DUST Search - Logi offensive nerf proposal

Alaika Arbosa wrote:

Buster Friently wrote:

Alaika Arbosa wrote:

However, many others have cried bloody murder every time it gets brought up.

Proven right, didn't take long for people to start with the "ZOMG!!!! I COULDN'T DO ANYTHING WITH JUST A SIDEARM!!"

Personally, w/e, I am done arguing about it.

However, I will continue to hold my belief that Sidearm Only Logis are viable, just too many scrub logis that think they're Little Brother Assault.

You should be done arguing about it. It's not a good suggestion.

They aren't Little Brother Assault. They are viable as Assault. Working as intended. Please go cry elsewhere.

The first two sentences of your post are pure opinion and you present them as fact.

Fact: I made a convert while I was gone.

They shouldn't be viable as Assault, they should be Support. I do not believe that is working as intended, otherwise why would CCP have given us both an Assault and a Logi? Both of them existing as roles within the same frame != mean that they should be wholly interchangeable. If you think that it does, then pass me some of what you're smoking cause you're either high or stupid (giving you the benefit of the doubt).

I'm not the one crying here. The guys who're stating definitively that they lose all Support viability are the ones crying here and look at you just bandwagoning on their sacks.


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Buster Friently Rosen Association 767	Posted - 2013.06.28 01:38:00 - [1] - Quote Oso Peresoso wrote: Its pretty well understood that logi suits with stacked HP have ridiculous combat survivability, damage, and utility. Most notably the proto caldari logi with heavy-suit level EHP, decent armor, and Duvolle AR. To address this issue of logis not logibroing and generally being better than assault at assaulting, I propose a change in the logi weapon slot. Logis would get a single sidearm slot and NO light weapon. OFC, everyone will just spec into proto SMGs to much the same effect, but I think it would fix much of what is wrong. I figure someone's had this idea already. Thoughts? Yeah, it's a bad idea. The idea that somehow, Logi's should be nerfed because Assaults are mad is ludicrous. Logis have guns. They should be able to use them. Flux the damn caldaris if you can't out shoot them. I swear, most of the people that post on these forums from an assault point of view have no sense of how to counter a tactic.
Buster Friently Rosen Association 767	Posted - 2013.06.28 03:16:00 - [2] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: However, many others have cried bloody murder every time it gets brought up. Proven right, didn't take long for people to start with the "ZOMG!!!! I COULDN'T DO ANYTHING WITH JUST A SIDEARM!!" Personally, w/e, I am done arguing about it. However, I will continue to hold my belief that Sidearm Only Logis are viable, just too many scrub logis that think they're Little Brother Assault. They aren't Little Brother Assault. They are viable as Assault. Working as intended. Please go cry elsewhere.
Buster Friently Rosen Association 769	Posted - 2013.06.28 05:19:00 - [3] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: Buster Friently wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: However, many others have cried bloody murder every time it gets brought up. Proven right, didn't take long for people to start with the "ZOMG!!!! I COULDN'T DO ANYTHING WITH JUST A SIDEARM!!" Personally, w/e, I am done arguing about it. However, I will continue to hold my belief that Sidearm Only Logis are viable, just too many scrub logis that think they're Little Brother Assault. You should be done arguing about it. It's not a good suggestion. They aren't Little Brother Assault. They are viable as Assault. Working as intended. Please go cry elsewhere. The first two sentences of your post are pure opinion and you present them as fact. Fact: I made a convert while I was gone. They shouldn't be viable as Assault, they should be Support. I do not believe that is working as intended, otherwise why would CCP have given us both an Assault and a Logi? Both of them existing as roles within the same frame != mean that they should be wholly interchangeable. If you think that it does, then pass me some of what you're smoking cause you're either high or stupid (giving you the benefit of the doubt). I'm not the one crying here. The guys who're stating definitively that they lose all Support viability are the ones crying here and look at you just bandwagoning on their sacks. Actually, I'm just flat out telling you that you're wrong. As is the OP. In Eve, there are many ships with overlapping capabilities. The fact that the Logistics suits and Assault suits have some overlap, while maintaining distinctness, I think, Is exactly working as designed. This comes from my Eve experience. Also, support does not mean can't kill. This pretty well kills all of the ideas from single spec Assault players who, for some reason, don't want Logis to be able to kill anything. So, to be clear, what I'm saying is that you are wrong in your efforts to designate Logistic suits as "support" meaning can't kill. Dust, like Eve, is meant to be a sandbox. This means that CCP provides the framework, and we players build the details as we see fit. The only reason CCP should nerf anything is if CCP thinks that diversity is being negatively impacted by a specific item that's OP/UP. In this case, this would mean that there are so many Logis on the field, that no one, or virtually no one, goes Assault. I, for one, don't see this while on the battlefield, therefore a call to nerf is unfounded. Take for example, the counter argument of a valid nerf, being the Tac AR, because anyone with the SP went to this weapon to the exclusion of all others.
Buster Friently Rosen Association 781	Posted - 2013.06.29 02:25:00 - [4] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: Ok, so tell me from your "Eve experience", aside from both being cruiser class ships, what overlap is there between a Scimitar and a Vagabond? I'll wait, please enlighten me. So, this brings up several interesting points. First I'd like to point out, that had you chosen some ships like, oh, the Bellicose vs the Rupture vs the Scythe vs the Stabber, you'd see my point, but let's go with your examples. Now, I know, you picked these ships because the Vagabond has Assault in it's name and the Scimitar has Logistics in it's name. That's pretty much the end to where any comparison to Dust can be made though. First off, both of these ships are Tech 2 ships, which no equivalent exists in Dust. Take a look at the meta values if you like. let me point out the Scimitar's bonuses: Minmatar Cruiser Skill Bonus: 150% bonus to Tracking Link and Shield Transport range and 20% bonus to Shield Maintenance Bot transport amount per level Logistics Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to Tracking Link efficiency and 15% reduction in Shield Transport capacitor use per level Role Bonus: -50% CPU need for Shield Transporters Now, here are the bonuses for the Vagabond: Minmatar Cruiser Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret rate of fire and 5% bonus to max velocity per level Heavy Assault Ship Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret falloff range and 5% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret damage per level By comparing the bonuses, we can see that the Scimitar gets a lot of bonuses to tracking links and shield transport. Neither of these two effects exist in Dust. This would be the equivalent of a gun that when pointed at an ally, causes them to hit more often. Also, the second effect would be like having a gun that, when targeting allies, causes them to regenerate shields faster. From this, it is clear that the Scimitar has bonuses that produce a net force multiplier. We see that the heavy assault get's the standard sort of bonus to weapon damage. So, the roles in Eve seem clear, based on their bonuses. Now, if we look at the bonuses in Dust, we don't see that the Logi role differs much from the Assault, which is why there's a lot of overlap. Like, oh, all of the tech 1 ships in Eve. Now, why is it that you tards come on these threads and say "Wah, the Logi is too powerful, nerf it!!" When you should be saying, "Why can't the logi project shields on to assaults or heavies? Why can't the Logi also cause assaults or heavies' DPS to increase. And why can't logis do both simultaneously" That's what the Scimitar can do. Oh, BTW, it can also be made into a more durable shield tank than the Vagabond. (Just like the Caldari Logi) Now, when the day comes, that Logistics bonuses on dropsuits look like those on the Scimitar, and the Logi can do all of those things, well, then, I guess it's ok if the logi can only carry half the weapons of the Assault. Oh wait, it already only carries half the weapons. hmmm..
Buster Friently Rosen Association 782	Posted - 2013.06.29 02:50:00 - [5] - Quote Scheneighnay McBob wrote: Support. Logis are the equipment guy- not the guy who specializes in whatever he damn well pleases. You play your way, and I'll play mine
Buster Friently Rosen Association 783	Posted - 2013.06.29 04:52:00 - [6] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: @The Fuckwit formerly called Buster I am a Logi, I have not stated that Logis should be nerfed. I DO NOT VIEW A SIDEARM ONLY REQUIREMENT FOR THEM AS THE EARTHSHATTERING END OF LIFE FOR THEM THAT MANY OF YOU OBVIOUSLY DO. Maybe if you had some reading comprehension, you'd understand this, but no, you simply parrot the ** someone tells you to and try to pass it off as "Eve Experience". ***** dumbshit monkeys. Lol. Raging is the best you can do? And yes, reducing available weapons to only sidearms is a nerf. It's not my fault you can't even comprehend that a reduction in capability is a nerf. I never claimed it was earth shattering either, merely dumb, and wrong. Try reading through my Eve experience again. I think it's a pretty good rebuttal to your foolish attempt to craft some sort of point here. What was it again? Oh yeah, that Logis should be nerfed. I think we're clear on that. It's just that you're wrong about it.