but that's NOT taking into account the reliability of the tank drivers themselves, if im going against 2 av then I should be instantly killed according to you, but I KNOW how to drive tanks and I know how to deal with av therefore it should take at least a squad to take ME down. but it doesn't since I know how to drive and avoid being killed, I know tactics and use them therefore it should NOT be purely based on level of gear because the most idiotic tank driver will get the most powerful tank destroyed in an instant because he has no idea how to drive tanks while the most crapy fitted tank will survive most situations if the driver is an experienced driver that knows what hes doing. you see its not based on gear level alone, you HAVE to take into account the drivers personal skills.

I never said 2 AVers should instantly kill the HAV- I'm saying they should eventually kill it before it kills them.

And again- >>>AVERAGE<<< tankers, im a dumbshit. If you're good and have a good fit, you're fine. The fact is, most HAVs I destroy are bad fits with bad drivers.

eventually yeah they should kill havs that are on the same level of gear but it should take 2 alone to do it within 10 seconds, 2 avrs are the minimum of what should be required.

Who said within 10 seconds?

nobody did, but that's the average time it takes a solo AVer to kill of an HAV so it needs to be addressed also.

iv seen countless havs get taken down within 10 seconds from a solo aver, iv seen it since chromosome and its continued to now, the weapon I see used 9/10 times are av grenades.

The only time I've ever seen it are from the worst of the worst HAVs

As a tank driver, I am calling on ALL players that are AV specced and those that are Vehicle specced come together for once in a peaceful attempted to rationalize the balance situation between the 2 class types.

it is my hope that this thread will allow the 2 apposing class types to ley down their rivalries and come together to create an ideal system to fix the balance and create the best possible gameplay here, also an attempt to being together the 2 most hardened rivalries in dust 514 to a peaceful sense.

all through dust 514's history, AV and Vehicle players have constantly ripped and each others throats and demonized each other for speccing into the roles, this conflict has left a deep wound in dust's community and has created a giant gap between the player classes and as a result made the tank drivers the most hated group of vehicle players in the game.

I am calling for the 1st peaceful conversational thread for BOTH AV ANV VEHICLE PLAYERS ALIKE in order to finally bring the peace between the 2 and set an example for everyone that will ever play dust 514 that peace CAN be achieved for the GREATER GOOD OF THIS GAME.

AV players, I have respect for those of you that have specced into your roles be it swarms, forge, plasma cannon, flux grenade, av grenade, etc, etc, however its time for you to put an end to the constant fighting over "NERF VEHICLES AND BUFF AV WEAPONS" and the AV/Vehicle balance. so please, for once collaborate with the vehicle players in order to create the ideal balance.

Vehicle players, as one of you I understand our content with the AV players and balance issues, but WE MUST FORM TOGETHER WITH THE AVs and set aside our different points of view for the GOOD OF THE GAME. its time for us to se aside our differences as well and collaborate with the AV players to create the ideal balance both sides want in this game.


As a HAV driver I am calling for BOTH AV & VEHICLE players to join here and collaborate with each other to create the ideal balance that we ALL want in this game.

Set an example for future rivalries between the classes to see that we CAN rationalize and peacefully collaborate with each other's opposing views FOR THE GOOD OF THE GAME.

Btw void, why do you make a thread for discussion between AV and vehicle users if all you want is for HAVs to be godmode?

I thought about that recently today, at 1st I wanted to try and come to an understanding with your class type but seeing as how all you want to do if nerf tanks to uselessness, I pretty much just want this thread deleted. I tried but failed.

Have you ever run AV?

And you're an idiot if you think everyone agrees HAVs need a buff

I've spent plenty of times doing both AV and driving all 3 vehicle types.

Right now, HAVs seem to be the main issue people are arguing about. Drivers say that it should take several AVers to down one, while AVers also argue that 1 person should able to be beaten by 1 person.

I personally think that the driver's seat of the HAV needs to be separate from the main turret, and they should get a buff to eHP. That way, HAVs and AVers will both need teamwork.

This.
This.
This.
This.
This.
This, Would Solve ALL our Arguments.

Except the Windari Logi Suit Problem.
Change Them Bonuses!

First off a disclaimer, I have not read the entire thread so if I miss someones idea/suggestion which touches on this sorry and please link me the post so I can read up

In this build I have advanced Swarms, Advanced AV nades, Fluxes and a Militia Forge.
In prior builds I've spend SP into HAVs up to Proto (the chassis, never got everything on it proto'ed)
I've also flown a fair bit, tho I won't claim to have ever been all that great at it, I was always better at gunning than flying.

So that's my background, having provided the context I'll elaborate on where I find myself when it comes to AV in Uprising..

Most vehicles, even the dreaded and newly buffed "death taxi" are what I like to call pointatas.
The Logi LAVs can hold their own against my STD swarms but unless they're staying in motion anything else/anything better tends to pop them. I have also encountered fewer than 10 HAVs this build (outside of PC matches) which could stand up to the focused AV attention of 1-2 Mercs... unless we include those sniping from hills deep in the redline.
Note: The above assessment is not caused by encountering mostly militia HAVs, those are chewed up on average in less than 2 minutes by use of 1 STD swarm launcher sometimes requiring a resupply but frequently not.

For infantry that make use of the soft spots on vehicles the single greatest challenge is keeping the vehicle in range once it starts taking damage. Used on a soft spot 2-3 EXO AV nades will take out 80% or better of HAV fits deployed outside of PC battles. Which means one guy who gets close kills the HAV w/o support or reload.

There most certainly are fits that trump this and perform much better but they're not frequently seen.
The most common situation is that effective LAVs run people over, effective HAVs snipe, and effective DS do strafing runs and are limited to only certain maps. in this case "effective" does not mean employing the tactics most useful to the team it means "not going boom within 3-5 minutes of deployment".

I don't have any current suggestions to offer but that's my overall experience. Vehicles are rather papery, except the few that can soak up abuse from 3+ infantry and keep going generally unphased. <--- And that is without use of any type of Proto AV.

0.02 ISK
Cross

This is the way that makes most sense to me. I'm an AV guy but I want HAVs to be tough, to be a real presence on the field, it's just that having 1 person be the equivalent of 3 or 4 because he's in a tank presents problems. The most obvious solution as McBob says is to make a HAV require 3 operators to be at 100% effectiveness. Driver who controls movement and active modules, a primary gunner and a secondary gunner. Requires manpower and teamwork to take down, requires manpower and teamwork to operate.

while the turret guys are getting all the wp i think not

As it stands I see them pretty balanced. Good tankers with good core skills can take a whopping with my proto forge gun and survive leaving me very angry and chasing them down only to die for me to die repeatedly in the process. I've attacked tanks that have been av'd and even then they did not die. these people are true tankers. The ones that tell you "look I don't have good suits but I can use a tank". A bad driver will have a bad tank. Another misconception is core skills. People forget these because they want to use a higher level tank, so they die to the wrath of my forge gun in their expensive tank.

Another thing is tactics. I see a lot of tanker just sit there and take hit after hit without moving and guess what they die. But it was a bad pilot. Same thing for anti vehicle. You can't expect to kill a good tank with militia swarms or basic av grenades. If you want to do this, then train up for it. As it stands I have forge gun v and spec III. I kill noobs and scare pros after 5 direct hits, after which they leave' rep and come back till I,m out of ammo effectively taking more than one person to kill. The only thing I see to make the situation better is to accept that if you want to be a tanker you have to dish out the sp for it and if you want to be an anti vehicle guy you have to dish out the so for it.

Max everything out and the difference will show. Be it av or using tankss

A player with many proto AV weapons should be able to kill a standard tank (1 player in tank) with proto modules. Maybe 1 full proto player should not be able to kill a full proto tank though if the tank decides to retreat insantly (the tank itself being proto level). Just seems like certain tanks and vehicles are way too strong when certain mods are applied, because they can survive an ambush of a full proto squad (because they are able to retreat easily and not die if they choose to run instantly). That kind of power should be with proto level tanks.

I specced into proto AV grenades and have adv swarm launchers. What I have found is its impossible to solo a well built tank or dropship because they can get away from you way too fast and regenerate armor way too fast (high HP armor tanks and dropships). Even a squad of 6 with proto AV weapons cant kill a armor tank or armor dropship (with heavy armor repair mods) because the armor regeneration gives them enough HP to retreat out of range. To solve this a decreased armor regen rate for heavy armor repair modules would solve the problem.

I found remote explosives to be under performing against tanks with proto mods and LLAVs because they can both survive 3 RE's (even if detonated while REs are underneath the stationary tank or LLAV) if they have good defense modules and are set up well enough. Never tried proxy mines though.

Shield tanks seem to regenerate shields slower and but still seem to regenerate shields a bit too fast to allow 1 player with many proto AV weapons to kill them before they can retreat. Although a squad of 6 players with proto AV weapons can kill them.

You're telling me that 27000 DPS isn't enough to kill a tank?
A proto forge or swarm with damage mods or adv AV grenades inflict around 4500 damage; and you say six guys can't kill a tank with 5-6.7k HP? Even with 50% resistance to explosives on shield tanks (with hardeners of course), that'd kill anything. You're awful at what you should do. Let the good AV players talk to the good tankers.