Please everyone...

Just ignore this guy.

Don't even bother posting in this thread, just let it die.

Please everyone...

Just ignore this guy.

Don't even bother posting in this thread, just let it die.

It's easier if you AFK

Just because a gun isn't used by everyone doesn't mean it's not OP,
I just debunked your whole thread that you prob took 1-2hours to make, which means I'm OP

/thread

Please everyone...

Just ignore this guy.

Don't even bother posting in this thread, just let it die.

No.

I probably disagree with his analysis (didn't ever really read it)...but the numbers are interesting.

It would be cool to get a bigger sample...multiple games maybe. and broken down by game.

He just likes OPness. He has one in his mouth.

Sorry, somehow I started posting with an alt. Please be aware, that Jeb is me.

Very mature.

I've gone out of my way to be as unbiased and scientific as I can, and provide real, useful data, and this is the best you can comment with?

Interesting.

THEN WHO AM I?!?!?!!!

1.) SMG's in my opinion are overpowered (especially the proto version) HOWEVER this weapon has missed out on the nerf hammer because it's an under used weapon. It doesn't get reallllyyy good until you have the ishukone assault SMG with proficiency 4 or 5 so most people aren't willing to make that kind of investment. But that thing is literally the breach rifle on steroids. (in that it has the same range as the breach AR) but it shoots out FAR more bullets. Especially now with the range buffs to every gun. Seriously..... that thing is sooooo good and nobody besides me and some other vets have actually specced into them.

2.) The flaylock pistol IS OP, HOWEVER it is also a niche weapon. Some people don't like it because of a three round clip, others don't like it because it can do damage back, but nobody can deny that three of those rounds at your feet will kill you. I mean..... 200 splash damage??? really?? ffs man! It does better then actual missile launchers :/ and the real problem is with minmatar assaults running around with dual proto flaylocks! that coupled with the fact that weapon swap speed was increased makes it so that the flaylock pistol is practically a better version of the mass driver. Only it costs the same as a sidearm..... (isk/fitting wise).

3.) The fact that both of these weapons are above Scrambler rifles speak wonders. Sure! They have less kills in four matches then some of the more established and prominent guns in game, but at the end of the day that doesn't change them from being OP or Not OP. I mean..... the scrambler rifle is the answer to shield tanking, yet assault rifles are used more, and that's simply because its the most familiar weapon people see when coming into this game. Therefore people prefer them, therefore they are more common, therefore other weapons are less common, therefore people can get upset if they die from weapons there not used to dying from.

What would have been far more interesting is to post up the amount of instances each player in all four matches carried their specific weapons. There could have been 5 flaylock users in each match, but if only 1 or 2 of them got any kills that's all were seeing right now.

And even if it turns out there isn't that many users to specific guns, that too does not prove its balanced. Back in closed beta Tanks = god mode. CCP made them incredibly hard to kill so as to test out how people would react. They were the most overpowered thing this game has ever had. (imagine a tank that could tank 13 standard forge gun shots before its shields were gone). HOWEVER not everyone used them! In fact, its pretty easy to say only a majority of people specced into tanks at that time. I mean if there was 4 tanks per match that build, there was still 12 other people who didn't use them. The fact of the matter issssss

Preference > Weapon effectiveness

People will play more with what they enjoy rather then what is better at killing. This does not mean OP weapons like the Flaylock pistol don't exist, it just means that most people prefer not to use a gun as gimmicky as that.

So, I've seen, and commented on, the typical "it's not AR so nerf it posts" and have tried to explain that just because something kills you, but isn't an AR, that doesn't mean it's OP.

I've implored people to check out the killfeed so they can see, themselves, which weapons are dominating the game.

Knowing that most players won't bother, but will continue to champion their own little cause, I've done it for you.

I have compiled the killfeed from four skirmish games today in which I dropped alone. I removed my own kills from the tally. If you'd like, I can let you know what those are.

Here are the results:

Totals for all four matches combined:

Assault Rifle 100
Turrets 65
Sniper Rifle 44
HMG 37
Impact 35
SMG 34
Grenades 27
Misc 26
Mass Driver 20
Flaylock 16
Scrambler Rifle 13
Strike 12
Shotgun 10
Swarm Launcher 8
Forge Gun 5
Laser Rifle 5
Melee 1
RE 1
Unknown 1
Scrambler Pistol
Plasma Cannon
Nova Knives



Now, what can be learned from this. First off, it is clear that all the forum whining regarding Flaylock pistols is just that - whining. It is just number 10 on the killfeed, behind grenades, and significantly - far behind the SMG, another sidearm.


We can also see that players should probably consider carrying more AV, considering impact kills are number 5, and turrets (comprising installations and all vehicle turrets together) are number 2.

Most significantly, the most OP weapon on the battlefield, representing nearly 22% of all kills in Dust, is the AR. The next highest handheld weapon, the sniper rifle comes in at just 9% of overall kills. The much maligned Flaylock clocks in at less than 3.5% of all kills.

If anyone is interested in the raw data per fight, it is here:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Avo42h0_YoMNdEtzNWk4UWRENTRnWVpkQjZJQXhJUGc&usp=sharing


Now, before anyone jumps on and says why haven't I broken down this data into individual weapons, run more games, etc. I'm sorry. I'd like too, but I don't have video recording equipment, so I had my GF help by tallying all the kills in realtime, so sorry, this is as detailed as I can get.

All i'm gonna say is... I hope CCP knows now not to balance weapons by their use in public matches, and instead by their use in organized corp matches (see planetary conquest).

This doesn't represent "OP ness" it represents weapon preference.

1.) SMG's in my opinion are overpowered (especially the proto version) HOWEVER this weapon has missed out on the nerf hammer because it's an under used weapon. It doesn't get reallllyyy good until you have the ishukone assault SMG with proficiency 4 or 5 so most people aren't willing to make that kind of investment. But that thing is literally the breach rifle on steroids. (in that it has the same range as the breach AR) but it shoots out FAR more bullets. Especially now with the range buffs to every gun. Seriously..... that thing is sooooo good and nobody besides me and some other vets have actually specced into them.

2.) The flaylock pistol IS OP, HOWEVER it is also a niche weapon. Some people don't like it because of a three round clip, others don't like it because it can do damage back, but nobody can deny that three of those rounds at your feet will kill you. I mean..... 200 splash damage??? really?? ffs man! It does better then actual missile launchers :/ and the real problem is with minmatar assaults running around with dual proto flaylocks! that coupled with the fact that weapon swap speed was increased makes it so that the flaylock pistol is practically a better version of the mass driver. Only it costs the same as a sidearm..... (isk/fitting wise).

3.) The fact that both of these weapons are above Scrambler rifles speak wonders. Sure! They have less kills in four matches then some of the more established and prominent guns in game, but at the end of the day that doesn't change them from being OP or Not OP. I mean..... the scrambler rifle is the answer to shield tanking, yet assault rifles are used more, and that's simply because its the most familiar weapon people see when coming into this game. Therefore people prefer them, therefore they are more common, therefore other weapons are less common, therefore people can get upset if they die from weapons there not used to dying from.

What would have been far more interesting is to post up the amount of instances each player in all four matches carried their specific weapons. There could have been 5 flaylock users in each match, but if only 1 or 2 of them got any kills that's all were seeing right now.

And even if it turns out there isn't that many users to specific guns, that too does not prove its balanced. Back in closed beta Tanks = god mode. CCP made them incredibly hard to kill so as to test out how people would react. They were the most overpowered thing this game has ever had. (imagine a tank that could tank 13 standard forge gun shots before its shields were gone). HOWEVER not everyone used them! In fact, its pretty easy to say only a minority of people specced into tanks at that time. I mean if there was 4 tanks per match that build, there was still 12 other people who didn't use them. The fact of the matter issssss

Preference > Weapon effectiveness

People will play more with what they enjoy rather then what is better at killing. This does not mean OP weapons like the Flaylock pistol don't exist, it just means that most people prefer not to use a gun as gimmicky as that.

1.) SMG's in my opinion are overpowered (especially the proto version) HOWEVER this weapon has missed out on the nerf hammer because it's an under used weapon. It doesn't get reallllyyy good until you have the ishukone assault SMG with proficiency 4 or 5 so most people aren't willing to make that kind of investment. But that thing is literally the breach rifle on steroids. (in that it has the same range as the breach AR) but it shoots out FAR more bullets. Especially now with the range buffs to every gun. Seriously..... that thing is sooooo good and nobody besides me and some other vets have actually specced into them.

2.) The flaylock pistol IS OP, HOWEVER it is also a niche weapon. Some people don't like it because of a three round clip, others don't like it because it can do damage back, but nobody can deny that three of those rounds at your feet will kill you. I mean..... 200 splash damage??? really?? ffs man! It does better then actual missile launchers :/ and the real problem is with minmatar assaults running around with dual proto flaylocks! that coupled with the fact that weapon swap speed was increased makes it so that the flaylock pistol is practically a better version of the mass driver. Only it costs the same as a sidearm..... (isk/fitting wise).

3.) The fact that both of these weapons are above Scrambler rifles speak wonders. Sure! They have less kills in four matches then some of the more established and prominent guns in game, but at the end of the day that doesn't change them from being OP or Not OP. I mean..... the scrambler rifle is the answer to shield tanking, yet assault rifles are used more, and that's simply because its the most familiar weapon people see when coming into this game. Therefore people prefer them, therefore they are more common, therefore other weapons are less common, therefore people can get upset if they die from weapons there not used to dying from.

What would have been far more interesting is to post up the amount of instances each player in all four matches carried their specific weapons. There could have been 5 flaylock users in each match, but if only 1 or 2 of them got any kills that's all were seeing right now.

And even if it turns out there isn't that many users to specific guns, that too does not prove its balanced. Back in closed beta Tanks = god mode. CCP made them incredibly hard to kill so as to test out how people would react. They were the most overpowered thing this game has ever had. (imagine a tank that could tank 13 standard forge gun shots before its shields were gone). HOWEVER not everyone used them! In fact, its pretty easy to say only a minority of people specced into tanks at that time. I mean if there was 4 tanks per match that build, there was still 12 other people who didn't use them. The fact of the matter issssss

Preference > Weapon effectiveness

People will play more with what they enjoy rather then what is better at killing. This does not mean OP weapons like the Flaylock pistol don't exist, it just means that most people prefer not to use a gun as gimmicky as that.

Having a niche, by definition, means the weapon is capable of killing in it's preferred role, but not outside of it. This is made plainly clear by the numbers. The Flaylock has a niche, but is not OP.

The SMG, is also, less OP than the generalist weapon of the AR even considering that the AR is a "comfort weapon" for most players. Having said that, the AR represents more than twice the number of kills ans the next highest light weapon. That, my friend, is the definition of OP. The fact that more people carry it is just more evidence.

The SMG, is also, less OP than the generalist weapon of the AR even considering that the AR is a "comfort weapon" for most players. Having said that, the AR represents more than twice the number of kills ans the next highest light weapon. That, my friend, is the definition of OP. The fact that more people carry it is just more evidence.

No it's because the AR is the go to weapon in any shooter.

Flame war in 1,2,3....