If public matches were the sole criteria by which sniping could be judged, I would agree with you.

But my criteria are high-tier PC battles. Where both teams are working 100% organically.
In that context, sniping is highly insufficient as a supporting anti-infantry weapon.

When you're on a good team, taking on another good team with skilled experienced players. It's awesome and intense.
When I was running my Cal Assault, the snipers weren't there. To my memory.... a sniper has never even killed me in a PC battle when i was running assault.
It just will not happen.

Challenge Eon to a PC match. Bring your snipers. Watch and see how you get railroaded. Remember the battle. Don't repeat it.
The FUNCTION of sniping in Dust IS easy, it's the APPLICATION in significant battles that takes skill.
Went 13/1 in the last PC battle I was in. One suicide, just to switch to my Thale's.... its the only sniper that functions well vs. everyone. Locked down my objective and its perimeter using a combination of REs and sniper fire. Changed positions regularly to throw sniper fire at heavy choke points. Again, the practical application of a sniper rifle is what takes skill, not just it's function.

Can you finish that hostile off before he kills your buddy?
Can you neutralize that hostile squad running out in the open?
In high-end proto matches, proto sniper rifles just CANNOT do it.

The problem with sniper rifles is that when you get into "True Proto level" (proto suits, proto modules, proto weapons) any sniper rifle short of the Thale's is grossly underpowered. I HAD to switch to the Thale's for my sniper fire to be efficient in that match. Why couldn't the Ishukone do it? Takes 3-4 rounds to drop someone. Too weak. The Kaalakiota? Don't make me laugh. It's RoF means batshit when it shoots only 3 weak rounds. The Charge? Now you're talking, but in heavy fighting, that RoF is very poor for significant support.
Proto rifles vs. powerful opponents in meaningful battles have VERY poor TTK. It all boils down to TTK (time to kill). It would be great if Tactical sniper rifles had 5 rounds, and the Charge was a guaranteed OHK (it does about 440 neutral body damage. -10% vs. shields. +10% vs. armor, but it's TTK is still bad.)

All this is said with vs. high-end proto in mind. Sniper rifles are balanced fine for your every day pub stomp. But the high-end fights is where they are really suffering a lack.

You joking right?
Sniping is the easiest and most efficient profession right now.
What's important is how many clones you lose vs how many you kill, because clones = money and respawns.
Snipers are the safest and can just point and shoot and deal MASSIVE damage.
Especially the charged version.


Snipers need bullet drop and travel time, so it's not just point, shoot, collect free WP.

so people want to make the sniper rifle take more skill and possibly ruin the gun?

I'm glad there are smart snipers that see how incompetant sniping is. I have prof. 5 with pro snipers, I got enhanced mods. I hear that the complex mods aren't cutting it either, what a joke. We need a buff and reliable PRO sniper rifles.

I used the 48/1 in a pub match as reference to how easy it is to snipe, iv been here since day one of closed beta, I too have played alot of corp battles and planetary conquest battles ALWAYS against the best, an example is facing imps around 23 times in a row lol. A to snipe you don't have to kill to be effective, try softening people up, you had to bring out your thales yeah because as you stated it's s high end organised match. I have been killed in 1 or two shots by a thales in planetary conquest plenty, it just seems you want planetary conquest matches as easy as pub matches for snipers.

Before you hate just wait. Snipers are the fear gods of Shooters. A great sniper should be able to make ppl fear him. I do not see that in this game. I feel like sniping isnt as dangerous as other shooters. When I hit a guy and it takes a quarter of his health off. It pisses me off cause now he runs and hides and escapes. Even with Head shots its like he doesnt die. WHY?! I mean a head shot in any other means is and should be fatal.

Let Sniper shots kill in 1 shot if its a head shot. Reward skill and patience for lining up a head shot. And buff the basic damage of a sniper shot so that low suit players get one shoted and proto players can be 2 shoted. If a proto players gets hit it makes since to let him take cover. but a basic suit militia suit and even a advance suit player gets one shoted. Tact snipers should be at a 65% dmg of normal sniper rifles and shoot at a 50% fire rate. But buff the normal rifle dmg for 45% - 65% dmg.

I suggested a Boost to base damage and a better scope with a zoom. as well as lower tier rifles doing less then higher tier rifles. But no one seems to want to judge it if it was good numbers.

I haven't read through this thread but I just want to chime in with some points.

When Negative-Feedback was active in Planetary Conquest at the start of it we usually used a sniper. In some matches we even used two snipers but that was mostly due to not really having a replacement for them online, and at least one of them was able to switch roles mid-battle if he had to. A sniper used right in PC can be very deadly.

Our snipers, from what I remember, mainly used the Ishukone (they will tell you the Charged is useless in these battles), and not the Thale's. I remember one of them going 23-0 in a highly competitive match, and in a lot of our matches the sniper played a very huge role in securing the victory.

Good snipers are valuable in PC matches. If you're not a top notch sniper, find another role, because bad snipers won't be needed.

Snipers are not meant to solo the entire other team. They're meant to support their team, so you better start doing just that instead complaining that you need a million shots to kill a heavy on your own. Newsflash, the heavy is supposed to be able to soak up a lot of damage.

Are you guys telling me that almost 350 body damage with the Ishukone is too little? That is around 600 headshot damage? Are you kidding me? Do you have any idea how good that is, if you're just supporting your team instead of trying to solo the other team?

Unless CCP is about to remove the damage mods and/or the proficiency skill, the damage will most certainly not be increased on the snipers. If they increased the base damage on the snipers, they'll become extremely OP with damage mods, which should be taken into account, yes.

If you're complaining that you need to have proficiency 5 and a ton of damage mods to be competitive in PC matches, then get out of here right now. What do you expect? If you're a dedicated sniper, you're exactly expected to get proficiency 5 and use at least 3 damage mods (yes, that's right, you don't necessarily need anymore than that, since the 4th and 5th damage mods don't add that much extra damage anyway).

That was before the Damage Profile change.
I don't want a a single thing to be done to the base damages.

Sniper Rifles were absolutely perfectly fine before the Damage Profile "nerf", but every 35 points off a shot, and 40 points off a shot makes a difference against players where that MINUTE difference matters. Mainly shield assaults that start regenerating shields almost instantly if you don't knock them empty.

Make sniper headshots instant kills and you will never hear a complaint out of me.

The sniper is a hybrid railgun weapon and will therefore be a 90/110 weapon. The same with the forge gun, which was fine before the change, and is still fine. The sniper is fine as well.

Everyone and their mother are shield tanked at the moment, which of course makes it harder for the snipers, however that is due to armor being bad. You don't solve this problem by doing anything but balancing shield vs armor.

In an ideal situation, infantry would be closer to 50/50 shield/armor tankers, in which case there would be absolutely no problem with snipers.

You also haven't mentioned that since heavies have more armor than shields, this damage profile change (yes, change, not nerf), have actually made them easier to kill now?

And just lol at you wanting headshots to be instant kill. Would that apply to heavies with 1.2k+ HP as well? If not, why not? A headshot is a headshot, I would imagine?

So basically, you're telling me I'm absolutely wrong, but I'm absolutely right?

Sits there and admits that the problem is present because of the *intended* damage profile; exacerbated by the fact that the majority are shield assaults. Points out, that it's an effect of shields being superior to armor; thank you Mr. Obvious.
But still says "the sniper is fine as well".

lol....

A domino effect of failure does not make something fine. I'm sorry. I don't want to come across as rude. Did you have a point you wanted to make?

Heavies have more armor than they do shields? You sure? No they don't. They are 50/50 on their shields and armor. Depends on the build that a particular heavy wants to make. They can bias either/or. :)

Forge guns already 1 shot heavies on direct body hits. Something wrong with a sniper doing that on the head?
Let me particular... a Charge Sniper Rifle on headshot? Isn't that doing around 900 damage? OOPS. That's already 1-shotting Heavies.
Or would that be arguing a domino effect of failure and calling it "fine", like you did with the snipers.

I'm not trying to be a pain in the ass dude.
The only time snipers will be fine again is when we have an anti-shield variant. A racial variant sniper rifle with 110/90. When? Who knows... It should have been released when the damage profiles were altered, imho.

Before you hate just wait. Snipers are the fear gods of Shooters. A great sniper should be able to make ppl fear him. I do not see that in this game. I feel like sniping isnt as dangerous as other shooters. When I hit a guy and it takes a quarter of his health off. It pisses me off cause now he runs and hides and escapes. Even with Head shots its like he doesnt die. WHY?! I mean a head shot in any other means is and should be fatal.

Let Sniper shots kill in 1 shot if its a head shot. Reward skill and patience for lining up a head shot. And buff the basic damage of a sniper shot so that low suit players get one shoted and proto players can be 2 shoted. If a proto players gets hit it makes since to let him take cover. but a basic suit militia suit and even a advance suit player gets one shoted. Tact snipers should be at a 65% dmg of normal sniper rifles and shoot at a 50% fire rate. But buff the normal rifle dmg for 45% - 65% dmg.

There's no problem with the Sniper doing 90/110 damage to shield/armor since it's a hybrid railgun damage type. I just said that with the current situation with everyone shield tanking the Sniper might seem worse than it would be if infantry were split 50/50 between shields and armor.

Heavies will generally have more armor than shields after modules are applied.

Forge Gun is a heavy weapon which is naturally doing more damage, or are you also complaining about Railguns one-shotting people with direct hits? Forge Gun also has no scope and travel time, so hitting people at extreme ranges is practically impossible (the Sniper also has more range to begin with), plus the shots don't always hit at the center of the reticule. Basically stop comparing the Forge Gun with the Sniper.

What's wrong with a Charged Sniper one-shotting people with headshots if it's doing more damage than the enemy has health? With that said, I think it does a little less than 900 headshot damage, plus heavies have way more health than that. If an enemy has less than 600 health you're welcome to one-shot him with a headshot with the Ishukone, I don't see a problem with that.

There's also no confirmed plans for an anti-shields sniper rifle of any kind (unless the Amarr heavy weapon will act as a sniper, which I doubt as I know it will serve as both AV and AI). There is however a shorter ranged Precision Rifle coming at some point that will be doing 95/110 damage.

Also you still ignored all my other points about supporting your team instead of trying to solo everyone.

Well, apparently the problem would already be solved, I guess. Caldari Logis will have less shields come 1.3 and since they're your only problem everything should be fine come tuesday. What are you ranting about then?

They didn't change the damage profile for the Sniper, they changed the damage profile for hybrid railguns, which inludes the Sniper (the others are the Railgun and Forge Gun + the future Rail Rifle, Bolt Pistol and Magsec SMG).

If the entire other team is Caldari and you know you won't be effective as a sniper, then why are you rolling as sniper? Honestly though, I don't really know why a 30-35 damage "nerf" against Caldari suits is worth crying over. If you're supporting your team you're either killing the Caldari, getting assists on them or at least pushing them back into cover until your teammates can finish them off. Either way you're an asset to your team.

We don't necessarily need any more anti-shields weapons apart from an AV one. We already have the Laser, Scrambler Rifle/Pistol, AR and Shotgun. Although, more anti-shields weapons are confirmed for coming at some point, 2 heavy and 3 sidearm weapons.

The only existing problem is that explosive weapons are doing more than the 120% damage to armor they're supposed to.

I want respecs implemented too

Well, apparently the problem would already be solved, I guess. Caldari Logis will have less shields come 1.3 and since they're your only problem everything should be fine come tuesday. What are you ranting about then?

They didn't change the damage profile for the Sniper, they changed the damage profile for hybrid railguns, which inludes the Sniper (the others are the Railgun and Forge Gun + the future Rail Rifle, Bolt Pistol and Magsec SMG).

If the entire other team is Caldari and you know you won't be effective as a sniper, then why are you rolling as sniper? Honestly though, I don't really know why a 30-35 damage "nerf" against Caldari suits is worth crying over. If you're supporting your team you're either killing the Caldari, getting assists on them or at least pushing them back into cover until your teammates can finish them off. Either way you're an asset to your team.

We don't necessarily need any more anti-shields weapons apart from an AV one. We already have the Laser, Scrambler Rifle/Pistol, AR and Shotgun. Although, more anti-shields weapons are confirmed for coming at some point, 2 heavy and 3 sidearm weapons.

The only existing problem is that explosive weapons are doing more than the 120% damage to armor they're supposed to.

I want respecs implemented too

Your kind doesn't belong here. Best if you just left now. (That means no.)


Peace, Godin

So everyone is content with the damage snipers are doing now? REALLY? wow. Some ppl just need to learn how Shooters work. Play other games instead of CoD. Like Socom. Black hawk down. Spec ops. Battlefield. Just to name a few. Snipers in there have at least ONE one shot kill rifle. And the game isnt dead or broken. Im not trying to say boost the damage to a one shot kill anymore. Im asking for a small boost in damage at the least. OR at the least make it where the better the rifle the more damage it does. Cause right now the Pro rifle does like 20 points of damage more then the trucking standard. Or militia I think. sad really when I spend 500% more isk and all I get is a small 20 points of damage. Get outta here with all that sht. Learn to play real shooters before making a shooter. Sniper rifle? more like pea shooter with a scope. And sorry you cant convince me other wise.

I am a born sniper! I have killed thousands in other shooters games. I know the pain and struggles of other snipers. And let me tell you. I shouldnt have to hit a target 4-5 times to kill it. Oh and I do get kills and SUPPORT my team when I am in one. So dont tell me its about supporting your teammates or sht like that. Cause I kno that. I know all points of view from both sides of the field and I still believe that snipers should get either a makeover or a buff to its base damage. BUT if damage wont get buffed up then for the LOVE of ALL that is Holy and Unholy. Give us an enhanced zoom! Then and only then will I be content like the majority of you guys with the damage my sniper is able to dish out. Until then I am waving the FIX SNIPERS FLAG!

So everyone is content with the damage snipers are doing now? REALLY? wow. Some ppl just need to learn how Shooters work. Play other games instead of CoD. Like Socom. Black hawk down. Spec ops. Battlefield. Just to name a few. Snipers in there have at least ONE one shot kill rifle. And the game isnt dead or broken. Im not trying to say boost the damage to a one shot kill anymore. Im asking for a small boost in damage at the least. OR at the least make it where the better the rifle the more damage it does. Cause right now the Pro rifle does like 20 points of damage more then the trucking standard. Or militia I think. sad really when I spend 500% more isk and all I get is a small 20 points of damage. Get outta here with all that sht. Learn to play real shooters before making a shooter. Sniper rifle? more like pea shooter with a scope. And sorry you cant convince me other wise.

Nope, it's stupidly easy to snipe in this game.

Btw I'm all in favor of the Sniper being able to OHK most suits (with headshots) if the sniper was only able to lock down one specific chokepoint at a time. With the current map designs however, the damage is just fine.

I wonder why all the good snipers don't seem to have any significant trouble with dominating. Maybe you aren't a good sniper and should find something else to do? Just a thought.

Do those games have you pay for EACH AND EVERY suit you wear? Or do they come preasseembled out of a box? And, if you had to pay, say, 3000 CoD points per life, wouldn't you be getting upset that the weakestsniper 2 shots you? If the balance is so much better in cod, THEN PLAY COD. Just. Can i has your stuffs? Kinds wanting proto snipers to mess arousnd with

I agree, wholeheartedly. It's an absolute joke that I can have proficiency 5, 3 complex damage mods and a charge sniper rifle, and it STILL takes me 4-5 shots to take down some heavies, and usually 3 for any decently fit proto logi or assault. Lets put this in perspective; this is a prototype weapon with the highest damage of any sniper not an officer in the game. It is comparable to the Thales in damage, and with the charge time it still takes me a minimum of 12 seconds to down a well fit proto player. In terms of sniping, 12 seconds is an absolute eternity in terms of finding cover... let alone 20 seconds that some heavies will have. This hardly makes us a class to be feared by our equals.

Sure, the proto sniper does well against std and adv opponents, but is that really the standard we hold the weapon to to be balanced?


NOTE: times calculated based on 4 sec charge time, though I have not tested this

Sniping should be more difficult in this game. Since the rifles shoot a projectile there should be all sorts of issues with long range sniping that require skill to compensate for and i dont mean just dumping sp into something. Although perhaps there should be a module and skill called sniper assist that attempts to show where you should aim to accurately hit a target. Factors that should be considered would be gravity / bullet drop and wind. I dont think heart rate should be a factor because the suite should compensate for that and provide for a solid shooting platform.
Not sure that a head shot should = instant kill all the time either honestly because of the shields that should protect the head. But if the riffle can do enough damage to penetrate the shields and do say 1/4 armor (because the head would have armor just much less and 1/4 is a guess.) then it should kill because then to me the bullet managed to blow out the shields and small amount of protection and hit a vital organ.