Okay okay im sure everyone here will spew the comment "those are two seperate dev teams" but who gives a Fahk. Why would CCP release another fail when they havent even fixed Dust?

How do you feel? Do you think they should put Valkyrie on hold untill Dust is fixed? Maybe they should have devoted that 20% employees (google time) to dust instead of working on their own projects just an idea.

Oh well it looks like Xbirth and Star citizen will be getting my subs once they are released.

Nope. Because DUST is dead anyway. They've given up on it and are only giving small updates to keep us quiet. Dead game is dead.

What's worse, Dust being dead, or you posting on a dead forum?

Okay okay im sure everyone here will spew the comment "those are two seperate dev teams" but who gives a Fahk. Why would CCP release another fail when they havent even fixed Dust?

How do you feel? Do you think they should put Valkyrie on hold untill Dust is fixed? Maybe they should have devoted that 20% employees (google time) to dust instead of working on their own projects just an idea.

Oh well it looks like Xbirth and Star citizen will be getting my subs once they are released.

Okay okay im sure everyone here will spew the comment "those are two seperate dev teams" but who gives a Fahk. Why would CCP release another fail when they havent even fixed Dust?

EvE VR is CCPs insurance policy.

Elite and Star Citizen could very well kill EvE.

This may or may not happen...but it is a definite possibility.

The biggest feature these games have over EvE is real time cockpit combat simulation.

EvE VR is CCPs insurance policy.

...

I am very much looking forward to Elite and Star Citizen...i want this kind of game more then Dust more then EvE more then any game i can see on the horizon.

As a consumer the fact that CCP is putting up some competition is great in my opinion.

...

Also Dust is killing itself all by itself. And honestly throwing employees at it will not save it. In fact i think Dust could be greatly improved if one person or a small core group (like 3 people) were put in charge and allowed to make their vision....right now Dust feels like it is built by committee and is trying to do everything...and ending up being thin mud as a result.

Star Trek Online was the EVE killer.

Then Star Wars: The Old Republic was the EVE killer.

And that's only counting the Sci-Fi games. Nothing is going to kill EVE, man. No point in even speculating about it.


Also, can someone please give me a reasonable and informed explanation as to why EVE: Valkyrie existing as a project means that either Dust is now on the "back burner", or that it is guaranteed to be bad "just like Dust"?

Star Trek Online was the EVE killer.

Then Star Wars: The Old Republic was the EVE killer.

And that's only counting the Sci-Fi games. Nothing is going to kill EVE, man. No point in even speculating about it.


Also, can someone please give me a reasonable and informed explanation as to why EVE: Valkyrie existing as a project means that either Dust is now on the "back burner", or that it is guaranteed to be bad "just like Dust"?

SWTOR = 6x as fun

lolno.

Okay okay im sure everyone here will spew the comment "those are two seperate dev teams" but who gives a Fahk. Why would CCP release another fail when they havent even fixed Dust?

How do you feel? Do you think they should put Valkyrie on hold untill Dust is fixed? Maybe they should have devoted that 20% employees (google time) to dust instead of working on their own projects just an idea.

Oh well it looks like Xbirth and Star citizen will be getting my subs once they are released.

Absolutely disagree. Individual developer competency in a particular area should determine who does what. The fact that it's separate devs on a separate project for a different platform in a different location means that devoting their extra time to dust rather than E.V. would likely only delay dust development in the short run trying to bring everyone up to speed. Something they probably don't want to do considering the attitudes here.

E.V. isn't taking anything from dust. If E.V. didn't exist it wouldn't change anything for dust. the only reason to be upset is irrationality.

Star Trek Online was the EVE killer.

Then Star Wars: The Old Republic was the EVE killer.

And that's only counting the Sci-Fi games. Nothing is going to kill EVE, man. No point in even speculating about it.

Because the reaction to EVR by players and the press was so overwhelmingly positive they would have to be stupid not to push the dozen or so people who made it to make a full product and cash in on the hype

"Well just about every gaming publication ever said this was the coolest ******* thing they've ever seen, thanks for your thoughts guys I guess we'll just shelve it and never use the idea again"

If you think CCP is not discussing the competition coming from Star Citizen and Elite in their board meetings then I would like to show you a bridge in NY that i would like to sell you.

If you think CCP is not discussing the competition coming from Star Citizen and Elite in their board meetings then I would like to show you a bridge in NY that i would like to sell you.

Forums aren't dead. They're alive with fanboys trying to defend DUST's grave. It's amusing.

Star Citizen looks cool...but the entire time they describe the game, I think to myself "Eve already does all that". The only exception are that fights are more like TIE fighter and Wing Commander. And even in that respect EVE is catching up.

In short: They seem to wanna do exactly what EVE already does or soon will do...the only difference is, EVE already has thousands of players that make the universe "come alive"...while Star Citizens doesn't have a single user so far.

What will Star Citizen offer that EVE won't when it's released?

*crickets*

Fact is, over the years I've heard tons of "omg, game xyz will be released in a month...it'll destroy EVE...I'm gone". Those people then leave EVE for a few months just to return after a while. Happened so many times, I lost count. I belong in that camp myself, tested tooooons of MMOs over the years including SWTOR. Always ended up coming back to EVE because the "world" just feels more alive with real politics and real consequences.

PS: I hope Star Citizen won't just be a dumbed down version of EVE (in terms of complexity) with Wing Commander fights...would be a massive let down. Part of EVE's attraction is a certain complexity.

Elite and Star Citizen could very well kill EvE.

This may or may not happen...but it is a definite possibility.

The biggest feature these games have over EvE is real time cockpit combat simulation.

EvE VR is CCPs insurance policy.

...

I am very much looking forward to Elite and Star Citizen...i want this kind of game more then Dust more then EvE more then any game i can see on the horizon.

As a consumer the fact that CCP is putting up some competition is great in my opinion.

...

Also Dust is killing itself all by itself. And honestly throwing employees at it will not save it. In fact i think Dust could be greatly improved if one person or a small core group (like 3 people) were put in charge and allowed to make their vision....right now Dust feels like it is built by committee and is trying to do everything...and ending up being thin mud as a result.

Are you mental? I couldn't play that game for 10 minutes without being bored out of my skull. It's World of Warcraft with lightsabers.

Look at this: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=270951&find=unread

The EVE forums are actually excited about this.

Hell, they **** on updates for EVE that turn out to be exactly what the game needed, and they're psyched about this.

It's becoming pretty damn obvious just how pointlessly negative everyone around here is.

Star citizen is primarily a game about having intense dogfights in space. Eve is primarily a game about meta-diplomacy and spreadsheets.

Star citizen is being developed to support the Oculus Rift, which gets ridiculously rave reviews from basically every single reviewer that puts the thing on.

I personally would greatly prefer Star Citizen be a "dumbed down" version of EVE. I don't care about 90% of the things people who play EVE care about, which is why I don't play EVE. I want to fly a spaceship and shoot other guys flying spaceships... and that's something EVE does not offer. Now that CCP is offering a game in which I will be able to fly a spaceship and shoot other guys flying spaceships AND it's being developed for the Rift, I'm interested.

Star Citizen looks cool...but the entire time they describe the game, I think to myself "Eve already does all that". The only exception are that fights are more like TIE fighter and Wing Commander. And even in that respect EVE is catching up.

In short: They seem to wanna do exactly what EVE already does or soon will do...the only difference is, EVE already has thousands of players that make the universe "come alive"...while Star Citizens doesn't have a single user so far.

What will Star Citizen offer that EVE won't when it's released?

*crickets*

Fact is, over the years I've heard tons of "omg, game xyz will be released in a month...it'll destroy EVE...I'm gone". Those people then leave EVE for a few months just to return after a while. Happened so many times, I lost count. I belong in that camp myself, tested tooooons of MMOs over the years including SWTOR. Always ended up coming back to EVE because the "world" just feels more alive with real politics and real consequences.

PS: I hope Star Citizen won't just be a dumbed down version of EVE (in terms of complexity) with Wing Commander fights...would be a massive let down. Part of EVE's attraction is a certain complexity.

while Star Citizens doesn't have a single user so far.

What will Star Citizen offer that EVE won't when it's released?

Star citizen is primarily a game about having intense dogfights in space. Eve is primarily a game about meta-diplomacy and spreadsheets.

Star citizen is being developed to support the Oculus Rift, which gets ridiculously rave reviews from basically every single reviewer that puts the thing on.

I personally would greatly prefer Star Citizen be a "dumbed down" version of EVE. I don't care about 90% of the things people who play EVE care about, which is why I don't play EVE. I want to fly a spaceship and shoot other guys flying spaceships... and that's something EVE does not offer. Now that CCP is offering a game in which I will be able to fly a spaceship and shoot other guys flying spaceships AND it's being developed for the Rift, I'm interested.

Real time space combat.

You do realise EVE will support the Oculus Rift too...right? And it will have dog fights too!

So you get both, complexity of EVE and the more arcade style fun of dogfights. Oh, and a huge existing userbase.

I think you misunderstood me, I said I hope Star Citizen won't become a dumbed down version of Eve...which is exactly what you hope it'll turn out to be it seems.

You can shoot ships and do nothing else. How can you say that EVE isn't about shooting ships. The list of thing I have heard is now complete.

It has 227,466 backers. That is people who have donated without ever playing the game. I think Elite has about 50,000 backers.



Real time space combat. I know why i do not play EvE and that is the reason. EvE is not an unknown game...pretty sure those 227,466 backer have heard about EvE...want to take a guess why they are backing Star Citizen when the major difference between the two is real time space space combat.

Don't play dumb, it's unbecoming of you.

Valkyrie will succeed where Dust has not for one reason and one reason alone:

It's on the correct platform for the development style of the game.

You really can't be saying that the console is not the platform for FPS games can you? When many a gamer complains that most AA titles for consoles this generation are the FPS. It makes you sound as if you are from the "if its not on PC its crap" faction of gamers

Real time? Do you mean it isn't a first person view? It is 100% real time until about 2300 people are in the same system. What does real time mean?

To be honest, Valkyrie looks like they were testing out new ways for EVE to have better interaction with Dust, but grew into what it is now.

It's more that it's turn based rather than not being real time. The poling runs a a far lower rate than in a FPS where you need to know what your opponent is doing thirty times a second. EVE Spaceship combat doesn't need split second response time so CCP can accommodate several hundred ships one server with no lag.

You would notice immediately if DUST were running with the update frequency of EVE. Now build a FP dogfight game and you will need the same update frequency and response time of DUST.

You can't just throw EVR on TQ and expect it to work. That's why DUST has a bunch of battle servers.

To be honest, Valkyrie looks like they were testing out new ways for EVE to have better interaction with Dust, but grew into what it is now.

It's more that it's turn based rather than not being real time. The poling runs a a far lower rate than in a FPS where you need to know what your opponent is doing thirty times a second. EVE Spaceship combat doesn't need split second response time so CCP can accommodate several hundred ships one server with no lag.

You would notice immediately if DUST were running with the update frequency of EVE. Now build a FP dogfight game and you will need the same update frequency and response time of DUST.

You can't just throw EVR on TQ and expect it to work. That's why DUST has a bunch of battle servers.

What does this term mean? As I would interpret it I wouldn't count it as something Eve doesn't have.

Clearly you never had any good interceptor fights ;)

I can't wait for the day when all of it is fully integrated. One world with real consequences and politics...and you can chose to play a FPS, wing commander style space shooter or a complex MMORPG like EVE.

I know it'll be a long time before this is done...but one can dream

It's more that it's turn based rather than not being real time. The poling runs a a far lower rate than in a FPS where you need to know what your opponent is doing thirty times a second. EVE Spaceship combat doesn't need split second response time so CCP can accommodate several hundred ships one server with no lag.

You would notice immediately if DUST were running with the update frequency of EVE. Now build a FP dogfight game and you will need the same update frequency and response time of DUST.

You can't just throw EVR on TQ and expect it to work. That's why DUST has a bunch of battle servers.

You fly the space ship. Not point and click.

Jesus look at the star citizen videos and Elite Videos and EvE VR videos...then look at EvE videos.

If you cannot tell the difference then i cannot help you.

"Turn based" is wholly incorrect, but you are correct about the lowered communications speed. You are still free to act and react as fast as the server and client are configured to allow, and this is completely independent of any action you opponent is taking.

Ok, so your issue is the input method and has nothing to do with "real time combat", got it. It's not that I don't get the differences, it's that your comment completely misrepresented what those differences were. And your own communication should be something you can help, so there goes that excuse.

You are correct. Turn based implies everyone waits while orders are compiled for a specific turn.
I was thinking of it in terms of having perhaps five turns per second* and you miss one if you don't give an order.
That works fine for point and click combat and even allows for TD when the server can't process five turns per second.

*five is just a wildass guess.

Sooo...

You want an argument about miscommunication?

Sorry dude go start another thread I am not interested.

Okay okay im sure everyone here will spew the comment "those are two seperate dev teams" but who gives a Fahk. Why would CCP release another fail when they havent even fixed Dust?

How do you feel? Do you think they should put Valkyrie on hold untill Dust is fixed? Maybe they should have devoted that 20% employees (google time) to dust instead of working on their own projects just an idea.

Oh well it looks like Xbirth and Star citizen will be getting my subs once they are released.

Then yes I can see that being more real time. The concept of time should work closer to eve than to dust because of the high speeds involved. That fighter can't instantaneously change directions at high speed so combat against other pilots will be more turned based like you are talking about because of speeds and distances.

SWTOR = 6x as fun

You are right to a point. Valkyrie ships most likely wouldn't change velocity radically like a dancing merc, but would still have much tighter timing requirements than EVE combat. Imagine two ships flying toward each other and how important it would be to start firing at a precise instant.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=270956&find=unread

People around here embrace this but they say hell no to Star Citizen, the fanboi'ism runs very deep in GD.

Real time space combat. I know why i do not play EvE and that is the reason.

Both EVR and DUST are FP running in real time while EVE is turn based (fast turns until you get to TD, but turns nonetheless).

some startlingly stupid comments in this thread.

those are two separate dev teams, those are two separate dev teams, those are two separate dev teams, those are two separate dev teams, those are two separate dev teams, those are two separate dev teams, those are two separate dev teams, those are two separate dev teams, those are two separate dev teams, those are two separate dev teams, those are two separate dev teams, those are two separate dev teams, those are two separate dev teams, those are two separate dev teams, those are two separate dev teams, those are two separate dev teams, those are two separate dev teams, those are two separate dev teams, those are two separate dev teams, those are two separate dev teams, those are two separate dev teams, those are two separate dev teams, those are two separate dev teams, those are two separate dev teams, those are two separate dev teams, those are two separate dev teams, those are two separate dev teams, those are two separate dev teams, those are two separate dev teams, those are two separate dev teams, those are two separate dev teams, those are two separate dev teams, those are two separate dev teams, those are two separate dev teams, those are two separate dev teams, those are two separate dev teams, those are two separate dev teams, those are two separate dev teams, those are two separate dev teams,


yes think those are two separate dev teams,

What the f*** is this thread? If the forums let me, I'd have around 5 people quoted, but there's a limit, so consider yourself lucky.

As someone already pointed out, OP is ignorant. Ignorant of the fact that Valkyrie was developed to a playable demo before DUST 514 was even released in May, so it already existed as a game before DUST "became a failure."

All this "spreadsheet" nonsense is also entirely ignorant because you only work with spreadsheets when dealing with the industrial/economic side of EVE. If you're going to say that pvp in EVE is spreadsheet based, then so is CoD or Counter Strike or any other game where you can choose what offense and defense to equip.

I was going to yell at the "turn based" guy as well but then he clarified and so now he just gets more counter points. Combat in EVE is slower because the whole game is basically vehicle combat, which little of in any game is "twitch." Tanks don't strafe dance in any game and most have enough armor to take a few hits and big guns take longer to fire which slows down combat
Spaceships are really no different.The best one can hope for is either strafing runs or orbiting, in either vehicle's case, which is what you do in EVE. You can also manually fly your ship in space by clicking in space, which I hear is more important in smaller ship size fights, but I'm sh*t at frigate 1v1s.

In response to Star Citizen's cockpit views, you're only going to want that for the smaller ship sizes, for if it's realistic at all then the larger ships will be just as cumbersome as they're supposed to be and then you'll want EVE's flight mechanics so that you can focus on the fun stuff instead of trying to turn your space truck.

Also, for Valkyrie to be integrated with EVE would mean that your fighter drones, which used to be wholly under your command, might now become "special snowflakes" that do their own thing and might not shoot at what you want them to shoot at which could cost dearly. They'd have to figure out how to balance that out.

Now before I get labled a "fanboy" for "defending" EVE, it's just that I hate ignorance. I do play EVE but only because some of my friends do but lately they've been playing a lot of Minecraft and I couldn't be happier. :)

If you're going to say that pvp in EVE is spreadsheet based, then so is CoD or Counter Strike or any other game where you can choose what offense and defense to equip.

What the f*** is this thread? If the forums let me, I'd have around 5 people quoted, but there's a limit, so consider yourself lucky.

As someone already pointed out, OP is ignorant. Ignorant of the fact that Valkyrie was developed to a playable demo before DUST 514 was even released in May, so it already existed as a game before DUST "became a failure."

All this "spreadsheet" nonsense is also entirely ignorant because you only work with spreadsheets when dealing with the industrial/economic side of EVE. If you're going to say that pvp in EVE is spreadsheet based, then so is CoD or Counter Strike or any other game where you can choose what offense and defense to equip.

I was going to yell at the "turn based" guy as well but then he clarified and so now he just gets more counter points. Combat in EVE is slower because the whole game is basically vehicle combat, which little of in any game is "twitch." Tanks don't strafe dance in any game and most have enough armor to take a few hits and big guns take longer to fire which slows down combat
Spaceships are really no different.The best one can hope for is either strafing runs or orbiting, in either vehicle's case, which is what you do in EVE. You can also manually fly your ship in space by clicking in space, which I hear is more important in smaller ship size fights, but I'm sh*t at frigate 1v1s.

In response to Star Citizen's cockpit views, you're only going to want that for the smaller ship sizes, for if it's realistic at all then the larger ships will be just as cumbersome as they're supposed to be and then you'll want EVE's flight mechanics so that you can focus on the fun stuff instead of trying to turn your space truck.

Also, for Valkyrie to be integrated with EVE would mean that your fighter drones, which used to be wholly under your command, might now become "special snowflakes" that do their own thing and might not shoot at what you want them to shoot at which could cost dearly. They'd have to figure out how to balance that out.

Now before I get labled a "fanboy" for "defending" EVE, it's just that I hate ignorance. I do play EVE but only because some of my friends do but lately they've been playing a lot of Minecraft and I couldn't be happier. :)

Also Star Citizen is build for flat screen with oculus support added in later.

EVR was built with oculus at the heart of it.

This is similar to a game built around touch screen interface or mouse interface, they're going to feel worlds apart.

Star Citizen will never be a killer app for the Oculus, just a gimmick.

Someone posting on forums for a game they claim is dead is the epitome of someone with no life.

Nope. Because DUST is dead anyway. They've given up on it and are only giving small updates to keep us quiet. Dead game is dead.

research[/u] led me to RTT (Real Time Tactics) that might be a better fit.

Also Star Citizen is build for flat screen with oculus support added in later.

EVR was built with oculus at the heart of it.

This is similar to a game built around touch screen interface or mouse interface, they're going to feel worlds apart.

Star Citizen will never be a killer app for the Oculus, just a gimmick.

Why would capcom keep releasing games dead on arrival?

I like how this mythos about EvE has built up.

First there is nothing that can hurt EvE cuz how awesome EvE is and how Awesome EvE has improved.

Second EvE's success has absolutely nothing to do with how CCP has chosen to update, change and market its game in response to potential competition.

...

The games you mentioned are nothing like Star Citizen and Elite. They are direct competition taking the same space trader game mechanics (ironically first taken by CCP from the very creators of Elite and Wing commander) and putting in real time space combat.

In other words they will have everything EvE has plus you get to fly a space ship in combat in real time **** pit view. Think of it it as EvE but in a tie fighter rather then in Excel.

You are insane if you think CCP is not taking the competition seriously and not making any move to meet it.