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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Dengru
Red Star. EoN.
66
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 20:54:00 -
[121] - Quote
lol that game where you threw that metal blade thing around... |
Xero The Mishima
Vherokior Combat Logistics Minmatar Republic
169
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 20:57:00 -
[122] - Quote
Dengru wrote:lol that game where you threw that metal blade thing around...
Never heard of it. It was a popular shooter? |
Buster Friently
Rosen Association
1151
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 20:58:00 -
[123] - Quote
Xero The Mishima wrote:Buster Friently wrote:Daxxis KANNAH wrote:WhiskeyJack Otako wrote:Daxxis KANNAH wrote:Have faith - CCP actually did good with the TAC and I think they could do similar with the Flaylock (standardized radius and lower RoF)
People will claim it is ruined but users who actually love it and use it properly should still be effective.
I dont praise CCP often but I think what they did there and what Remnant has posted about weapons and ranges seem fair. Really? How many TARs do you encounter these days? Not many if any. I think they overdid it as they do.. See, that shouldn't be the measure. I bet many of them went back to GEK's Duvolle's or skilled into ScR's. Maybe they are the ones running dual flaylocks now. I still get killed by them sometimes but obviously if many of the users arent going to learn the strength of a weapon and just drop it as soon as they heard it was nerfed how will you see it. The same will happen, people will leave the flaylock if they have to pause between shots or have to line up shots more than just spam etc but others who like and use it should be able to use it well. It should be the measure. There's no need for any other weapons if everyone is going to run the AR. The only future proof weapon in dust. Doesn't sound fun to me, but meh, that's where we're heading. Name a shooter the AR isn't the premiere weapon?
Tribes. Any of them.
Pretty much any old school shooter.
Also, just because the AR is the lowest common denominator doesn't mean it's what Dust should revolve around. I thought Dust was trying to be different.
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Xero The Mishima
Vherokior Combat Logistics Minmatar Republic
169
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 20:59:00 -
[124] - Quote
It should be the measure. There's no need for any other weapons if everyone is going to run the AR. The only future proof weapon in dust. Doesn't sound fun to me, but meh, that's where we're heading. [/quote]
Name a shooter the AR isn't the premiere weapon?[/quote]
Tribes. Any of them.
Pretty much any old school shooter.
Also, just because the AR is the lowest common denominator doesn't mean it's what Dust should revolve around. I thought Dust was trying to be different. [/quote]
Look where difference is leading them? |
Sloth9230
Deepspace Digital
2400
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 21:01:00 -
[125] - Quote
Daxxis KANNAH wrote:Have faith - CCP actually did good with the TAC and I think they could do similar with the Flaylock (standardized radius and lower RoF)
People will claim it is ruined but users who actually love it and use it properly should still be effective.
I dont praise CCP often but I think what they did there and what Remnant has posted about weapons and ranges seem fair. You site the TAC rifle, and yet... how many things did they actually change on it? If anything, the tac rifle is proof that CCP doesn't know what they're actually doing, they just make a bunch of changes and hope it works.
When they first nerfed the HMG, they nerfed range AND damage, do you not see how stupid that was? When trying to balance something, you need to change as few variable as little as possible, not drastic changes. Dmg and range were overkill in the HMGs case, so bad that they actually had to go back and re-buff it.
This si why people always assume OP stuff is going to get nerfed to ****, because it's what CCP does. |
Daxxis KANNAH
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
202
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 21:01:00 -
[126] - Quote
I like how it is in Gears - The AR is bread and butter but all of the weapons are way cooler and can be far superior in the right hands.
Obviously in Dust they need to strike the right balance because weapons have to be skilled into but really and truly, many people crying about the FP are doing so because they are running headlong into battle and around corners and getting blasted.
They arent fighting at range where they can dodge the missiles, especially after the range patch made the rifles better.
This is not to say that the weapon doesnt need to be addressed but it also speaks to how some want it their way all the time. |
Dengru
Red Star. EoN.
66
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 21:01:00 -
[127] - Quote
Xero The Mishima wrote:Dengru wrote:lol that game where you threw that metal blade thing around... Never heard of it. It was a popular shooter?
No not really. Lots of promotions and expectations surrounded it at the time. The gameplay was built around a blade thing the guy could control like a boomerang. It's funny he'd mention it... so arbitrary. Also it was primarily a single player game. |
Sloth9230
Deepspace Digital
2400
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 21:02:00 -
[128] - Quote
Dengru wrote:Xero The Mishima wrote:Dengru wrote:lol that game where you threw that metal blade thing around... Never heard of it. It was a popular shooter? No not really. Lots of promotions and expectations surrounded it at the time. The gameplay was built around a blade thing the guy could control like a boomerang. It's funny he'd mention it... so arbitrary. Also it was primarily a single player game. His only qualifier was shooter |
Buster Friently
Rosen Association
1151
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 21:02:00 -
[129] - Quote
Xero The Mishima wrote:
It should be the measure. There's no need for any other weapons if everyone is going to run the AR. The only future proof weapon in dust. Doesn't sound fun to me, but meh, that's where we're heading.
Name a shooter the AR isn't the premiere weapon?
Tribes. Any of them.
Pretty much any old school shooter.
Also, just because the AR is the lowest common denominator doesn't mean it's what Dust should revolve around. I thought Dust was trying to be different.
Look where difference is leading them?[/quote]
What difference? They seem committed to king AR to me. Sameness is leading them in a bad direction, not differences. There are far too few differences to really point to. |
Buster Friently
Rosen Association
1151
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 21:06:00 -
[130] - Quote
Daxxis KANNAH wrote:I like how it is in Gears - The AR is bread and butter but all of the weapons are way cooler and can be far superior in the right hands.
Obviously in Dust they need to strike the right balance because weapons have to be skilled into but really and truly, many people crying about the FP are doing so because they are running headlong into battle and around corners and getting blasted.
They arent fighting at range where they can dodge the missiles, especially after the range patch made the rifles better.
This is not to say that the weapon doesnt need to be addressed but it also speaks to how some want it their way all the time.
QFT.
Stupid is winning apparently. This shouldn't be the case in New Eden. |
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Daxxis KANNAH
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
202
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 21:08:00 -
[131] - Quote
Sloth9230 wrote:Daxxis KANNAH wrote:Have faith - CCP actually did good with the TAC and I think they could do similar with the Flaylock (standardized radius and lower RoF)
People will claim it is ruined but users who actually love it and use it properly should still be effective.
I dont praise CCP often but I think what they did there and what Remnant has posted about weapons and ranges seem fair. You site the TAC rifle, and yet... how many things did they actually change on it? If anything, the tac rifle is proof that CCP doesn't know what they're actually doing, they just make a bunch of changes and hope it works. When they first nerfed the HMG, they nerfed range AND damage, do you not see how stupid that was? When trying to balance something, you need to change as few variable as little as possible, not drastic changes. Dmg and range were overkill in the HMGs case, so bad that they actually had to go back and re-buff it. This si why people always assume OP stuff is going to get nerfed to ****, because it's what CCP does.
How so (re TAC) - They correctly imo brought down the RoF and they made it less accurate in hip fire which maybe more controversial but it is a weapon that should be used at range and if it is used that way it will still kill while allowing the user to keep distance.
The AR on the other hand probably needs real recoil to force users to do focused fire because right now with no skills I just drop it on the target and pull the trigger - no adjustment needed if opponent doesnt move no matter the distance. |
Sloth9230
Deepspace Digital
2403
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 21:10:00 -
[132] - Quote
Fine, Halo, sure, the regular AR is the main gun everyone first uses, but everyone who isn't a scrub uses the battle rifle. And even though Battle Rifles were the most popular, the other guns also got plenty of use.
Lets see anyone trade their AR for the Burst in this game |
Bad Heal
PwNdCaKeSnRapLeSyrup
22
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 21:11:00 -
[133] - Quote
Why does the flaylock do more splash damage than a Large Missile Turret? And why does it have a faster rate of fire than the MD with more damage? And why can two be equipped with 4 rounds each? |
Sloth9230
Deepspace Digital
2403
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 21:13:00 -
[134] - Quote
Daxxis KANNAH wrote:Sloth9230 wrote:Daxxis KANNAH wrote:Have faith - CCP actually did good with the TAC and I think they could do similar with the Flaylock (standardized radius and lower RoF)
People will claim it is ruined but users who actually love it and use it properly should still be effective.
I dont praise CCP often but I think what they did there and what Remnant has posted about weapons and ranges seem fair. You site the TAC rifle, and yet... how many things did they actually change on it? If anything, the tac rifle is proof that CCP doesn't know what they're actually doing, they just make a bunch of changes and hope it works. When they first nerfed the HMG, they nerfed range AND damage, do you not see how stupid that was? When trying to balance something, you need to change as few variable as little as possible, not drastic changes. Dmg and range were overkill in the HMGs case, so bad that they actually had to go back and re-buff it. This si why people always assume OP stuff is going to get nerfed to ****, because it's what CCP does. How so (re TAC) - They correctly imo brought down the RoF and they made it less accurate in hip fire which maybe more controversial but it is a weapon that should be used at range and if it is used that way it will still kill while allowing the user to keep distance. The AR on the other hand probably needs real recoil to force users to do focused fire because right now with no skills I just drop it on the target and pull the trigger - no adjustment needed if opponent doesnt move no matter the distance.
Well the RoF change was obvious, but everything else? Like the ammo, why did that need a change after the RoF nerf? My point is CCPs busts out a flamethrower to light the candles on a birthday cake. |
Minor Treat
The Enclave Syndicate Dark Taboo
9
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 21:15:00 -
[135] - Quote
Another Heavy SOB wrote:It's hilarious that people are actually defending this broke ass gun. I guess you all just don't want to lose your little k/d padding noon tube.
Seriously you cannot tell me with a straight face that ANY of you claiming it's NOT OP could attain anywhere near such a level of combat efficiency with ANY other sidearm.
Gun is broke, and it saps the fun from the game for Anybody NOT using it. very true, most of my friends quit because of that weapon |
Lance 2ballzStrong
SyNergy Gaming EoN.
2802
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 21:15:00 -
[136] - Quote
Bad Heal wrote:Why does the flaylock do more splash damage than a Large Missile Turret? And why does it have a faster rate of fire than the MD with more damage? And why can two be equipped with 4 rounds each?
cuz... CCP |
Minor Treat
The Enclave Syndicate Dark Taboo
9
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 21:16:00 -
[137] - Quote
Bad Heal wrote:Why does the flaylock do more splash damage than a Large Missile Turret? And why does it have a faster rate of fire than the MD with more damage? And why can two be equipped with 4 rounds each? OP |
Sloth9230
Deepspace Digital
2403
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 21:18:00 -
[138] - Quote
Bad Heal wrote:Why can my tank not slaughter infantry? And why does a low -mid range weapon behave differently from a mid - high range weapon that is completely different aside from both having splash damage? And why am I allowed to ask such a stupid question? |
TEXA5 HiTM4N
ROGUE SPADES EoN.
103
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 21:19:00 -
[139] - Quote
hell give a 2 second delay that way it cannot be spammed on 1v1 fights. |
Daxxis KANNAH
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
203
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 21:22:00 -
[140] - Quote
Sloth9230 wrote: Well the RoF change was obvious, but everything else? Like the ammo, why did that need a change after the RoF nerf? My point is CCPs busts out a flamethrower to light the candles on a birthday cake.
I'll give you that - Ammo (clip size) should have stayed the same, especially with ScR where a skilled user could do well on a charged shot plus a few follow ups. |
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Lance 2ballzStrong
SyNergy Gaming EoN.
2803
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 21:24:00 -
[141] - Quote
Sloth9230 wrote:Well the RoF change was obvious, but everything else? Like the ammo, why did that need a change after the RoF nerf? My point is CCPs busts out a flamethrower to light the candles on a birthday cake.
The role of the tact. AR now is that of a Battle Rifle / Semi Auto medium range sniper rifle. Usually these guns have a smaller mag size in most games. So that I was expecting.
I'll give you examples from lolBF3... the SKS (20 in the mag) and MK11 (10 in the mag)... both are TECHNICALLY a battle rifle, semi auto at that. The other battle rifle, that is classed under assault rifles is the G3, that has 20 bullets in the mag, compared to the other AR's 31.
Harder hitting weapons should have less bullets for it to be balanced. How much less? That's up to how much dmg it does, the accuracy of the weapon, scope sway, etc... and up to the dev in the end. |
Acezero 44
Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State
93
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 21:28:00 -
[142] - Quote
Sloth9230 wrote:major faux-pas wrote:Burntface man112 wrote:CCP Mintchip wrote:We are taking this feedback very seriously and are looking into a solution that will bring balance to this weapon :) So, hopefully it's to your liking and in the future please don't hesitate with your concerns! AWESOME! i was so close to quiting this game because i ran into 3 matches of Core Flaylock spammers who just ran logi flaylock. Almost went back to BF3 hoping you guys bring in something special before BF4 +100 Thats out of about 110 people ive spoken to 'in passing' regarding the flaylock. I dont play very much any more. A good game in beta just got annoying. Closed beta was plagued by op rocket launchers getting instant kills, open beta by massdrivers, how the flaylock got through early stages of quality control i have no idea. Just look to these imbalanced LAVs (which of course will be used as murder taxis) to see just how wrong things can be when released. so i think there are two overarching problems here A) problem at hand: how to balance the flaylock. B) how to prevent this with all the other new things on the way. Re A), my 2p is that 1) ROF should come down (its an impact sensitive explosive, it should be handled carefully inside the chambers of the weapon) 2) connected to point 1, occasionally they should backfire, this is nothing strange, scramblers overheat. 3) shells that fit inside a pistol will be small, and as such, should do LOW damage. 4) the barrel of a pistol is SHORT, thus accuraccy should be bad. Sure, keep the weapon for diversity, but it needs to come down a long way (cue the 1000 hardcore flaylock users outrage). Its not even a primary, the fact you are using it as one shows it is op. its nothing personal. Sir, you couldn't balance the ratio between bacon and vegetables in an epic meal.
oooOh Maaan ! I think its time, Epic Meal Time
Soo.. About that flaylock, |
Zero Harpuia
WarRavens League of Infamy
609
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 00:09:00 -
[143] - Quote
Sloth9230 wrote:Bad Heal wrote:Why can my tank not slaughter infantry? And why does a low -mid range weapon behave differently from a mid - high range weapon that is completely different aside from both having splash damage? And why am I allowed to ask such a stupid question? 1. because you're in a tank 2. why do snipers get outdamaged by shotguns? 3. because they can, not that it's a good idea, Scrambler/AR + Flaylock is far deadlier
He makes a few good points.
1. With the much larger size and payload, you'd think the LMT missiles would do far more damage than the FP's tiny charge. We can visibly affirm that the LMT rounds are at least 10x bigger than a FP's, so where does all that go? 2. Your shotgun/sniper thing is cute, but not only are these both Light class weapons, but they both do comparable damage at their own best ranges and are useless anywhere else. A FP is a Sidearm that performs better than it's Light weapon brother. Scrambler Pistols are not better than Scrambler Rifles, and SMGs are not better than ARs, just because of a lack of range. This is because they are a much smaller weapons system, much cheaper to fit, and balanced accordingly. 3. As for why they dual-equip the FP, it is because the thing has the lightest fitting requirements for a gun PERIOD throughout the entire game, combined with the immense power and AOE of the weapon, which makes the gun highly appealing to those with high fitting requirement modules/equipment. |
Sloth9230
Deepspace Digital
2409
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 00:21:00 -
[144] - Quote
Zero Harpuia wrote:[Scrambler Pistols are not better than Scrambler Rifles, and SMGs are not better than ARs, just because of a lack of range. Scrambler pistols are better than rifles if you're good at headshots, and the SMG is better than the AR when up against armor, being sidearms does not make them completely inferior when compared to their light counterparts.
Now whether this remains true with their actual counterparts (AR to gallnte pistol and SMG to combat rifle) has yet to be seen. |
Henchmen21
Vherokior Combat Logistics Minmatar Republic
40
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 01:18:00 -
[145] - Quote
When so many people are using it as a primary weapon something is wrong. There will always be those guys that run around with only sidearms, just because he can. But when everyone is doing it's its probably too easy. |
Dexter307
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
69
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 01:18:00 -
[146] - Quote
Zero Harpuia wrote:Scrambler Pistols are not better than Scrambler Rifles Scrambler pistols destroy scrambler rifles at close range especially with headshots |
Buster Friently
Rosen Association
1153
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 02:04:00 -
[147] - Quote
Henchmen21 wrote:When so many people are using it as a primary weapon something is wrong. There will always be those guys that run around with only Assault Rifles, just because he can. But when everyone is doing it's its probably too easy.
FTFY |
D legendary hero
THE WARRIORS OF LEGEND
368
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 03:23:00 -
[148] - Quote
CCP Mintchip wrote:We are taking this feedback very seriously and are looking into a solution that will bring balance to this weapon :) So, hopefully it's to your liking and in the future please don't hesitate with your concerns!
Flaylocks need the following:
1. ROF nerf. the speed at which they fire is what irritates most people. solution: give it the same ROF as the breach scrambler pistol. 2. reload speed nerf. it reloads so fast that missing dowsnt count the blast radius is supposed to compensate for inaccuracy not the reload speed. solution: give it a 3.5 second reload speed. 3. blast radius buff. everyone here who has died to a flaylock pistol has died to an advanced or core flaylock pistol because the blast radius on the std flaylock and breach flaylock are horrible, and a waste of ISK and SP. how to fix this? solution: give all flaylocks a .5m increase in blast radius. this way it doesnt become a waste of SP.
hidden problem. 4. not many people realize it but most of the QQ's here are galente. i dnt blame them. with the way armor sucks, flaylocks only exacerbate the problem by sometimes insta killing galent suits. solution: the underlying issue here is that armor needs a buff. therefore, armor and armor tanking must be fixed to end this problem.
OTHER: the above should handle all valid complaints. for all other complaints. compare the SMGs damage per clip, and the scrambler pistols damage per clip, with the flaylock's damage per clip. militia SMG = 25 ,000; militia pistol scrambler = 432 (scrambler pistol actually needs a buff badly. but remember the headshot bonus is 400%); flaylocks = 660.
so, flaylocks keep in line with the other side arm damage per clip. but the flaylocks need the samae fire rate as the breach scrambler pistol inorder to be balanced against them. trust me i have core flaylocks. flaylocks are no where near as OP as people say. but they are close to becoming OP. doing the aforementioned will balance them out.
as for the "OMGZ HE ONE SHOT ME....". if you have low health you will got one shot. its the same if a grenade kills you in one shot, or if a plasma cannon hits you in one shot. or a sniper kills you in one shot.... in fact, no one complainst about snipers killing you in 3 shots, and you can't shoot them back they are too far away....lol.
final point. if you get killed by a flaylock in CQB. don't be angy or upset because flaylocks are supposed to excel in CQB. ARs are not supposed to excel in CQB so there is no reason why an AR should beat a flaylock in CQB, just as it shouldnt beat an SMG or a shotgun or a scrambler pistol (scrambler pistols need a buff to chromosome level though.)
CONCLUSION
by giving the flaylock pistols (STD, ADV, PROTO) the same reload speed as the SMG (3.5 seconds), the same fire rate as the breach scrambler pistol (133.3 rpm), and a .5 increase in blast radius (for all lvls the STD, ADV, PROTO). the flaylocks advantages will be balanced against its disadvantages.
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ZDub 303
TeamPlayers EoN.
960
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 03:29:00 -
[149] - Quote
D legendary hero wrote: CONCLUSION
by giving the flaylock pistols (STD, ADV, PROTO) the same reload speed as the SMG (3.5 seconds), the same fire rate as the breach scrambler pistol (133.3 rpm), and a .5 increase in blast radius (for all lvls the STD, ADV, PROTO). the flaylocks advantages will be balanced against its disadvantages.
TL:DR - In Conclusion, the std and adv variants aren't OP enough, please buff the flaylock pistol!! |
RINON114
B.S.A.A. General Tso's Alliance
286
|
Posted - 2013.07.17 04:29:00 -
[150] - Quote
ZDub 303 wrote:D legendary hero wrote: CONCLUSION
by giving the flaylock pistols (STD, ADV, PROTO) the same reload speed as the SMG (3.5 seconds), the same fire rate as the breach scrambler pistol (133.3 rpm), and a .5 increase in blast radius (for all lvls the STD, ADV, PROTO). the flaylocks advantages will be balanced against its disadvantages.
TL:DR - In Conclusion, the std and adv variants aren't OP enough, please buff the flaylock pistol!! Exactly. Anybody who owns a core flaylock and says they aren't OP is lying out their arse. I have a standard flaylock just to keep up in part with the core flaylock users and that thing is incredible! I hit one guy dead on and he just popped. Even the standard variant is OP as hell.
My suggestion for a nerf could go two ways - Increase splash radius, lower splash damage. Lower the direct damage of all variants to be the same as the basic variants and balance accordingly.
OR
Keep direct damage as it is and lower the splash damage and splash radius by a lot. |
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