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Seymor Krelborn
DUST University
Ivy League
826
   |
Posted - 2013.09.10 14:51:00 -
[1] - Quote
lol more proof AA is not that bad...
seriously, with this vid all you did was show how AA works, but you did it purley under test circumstances.
in a real battle, the enemy and you wont be moving like that, real battles are much more frantic.
show AA being that overt in a live fire, real battle scenario, instead of with your buddies manipulating the mechanics to prove a point... |
Seymor Krelborn
DUST University
Ivy League
826
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 14:55:00 -
[2] - Quote
Banning Hammer wrote:Actually, now i looking at it carefully, without playing the game myself. It does looks a bit like a "Mouse Emulator" for the PS3, i thought this game already supported the mouse CCP.  Why Emulate the mouse, when you can actually use it ?
because some of us prefer a controller and shouldn't be penalized for it? |
Seymor Krelborn
DUST University
Ivy League
827
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 15:45:00 -
[3] - Quote
this video highlights improved hit detection and larger hitboxes...it doesn't show the overt magnetism of AA the QQers exaggerate... |
Seymor Krelborn
DUST University
Ivy League
827
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 15:50:00 -
[4] - Quote
Nemo Bluntz wrote:Seymor Krelborn wrote:because some of us prefer a controller and feel like having a huge advantage of M/KB is 'balance'? im a sad panda so I changed your quote , not necessarily for you, but for what a lot of pro-AA pad players sound like.
what you did was make me look like English is my second language...ill repeat...
kb/m users have a huge advantage over controller users... AA levels the ground. |
Seymor Krelborn
DUST University
Ivy League
827
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 15:56:00 -
[5] - Quote
Nemo Bluntz wrote:Seymor Krelborn wrote:kb/m users have a huge advantage over controller users... AA levels the ground. Gotta ask. Have you tried m/kb since Uprising dropped? Or do you just think that its sooooo amazing?
I don't use it...I know many who do, and the consensus is, without getting into detail, it works well...
I can also make the logical conclusion that if it was terrible, no one would use kb/m. |
Seymor Krelborn
DUST University
Ivy League
830
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 17:38:00 -
[6] - Quote
semperfi1999 wrote:Seymor Krelborn wrote:Nemo Bluntz wrote:Seymor Krelborn wrote:because some of us prefer a controller and feel like having a huge advantage of M/KB is 'balance'? Went ahead and fixed that, not necessarily for you, but for what a lot of pro-AA pad players sound like. what you did was make me look like English is my second language...ill repeat... kb/m users have a huge advantage over controller users... AA levels the ground. Yes because all of the top players are KBM users The vast majority of top players are DS3 users.
show me statistic proof of this |
Seymor Krelborn
DUST University
Ivy League
830
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 17:46:00 -
[7] - Quote
Spec Ops Cipher wrote:Jack McReady wrote:Banning Hammer wrote:
With that context, can you see why some people are anti-AA, at least to this extent, in a 'high health' shooter?
and why would this be different without AA? there was aim assist before in dust, even in close beta and no one ever complained about it. what most people dont get is that there were significant changes to hit detection and movements speeds and a 10% dmg buff over the course of the dust development. those changes just stacked up to a very low TTK. AA is just the tip of iceberg and actually had the least impact, you still have to aim by yourself but you shots now actually connect. I disagree. People went from hitting 40-50% of shots to 80-90% overnight. A lot of what you have being saying in this thread is blatant lies, such as aim assist not working when moving, aim assist not working when you try to aim... I sincerely hope you are not in a position of power at Dust Uni - you shouldn't be.
when we we post in GD we represent ourselves not the corp...stay on topic and don't try to drag the university into the AA QQ.
|
Seymor Krelborn
DUST University
Ivy League
830
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 17:55:00 -
[8] - Quote
Autoaim Bot514 wrote:Seymor Krelborn wrote:Nemo Bluntz wrote:Seymor Krelborn wrote:because some of us prefer a controller and feel like having a huge advantage of M/KB is 'balance'? im a sad panda so I changed your quote , not necessarily for you, but for what a lot of pro-AA pad players sound like. what you did was make me look like English is my second language...ill repeat... kb/m users have a huge advantage over controller users... AA levels the ground. Except kbm doesn't have raw input, it emulates ds3. Protoman didn't need scrub excuses to own with ds3.
the bottom line is that the game is more brutal and competitive now....I know I die a lot more now, I think that's good.
and honestly this was the best move against stomping, it surpasses any matchmaking fix...
why are people really against a mechanic that levels the playing field, I mean we all have this advantage...awesome aimers are even more awesome and bad aimers are now better....
overall the game feels tighter and combat is more bloody, and more people who try dust for the 1st time will keep playing...
so seriously give me good reasons why AA and the hit detection fix are bad.
I think I just gave good reasons why its good... |
Seymor Krelborn
DUST University
Ivy League
830
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 17:58:00 -
[9] - Quote
Autoaim Bot514 wrote:Seymor Krelborn wrote:Spec Ops Cipher wrote:Jack McReady wrote:Banning Hammer wrote:
With that context, can you see why some people are anti-AA, at least to this extent, in a 'high health' shooter?
and why would this be different without AA? there was aim assist before in dust, even in close beta and no one ever complained about it. what most people dont get is that there were significant changes to hit detection and movements speeds and a 10% dmg buff over the course of the dust development. those changes just stacked up to a very low TTK. AA is just the tip of iceberg and actually had the least impact, you still have to aim by yourself but you shots now actually connect. I disagree. People went from hitting 40-50% of shots to 80-90% overnight. A lot of what you have being saying in this thread is blatant lies, such as aim assist not working when moving, aim assist not working when you try to aim... I sincerely hope you are not in a position of power at Dust Uni - you shouldn't be. when we we post in GD we represent ourselves not the corp...stay on topic and don't try to drag the university into the AA QQ. Scrub answer from scrubcorp
+1 |
Seymor Krelborn
DUST University
Ivy League
831
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 18:11:00 -
[10] - Quote
Autoaim Bot514 wrote:Seymor Krelborn wrote:Nemo Bluntz wrote:[quote=Seymor Krelborn]because some of us prefer a controller and feel like having a huge advantage of M/KB is 'balance'? the bottom line is that the game is more brutal and competitive now....I know I die a lot more now, I think that's good. and honestly this was the best move against stomping, it surpasses any matchmaking fix... why are people really against a mechanic that levels the playing field, I mean we all have this advantage...awesome aimers are even more awesome and bad aimers are now better.... overall the game feels tighter and combat is more bloody, and more people who try dust for the 1st time will keep playing... so seriously give me good reasons why AA and the hit detection fix are bad. I think I just gave good reasons why its good... Lowers time to kill - devaluing SP Discourages tactical modules on suits, its all EHP fights now. Scouts are getting murdered left right and centre. They used to have a chance in 1 v1's, now they don't. Heavies are having a rough time too, once they start being hit, it doesn't stop. The extra HP only goes so far.
lower TTK is a good thing, and only true if you aren't using cover
tac mods on suits...um... active scanner, huge advantage, as well as dampners...
scouts who try the old run up to your face tactic, yes no chance for them... but that was not their intended role to begin with
heavies are not frontline troops, they are area defenders/ground holders, so yes if they aren't doing that job of course they get cut to ribbons
this is a team tactics FPS, know your role, what you describe are the results of Rambo tactics...theres no place for that here. |
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Seymor Krelborn
DUST University
Ivy League
831
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 18:14:00 -
[11] - Quote
semperfi1999 wrote:Seymor Krelborn wrote:Nemo Bluntz wrote:[quote=Seymor Krelborn] Yes because all of the top players are KBM users The vast majority of top players are DS3 users. show me statistic proof of this You want statistic proof of this? Just so that you can then respond with a X %'s of statistics are made up like you did before? Aldin....uses DS3, Protoman used DS3, Zitro brothers used DS3's, Pdiggy uses DS3, bear uses DS3, and that is just to name a few off the top of my head of current/past players who used DS3 and were also considered to be some of the best players in Dust. Regynum is the only person I know who fits in this category and uses a KBM.
funny that I don't see them QQing....
this is also just naming names... not statistic proof... |
Seymor Krelborn
DUST University
Ivy League
831
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 18:19:00 -
[12] - Quote
Spec Ops Cipher wrote:Seymor Krelborn wrote:
this is a team tactics FPS, know your role, what you describe are the results of Rambo tactics...theres no place for that here.
Wrong. Its a MMOFPS. In that order. It isn't battlefield, and its intended to be a HTTK game. You're trying to make it into a low time to kill game.
I agree its mmo but its also tactical...
if you deny that, then your playing wrong... |
Seymor Krelborn
DUST University
Ivy League
831
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 18:22:00 -
[13] - Quote
semperfi1999 wrote:Seymor Krelborn wrote:Nemo Bluntz wrote:[quote=Seymor Krelborn]
You want statistic proof of this? Just so that you can then respond with a X %'s of statistics are made up like you did before? Aldin....uses DS3, Protoman used DS3, Zitro brothers used DS3's, Pdiggy uses DS3, bear uses DS3, and that is just to name a few off the top of my head of current/past players who used DS3 and were also considered to be some of the best players in Dust.
Regynum is the only person I know who fits in this category and uses a KBM. funny that I don't see them QQing.... Thats because Protoman, Zitros, Pdiggy, and bear have all left because of how bad the game is. Aldin still plays and I do believe he commented on the rediculousness of AA but he doesnt psot on the forums very often.
then they don't count.. also this is just naming names...not statistical proof of your assertions. |
Seymor Krelborn
DUST University
Ivy League
832
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 18:29:00 -
[14] - Quote
Spec Ops Cipher wrote:Seymor Krelborn wrote:Spec Ops Cipher wrote:Seymor Krelborn wrote:
this is a team tactics FPS, know your role, what you describe are the results of Rambo tactics...theres no place for that here.
Wrong. Its a MMOFPS. In that order. It isn't battlefield, and its intended to be a HTTK game. You're trying to make it into a low time to kill game. I agree its mmo but its also tactical... if you deny that, then your playing wrong... Of course its tactical, but it was designed to be MMO/FPS. A game where its worth aiming for the head in a firefight, because it will lower the time it takes to kill the enemy from 4s to 2s. A game where choices and progression are meaningful, and worthwhile, and it is being spoiled by auto-aim.
then youre splitting hairs if you agree its tactical.
the role you describe that charges in is called frontline assault... not scout not heavies...
medium suits usually with an AR... their role is to charge in, which brings me back to my original point that Rambo tactics are the result of high deaths in scouts and heavies... they aren't preforming their role correctly, or they are being over run and not acting accordingly...
I still haven't heard a good reason why the new mechanics are bad...
tell me why they are personally bad for you. |
Seymor Krelborn
DUST University
Ivy League
832
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 18:35:00 -
[15] - Quote
Seymor Krelborn wrote:semperfi1999 wrote:Seymor Krelborn wrote:Nemo Bluntz wrote:[quote=Seymor Krelborn]
funny that I don't see them QQing.... Thats because Protoman, Zitros, Pdiggy, and bear have all left because of how bad the game is. Aldin still plays and I do believe he commented on the rediculousness of AA but he doesnt psot on the forums very often. then they don't count.. also this is just naming names...not statistical proof of your assertions. Yes they dont count because you dont want them to count. Nope not going to consider anyone who is good if they dont play on a daily basis. And your still asking for statistical proof (impossible to obtain in a double blind study on this game) so that you can then state that statistics are made up. Your an idiot.
it is illogical to count people who don't play.... you made the initial assertion most good players use DS3 without having any true knowledge of this, so who's the idiot?
and shame on you for resorting to personal attacks... it shows that you are frustrated and have no real argument... I expected more from you.
you need to compose yourself. |
Seymor Krelborn
DUST University
Ivy League
832
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 18:37:00 -
[16] - Quote
semperfi1999 wrote:Nemo Bluntz wrote:Seymor Krelborn wrote:I still haven't heard a good reason why the new mechanics are bad...
And now I'm convinced that you are barely even reading any posts. Holy ****. Its called ignorance....Dust Uni is really good at this.
what im saying is the posts I have read (which are a lot give no good reasons in my opinion, or the opinion of many others who laugh at the QQ) |
Seymor Krelborn
DUST University
Ivy League
834
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 18:45:00 -
[17] - Quote
Beren Hurin wrote:I'm beginning to appreciate how people think they can continue to play the exact same way after significant changes and expect to do well. Especially when you can see this video, and see that strafing wider would help, or sprinting one way, stopping and shooting, and sprinting some more would be better than the tight strafing that people are used to.
the problem is the so called elite vets think this is their game, and aren't very good at adaptation... |
Seymor Krelborn
DUST University
Ivy League
836
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 18:51:00 -
[18] - Quote
semperfi1999 wrote:Seymor Krelborn wrote:Spec Ops Cipher wrote:Jack McReady wrote:Banning Hammer wrote:
With that context, can you see why some people are anti-AA, at least to this extent, in a 'high health' shooter?
and why would this be different without AA? there was aim assist before in dust, even in close beta and no one ever complained about it. what most people dont get is that there were significant changes to hit detection and movements speeds and a 10% dmg buff over the course of the dust development. those changes just stacked up to a very low TTK. AA is just the tip of iceberg and actually had the least impact, you still have to aim by yourself but you shots now actually connect. I disagree. People went from hitting 40-50% of shots to 80-90% overnight. A lot of what you have being saying in this thread is blatant lies, such as aim assist not working when moving, aim assist not working when you try to aim... I sincerely hope you are not in a position of power at Dust Uni - you shouldn't be. when we we post in GD we represent ourselves not the corp...stay on topic and don't try to drag the university into the AA QQ. THis is rich comming from (at least a corp) who claimed that a post from an imperfect should be attributed to all of the imperfects because you represent your corp.........
I don't think the corp ever said this... a member may have... but that was his/her opinion... not the corps. |
Seymor Krelborn
DUST University
Ivy League
837
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 19:09:00 -
[19] - Quote
Nemo Bluntz wrote:Seymor Krelborn wrote:
the problem is the so called elite vets think this is their game, and aren't very good at adaptation...
The "elite vets" are the ones who have been playing the longest, and have given CCP the most amount of money thus far. Having such a dramatic core change to a game they've been playing for months is bound to get some backlash. Also, there is no "adaption." There's no "well now do this! problem solved". The adaption you speak of is "have more health and get the first shot off". Lol, "adaption."
look I have spent A LOT of money on this game, and EVE. I think the issue here is not realizing that CCP tends to drastically change their games from build to build, if you play eve you understand this.
this game is a work in progress and it will be vastly different a year from now from what it is today...
the lesson here is don't get comfortable.
I read your reasons for why you think its a bad change, but your reasons come from a perspective of "you changed the way my game works"... its not yours, or mine and lets face it the way it was wasn't winning any awards...and they have a long way to go still.
the main reason why I think the new aim mechanics are good is because it has made the game more competitive and brutal...new players can jump in and be useful and feel powerful, old vets can adapt and use their knowledge of maps, and vast sp to still gain an edge.
so you cant proto stomp anymore... big deal...was that such a good thing for the game?... so you die quicker, well, so does everyone else...this game has been complained about constantly and I personally believe 1.4 is a turning point... no its not perfect, yes it needs tweaking, but the best reasons the anti AA people have come up with for turning it off is they die quicker, scrubs can aim now, and proto isn't worth using in a pub....to me these sound like all good reasons to keep it.
this is coming from someone who before 1.4 had his best game at 41/9 with a shotty and REs and an average game of 15-20/6-10 only using BP fits and spent over 400$ on dust alone. now my average game is 12/10 AND im using proto half the time just to hold ground or advance a point before switching back to BPs... its effing brutal and I like it |
Seymor Krelborn
DUST University
Ivy League
837
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 19:13:00 -
[20] - Quote
semperfi1999 wrote:Seymor Krelborn wrote:
I don't think the corp ever said this... a member may have... but that was his/her opinion... not the corps.
Not just your members...your (I assume) directors said this all the time. I assume they were your directors because they are people who have been with Dust U for a very very long time. In fact your corp along with Zion and STB were the worst at constantly stating that when you post your representing your corp. There were others too but people from those 3 corps were the worst.
well when it comes to being racist or offensive, I know we make our corp look bad and its not tolerated, but other than that if Kevall longstride isn't saying it than its just a members opinion. |
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Seymor Krelborn
DUST University
Ivy League
837
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 19:22:00 -
[21] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:Seymor Krelborn wrote:Nemo Bluntz wrote:Seymor Krelborn wrote:
the problem is the so called elite vets think this is their game, and aren't very good at adaptation...
The "elite vets" are the ones who have been playing the longest, and have given CCP the most amount of money thus far. Having such a dramatic core change to a game they've been playing for months is bound to get some backlash. Also, there is no "adaption." There's no "well now do this! problem solved". The adaption you speak of is "have more health and get the first shot off". Lol, "adaption." look I have spent A LOT of money on this game, and EVE. I think the issue here is not realizing that CCP tends to drastically change their games from build to build, if you play eve you understand this. this game is a work in progress and it will be vastly different a year from now from what it is today... the lesson here is don't get comfortable. I read your reasons for why you think its a bad change, but your reasons come from a perspective of "you changed the way my game works"... its not yours, or mine and lets face it the way it was wasn't winning any awards...and they have a long way to go still. the main reason why I think the new aim mechanics are good is because it has made the game more competitive and brutal...new players can jump in and be useful and feel powerful, old vets can adapt and use their knowledge of maps, and vast sp to still gain an edge. so you cant proto stomp anymore... big deal...was that such a good thing for the game?... so you die quicker, well, so does everyone else...this game has been complained about constantly and I personally believe 1.4 is a turning point... no its not perfect, yes it needs tweaking, but the best reasons the anti AA people have come up with for turning it off is they die quicker, scrubs can aim now, and proto isn't worth using in a pub....to me these sound like all good reasons to keep it. this is coming from someone who before 1.4 had his best game at 41/9 with a shotty and REs and an average game of 15-20/6-10 only using BP fits and spent over 400$ on dust alone. now my average game is 12/10 AND im using proto half the time just to hold ground or advance a point before switching back to BPs... its effing brutal and I like it I stopped reading when you tried o defend aim assist as a balancing mechanic for new players. With that logic, a starter frigate should be allowed to shoot down a Titan in EVE.
lol a t2 frig with max skills couldn't down a titan... bad analogy |
Seymor Krelborn
DUST University
Ivy League
841
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 23:04:00 -
[22] - Quote
Shotty GoBang wrote:@Cipher:
+1 for your experiment. And the laughs (who the heck was that DS pilot!?).
@Seymor:
Demanding statistical evidence is a 'bit of an underhanded tactic. Only CCP has access to datasets requisite in meeting such a demand. If I had access to CCP's logs, these are the things I'd look for first:
1) Change in DPS from 1.0 to 1.4, by weapon type.
2) Change in TTK from 1.0 to 1.4, by weapon type.
3) Change in Accuracy from 1.0 to 1.4, by weapon type.
4) Current engagement outcomes, by weapon type.
5) Current engagement outcomes, by engagement range.
6) Current weapon usage statistics in Pubs.
7) Current weapon usage statistics in PC.
^ I suspect that the above queries would support a frequently voiced concern. A concern in that the aim-assisted automatic assault rifle is consistently outperforming every other weapon in every role and environment. Such findings -- should tye exist -- would be clear indication of imbalance. Even so, causality remains to be proven.
So is AA to blame?
Are ARs to blame?
Are Aim-Assisted ARs to blame?
Who knows. But even without statistics in-hand, one may safely hypothesize through repeated observation...
Today, "winning in Dust" has less to do with tactics and more to do running a medium-frame and an assault rifle. And enabling Aim Assist, of course. Playing smart is indeed effective, but doing so without the right gear is to operate at substantial disadvantage.
- Shotty GoBang
~ 18M Shotgun Scout
PS: Big fan of the Uni's efforts in uptraining our newcomers, by the way. Keep up the good work. o7
good post...I don't fully agree with a med suit/AR being a win button, but as a fellow shotgunner I understand your sentiment (ive hung mine up for an AR till they fix em...prior to 1.4 mind you)
I only brought the stat thing up because he was trying to assert he had some knowledge that most good players use a controller... id like to know how he knows this w/out statistics... |
Seymor Krelborn
DUST University
Ivy League
846
|
Posted - 2013.09.11 03:28:00 -
[23] - Quote
semperfi1999 wrote:Disturbingly Bored wrote:Spec Ops Cipher wrote:All suits track and are tracked equally well. Assault Rifle tracks to 60m Scambler Rifle tracks to 60m HMG tracks to 50m SMG tracks to 30m Shotgun tracks to 16m Scrambler Pistol tracks to 55m! Mass drivers, forge guns, flaylocks and plasma cannons do not track. With thanks to Scat Mania and Big Popa Smurff Highlights - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-qZ4LG8lGY Love the testing. Love the music. Love the dropship. Love the LAV barrel roll. +1 Gotta admit the lav barrell roll was pretty pro.
for once we agree... the barrel role was tight
ive done this...mind you by complete accident, in triplicate |
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