Love the testing.

Love the music.

Love the dropship.

Love the LAV barrel roll.

+1

First, thanks for putting the time/effort to test, edit and upload this.

I think the video clearly shows that the magnetism is limited to fairly short distances. My hope is that the design intent here is to discourage the chop strafing tactic. Trying to hit someone who is spastically maneuvering around is not fun, it's annoying and obnoxious. People don't evade fire this way in real life combat, and I hate seeing in games. One of DUST's greatest aspects is the fear of loss of your expensive suit leads to gameplay that is much more similar to real life. There's a tension between wanting to complete the objective, but not wanting to be killed in the process: risk vs. reward, duty vs. survival. Chop strafing and bunny hopping destroy this illusion, as do evasive rambo players who can take out several players while dodging fire. This isn't "hardcore," is evidence that things were broken.

Ultimately, the most important aspect of AA is if it helps retain new players significantly better than before. DUST needs to grow by a couple orders of magnitude to have much of a future (and for us to see all of the amazing ideas CCP has for this game become reality), and that's not going to happen if new players aren't sticking around. AA is in-line with industry standards (if not weaker), and consequently will match new players' (and game reviewers') expectations for how the aiming experience on a console should feel.

I do agree that the TTK has become too low, and the best suggestion I've heard to fix it (and not reverting to chop strafing/bunny hopping) is to reduce all weapon damage by the 10% that was added at the uprising launch. Some weapons will need to be buffed back some, but that can be handled on a case-by-case basis. This will result in module choices having a greater impact on gameplay. Also scouts need a speed buff so it's easier to break AA, but still prevents chop-strafing tactics.

Since 1.4 matches have been the best I've ever played in DUST so far. They tend to play out more realistically to how a real firefight would, there are much fewer 1-sided battles and less proto-stomping in general. I've been getting a few more kills per match and dieing significantly more than before. Combat feels more tactical, with cover being more important than ever before.

I realize that players at the highest levels want to be rewarded for skill more. I have proposed a compromise solution that I think is fair to them, but still keeps gameplay fun for the other 75% of us. AA should have 3 settings [Standard] which is how things are now, [Weak] which has the effects reduced, and possibly 0 magnetism, and [Off]. [Standard ] is available only in pub matches (which are in highsec and has been stated by CCP that they want to be friendly for everyone); it's not available in FW or PC. [Weak] is available everywhere, and conveys a small SP bonus that won't count towards the SP cap (maybe 2%). [Off] is obviously available everywhere and it provides an even better SP bonus (say 10%). This seems like a very reasonable compromise that won't turn off new players, still gives vets who like AA the option, and rewards the most elite players the most. It also means that to compete at the highest levels (i.e. FW & PC) you need to be a better shot.

Gotta admit the lav barrell roll was pretty pro.

First, thanks for putting the time/effort to test, edit and upload this.

I think the video clearly shows that the magnetism is limited to fairly short distances. My hope is that the design intent here is to discourage the chop strafing tactic. Trying to hit someone who is spastically maneuvering around is not fun, it's annoying and obnoxious. People don't evade fire this way in real life combat, and I hate seeing in games. One of DUST's greatest aspects is the fear of loss of your expensive suit leads to gameplay that is much more similar to real life. There's a tension between wanting to complete the objective, but not wanting to be killed in the process: risk vs. reward, duty vs. survival. Chop strafing and bunny hopping destroy this illusion, as do evasive rambo players who can take out several players while dodging fire. This isn't "hardcore," is evidence that things were broken.

Ultimately, the most important aspect of AA is if it helps retain new players significantly better than before. DUST needs to grow by a couple orders of magnitude to have much of a future (and for us to see all of the amazing ideas CCP has for this game become reality), and that's not going to happen if new players aren't sticking around. AA is in-line with industry standards (if not weaker), and consequently will match new players' (and game reviewers') expectations for how the aiming experience on a console should feel.

I do agree that the TTK has become too low, and the best suggestion I've heard to fix it (and not reverting to chop strafing/bunny hopping) is to reduce all weapon damage by the 10% that was added at the uprising launch. Some weapons will need to be buffed back some, but that can be handled on a case-by-case basis. This will result in module choices having a greater impact on gameplay. Also scouts need a speed buff so it's easier to break AA, but still prevents chop-strafing tactics.

Since 1.4 matches have been the best I've ever played in DUST so far. They tend to play out more realistically to how a real firefight would, there are much fewer 1-sided battles and less proto-stomping in general. I've been getting a few more kills per match and dieing significantly more than before. Combat feels more tactical, with cover being more important than ever before.

I realize that players at the highest levels want to be rewarded for skill more. I have proposed a compromise solution that I think is fair to them, but still keeps gameplay fun for the other 75% of us. AA should have 3 settings [Standard] which is how things are now, [Weak] which has the effects reduced, and possibly 0 magnetism, and [Off]. [Standard ] is available only in pub matches (which are in highsec and has been stated by CCP that they want to be friendly for everyone); it's not available in FW or PC. [Weak] is available everywhere, and conveys a small SP bonus that won't count towards the SP cap (maybe 2%). [Off] is obviously available everywhere and it provides an even better SP bonus (say 10%). This seems like a very reasonable compromise that won't turn off new players, still gives vets who like AA the option, and rewards the most elite players the most. It also means that to compete at the highest levels (i.e. FW & PC) you need to be a better shot.

I'd like to see somebody post a video of them playing with aim assist and actually hitting most shots.

As a mouse user, I'd have no reason not to join the "nerf AA" crowd if I could actually believe that it's OP. But without seeing it with my own eyes, I just can't.

My impression is that people are not upset because aim assist is too powerful, but because it raises the minimum skill, which means that there are less really bad players to dominate. This is understandable, because getting some skill and dominating those who don't have any is one of the more rewarding elements of multiplayer games.

The TTK argument seems to be a bit of a smokescreen. There've been good aimers before, and TTK shouldn't be any different on the highest level of skill. The change to strafe speed (and some hit detection fixes) certainly made a big difference, but mixing up the discussion about TTK and aim assist does not seem right to me.

because some of us prefer a controller and shouldn't be penalized for it?

Proto pub stomp alone? Pfffff fail hard, funny never seen any of you do it alone. Uninstall.......?

There's competitive edge and then there's utility in using prototype or complex. The current TTK severely limits the kind of fittings a player can use, making any SP invested in modules like armor reppers, shield energizers/rechargers, and shield regulators near useless. Just carrying top end equipment is more of a liability when you can get gunned down without the dignity to evade or fight back. If things stay the way they are, then there needs to be some extreme levels of re-balancing to compensate or players should get refunded for the SP they've currently wasted in the modules I mentioned above. As for me, I won't be using any proto equipment because 9/10, I'm not going to live long enough to have a chance to use it when this game has been reduced to a turn-based CoD.

for once we agree... the barrel role was tight

ive done this...mind you by complete accident, in triplicate

Questions, mostly @Spec Ops and @Big Popa (and others to think about):


1) If not touching controls, the AA tracks target slighty? Correct?


2) If tracking by your control method, the AA is still in effect and adds to your manual aiming? Correct?


3) If you are manually tracking with DS3 controller, the AA still assists and will not shut down? Correct?


4) If you are manually tracking with MKB - what will AA do? Turn itself off or continue tracking?
Remember that both DS3 and MKB are BOTH active in dust and you can use both at the same time (even hybrid control which is a good option)

Sorry for late reply kero -

1) yes
2) yes
3) yes
4) I don't know. Might have to look into it

I use mouse/controller combo and have found if aim assist is on it sometimes makes my crosshair go up and to the right randomly and almost violently, another corp member had the same experience and we had to turn AA off. I assume the AA was trying to track but got confused and didn't know what to do though im not really sure. May not happen if your using a keyboard as no input is going through the controller then.

I use mouse/controller combo and have found if aim assist is on it sometimes makes my crosshair go up and to the right randomly and almost violently, another corp member had the same experience and we had to turn AA off. I assume the AA was trying to track but got confused and didn't know what to do though im not really sure. May not happen if your using a keyboard as no input is going through the controller then.

real life combat people cant take multiple rounds with complete indifferenceGǪ

GǪI think you are looking for a cover based twitch shooter, which is not what this game presented its self as which is why a lot of vets are fighting the change because, they invested a lot of time playing this game when it was so broken it was largely unplayable, because they liked what this game was promising to be, but this level of AA has taken it the exact opposite direction.

as far as proto stomping goes........ if a guy or even a couple of squads are red lining you they would have done it with out proto gear, proto stomping isn't because of the gear but due to skill of the player or the presence of good squads. If we had better match making, or some sort of bleed off valve for the top 10% of players and a optional safe place for the bottom 30% this would be a none issue.

But strong AA is not the way, Its a **** crutch, that teaches you bad habits and frankly will leave you at a lower level of potential play. But I guess how dare we say any one is bad at something now days. Instead we have to create a system that allows people that cant hit the broad side of a barn, to land enough shots to break that 0-10000 loss streak. We have to pay those people that would rather hide in the red line, because they cant actually play in an area where they could actually get shot. Mean while the sniper that plays on the ground with his team defending multiple objectives at once, and the crack shot that can head shot any one with any weapon in under a second find that all the skills they have been honing are meaningless because they could have sat on their asses and and gotten all the funding and skills they needed given to them. I mean what incentive do they have to be good, or hell to even play anymore..... but thats all right, all that matters is that every one is a winner, and can achieve anything they want with out putting any effort in, because why would any one want to earn what they get.

also tell me when you find a way to prevent people with a 5sec ttl, from chop strafing, I can tell you that short of making them the size of the broad side of a barn you can't when you have a long ttl you get people pressing hard and doing every thing they can not to get shot while they press. the ONLY time cover based shooting works is when every weapon in the game has a high alpha or effective high alpha.

Actually the AA is stronger in this game than in most FPS games I have played......MAG/BF3/KZ3 (if it even had any I cant remember)/Socom 4 (TPS)

Look at this videos from other shooters from console, some of them are even more dramatic then in Dust.
In a Shooter with vehicles and other variable the aim assist needs to be stronger to compensate. In Dust we have even Kb/M user and to compensate THAT, you need to have a even stronger aim assist, or even a auto aim.
Here some Videos.

Battlefield 3
http://youtu.be/r9dLKS6Ndcs

Borderlands 2
http://youtu.be/k8F04HKUYag

CoD Black Ops 2
http://youtu.be/2VHlBwFp3xM

Halo 4 (you should see this, you would not believe it otherwise.)
http://youtu.be/ShQunpA7LI8

Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2
http://youtu.be/qaom3cdZv1c

lol more proof AA is not that bad...

seriously, with this vid all you did was show how AA works, but you did it purley under test circumstances.

in a real battle, the enemy and you wont be moving like that, real battles are much more frantic.

show AA being that overt in a live fire, real battle scenario, instead of with your buddies manipulating the mechanics to prove a point...

Nice video man, laughed pretty hard at that dropship for some reason but on topic, the aim assist is too strong. We never had it before and I don't think we need it now, the 2 arguments I have seen are:

other games have it

need to compete with Kb/m

I don't see why we need it here if other games have it, we have never needed it before and if the other games have it then play them instead. As far as the dualshock vs kb/m goes ill say this, im competent with both and the only real advantage I get with the mouse over the dualshock is how accurate I throw grenades and forge gunning. Forge gunning is super easy with the mouse.

just my 2 isk....

Actually the AA is stronger in this game than in most FPS games I have played......MAG/BF3/KZ3 (if it even had any I cant remember)/Socom 4 (TPS)

actually the aim assist in this game is weaker than most shooters but thats only because the controls are so clunky. Chrome system was just fine.