comes at the expense of having your head out the top of the turret. when in turret mode you are no longer exposed but have only the turret zoom view.
the top gunner is always exposed but has an extended view of the area around the tank. his turret would have a forward shield for shield tanks and an arm shield for arm tanks. he is completely protected from the direction his turret is facing..
the full crew makes the tank very effective when they work together. if 1 is taken out then this effectiveness is reduced. when the tank is in full combat mode then the top gunner is the general allround eyes. if he is taken out then its doen to the main gunner who is now at a reduced visual effectiveness.
this basicly allows players to disable tanks without actually needing to destroy them This is an excellent idea, but the tanks drivers simply won't accept it (in my experience). The problem is, even though one player in a HAV is already significantly more powerful than one player not in a HAV, the tank drivers somehow think their HAVs need to be buffed "because its a tank". They have been able to lonewold pwn for so long they feel entitled. Explain why you feel it's an excellent idea. |
R F Gyro
Clones 4u
513
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 16:46:00 -
[114] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:Explain why you feel it's an excellent idea. Because I really want tanks (HAVs) to be big, bad monsters of the battlefield. I want tanks and AV balanced so that it takes several players using good teamwork to kill them. I want proto tanks that can only be killed by a group of proto AV infantry.
However, in order for tanks to be so strong it takes multiple players working as a team to kill them, and for the game to remain balanced, it must take multiple players working as a team to operate them.
All the other HAV/AV balance suggestions I've seen so far are based around balancing on ISK, which is doomed to failure as we all get richer. We need to balance the game first and foremost on the most limited resource in Dust battles, which is the players. Balance on that first, and then tune the balance with ISK.
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Spkr4theDead
International-Fleet
789
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 17:09:00 -
[115] - Quote
R F Gyro wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:Explain why you feel it's an excellent idea. Because I really want tanks (HAVs) to be big, bad monsters of the battlefield. I want tanks and AV balanced so that it takes several players using good teamwork to kill them. I want proto tanks that can only be killed by a group of proto AV infantry. However, in order for tanks to be so strong it takes multiple players working as a team to kill them, and for the game to remain balanced, it must take multiple players working as a team to operate them. All the other HAV/AV balance suggestions I've seen so far are based around balancing on ISK, which is doomed to failure as we all get richer. We need to balance the game first and foremost on the most limited resource in Dust battles, which is the players. Balance on that first, and then tune the balance with ISK. Lol you can't get infantry that visit the forums to use teamwork to take out tanks now.
It's a terrible idea. |
R F Gyro
Clones 4u
513
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 17:13:00 -
[116] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:R F Gyro wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:Explain why you feel it's an excellent idea. Because I really want tanks (HAVs) to be big, bad monsters of the battlefield. I want tanks and AV balanced so that it takes several players using good teamwork to kill them. I want proto tanks that can only be killed by a group of proto AV infantry. However, in order for tanks to be so strong it takes multiple players working as a team to kill them, and for the game to remain balanced, it must take multiple players working as a team to operate them. All the other HAV/AV balance suggestions I've seen so far are based around balancing on ISK, which is doomed to failure as we all get richer. We need to balance the game first and foremost on the most limited resource in Dust battles, which is the players. Balance on that first, and then tune the balance with ISK. Lol you can't get infantry that visit the forums to use teamwork to take out tanks now. It's a terrible idea. Ahh.... I see.
I need to explain my reasoning, whereas you merely need to "lol" and state "its a terrible idea".
I admit, you've soundly beaten me in this debate. |
Lurchasaurus
SVER True Blood Public Disorder.
1982
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 18:28:00 -
[117] - Quote
R F Gyro wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:R F Gyro wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:Explain why you feel it's an excellent idea. Because I really want tanks (HAVs) to be big, bad monsters of the battlefield. I want tanks and AV balanced so that it takes several players using good teamwork to kill them. I want proto tanks that can only be killed by a group of proto AV infantry. However, in order for tanks to be so strong it takes multiple players working as a team to kill them, and for the game to remain balanced, it must take multiple players working as a team to operate them. All the other HAV/AV balance suggestions I've seen so far are based around balancing on ISK, which is doomed to failure as we all get richer. We need to balance the game first and foremost on the most limited resource in Dust battles, which is the players. Balance on that first, and then tune the balance with ISK. Lol you can't get infantry that visit the forums to use teamwork to take out tanks now. It's a terrible idea. Ahh.... I see. I need to explain my reasoning, whereas you merely need to "lol" and state "its a terrible idea". I admit, you've soundly beaten me in this debate.
People still complain that Lai Dais and swarms aren't good enough. Look anywhere on the forums. Im sure he did not mention anything because your original statement was not backed by reality.
Tank risk vs. reward is appallingly unbalanced in favor of infantry. The only worse imbalance in this game is for dropships.
Telling me I can no longer use my own vehicle that only I have invested sp and isk into because you dont like how my gun is bigger is not going to fly. We chose tanks, you chose a handheld gun. And guess what......your handheld guns pump out more burst damage. Hell, you dont even have to drop your anti-infantry stuff cause Lai Dais can be equipped for 15k isk, a negligible amount of CPU/PG, a 4x multiplier, and can be used with nanohives. Oh yeah, they home in and act as mines if they miss.
Who is the one ruining the teamwork and balance of the game? The tanker who pays 2.5 mil isk for a tank that can be instajibbed by any two man AV team regardless of driver skill or the assault suit with a duvolle+sidearm, Lai Dais, proto triage hives, and hundreds EHP? |
Spkr4theDead
International-Fleet
789
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 19:03:00 -
[118] - Quote
R F Gyro wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:R F Gyro wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:Explain why you feel it's an excellent idea. Because I really want tanks (HAVs) to be big, bad monsters of the battlefield. I want tanks and AV balanced so that it takes several players using good teamwork to kill them. I want proto tanks that can only be killed by a group of proto AV infantry. However, in order for tanks to be so strong it takes multiple players working as a team to kill them, and for the game to remain balanced, it must take multiple players working as a team to operate them. All the other HAV/AV balance suggestions I've seen so far are based around balancing on ISK, which is doomed to failure as we all get richer. We need to balance the game first and foremost on the most limited resource in Dust battles, which is the players. Balance on that first, and then tune the balance with ISK. Lol you can't get infantry that visit the forums to use teamwork to take out tanks now. It's a terrible idea. Ahh.... I see. I need to explain my reasoning, whereas you merely need to "lol" and state "its a terrible idea". I admit, you've soundly beaten me in this debate. I'm just doing the same thing the OP is doing. |
Godin Thekiller
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
798
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 23:45:00 -
[119] - Quote
ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:misconceptions of most tank drivers
"we provide cover"
no you don't, we jump inside to hide and you moan, we hide down the side and you drive away because you think we are going to jump inside,you don't go anywhere near the enemy because all you care about is protecting your own hide so we are left exposed or cant advance without taking losses.
"we provide covering fire"
no you don't, you are only out there to get kills. any shooting you do is because it might get you a kill. your not covering open ground or suppressing the enemy. your purely kill whoring.
" we are team players"
biggest misconception of them all. your in a 3 seater tank and all you want to do is solo in it, if you had a choice you would lock the vehicle and remove the turrets so you could fit more dps and tank. i would hardly call that team oriented behaviour. you complain when someone is in your vehicle who might actually help you spot swarmers or fg before they hit you. instead you still prefer to solo and blame av for your issues or the team on the ground for not killing them before they get to you.
" we spent all the isk and sp to use them so we should be able to do what we want"
a FG user spends alot of sp and isk to do his job dedicated to kill you a swarm user spends alot of sp and isk to do his job dedicated to kill you
only difference your weapons kill everyone the same regardless of what everyone else has fit. also you might die once in 5 games losing a mil isk. mercs on the ground might die alot more times in that same amount and lose alot more isk than you.
people are treating tanks like suits and expect to solo in them the same as a merc solo's in his suit but your wrong. you are a merc first then a tank driver. the tank is an asset same as a piece of equipment thrown on the ground for support or tactical situations. they need to be look at in the same way and not treated and compared to other suits and weapons.
lol, let's see:
1: I literally use My HAV to cover my squad mates. If my slots are full (damn bluedots), then I tell them to get behind me and peek in and out. Also, I use it to block incoming AV fire at other vehicles, so I will get damaged instead of them blowing up.
2: I will either sit back behind the group and lay out suppressing or covering fire for my team to move up and further put pressure on the other team, or I will rush in and scare the **** out of people, therefore distracting them for a moment, and allowing my team to rush in right after me. Half the time, doing so I kill about 1/2 the targets I shoot at (hit detection is making it worse), and get assists on the rest.
3: Actually, the only reason why I and many other pilots hate the small turrets is because they are quite ****. But wait, you don't know that because you don't use them or is a pilot either . Making them better would have us instead of running from people, driving towards them, as good turrets=more wp's. And to clear it up, it's not their DPS; it's the fact that most of the time, it misses, even with the sight right on target.
4: Wait, I'm confused. A swarmer or FGer doesn't have to have someone else aim and shoot their gun. What, you want them to be a two man team too?
5: We don't treat them like dropsuits. You just think we do. You clearly don't understand our problems, and when we say what we want, you and other scrubs say, "No, that's stupid." Or don't comment, when a lot of those said ideas are good. But then you go right around and say that you want us basically gimped without a idiot or a person taken off the board, and when we say no, you claim that we are unfair, and that we are just being selfish. You just want us to be further gimped. Be quiet. |
Old Bstard
The Walking Targets
8
|
Posted - 2013.09.21 23:56:00 -
[120] - Quote
ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:1)driver drives and operates front turret and tanking modules
2)main gunner operates main turret and turret modules.
3)top gunner is exposed out of the top turret like on an lav.
double tank ehp due to complexity of new tank controls. no more solo tanking. add in complete lock out on tanks by the owner. when he/she calls it in it is locked completely until he/she unlocks it for crew or it is hacked by the enemy. this allows them to select the position in the tank they want. they can also unlock for squad only or free for all.
add in climbing in and out of vehicles to commit people to the tank crew and not just instant hitch a ride or hide.
vehicle views would have to be tweaked slightly.
driver would get a front view screen only which incorporates his /hers forward turret.
main gunner would have full allround view as the tank driver currently gets while not in turret view. this comes at the expense of having your head out the top of the turret. when in turret mode you are no longer exposed but have only the turret zoom view.
the top gunner is always exposed but has an extended view of the area around the tank. his turret would have a forward shield for shield tanks and an arm shield for arm tanks. he is completely protected from the direction his turret is facing..
the full crew makes the tank very effective when they work together. if 1 is taken out then this effectiveness is reduced. when the tank is in full combat mode then the top gunner is the general allround eyes. if he is taken out then its doen to the main gunner who is now at a reduced visual effectiveness.
this basicly allows players to disable tanks without actually needing to destroy them Obviously not a tanker. |
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