DUST Search - AFK Farming is the only way to sustain

All Channels

Feedback/Requests

AFK Farming is the only way to sustain

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Vell0cet Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 4	Posted - 2013.06.02 00:46:00 - [1] - Quote Bubba Brown wrote: for god's sake THIS IS CALLED ISK EFFICIENCY IT'S CALLED NOT PLAYING BEYOND WHAT YOU CAN AFFORD THERE IS SUCH A THING AS "TOO GOOD A SUIT", WHICH YOU SAVE FOR SPECIAL OCCASIONS welcome to eve, harden the ** up, adapt or die, ect. AND JUST DROP THE PROTO GUN OR THE PROTO SUIT BUT KEEP THE MODULES, that'll easily half your suit cost Quoted for truth. I think the OP has confused this game with Halo. Losses are supposed to HURT** in New Eden. You're not supposed to run around in the shiniest suits all the time in pub matches. It should never be affordable to wear maxed out gear in public matches and die more than once or twice, otherwise there's no point in having different tiers of gear and isk becomes meaningless. Take EVE for example. Many people can fly expensive T3 ships, but will fly cheaper ones for less important ops. You should be nervous about loosing that proto suit, it should cause you pain, if it doesn't then the game has lost it's balance. This is what makes DUST unique and interesting, without painful losses it's just a sub-par shooter.
Vell0cet Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 4	Posted - 2013.06.02 10:12:00 - [2] - Quote Mike Poole wrote: I think You've confused this game with EVE, which seems to be a mistake people make pretty often around here. I haven't played EVE that much but I'd have to wager you don't go through half a dozen ships over the course of 15-30 minutes right? If people wanted to play EVE they would go play EVE. People here seem like they would like to play an fps and actually enjoy it rather than spend the majority of the time swearing because 2 seconds of gunfire a precision strike and a runaway truck just left them in the red and falling back on starter suits so they stop hemorrhaging money. It's not the same game, but it's cut from the same cloth. The thing that makes this shooter interesting is that when you kill someone, there's a guy on the other end who just lost a ****-load of time grinding up the ISK for that proto suit. It makes you play differently when you're worried about the financial losses instead of just running into a group of enemies, killing a couple and then dying yourself without fear because you'll get a free re-spawn. The risk-reward mechanism makes gameplay more realistic (suicide taxis aside) because you FEAR DEATH because it's a REAL LOSS TO YOU when wearing expensive suits. That's the pearl in this oyster, that's what makes this game interesting. In EVE you can loose months worth of effort in an instant. New Eden is full of stories of people with all of their worldly possessions packed away in a transport ship getting suicide ganked by a gang in Hi-Sec. That's how it's supposed to work, that's what makes people get a little tingle in their balls when they hit the undock button in that expensive ship, that's what makes EVE more interesting than any other MMO out there. So while it's not likely to loose that many ships so quickly in EVE, you can easily burn through an equivalent amount of ISK in a similar timeframe, and if you expect to take heavy losses, you're probably using cheap fits (that's how pirates play for example).
Vell0cet Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 4	Posted - 2013.06.03 18:42:00 - [3] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: ...The point of the OP was that I finished #2 on the list died 5 times and walked away with a 400,000 loss. If I'd been running advanced gear I would have broken even. That's not a good system. There shouldn't be any argument there. But there is a major argument there. If Proto is sustainable for everyone all the time, it isn't special, it's standard, and everything else becomes crap. It's supposed to be tiered for a reason. You're supposed to have to weigh the risk of loosing a very expensive suit and taking a loss against the significant advantage it will provide you over others. Sometimes it's worth it, but usually it's best to save your Proto gear for special circumstances (e.g. some guy shoots down your expensive dropship with his proto forge gun so you throw on your proto gear and try to cause him as much pain as possible and don't mind taking the ISK loss to make it happen). AFKing is a completely separate issue. It needs to be addressed, but if ISK comes too easily it's just going to make proto gear way too accessible, which will make it pointless. Also consider people just starting the game, if low warpoints means very low rewards, then they're never going to be able to catch up through hard work and improvement and they'll just quit the game because it'll be pretty hopeless.
Vell0cet Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 4	Posted - 2013.06.04 13:56:00 - [4] - Quote Thurak1 wrote: I think the payouts should be based right on WP's. After all you earn warpoints with both taking objectivs destroying buildings and killing players so if the system was balanced on how much kills and building destruction is worth than payouts based on war points would be very fair. I would take out getting any payment based on time in the map. If your not contributing and have 0 WP you should get 0 reward. This would make afk camping pointless. As far as gear goes honestly with better gear and more gameplay you should be able to contribute more to your team with more kills or hacks or something so better gear really should equate to better payouts when payout is based on WP. For the post based on making proto gear affordable. It takes more than isk to get into proto gear and if you suck even if payouts are increased crappy players still wont be able to afford proto gear for long. There are better ways to eliminate the AFK problem than radically altering the payout table to base it nearly entirely on WP. The problem is you're going to chase away all of the new players just out of the battle academy. You can detect if they ever leave the MCC, how much damage they do to other players (even if they don't get a kill or kill assist), how much time are they spending within X meters of an objective, how many times have they died? etc. These metrics will look very different for someone going AFK and a guy with crap gear just starting out getting stomped by guys wearing the most expensive suits in pub matches. People going AFK should get booted from the match and receive 0 ISK, people struggling to get started while getting pubstomped should still get a decent payout even if they have very low WPs. The bar to get into Proto gear is actually very low when you see this game 10+ years out. If it ever gets to the point where more than the absolute badasses can make a profit wearing proto in the open matches then the game will be broken and need to be re-balanaced.
Vell0cet Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 4	Posted - 2013.06.04 16:51:00 - [5] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: In 2 or 3 years if guys still aren't able to afford running around in proto gear then I doubt they'll be playing. If everyone is running around in proto gear 100% of the time in 2 or 3 years the game will be broken. Quote: Could you imagine CoD or BF3 players only being able to run LVL 1 gear 90% of the time? It's silly, I don't know why you guys are so hung up on it. Because this isn't CoD or BF3. It's NOT SUPPOSED TO BE! Your mental model of how it's supposed to work is broken. You seem to think it's based on when you have the skills to use gear you should be able to use it constantly. It's intentionally designed not to work that way. Instead it's expected for nearly all players to run around in isk-efficient setups MOST OF THE TIME--YES EVEN IF THEY CAN FIT OUT VERY EXPENSIVE FITS, and when they're willing to trade the risk of an ISK-loss, they can essentially convert that ISK into the ability to dominate on the battlefield until they die. It's a risk-reward mechanism that will keep this game interesting for a long time, it's about balance. The proto gear will get pulled out for Planetary Conquest mode and other similar high-stakes situations. It also gets pulled out if you have a huge wad of cash from running all of those cheaper fits and feel like being a badass for a while and don't mind burning through some ISK to make it happen. Quote: If ISK payouts are based on performance then it'll make losing the proto gear less of an impact. I can drop into a match and supply proto uplinks and nanohives and get further than a dude running militia gear that kills 30 enemy. To me it's better to supply the battlefield and turn the tide of a battle with a well placed uplink than it is to kill 30 enemy wearing militia gear. In other words the game will be better for everyone. The higher tier gear is better and requires more SP for a reason, it's better. To come up with some weird logic that better gear on the battlefield is bad for the game is possibly the dumbest thing I've heard all year. It's only better for everyone if some people have the better gear and others don't. If players can afford to run around in proto all of the time, then they're not "turning the tide of battle" they're just like everyone else in proto. That's the point, the whole thing gets watered down just like in MMO's with the gear treadmill. It keeps it MORE INTERESTING by having the risk/reward mechanism. Take a look at how things work in EVE, because that's the model behind DUST514--yes they're different games, but this mechanism is what's kept EVE balanced and fun for over 10 years without everyone running around in 1 Billion ISK ships 24/7. It works well, and it's fun to take out someone's expensive ship. The CoD BF3 model will get boring fast.
Vell0cet Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 4	Posted - 2013.06.04 18:44:00 - [6] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: You'll have to point out where I said I wanted the risk removed. Where I said that I wanted proto suits to mean automatic ISK windfall after each match. You want to be able to wear proto 24/7 in pub matches and not loose money doing it. That's minimizing the risk to a stupidly low level. ISK becomes meaningless in DUST in that scenario. Quote: Of course there is risk in losing money. I'm talking about being rewarded more for good performance. Whether it's in a militia suit or a super duper tech III ultra awesome suit. You already get more ISK for doing better, you just want to get A LOT more isk for doing better, and A LOT less ISK for people who suck (i.e. the new people). So riddle me this: why in the ** would someone want to keep grinding away getting ridiculously low payouts in crap newbie gear and getting killed dozens of times, over and over again while you mow them down in your expensive fits without any hope of improvement in their future? YOU'RE NOT GOING TO HAVE ANYONE TO FIGHT, BECAUSE THEY'LL QUIT. That's what Google told me when I looked up "how the world works." And guess what? When people quit, DUST 514 will go under, BECAUSE YOU NEED PLAYERS TO FUND THE GAME. That also came up when I Googled "how the world works." You should read up a little more about incentives yourself. Quote: The fact remains that you can generate more WP in a proto suit with proto equipment. I totally agree with everyone that it's not WORTH the risk right now because you aren't compensated enough to generate WP. The payout for 2500 WP is not incentive enough to strive past 800 WP. Or even 0 WP sitting in the MCC. This is my point. This is BY DESIGN, INTENTIONAL, HOW IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE, "THE WAY THE WORLD WORKS IN NEW EDEN"--look those up so you can wrap you head around it. AFK is a separate issue and can be dealt with independently of ruining the payout mechanism balance. Quote:** If we were rewarded more for WP you'd see more people playing the game as intended. The game is working as intended. You're NOT SUPPOSED TO RUN EXPENSIVE GEAR 24/7. It's meant for special occasions. All of the things you're talking about are what Planetary Conquest is designed for. That's the place where you wear your best gear, because your corp will own planets that generate lots of ISK which will help fund the cost of your high-end suits. Instant battles are meant to be fought in cheaper gear, and accessible to people just out of the academy. Watch the Planetary Conquest Fanfest talk to help you understand it.
Vell0cet Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 4	Posted - 2013.06.05 00:16:00 - [7] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: Jesus Christ, nobody wants more for using proto. We want more for performance over time in battle. ...So that you can use proto in instant battles. You still haven't explained why a player fresh out of the academy wouldn't just delete the game when they can only earn a couple hundred WP at best while getting stomped over and over again. Your proposal would literally break the game mechanic that makes DUST 514 fun, interesting, and different from every other game out there (except for EVE). Go do some PC, and if your corp doesn't have the numbers, then recruit some more people. The system is balanced right now, if anything Proto is too CHEAP.
Vell0cet Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 5	Posted - 2013.06.06 11:03:00 - [8] - Quote Thurak1 wrote: The largest problem with this sentimate is assuming proto would still be the best. If this game follows a track like eve did in 10 years there will be dropsuits that never existed before. It is irrational to plan 10 years down the road in a game like this at least then it comes to the payout system. I mean otherwise why not reward players with like 100 isk flat for winning and loosers 20isk because otherwise in 10 years players will be millionairs. If you look at EVE, the payouts never changed despite adding ever-more expensive ships. You still get the same bounty for killing rats or running missions and new ships are orders of magnitude more expensive. Battleships have been around since the beginning and they have always been pricy, but attainable just like the Proto suits. Most players don't treat battleships as throw-away ships that they care to loose without something important on the line (unless they're rolling in ISK). Notice how this is still true 10 years later despite all of the bigger, shinier and more expensive ships out there? It's an indication that the balance works very well and will have excellent longevity. This has prevented the gear treadmill phenomena that most MMO's suffer from. I expect the Tech2 dropsuits to be outrageously expensive (relative to proto) to the point you very seldom see them in a pub match unless someone's just having fun and doesn't mind the ISK loss.

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online/DUST514, the EVE/DUST514 logo, EVE/DUST514 and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to OMG Labs to use EVE Online/DUST514 and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, OMG Labs. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.