The most concerning, game-breaking component of Dust as far as Dropships are concerned are Railgun tank red-line snipers. It's a mouthfull, but that use of the tank makes it so over powered its ridiculous. There are moments i have been literally about 1,500 feet in the air and out of no where all i hear is a little "tick" noise and more than half of my ADS's shield is down (mind you i have a 31% shield resist) and there is absolutely no way to tell where the shot came from. When i lower the ds down to investigate where exactly the shot came from, i get hit yet again because the tank is constantly able to watch me behind the red-lined area of their side. It's the most pathetic, useless, and disgusting tactic i have ever witnessed in all of my time playing Dust, and i hope it's abolished quickly.

The most concerning, game-breaking component of Dust as far as Dropships are concerned are Railgun tank red-line snipers. It's a mouthfull, but that use of the tank makes it so over powered its ridiculous. There are moments i have been literally about 1,500 feet in the air and out of no where all i hear is a little "tick" noise and more than half of my ADS's shield is down (mind you i have a 31% shield resist) and there is absolutely no way to tell where the shot came from. When i lower the ds down to investigate where exactly the shot came from, i get hit yet again because the tank is constantly able to watch me behind the red-lined area of their side. It's the most pathetic, useless, and disgusting tactic i have ever witnessed in all of my time playing Dust, and i hope it's abolished quickly.

What's new about this again?

The most broken part about it is they are basically immune to being killed, except for maybe a lucky orbital. Anything else, they just roll back behind their little mountain and recall.

CCP doesn't actually intend for Dropships to be used in normal games.

I've destroyed quite a few dropships with the railgun installations.

What's new about this again?

The most broken part about it is they are basically immune to being killed, except for maybe a lucky orbital. Anything else, they just roll back behind their little mountain and recall.

CCP doesn't actually intend for Dropships to be used in normal games.

There's really not much more we can do aside from redlining. Potent AV has become more and more common. I still try to stay with the group in my Gunnlogi, but I've noticed that there are a lot more AV'ers out there, forcing me to hide and recall.

you can look at it this way, if we where on the battlefield then all you would have to do is fly circle's around us to take us out, since our turrets don't go that far up, making it impossible to kill you's. Meaning we can only kill you from a distance with a rail tank. That and the fact that now a days it only take's one hit from an av grenade or a swarm launcher and the tank is gone, so most of us either snipe or risk loosing that one tank.

Ive been told to play a vehicle (esp flying) you need ground game running around to tank out AV. Sounds like tanks just need a single AV player to keep DS away (truth, that's all it takes). Its a team game. Redline is different than playing smart or having a good team to cover all positions. It's just boring and cheap.

I don't blame tankers though. I blame the game mechanics. This is something CCP needs to address, you'll never stop player behavior because it's unsavory or bad for the game overall.

If AFKing is a problem, CCP needs to prevent it.
If MCC sniping is a problem, CCP needs to stop it.
If Redline playing is a problem, CCP needs to alter or abolish the redline.

Till then, keep at it but know I'm not impressed :P

yes well historically long range artillery is usually a pain in the butt, countered only by finding their position... which would be the job of well... aircraft usually.... with the extended map for aerial units, a dropship is actually the one unit capable of destroying rail snipers with any frequency.

What a load Pig,
If AV was non existent it would not preclude or curb the existence of redline rail tanking in ANY way.

Agreed, AV is ridiculous but please quit pretending that if we buff tanks or nerf AV that red rails will disappear. We're not that stupid.

Weapon locks in the redline fixes redline snipers and rail tanks.

yes well historically long range artillery is usually a pain in the butt, countered only by finding their position... which would be the job of well... aircraft usually.... with the extended map for aerial units, a dropship is actually the one unit capable of destroying rail snipers with any frequency.

no this just makes it way safer to redline an entire team, "oh noes we lost all our objectives, why cant i shoot back? CCP BRING BACK REDLINE SHOOTING QQ"

redline artillery is a very viable way to play this game, do you expect a bank of howitzers to sit where you can come and shoot them because it is fair?

Guys this is adapt or die. This is war.

no this just makes it way safer to redline an entire team, "oh noes we lost all our objectives, why cant i shoot back? CCP BRING BACK REDLINE SHOOTING QQ"

redline artillery is a very viable way to play this game, do you expect a bank of howitzers to sit where you can come and shoot them because it is fair?

Guys this is adapt or die. This is war.

What's new about this again?

The most broken part about it is they are basically immune to being killed, except for maybe a lucky orbital. Anything else, they just roll back behind their little mountain and recall.

CCP doesn't actually intend for Dropships to be used in normal games.

no this just makes it way safer to redline an entire team, "oh noes we lost all our objectives, why cant i shoot back? CCP BRING BACK REDLINE SHOOTING QQ"

redline artillery is a very viable way to play this game, do you expect a bank of howitzers to sit where you can come and shoot them because it is fair?

Guys this is adapt or die. This is war.

So real howitzers get shot once, and then the driver rolls it back, calls it out, and brings a shiny new one onto the field 15 seconds later?

I've been using tanks and I think that's just ****ing borked. make it so you can't call in vehicles for a minute or something after using the callback.

What a load Pig,
If AV was non existent it would not preclude or curb the existence of redline rail tanking in ANY way.

Agreed, AV is ridiculous but please quit pretending that if we buff tanks or nerf AV that red rails will disappear. We're not that stupid. And PS, tank recall is being abused.

If AV were nonexistent, this wouldn't be a fun game. I like being shot at. It means someone has decided that I'm a big enough threat to them that they need to go out of their way to target me specifically, meaning the other blueberries don't have to worry too much about him going after them.

If you've read a few of my walls of text in the past, I actually believe tanks and dropships are in good spots right now. The HP values allow for taking a handful of shots to the face, allowing decent enough time to find cover. A few values need to be tweaked, but for the most part, the problem stems from how easy it is to skill into these weapons, and I can't honestly come up with a viable solution aside from "LOLMORESPSINKS", which no one wants.

I also know that redline tanks will never go away until there is no redline. The path of least resistance will always be favorable. Why risk going out in the open when I'm safe behind these hills? I like moving with the blue dots, popping installations / would-be murder taxi's, but the ease, power, and quantity of AV on the field is forcing me further and further back until there's really no point in me calling in vehicles anymore, putting my 10m SP to waste because the other guy spent under 1m on his proto swarm.

if i were to rage about swarms being over powered, id be called a troll odds are. they only do 3k dmg with all my hardeners running and can take hairpin turns with ease :D

Railgun Sniping ain't what you are all making it out to be..... The Draw Distance makes spotting anything finicky @ best. More often than not I can't see a Dropship before it gets into its Optimal Position (On top of a Structure) where it is thusly recalled. What proceeds is an unavoidable Time-Sink of HAVs & Dropships no longer being called out on the opposite side (LAVs are mostly exempt) due to the now impervious positioning of an Assault FG & LOLSwarm (You only need 1, but 2 = Map Win). Add a Sniper to the mix (In a Logi Suit of course....) & you now have a 3-Man Cell capable of Total Map Control with no fear of opposition.

An Assault Dropship can essentially frustrate & pin a Tank if the Pilot is skilled. Couple the Draw Distance Issues (Often targets disappear even as I move CLOSER to it.....) with a quick moving Vehicle that can hide out of range of EVERYTHING & swoop down overhead to persistently pester, causing a game of Cat & Mouse to commence where nobody wins. Then, from out of nowhere, the hidden Dropship deploys AV right next to you, & there goes the Tank.

Dropships are technically in a better place than Tanks due to Applications & Flight Ceiling Abuse. Not to say they don't need some love (WP/Spawn) but I assure you that a Skilled Pilot will survive just fine. Tanks will continue Redline Sniping b/c EVERYTHING is their Counter:

LAV + Lai Dai Packed = FEAR
Proto Assault Forge (Idk why a faster RoF gets more Damage than Standard.....illogical, Variant is OP) = Terror
***Proto Swarms = Auto-Loss (Pre-Module Activated @ Full Shield before hit on Max Madrugar = 2/3 Armor HP left, only survives if Insta-Recall after 1st hit)***
Dropship dropping off AV or playing Hide 'n Seek w/ Flight Ceiling
Other Redline Sniping Tank....

The only thing not an issue to Vehicles are Plasma Cannon (Dumbfire w/ Arc & low Damage/Range). So until there is Balance to where 1 AV guy can't Solo the Map (Even w/o OP height advantage.....) & Draw Distance Issues are fixed, there is no incentive to stop Redline Rail Sniping. Everyone tries to protect their investment.....& ours (Vehicles minus LAV) runs the Wallet into the Red for 5-10 Matches (STD & ENF respectively) @ the loss of just 1. Anyone b**ching about someone trying to avoid Death is an ignoramus & a liability on the field of Battle.

Railgun Sniping ain't what you are all making it out to be..... The Draw Distance makes spotting anything finicky @ best. More often than not I can't see a Dropship before it gets into its Optimal Position (On top of a Structure) where it is thusly recalled. What proceeds is an unavoidable Time-Sink of HAVs & Dropships no longer being called out on the opposite side (LAVs are mostly exempt) due to the now impervious positioning of an Assault FG & LOLSwarm (You only need 1, but 2 = Map Win). Add a Sniper to the mix (In a Logi Suit of course....) & you now have a 3-Man Cell capable of Total Map Control with no fear of opposition.

An Assault Dropship can essentially frustrate & pin a Tank if the Pilot is skilled. Couple the Draw Distance Issues (Often targets disappear even as I move CLOSER to it.....) with a quick moving Vehicle that can hide out of range of EVERYTHING & swoop down overhead to persistently pester, causing a game of Cat & Mouse to commence where nobody wins. Then, from out of nowhere, the hidden Dropship deploys AV right next to you, & there goes the Tank.

Dropships are technically in a better place than Tanks due to Applications & Flight Ceiling Abuse. Not to say they don't need some love (WP/Spawn) but I assure you that a Skilled Pilot will survive just fine. Tanks will continue Redline Sniping b/c EVERYTHING is their Counter:

LAV + Lai Dai Packed = FEAR
Proto Assault Forge (Idk why a faster RoF gets more Damage than Standard.....illogical, Variant is OP) = Terror
***Proto Swarms = Auto-Loss (Pre-Module Activated @ Full Shield before hit on Max Madrugar = 2/3 Armor HP left, only survives if Insta-Recall after 1st hit)***
Dropship dropping off AV or playing Hide 'n Seek w/ Flight Ceiling
Other Redline Sniping Tank....

The only thing not an issue to Vehicles are Plasma Cannon (Dumbfire w/ Arc & low Damage/Range). So until there is Balance to where 1 AV guy can't Solo the Map (Even w/o OP height advantage.....) & Draw Distance Issues are fixed, there is no incentive to stop Redline Rail Sniping. Everyone tries to protect their investment.....& ours (Vehicles minus LAV) runs the Wallet into the Red for 5-10 Matches (STD & ENF respectively) @ the loss of just 1. Anyone b**ching about someone trying to avoid Death is an ignoramus & a liability on the field of Battle.

I'm a tanker and I try not to redline snipe like I did in Chromosome (42:0 on Man us Peak was average), but it's hard. See, if we get too close to AV, we can get soloed. If tankers were 50% cheaper, we could make a profit by living through 3 matches instead of six, and therefore, would be less inclined to rail snipe.

That being said, drop ships need a major defensive and offensive buff. Rail guns are fine the way they are. At least y'all don't render past 300m and we don't do 5000 DMG per shot anymore.

Drop ships need to cos t 10% of wut they do now

I've taken down 3 dropships already today with AV grenades.
This is my favorite new thing.

Don't forget we are getting a HAV specifically designed for anti aircraft. No one asked for it, but here it comes. Ccp doesn't read about or play this game.

Ccp is like the honey badger. It don't care.

ive been asking for aa tanks for months now guy. so yes people have been asking for them.

Why I redline snipe:

Because there is always a redline sniper rail tank on the other side.


I got sick of running a blaster tank only for the opposition to just call down a rail tank on the hill and get me before I can tell what direction they are actually firing from.

So. I have become THAT guy.

However, I would suggest running a redline sniper tank if you want to learn how to better use your dropship.


I am a much better dropship pilot now knowing where and how that tank will operate.

Except it's completely unreasonable to have anti-air tanks when you already have tanks that are completely capable of being "anti-air" with their redline railgun sniping, so why you would even want an "anti-air" tank is stupid, because you already have the best all around anti-vehicle, anti-air, anti-infantry vehicle in the entire game. Well, apart from their also game-breaking "Murder taxi" that makes this game mario-cart 514 for many infantry players getting ran over and unable to do anything about it. Also, Soldiersaint, link me to a well-supported thread where there is a mass conscientious for "anti-air" tanks, because there isn't one.

I would but it would cost too much SP to skill into just to learn, and i do have a very good idea on how to avoid them, but that doesn't mean the good ones can abosolutely demolish me if i don't notice them at first. I have learned as a DS pilot where they like to hide, and the relative range they can look up and see me at. But still the issue remains that they can shoot from such far distances, it's ridiculously unfair. So much so that it's forcing people to do it like yourself because it's just so powerful.

Oh, contrare! Here is the thread you seek: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=92566&find=unread

It actually isn't that powerful compared to Chromosome...at least you get to know you're going to die before you die.
Instead of asking for tank nerfs, ask for dropship buffs. Nobody will be against this. You have my vote. It'd be fun to have to work as a team to take out a dropship.

yes well historically long range artillery is usually a pain in the butt, countered only by finding their position... which would be the job of well... aircraft usually.... with the extended map for aerial units, a dropship is actually the one unit capable of destroying rail snipers with any frequency.

no this just makes it way safer to redline an entire team, "oh noes we lost all our objectives, why cant i shoot back? CCP BRING BACK REDLINE SHOOTING QQ"

redline artillery is a very viable way to play this game, do you expect a bank of howitzers to sit where you can come and shoot them because it is fair?

Guys this is adapt or die. This is war.

Yeah, I absolutely expect that if there is an enemy on the field, I should be able to engage them in battle. There is no "redline" in real life. Sure the howitzers may be way back in the back of the engagement, but if they can shoot at me, there should be some way in which I can get to them and return fire.

Except it's completely unreasonable to have anti-air tanks when you already have tanks that are completely capable of being "anti-air" with their redline railgun sniping, so why you would even want an "anti-air" tank is stupid, because you already have the best all around anti-vehicle, anti-air, anti-infantry vehicle in the entire game. Well, apart from their also game-breaking "Murder taxi" that makes this game mario-cart 514 for many infantry players getting ran over and unable to do anything about it. Also, Soldiersaint, link me to a well-supported thread where there is a mass conscientious for "anti-air" tanks, because there isn't one.

LOL the only "air" currently is dropships and for the next 2 years the only air will be dropships.

So really what he asked for, and when CCP granted people is an "Anti dropship tank". Which is -absolutely- outrageous

Also, Soldiersaint, link me to a well-supported thread where there is a mass conscientious for "anti-air" tanks, because there isn't one.

There is one, under [Veteran_Xocoyol Zaraoul] somewhere in early closed beta, back when it was a neat concept and dropships were not made of glass. Can't think of any recent ones though... For obvious reasons.

The most concerning, game-breaking component of Dust as far as Dropships are concerned are Railgun tank red-line snipers. It's a mouthfull, but that use of the tank makes it so over powered its ridiculous. Don't get me wrong, redline snipers have always been present in the world of Dust, however the recent addition of range-to-damage drop off with handheld weapons (such as the forge gun) has created a larger incentive to take a railgun tank behind the redline and snipe with it instead of use the formally overpowered forge-gun. There are moments i have been literally about 1,500 feet in the air and out of no where all i hear is a little "tick" noise and more than half of my ADS's shield is down (mind you i have a 31% shield resist) and there is absolutely no way to tell where the shot came from. When i lower the ds down to investigate where exactly the shot came from, i get hit yet again because the tank is constantly able to watch me behind the red-lined area of their side. And even when i do actually locate them, it's absolutely impossible for me to even get 1 shot on them because of the extremely short range of the small missle launchers on my DS (even though they are XT prototype launchers), and also because they are so far behind the redline even while flying a dropship very fast to him, There's not even enough time to get close enough to take 1 shot, which wouldn't even do anything to them because tanks are able to have such high shields and armor, so the tank is able to sit there and take out as many vehicles as he/she wants while no one can do anything about it, even if they do know exactly where they are. It's the most pathetic, useless, and disgusting tactic i have ever witnessed in all of my time playing Dust, and i hope it's abolished quickly.

Words, way to many.

I agree. Instead, the redline should basically be a big shield system that incinerates all incoming and outgoing ballistics. You can't fire into it, you can't fire out of it.




Yeah, I absolutely expect that if there is an enemy on the field, I should be able to engage them in battle. There is no "redline" in real life. Sure the howitzers may be way back in the back of the engagement, but if they can shoot at me, there should be some way in which I can get to them and return fire.

The redline represents "the front". The front is that point where you just can't push any further because the enemy is sitting en masse.

You can't have hundreds of troops et al in this game without it lagging hence the virtual redline.

That redline is needed considering in a real war you wounldn't just have people leaping and bounding right on over to your side or tearassing around in LAV and surviving long enough to actually put the hurt on you.

If they made this game more realistic in the ease with which one could die and NOT come back to the game then maybe you could get rid of the virtual redline.

I like that there is a place on the very small maps to stage from. You have to have a safe staging area well behind enemy lines. Since we can't get well behind enemy lines this is a work around for it.

The problem with your argument is that you're comparing red-line sniper tanks (which are impossible to shoot) to Howitzers and artillery, which isn't what they are. They are tanks, suited with turrets that are designed to take out enemies at long range, but not to cheat by sitting behind their red line where absolutely NO ONE can reach them, and use their overly powered range to their advantage. If you want to sit behind the redline then fine, but the least that needs to be done is a reduction to the railgun range, because when i am being shot 1,500 meters in the air and 2000 meters across the map, there is something severely wrong here. Howitzers don't attack helicopters either, so seriously, get rid of your idea that "this is war" and they are "howitzers", because this is Dust 514, and the devs have proven they have a long way to go before they address all of the issues surrounding un-balanced and un-fair gameplay. The reason people have no room to QQ about bringing back redline shooting is because it's a feature that is easily considered abuse of the game. No one can reach those tanks, and the only reason they sit back there is because they know that their range is extremely over powered for the damage they are able to do at such a long range, it's an abusive tactic and there's no doubt in my mind that that kind of behavior is just taking advantage of a mis-coding in CCP's script.

What's new about this again?

The most broken part about it is they are basically immune to being killed, except for maybe a lucky orbital. Anything else, they just roll back behind their little mountain and recall.

CCP doesn't actually intend for Dropships to be used in normal games.

the more i think about tanks, the more i tend to think having long range turrets for them is a crappy idea.

Maybe you should post another fat block of text whine that has no basis in reality. -1
JLav is exactly correct in his position. Opinions are a dime a dozen but your argument in support of your opinion isn't worth the dime

I want bigger maps.. If the MCC spawn was an entire valley away from the nearest objective, nobody would hang out in the red line because they wouldn't be able to hit anything from it. Also, LAVs and dropships would actually be needed for their primary purpose: transport. Also, if the objectives were in entirely different valleys then this would give a DS pilot options. If it's too hot over at A, fly over to B which is entirely out of sight and out of range of A.

If this happened, I would support buffing tank health. As is, a tank out of the red line is likely going to die by my dropship (fully skilled out missile launchers / ADS skill + 2 proto damage mods), but a tank in the red line will just infuriate me. Opening the maps up so that red lines are no longer an issue would make tanks sitting ducks, so they'd need a larger buffer to run to cover or higher reps to be able to tank the damage (but not both, they would have to consciously choose between buffer and rep).

Weapon locks in the redline fixes redline snipers and rail tanks.

What i find even more humiliating to certain corps is that in literally every single PC i have participated in, factions like ILL OMENS, Synergy, and a few more i can't remember at this time have all used red-line sniper tanks during the PC matches. That's one thing i hate most about those "top corporations" the only reason many of them are at the top is because they understand the overpowered items and use them with 0 humility or understanding that it's completely unfair. And i know all they would say to that is "tough ****, we are the best because we don't consider right and wrong", but a corp that knows what's completely unfair and choses to say "i don't think we will participate in that" is really a corp that deserves to be on top.

Look at it this way:
The fact that corps abuse everything mercilessly means that looking at a corp vs corp game will show you the imbalanced aspects of the game.
Preventing "cheap" tactics is the responsibility of the game/developers, not the players.
The players shouldn't be responsible for making the game playable by artificially creating rules that might not even be clear cut or possible to enforce.

So, basically, I'm all for abusing the **** out of the entire game. A good game will get more interesting if you use all tactics - A bad game will get boring. Some of the best games got that way because people started abusing minor bugs, for example.
If no one ever abuses anything, the game will not get better. Because the issues won't become known.
That's why multiplayer games have rather short patch cycles.

I really hope CCP takes a look at high-level play. THAT is where the truth of balance comes to light, not in forums.


To be fair, low-level balance is different from high-level balance and the former might suffer from the latter. But that concern should be secondary, as higher high-level balance makes the game more enjoyable the more you play, while a focus on low-level balance makes the game more annoying the better you get.


Personally, I have trouble wrapping my head around dropship controls. I really wish there was some kind of offline test map for training.

read a lot of this lately and i have a simple fix:

Set weapons safety automatically to "on" while in the red zone. Done. have a nice day.


got red lined, not much you are going to be able to do any way since you in fact got your a$$ handed to you which put you in the red line