Too bad about everyone talking proto this and that, because I think your point about the WP system seems to make some sense. Probably, some tweaks to the WP system could mean a fixGÇöor at least a step toward itGÇöfor the Academy transition and a good place to start fixing matchmaking in public games. Right?

...The point of the OP was that I finished #2 on the list died 5 times and walked away with a 400,000 loss.

If I'd been running advanced gear I would have broken even.

That's not a good system. There shouldn't be any argument there.

This post and title has been edited due to the inflammatory nature of the term PROTO.

The isk payouts have to reward performance over participation.

If a person is able to accumulate 2000 WP his ISK payout should be substantially more than someone who doesn't accumulate any WP.

My original post was born out of frustration of dying in a proto suit 5 times in a match, but it doesn't change the issue.

One of the posters below (ladwar) speaks of going 38-1 in a tank. He was #1 on the list and lost 100,000 isk.

Let me start off by saying if you think that's okay, please just post that you don't agree and let the grown ups talk.

Maybe people shouldn't worry about KDR so much.

Are you playing the same game as everyone else?

In some games your KDR is just a vanity number but in this game every D you rack up is a monetary loss and every absent K is less money your team is making.

This is the one kind of game where your KDR while not numerically important is still economically important.

Back on topic...

I'm discussing isk payouts. The OP was me pissed about losing 5 protosuits and having a net loss of 400,000 isk despite finishing #2 on the board of a battle that was intense and featured many people running proto suits.

The system needs to be changed. I'll agree that losing 5 protos suits should have cost me, but 400,000?? If I'd gone 0-5 and finished in the lower half I'd understand.

LOL, ok ? are you playing the same game as everyone else or reading the same thread?

ISK is based off your contribution to the match and the skill level of the opposing team along with the equip. they use.
I guess you are saying that ISK is only earned by KDR stats.

ISK is not based on the equipment the enemy team uses it's based on the equipment the enemy team loses.

i.e. if you're not killing the enemy team you're not building up ISK to be split up at the end.

If your team isn't killing anyone it doesn't matter if you build +2000wp hacking objectives and doing logi stuff you're going to get crap for a payout compared to what you would have gotten.

This is why the payout system is f'd up, it doesn't matter how well you preform the entirety of your reward is resting on the gear your opponent decides to throw at you and if you're running proto gear and you wipe out 50 militia gear people and die even once you stand a damn good chance of ending up in the red.

Sooooo if your opponent is running milita gear then you should run milita gear. Shouldn't be any need to use proto right?

Stop trying to be a smart ass, you're doing a **** poor job of it.

People that put enough time into the game to be able to afford/equip proto gear don't do it so they can look at how pretty it looks in the menu and play every game in militia gear.

If you're going up against a team that's +90% militia gear that doesn't mean you should be forced into playing in militia gear.

No one forces you. It's just stupidly inefficient not to use MLT or STD gear.

It's stupidly inefficient to play at all if you can AFK farm and get the current payout.

I think the payouts should be based right on WP's. After all you earn warpoints with both taking objectivs destroying buildings and killing players so if the system was balanced on how much kills and building destruction is worth than payouts based on war points would be very fair.
I would take out getting any payment based on time in the map. If your not contributing and have 0 WP you should get 0 reward. This would make afk camping pointless.
As far as gear goes honestly with better gear and more gameplay you should be able to contribute more to your team with more kills or hacks or something so better gear really should equate to better payouts when payout is based on WP.

For the post based on making proto gear affordable. It takes more than isk to get into proto gear and if you suck even if payouts are increased crappy players still wont be able to afford proto gear for long.

I think the payouts should be based right on WP's. After all you earn warpoints with both taking objectivs destroying buildings and killing players so if the system was balanced on how much kills and building destruction is worth than payouts based on war points would be very fair.
I would take out getting any payment based on time in the map. If your not contributing and have 0 WP you should get 0 reward. This would make afk camping pointless.
As far as gear goes honestly with better gear and more gameplay you should be able to contribute more to your team with more kills or hacks or something so better gear really should equate to better payouts when payout is based on WP.

For the post based on making proto gear affordable. It takes more than isk to get into proto gear and if you suck even if payouts are increased crappy players still wont be able to afford proto gear for long.

There are better ways to eliminate the AFK problem than radically altering the payout table to base it nearly entirely on WP. The problem is you're going to chase away all of the new players just out of the battle academy. You can detect if they ever leave the MCC, how much damage they do to other players (even if they don't get a kill or kill assist), how much time are they spending within X meters of an objective, how many times have they died? etc. These metrics will look very different for someone going AFK and a guy with crap gear just starting out getting stomped by guys wearing the most expensive suits in pub matches. People going AFK should get booted from the match and receive 0 ISK, people struggling to get started while getting pubstomped should still get a decent payout even if they have very low WPs.

The bar to get into Proto gear is actually very low when you see this game 10+ years out. If it ever gets to the point where more than the absolute badasses can make a profit wearing proto in the open matches then the game will be broken and need to be re-balanaced.

In 2 or 3 years if guys still aren't able to afford running around in proto gear then I doubt they'll be playing.

Could you imagine CoD or BF3 players only being able to run LVL 1 gear 90% of the time? It's silly, I don't know why you guys are so hung up on it.

If ISK payouts are based on performance then it'll make losing the proto gear less of an impact. I can drop into a match and supply proto uplinks and nanohives and get further than a dude running militia gear that kills 30 enemy. To me it's better to supply the battlefield and turn the tide of a battle with a well placed uplink than it is to kill 30 enemy wearing militia gear. In other words the game will be better for everyone. The higher tier gear is better and requires more SP for a reason, it's better.

To come up with some weird logic that better gear on the battlefield is bad for the game is possibly the dumbest thing I've heard all year.

Adding another voice to the "Fix Payouts" chorus.

Even as a new player I can see the payouts are jacked up.

You'll have to point out where I said I wanted the risk removed. Where I said that I wanted proto suits to mean automatic ISK windfall after each match.

Of course there is risk in losing money. I'm talking about being rewarded more for good performance. Whether it's in a militia suit or a super duper tech III ultra awesome suit.

The fact remains that you can generate more WP in a proto suit with proto equipment. I totally agree with everyone that it's not WORTH the risk right now because you aren't compensated enough to generate WP. The payout for 2500 WP is not incentive enough to strive past 800 WP. Or even 0 WP sitting in the MCC.

This is my point.

If we were rewarded more for WP you'd see more people playing the game as intended.

All of the things you're talking about are what Planetary Conquest is designed for. That's the place where you wear your best gear, because your corp will own planets that generate lots of ISK which will help fund the cost of your high-end suits. Instant battles are meant to be fought in cheaper gear, and accessible to people just out of the academy. Watch the Planetary Conquest Fanfest talk to help you understand it.

And everyone that isn't in a big corporation or didn't rush to grab districts and can't actively participate in the deeper Planetary Conquest bits is supposed to sit on their thumb and deal with running inferior fits or falling into the red after games no matter their performance?

Yes, because their playstile doesn't involve significant risk if they don't want it to. New Eden and all...

It's crazy to think they haven't come up with a better system. I'm in a proto suit with a maxed out weapon.

I'm going to play a different game and sign into Dust when we have a PC battle. Check that my MD is broken so it's only decent in pub matches against people running cheap suits to save up for PC battles.

This is a dilemma. I love this game and I want to see it succeed, but I can't sustain grinding 15-20 hours a week for SP. I certainly won't grind for that SP if its in a starter suit.

Change the payouts for the love of god.

So with a straight face. And actual thought put into your response you believe that 95% of the player base should never run expensive gear unless they happen upon a chance to participate in a PC battle?

That can't be. you can't really mean that.

No such thing as "an unfair fight"?

In a game where at any moment the finger of god can be called down to wipe out an entire squad without touching friendly targets?

Or where you have redline snipers/tanks taking potshots over hills at people that can't even attempt to counter them?

First: Dust is supposed to be an MMOFPS grinding game and CCP wanted it to have a steep learning curve.
If you don't want to farm SP you can play any other FPS game and have fun.

Second and Last: Now that DUST is part of New Eden some rules/behaviours from EVE ONLINE have been applied to this game (Awoxing etc)

I will list some of them below.Replace words like "Fly" or "Ship" to dropsuits/fitiings(You get the point)

• Never fly something (or with something in the cargo) you can't afford to lose. Yes, not even in highsec.


• Scamming and unethical behaviour some would consider griefing is not only allowed, it is encouraged and rewarded by the game mechanics.


• If you lose stuff, it's almost always your fault. Really, only yours.


• There is no such thing as "a fair fight" or "an unfair fight". There's only "a fight". Circumstances are irrelevant.


• Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.


• Just because you can fly something doesn't mean you should.