DUST Search - Actual Data for OP weapon use and OPness

ZDub 303 wrote:

Buster Friently wrote:

I've heard this about PC. I've also stated that if someone actually put some numbers up, that I'd agree that the Flaylock is a problem for PC. I don't play PC. Most players don't.

People can respec, and have been given two so far. Also, with events like the 3x weekend we are currently having, people have the opportunity to get into other weapons. See, the thing is, they don't.

We are, what, 5 months since open beta began (3.65 mil SP from passive alone), and AR kills represent two thirds of all weapon kills from light and sidearm. That isn't preference, that a problem for diversity, that's OP.

That's only part of the picture... we need to spec into SO much more than just weapons. What you're saying may be true in another year or so... but for now people are still working on their first suit, and their core skills, they can only spare the SP to spec deep into a single weapon for the time being.

I know thats how it is for me... I have 15 million SP.. im still not done with core skills or modules I want, i'm millions away from finishing equipment still, I haven't touched grenades yet at all. I have only one suit I can use, and that is the cal logi I chose... to get cal assault i have to spend another 2.5 million SP... thats 5 weeks boosted and 8-9 weeks unboosted.

So no.. this game is extremely punishing in its SP system... which is fine.. this is what we all signed up for.. but you can't say "waaaa theres no weapon diversity nerf the AR!" when if you had the choice of only a single weapon, which would you pick? the situationally useful one or one that does decent in most situations?

However.. you still can't take these metrics and say the FP is somehow underpowered cause its not seeing the same number of kills in a match as the AR. It takes time and sp to spec the 610k SP you need to get FP Op 5, and thats SP you have to take away from the core skill you were planning to get. Not a lot of people are willing to do that yet.. but that still doesnt mean the weapon is not too powerful.

In the end the TTK on that gun is too low... it take 1.5s to fire all three shots.. and with 2.5m splash a skilled player can land all three no problem. That's a 1.5s TTK on any proto suit... that's too powerful... its almost impossible to dodge with 2.5m splash.. and even if you do.. a follow up fused locus and its over.

Nothing has that kind of consistent TTK on moving targets except for guns that 1 shot like Thales or FGs on direct hits.

AR can't do that on a moving target at all.. period.


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Jeb Kermman Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2013.07.07 21:53:00 - [1] - Quote Sloth9230 wrote: It's easier if you AFK True, but I don't AFK. Also, if anyone would like to present their own data, collected for Skirmish games or other types, I would be interested. Most of you, who know my posting, know that I believe the hard data trumps all, especially subjective impressions of how something "feels".
Jeb Kermman Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2013.07.07 21:55:00 - [2] - Quote Vin Vicious wrote: Just because a gun isn't used by everyone doesn't mean it's not OP, I just debunked your whole thread that you prob took 1-2hours to make, which means I'm OP /thread Actually it does, please see this: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=995224#post995224 Aside from that, it is still clear, by the numbers that the Flaylock, or MD, or whatever - non AR - is certainly not OP.
Jeb Kermman Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2013.07.07 23:59:00 - [3] - Quote ZDub 303 wrote: Buster Friently wrote: I've heard this about PC. I've also stated that if someone actually put some numbers up, that I'd agree that the Flaylock is a problem for PC. I don't play PC. Most players don't. People can respec, and have been given two so far. Also, with events like the 3x weekend we are currently having, people have the opportunity to get into other weapons. See, the thing is, they don't. We are, what, 5 months since open beta began (3.65 mil SP from passive alone), and AR kills represent two thirds of all weapon kills from light and sidearm. That isn't preference, that a problem for diversity, that's OP. That's only part of the picture... we need to spec into SO much more than just weapons. What you're saying may be true in another year or so... but for now people are still working on their first suit, and their core skills, they can only spare the SP to spec deep into a single weapon for the time being. I know thats how it is for me... I have 15 million SP.. im still not done with core skills or modules I want, i'm millions away from finishing equipment still, I haven't touched grenades yet at all. I have only one suit I can use, and that is the cal logi I chose... to get cal assault i have to spend another 2.5 million SP... thats 5 weeks boosted and 8-9 weeks unboosted. So no.. this game is extremely punishing in its SP system... which is fine.. this is what we all signed up for.. but you can't say "waaaa theres no weapon diversity nerf the AR!" when if you had the choice of only a single weapon, which would you pick? the situationally useful one or one that does decent in most situations? However.. you still can't take these metrics and say the FP is somehow underpowered cause its not seeing the same number of kills in a match as the AR. It takes time and sp to spec the 610k SP you need to get FP Op 5, and thats SP you have to take away from the core skill you were planning to get. Not a lot of people are willing to do that yet.. but that still doesnt mean the weapon is not too powerful. In the end the TTK on that gun is too low... it take 1.5s to fire all three shots.. and with 2.5m splash a skilled player can land all three no problem. That's a 1.5s TTK on any proto suit... that's too powerful... its almost impossible to dodge with 2.5m splash.. and even if you do.. a follow up fused locus and its over. Nothing has that kind of consistent TTK on moving targets except for guns that 1 shot like Thales or FGs on direct hits. AR can't do that on a moving target at all.. period. This is semi true. What you describe is a choice as well. For example, I have three weapons into proficiency, and most of my core skills. I don't have any proto suits though. So people do spec differently as well. I'd also like to point out that we saw plenty of people jump into the TAR bandwagon rapidly, despite it being meta 4 or 5. Granted it was in the AR tree, and still is, but we've also had respecs since then too. So, people can move, but I agree it isn't entirely fluid. My point is that based on the data, now, the FP is not OP. If anything is, it's the AR. this is all subject to change as the game evolves though.
Jeb Kermman Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2013.07.08 00:00:00 - [4] - Quote Delta 749 wrote: Buster Friently wrote: Delta 749 wrote: Over used =/= over powered Sorry you are not a winner, please try again It does because to be OP, a weapon must hurt overall diversity. Like the AR. The skill system is what hurts overall diversity, people have explained that and many other points that discredit your list but if you want to keep your head in the sand insisting its overpowered just because its the most common weapon be my guest Well, it is. By definition.