There are a number of issues with the LAVs, which weGÇÖll be addressing in a series of updates.

The first two will be going out today in a hotfix.

"Murder Taxi" Fix
This issue is not limited to just the Militia vehicles, but the infinite supply of them certainly doesnGÇÖt help the situation. To discourage wanton (yes, wanton! ) abuse of LAVs weGÇÖll be making them consumable.

GÇóThe Baloch - Impact and Onikuma - Impact given as starting items to new characters will now be consumable. This means all current players who have this item will only have 1 run of it before it becomes unusable. It is not available on the market, but the Baloch and Onikuma (which are functionally identical to the Impact versions) will be available.
GÇóAll newly created characters will be given 10 copies of the Baloch (GA, MN characters) and Onikuma (AM, CA characters). When these run out youGÇÖll need to dip into your savings, so use them wisely!

Saga-II Fix
The Saga-IIs were removed last week because they were put out prematurely and had a number of issues. Upon their return, this is how they will stack up to the existing Saga:

Saga:
Heal Shield Rate: 16 HP/s
Shield Recharge Delay: 0s
Shield Depleted Recharge Delay: 2.5s
ISK Price: 40,000 ISK
Skill Pre-Reqs: Vehicle Command I, Caldari LAV I

Saga-II:
Heal Shield Rate: 35 HP/s
Shield Recharge Delay: 6s
Shield Depleted Recharge Delay: 6s
ISK Price: 65,000 ISK
Skill Pre-Reqs: Vehicle Command I, Caldari LAV II

GÇÿLC-225GÇÖ Saga-II:
Heal Shield Rate: 35 HP/s
Shield Recharge Delay: 6s
Shield Depleted Recharge Delay: 6s
ISK Price: N/A (approx. 100 AUR)
Skill Pre-Reqs: No Skill Pre-Reqs

GÇóThe tweaked shield regen numbers mean that after 11 seconds both vehicles will have healed an almost identical amount of HP, but thereafter the Saga-II completes healing the base 1425 HP total in 46s whereas the Saga does so in almost double the time (89 seconds).
GÇóThe Saga-II comes with a default Reactive Deflection Field module which is has no PG/CPU requirements but is functionally equivalent to a Shield Hardener I module. Effectively, the bonus here is the 45 CPU and 5 PG you save.
GÇóThe Saga-II comes with a GÇÿBrimstoneGÇÖ ST-1 Missile Launcher, which is functionally equivalent to the ST-1 Missile Launcher but has no skill requirements.

Further to these two fixes, weGÇÖre in the process of updating how collision damage is calculated and addressing vehicles, vehicle modules, turrets and vehicle skills in a rebalance pass that weGÇÖre hoping to complete for Uprising 1.4 or a hot-fix thereafter. This is likely to be a fairly substantial overhaul so once weGÇÖre in a position to do so weGÇÖll make sure you all get a good look at them and weGÇÖll attempt to address any concerns before finalizing the update.

Feel free to post your feedback right here!

DUST Game Design Team

and an LAV you buy now has a higher regen then a shield HAV... good job CCP.

The more I see you post the more Im convinced you cant be pleased

This is where CCP delivers first blow to the murder taxi. Next stop: 1.4 patch (probably like end of August?)

Thanks a lot for this. Will no longer waste my swarm rockets on free LAVs ;)

there is still other BPOs lav out there...

there is still other BPOs lav out there...

Yes. But they are less common than those freakin' Baloch craps.

Dear players,

Today DUST 514 will go offline for an extended period of time starting from 11:00 GMT. Server is expected to come back up at 11:50 GMT. Today we are:

* Ending Mordu's Challenge event (rewards will be deployed next Tuesday)
* Applying changes to the LAVs, and for more details, here is our Game Design team's message:


Thank you.

It took you almost three months to come up with this. For the love of God, tell me you work more than three days out of the week.

I'm not being funny, but please can you change the date format to YYMMDD ? This is the ISO 8601 data format that can be understood internationally WITHOUT confusion.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_8601

It's a well known phenomenon that the USA are *unique* around the world for using MMDDYY, when the rest of the world uses either DDMMYY or YYMMDD

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Date_format_by_country

Please take heed, community team - you have an international audience and should ensure that you can be understood clearly by more than a single country.

I'll assume you are a troll or unable to read this:

Further to these two fixes, weGÇÖre in the process of updating how collision damage is calculated and addressing vehicles, vehicle modules, turrets and vehicle skills in a rebalance pass that weGÇÖre hoping to complete for Uprising 1.4 or a hot-fix thereafter. This is likely to be a fairly substantial overhaul so once weGÇÖre in a position to do so weGÇÖll make sure you all get a good look at them and weGÇÖll attempt to address any concerns before finalizing the update.

and an LAV you buy now has a higher regen then a shield HAV... good job CCP. i feel like your vehicle department is on crack and takes orders from the dropsuit department.

So you are confused because there is no 18th month? Can't swap two numbers and get the date? :/ Poor thing.

how can you mistake this date, there is nither 13th nor 18th month, and I doubt they are doing a post about a patch in 5 years.

Once again CCP doesn't listen to us.

Now, we no longer have free transportation on big maps, like seriously, WTF? You're going to have to make us run our slow asses everywhere?

All that should've been done was the removal of the HP buff on militia LAVs. Such that every AV weapon can one shot it. That would've fixed the damn problem CCP. One militia swarm launcher and it's dead. People will be discouraged from using them as murder taxis.

I blame the vehicle department for every single issue regarding vehicles.

Once again, bravo CCP for ignoring the community's suggestions on how to solve murder taxiing. I personally had not seen a single post suggesting to put a price tag on the starter fits.

So the problem of indestructible Logi LAV's isn't being fixed?

I'm not being funny, but please can you change the date format to YYMMDD ? This is the ISO 8601 data format that can be understood internationally WITHOUT confusion.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_8601

It's a well known phenomenon that the USA are *unique* around the world for using MMDDYY, when the rest of the world uses either DDMMYY or YYMMDD

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Date_format_by_country

Please take heed, community team - you have an international audience and should ensure that you can be understood clearly by more than a single country.

Now everyone will be spawning in and staring at each other to see who they can catch a free ride with, lol.

- No you call in an LAV.
- No you call one in.
- No way you call it in.
- I called it in the last time, its your turn.

......................

F**k it lets run.

Basic Scout suit with a SMG; about 4,000 isk... and guess what, you get there nearly as fast as a LAV.

I think starter LAVs should remain unlimited to an extent. Maybe make them weaker than militia (especially the baloch - impact, I see them survive an assault forge gun hit with no armor left and still keep driving long enough for them to bail out, when an onikuma - impact would instapop). And also make it so only a limited number can be called in per game per person. Also, starter LAVs shouldn't count towards team quota for vehicles, or maybe have their own team quota so it doesn't keep players from bringing in their better vehicles.
I barely use the starter LAVs anymore since I have much better LAVs but I think they are helpful for newer players to have (nearly) unlimited access to.

Its official , Tanks wins , do the math.

This seems like a good idea ! But if you devs put on another module on the saga that makes it indestructible again then you're only reducing the problem and you did that on purpose -_-

...says the guy who runs around in a heavy suit with proto HMG, and flaylock. (Rolls eyes)

I for one think this is in keeping with the whole EvE ethos, nothing should be free, losing something should hit your wallet. The old adage "Only fly/drive what you can afford to lose" is how it should be. Thanks CCP!

Hence "Murder Taxi" referring to Logistics LAVs (because they're yellow)...
They were untouched?

It's a step in the right direction however simply removing or reducing the massive 60% HP buff would have been far more appropriate, and could have been done long ago.

As has been mentioned this does not address LLAVs, hopefully the improved impact physics in 1.4 will.

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbO2_077ixs[/url]

Now everyone will be spawning in and staring at each other to see who they can catch a free ride with, lol.

- No you call in an LAV.
- No you call one in.
- No way you call it in.
- I called it in the last time, its your turn.

......................

F**k it lets run.

So the problem of indestructible Logi LAV's isn't being fixed?

If I recall the free LAV, am I able to call it back in?

This absolutely deserves a comment for just great taste in music here.

Also, check the Al Green version if you get the opportunity.

What about the matches where there are scrubs and poor players on one side and a corp or squad with money on the other side? The side with the squad will have a big advantage over the other side if they can call in a car to get to the letters while the others would have to hoof it all the way there.

Question for the Devs, what about those BPOs LAVs from the Vet and Elite packs (which I have purchased both)? Will those also be replaced with single use BPCs?

What about the matches where there are scrubs and poor players on one side and a corp or squad with money on the other side? The side with the squad will have a big advantage over the other side if they can call in a car to get to the letters while the others would have to hoof it all the way there.

You realize you don't exactly have to be rich to afford a militia LAV? And you can recall it once you get to the objective.

....and the masses rejoiced, crying out in glee as their savior answered their prayer.

plus the free ones weren't really what people were mad it, it was the LLAVs which had no change to. so meh. the saga-II is further proof ccp hate caldari HAVs, make a gunnlogi II then because it make sense and have as advanced for a slighter higher price that comes with turrets giving an overall cheaper price.

It's a start, which is nice. But I don't see too much murder-taxi discouragement with these changes. So the previously free LAV will cost what, 500 ISK? 1000 ISK, 6000 ISK? That's not going to stop it's abuse, anything short of 40k for a standard LAV won't stop people from abusing it. Also the LLAV is the real problem here, at least free LAV's can be easily destroyed. LLAV's are practically invincible and require an army of AV players to have a chance at taking it out.


But good to hear you guys are looking into impact damage, just hope those changes aren't coming SoonGäó

Aww, I am not happy with this :(

I would rather have a massive HP reduction. I always have fun driving my LAV in circles.

Aww, I am not happy with this :(

I would rather have a massive HP reduction. I always have fun driving my LAV in circles.

Also, please learn some tactics.

I don't see the change this morning. Considering I paid $300 for three accounts to get the permanent lav on each. I will not be happy if its taken away. In fact I've spent more money on gear and its not enjoyable to see things being taken away. So much I'll probably simply go spend my entertainment dollars elsewhere.

Considering I paid $300 for three accounts to get the permanent lav on each.

and an LAV you buy now has a higher regen then a shield HAV... good job CCP. i feel like your vehicle department is on crack and takes orders from the dropsuit department.

yo... the MLT LAVs are 40k. the free ones are gone.

I still have my Gurista Saga BPO..... but I need to put a turret on it. The question is would I buy a turret BPO to continue having ISK free murder?

It's really just The Caldari LLAV that's near impossible to kill. The Limbus is hard to take out but it's not indestructible like the C.LLAV. Think about it. The shields already has a 30% resistance against explosives by default. Add on to that with a built in 30% for the LLAV and you have a god mode vehicle.

One time my corp mates killed the driver from one so I threw three C-7 fluxes at the stagnate vehicle and then three remote explosives underneath it and it STILL had some shields left. All of this while my mates are shooting it with small arms fire, a HMG and a basic missile launcher turret.

That's just crazy.

P.S. With extremely rough math a Wikimoryi (or whatever the hell that is) Swarm Launcher would only do around 737.5 damage if the person decided to equip at least ONE basic resistant amplifier.

I wouldn't have an issue with this if they had an AV weapon primarily for shields but that's not in the game yet.

So the problem of indestructible Logi LAV's isn't being fixed?

I dont know what crack you have been smoking, but I have lost many a Charbdyis. Indestructible my ass.

The issue with all LAV`s is they do too much damage at such low speeds. I'm sure its expected you die if you get hit at full speed, but like 5-10 mph? No that should barely damage you.

Soooo how much do these "Not Free" LAV's cost?

So then these new "Not Free" LAV's cost 27,000 ISK?

Yes / No

Anyone?

Buller, Buller............................................

After an interesting conversation on IRC about LLAV's and what exactly is making them such OP road killing machines I had a thought. Slow LLAV's down so that there top speed is between infantry and HAV's. While at first this may not seem like very good solution, lets think about it. To serve there main propose of repairing other players they need to have high survivability, I have no problem with that. They need to be able to stick with the people they are trying to support, they are not scout LAV's or regular transports.

Obviously the remote repair tool needs work for it, but I think this could also go well with the remote supply depot idea posted in this forum currently.

What does everybody think about this, just kind of spit balling this idea.

Further to these two fixes, weGÇÖre in the process of updating how collision damage is calculated and addressing vehicles, vehicle modules, turrets and vehicle skills in a rebalance pass that weGÇÖre hoping to complete for Uprising 1.4 or a hot-fix thereafter. This is likely to be a fairly substantial overhaul so once weGÇÖre in a position to do so weGÇÖll make sure you all get a good look at them and weGÇÖll attempt to address any concerns before finalizing the update.

so skills for the saga ll now ok now i going to need a isk refund i bought over 600.

Buller...................................

You're the one bringing up the rock, tweeks.

The issue was that free lavs caused disruption to game experience (disproportionate pop-bags).

If you get hit by even half a ton of weight at even 5mph, you are going down, and you are getting crushed.

Now as far as vehicles are concerned... the LLAV needs to have it's shields and armor stripped to a third or half of what it currently is, or make the vehicle itself slower for how 'heavy' it is.

I posted how to kill those LLAVs on page 2. However you do need about 2 million SP to do it. (need certain skills)

I used my final Baloch to hack a few things and then drove through a squad crossing a road. I only managed to kill one guy but in guilt I jumped out to die under gunfire like a real man.

Farewell, little Baloch.

Also we will be seeing a ton of peeps recalling LAV's as well.

What is it with CCP and listening to the whining noobs? Anyone that had ever used a militia swarm launcher or forge gun on a militia LAV would have realized not only how weak those LAVs were, but also how beneficial they were to AVers (people literally never recalled them and just abandoned them). Now logi LAVs are still on the rise, and CCP says they've "fixed the murder taxi issue". The ironic part is that the logis are the ones that actually look like taxis! You know what the worst part is? I'm not even close to being the first person to say this. I've seen this said a countless number of times in the countless number of LAV complaint threads.

Still plenty of LAV's around... just not the ones that kids likes to use because they are free. Also people are not going in Killing sprees now, because they have more to lose. In fact .. was lovely to day, nice intense battles without pesky LAV's.

Maybe CCP should listen to "whining vets" a bit more often.

Maybe fix the charybdis? Aka the biggest problem...

Sorry, didn't mean to sound like a jerk, my match was starting :)

Fantastic fix to a terrible problem, I just had a great match because I didn't know about these changes which forced me to adapt. Now I will think more carefully about when to call down an LAV, before I would use them as a distraction but now they cost more than my basic dropsuit, I may have to change my tactics!

For all the good work I hope there is more to come, because the Charybdis is a very big problem, it's harder to kill than most tanks! My fix for this would be to make the Charybdis slower, about 10% faster than a tank so you can actually hit it, and so that it does what it's supposed to: fix tanks.

This seems like a good idea ! But if you devs put on another module on the saga that makes it indestructible again then you're only reducing the problem and you did that on purpose -_-

Give us WPs for doing logi work and we might stop the murder taxiing

I dont know what crack you have been smoking, but I have lost many a Charbdyis. Indestructible my ass.

The issue with all LAV`s is they do too much damage at such low speeds. I'm sure its expected you die if you get hit at full speed, but like 5-10 mph? No that should barely damage you.

tfw no free LAVs ;-; I loved having them for transport. How much is the least expensive LAV then?

tfw no free LAVs ;-; I loved having them for transport. How much is the least expensive LAV then?

Don't forget you can recall them before they blow up : )

As a LAV BPO user, I rejoice! People should stop always carrying AV grenades around, making my murder taxi-ing more effective for now!

As an AV dude, I'm saddened :-( now there will be less AV targets for me to pop...

Not sure which one I'm more, happy or sad...

I love the changes that are going to be made, however, I have one problem with this all, I want a vehicle that I can buy cheaply enough and have it still be good but not to good, starting price around 20-30k and be decently loaded, the milita vehicles just really are not that strong. I'm not asking for a free ride, I still want to spec into it but I don't want everyone of my rides to be me crying that I lost it, but I want something where I do not want to loose it either.

I also would love the vehcile hit damage to change, this would be very welcomed as I do play infinitry and vehicle a lot, as the system is currently it is very broken, so I'm happy to see that CCP is doing all the changes and will be doing changes to this all.

yes but atleast people paid realworld money for them nothing worse than a 200k suit mowed down by some yard ape fresh out of the battle academy that is all he knows how to do

Once again CCP doesn't listen to us.

Now, we no longer have free transportation on big maps, like seriously, WTF? You're going to have to make us run our slow asses everywhere?

All that should've been done was the removal of the HP buff on militia LAVs. Such that every AV weapon can one shot it. That would've fixed the damn problem CCP. One militia swarm launcher and it's dead. People will be discouraged from using them as murder taxis.

I blame the vehicle department for every single issue regarding vehicles.

Once again, bravo CCP for ignoring the community's suggestions on how to solve murder taxiing. I personally had not seen a single post suggesting to put a price tag on the starter fits.

End of rant

Not happay at all. No more fun. Player will still call LAVs. It's just fun to run people over. And a lot of us like to see that happen. As a professional forge gunner. Now I will make player us up ISK. I myself will still call for murder taxis. Stop your crying little girls. First Lazer rifles, then tanks, then LAVs, now forgeguns (witch I think it was tweaked because all this week I have not bel able to get any kills with the forgegun not nice CCP) will you not make players that us this things happpy ?

CCP I am very very(could go on forever) HAPPY THESE ARE GONE. Now when i pop a LAV I will be so much happier knowing it cost them ISK.

wont cost me anything... mines a bpo

yes but atleast people paid realworld money for them nothing worse than a 200k suit mowed down by some yard ape fresh out of the battle academy that is all he knows how to do

and an LAV you buy now has a higher regen then a shield HAV... good job CCP. i feel like your vehicle department is on crack and takes orders from the dropsuit department.

CCP I would even suggest lowering the speed of LLAV to double that of a merc. Eliminating all collision damage on mercs from it. Giving it an innate 50% resist to compensate for it's slow speed 14 meters per second. Eliminating the turret. Adding 2 extra seats where the turret should go. Making it more like a personnel/supply carrier than a car. Something akin to having a moving supply depot with no offensive capabilities and no ability to run people over but still having the same staying power as it used to but just in the form of damage mitigation. This would make it a focused support platform and not an actual roving yellow taxi of death.

and yet the ishukone watch saga and the bloodraiders saga remian as murder taxis......................

....and the masses rejoiced, crying out in glee as their savior answered their prayer.

I think starter LAVs should remain unlimited to an extent. Maybe make them weaker than militia (especially the baloch - impact, I see them survive an assault forge gun hit with no armor left and still keep driving long enough for them to bail out, when an onikuma - impact would instapop). And also make it so only a limited number can be called in per game per person. Also, starter LAVs shouldn't count towards team quota for vehicles, or maybe have their own team quota so it doesn't keep players from bringing in their better vehicles.
I barely use the starter LAVs anymore since I have much better LAVs but I think they are helpful for newer players to have (nearly) unlimited access to.

Question: do vehicle shields prevent the dudes inside from getting shot out?

The way of the samurai ...

I commend you, sir.


Munch

Personally, I enjoy driving around. I also like flying around. This is unique to this game. You can't do that in cod.

Remove vehicles or make them less resillaint and the game loses its appeal. Less appeal and $10 for a armored/aerial assault pack becomes less incentive for me to buy. I've blown probably $100 on packs between various toons.

blue skink wrote:
Kekklian Noobatronic wrote:
As a LAV BPO user, I rejoice! People should stop always carrying AV grenades around, making my murder taxi-ing more effective for now!

As an AV dude, I'm saddened :-( now there will be less AV targets for me to pop...

Not sure which one I'm more, happy or sad...


Personally, I enjoy driving around. I also like flying around. This is unique to this game. You can't do that in cod.

Remove vehicles or make them less resillaint and the game loses its appeal. Less appeal and $10 for a armored/aerial assault pack becomes less incentive for me to buy. I've blown probably $100 on packs between various toons.



driving and flying are not unique to dust, play battlefield man
Dimitri Rascolovitch
Posted: 2013.07.26 08:52

Poonmunch wrote:
Reav Hannari wrote:
I used my final Baloch to hack a few things and then drove through a squad crossing a road. I only managed to kill one guy but in guilt I jumped out to die under gunfire like a real man.

Farewell, little Baloch.


The way of the samurai ...

I commend you, sir.


Munch



i lost my onikuma in very much the same way, nailed 3 people and a wall trying to reach the alpha bridge objective, they kinda dove infront of me, but i hopped out and mowed them down with my hmg whilst they showered me in AVs
Dimitri Rascolovitch
Posted: 2013.07.26 08:35

Akurabis wrote:
Question: do vehicle shields prevent the dudes inside from getting shot out?



No

I'll assume you are a troll or unable to read this:

Further to these two fixes, weGÇÖre in the process of updating how collision damage is calculated and addressing vehicles, vehicle modules, turrets and vehicle skills in a rebalance pass that weGÇÖre hoping to complete for Uprising 1.4 or a hot-fix thereafter. This is likely to be a fairly substantial overhaul so once weGÇÖre in a position to do so weGÇÖll make sure you all get a good look at them and weGÇÖll attempt to address any concerns before finalizing the update.

After having a couple of engagements I realized how more quiet the street scene looks. No more kids using their daddies honda to get DUI's. I for one run the streets a bit more cheerfully knowing that I have stopped being run over every 2 seconds I walk out to an open space.

Now for the real problem. The elimination of free LAV's will create an increase in LLAV's when people see that having one of these will not only be a good investment but will get them many more hours of enjoyment per isk spent than any other LAV since they rarely dies to anything except noobish driving.

This is one step towards balance but CCP is on thin ICE right now. Just like when prohibition happened in The US, lets hope "crime" (Using LLAV's) doesn't reach an all time high.

CCP I would even suggest lowering the speed of LLAV to double that of a merc. Eliminating all collision damage on mercs from it. Giving it an innate 50% resist to compensate for it's slow speed 14 meters per second. Eliminating the turret. Adding 2 extra seats where the turret should go. Making it more like a personnel/supply carrier than a car. Something akin to having a moving supply depot with no offensive capabilities and no ability to run people over but still having the same staying power as it used to but just in the form of damage mitigation. This would make it a focused support platform and not an actual roving yellow taxi of death.


TANKS

Tanks need more damage resistance too at their advanced and proto tiers if and when they come out. Since there are only standard Tiers available.

I know that this position is not popular, but no way, we all have been killed by lav's, but that is what we get for not paying attention. If you get hit by a truck then you should die or be damage, period! They are easy to avoid, I have danced around many a lav in a basic ar suit and they are so easy to avoid in any other suit. They should be left alone. Normally I do not use them as kill taxis, but when your team has lost all hope of winning in the first 5min because two corps decided to troll for sp and wins in pub matches it is a lot of fun to get your bpo and run them over to have them pay for their win a little.

have you ever tried dodging them in a heavy suit with no stamina left?

have you ever tried dodging them in a heavy suit with no stamina left?

as everyone knows when you get better and better gear, for dominating those players less skilled than yourself, the ISK value of said gear gets higher and higher. Meaning when you die more often it tends to hurt your bank account even more, so chances are nothing will **** the masses off more than losing a 100k+ isk suit setup because some prick decided he wanted to use a transport vehicle for roadkilling people instead of transportation. I know as a heavy half the time I see Lavs coming its usually too late for me, or i have just run out of stamina to dodge it. Its never any fun getting constantly killed by LAVs. Hell 2 games ago when i played i kept getting roadkilled as soon as i spawned in on skirmish, IN MY GROUND SPAWN. So in my opinion, LAV road killing needs to be nerfed

I'm really beginning to question why these free LAV changes were even applied, after the vehicle damage changes described by CCP Wolfman coming in 1.4. If murder taxi-ing won't even be possible unless at high speeds, then can someone please explain the point of removing those free LAVs?

So, to use the same logic lets nerf space strikes, they kill my 2mil tank and I can not defend against them.
How about nerfing all basic weapons, I hate losing 200k to some guy with a basic heavy machn gun as I am running to take a position.
Oh and definitely lets nerf all nades, they can kill us.

Or we can all play the game Knowing that we will die at some point and decide what suit and loadout to use for each situation, I guarantee you that if I was playing skirmish and the enemy had a bunch of lavs running around, I would spawn into a basic missile launcher to take out a few before I jumped back in with a 100+isk suit loadout, but that is me. I play every game knowing that more likely than not I will be killed and it will cost me $, so I decide how much $ I am willing to risk for each game. Am I trying to earn isk or sp? Do I want to win at any cost? Did that guy just **** me off and kill me and now I am jumping in with my proto to hunt him down? what is the goal? Everyone needs to manage their own risk for their own rewards for each game.