What is wrong with you Do you hate logis or something?

Its pretty well understood that logi suits with stacked HP have ridiculous combat survivability, damage, and utility. Most notably the proto caldari logi with heavy-suit level EHP, decent armor, and Duvolle AR. To address this issue of logis not logibroing and generally being better than assault at assaulting, I propose a change in the logi weapon slot. Logis would get a single sidearm slot and NO light weapon. OFC, everyone will just spec into proto SMGs to much the same effect, but I think it would fix much of what is wrong.

I figure someone's had this idea already. Thoughts?

I personally agree with you that logi having only a Sidearm would bring them more in line with a Support role.

However, many others have cried bloody murder every time it gets brought up.

They're intended for Support, not Assault, they should have only secondary combat viability.

This mentally that the Logi suit is just meant to stand there and rep people is the problem. If that was the case, CCP would have never created the Amarr suit. Logibro were clearly meant to be a utility unit, not a healing slave. I haven't seen a single reason yet to nerf the Logibro to Sidearms other than "Calogi is OP", which has nothing to do with the rest of the Logi suits.

Its pretty well understood that logi suits with stacked HP have ridiculous combat survivability, damage, and utility. Most notably the proto caldari logi with heavy-suit level EHP, decent armor, and Duvolle AR. To address this issue of logis not logibroing and generally being better than assault at assaulting, I propose a change in the logi weapon slot. Logis would get a single sidearm slot and NO light weapon. OFC, everyone will just spec into proto SMGs to much the same effect, but I think it would fix much of what is wrong.

I figure someone's had this idea already. Thoughts?

I have NEVER stated that the Logi is only meant to stand there and rep people. I wholeheartedly agree that that idea is utter garbage.

However, the belief that Logis need to be able to be some kind of "Rambo the Repper" is counter to the entire idea of the Logi IMHO. They need to be able to Support their squad/team though the strategic application of Equipment. I personally enjoy being more of a Ninja-Logi (no, I will not elaborate) than the Combat Medic there with my Heavy on a Reps Leash (I disagree with your healing slave statement, if anything the Heavy is the Logis DPS slave).

Either way, it isn't like Sidearms aren't intended to do the same thing as Light and Heavy Weapons (which is to say that they are all designed as murder tools). Focusing fire with squadmates/teammates is another method of Support. Sidearms are well more than sufficient for such a task.

Yeah, it's a bad idea.

The idea that somehow, Logi's should be nerfed because Assaults are mad is ludicrous.

Logis have guns. They should be able to use them.

Flux the damn caldaris if you can't out shoot them.

I swear, most of the people that post on these forums from an assault point of view have no sense of how to counter a tactic.

However, many others have cried bloody murder every time it gets brought up.

Proven right, didn't take long for people to start with the "ZOMG!!!! I COULDN'T DO ANYTHING WITH JUST A SIDEARM!!"

Personally, w/e, I am done arguing about it.

However, I will continue to hold my belief that Sidearm Only Logis are viable, just too many scrub logis that think they're Little Brother Assault.

You should be done arguing about it. It's not a good suggestion.

They aren't Little Brother Assault. They are viable as Assault. Working as intended. Please go cry elsewhere.

Its pretty well understood that logi suits with stacked HP have ridiculous combat survivability, damage, and utility. Most notably the proto caldari logi with heavy-suit level EHP, decent armor, and Duvolle AR. To address this issue of logis not logibroing and generally being better than assault at assaulting, I propose a change in the logi weapon slot. Logis would get a single sidearm slot and NO light weapon. OFC, everyone will just spec into proto SMGs to much the same effect, but I think it would fix much of what is wrong.

I figure someone's had this idea already. Thoughts?

The first two sentences of your post are pure opinion and you present them as fact.

Fact: I made a convert while I was gone.

They shouldn't be viable as Assault, they should be Support. I do not believe that is working as intended, otherwise why would CCP have given us both an Assault and a Logi? Both of them existing as roles within the same frame != mean that they should be wholly interchangeable. If you think that it does, then pass me some of what you're smoking cause you're either high or stupid (giving you the benefit of the doubt).

I'm not the one crying here. The guys who're stating definitively that they lose all Support viability are the ones crying here and look at you just bandwagoning on their sacks.

Your ignorance, is it bliss? In all combat, no matter if your a medic, engineer, truck driver, etc, your first and foremost job when you are in combat is to kill your enemy. In the military, no matter what job you do, you will be proficient with the assault rifle. Some jobs do require you to also to use other weapons, like pistols, but that is just an extra requirement on top of knowing the AR. Even a combat mission in the heat of battle is to kill everything he sees first, save lives second. He saves more lives by killing, than to become a causality himself just rushing in. You cannot argue to me that it makes even some scrap of sense, in real life or in game, as I have 15 years real experience in combat zones and probally 20 years of fps experience.

There is alot of negativity in this thread, but the point is valid. Why does a Logi need so many slots? Lets examine..


You could compare a Logi to a Scorpion Battleship in EVE. They have lots of high slots, lots of mid slots. They just have ALOT of slots for being an Ewar ship compared to the Raven, which has less slots.

The problem in this game is that the suits themselves don't mean as much. A Raven gets its DPS power from its ship's bonuses, while the scoprion gets Ewar bonuses and not DPS bonuses. Therefore the suits themselves are unbalanced, not the slot layouts per se.

I think it was smart of CCP for many reasons to stay away from putting +5% damage to XXXXX weapon class per XXXXX level on every suit.

You also forgot the scorpion only has 4 launcher hardpoints (and 4 turrets, lol) for its 6 total highslots.

There is alot of negativity in this thread, but the point is valid. Why does a Logi need so many slots? Lets examine..


You could compare a Logi to a Scorpion Battleship in EVE. They have lots of high slots, lots of mid slots. They just have ALOT of slots for being an Ewar ship compared to the Raven, which has 1 more slot then the scorpion, 19 compared to 18.

The problem in this game is that the suits themselves don't mean as much. A Raven gets its DPS power from its ship's bonuses, while the scoprion gets Ewar bonuses and not DPS bonuses. Therefore the suits themselves are unbalanced, not the slot layouts per se.

For example, i use the Amarr, only AK0 (only suit usefull to amar logi ) i bet everything of survive, No dmg mods or proto Weap for me, due to my low PG
i CHOOSE to do less dmg for have a slit less HP and follow my mate trough the Storm bullet, eating the same S H I T ASplayer are eating, just to be useful to my team and rep or ress them.
And i dont care my KDR, it's a worthless stat.
but for ress them, i need the enemy to die or to flee. HOW can i do that if they laugh at my SIDEARM slot with low range.

bullshit

Actually, I'm just flat out telling you that you're wrong. As is the OP.

In Eve, there are many ships with overlapping capabilities. The fact that the Logistics suits and Assault suits have some overlap, while maintaining distinctness, I think, Is exactly working as designed. This comes from my Eve experience.

Also, support does not mean can't kill. This pretty well kills all of the ideas from single spec Assault players who, for some reason, don't want Logis to be able to kill anything.

So, to be clear, what I'm saying is that you are wrong in your efforts to designate Logistic suits as "support" meaning can't kill. Dust, like Eve, is meant to be a sandbox. This means that CCP provides the framework, and we players build the details as we see fit.

The only reason CCP should nerf anything is if CCP thinks that diversity is being negatively impacted by a specific item that's OP/UP. In this case, this would mean that there are so many Logis on the field, that no one, or virtually no one, goes Assault. I, for one, don't see this while on the battlefield, therefore a call to nerf is unfounded. Take for example, the counter argument of a valid nerf, being the Tac AR, because anyone with the SP went to this weapon to the exclusion of all others.

Whatever though, I'm done debating with monkeys.

Fact: AR scrubs is as AR scrubs does.

LOL, troll

NerF the TaC , now this ? ........... BTW TaC is so broken never used it since it being nerfed
Cal Logis is not op , if Cal Logis is op , the heavy suit will be op , min logi will be op, etc ,
just leave the suit alone as it is, some of us work HARD grinding SP for Proto Cal Logis and you QQ want to mess it up,
Leave all logi suit as it is pls CCP ,
thanks

Now, this, this has to be a troll.

Its pretty well understood that logi suits with stacked HP have ridiculous combat survivability, damage, and utility. Most notably the proto caldari logi with heavy-suit level EHP, decent armor, and Duvolle AR. To address this issue of logis not logibroing and generally being better than assault at assaulting, I propose a change in the logi weapon slot. Logis would get a single sidearm slot and NO light weapon. OFC, everyone will just spec into proto SMGs to much the same effect, but I think it would fix much of what is wrong.

I figure someone's had this idea already. Thoughts?

I've been set straight: link

[

Sidearm Only Support =/= Can't kill

When did I ever say otherwise? I said that they shouldn't be Assault and that they shouldn't be wholly interchangeable with Assault (which apparently puts your panties in a bunch). I've been running nearly purely logi (I've got some specialized fits that are built of Assault and Scout suits) for the PAST THREE ******* BUILDS and using predominantly Sidearms for the PAST TWO ******* BUILDS. I have gotten kills in the past two builds too, so quit typing out of your ass and trying to convince people that the statement bolded above is Gospel Truth because it isn't.

Again, opinion.

Whatever though, I'm done debating with monkeys.

Fact: AR scrubs is as AR scrubs does.

NerF the TaC , now this ? ........... BTW TaC is so broken never used it since it being nerfed
just leave the suit alone as it is, some of us work HARD grinding SP for Proto Cal Logis and you QQ want to mess it up,
Leave all logi suit as it is pls CCP ,
thanks

I'm a BIG MOUTH all word no proof .

Ok, so tell me from your "Eve experience", aside from both being cruiser class ships, what overlap is there between a Scimitar and a Vagabond? I'll wait, please enlighten me.

Support. Logis are the equipment guy- not the guy who specializes in whatever he damn well pleases.

OP here

Thanks for your replies all, I don't mean to present myself as an expert on the topic by any means, and you've raised some good points that I hadn't considered. The light weapon -> sidearm nerf for all logis is probably a bit too extreme to address the issue. After all, if you're in a proto suit with a proto weapon, you should be a killing machine regardless of if its a logi. The specific concerns about caldari logi HP are probably best served with adjustments to the CPU, or if this is insufficient, removing a hislot, as well as a general look at logi/assault skill bonuses. I also don't think all suits across the same class should be completely homogenized (this is certainly not the case in Eve, and it isn't even the case in Dust right now).

@The Fuckwit formerly called Buster

I am a Logi, I have not stated that Logis should be nerfed.

I DO NOT VIEW A SIDEARM ONLY REQUIREMENT FOR THEM AS THE EARTHSHATTERING END OF LIFE FOR THEM THAT MANY OF YOU OBVIOUSLY DO.

Maybe if you had some reading comprehension, you'd understand this, but no, you simply parrot the **** someone tells you to and try to pass it off as "Eve Experience".

******* dumbshit monkeys.

OP here

Thanks for your replies all, I don't mean to present myself as an expert on the topic by any means, and you've raised some good points that I hadn't considered. The light weapon -> sidearm nerf for all logis is probably a bit too extreme to address the issue. After all, if you're in a proto suit with a proto weapon, you should be a killing machine regardless of if its a logi. The specific concerns about caldari logi HP are probably best served with adjustments to the CPU, or if this is insufficient, removing a hislot, as well as a general look at logi/assault skill bonuses. I also don't think all suits across the same class should be completely homogenized (this is certainly not the case in Eve, and it isn't even the case in Dust right now).

I'M A LITTLE PIMPLY BOY, LOOK AT ME !!!!! LOOK HOW BADASS I AM FOR TELLING BAD THINGZ ON THE INTERNETZZZZZ .

@The Fuckwit formerly called Buster

I am a Logi, I have not stated that Logis should be nerfed.

I DO NOT VIEW A SIDEARM ONLY REQUIREMENT FOR THEM AS THE EARTHSHATTERING END OF LIFE FOR THEM THAT MANY OF YOU OBVIOUSLY DO.

Maybe if you had some reading comprehension, you'd understand this, but no, you simply parrot the **** someone tells you to and try to pass it off as "Eve Experience".

******* dumbshit monkeys.

OP here

Thanks for your replies all, I don't mean to present myself as an expert on the topic by any means, and you've raised some good points that I hadn't considered. The light weapon -> sidearm nerf for all logis is probably a bit too extreme to address the issue. After all, if you're in a proto suit with a proto weapon, you should be a killing machine regardless of if its a logi. The specific concerns about caldari logi HP are probably best served with adjustments to the CPU, or if this is insufficient, removing a hislot, as well as a general look at logi/assault skill bonuses. I also don't think all suits across the same class should be completely homogenized (this is certainly not the case in Eve, and it isn't even the case in Dust right now).

What is wrong with you Do you hate logis or something?

The problem is not at the Logis (except the Caldari Logi), it-¦s at the WP you get from Equipment. You get too little WP for the risk you are exposed when you are reviving or repairing someone. When you get more WP for these actions more Logis will actually play as a Logi.

I think its the other way, so many people play logi in part because you get so many WP just from equipment. Points for uplink spawns, nanohive resupplies, and nanite revives are all fine (mayb +5/10 to nanites for adv/proto versions). Repair tool points maybe could use some "iteration" but its not a quick fix like removing the cap entirely or something.

Yeah, it's a bad idea.

The idea that somehow, Logis should be nerfed because Assaults are mad is ludicrous.

Logis have guns. They should be able to use them.

Flux the damn caldaris if you can't out shoot them.

I swear, most of the people that post on these forums from an assault point of view have no sense of how to counter a tactic.

Cal Logi is fine.

the other logi classes just also need EHP skill bonuses as well.

And the assault class needs a damage bonus.

Or, instead of nerfing things, we could just buff every other suit. That is a much better idea.